3 of the Most BRAINDEAD Decisions the Jedi Council Ever Made
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- The Council’s mostly fine tbh
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:56 Pacifists?
2:46 Revan and the Mandalorians
5:23 The Ruusan Reformation
8:28 Separatism
11:23 Outro
Clone Wars Image on Thumbnail By - www.etsy.com/shop/TheArtofLuc... - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Here's another mistake the council made. When Qui-Gon Jinn told them a Sith Lord attacked him while guarding the Queen, they didn't want to believe the Sith had returned. If they would have taken that seriously instead of dismissing it, they could have prevented the death of Qui-Gon. Think about it. Qui-Gon's death basically finalized Dooku's turn to the dark side, made Anakin lose faith in the council even more, and blinded the Jedi to what was coming.
The council followed the principles of the Jedi code. Qui-Gon followed the Force itself. His death marked the beginning of the end for the Jedi.
Anakins fall to Vader likely would've never happened had Qui Gon raised him. Obi Wan was more of a brother figure where Qui Gon would've been more of a father figure.
I do agree with this because this made more sense than the Ashoka and Anakin argument.
@@tonywright9906, what argument?
Qui-Gon is akin to Abraham of the Old Testament, in that sense. He trusted the force - he had faith in the force - rather than a code or a council.
The Jedi Council are akin to what we see with the Pharisees in the New Testament: they have completely lost sight of the Force’s Will and became enraptured in their code rather than trusting in the Force.
@@MatthewChenault, hey, it's you! Remember me?
Surprised you forgot to mentioned the one time when a bunch of Jedi had a vision that one of their Padawans would betray them and kill them. So they came up with the rational idea of simply killing ALL of their Padawans; a bunch of literal children.
They went through with it to, killing all but one of them, that one later (and probably reasonably) fell to the dark side and kill the Jedi masters who succeeded in killing a bunch of children cause they had a bad dream; ironically fulfilling the prophecy they had envisioned.
Technically, that wasn't a decision made by the Council, so it wasn't brought up. That's more a failing of the Jedi Order in general.
Are you talking about zain carrick? He didn't fall, he was the light side guy who beat the real threat.
The Council didn't do that that was a Jedi Covenant a secret order within the Jedi
Still need to finish the comics
He didn't fall to the dark side. That was a lie the Jedi told to cover up killing their padawans, which forced him to go on the run. He eventually exposed them and was invited back into the order. You seem to be misremembering the bulk of the comic. It's "The Knights of the Old Republic" comic series for anyone wondering. Over 50 issues if you're looking for a good full story.
Here's One: Kicking Ahsoka Out of the Temple
That’s part of the fighting a just cause. Also her being kicked out didn’t really affect anyone besides her. Even if it might’ve slightly affected Anakin, the damage had already been done to them by then.
@@PyroPuffs777it was still a brain dead decision especially because they only gave her a 1 minute trial
And not giving anakin the rank of master. Especially given that windu gave the news, do the talking yoda should have.
Not looking into Yaddle's death
@@sirkingjames4656 it’s not the fact they kicked her out but the retarded way the treated her before hand despite her age she is probably the most reasonable and calm Jedi in the order plus they had the audacity to frame her success at proving her innocence as a test a fucking test
"They who seek peace, must be prepared for war" seems like a fitting quote here.
si vis pacem, para bellum. if you want peace, prepare war.
Yep. Many a time did the Jedi get lackadaisical.
@@manuelschurig2266 is that the Latin phase?
@@rianmacdonald9454 yes. it's also where the parabellum part in 9mm parabellum comes from btw
To paraphrase one tactician: Anyone can make an error, it becomes a mistake when it's not corrected.
I see you are a man of culture.
A fellow Grand Admiral Thrawn fan, is it?
Atris was the cause of the First One. Her "Reforms" are all of the things thst caused the Fall of Anakin: the "No Attachments" Rule, the Outright Avoidance on Teaching Proper Resistance to the Dangers of the Dark Side, etc.
But atris’ teachings weren’t allowed to be. Kreia made sure of it
Maybe, but it still happened anyway
@ethanely6079 perhaps Kreia stopped her teachings post KOTOR 1, but the policies she supported before and during the Mandolorian wars were still enacted.
Said reforms also indirectly lead to order 66
So Atris had an indirect hand in the near total annihilation of the Jedi TWICE *_AND_* was indirectly responsible for the rise of the Galactic Empire?
Good job Atris. Truly splendid work you did there.
