Don't Miss These Game Changing Rules | Warhammer the Old World | Square Based Show
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
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Rob and Val are BACK this time talking some news and rumours (17:23). They name and shame some of their favorite content creators right now (38:34). For the meat and girth of the episode Val takes Rob through his massive deck of rules that maybe people aren't talking about enough with regards to Warhammer the Old World. (42:43).
0:00 Introduction
43:50 Kill Points are King
01:00:00 You're Probably doing Combat Resolution Wrong
01:09:00 Mitigating Fall Back in Good Order FBIGO
01:18:00 Things to Remember for Combat
01:22:00 Terror is Always Good
01:28:00 You Can't Kill What You Can't See (Line of Sight)
01:36:30 Template Weapons Probably Suck Now
01:42:00 Charging Stuff
Links to the podcast only version on all platforms:
squarebasedpodcast.podbean.com/
#warhammer #warhammertheoldworld #warhammerfantasy #warhammercommunity #squarebassed #theoldworld #warhammerpodcast #thehonestwargamer - Hry
Bretonnian Lord Doofus isn't exactly a testament to Martin Footitt's sculpting abilities. His resume also includes masterpieces such as plastic Nagash, new Black Coach, 7th edition metal High Elf characters, 5th edition Eldar Farseers, Warcry Centaurion Marshall, plastic Inquisitorial retinue and several Sisters of Battle miniatures. He is one of most talented sculptors at GW and best thing to happen to Elves since Jes Goodwin 🙂
GOOD LAWD SEE NOW THAT'S WHAT I WAS WORRIED ABOUT.
Must be so cool for him to see it finally released as well!!
Wow, there's some absolute *bangers* on that list!
Would have been cool if GW had listed that resume rather than just mention some apparently secretive "Martin" character..
Oh wow Martin Footitt!? That’s a game changer
That's awesome!
I like this Bretonnia lord. Sure, he looks like a Neanderthal a bit, but we don't like things because they're perfect, we like them despite their imperfections, because of them. Highly detailed minis leave less room for your own imagination.
Honestly it's just his eyes. I'm planning on painting them as in shade with a wash and it'll be fine.
I’m gonna disagree with your highly philosophical assessment.
I respect your opinion, but at the prices they charge… I want perfection from Games Workshop.
Sure. People like different things.@@jlozano2615
I literally cleaned my hobby space yesterday. Got a brand new Iwata airbrush and compressor which is much quieter than my old one. Organized my paints. Spent money on good new brushes. Started spraying my newly stripped Dwarfs (just a few units I want to redo), and I got my painters tape ready for my new bretonnian models army all ready. Currently printing Knights of the Realm on foot while I wait for GW’s. Then im going to dig into the skeletons and paint a new army. I have a much simpler zenethal/speedpaint/airbrush recipe for tomb kings, so I can do 80 skeletons in a day fairly easily, them deal with chariots, characters, and Ushabti.
But Sunday is game day! We’re playing all day! 4 of us here in my basement gaming room. Two hand flocked tables full of painted mini’s, and a brand new edition of Fantasy
have the absolute best time
I think he looks sick, don’t play Brets but if I did I’d definitely get one. I like the more goofy sculpts from GW, feels nostalgic and honestly, so much easier to paint lol 😂
9th Age got a lot of hate, but they were just bros trying to keep the flame alive. They did great work
💯P
Rob: Empire is coming out tomorrow!
Me: Yeah Baybee!
Rob 3 seconds later: They are the most dull.
Me: YOUR DULL!
Just kidding, loved the show as always :)
Its just they havent as of yet added flavour like marks or arrows or primal stuff. I think its the army you can do most with
@SquareBasedOldWorld But ain't it all about the Empire being the baseline? Not everyone loves the funky stuff.
@@SquareBasedOldWorld Tbh agree! Empire are a Faction which don't have a gimmick or a theme, they are but Men. But they armies can be skewed to make them more interesting and give them more flavour e.g. leaning into Sigmar Fanatics with Priests and Flagellants or going full rable with Free Company and Archers.
We have to support the channel so Rob can get some new flannels.
