I had a Catalina 25 many years ago on a very large inland Lake that experienced violent Thunderstorms and on several occasions, while tied to the dock had to get off asap as I could hear and visually see blue arching from the top of the mast as the storm clouds approached . I was telling a friend, who was an electrician about these experiences and he suggested I use a battery jumper cable to give the static electricity a route to ground by clipping on end to a stay and the other overboard. I wasn't intended as a path for a lightning strike but rather as path to ground to reduce the accumulating electrical potential of the boat versus the atmospheric charge generated in the Thunderstorm. From that point whenever leaving the boat I would clip the cable to the backstay and dangling the other end in the water. From that point onward while onboard I never again experienced the arching from the top of the mast. The point of this is to reduce and much as possible the buildup of opposing charge of the boat relative to the storm clouds. On the cat I would use one on each hull.
That’s the point of many lightning systems. It’s not to make a path to water easier for lightning to run, it’s about making your boat the same as the surroundings. 1 cable won’t dissipate a strike but it can make your boat more “invisible”.
If the mast is constantly grounded, it becomes the highest point above water that is at ground potential and is therefore more attractive to a lightning strike than the surrounding water, but will discharge static built up on the rig. The ideal way is to isolate the rig through surge protection to ground such that the rig floats at atmospheric potential unless the voltage exceeds that safe for humans, and only then does a spark jump the gap and discharge the rig safely to ground plating. Then the rig slowly charges back up thereby making it less attractive than surrounding area. This only works if all systems in a rig are powered through their own galvanic isolated supply (battery or isolated DC-DC *converter*), and grounded through surge protection and charged by it's own solar or isolated DC-DC *charger*. Wireless wind and radar instruments save you having to isolate data lines from an NMEA or SeaTalk bus instruments, antennas should have a surge arrestor connected to the ground plate and their radio equipment (VHF, AIS) powered from the isolated supply, same for mast lights on the isolated supply. This way the rig sits in the goldilocks voltage range, rarely sitting at ground potential, or high enough potential to initiate a spark in air from static charge that ionises it and creates a plasma and conductive path.
Interesting. Never owned a boat probably never will. Are we talking about being apart of the circuit as opposed to being a part from the circuit. Not an Electrician either.
Lightning rods for houses are no bigger then the cable Tom added and they work wonders. Adding a path for less resistance is always the correct thing to do when it comes to lightning. Personally I would add one to both sides of the boat. I'm not sure about the aluminum if it would be worse or better then a copper cable. I'm also a big supporter of disconnecting sensitive electronics from the power system when not in use.
Also make sure to isolate any of the boat's wiring from the grounded conductors so as to prevent current induction between them in the instance of a lightning strike.
Jamie cracks me the F up ! Everything he does , he just lets out that laugh and gets me going every time . Nice to see Nerea and Jordan again . I remember them & Tom from the Sylfa crew . A great bunch . I'm looking forward to see what shenanigans you guys get into next . BTW Collin , great job on all the troubleshooting of the electronics
The cable on the side of the boat will encourage a lightning strike as you have created a better path to ground ... your only solution to lightning is to insulate the air above your boat using something like the CMCE system. The main thing you need to remember is that lightning strikes START from the ground - a streamer (a path of ionised gas) will travel upward from any spike (point of electrical field focus) on your boat, reducing the resistance of the path to ground and eventually encouraging lightning to jump from the cloud to the streamer and then down to your boat. I'm happy to get on a zoom call with you to talk you through the physics of what's going on here.
Not all lightning starts from the earth. It all depends on the distribution of charge. There can be earth to air, air to earth, air to air, and in some rare instances earth to earth. It depends on which surface has the most electrons stripped away. Cheers! Faithfully, James
The tortilla challenge was Hilarious. You guys are great you’re quite the electrician Collin specially, when you gotta read a manual in a different language incredible you guys stay safe out there take it easy on Jamie he doesn’t like bees..
It's nice to see Nerea again. Jordan was no surprise. It's kind of amazing how close-knit the sailing YT channels are. e.g. I've seen Lizbef on M&J Sailing. It's all great fun!
The way lightning protection was explained to me was. It's not to give the lightning a path. It's to dissipate the negative charge around the boat so you're less likely to get struck. This is exactly how building systems work. As you know there's nothing that can withstand a direct hit to dissipate lightning. Love everything you guys do watched every episode most of them twice.
You don't have to outrun the hungry bear you just need to outrun your fellow hikers. The 5% (arbitrary numbers) most negatively charged masts in the marina are the 95% most likely targets of the direct hits. That being said getting hit by lightning (attacked by bears) makes great entertainment (the revenant, yellowstone, etc.) And chances to upgrade electronics. At least Colin can monitize his "bear attack".
Great comments. The same idea as why you run grounds to the through hulls on a glass boat. Marina electrical systems start to corrode the minute they are installed. Shedding any positive and static charge to ground keeps you the least likely to be hit. Like the bear analogy, you don't have to be the fastest, just not last. cool running
Fuzzy Ball lightning protection is the answer from Lightning Masters installed at the highest point of the vessel dissipates the negative Ions making your vessel invisible to lightning...
Absolutely brilliant to see Jordan and Nerea together again on the water!! Together they are an awesome pair... Oso harro zutaz Nerea, txalupa batera itzultzeagatik! Animo!
Colin, Like I mentioned in your last episode, disconnect high cost electronics power and communication cables whenever possible using quick disconnects wherever practical. I have had kids toys that have no batteries installed start playing music when lightning strikes close by. What happens is the capacitors get charged by electrons in the air and activate the device but it is not enough to burn out the circuit boards.
OMG, Jordan and Nerea! I'm so glad you're back on one channel together again! I can only hope you stay here for a while. I was a High Voltage Test Technician. I'm retired now, I'm with the group that believes the more paths you provide the lightning to go to ground the less damage it will cause inside the boat. Do I have proof? No. But I've seen very large power transformers destroyed by lightning strikes that were miles away just because they lacked lightning arrestors and proper grounding. Lightning is going to find a way to ground. It can go Pluckys way and blow a hole through your prop shaft and or give it a path. It doesn't have to be a heavy cable either because there isn't one big enough to carry the all the potential current anyway. I think a cruiser could get away with a conductive paint from one of the chain plates to below the water line. The lightning will take the path of least resistance and once it starts to flash to ground all that's left is maybe a burn mark on your hull.
