Disaster strikes the NASA Starliner Program! Is this the final nail in the coffin for Boeing?
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- čas přidán 21. 05. 2024
- Boeing Starliner may have just suffered one too many setbacks. Let's hope so!
#space #nasa #spacex
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Boeing was once a company of engineers, by engineers, for engineers. McDonnell Douglas management proudly proclaimed they transformed "A mere engineering firm" Into a viable Fortune 500 corporation. This is the result of this transformation. A corporation of speculators, by speculators, for speculators
Word
So who was to blame for the rudder reversal cover-up that pre-dated the MDD merger then?
@@rednammoc The same managers who would later vote in favor of the MDD merger?
I was at Lockheed when the BoD voted to replace the CEO with an engineering background with an 80s bean counter. Messed everything up.
100% right
Boeing should be sued for malfeasance and blacklisted from any government contracts.
As their planes fall out of the sky.
@@puddintame7794 They don't actually.
Same here in the UK with Fujitsu - all the mayhem they caused because their software could not add up at the Post Office, cover ups, lies, fraud - and they are still being awarded Govt. Contracts.
@@jamescarter8311 this is true, they don't fall out of the sky, some drive into it at full power with the crew fighting to prevent it because "computer says no" that one lot were not told about, and the second lot who did know found the "approved" method to deal with it didn't work
apart from that only bits of them fall from the sky
They killed hundreds of people to make more money and nobody went to prison.
It's crazy that a simple capsule has taken 10 years and still has all these problems, when it took half as long to develop and put into operation all three of the Apollo capsule, command module, AND the lunar module together.
Engineers ran things then, now it's bean counters and investors.
Yes, true ;•) but with a hundred times the $$ and a thousand times the work force.
🚀🏴☠️🎸
To make it even worse, the engineers at NASA responsible for Apollo wrote the manual (ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19720005243/downloads/19720005243.pdf) on how to do a project like this successfully. Did anyone at Boeing read it? No. Did any engineer working on Artemis read it? Most didn't even know it existed until recently. You can only stand on the shoulders of giants if you RTFM!
Yes. And those craft may have been death machines by todays standards, but they mostly worked. They even worked well enough to bring a crew back alive with a dead service module. Todays crash should not only be able to do that, but also they should be able to do it in a reusable way, with a lot more safety margins and yeah: Without damn computer and/ or coms failures.
All they had to do was get the engineering plans of the Apollo capsule and build it from those plans. We know the Apollo capsule worked well. Would have saved Boeing millions..
Boeing is historic! Never has a company been once so celebrated and rightly so; then fallen with such force as if circling an inescapeable blackhole event horizon. This is definitely not your Father’s Boeing.
Engineers, no longer run the company since the merger with McDonnell Douglas.
In the last merger, Boeing kept the name and used the failed business ideas of the new partner. Cut costs to the bone and never design anything new from the ground up.
Unchecked corporate greed and late stage capitalism - the decline will just keep getting exponentially worse.
DEI in action.
The issues with the airliners are completely overblown by the media and largely the result of the airlines themselves. The 777 is one of the safest aircraft ever produced. The media will be primarily to blame for Boeing's destruction.
When I see a space headline that has the word.."Starliner"..
my first thought is.."What broke this time?"
too bad that boeing is such a huge campaign contributor, otherwise we'd be able to cancel this gov't contract in which boeing has been fleecing the taxpayers for decades.
Eu nem pago essa conta e já fico irritado... Imagina vocês
And yet, their Stock price goes up, with 2 dead whistle-blower, and multiple plane and spacecraft issues, and yes, the Atlas 5 is part built by Boeing so it's leak failure is also Boeing related......??? SMH...
Yeah, blame the private business not the person you voted for.
@@jamescarter8311We’ll blame both because both share the responsibility.
@@jamescarter8311you think MiC waste is a blue v red issue? Time to grow up
Luckily, SpaceX has 3 Crew Dragons in its fleet, with a new, updated Dragon in production.