JESUS YOU NOTICED
The Bretonnian lord is definitely a little bit derpy, I like him though. It is cool to see that they got to dig into old stuff, find some things and go through the metal mold creating process to release a new one, as well as describe some the process of how those metal miniatures are done. From the studio side, that had to have been fun for them to do. Which I think is a good thing, that they had some fun in the process of making the game, which I think is the real point they were going for.
Enjoying the game is what we are looking forward to too
As usual, you both are absolute gems. Love love love this content, and it's really been boosting the hype!
Couple things that were said that I wanted to clarify -
1) Fall Back In Good Order at one point was said to be "roll 2d6 and choose highest die, adding your movmement." It's just the roll 2d6 and choose the highest. Your movement stat doesn't come into it at all.
2) In the cannons part, I think cannons only stop when they hit "monstrous creatures or behemoths", right? So monsteous infantry/cav/other multiwound models don't stop a cannon shot, I think. Worth checking the cannon bounce section again!
Appreciate the amazing comment will check it all out
Can I just say that Val talking about his messy room, Rob showing heart and care for struggling people and Val following up with approval and a dumb joke is podcast gold!
Only 20 seconds in and Val is already Giving it his all! Thanks for the show and please stay amazing
hes great
Congrats on the growth guys, thank you, this show brings me so much joy each week
I like The Lion and his Tiny Johnson, as old school nostalgia throw backs to a time that was.
I really like that kinda "crap" charm from sculpting back in those days, so its cool to have access to this stuff from a preservation and nostalgia point of view.
If GW think I'm paying £25+ for them tho, they can kindly get fucked. lol
Traditionally, tabletop miniatures were sculpted to be viewed at a couple of feet away, not exploded in size as if looking at them through a magnifying glass. So it is completely unfair and exaggerates the hands and face in a way that is not meant to showcase that miniature in the way it has been published.. Basically, publishing that picture and presenting it in a large view is terribly unfair. I think a lot of the very detailed and excessively detailed miniatures designed in CAD, while photogenic are kind of crap at the table top view.
Several interesting points here, although most of us Fantasy veterans were familiar with them in some way, shape or form. Some more specific ideas:
- To mitigate FBIGO, cheap cavalry hammers will be invaluable. Something like knights errant or marauder horsemen with flails, at sub-20 points per miniature, can easily bring 20 unit strength to the table, and if supported by a smaller, killier anvil (or, technically, if that cavalry supports that anvil, be it a chaos lord on dragon, unit of grail knights or whatnot), they stand a very good chance of simply killing enough on the charge that the opponent is denied the chance to FBIGO, while taking very little damage in the process.
- On the matter of line of sight, Frenzied and Impetuous troops will need screens very badly. This is not new for anybody who played Khorne or Witch Elves in 6th and 7th, but it's going to trip up newer players, so learning to screen will be a very valuable tactic.
- On the matter of templates, I think they overnerfed them, and now stone throwers and other template weapons look very unappealing. As I often find it with TOW, going back to the template of 6th edition (pun intended, somewhat) where templates cause partials is something that I don't much like. It slows down gameplay, it leads to the occasional "I think this is fully covered" "no, there's 1mm of the base outside of it", and nerfs these weapons even further. Not a fan of partials at all.
- Finally, on the charging considerations... I'm again not a fan of wheeling during the charge costing movement, and I think that the abstraction of 8th was a lot cleaner (even if it could be abused sometimes). It's a small deterrent for super wide units, but I don't think it's going to matter in that regard, and having properly aligned units is something I find preferrable to awkward unit placement (especially if that gamey approach leads to "now your dudes can't perform their full attacks because I'm blocking their alignment with my other dudes"). So like I said, not a huge fan, but we'll see how it plays out in practice; it may not matter much.
Love your show guys! And beyond pumped for Old World. Keep up the fantastic work.
Loving this wholesome brocast. Thank you gentlemen, for adding to the excitement I feel for returning to old world and filling the dark void until we get books in our hands. Stay excellent, stay chilled.
I think the new old model is cool. Hope they release other models like this.
I watched Rob’s Beastmen review twice because it was so nice! I even paused a bunch to make notes. His typed slides really help me personally. I have an old GW cockatoo e that I originally had to ally with my dwarf army in 5th edition, so I am excited to see its return, and it has decent, fluffy rules.