The Jedi council over the eras remind me of this thing I'd heard about Shakespear's tragedies: Tragedy is the wrong person in the wrong place and time. Basically, how if you were to switch Othello and Hamlet in their respective stories, then Othello would have killed his uncle and been done with it, while Hamlet, being more cautious and reluctant, would have witheld from murdering his wife, and could have figured out that Iago was lying to him.
The Jedi Order of Revan's time and the Jedi Order of the Prequels especially:
If the more cautious and reflective KotoR order had been faced with a Separatist rebellion, them holding back from going to war would be more morally justifiable, and they might have sensed Palpatine out, and defeated him, preventing the Empire from rising. If they exposed his connection to the Separatist Council, they might have even ended the war.
While the warlike Order of the Prequels would be heroes of legend had they existed in the Mandalorian Era. The Republic wasn't fighting a group of separatists, but a brutal, genocidal race of invaders who attacked them without just cause or sane reason. The Republic would see the Jedi fighting alongside them ,and would never turn against them, and with the whole Order united, they could likely defeat the Mandalorians more efficiently then Revan did, maybe even staying strong enough to resist any potential Sith Invasion.
Another one would probably be treating Anakin like any other jedi in his training and leaving it to a newly knighted Jedi rather than either a: having one of the Council Masters take him on themselves (which could give Kenobi the chance to fill the role of a secondary face for Anakin to turn to when he hit dead ends with his master instead of Palpatine automatically filling it) or b: allow him to be taught by multiple masters directly.
Yoda should have trained him personally. It makes absolutely no sense at all that they would allow a Knight fresh out of the trials, train what was already looking to be a troublesome padawan. Especially the chosen one.
the thumbnail kinda hinted at it but i think the betrayal of ahsoka was a small decision that was indicitive of a much larger flaw. they choose politics over their own and what they knew was right.
Exactly. They were more concerned about bowing down to the whims of the Senate than actually looking out for one of their own who they KNEW was probably innocent.
The mistake they also made that they ignored the return of the Sith was warned by the fallen Jedi named Kibh Jeen. A Jedi padawan who got corrupted by the taint of the Sith fortress on Almas. When he was on the trials of reaching knighthood. He turned and hired a group of insurgents to wage war on the Jedi called the Dark Jedi Conflict. While waging war, he found a journal written by a Sith who is a member of the rule of 2. And learn the Sith survived and reformed. When he was killed his last words were always 2 there are a no more no less, a master and a apprentice. The Jedi did not believe his warning of the surviving Sith and took this as a utterance of a madman. Until 32 BBY, when they revealed themselves.
You can't exactly blame The Council for the Revanist attacking the Republic no one could of expected Revan and Malek to encounter a ancient Sith Lord building a empire to take over everything.
Don't forget that the ancient Sith Lord also "brainwashed" Revan and Malek
Exactly it was literally impossible for anyone to expect that happening.
Yes but if Revan and his followers hadn’t joined the war the Mandalorians would have liked defeated the republic (or at least crippling it to a similar point) leaving the Jedi with a huge Mandalorian army on their doorstep
I think you misread what I was getting at. I wasn't chastising Revan, Malek, or the Revanists for fighting in the Mandalorian War, I was saying you can't exactly blame The Council for them attacking the republic during the Jedi Civil War as no one could of expected Revan and Malek would of encountered Darth Vitiate, and subsequently brainwashed into serving him.
@@chadflanaganCFC yes you can. if the full order went then perhaps they wopuld have the power to defeat the true sith empire.
The Mandalorian Wars would make for an awesome Clone Wars style TV series. I would watch it in a second.
I honestly want a show like this more than anything else right now. It would be epic seeing force users getting their butts kicked by non force users.
Well, the Mandalorians should have been changed into a larger Empire to make the Mandalorian War as we know it realistic in terms of logistics, industrial capacity and manpower. The gap between the Mandalorian and the Republic (Republic has 5 times more ships and men) is the same as the gap between the Confederate and the Union, or between Japan and the US.
Thanks for responding you guys
@@thanghoang3198, well, just 'cause they were smaller doesn't mean they couldn't give the Republic a very bloody nose before going down.
@@gilbertgreen7418 right mandalorins are as skilled as jedi even tho without the power of the force.