So so good to see the girls! Absolutely LOVE Jordan and her BFF from that "other sailboat "!! Epic episode Colin. Laughing hysterically, to puking lol. Love y'all. From 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
I would recommend a solid copper rod from the top of the mast to the water, path of least resistance.....not a master electrician, but it works for houses...worth a try! Good luck and good work! God bless!
I think you are correct about the cable if the boat gets struck it won’t help much, It may work as more of a preventer though as it will tie the mask to the same potential as the water and may reduce the chance of getting struck,
Colin, I'm an electrician by trade. The reason you get hit is because of the difference in potential. Your battery cable in the water can help. Nothing can stop you from getting hit but you can take measures to lessen your chances. All metal parts should be bonded together. That bond should go to a large plate in the water. This will help equalize the potential around your boat. Any isolated piece of metal like a mast or a stay should be monded together and tied to the plate in your keel.
Hi Parley, the cable on the shrouds will work, but you should do that to all the shrouds stay points and the mast with a double cable directly into the water to put the top of the mast at the same static charge as the surrounding air, isolate all your boat equipment and electronic stuff from earth, remember there are about 1.4 -2Gw of static electricity in a strike and lighting strikes up not down. PS. Make the cable with big jumper clamps, so you can easily remove them when not needed.
Hi Colin in construction underwater concrete pouring we use in the Netherlands a underwater disconnect module and Rod for those kind of lightning strike so our divers don’t get electrocuted during the proces there literary small in concept to protect a boat a human ore anything as also wiring . Regards Ramon ,
Fit Dc surge protection on the boat and double pole isolators to isolate live and negative. And run lightning protection earth strap in copper from the top to the water.
The electrical outlet incidents were classic Jamie he is such a gentle, imperturbably sanguine, likeable character! That he had a bowl of tucker in front of him next images he was in was another classic Jamie moment.
I was working in an air traffic control tower alone one night when it was struck with a spectacular lightning strike. Ball lightning was racing around the guardrail on the walkway outside the tower windows. St. Elmo's fire, a blue flame 6" tall and flickering sprung from atop the consoles all the way around the cab, then suddenly after a minute or two, it was gone. We had way more electronics gear than you do, radars, radios, assorted CRT displays. We lost nothing. Didn't even blow a breaker. We had a large grounding cable running down the outside of the tower all the way from the guard rail which was cabled to the antennae on the roof. Grounding cables work. Yeah, it's a lot of electricity but it will take the path of least resistance. Greetings from San Jose, Costa Rica. Pilsen is better than Imperial cerveza..
Hey Steve! Jackie and I were just talking about you! Give us a shout one of these days! We just bought a new 50’ Cat and will be sailing ⛵️ the world soon! 🍻🍻🍻🤙🏽
@@nkdave747 That's great, Dave, I moved to Costa Rica and got married. My daughter is 13 now. Your kids must be all grown up now.I think about my old crew once in awhile. I've lost contact with most. Great to hear from you. Say hi to Jackie for me.
If it was mine I would design a way to do a disconnect and isolate the sensitive electronic devices from a lightening strike. Yes this may take some time but in long run the savings would be worth it.
Try a copper wire grounding rod to the earth bed when you anchor that is connected to your boat. You need a path for the strikes to be captured with copper cable at the tippy top of the main mast attached to the boat that has enough temporary cable connected to a grounding rod. Not unlike your anchor is there a way to connect to this?
This is amazing!! What you've accomplished... Not only fixing your vessel.. but again fixing the lightening strike is constant work... An you guys do the work . Making it took easier than it is . As well as show the hardwork a lightening strike can cause.. it's no joke!! As we surely see!! Thanks for sharing your lives with us.✌🏼💗😊⛵
Colin, The battery cable as a ground will help distribute the current that is already being distributed through every other piece of conduit that is connected to or bridged across some sort of capacitive component to the water/grounded shore circuit. I may lower the current load passing through the electronic circuits, but in reality it is lightning that we are talking about. It may have traveled over a mile or more already and it wasn't slowing down. Your best chance is just that; chance it to luck. Placing a cable, from your rigging into the water, that has a relatively large cross sectional area, may help to some degree, but it may invite some electrolysis that may do more harm than good. All the best to you. Thank you for sharing. Cheers! Blue Skies! Faithfully, James
To conduct a strike safely to “ground” (on a boat this means to the water), create a low-resistance path from the highest point on your boat to a metal grounding plate in contact with the water. Start with a solid half-inch-diameter steel or bronze rod elevated six to 12 inches above every other object on the boat. Hope this helps buddy stay safe wish I was with all y’all
Haven't seen any of your vids in awhile.nice seeing one again.yes grounding is a good idea.all houses built in north America are grounded.grounding boats are a good idea as well.try installing fusable links on all your equipment.it should save your expensive electronics
I think the ground cable in the water actually ATTRACTS lightening! Your offering an easy ground point for the lightening bolt to ground out which is what it is searching for. This is why cars (on rubber tires) do not get hit with lightening often and are a safe spot to be in a storm. They are not grounded because of the rubber / air tires. By making a better ground on the boat, your asking for trouble.
I think the cable going into the water could help. Electricity will take the path of least resistance. So hopefully it will travel down the shroud and directly into the water. It's better then havig the electrons traveling through all the wires of the boat hunting for away to ground.
Unfortunately, a direct strike is so much voltage that it won’t just travel down one of the rigging wires and into the ocean (even if grounded). It’s just way too much electricity coming in all at once. It’s going to go down the mast, all the rigging, the railing, through the electrical system and eventually finding it’s way out.
Morena! Nice to have a positive video again. Things are on the mend. Back home here we’re struggling with flooding so thoughts go out to those worse of than us. Kia kaha brothers and sisters!
Bolting the steel piece (carpenter square) onto your chain plate will damage the chain plate. It will cause the stainless to begin to corrode, worse case leading to failure, best case, accelerated deterioration.
Also, if you take the power for the remote from the main positive cable at the windlass solenoid, you will be able to use your windlass regardless if engine is running or not. In my opinion, that could save your ass one day. I have rescued 57 boats from sinking, and windlass operation played a key roll in being able to save them. Never know when you may need essentials equipment to function,keep it simple.