I can’t believe the dwellers below are back. I used to listen to them all the time during 8th Ed!
That's rad rigjt
Val's take on Dr. Blaxill fucking SENT me, I had the exact same thought the first time I watched one of his videos! His podcast with The Bard is amazing though.
Haven't gotten far enough in the video yet but it doesn't look like it gets mentioned so I wanted to add a handy rules reference because I think this is going to be misunderstood and come up a lot early on. Page 150 the paragraph titled Excess Wounds states both that models "Stepping up" into the second rank still get to make Supporting Attacks if they can, it also states that you still lose those Supporting Attacks if you lose more wounds than you have models in the Fighting Rank and need to pull from the second rank. Basically, you don't "Step up" until after combat is the easiest way to think of it.
Yes certainly, i think we got that but appreciate the reference
Lord Blaxill notes that it is just as well for him that the Canadians achieved Dominian status 157 years ago. Had they not, an imperial patent order would have been secured against subject Hefflefinger for the theft of his sunglasses. Hefflefinger would have then transported to face judgement in the highest court in the Empire- the House of Lords.
It's an escalation. Your mirrored aviators don't stand a chance against my blue tint lenses!
I remember seeing that "green" of the Bretonnian lord as a kid in either a magazine or photo and I got excited thinking it meant a Bretonnian update. Then the model seemingly disappeared and there was no trace of it on the internet. Pretty cool its returned 16 years later, even if its a bit goofy 😅
The Bret Lord release, like it or not (I like it!), is exciting because it means other ‘lost’ minis of yesteryear might get released!! Really cool!!
Also - I think the stark facial figures etc would suit a more ‘middlehammer’ painting style. Wait and see what the community can do with it once it’s released, I think we will see people make it absolutely soar.
I would add to the Combat To-do List: where would the enemy FBIGO to?
They pivot to move their centre away from the centre of your highest US unit. Then they go directly forward, avoiding only impassable terrain.
If they hit a board edge they die. If they get within 1" of enemy units they "pop through" and many of their models lose a wound on a 4+. If they overlap with a friend they "pop through" and cause panic.
If you have fast chaff left when the important combats are going on you can slide it behind the opponent's anticipated path of FBIGO and deal damage that way. Particularly good for this: flyers and skirmishers.
You can also trigger the "flee through enemy" Peril Test by engaging on multiple sides... the enemy is bound to clip a unit during the FBIGO.
On the flip side, if the positioning is poor your opponent's FBIGO might see them safely "pop through" a friend, get a free reform, and see your attacking unit unable to re-engage. The FBIGO unit can then declare a charge potentially anywhere around them (they just got a reform).
Love the content. Have been into warhammer for 26 years and had so so many dwarfs... lost most of them when the game was killed and am excited that it is back. Painting up some hammerers while listening to your casts. Thanks so much for the content and manner in which you produce it. Keep up the good work. Maybe some day my Dawi can grace your gaming table/presence. :) Peace.
Glad to see you getting constructively hammered during our show.
I love the show, guys. I never miss an episode. I never played WFB, but now I am building a Wood Elf army for TOW.
Some great takes and information here. There is plenty of Bat reps and army "reviews" thats basically read from pages i can read myself from, omit a lot of rules ( or straight up misinterpret them) and does not touch on interactions between these rules. This has been so far one of the best channel for information about ToW mechanics and gameflow. Good job gents!
One thing i would point out about chaff units - there is alot of caviot to charging, Overrun, Accidental Contact, Redirect - all of these will afftect what a chaff unit needs to be. So i dont think chaffs can be really small, since then enemy can wipe them and overrun to whatever its protecting. If it wont destroy chaff well theres still option that chaff will Flee, again small chaff will have small unit strenght - and if they flee through friendly units they will trigger panic tests. But bigger chaffs, is bigger cost, suddenly they not that cheap to loose anymore
One idea i have for chaff is a skirmish unit arranged so that it block LoS, and once they are target of charge they should Flee ( or Fire and Flee WE player here )- becouse fleeing Skirmishers dont trigger panic tests in Open/Close order units if they flee through them, we now removed our chaff out of the way, without risking of overrun and panic test spread, and our big numbers unit is ready for counter charge. But again, your positioning will have to be good, because theres a risk of Redirect.
great stuff.