Uhhh, I'll agree that the Jedi getting involved in the Clone Wars was a bad idea, and it almost certainly helped contribute to their destruction. But I'll disagree with the idea that openly siding with the CIS was a better option. Really, the best choice (in my opinion, at least) would've been to not go with either side, to remain neutral in the war, and work to help the people of the galaxy whose lives have been negatively affected by the war. Although, it is always possible that if they did this, we could've just seen a repeat of the Mandalorian Wars, where a group of young, hotheaded, pro-Republic Jedi (almost certainly led by Anakin) split off from the rest of the Order and fight for the Republic anyway. Really, it was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation for the Jedi since the Separatist Crisis began. No matter what, public opinion would always be turned against the Jedi Order, an excuse to wipe them out via the GAR would always be found, and it would always end with the Rise of the New Order. Palpatine, as the bastard always does, engineered the whole situation so that no matter what action the Council took, he would win. That's what he does best.
Agree, absolutely. And start searching for the Sith Lord.
That was the idea. Palpatine wanted to make sure that only bad choices remained to them.
@@demi-femme4821 Doesn't help that this iteration of the Jedi Council was during the time when they were stagnant and connection to the Force was clouded.
For Jedi that are supposed to be the wisest of the order they really didn’t make wise decisions
Imagine if they'd left it up to some of the others...
As soon as their ability to call upon the force started to diminish due to Sith meddling, they were effectively floating dead in the water. Because the high council was usually where the most powerful, in-tune with the force Jedi went. This ability removed, they were stuck trying to feel their way around the more mundane world, and failed pretty spectacularly because of it.
There's no such things as a being that can make perfect decisions all of the time.
I don't know an organization that has lasted for over 25000 years must be doing something right
@@camp002 They're not the same organization for all that time. They had to reform for various reasons many times over 25000 years.
A real question is a what would have happened if the Jedi had supported the Separatists before the involvement of the corporations? And a better question is would the CIS even be able to stand a chance without said corporations supplying their droid armies?
The republic would have attacked them and then they would have turned to the corporations for their defense and then the droids would have killed the Jedi.
The corperation likely would have sold droids to the separatists anyway they just would have less power over them.
We know the corperation were happy to play both sides without knowing about a sith grand plan and likely woudk have done so again, espeically since most of their customers were in the rim anyway. The sith just made it sound extra lucrative.
You would have a reversal of roles though if the jedi sided with the seps.instead of corrupt corperation supporting both and controling the seps, you would have them support both hut control the Republic.
Is every planet who succeeded really all that justified. Like for example the trandosians or the zygarian slavers who joined the separatist in order to have legal slavery.
@@zkapsh all suscession movements are justified in a democracy. Self-determination is a cornerstone of democracy, the only justification they need is they want it.
@matthiuskoenig3378 would disagree, because their "self determination" effects other people, trandosians wanted to be the dominant species of the sector and continue to hunt wookies, and the tygarians wanted to be able enslave other species. Many planets joined either side just to justify actions against another group.
Leaving Ajunta Pul and his cronies leave Republic space seemed like a pretty brain dead decision considering that these individuals created entire monster armies and killed perhaps millions with a light punishment in the form of exile.
Okay but who could have predicted they would run in the one planet out of 400 billion inhabited by evil red people
How about when the council discovered that Count Dooku (Tyranus) and the Sith were behind the creation of the Clone Army that the Jedi commanded during the Clone Wars, and they responded
By doing absolutely nothing
The Clone Wars was basically a no-win situation for the Jedi because even if they did decide to support the Separatists then the Republic's betrayal of them would've just happened sooner. Palpatine was a master politician, he could adjust to almost any situation if need be. If the Jedi supported the CIS rather than the Republic then they would've been branded as traitors much earlier than they were and Palpatine would've just used that to turn the Republic into the Empire sooner than later. This was the twilight of both the Republic and the Jedi, they had become too intertwined with each other to be saved at this point.
Just another reason why Luke’s NJO was the best version of the Jedi
Anything involving the cardboard cutout Luke is instantly worse
@@some_shitposting_idiot3023 which is why I’m referring to the original NJO and not the crap one we got in the movies
@@masteroftheassassins Luke's Order constantly had rogue Jedi like Darth Caedus who went insane and joined the Dark Side causing untold destruction. Never mind his Order was also destroyed a century later by the Sith and the Empire.
@SuperPal-tr3go does it really count against them if space Satan is literally the on driving them crazy?
@@optimisticauthor6575 Yes it does count against them, because the narrative that Luke fanboys crafted is that he made better decisions than the Clone War era Jedi. If the Clone War era Jedi doesn't get any slack for the machinations of the Sith, then neither does Luke.
