What happened to Tommy in The Last Of Us Part 2?
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- I was meant to make this video about a year ago, I was reminded in some video comments recently to make it. What made me make this video was his attitude towards Ellie at the end of Part 2. So i wanted to delve into the character to see why his character did a complete U-Turn.
- Hry
I remember first playing TLOU2 and when we were playing as Abby and Tommy was sniping at us, I had no idea it was him! When we actually fought him and threw him in the water I questioned that it looks like Tommy but was like nah im tripping. Boy was I wrong😂
How slow you must be then
@@erwinsmith3198You seem terribly bitter and not good to be around.
I think Tommy's story is somewhat taken from the film, Patriot, with Mel Gibson. In the film, Mel Gibson's character: "Benjamin Martin," doesn't want to go war with England for American Independence, not because he's afraid of fighting, but rather because he has been in war before, and he knows the type of man he was during war, and doesn't want to revert back to being that man.
And I think that's the same case with Tommy Miller. He said in the first game Jackson gave him and his people a second chance, and I think he was partly thinking of himself and the years he spent with Joel as a Hunter, and given how vicious these two are in combat, the way they are willing to cruelly torture others to get what they need, and not to mention they both murdered countless innocent people, I think Tommy not wanting to avenge Joel's murderers is not because he doesn't want justice for his brother, but rather because he doesn't want to, perhaps is even afraid of going back to who he used to be.
When he does decide to go after them, we see just how deadly of an opponent Tommy is, even though he preferred ranged fighting while his brother liked to get up close, Tommy was every bit as dangerous and deadly as Joel was, perhaps even more when you consider the tactical ability a good sniper would have to have.
And we see the same rage in him that we saw in Joel numerous times, especially when Ellie was captured by David. But in the end, it costs Tommy everything he has after his brother's death. So you could argue, even though it was for his brother, considering all that Tommy lost while doing it, was it really worth it?
I don’t know how this comment has zero responses after 10 months, because this hit the nail on the head. A lot of people complained that the character writing / decision making was horrible in this game, but I honestly understood every character and their motivations. I completely understand why people didn’t like the game, but I love the story they told. After all, it’s an apocalypse story, not everyone is meant to get a happy ending, even those that may deserve it.
we still need that 3 days in Seattle as Tommy DLC
Joel, Tommy and Ellie are cut from the same cloth. Tommy is disabled cause he took that bullet for Ellie. He wouldve killed àbby if ellie wasnt there... and ellie was the only one capable of getting the job done. They owed it to Joel.... he gave his life for ellie
I think that bullet to Tommy's head caused brain damage, that's the only way I can make sense of his complete 180 decision to not want to include Ellie in the revenge only to pressure her into doing it.
It didn’t hit his head it pierced off the side of his skin.
I haven't watched the video yet, and I know this comment is a year old lol but I wouldn't say so. His brother was taken from him after they reconnected only quite recently. The woman who then did that to his brother then mutilates him too... wouldn't you want to go after her "at any cost", even if that means acting immoral towards Ellie? A major theme of the game is revenge/actions "at any cost" (Abby talks about this with multiple characters, its intertwined fully within Ellie's 'fall') and how it destroys people, their relationship, themselves. We see Tommy utterly consumed by this. He's a destroyed man by the end of the game, not necessarily brain damaged but severely traumatised and wrestling with his turmoil in the only way he sees fit: pressuring Ellie into something he can no longer do himself.
You know the brain damage theory could actually make sense. There was a story about a man named "Phineas Gage" who had a tamping iron go through his brain. He survived, but the biggest change that everyone noted about him is the change in his personality. He went from being even-tempered, to a rude, obnoxious person that spouted profanities. The only physical disability he was left with (that I can find) is vision loss in his left eye. With that being said, maybe Tommy only had a part of his frontal lobe damaged, and this is why he acts differently now. The parts of his brain required for riding a horse, or fighting may still be perfectly intact.
That’s exactly what my thoughts were
Even if he didn't have brain damage, Tommy is now a cripple, and is now no longer able to fight like he did. Before that, I would say he was equally as ruthless qnd as deadly an opponent as Joel, even though their fighting styles were different, as in Tommy liked to fight from afar and Joel liked to get up close and personal.
@@thecowboy9698 oh no i agree, i was just explaining why he may be acting differently now :)
@@chattycatty3336 - To be honest, I believe it was merely brought on by a desire for vengeance, and now utter bitterness - bitterness over losing his brother, his physical mobility, and his wife - and an insatiable lust for vengeance against the person who stole those things from him.
Nah the brain damage theory isn’t an excuse for what’s simply shoddy writing in a character. Same goes for Dutch in red dead 2,they both go from understanding,intelligent,loved and well respected by others around them,to simply crazy evil murdering mad men out of nowhere.