FML I CAN'T WAIT TO PLAY THIS GAME - Val
Keep up the great work guys!
Why dont you keep being awesome
Loved the podcast shoutouts I dove into That Old World Charm this wknd!
Excited for you and others to work out all the intricacies of this really interesting ruleset. It's going to be a long discovery period I think, so much to chew on
I'm still chewing for sure!
Still waiting for the Orcs & Goblins overview vid! Great work you peeps!
My fave
6-7 was fear causing auto breaks. Then the slaanesh LD bomb army where they debuffed you and then terror charged or panicked you.
There were some mega bad rules in earlier additions
I like the Bretonnian Lord, it has a classic charm to it. The face I’m sure you could improve with a different way of painting it
Then buy it and have a good time
More please and thank you. 😅
coming up
Wondered the same about possibly being too complicated relative to "modern" movement to streamlined like AoS and even 10th 40k, and moving back to other games. Also reflecting on Rob's recent comments on not enough time to do everything we wabnt. But, me and my buddy are dusting off our 3rd ed WHFB dwarves, orcs/gobbos and high elves (that we rebased and used in AoS 1 & 2) and will give it a try. Been massively enjoying your content and learning with you either way! Thanks guys!
Val’s opening interpretive dances are what makes this show. Sets the whole vibe for the episode.
You mention 2:1 Unit Strength for preventing FBIGO a couple times, but it is probably important to remember it is actually 2:1 +1 to be "More" than twice their Unit Strength.
I mean... Yes fair enough 😜
Very good chat! Keep the style, it works!
I would like to see videos with a scheme of the most resilient combination of units each army can produces and what thw combo cost. The same with damage, spells, ranged, mobility and so on :D
Love the show guys. Maybe it’s just me but I think another contentious rule that no one is talking about is partial and full cover. From why I understand if your model is between 1-50% obscures by models or terrain that’s -1 to shooting and 51-99% obscured is -2. Hopefully y’all can mention that next time if you have a chance.
Yes I thought about talking to that but my brain was melting trying to describe combat res as it was... But yeah partially obscured units provide negative to hit penalties much like they had in the past.
Huge thing no one really seems to focus on is how important initiative is now. Arguably the most important combat stat now and ASL is now a serious liability unless you can stick it on a T5/4++ champion/hero
That goofy as model is a nice to have, it’s buying a bit of Warhammer history, a collectors item. Yeah it’s derpy, but so is nagash’s og model. So it’s a nice little look back in time, but it gives me hope that they will bring back new other stuff like the dwarf steam tank :-)
Looking back in time is fine but for a launch plagued with discussions of quality due to old models then going back seems bad
@@SquareBasedOldWorld it’s not a plague to me and many others, but I don’t put an emotional weight on recent releases being better, I just enjoy both old and new minis for their own qualities. Including the derpy and the new higher detailed stuff. I’m just going to enjoy it for what it is but crack on, you do you :-)
I have two sets of Battle Masters and am deciding to use the models for a Bretonian army. That's 18x Knights of the Realm, 6x Grail Knights, 30x Men at Arms, 30x Bowman. Sounds like a good start to an army! Great episode, guys! Always love the energy!
ive got some as well. goddam that is a lot of figures eh! Even bought some figures from a THIRD set cheap
@@GhostGuitars Yeah absolutely a TON of great old-Hammer minis! You can definitely make a good size Warriors of Chaos with it as well. I'll probably use the Chaos Warriors as my Chosen Warriors since they've got Halberds and shields. Unfortunately, the Chaos archers won't be useful even though they look rad.
"I WAS FOURTEEN!!!" hahaha literally tears in my eyes, this entire segment is pure gold
Love the show guys. Discovered it just before Christmas and I've been binging the entire back catalogue (including the @thehonestwargamerstreams Old World content). Keep it up. Will try and catch Rob at the launch in Nottingham on Saturday. #SquareBassed
Oh yes!! #square based!