I don't think it's luck. It's called Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance..
Plus the cadence of their launch system is so many, if there were issues , they would have shown up already. The Dragon capsule also launches many times
Exactly so why is the angry astronaut saying we would have to depend on Russia to take us up. Because of space X that ship has sailed.
@@sensei1x I'm not sure. SpaceX should be able to provide adequate coverage, unless a issue is discovered with Dragon, but since it's flown so much, I doubt there are any major issues. Now that they have added the ability to launch crewed missions from SLC 40, there shouldn't be any problems.
@@jrdaparker I agree with you.
Tax payers paying the max for minimal results as usual !
Incorrect. Boeing is responsible for any over runs. It's a firm fixed contract.
@@tomasgomez7083 Kinda correct... Boeing got payed a lot more than SpaceX and delivered nothing so far.
@@tomasgomez7083if you think MiC contracts take losses you’re insane
I can't get over the bravery of the two astronauts who climbed into starliner on the last attempt. A vehicle with its back history should have never been cleared for a crewed launch until they had had at least one launch with zero problems.
Those two weren’t Astronauts. They were Daredevils.
Are you sure that was bravery or just being stupid?
there is no such thing as flight with zero problems. the two astronauts, of course, have been intimately involved in working all of the issues with Starliner and know the vehicle inside nd out. They are far more familiar the actual and potential risks than you could ever hope to be.
They pulled the short straws
@@rushpuppy2 Reminds me of the likes of Gus Grissom.
It would be about time. They haven't done anything successful yet.
Incompetent Boeing
NASA is the problem here. If Boeing was allowed to change the design as they encounter issues, they'd fix them. They're not allowed to because NASA wont allow deviation from the original certified design.
@camojoe83, but SpaceX must have had the same contract. This does not at all sound like how they work and develope. With Boeing already having experience in building space craft, nobody expected them to deliver after SpaceX.
If it's Boeing, it's not going.
If this was "old" NASA. A second (backup) vehicle would not even had been contracted for.
We failed the moon generation 😭😭
But Crew Dragon was the “Back-up” spacecraft!
Yes.! Team Sierra.! Tenacity to ground control, we have docked.
It is not NASA Starliner, it is BOEING Starliner
Well, it's both. Few people called the Apollo Lunar Module the Grumman Lunar Module only.
@@user-hc9lp3hb1r They didn't call it NASA Lunar Module either.
@@user-hc9lp3hb1r NASA bought and flew the Apollo spacecraft, they are only buying rides on Dragon and Starliner. The craft are still owned by SpaceX and Boeing respectively.
Year 3038: First mission to visit the supermassive black hole at the centre of Milky Way has launched.
In other news, Boeing claims that they will be ready to launch Strainer demo mission to ISS as soon as November.
"A beginning is a very delicate time. Know then, that it is the year 10191. The known universe is ruled by the Padisha Emperor Shaddam IV, my father. In this time, Boeing is finally ready to launch Starliner and fulfill the prophecy that it one day will reach orbit."
@@Hykje "Unfortunately a new old issue was discovered and boeing will now launch next may for sure!"
You haven't mentioned which year... 😂
@@Hykje The debris must flow!
These big organizations & companies are no longer mission-focused and have lost their "knack".
Quite true. They are no longer the right stuff.
In a corner of Texas, Elon's quietly chuckling.
"If it's Boeing, I'm not going." I'm seeing more and more problems with Boeing airliners, their manufacturing processes, and of course Starliner. There are so many problems throughout the culture of the company, one wonders if they can reform and recover, or should they shut 'er down? As for Russia being the only way to the ISS, we still have Crew Dragon.
If it`s made by Boeing - We aint never going
Ouch that`s harsh! Funny but harsh. 🤣
NASA is far too risk averse right now, but it’s justified in the case of Starliner. With so many glitches and problems, Starliner has proven itself to be worthy of scrutiny. With the large delay in it being rolled out into service I’m surprised NASA didn’t revive the crewed Dream Chaser.