5:20 That is almost exactly what my cousin did with his Beneteau 27 up on Long Island Sound to mitigate any lightning strikes.. As other's have said it's not so much to dissipate the effect of the strike itself, as it is to put the higher points of the boat at the same electrical potential as the ground (water) around it. No, it won't prevent ALL damage, but it should at least HELP. And it's a cheap prophylactic LOL Love seeing the ladies, especially Jordan, causing trouble and making everything fun!
I was in a boathouse with 4" steel pipe grounding rod when it was struck by lightning. Charge went straight into the ground with no damage at all. I vote to keep the conduits. One on each hull. More contact into water though.
Nice to see you lot can still smile and laugh with all the horrible crap that has happened to your boat. Best of luck to you getting it all back together.
I think your right about the amount of power but as you said that wire cant hurt and if it even helps save one piece of gear in the future it will be worth it
I've worked in wireless communications for 35 years. The objective to reduce the chances of lightning strikes is to disipate static charge through a single point ground. The cable in the water can help but obviously not practical compared to a solid external anode below the waterline. Static charge disipation is commonly seen through electrolysis and degregation of your sacrificial anodes. If everything is properly grounded in this way, the ground potential is the same at the top of the mast (tower in my experience 200' - 1000') as the surrounding earth or sea. This effectively makes the mast invisible to lightning. Lightning cannot be channeled, if struck it will infuse everything conductible as it seeks a path to earth.
When I weld on a vehicle. I use a spike guard connected to the battery to stop power serge spiking the electronics. Just a they, but u will need a big one . Great content . From Hawkesbay Nz.
Lightning Strikes Land strikes experienced: I lived in Mammoth Lakes, CA for a number of years and experienced numerous lightning strikes and their effects on electronics. I was in the business of manufacturing small computers and related systems. The problem with these lightning events in that area is the lack of good grounds. The water is so pure from snow runoff that it does not conduct electricity. When the main electric distribution lines in the Owens Valley were hit by a strike the flow seemed to congregate at the nearest mass usage population area. I would routinely be called out to replace major components. I quickly found that in most cases the grounds were faulty. In my research into the problem I found one company that advertised a very good surge suppresser, PanaMax. I experimented with these units widely with excellent results. As a side hustle to my computer business I created a Visitor Information system (A public computer in a nice cabinet with a database of video and text for travelers in the very early days of the Internet) My systems were in the big national parks, Yosemite, Death Valley, well as Mammoth Lakes. One memorable event happened at Mammoth Mountain. I got a call from one of my clients at the administration office at the main lodge at the base of the main ski area. They reported that they had been hit with a lightning strike and none of their office equipment was working. I spoke with a person on site and he stated that a large bolt of lightning was observed hitting the upper gondola cables 2500 feet above the lodge and that a 6 ft ball of electricity rolled down the cables and struck the main lodge with a thunderous explosion. Luckily nobody was hurt, but nothing seemed to work anymore. I examined various pieces of equipment and found most of it fried. They had $40,000-$100,000 in damage. Laser Printers, Fax Machines, Telephone Systems, & Computer Systems were all damaged. I noted that none of this plug in equipment was plugged into any surge suppression devices. I explained my thoughts on what might have prevented this loss, faulty grounds and surge suppression, and told them to seek out a proper electrical engineer to get answers. Since one of my Visitor Information Systems was in the lobby of the Mammoth Mountain Hotel across the parking lot I proceed over there to see if my $7,500 system had survived. I talked with the manager who said that their IBM reservation computer was fried along with their telephone system and most of their other electric equipment did not survive as well. I went to my Visitor Information System in the lobby and found the system dark. I looked at the 2 plug PanaMax surge suppressor and found the case partially melted. I removed the suppressor and checked the power outlet and found that it had normal voltage. I replaced the PanaMax unit with another one and voila, my system resumed operation with no other issues. The $50 suppressor had taken the full hit from the lightning bolt and saved me replacing $3,000-&4,000 in components. PanaMax gave me a new suppressor for free as part of their guarantee. The Mammoth Mountain office manager later told me that they hired an electrical engineering firm out of Los Angeles to assess their electrical system. The firm found the common problem in the area, poor grounds due to the purity of the water. They drilled. 1 ft diameter hole 100 feet into the earth close to the building and inserted a solid copper rod to depth and packed the hole with salt and water. They then used this to ground the building electrical system. I explained my use and results from my use of surge suppressors to the office manager and they purchased many for their new equipment. On another occasion, the “Toulome Meadows” visitor center called me and said that my Visitor Information System was down due to a direct a lightning direct strike to the metal roof of their 100 year old building. When I installed the system there I had crawled below the building and ran a separate ground from the electrical outlet to a water pipe. That unit also had a telephone connection that I used to update data as well as dial out to lodging for visitors. When I arrived the staff said all of their electronic systems were down. I looked behind my system cabinet and again found the PanaMax unit melted. This PanaMax had the same suppression on the telephone connections as well. I replaced the suppressor and checked the power source and plugged in my system which came back to life “happy as a clam”. This $75 PanaMax unit saved me another $3,000-$4,000 and PanaMax replaced that unit as well for free. PanaMax no longer sells equipment under that name, but their shunting technology still exists and has been improved. Suppression on a boat in a salt water environment may be a wild card. Perhaps suppression in major electrical lines and devices on the boat could help in keeping such losses at a minimum. Lance Morrison lance@wccnv.us
Cool to know you are on the move again. Re lightning; if all of your stays and shrouds are grounded to the sea have you not created a faraday cage? Then again, that massive power of a lightening strike!...
Some experts say that the boat has a charge that builds up to attract the lightning and by reducing the charge will help.. a static reducing element on the top of the mast helps...I don't know if you can test it...I know our Cape Dory wasn't hit but the boat 150 ft away was...
That Tortilla challenge was hilarious! I'm not an electrician but we live up on a high point and anytime we have large thunderstorm come thru, we simply unplug our expensive crap. I mean yea we don't have TV, Internet/wifi, PC's, game systems, etc but they usually are over in a few hours or by morning in our case usually. I know this one happened while you all were away but some simple waterproof disconnects could help on some of the expensive stuff like nav and even the Inverter. Now the Battery systems is another one, may just have to keep a spare since it's all controlled by that smart box thing. There are 12v lightening protection things, could try one on a few electronics to see if they help. They are usually sacrificial. May not protect against a direct strike like yours but could help if you were like your neighbor boat in the marina!