I’m trying the crunch the numbers on Val’s question at the end of the show about dispels with different wizard levels. It will depend to a degree on the casting value of the spell - obviously if the casting player isn’t successful in the first place then the other player isn’t going to need to dispel it. The higher the caster is going to have to roll in the first place, the higher the other player is going to need to roll to dispel (before any offset in wizard levels comes into play). I haven’t seen all the magic rules yet, anyone got a handle on the range of casting values in the game?
Breaking into the sculptors' houses to steal greens right off their desks.
I like how the lord model looks myself. :/
Then go wild and get that badboy for your army. Our preference is just how we feel. You can feel different and we can support it
@@SquareBasedOldWorld I would but he'd make a lousy high elf. Hoho!
This is the sort of crunch that I really appreciate. Particularly the information on LoS. It makes skirmishers that much more valuable as they can spread out and hide your units from those cannons and arrows.
I think we need more on LoS as I think the comment was that could shoot between the skirmishers, plus there seemed to be contradiction in the slide text - first part was model to model, but second part with the bold line said in any model has LoS to another model/unit, they can "see" the unit (and so shoot with all or not or???)
Skirmishers will be tricky to screen with but I don't think impossible. Just will need to make sure there's no gaps in the lines between the bases. Because yes it is possible to be obscured (unit can be partially seen) which confers a to hit penalty depending on how much of the target can be seen.
Love it, great analysis
Thanks guys - the breaking rules will create some interesting synergies between infantery and cav (which is great for the game). This will also create a new view on cheap units to gain numbers (e.g. men at arms)..sounds awesome:)
I'm completely fine with the Bretonnian lord. Nowadays with 3d sculpting and so many sculptors out there, we have cartoon faced and proportioned minis. Until I read people harping on it in the forums I didn't really even think anything of it.
Yeah of course it's not or consequence other than the LEADING miniature company releasing it
Hey, Rob. I loved the beastmen video! 👍
Let's go! Listening to this while I produce my movement trays out of metal sheet, wood, and curses
wow that sounds so great!!
@@SquareBasedOldWorld it definitely isn't, but your discussion of the new old unreleased bretonnian model made it all so much better 😂
I came for the comedy, I stayed for the Square Bas-t.
Loved the Beastman video, but they're my faction. I know a lot of people (Val!) simply have never looked into them, but the witchy, feral creatures of the woods vibe really does it for me. Can't wait to get my hands on the rulebooks and go to some events with them.
I'm seriously considering them after that vid. I really want Woodelves because I love the lore and aesthetic but it sounds like they are the Tau of Fantasy and I don't want my friends to hate playing against me. But beast men sound fun and they're models are all available.
@@questery the Beastmen and Wood Elves are mortal enemies and you can base them similarly so it may be good to try both if you can! That's my plan anyway, so my brother has an army to play against me.
These drunken furries might win me over yet! -Val
One starts with an innocent marauders’ army… and ends up with a super OP lord on chaos dragon!
That’s the PATH TO DAMNATION!
Another great show! Love these discussions.
Something I've not seen picked up a lot but i think is game changing for dwarfs is all their infantry units now being 5+ not 10+. Huge amounts of chaff and tech options from that I i think.
I think lots of units having 5+ leaves some real opportunity
The way I see the unit strength is that you want bigger blocks of whatever you are taking. You don't simply want to take many smaller units but a few bigger units. For example, for Bretonnia, I probably want 10+ knights in each of my lances rather than 6 so I can have that big charge, kill enough to be double unit strength, and break through immediately onto the next unit in the overrun or get reformed right away to smash the rest of their line. Do a proper hammer and anvil tactic by sending up my men-at-arms and battle pilgrims up the middle, stick the enemy in, and then smash the sides with the Knights of various kinds.
I think your template example exemplifies one of the many reasons why it will be a bad idea to use circle bases or spacers for smaller base sizes. It adds ambiguity to what is fully under the template and you are unsure where one model ends and another begins. Some spacers are better and show that end of the base, but others are just double layered inserts. I know the community is trying to be accepting to everybody, but I think base spacers are the wrong way to do that. People need to rebase properly especially in a few months when competitive play and campaigns start up. Circle bases in converted movement trays (like how Conquest does it) make this ambiguity even worse, because then arcing and wheeling becomes a severe problem, especially once you start losing models.