I love both games but it’s still bs
I've always took it as Tommy was trying to protect Ellie. Its not that hes being dumb and saying he truly doesnt think its the WLF. He's trying to do justice for his brother by talking Ellie down and keeping her safe.. because he knows Joel wouldnt want her going out and getting harmed. (Callback to when he would even harass Jesse about her patrols) Then he can go out and do what he needs to without endangering her. It may even also be because she also feels like Sarah to Tommy now too. Also I dont ever remember hearing about them hiding their names. People kept saying that but he never seemed to in the first game with Henry and Sam or anything. I think in that moment.. Tommy and Joel saw a girl they presumed to be in danger and by herself.. and just wanted to keep her calm. Plus they have been living in Jackson for some time now. Ellie taught Joel how to trust and love again.. So he probably didn't even expect her to be a threat in the slightest. Then you can see in that scene when he does finally piece it together.. he knows he messed up.
Just hearing about the apparent third game. I would honestly love to play as Tommy. that would be badass
I personally think tlou 2 for Tommy shows his decent , and how love can ultimately turn people into different things, Joel's love for Ellie turns him a lot more into a human, kind , Tommy was a very kind, loving and protective individual we see it in his introduction in part 1 and part 2, he loves ellie and joel and maria, he originally was against revenge because he knew that's not what joel would want for him or Ellie, we do see him turn into a beast almost, demolishing squads of the WLF and killing Nick/Manny to avenge Joel, he even almost killed Abby if not for the save, he then again wants to leave to protect the others, then was willing to sacrifice himself telling ellie to run and taking an arrow and a bullet in the process, however out of all those traits for Tommy so far there is 1 more I'd mention, he always keeps his word, he never goes back on it, he kept jiels secret never spoke of it, he kept his word of figuring something out to go after the WLF(himself probably a lot scarier than a bunch of jackson guys) he always jeeps his word, so I always atributed his outburst at the end to Ellie promising him something and going back on it, I know Tommy did not mean what he said for sure, and I imagine he felt really bad later ,but I hope someday to see Tommy again hopefully he recovers and we get him as a playable character with maybe him and joel in the early days flashbacks
Amazing video 👏
Your videos are great mate. Hope you come back soon.
Agree with everything you are saying and its this inconstistency not only with Tommy but several characters that makes me feel more mixed about part 2.
Tommy and Joel giving out there names like it's a discount code was so dumb
Exactly the video I was waiting for, thank you so much!
Yeh man sometimes people change, and for the worse. Especially after tragedy and personal loss. Dudes sitting in a house alone in Jackson stewing on this, probably has vilified Abby as the catalyst for the loss of everything in his life. I completely buy this development, it’s tragic.
One more major point of contention is Joel's views towards revenge. Joel is a violent man, but he uses violence for practical reasons - i.e. survival. Joel scoffs at revenge and thinks it's stupid - we get a glimpse of that in the first game when he reads a note from a woman who swears revenge on someone and he remarks about it that being silly. This is again confirmed by Tommy in the second game when Ellie says Joel would've already been halfway to Seattle and Tommy tells her no he wouldn't be - not "I don't think so" or "we don't know that" but a very emphatic "NO, he wouldn't". This means Tommy also knows Joel's views on revenge, and I'm betting when Sarah died, Joel did absolutely nothing to track down the soldier who gave the order (or maybe he did and it went badly and that's when Joel decided revenge wasn't worth it). In either case, Tommy clearly seems to know this very well about Joel and as such would know that Joel would NOT want Tommy or Ellie to avenge him, especially if it meant putting themselves in danger.
I really think, reading from Tommy's demeanor and expressions, that Tommy ONLY went after Abby BECAUSE he's trying to protect Ellie - both from physical harm AND from the horrible shit one would inevitably have to do to be able to get to Abby. He's familiar with that and the nightmares it brings - nightmares so bad that Tommy told Joel that their survival "wasn't worth it", but Tommy still goes after Abby because if he succeeds then Ellie will no longer be compelled to do this. If he succeeds, he'll save Ellie from harm and from the nightmares of becoming a monster just to accomplish a silly goal like revenge.
Characters CAN change - some of the best stories written have characters go through such crazy arcs that it turns a bad person into a good one, or even a good one into a bad one, so this COULD have happened with Tommy, but if it did, it happened off-screen and that is a major, MAJOR issue. There's not even a quick and lazy explanation like Dina coming back to Ellie and saying "don't mind him - remember, he's become a completely different person since Seattle, that shot in the head definitely scrambled his brains some, so don't take anything he said close to heart, the real Tommy would never say anything like that" - no, we're just expected to ASSUME that the toll it took on Tommy was so extreme that he became a bitter douchebag driven by nothing but revenge, even though we so no indication or tiniest hint of that happening, it was just a snap of fingers, which ends up looking terrible in the finished product.