Here's another mistake the council made: the code itself. A very flawed and worthless code at that.
Lucky for us, Luke in Legends changed them for the better and didn't quite make the same mistakes.
The problem with the Jedi Siding with the Separatists in the Clone Wars is that, justified or not, Dooku was still Sith, not only that, but the Megacorporations were involved in the CIS long before the Clone Wars started. What they Should’ve done is what they did in the early years of the Mandalorian Wars, declare neutrality and leave the republic, but ascot as a third party to keep the peace.
I think the Revan one was lose lose either way
A part 2 would be great! Also, a video on their best decisions would be great as well.
I think you guys should explore more decisions because this is very interesting! Also, I'd argue not executing Ajunta Pall was one of their biggest mistakes.
They're like the brass in any other hierarchical institution. You reach the top, not based on merit, but based on adherence to dogma. In that sense it's pretty realistic for an ancient magical space religion.
I would say one of their biggest mistakes was what lead to the creation of the Sith Empire. Sparing the Dark Jedi and banishing them for chance of redemption.
I’m not sure it counts as a council decision, but the last remaining Jedi council members deciding to take away Mitra’s connection to the force AGAIN was counter to everything the Jedi code stood for, valuing life (the force being the source of life) above all else.
“We serve the people of this Republic”.
-Jedi Master Dooku
if jedi backed separatists then Palpatine would declare them traitors anyway - and the war would continue with entire backing of the senate and the public eye - it would be a devastating blow to jedi as a whole.
A truly helpful video! As for what you suggested at 11:06, I think it's finally clear why Palpatine orchestrated an Order 99 inside the droid's cyberbetic minds. He feared the idea of the Jedi siding with the CIS, because he feared exactly what you said, so, to even the odds, he planned for the droids to side against the CIS. Props to George, or whoever came up with Order 37 for giving us one of the closest Star Wars What If debates ever.
Imagine if the Order had a schism due to the Clone Wars, with some Jedis siding with the CIS while others sided with the Republic
Forgot if it was legends or canon but some jedi decided to become neutral during the clone wars
Palpatine would be EATING, especially since there would be a 100% chance of Anakin being in the Republic camp.
@@demi-femme4821 Imagine Palpatine looking out his window and the Jedi are just killing each other.
The council of the kotor Era really created all the issues that would come after. Fear drove them to limit their recruitment to children, when they had 21k years of adults working for them, so instead of choosing adults that had already proved themselves to be benevolent, now they had to hope every child they indoctrinated would end up a good jedi. Then you have what they did in the mandolorian wars and post jedi civil wars that set the stage for the new sith wars when they closed most of their other temples in favor of centralizing on coruscant. This led to the jedi being blind to corruption during the golden age because they mostly only ever saw the republic in peak performance. So basically the fear the kotor Era council had led to the downfall of the order in a short 4k years.
Reallly great video that explores some really deep, thought provoking concepts, I’m sold on a part 2
Aiding the republic in and republic allies with their wars, at the wrong time. For example, the clone war, or less notoriously, the conflict where the yamrii had their ships stolen by the kaleesh who then attacked them on their own planet. Ironically, the kaleesh were asking for help after the yamrii was killing and enslaving million of them. The jedi went into that war with full force. There were unpleasant consequences later down the line.
No matter what noble principles they once championed the Jedi during the clone wars were not true Jedi. They had fallen from that self appointed pedestal long before hand and just refused to admit it or do anything about it. Mace and Yoda even agree to keep it a secret from the Senate and the republic as a whole that they had lost some of their abilities. They had a duty to at least inform the senate that the republics protectors were weakened yet they decided between just the two of them not to. When they decided to settle over a dark side vergence they doomed their order
So what if the Jedi Council had agreed to go to war with the Mandalorians united? Would there have been no Dark Side "side effects" due to the wisdom and guidance of the Council and masters? Or might the Jedi still have been forced to match Mando-atrocity and have some fall anyway? Would they, at the end, have sent an envoy to look for the greater darkness (Darth Vitiate's empire) that Revan and Malak had sensed?
The Battle of malachor iv would not have ended atrociously the way it did because of the mass Shadow generator that inadvertently created Darth nihilus
@Havco501st or more likely revan still falls and wipes out even more
Imagine if Qui-Gon Jin had got off the ship on Coruscant with 10yo Anakin and said to an aide.... "go grab 30,000 credits and free a slave known as Shmi Skywalker on Tattoine. Set her up in a small apartment here with a pension and let her see young Anakin once a week."