So, + - 300 million volts in lightning. Kilo amps if it all hits. No insulating transformer or lightning rods will protect sensitive electronics. 400 volt can arc several centimeters in high amp switchgear. You may try CMCE as suggested below. Haven't seen any reviews but lightning protection is important to try to mitigate damage to more than just electronics.
😅 hehe crack up .. the tortilla challenge… yes it is good to have a Laugh now and then…I’m really enjoying all your videos bro 👍 . I hope you get all your electric’s on as well… good luck to all of you’s 🤘🏻
So the work goes on repairing the lightning damage. I am so sorry this happened again. I wouldn’t want the job of cleaning up the mess with the rotten rice. I think a mask may have been a bit of a help. Well done! It was fun to see you enjoying your time with the girls. I really admire Jordon, and Nerea is always good for a laugh! So happy you are back sailing. Please stay safe!
Slow-mo videos of lightning strikes I've seen has shown that the strikes comprise of lightning coming down, but also rising up from the ground, particularly from sharp pointy bits, like mastheads. So a direct ground to the water to disapiate the energy, as others have suggested, sounds like a good idea.
Hi C, I am an electrical and instromentation E&I in mining Western Australia. I think the battery lead is a great idea, we have massive steel fixed plants, 3 or 4 stories high, we get hit by lightning 🌩 a lot, we do exactly that, earth/ground everything top to bottom, It minimises damage.
You have to have a system of fuse breakers that all the lines going down the center of the mast ae radio and wind. Then do a steel thing on top of the mast and connet it to the cables to the plates and lines from the plates to in the water.
and if you travel through a lot of rain use rainx on your windows it helps by making the water bead up and roll off and in most cases if the wind is blowing just a little it will just push it off
The goal should be to make you boat the same potential as the surrounding water. Lightening is hunting for the largest potential difference. Not knowing how your boat is bonded, the cable to the water might help.
Yes. Fiberglass hulls are an insulator, so a dedicated path to ground is needed on them during lightning storms. Also make sure to isolate any of the boat's wiring from the grounded conductors so as to prevent current induction between them in the instance of a lightning strike.
When you got bees moving in the easy way to shoo them off is just crank the music. They want their hive in a quiet nook, so a nearby party will send them packing if they haven't set up shop yet.
Anchor chain channel: line the track with a 1/4” piece of white or black starboard plastic. That will protect the channel/fiberglass, and it will also deaden the sound of the chain banging around on the fiberglass.
Colin, the facts are: The cable will help divert the bulk of the lightening hit although from the lightening rod down to the water needs to be isolated from the boat. Tying it back to the boat is NOT good. With that, the thing that's killing your electronics is the massive EMF field.
In theory, the cable would work just like ground rod, instead of the current travelling through your entire electrical system to find ground, it will take the path of least resistance through tom's ground cable. And like you said, it can't hurt, maybe upgrade to stainless for aesthetics, lol.
Hi Colin This is just my thoughts on lightning (I am no expert). Some years back I used to sell Critec Lightning protection devices so I have seen the incredible destruction lightning can do. So here goes: - Lightning is a (VHF) Very High Frequency event. VHF creates lots of EMF which crowds the current to the extreme outer surface of any solid conductor. This means that only the outer skin of big chunky cables carries lightning current (Note that VHF waveguides are mostly hollow). So if you want to conduct lightning safely to the water use large diameter thin wall Copper pipes. - Lightning does not want to go around corners. I have seen lightning pass directly through thick concrete walls ignoring the lightning strap routed over top of the wall. Create a direct path from lightning strike location to ground. If possible, surround this path with a grounded screen. The screen will limit the EMF pulse radiating into the rest of your boat (Create something like a big coaxial cable). -Put everything inside your microwave.
The thing about lightning is that it makes its own channel for the current, if you have a tempting route for it to take, it likely will. There will be plasma (arc) channel as well, hopefully around the easy route. If your boat electronics are not grounded to the sea but electrically floating, they shouldn't be the easy route to the sea, but they very likely are something you don't want to be in contact with when the lighting strikes.
I had a Catalina 25 many years ago on a very large inland Lake that experienced violent Thunderstorms and on several occasions, while tied to the dock had to get off asap as I could hear and visually see blue arching from the top of the mast as the storm clouds approached . I was telling a friend, who was an electrician about these experiences and he suggested I use a battery jumper cable to give the static electricity a route to ground by clipping on end to a stay and the other overboard. I wasn't intended as a path for a lightning strike but rather as path to ground to reduce the accumulating electrical potential of the boat versus the atmospheric charge generated in the Thunderstorm. From that point whenever leaving the boat I would clip the cable to the backstay and dangling the other end in the water. From that point onward while onboard I never again experienced the arching from the top of the mast. The point of this is to reduce and much as possible the buildup of opposing charge of the boat relative to the storm clouds. On the cat I would use one on each hull.
That’s the point of many lightning systems. It’s not to make a path to water easier for lightning to run, it’s about making your boat the same as the surroundings. 1 cable won’t dissipate a strike but it can make your boat more “invisible”.
Good advice. It’s pretty unsettling to see Saint Elmo’s Fire (blue electrical plasma) dancing around at the top of the mast.
If the mast is constantly grounded, it becomes the highest point above water that is at ground potential and is therefore more attractive to a lightning strike than the surrounding water, but will discharge static built up on the rig. The ideal way is to isolate the rig through surge protection to ground such that the rig floats at atmospheric potential unless the voltage exceeds that safe for humans, and only then does a spark jump the gap and discharge the rig safely to ground plating. Then the rig slowly charges back up thereby making it less attractive than surrounding area.
This only works if all systems in a rig are powered through their own galvanic isolated supply (battery or isolated DC-DC *converter*), and grounded through surge protection and charged by it's own solar or isolated DC-DC *charger*. Wireless wind and radar instruments save you having to isolate data lines from an NMEA or SeaTalk bus instruments, antennas should have a surge arrestor connected to the ground plate and their radio equipment (VHF, AIS) powered from the isolated supply, same for mast lights on the isolated supply. This way the rig sits in the goldilocks voltage range, rarely sitting at ground potential, or high enough potential to initiate a spark in air from static charge that ionises it and creates a plasma and conductive path.
Interesting. Never owned a boat probably never will. Are we talking about being apart of the circuit as opposed to being a part from the circuit. Not an Electrician either.
Jamies laugh always cracks me up! Happy that he is back!
What's app reply looks like spam to me. I'd be careful if I were you.