NASA is causing these problems to be insurmountable by not allowing design changes. Their standing orders are to work within what was already approved for passenger space flight. No deviation, even if it's now obviously needed.
Considering just how thin their budget is and how little control they have over what they get to spend it on, I don't really blame Nasa for being risk adverse. They're one of ( if not THE ) least funded Gov agencies out there, gotta be careful or they'll have to fund themselves with Patreon
Averse.
@@americandissident9062 - thank you
A U.S. astronaut flew to the ISS on a Soyuz just a couple of weeks ago. That's a weird thing about this war, we aren't enemies, just our respective bankers are.
I don't think the bankers are enemies. It's usually the troops doing the shooting and the drone bombing, as well as their delusional generals, who think in terms of friends and enemies.
The bankers just see opportunities and interest rates.
The first thing Boeing needs to do is get a divorce from their last merger partner, purge all of the management from the toxic partner, and try to bring itself back from the edge of 'Clown Land'. I fear one more tiny problem anywhere in the business will spell absolute doom for Boeing. Startup companies have a vision, older multi-merger companies tend to focus on the happiness of the stockholders, not the end product. Spinning off the in-house production of the 737 fuselages shows where the focus of the new merger was, cut costs and keep the stockholders grinning ear to ear.
word.
It's all greed and profits..Most all once great companies go this route. Boeing is going.....going!
Can't happen. The destruction of the capabilities, experience and culture of the original Boeing has been thorough, staff dismissed or lost and new hires only instilled in their new culture. It what happens when you don't understand how things work and focus on a single measure such as financial return.
@@michaelreid2329 I did say 'try'. Once you're in the grip of a black hole, there is no getting out alive.
I fear that if Starliner is allowed to continue. NASA will loose a crew with this death trap
* lose. Pls learn to spell.
Opps! I did a typo and put two " o " I guess that means I can't have an opinion.. Get over your self Greg
If I were an astronaut, I'd be saying " I ain't going"
SpaceX Dragon, or fogidaboudit.
Elon doesn't want nasa oversight or that shotty capsule.😅
Just because Boeing "used" to be so great doesn't mean that they "are"
Now it's too late for Starliner be cancelled. They should use it for cargo missions, collecting flight data until being Crew certified.
ISS won't live that long any more. And then, to private commercial stations; who would want to pay their price? And the "relieability" will result in secondary costs also....
No, that's just sunk cost fallacy, especially since they're planning to charge more for this than SpaceX ( already doing fine ) or Dream Chaser ( still got a ways to go, but then they haven't enjoyed anywhere near the same amount of support or funding as Boeing has - really nobody has ) It's garbage and spending more money on making it slightly more functional garbage is a waste of time and resources to prop up a failing company based solely on lobbying and nostalgia for what they once were.
@@MichaelWinter-ss6lx The issues with Starliner are related with it being Crew rated. If Boeing instead developed a cargo version, they could be by now gathering flight data.
Are NASA failing ? Starliner looks like a dead duck and the SLS, with the Orion capsule looks, non-viable due to heatshield and the astronomical cost. Should NASA just abandon building rockets and capsules for manned flight and leave it to the private sector ? Maybe NASA could just train the astronauts like a University.
This is endemic for NASA. Throwing good money after bad.
FOR SALE: job lot of 7x Atlas V N22 rockets, FAIRINGS NOT INCLUDED. Mild scuff marks, one of them has a slightly stiff oxygen valve. IN-PERSON COLLECTION ONLY.
It's like watching Ground Hog Day... the same thing over and over again.
I made the comment a few weeks ago when SpaceX moved the Dragon from one docking port to another so the Starliner could dock with the ISS that they should have waited until it was actually in the air and on the way because we KNOW that the odds aren't good that it would fly on schedule and the Dragon crew might be coming back home before it actually (if ever) launches.