Sounds like common sense, impossible for Star Wars
It sounds more like Serenity or even starship troopers haha
Maybe Star Trek DS9 on its best eps
Disney's 3 Most Bonehead Decisions with Star Wars :
1) The Force Awakens
2) The Last Jedi
3) The Rise of Skywalker
.........
4) Having all three; Luke, Han, and Leia all in a movie but NEVER on screen together!
F you Disney!
I don’t agree with 1-3
#4 on the other hand is the ONLY worst decision that LUCASFILM has made!!!
That's got to be my favorite "twist" in the prequels. That no matter who won the war, Sideous would always be the one who came out on top. The whole war was manipulated from the shadows to take control of the Galaxy. Ir at least the most powerful political institution in the galaxy. And then to combine every branch so Sideous could be in control of everything.
Here’s another one: Shrugging they’re shoulders and not vetting a spontaneous aesthetically pleasing army of super soldier clones.
another one would be them rushing into the battlefield as generals even tho most of them had 0 battle experience/ leadership qualities
Even though I love the Sith, the Jedi will always have a soft spot in my heart. Afterall...... where are the Sith usually reborn from?
watching this I am reminded of a DMX song - Damien - the chorus - ''The snake, the rat, the cat, the dog, how are you going to see them when living in the fog''
When you have no knowledge or understanding of corruption, greed, envy, jealousy, the dark nature of humanity - you will never be able to spot it or fight against it. The first battle, and most important one, is to open your eyes and see what is there.
Jeez the galaxy far far away is complex as hell huh? Awesome stuff.
The decision to exile instead of execute the dark Jedi from the great schism. Those dark Jedi crashed on Korriban and became Lords of the Sith, responsible for every major conflict for the next several thousand years.
The biggest mistake was stopping Jedi from forming relationships, especially between Jedi.
This lowered the numbers and strength of the Jedi each generation. In Legends, Luke fixed this problem and it made the New Jedi better than ever before.
Yes such relationships "Can" lead to the dark side, but then refusing to allow such relationships can as well.
I don’t think the Jedi made a mistake in siding with the republic during the clone wars…. The mistake they made was trusting the clone army and Chancellor. The leadership behind the Separatists was evil, they knew that…. Palpatine… they didn’t see that coming until it was too late.
The Chancellor is the LEADER of the republic. If they can't trust him then why did they side with him. They should have remained neutral.
Calling secession a "just cause" is stretching it. The Separatists had legit grievances but they were far more open to accepting atrocities.
A just cause, not a just faction.
They had no means to redress those grievances you acknowledge were legitimate. So how would things change without fighting for independence.
I don't want to, and can't, justify atrocities but after how many years, decades, or even centuries had the outer rim put up with the Republic treating them as second class citizens at best? It doesn't justify what they did, but I think it makes it a little more understandable.
"...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness...But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, ... it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security..."
@@markuhler2664 Yes they did they were just manipulated to not do them.
Your acting like the republic that allowed slavery is any better
@@unkown981, well, to be fair, they did try to crack down on it after the war started... they just did a terrible job at it.
Here’s a list of mistakes the Jedi Order on Coruscant across the galaxy have done besides what have been listen above. In chronological order;
1. The Padawan Massacre of Taris where a number of Jedi Masters living during the time of the Mandalorian Wars, had a collective vision of the events of the original trilogy and consequently, murdered every one of their padawans with the the exception of one guy who ratted them out.
2. The Mandalorian Excision which rendered Mandalore into a desert and fractured its society between the Commandos, Death Watch, and the Pacifists we later see in Clone Wars which the Jedi personally led because they didn’t want a repeat of the Mandalorian Wars even though the Mandalorian people were just rebuilding at the time of the Excision.
3. The Massacre of Galidraan where a Jedi task force under Dooku was tricked by a corrupt governor to basically murder the entirety of the Mandalorian Commando faction except for Jango Fett. This event is started leading Dooku down the Dark Side.
4. The Huk War which saw the oppressed Kaleesh people try to overthrow the Huk who enslaved them in the first place, only for the Republic and the Jedi to come in, side with the Huk, and impose heavy sanctions on Kalee. This would lead in turn to the rise of General Grievous.
5. The Baby Ludi Affair, where during an earthquake disaster, the Jedi found a baby with force potential and basically kidnapped her into the order. When the mom found out, she tried to fight back for her child, only for the Jedi to go no.