Lightning rods for houses are no bigger then the cable Tom added and they work wonders. Adding a path for less resistance is always the correct thing to do when it comes to lightning. Personally I would add one to both sides of the boat. I'm not sure about the aluminum if it would be worse or better then a copper cable. I'm also a big supporter of disconnecting sensitive electronics from the power system when not in use.
Also make sure to isolate any of the boat's wiring from the grounded conductors so as to prevent current induction between them in the instance of a lightning strike.
Just a bee swarm sign of good luck and prosperity. Should move on!
Jamie cracks me the F up ! Everything he does , he just lets out that laugh and gets me going every time . Nice to see Nerea and Jordan again . I remember them & Tom from the Sylfa crew . A great bunch . I'm looking forward to see what shenanigans you guys get into next . BTW Collin , great job on all the troubleshooting of the electronics
The cable on the side of the boat will encourage a lightning strike as you have created a better path to ground ... your only solution to lightning is to insulate the air above your boat using something like the CMCE system.
The main thing you need to remember is that lightning strikes START from the ground - a streamer (a path of ionised gas) will travel upward from any spike (point of electrical field focus) on your boat, reducing the resistance of the path to ground and eventually encouraging lightning to jump from the cloud to the streamer and then down to your boat.
I'm happy to get on a zoom call with you to talk you through the physics of what's going on here.
This is correct answer.
Not all lightning starts from the earth. It all depends on the distribution of charge. There can be earth to air, air to earth, air to air, and in some rare instances earth to earth. It depends on which surface has the most electrons stripped away.
Cheers!
Faithfully,
James
There was a demo at the boston science museum with regards to lightning and this is the correct answer.
This is true from my antenna doctor friends.
You should be able to get lightning protectors to put on your coax to your marine radio and anchor light.
The tortilla challenge was Hilarious. You guys are great you’re quite the electrician Collin specially, when you gotta read a manual in a different language incredible you guys stay safe out there take it easy on Jamie he doesn’t like bees..
He hates getting "Bitten" by bees hahahaha
specially when they come out of the nest
that cracked me up
and Colins face said it all
{:-) PAV UK
It's nice to see Nerea again. Jordan was no surprise. It's kind of amazing how close-knit the sailing YT channels are. e.g. I've seen Lizbef on M&J Sailing. It's all great fun!
Jordan is a bit of a legend
The way lightning protection was explained to me was.
It's not to give the lightning a path. It's to dissipate the negative charge around the boat so you're less likely to get struck. This is exactly how building systems work.
As you know there's nothing that can withstand a direct hit to dissipate lightning.
Love everything you guys do watched every episode most of them twice.
You don't have to outrun the hungry bear you just need to outrun your fellow hikers. The 5% (arbitrary numbers) most negatively charged masts in the marina are the 95% most likely targets of the direct hits. That being said getting hit by lightning (attacked by bears) makes great entertainment (the revenant, yellowstone, etc.) And chances to upgrade electronics. At least Colin can monitize his "bear attack".
Kinda like spitting in her face Before getting hit with the tortilla !
Great comments. The same idea as why you run grounds to the through hulls on a glass boat. Marina electrical systems start to corrode the minute they are installed. Shedding any positive and static charge to ground keeps you the least likely to be hit. Like the bear analogy, you don't have to be the fastest, just not last. cool running
Fuzzy Ball lightning protection is the answer from Lightning Masters installed at the highest point of the vessel dissipates the negative Ions making your vessel invisible to lightning...
I respect that theory
Absolutely brilliant to see Jordan and Nerea together again on the water!! Together they are an awesome pair... Oso harro zutaz Nerea, txalupa batera itzultzeagatik! Animo!
It was so fun to see Nerea and Jordan together again. What a pair!
Colin, Like I mentioned in your last episode, disconnect high cost electronics power and communication cables whenever possible using quick disconnects wherever practical. I have had kids toys that have no batteries installed start playing music when lightning strikes close by. What happens is the capacitors get charged by electrons in the air and activate the device but it is not enough to burn out the circuit boards.
OMG, Jordan and Nerea! I'm so glad you're back on one channel together again! I can only hope you stay here for a while.
I was a High Voltage Test Technician. I'm retired now, I'm with the group that believes the more paths you provide the lightning to go to ground the less damage it will cause inside the boat. Do I have proof? No. But I've seen very large power transformers destroyed by lightning strikes that were miles away just because they lacked lightning arrestors and proper grounding. Lightning is going to find a way to ground. It can go Pluckys way and blow a hole through your prop shaft and or give it a path. It doesn't have to be a heavy cable either because there isn't one big enough to carry the all the potential current anyway. I think a cruiser could get away with a conductive paint from one of the chain plates to below the water line. The lightning will take the path of least resistance and once it starts to flash to ground all that's left is maybe a burn mark on your hull.
I cried laughing at Colin correcting Jamie- “Bitten”-You mean Stung. “Nest,”-You mean hive. Colin is a translation service for Jamie!
So so good to see the girls! Absolutely LOVE Jordan and her BFF from that "other sailboat "!! Epic episode Colin. Laughing hysterically, to puking lol. Love y'all. From 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
Great to see you all just having a blast ....
SPV : " The motley Crew of the high seas! Jamie is a classic! Bee stings and all! LOL!
My stomach hurts from laughing so hard. Who knew tortillas and water could be so hysterical.
I would recommend a solid copper rod from the top of the mast to the water, path of least resistance.....not a master electrician, but it works for houses...worth a try! Good luck and good work! God bless!
I think you are correct about the cable if the boat gets struck it won’t help much, It may work as more of a preventer though as it will tie the mask to the same potential as the water and may reduce the chance of getting struck,
Colin, I'm an electrician by trade. The reason you get hit is because of the difference in potential. Your battery cable in the water can help. Nothing can stop you from getting hit but you can take measures to lessen your chances. All metal parts should be bonded together. That bond should go to a large plate in the water. This will help equalize the potential around your boat. Any isolated piece of metal like a mast or a stay should be monded together and tied to the plate in your keel.
Literally laughing TEARS!!! I’m 49 and rarely easily entertained to that extent 🎉🤣
Hi Parley, the cable on the shrouds will work, but you should do that to all the shrouds stay points and the mast with a double cable directly into the water to put the top of the mast at the same static charge as the surrounding air, isolate all your boat equipment and electronic stuff from earth, remember there are about 1.4 -2Gw of static electricity in a strike and lighting strikes up not down. PS. Make the cable with big jumper clamps, so you can easily remove them when not needed.