You are absolutely right that it seems that characters in this game act the way the plot demands them to, which makes for an inorganic story.
To be fair... Joel didnt massacre all the Fireflies. He took out a small percent of their remainder - anyone standing in his way eith a gun or a knife. So Tommy wouldn't have kicked Joel out just from that news alone. Tommy himself parted ways with the Fireflies due to ideological differences, perhaps ideological issues similar to why Joel had to fight them in the first place.
Tommy at the end of TLOU2 reminds me of both Miller from MGSV (Permanently injured, but hungry for revenge) and the dude from John Wick 2 that used the blood marker to force John out of retirement (Using a prior obligation to coerce the protagonist into carrying out a heavy task after believing they were already free)
Brain damage from the bullet, change in personality.
Come back we miss your game analysis’ !!
at 35:19 you say you can't remember her making that promise to him, seconds earlier he literally said she made it once they made it back to Jackson. Likely with him and Dina in critical condition and Jesse dead she made it very convincing and passionate at the time. Anyways you make some good points as well as some uninformed points throughout the video. The reason he 'acted dumb' at first was to buy himself time (literally sets off alone to avenge Joel the next day, he was planning to) and just wanted Ellie to be kept safe 'locked up' in Jackson until he returned. And with Tommy's change of character, you act confused but answered your own questions, yes it's because he was permanently injured by Abby and has even more of a personal vendetta now, 'she ruined his life' as you said yourself. He is (wrongfully) taking it out on Ellie as she is the only one left who understands the full gravity of this (being part of the family) and has expressed the same personal hatred of Abby, and he no longer physically can do this himself. It's to show how the eye for an eye (literally, he lost and eye right after shooting Manny's eye out) mentality has taken over him, overwriting the protective parent figure he once was... That being said, I hope he realises this is not what Joel would have wanted and reflects this in Part 3 when Ellie inevitably confronts him about not having killed Abby. I hope he regrets and apologises pushing her towards ever having gone to Santa Barbara, even though he'd want to lash out at her.
Well Mr. Critique, you made your conclusion in the entire video, but just didn't say it outright at the end. Druckmann didn't know what he wanted to do with Tommy, and so, this secondary character from the original is now involved in, or responsible for basically every pivotal moment in Part 2. He's a narrative device. "How do I get Joel to die?" Tommy. "How do I get Ellie to leave?" Tommy. "How do I get Ellie to come back?" Tommy. "How do I get Ellie to leave again?" Tommy. They pushed and pulled on his character in order to get others into their conceived narrative positions.
Bad writing happened....
Though I guess you can right it off, by saying he got brain damage when he got shot in the head. Why Neil thought it was okay to bring Tommy back and not do that to Marlene, instead (and dump Abby for Marlene) I'll never know.
As for the over analysis stuff before the shot to the head... just let it go. That stuff doesn't really matter compared to his character change at the farm.
Anyways... I'm hoping that Marlene makes a return on the HBO show.... and that Abby never happens.
You try very hard to make Tommy's behavior make sense. It doesn't work. The answer is lazy writers making events happen because the story needs them to happen.
I've got a bad feeling about the show's next season (or two). Especially after the utter waste of time on episode 3.
Personally its just neil druckmanns fault for writing tommy in part 2 worse, someone just didnt hit correctly and this is what we got
Those saying it's bad writing are so wrong. Tommy very obviously has brain damaged which changed him. It's why he and Maria split up - he's not the same man he was before. The writing is perfect, lotta people in here just don't get it.
In my personal opinion I think Tommy will find a skilled surgeon to get his disabled leg back in decent shape. I would assume his eyesight is still at least halfway decent at best because he still carries his sniper rifle I think Tommy is biting his time waiting for the opportunity to get better so he can finish the job
What happened to Tommy?
He couldn't find a competent writer.....
I think whoever wrote this was set on to make Ellie's greatest fear come true - to end up alone. You finish the game, Ellie spares Abby, loses Dina and Tommy would be even more pissed if we go off the last dialogue with him.
They just didn't know how to do it, and IMO made it in the laziest, shitty way possible. I'd say the game is an okay-to-good over all. It's just shit like that that makes me question who tf wrote this. It's so out of character.
The r e a l Tommy, I imagine, would have been more then understanding. He would have given the info to Ellie as a complete option. I also suspected a brain injury. I want to believe that Neil loves these characters a lot. But the inconsistency, just to push a narrative so Ellie ends up alone.
I'm not saying that the idea is bad, for how dark it is, if it was executed properly, i would have loved it in a bitter way. Only if they made it make sense, for crying out loud ._.
Its been 5 years get over it ppl change when they are happy