What is really sad is that all the people involved in the Starliner who were paid all along to build this shoddy craft are STILL being paid and no heads have rolled. They don't seem to care that every delay costs more and more and shows incompetence in design and construction all through the build. Where is the accountability? When there is none....you get what we're seeing now.
I still believe that the most honorable solution would be to downgrade Starliner to a cargo spacecraft and use the already paid missions for cargo purposes, for which some degree of risk becomes more acceptable. This would allow to recover at least part of the costs, while continuing to fix the endless problems in operational activities without risking a crew, keeping eventually Starliner just as an emergency backup (improved, having getting through operational tests as a cargo) for Dragon 2 and waiting (hoping) for Dream Chaser becoming fully operational.
The 👻 ghost of McDonnell Douglas haunts Boeing senior management
Boeing's senior management IS McDonnell Douglas
@@MrGoesBoom Nah, they are simply the modern MBA CEO. Execs and board members will pay themselves in stock until they secure control of the board making their removal impossible. The only fix is to ban stock ownership by board members and execs. These people need to be employees working for the company, not owners working for themselves.
Calhoun was on the board since 2009 and worked with Mcnerny to cut corners to boost profits on paper. McNerny bailed 7 months before the first max test flight because they all knew it was going to have serious problems.
Calhoun wanted to be CEO, but knew the next CEO would deal with max crashes. So they used Muilenburg as a well paid fall guy. Calhoun became CEO in 2020 and immediately started cutting corners again after the company had agreed not to do this. These people control too much of the company because defying all logic, calhoun was voted back on the board 5 days ago. Actual investors get no say. Investment companies investing other people's money, execs, and board members can do whatever they want under the current system.
This starliner launch should be unmanned
Once again, Jordan's insights prove correct. Bravo!
Sir, the next time you are in Huntsville and need a room, let me know. I have a spare bedroom and I am very close to Marshall, Blue Origin, and Dynetics (1 Mile away). Cheers
Unfortunately, NASA said "just go for it" in both the Challenger and Columbia tragedies, when there was CLEAR evidence of SERIOUS likelihood of extreme risk to the crews, and as a result, 14 people lost their lives. The space shuttle was an engineering nightmare, and it's a wonder that many more people did not lose their lives. Space exploration will always involve risks. But you have to decide what is acceptable and what isn't. And Starliner isn't.
Should be called "StarLinger".
If Sierra Nev. WAS SMART, they should have kept working on the human version of DChaser. They could have gotten INTERNATIONAL FUNDING from other countries in EXCHANGE to let these countries USE the vehicle for their space agencies 🤔
There is no way they would have a human rated Dream Chaser by 2026. They may not even have an approved cargo rated Dream Chaser by 2025. If they had a human rated Dream Chaser, they would probably not have a rocket to launch it on.
Remember the 1969 movie “Marooned”? They sent on a Titan IIIC booster rocket carrying an experimental U.S. Air Force lifting body, the X-RV. Bears a sticking resemblance to the Dream Chaser.
If you haven’t seen it please do.
Thank you for turning the background music down! I noticed the improvement a few episodes ago but I wanted to wait to make sure it wasn't a fluke to say thanks.
Did you watch to the end? The music got loud and intrusive in the last few minutes!
@ceejay0137 Yes, I watched the whole thing. A short duration of loud music is still a lot better than not being able to hear him the whole time.
The board at Boeing have a lot to answer for, they should be arrested.
If a disaster happens to a Crew Dragon, just send the least used other Crew Dragon whilst the disaster is investigated. It has such a history of being such a capable and reliable craft that a failure of one does not implicate all of them, unlike all other one-off space vehicles until now.
“We thought kerbal space was the design software’
-- Boeing
"50% refund"??? That's happening in our lifetime!
As the issues with the Boeing 737 MAX has shown, Boeing's main interest is not safety, it's profit. If NASA is smart, and I believe they are, they will can Starliner and hopefully get a crewed version of Dream Chaser up and running in the not too distant future. That would be a better second option. ...Hey, I wrote this before I saw the end of your video when you made the same comment.