I absolutely love the positive attitudes you all have. It makes for a very enjoyable watch!! thanks for the laughs and marine boat life lessons.
Hi Colin in construction underwater concrete pouring we use in the Netherlands a underwater disconnect module and Rod for those kind of lightning strike so our divers don’t get electrocuted during the proces there literary small in concept to protect a boat a human ore anything as also wiring .
Regards Ramon ,
What a guy Jamie is, great fun to have on board. Always make you smile and laugh 😂😂👍
Fit Dc surge protection on the boat and double pole isolators to isolate live and negative. And run lightning protection earth strap in copper from the top to the water.
Nice to see Nerea and Jordan again . great to see you all happy.
While sad, Parlay took a gazillion volts. Always happy to watch you troubleshoot, and resolve problems. Good to see you on Whitespotpirates too.
The electrical outlet incidents were classic Jamie he is such a gentle, imperturbably sanguine, likeable character!
That he had a bowl of tucker in front of him next images he was in was another classic Jamie moment.
I was working in an air traffic control tower alone one night when it was struck with a spectacular lightning strike. Ball lightning was racing around the guardrail on the walkway outside the tower windows. St. Elmo's fire, a blue flame 6" tall and flickering sprung from atop the consoles all the way around the cab, then suddenly after a minute or two, it was gone. We had way more electronics gear than you do, radars, radios, assorted CRT displays. We lost nothing. Didn't even blow a breaker. We had a large grounding cable running down the outside of the tower all the way from the guard rail which was cabled to the antennae on the roof. Grounding cables work. Yeah, it's a lot of electricity but it will take the path of least resistance. Greetings from San Jose, Costa Rica. Pilsen is better than Imperial cerveza..
Hey Steve! Jackie and I were just talking about you! Give us a shout one of these days! We just bought a new 50’ Cat and will be sailing ⛵️ the world soon! 🍻🍻🍻🤙🏽
@@nkdave747 That's great, Dave, I moved to Costa Rica and got married. My daughter is 13 now. Your kids must be all grown up now.I think about my old crew once in awhile. I've lost contact with most.
Great to hear from you. Say hi to Jackie for me.
Such towers are build as a faraday cage. They are specially developed to protect the equipment
On the move again! Good crew. What a story Colin! You just don't know how much joy a viewer can get from your channel. God Bless you.
Widerly
Esa Nerea 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩!!!! Bravo👏👏👏👏 Magnífico episodio!!!! Gracias a todos, sois un gran equipo!!!!! 💪💪💪
So cool to see all the friends you run into from Channels I have followed before besides yours!
Hilarious!
“I’m doing it!” Acting as your own morale support. Man, that was too funny.
If it was mine I would design a way to do a disconnect and isolate the sensitive electronic devices from a lightening strike. Yes this may take some time but in long run the savings would be worth it.
Try a copper wire grounding rod to the earth bed when you anchor that is connected to your boat. You need a path for the strikes to be captured with copper cable at the tippy top of the main mast attached to the boat that has enough temporary cable connected to a grounding rod. Not unlike your anchor is there a way to connect to this?
This is amazing!! What you've accomplished... Not only fixing your vessel.. but again fixing the lightening strike is constant work... An you guys do the work . Making it took easier than it is . As well as show the hardwork a lightening strike can cause.. it's no joke!! As we surely see!! Thanks for sharing your lives with us.✌🏼💗😊⛵
Colin,
The battery cable as a ground will help distribute the current that is already being distributed through every other piece of conduit that is connected to or bridged across some sort of capacitive component to the water/grounded shore circuit. I may lower the current load passing through the electronic circuits, but in reality it is lightning that we are talking about. It may have traveled over a mile or more already and it wasn't slowing down. Your best chance is just that; chance it to luck. Placing a cable, from your rigging into the water, that has a relatively large cross sectional area, may help to some degree, but it may invite some electrolysis that may do more harm than good. All the best to you. Thank you for sharing.
Cheers!
Blue Skies!
Faithfully,
James
To conduct a strike safely to “ground” (on a boat this means to the water), create a low-resistance path from the highest point on your boat to a metal grounding plate in contact with the water. Start with a solid half-inch-diameter steel or bronze rod elevated six to 12 inches above every other object on the boat.
Hope this helps buddy stay safe wish I was with all y’all
So happy to see you there Jordan! 🍍
Haven't seen any of your vids in awhile.nice seeing one again.yes grounding is a good idea.all houses built in north America are grounded.grounding boats are a good idea as well.try installing fusable links on all your equipment.it should save your expensive electronics
I think the ground cable in the water actually ATTRACTS lightening! Your offering an easy ground point for the lightening bolt to ground out which is what it is searching for. This is why cars (on rubber tires) do not get hit with lightening often and are a safe spot to be in a storm. They are not grounded because of the rubber / air tires. By making a better ground on the boat, your asking for trouble.
Agreed read this comment take it off asap
I think the cable going into the water could help. Electricity will take the path of least resistance. So hopefully it will travel down the shroud and directly into the water. It's better then havig the electrons traveling through all the wires of the boat hunting for away to ground.
Unfortunately, a direct strike is so much voltage that it won’t just travel down one of the rigging wires and into the ocean (even if grounded). It’s just way too much electricity coming in all at once. It’s going to go down the mast, all the rigging, the railing, through the electrical system and eventually finding it’s way out.
Loved all the banter with the tortilla smacks. Cracked up with laughter when you gave Jamie the fright, Classic. 😂
A lesson on reading wiring diagrams, chasing wire and starting the process of illimitation to resolving issue. Master Class...
Man I miss home (nz). Laughed my ass off when he kept saying bitten and nest🤣🤣
Morena! Nice to have a positive video again. Things are on the mend. Back home here we’re struggling with flooding so thoughts go out to those worse of than us. Kia kaha brothers and sisters!
Bolting the steel piece (carpenter square) onto your chain plate will damage the chain plate. It will cause the stainless to begin to corrode, worse case leading to failure, best case, accelerated deterioration.
Also, if you take the power for the remote from the main positive cable at the windlass solenoid, you will be able to use your windlass regardless if engine is running or not. In my opinion, that could save your ass one day. I have rescued 57 boats from sinking, and windlass operation played a key roll in being able to save them. Never know when you may need essentials equipment to function,keep it simple.