Haha you guys were extra brutal in parts this episode, rob straight destroying the sculptor (head swap all we need?) and val shouting out a channel while simultaneously burrying him for how weird he is 😂 jokes aside great stuff as always! 👍
To be clear: I am an OG Lord Blaxill subscriber. I just want folks to know that after his intro he drops the bit and the content is always insightful! Also I think he's wearing me down with the bit and I might even actually kind of like it now. That's what committment gets you. - Val.
@@SquareBasedOldWorld haha love it! Thanks for trawling through 150+ comments also 🙏
I love that exact style of model and am really happy they are releasing it now.
Loving your work Rob! (and Val!)
I dont talk about "it" because I will get my books in April and want to have the full joyfull feeling of discovery for myself. So thanks for the content so far and see ya in April, Lads.
Since Val hasn't heard it yet: "Gimmie more of that sweet Val voice"
There we goo! Thanks for being a bud
also I would be proud to have my Patreon contribution to go towards Martin-cake
I hope Game Workshop don't keep thinking Warhammer is a joke and starts stepping up to work alongside the fans.
Oh, just to let you know Rob the Beastmen went down for 4-6 hours on CZcams and couldn't watch it till later in the day.
I don't know if others had the same problem.
Great work like always boys and can't wait for the next video.
Robbo is an artist and took it down to make some edits. Might have been punished by the algo for being a perfectionist I reckon - Val
@@SquareBasedOldWorld Lol true, I'm just glad of all the hard work you both bring to the table and can't wait to see what Game Workshop does.
Just tidy up one thing while listening to the podcast, and go from there 👍
Rob have you ever played Kings of war? I found it to be pretty balanced. Still, going to build a TK with their miniatures. The bretonnian lord has a face that only Morgiana LaFay would love.
Love for Martin. Really sounds like there needs to be a union drive at games workshop.
Just want to point out that going from 20 to 25 is not 25% bigger, it's 56.25% bigger, because you're expanding the bases along two dimensions. 25x25mm bases are 625mm^2 and 20x20mm bases are 400mm^2. 625/400=1.5625
Yes but Don't let this distract you from the the fact that in 1966, Al Bundy scored four touchdowns in a single game while playing for the Polk High School Panthers in the 1966 city championship game versus Andrew Johnson High School, including the game-winning touchdown in the final seconds against his old nemesis, Bubba "Spare Tire" Dixon.
Also I could barely coherently explain break tests... Cut me some slack ; )
@@SquareBasedOldWorld I’ll remember this fact forever
These guys are spiffy and fun!
For magic:
The only signature magic missiles for non-racial lores are Doombolt (Dark, 8+ 24" small template S3 AP2) and The Summoning (Daemonology, 9+ 2d6 S4 AP1). Most racial lores also have a magic missile - Flock of Doom (9+ 24" small template S3 AP1) for Wood Elves, Burning Gaze for Bretonnia (10+ 5d6" S4 AP5; every model under the line), Gaze of Gork for Orcs (9+ 5d6" S5 AP3; every model under the line), Devolve (8+ 18" leadership, wounds = amount failed by) and Viletide (8+, 5d6 S1 AP5) for Beastmen, and Blue fire (9+ 18" d6+3 S4 AP2) for Tzeentch.
Viletide, blue fire, Gaze of Gork, and Burning Gaze are all quite good; I'd lean towards Viletide and Blue Fire being the best, because Beastmen and Chaos have access to Dark and Daemonology magic to guarantee additional good missile spells, and very strong casting bonuses, with Beastmen able to get irresistable force on any roll of a double (except double 1s), and Chaos having Skull and Mark of Tzeentch for a further +2 to cast; the Greenskin and Bret spells are very good down a flank of a wide unit from close range, but are harder to use. Flock of doom is probably just bad, and I doubt you'll see it, since Wood Elves have reliable access to much better spells and good shooting.
For a level 1 an 8+/9+ spell would be ~58.3%/~42.7% to cast. For a level 4, it'd be ~91.7%/83.3%. For a level 2, it'd be ~72.2%/58.3%, which would be enough to outperform shooting for the cost on a wizard with access to one of those + another missile or vortex spell (eg: Chaos or Beastmen) vs targets without magic resistance.