This isn’t also counting the numerous times during the events of the prequels where the arrogance of the order has resulted in the death of Qui-Gon Jinn, the failure of treating Anakin for the issues he suffered from during slavery which lead to his many personality quirks which contributed to his fall, and the wrongful trial of Ashoka Tano.
Basically, the Jedi jad become servants of the incredibly corrupt and messed-up Republic in all but name and did a lot of bad things because of it. I mean, almost all of these terrible decisions can be traced back to the Jedi doing something on behalf of the Republic.
I disagree that the correct choice was to join the Confederacy as both sides were sith puppets and took extremely questionable actions. The Jedi’s best choice would have been to try and negotiate peace.
In Jedi fallen order, taron malicose speech about the Jedi order explains it very well.
Lets go even further back. Exiling the "Dark" Jedi and setting them on the one way trip to encountering the Sith species and thus becoming the first Lords of the Sith and the creation of the Sith Order.
The Jedi as individuals and thus as a group can not function subordinated to any political, religious, or even internal organizational structure. Each Jedi acts under the will of the force. Anything that comes in between the two weakens them. It would also make for bad personal relationships between whatever organization the Jedi were subordinate to. If the senate for example says to go fight war and the Jedi say this in the not the will of the force, that would be a problem. You don't have the option to say no when you're a subordinate. You can protest but ultimately the choice is not yours. The Jedi can't function that way. I think that's why they were so weak at the end. The force itself was ignoring them to some degree. The force needed the Jedi to fall in order that they could be reborn under a better system. A system that was their own.
Here's another if no one's thought of it.. hypocritical prejudice towards people like Anakin. If they was SO worried about him they shouldn't have been dismissive,arrogant or condescending an even outright mean or fearful... While preaching to be none those things OR that they had those feelings an impulses mastered alot more then they was. They should've been real with everyone especially themselves. The OLD, OLD Republic Jedi woulda accepted Anakin an helped him. Palpatine's plan wouldn't have worked on them
now wondering why some clones have the black stripe on the helmet and some do not, honestly actually noticed this more after the outrage of the 212 phase 2 tvc clone 4 pack was revealed, went back and looked and not all clone wars clones was missing that black on the helmet,
Windu using force crush on general Grievous was a huge red flag for me as a child. That's a bad guy move.
No it’s actually not because Obi Wan used the same move in TCW.
Anakin also used it.
The difference is Windu and Kenobi didn’t let the technique corrupt them.
Using the force to crush an object is not the same as using the force to choke a person in order to inflict pain and derive enjoyment from it. Different powers and techniques entirely.
General Grievous would never have been a problem had the jedi actually helped his species
Part two ! Very nicely put
How about the fact in clone wars plo koon was the only council member who had the balls to actually apologize to Ahsoka. They threw her to the wolves and turned their back on her and then tried to spin it as some sort of “trial” that the force initiated. I mean are you kidding me!! That’s when I lost all respect for those short sighted a-holes.
Plo Koon was probably one of the few Jedi Council members who still really gave a sh*t. Also, he had his own bond with Ahsoka, as he brought her into the Order to begin with, so I imagine he felt extra sh*tty for what the Jedi did to her. But you are right. Man had balls of beskar. It really sucks he got killed in Order 66, he truly didn't deserve it.
@LUCAS SASSER how about they all own up to their mistake instead of just hiding behind plo…
I never understood why they were so keen on finding the chosen one and allowing him to bring balance to the force because the force was obviously way, way, WAY on the side of the Jedi so balancing it would just bring it back towards the sith, which is exactly what happened...
They viewed the dark side as an natural corruption of the force.
Bringing balance back to nature is not to make it 50% industrial wasteland. Likewise bringing balance to the force is not to make 50% of it corrupt.
Lucas himself flip flops between what balance means going with your interpretation or the jedi's interpretation depending on the interview.
The moment the Jedi replaced "for the people" with "for the republic" even if only defacto and not dejure they were doomed.
They moved to curusant and saw the corruption the burocracy the general uselessness of the senate but instead of distancing themself becoming secluded and wandering peacekeepers they became the senats lap dogs. Even good senetors like organa or mothma were in the end mostly focused on their own worlds needs and never realy pushed for reformation they were passive and so were the jedi.
The cw era council was flawed yes but they inherited a milenia old policy of complacement they never could have imagined that the republic they tied themself to could fall.