@@waywardodyssey2183 hey mate try putting this on the main page as you have only replied to my post x2. Sounds like you know your sh…it mate!
Your knowledge and know how is amazing. Sail on Parlay. 🙌🏼
5:20 That is almost exactly what my cousin did with his Beneteau 27 up on Long Island Sound to mitigate any lightning strikes.. As other's have said it's not so much to dissipate the effect of the strike itself, as it is to put the higher points of the boat at the same electrical potential as the ground (water) around it. No, it won't prevent ALL damage, but it should at least HELP. And it's a cheap prophylactic LOL Love seeing the ladies, especially Jordan, causing trouble and making everything fun!
I was in a boathouse with 4" steel pipe grounding rod when it was struck by lightning. Charge went straight into the ground with no damage at all. I vote to keep the conduits. One on each hull. More contact into water though.
Nice to see you lot can still smile and laugh with all the horrible crap that has happened to your boat. Best of luck to you getting it all back together.
The tortilla challenge .... such a crack up !!!!
your skill at diagnosis of electrical problems is impressive and priceless!
I think your right about the amount of power but as you said that wire cant hurt and if it even helps save one piece of gear in the future it will be worth it
I've worked in wireless communications for 35 years. The objective to reduce the chances of lightning strikes is to disipate static charge through a single point ground. The cable in the water can help but obviously not practical compared to a solid external anode below the waterline. Static charge disipation is commonly seen through electrolysis and degregation of your sacrificial anodes.
If everything is properly grounded in this way, the ground potential is the same at the top of the mast (tower in my experience 200' - 1000') as the surrounding earth or sea. This effectively makes the mast invisible to lightning.
Lightning cannot be channeled, if struck it will infuse everything conductible as it seeks a path to earth.
When I weld on a vehicle. I use a spike guard connected to the battery to stop power serge spiking the electronics. Just a they, but u will need a big one . Great content . From Hawkesbay Nz.
Lightning Strikes
Land strikes experienced:
I lived in Mammoth Lakes, CA for a number of years and experienced numerous lightning strikes and their effects on electronics. I was in the business of manufacturing small computers and related systems.
The problem with these lightning events in that area is the lack of good grounds. The water is so pure from snow runoff that it does not conduct electricity. When the main electric distribution lines in the Owens Valley were hit by a strike the flow seemed to congregate at the nearest mass usage population area.
I would routinely be called out to replace major components. I quickly found that in most cases the grounds were faulty. In my research into the problem I found one company that advertised a very good surge suppresser, PanaMax. I experimented with these units widely with excellent results.
As a side hustle to my computer business I created a Visitor Information system (A public computer in a nice cabinet with a database of video and text for travelers in the very early days of the Internet) My systems were in the big national parks, Yosemite, Death Valley, well as Mammoth Lakes.
One memorable event happened at Mammoth Mountain. I got a call from one of my clients at the administration office at the main lodge at the base of the main ski area. They reported that they had been hit with a lightning strike and none of their office equipment was working.
I spoke with a person on site and he stated that a large bolt of lightning was observed hitting the upper gondola cables 2500 feet above the lodge and that a 6 ft ball of electricity rolled down the cables and struck the main lodge with a thunderous explosion. Luckily nobody was hurt, but nothing seemed to work anymore.
I examined various pieces of equipment and found most of it fried. They had $40,000-$100,000 in damage. Laser Printers, Fax Machines, Telephone Systems, & Computer Systems were all damaged.
I noted that none of this plug in equipment was plugged into any surge suppression devices. I explained my thoughts on what might have prevented this loss, faulty grounds and surge suppression, and told them to seek out a proper electrical engineer to get answers.
Since one of my Visitor Information Systems was in the lobby of the Mammoth Mountain Hotel across the parking lot I proceed over there to see if my $7,500 system had survived. I talked with the manager who said that their IBM reservation computer was fried along with their telephone system and most of their other electric equipment did not survive as well.
I went to my Visitor Information System in the lobby and found the system dark. I looked at the 2 plug PanaMax surge suppressor and found the case partially melted. I removed the suppressor and checked the power outlet and found that it had normal voltage. I replaced the PanaMax unit with another one and voila, my system resumed operation with no other issues. The $50 suppressor had taken the full hit from the lightning bolt and saved me replacing $3,000-&4,000 in components. PanaMax gave me a new suppressor for free as part of their guarantee.
The Mammoth Mountain office manager later told me that they hired an electrical engineering firm out of Los Angeles to assess their electrical system. The firm found the common problem in the area, poor grounds due to the purity of the water. They drilled. 1 ft diameter hole 100 feet into the earth close to the building and inserted a solid copper rod to depth and packed the hole with salt and water. They then used this to ground the building electrical system.
I explained my use and results from my use of surge suppressors to the office manager and they purchased many for their new equipment.
On another occasion, the “Toulome Meadows” visitor center called me and said that my Visitor Information System was down due to a direct a lightning direct strike to the metal roof of their 100 year old building. When I installed the system there I had crawled below the building and ran a separate ground from the electrical outlet to a water pipe. That unit also had a telephone connection that I used to update data as well as dial out to lodging for visitors.
When I arrived the staff said all of their electronic systems were down. I looked behind my system cabinet and again found the PanaMax unit melted.
This PanaMax had the same suppression on the telephone connections as well. I replaced the suppressor and checked the power source and plugged in my system which came back to life “happy as a clam”. This $75 PanaMax unit saved me another $3,000-$4,000 and PanaMax replaced that unit as well for free.
PanaMax no longer sells equipment under that name, but their shunting technology still exists and has been improved.
Suppression on a boat in a salt water environment may be a wild card. Perhaps suppression in major electrical lines and devices on the boat could help in keeping such losses at a minimum.
Lance Morrison
lance@wccnv.us
We got units for lighting and CME strikes from EMP Shield to protect 2 houses and units for our vehicles…easy to install…
In regards to the bees... "GET ZE FLAMMENWERFER!" (And a fire extinguisher.)
Cool to know you are on the move again. Re lightning; if all of your stays and shrouds are grounded to the sea have you not created a faraday cage? Then again, that massive power of a lightening strike!...
You had me laughing up to tears, literally. 🤣
Some experts say that the boat has a charge that builds up to attract the lightning and by reducing the charge will help.. a static reducing element on the top of the mast helps...I don't know if you can test it...I know our Cape Dory wasn't hit but the boat 150 ft away was...