It should also be worth noting that dispel range is limited, and wizards engaged in combat cannot dispel, which makes magic missiles and vortexes, which are cast after movement and from range, significantly easier to get off than other spells, since the wizard can position to be outside of dispel range, or you can charge the enemy wizard or their unit to stop them from attempting to dispel.
On the topic of breaking units, you hit the nail on the head. Leadership and unit strength have really been slipping under the radar in a lot of discussions.
1. Necromancy magic/other leadership reductions - there are 3 necromancy spells that can reduce the leadership of enemy units (1 enchantment to grant terror, 1 vortex to AoE -1 leadership and negate General's inspiring presence, and a Hex for -2). That's up to -4 just from spells, so if you win combat, even without having a numbers advantage, you can cap your opponent at 5-6 leadership, likely even less, since a lot of units are Ld6 or 7 without the general. Of course, necromancy is only available to some factions (Empire and Tomb Kings at the moment), but there's been some talk about the lore being weak, and I definitely disagree with that assessment; some spells are underwhelming, but that's true of every lore, and you can guarantee multiple attempts at nuking the leadership of an enemy unit.
Wood Elf lords on dragons can get 2 6" -1 to enemy leadership effects from a 20pt spite and 50pt item. Combined with terror, that's -3 to the leadership when charging a unit within 6", which is brutal (though the spite only applies to fear/terror/panic).
2. Unit strength - people seem to be leaning a lot into MSU as if this were 7th ed due to the lack of stepup, but big units = more resistance to fear, more output if running wide due to the fighting rank rules, and higher US to actually route off enemy units. It may very well be worth running blocks of 30-40 guys (especially very cheap units like goblins, orc boys, state troops, and skeleton warriors) just like it was in 8th for that reason, or even with more elite units.
Also, units with terror are immune to terror. The -1 leadership during the break test will not apply, since that's part of the terror rule.
This is exactly the type of deep doiving I want to do! Thanks for the headstart.
@@SquareBasedOldWorld To correct myself on something, it seems that wizards are limited to only 1 signature spell, so Daemonology and Dark Magic don't let you double up on guaranteed magic missiles. They also don't have other decent ranged damage spells, so if the wizard is being used for blasting chaff off the board, they probably aren't the best choices (though both lores are still very good for things aside from dealing damage with spells).
...
...For blaster mages of that can get a good racial signature missile (Beastmen, Chaos, Greenskins, Bretonnia), may be better off with either Battle magic or Elementalism
...
- Battle Magic for fireball (8+ 24" 2d6 S4 AP-) and flamestorm (9+ 12" d3+3 S3 AP2 vortex that has controlled movement).
.
- Elementalism for Plague of Rust (hex 9+ 21" -2 to armour), Wind Blast (8+ 15" d3+3 S5 AP1 + target gives ground/is pushed 2" back), and Elemental Spirit (random Vortex, 9+ 15" d3+3 S4 AP -1).
Greenskins and Bretonnia get both lores. Chaos gets battle magic, and Beastmen gets Elementalism.
this channel is the only reason im invested in the old world 🥰
Aw shux. Probably a blessing and a curse for you.
I have a high tolerance for old models but my brain processed the Bret Lord as from 1998, not 2008, when I first read the article. And even then I thought, put your gloves on!
Great work
I'm finding a lot of the bat rep guys are playing the game where they just.... march up in a line and battle one on one and guess what... nothing breaks and it feels grindy. I really think the outnumber 2-1 autobreak thing is a MUCH more important rule than they think it is. Big anvils absorbing a charge and then the hammer coming in on the flank to get combat rez and then the combined units outnumbering is gonna be the ticket. I really think BIG units to allow for that outnumber are going to be much much better than folks are initially thinking.
8:55 Chaos Marauders!
I'm doing a Tzeentch themed army and will be using some square based Kairic Acolytes as Marauders
That's a great pic!
I wonder if we'll see a skirmisher Meta. Seems like huge advantage to have some troops in front of your main battle units that can prevent eat up charges and ranged attacks, but which your units can charge through when the time is right.