Why do people say these things? Default Marxist indoctrination? Too much Dickens? The issue with Boeing's management is one of company inertia. Even the most aloof manager knows that you don't maximize profits by consciously shunning safety and were they to ever forget, their legal staff is there to remind them. The core issue is in the way the public/private game has been played for decades. There are many perverse incentives inherent to the cost plus contracting model, as seen with SLS most notably. True, Starliner itself is not a cost-plus contract, but all of Boeing's management structure has evolved in the midst of that business model. It's all they've known when it comes to contracts with the government ever since WWII, and no company that massive can change on a dime. Adjustment is going to be painful, if they even survive.
Starliner has become a MONEY PIT.
Oh, there were plenty of reasons to suppose the Space Shuttle wasn't bullet proof. I remember the discussions centering around the disaster in 1986 and there were people with lots of concern prior to that disaster. It wasn't so surprising to some of the engineers.
Remember that spongebob episode where Mr. Krabs eats that rotten patty despite warnings its gone bad? Then the very next scene he is being rushed to the hospital. Yeah Boeing is Mr. Krabs and the rotten patty is McDonnell Douglas.
If I were an astronaut?
There would be no way that I would risk my life on that vessel
STARLINER IS THIS GENERATION'S APOLLO 1 IN WAITING.
NOT sure what makes NASA so much confident in BOEING when their planes are falling from the skies
Actually they aren't falling out of the sky... they are power diving!
Watch for NASA to officially sign a contract for Sierra Nevada Aerospace to build a man-rated version of Dream Chaser soon.
Fascinating content,kept me on edge of my seat and very few podcasts can do that anymore, but please I am so curious,were you an actual astronaut?
*Statute of limitations?* - A refund would be great for funding other projects, but is it even possible for NASA to demand a refund? I believe that the statute of limitations for federal contracts is 6 years, so Boeing could potentially shut down the project, state that the contract is over 6 years old, and just walk away.
Boing is going to profitize itself out of business!!!
May your word be in God´s ear!
If we had new NASA in the 60's, we'd have dissolved NASA due to lack of success and perpetual avoidable failures.
Angry, you are 100% right on Starliner and Dreamchaser!
It amazes me that Apollo flew to the moon and back mostly successfully back in the 60's & early 70's but now, with more technology available, its become a real problem to get back to the moon.
More computers and electronics equals more complexity which is bad. Actually 1960s technology is ideal for spaceflight. It's all dead simple and can't go wrong.
@@user-lv2ky4ts2l Good point. Ships today are exponentially more complicated than the ones of yesteryear with the cell phone computers. 🚀
@@user-lv2ky4ts2l It's more about having less safety, there's was a pretty good chance that they could have failed the lunar missions, but the alternative was to lose to the soviets, so they went with it. Nowadays they're too worried about safety, which is definetely hindering the development of soem vehicles, you can't improve if you don't allow yourself to fail
@@rizizum its a miracle nobody was killed or lost in space in these apollo missions when they skimped on safety and expected these men to put their lives on the line for their country.
Cancel the contract and give the funding to Sierra Space.
This reminds me of a video I saw from the late 70s about the space shuttle. At one point the know-it-all narrator said "the shuttle can't do that. Not won't. Cant."
There are 15 whistle blowers coming forward on this. OH WAIT: 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8...
Astronauts should not be brainwashed. They should refuse to climb aboard this disaster waiting to happen.
Common, Boeing is making this. It's not like the doors will blow off mid flight or something.
😆
The refund will never happen. The US is trying to keep Boeing afloat and I think we are stuck with SL.
Shame all that money didn't go into crewed Dream Chaser
Our government needs to get their shit together
And people wonder how far behind we are in technology compared to other Alien races. WAY behind.