That Tortilla challenge was hilarious!
I'm not an electrician but we live up on a high point and anytime we have large thunderstorm come thru, we simply unplug our expensive crap. I mean yea we don't have TV, Internet/wifi, PC's, game systems, etc but they usually are over in a few hours or by morning in our case usually. I know this one happened while you all were away but some simple waterproof disconnects could help on some of the expensive stuff like nav and even the Inverter. Now the Battery systems is another one, may just have to keep a spare since it's all controlled by that smart box thing. There are 12v lightening protection things, could try one on a few electronics to see if they help. They are usually sacrificial. May not protect against a direct strike like yours but could help if you were like your neighbor boat in the marina!
We have to try that game out by the pool,,, That was funny to watch..
Another good one..glad to see y'all headin' out again!!
OMG "The Tortilla Challenge" That was hysterical! Hi Jordan!
So, + - 300 million volts in lightning. Kilo amps if it all hits. No insulating transformer or lightning rods will protect sensitive electronics. 400 volt can arc several centimeters in high amp switchgear. You may try CMCE as suggested below. Haven't seen any reviews but lightning protection is important to try to mitigate damage to more than just electronics.
I'm glad Tom is finally cutting off the skullett! Good onya mate!
Looking forward to this - hope all's going well with the repairs!
Just awesome!
Yes colin, basic troubleshooting principles. As a radio tech, most of the time you expected different frequencies at different locations ... etc
Damn! Jaime spit out his water before he EVEN got hit! Priceless!!
Gee thanks..... now I have to start drinking. That was awesome
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Love that he got a fake electric shock shot. I could not stop laughing.
Cheers guys!
😅 hehe crack up .. the tortilla challenge… yes it is good to have a Laugh now and then…I’m really enjoying all your videos bro 👍 . I hope you get all your electric’s on as well… good luck to all of you’s 🤘🏻
So the work goes on repairing the lightning damage. I am so sorry this happened again. I wouldn’t want the job of cleaning up the mess with the rotten rice. I think a mask may have been a bit of a help. Well done!
It was fun to see you enjoying your time with the girls. I really admire Jordon, and Nerea is always good for a laugh! So happy you are back sailing. Please stay safe!
16;30 'I'll just throw bleach everywhere !' - phew, my soul was crying out for him to say that !
Slow-mo videos of lightning strikes I've seen has shown that the strikes comprise of lightning coming down, but also rising up from the ground, particularly from sharp pointy bits, like mastheads. So a direct ground to the water to disapiate the energy, as others have suggested, sounds like a good idea.
Hi C, I am an electrical and instromentation E&I in mining Western Australia. I think the battery lead is a great idea, we have massive steel fixed plants, 3 or 4 stories high, we get hit by lightning 🌩 a lot, we do exactly that, earth/ground everything top to bottom, It minimises damage.
Motley crew are pumped. Tortillas face slapping. Replacing lightening damaged parts. Molten protein enhancec rice. Clean-up aisle (vacum, bleach, vinegar, pinesol, Dawn). Sweet smelling and heading to Mexico.
You guys are hysterical!
Be thankful a large fire didn’t kick off from the lightning. Always focus on the bright side. 🤗
Damn, the boat is almost back to normal now with Jamie back. And that laugh of his. lol
You have to have a system of fuse breakers that all the lines going down the center of the mast ae radio and wind. Then do a steel thing on top of the mast and connet it to the cables to the plates and lines from the plates to in the water.
and if you travel through a lot of rain use rainx on your windows it helps by making the water bead up and roll off and in most cases if the wind is blowing just a little it will just push it off
Thank you for the video.
The U of Florida used to have an extensive study on Lighting & Boats. It used to say damned if you do damned if you don't.
The goal should be to make you boat the same potential as the surrounding water. Lightening is hunting for the largest potential difference. Not knowing how your boat is bonded, the cable to the water might help.
Yes. Fiberglass hulls are an insulator, so a dedicated path to ground is needed on them during lightning storms. Also make sure to isolate any of the boat's wiring from the grounded conductors so as to prevent current induction between them in the instance of a lightning strike.
Those glassy eyes are a dead give away!
When you got bees moving in the easy way to shoo them off is just crank the music. They want their hive in a quiet nook, so a nearby party will send them packing if they haven't set up shop yet.
Anchor chain channel: line the track with a 1/4” piece of white or black starboard plastic. That will protect the channel/fiberglass, and it will also deaden the sound of the chain banging around on the fiberglass.
OMG I laughed so hard I couldn't see the TV. Jamie cracks me up.
Colin, the facts are: The cable will help divert the bulk of the lightening hit although from the lightening rod down to the water needs to be isolated from the boat. Tying it back to the boat is NOT good.
With that, the thing that's killing your electronics is the massive EMF field.
In theory, the cable would work just like ground rod, instead of the current travelling through your entire electrical system to find ground, it will take the path of least resistance through tom's ground cable. And like you said, it can't hurt, maybe upgrade to stainless for aesthetics, lol.
Well done
A boat near mine. In the marina in the Chesapeake. Lighting hit the water and came up the prop shaft fried the engine wiring.
Hi Colin
This is just my thoughts on lightning (I am no expert). Some years back I used to sell Critec Lightning protection devices so I have seen the incredible destruction lightning can do.
So here goes:
- Lightning is a (VHF) Very High Frequency event. VHF creates lots of EMF which crowds the current to the extreme outer surface of any solid conductor. This means that only the outer skin of big chunky cables carries lightning current (Note that VHF waveguides are mostly hollow). So if you want to conduct lightning safely to the water use large diameter thin wall Copper pipes.
- Lightning does not want to go around corners. I have seen lightning pass directly through thick concrete walls ignoring the lightning strap routed over top of the wall.
Create a direct path from lightning strike location to ground. If possible, surround this path with a grounded screen. The screen will limit the EMF pulse radiating into the rest of your boat (Create something like a big coaxial cable).
-Put everything inside your microwave.
Great new crew! Looking forward to upcoming episodes!
The thing about lightning is that it makes its own channel for the current, if you have a tempting route for it to take, it likely will. There will be plasma (arc) channel as well, hopefully around the easy route.
If your boat electronics are not grounded to the sea but electrically floating, they shouldn't be the easy route to the sea, but they very likely are something you don't want to be in contact with when the lighting strikes.