Sidious played the Jedi, either way, they would been wrong. Such was the grand design. Yoda going through his training realized this, that the Jedi would lose. It was truly the revenge of the Sith!!!🤔
Give people plasma swords and super powers; then they suddenly have to control some shit.
What happened to your other video about the rich kids that kept sith alive?
Everything is going "well" for the jedi order, then dark shroud (or something) falls and all jedis become "blind", panic, and then in less than 100(?) years the whole jedi order is destroyed... Yeah their hate they get is not justified...
Going to war with the Kaleesh, if they had discovered their dilemma instead of aiding those who enslaved and hunted them general grievous wouldn't have been his vengeance fuelled hunt on the jedi
Another problem with the Jedi Order is that each time they make a big mistake they just chuck it off to them will of the force instead of taking responsibility and solving the issue.
Evidence is that after Ashoka Tano's name is cleared one of the master said that it's the will of the force and Windu just chuck it off as the girl's trial to prove herself.
They knew about inhibitor chips and just let it happen.
Saying force sensitive kids were to old to train but without said training they would fall to the darkside
Actually I think the most critical mistake ever made was founding the Jedi Order in the first place instead of trying to restore the fractured Jed'aii Order.
the struck against the Sith first and bombed the Mandalorian planet out of fear. the hate is not overblown.
Part of palps brilliance was in creating a political separatist force that was evil. The jedi were more inclined to stay with the republic since most of their missions most notably the naboo crisis saw corporate alliances with the same rights as star systems trying to conduct hostile take overs of vulnerable planets and horribly exploiting the people. Techno union, trade federation, corporate alliance all had control of a large number of systems. The separatist senate was a sham, we know that from episode 2-3, novels and the clone wars TV show. Its easy to see how the jedi would side with the republic thinking they were fighting evil corporate owned worlds that are controlled by the sith lord count dooku
Luke's New Jedi Order in the Extended Universe/Legends Universe was the best version of the Jedi Order from what I've heard with all the changes Luke made.
Mhm Luke taught them to find the force in their own way, to forge attachments, to find love
Those changes didn't exactly make things better. Despite what you hear from Luke fanboys, it was not the best version of the order. They conveniently leave a lot of facts out to portray it as something it never was. That's why a lot of them have a problem with the sequels: they destroy the image that Luke fanboys crafted for themselves about him and the order he created.
00:25
I'll stop you right there. The Jedi council was a religious order that wormed its way into government.
During the prequel trilogy, we found out that they separated children from their families to increase their own numbers, and then use an army of slaves to fight a war.
I conclude that the prequel trilogy must have been Imperial propaganda.
Part 2? Yes please 🙏
Well, Sith History #4 just vanished like Nihilus' "body".
Great video and a part 2 wpuld be most excellent
Great job!!!
Do a part 2
They left Anakin's mother in slavery.
Tbh anakin should of bought her out of slavery once he got dem republic credits
@@unkown981 Jedi don't get paid other than for necessities. And padawans are not allowed to even leave the temple without supervision. The point in the film when he goes to save his mother was the ONLY time since he was free that he could go and get her. This was his FIRST solo mission and one of the first things he did was go and get his mom... only for her to die in his arms. If I was him I wouldn't have stopped at the sand people. I would have killed every single slaver on that planet in retaliation.
@@failedGraphics I would have force heal her and then kill every sand people. And probably yeah like you said every slaver.
Shmi chose to stay there, and it's not like the Jedi had any leverage to free her anyway.
Man who wants to be a Jedi knight I know I do am tired of being a normal person
How about the decision to not recruit Anakin, get him some goddamn therapy, and let Qui-Gon train him on the grounds that Mace WIndu had recruited and trained Rahm Kota.
Here's one, having the same Grandmaster for nearly a thousand years. Over that time, it all but guarantees that their leader would shape the Order to their own beliefs and losing their objectivity
Dude, every Grandmaster had the privilege of being able to shape their order according to their own philosophy. What do you think Luke Skywalker did after ROTJ?
Wasn't there a group of Jedi who tried to study the dark side, and got ex-communicated from the jedi order, which resulted in them becoming the modern form of the sith, Meaning that if the Jedi had allowed them to be Grey jedi, and prevented them from fully falling to the dark side, The entirety of conflict between the jedi and sith could have been avoided.
The only time this happened was the very FIRST dark side force users. They were exiled rather than killed because this was the first time this had ever happened and the Jedi didn't realize how much letting them live would screw them in the future. At this point, the "Sith" didn't exist as we know them and wouldn't modernize until much MUCH later. They were very primitive, more akin to actual evil space wizards than modern sith.