You forgot about what came out about the Starliner heat shield. That it probably wouldn't survive a moon return being that it would have to be able to work at the increased speed of 25,000 MPh vs 17,000 MPh,
We are all hoping that they put all the bolts in to hold the door on, 😄
We all knew this would happen . I used to have a leader say "sure as bread and honey will make you poop. ".
Boeing needs a perfect unmanned test of starliner before proceeding.
"Have a good flight, Commander."
Very insightful
What sound does the Starliner make?
BOING
BOING
not a typo - just a ribbing...
Should have gone with Dream Chaser instead. Boeing must have some powerful lobbyists.
Some retired Boeing executives with golden parachutes would consider this a success.
Maybe they should have to take the next flight or forfeit their golden parachutes!
How was this imminent disaster ever human rated to begin with??
Don't forget about the parachute cords that can fail when only two chutes open...
Starliner Is The New Ocean Gate Sub
Who on earth would set a foot on a contraption built by Boeing? NASA seems to have learned from Boeing’s recent quality (read cutting corners) issues.
They could use it for supplying lemons to the ISS ... (Apollo 1 ref there for the cognoscenti)
Great video
5:10 I can see this, you would never get me to fly on it! 😱
Why only 50% back? They didn’t fulfill the contract so they should return all of the money
Difficult to imagine that the creator of the 747 and starliner are the same company
It’s not even close to the same company it used to be.
Thank you for proposing the alternative of Dream Chaser . What would happen to Boeing and ULA if NASA followed thru with a complete shutdown of Starliner and demanding a "50% refund" ?
There were plenty of data on tile damage on the orbiter from ice/foam shedding on the ET, and o-ring erosion on the SRB's before _Challenger_ was lost. Normalization of deviance.
The Shuttle had flown more times yes, but it had issues from the very beginning that NASA covered up until it literally blew up in their face live on National TV. Crew Dragon has had really no issues since it was redesigned after the pad test explosion.
How about they just launch this Starliner one more time without Astronauts and see how it goes.
And have Boeing pay for the launch.
Why has no one postulated a simplified Orion vehicle for LEO missions as an alternative to Crew Dragon or Starliner? And the fact that Dreamchaser will soon (hopefully) be coming on line, I don't see the need to push the Puten button quite yet. SpaceX has proven it's reliability with Dragon and Falcon (but 'space is hard', and accidents will inevitably happen), and I have faith in Sierra that Dreamchaser will be a success. So Starliner's demise will be a setback but cutting the cord now is not only warranted but required. Support the stuff that's working.
Likely the main issue there was timing. Orion was conceived in the 'flexible path' era, with no singular mission driving the particulars of its design. It had to be deep-space capable and support a large crew, but with no concrete goal materializing along the way other parameters were left undefined. Whatever it actually ends up doing, it will have been overengineered to do it plus a bunch of other things it will likely never do. Winnebago syndrome.
A software glitch causing the Starliner to falsely think it's in the right orbit sounds like the same software glitch that caused the 737 Max to falsely think it's Angle of Attack (AOA) is too steep so it trims nose-down.
They better check the doors to make sure they have all of the bolts installed and tightened!
Perhaps we could call it "MuseumLiner" seeing how it will be featured at the (Final Days of Boeing) exhibit up in Dayton.
The Chinese have no problem getting to Tiangong, their space station. In a pinch, maybe they could give you a lift. ;-)
June 1 is now the new launch date for Starliner. That gives you more than a week to make videos calling for the capsule to be scrapped before it can launch anybody, regardless of how unrealistic that is.
Wow amazing that they can't get it right.
In the long run single provider is not a great idea. Tricky situation.
The problem with it being a government contract is that it _is_ a government contract that guarantees Boeing those six flights. If NASA were to cancel it, they'd be sued by Boeing for the entire program cost plus damages.
Right now i think they might have a problem finding anyone that will crew it!
Well said, when your bottom line isn't safety but instead is "the bottom line" in Chicago then it isn't safe to fly!