Skirmishers and unit types and formations are probably their own episode.
the thing about terror still affecting immune to psych seems like a mistake that needs to be corrected by the authors.Cant imagine that being on purpose
I think it's ok tbh.
one of the best ones yet
I don't understand the hate for this model.
Pure nostalgia for those of us who played in the late 90s and 00s.
Hate is strong. It's clearly not up to modern standards and so releasing it seems odd and up for some laughter
@@SquareBasedOldWorld I dunno... you guys were pretty harsh on it lol
I’m in for the Bretonnian Lord. I just like hand-sculpted stuff. Besides let’s be honest, most of us can’t paint faces better than that anyway
44:53 beastmen was my fav so far, high elves next confirmed 😂😉❤
11:28 I LOVE the OG Val episode! It is peak, peak internet. Not only does he do a lovely round table of the warhammer fantasy battles reincarnations, he does the best summary of mid-GW history out there.
I've seen so many negative comments about this mini, even attacking the painter. I quite like the charm of it tbh. Everyone that had ridiculed it has zoomed right in. When are you ever going to look at your mini that close? I also wish I could paint as well as the studio painter. Yea I disagree with some of the choices, but I also could never pull off that paint job
1:37:00 the face of the guy at the top when the guy at the bottom asked about 20mm to 25mm bases percentage change (because he was quick to talk), having an example with 25mm to 30mm base change :D
Not sure what you mean?
@@SquareBasedOldWorld a facial expression...
nice movie!
Vals GW management voice sends me
Lovely! Is there a comprehensive list of Leadership debuffs? Cheers!
Lol I didn't know there was this whole meme side to the new lord. I think he looks fucking awesome
Think it's quite funny that along with rereleasing some figures that many people didn't think were any good even at the time they're also releasing figures for the first time that they didn't even think were any good back then themselves!
I mean that's at least meta af
I love the idea that events will see some players with full on ancient GW models riding the nostalgia train facing off against fully 3d printed alternatives.
That would be the main motivation for me to play in an event - get the old metal 3rd ed. minis on the table for all the nostalgic comments. ;)
I still have my GW test sculpt from when I applied back in the early 2000s. No wonder they offered me a job😂
Maybe i'm in a minority here but I absolutely love this model I think it looks great. The large hands, high cheek bones etc. feel like a stylistic choice thats come about from technological limitations at the time, but despite that I think it gives the model a lot of character. I think saying that this is a bad look for the community is a stretch, we have amazing new minis like the new lord on pegasus and tomb king on bone dragon, and I think the release of this lord on foot model will satisfy fans such as myself that love the style of the old miniatures. You two dont like it, I respect that, and im sure your views are more in line with the majority of the community. They won't be producing more models like this in the future, and because of that I see a release like this as a rare treasure.
You are in a larger minority than we thought!
@@SquareBasedOldWorld I am also part of the minority- I think it's an excellent model. His face is sub-optimal, but I think those limitations will only hamper the very best painters in achieving that more realistic finish that is the trend nowadays.
Love the Bretonnian lord! Will pay even the price of the ushabti for that mini. ❤
Shine on you crazy diamond
Intro!!❤
Template hack. The clear plastic lid off a pringles tube has a 3 inch diameter:)
That is a serious pro tip right there. Surely one of the round bases must be the equivalent of 3" as well?
@@SquareBasedOldWorld round bases aren't see through and Pringle lids come with pringles. Mic drop.
Can't wait to have Rob sign my Lego baseplate.
The Bretonnian lord looks just fine. Sure its kind of goofy hands but thats ok.
Re: terror, got a riddle for you lovely gents. Imagine a unit of Necropolis Knights, who cause fear. Then imagine that we give their champion an item that says "the wearer gains the terror special rule". There's one terror-causing champion and a few fear-causing knights - what happens when this unit charges? Is it treated as if it was causing terror? Or because the majority of the models cause fear it only causes fear?
A model causes terror therefore terror and fear
just another legend convention no dramas
Listening! Go Bills!
GO BILLS #SQUAREBASSED
Good Chat Lads, I've found chaff allocated to core the biggest "wins" when writing a list.