@@failedGraphics yeah, they shouldn't have been exiled, which cut them from any support structure based in the light side of the force, forcing them to be exclusively the dark side. If they hadn't been exiled, things would have been very different.
Palpatine woulda thrown a fit over the unexpected wrench of the Jedi CIS union. He’d probably play the desperate Republic for war & provide them with Clone Army for only he would know of it & only he could access it. He’d have to insert &/or use the greedy corporate members in the CIS that came in later to posing then from within. Jedi CIS would build a droid army to counter the clones. There would be an Order 66 but carried out by Jedi CIS droid army which would then be turned off & the clones would finish hunting those who survived
Obi-wan: “Hey don’t you think we should go back to Tatooine to rescue Anakin’s Mom from Slavery?”
Mace Windu: “No. Attachments for Jedi are forbidden.”
Yoda: “Attachment leads to jealousy, jealousy leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.”
Mace Windu: “And that leads to the dark side.”
Obi-wan: “Oh well, I tried. I’m sure that this *totally* won’t cause Anakin to resent the Jedi council. And that resentment will fester over the course of several years, causing Anakin to lose trust in the ways of the Jedi and push him closer to the dark side.”
Not sure I agree with the Jedi should've joined the Separatists. The Republic was certainly corrupt, but by that point, Palpatine had already engineered a no-win situation for the Jedi. Whoever they joined, there was still an army ready to betray them at a single order
I am pretty sure that revans fall to the dark side has to do with him chasing that "darkness" that the council felt as well. It wasn't just the mando war.
I have to disagree on the choice of Republic vs Separatist. Either way they back a Sith puppet state and likely lose in the end. Which leaves the actions of the two governments and their conduct in the war. While more obviously corrupt there's nothing to say the Confederacy overall was much better given who all ran the show. But moreover - bombing of civilian targets, use of incendiary weapons for the purposes of scorched earth, use of incendiary weapons on a civilian population, countless cases of either taking no prisoners, killing those in captivity, or attacking/killing those in escape pods or otherwise defenseless, use of human shields, the list of stuff that is just plain wrong that the CIS did is pretty damn long and would get a ton of them dragged in for war crimes in our world. Unless it's covered in stuff I haven't seen/read - the Republic was significantly better about not doing stuff like that, with the exception of Anakin being Anakin and doing all sorts of stuff.
Revan did do a little bit of trolling. The Jedi council was stupid so he tried to end it
From what I can tell the council had the right to arrest ashoka but didn't brother to even check to see if she even done it which she did not.
That my opinon anyway
Another mistake I feel like explains the whole Empire v Republic. The end of the Great Hyperspace Ware, aka when the Jedi helped with the genocide of Korriban. Because of that, everyone in the Empire believed that if they didn't destroy the Republic first, they'd be the ones who'd fade into nothingness. Which is exactly what happened. It may not have solved the Sith, but at least the citizens of the Sith Empire might've realized total annihilation wasn't the only end to their wars.
The fan criticism of the jedi council is classic Tuesday morning quarterbacking
Your defense of the Confederacy, when it was made by Palpatine (which already eliminates anything righteous about it) is quite sad. Had the confederacy won, since it was controlled by the worst of the galaxy, it would've been the same deal for Palpatine. Heck, the argument of "they just wanted to split from a tyranny" got destroyed when they started to invade Republic systems that remained loyal and FORCED them into the Confederacy.
That's not a just cause, it's just using a cause as justification to be awful.
whats funny is all sense the sith was in both sides i wonder if things would have gone much deferent if the jedi chose the separatists
The first decision was defiantly a bad call to not get involved, people were suffering and they should have tried to help during the Mandalorian Wars. True Revan and his followers took things too far and became a far worse evil, but their initial decision to help was the correct one as opposed to the Council who didn't want to get involved.
The second decision was actually a pretty good one. After the war with the Sith, the Galaxy needed to be rebuilt, and outside of the Hutts(and there the Hutts so you defiantly don't want to help them) The Republic was the only galactic superpower that had the resources to do. Plus, the Republic itself was pretty broken down at this point so this was the chance to rebuild it and the Galaxy for the better and to the credit of the Russian Reformation it worked really well at first, everyone in the Galaxy was well supplied and funded, and everyone seemed to be doing good, it did lead to the golden age of the Republic where many people even those in the Outer Ri were happy and well protected for a while. I mean, eventually, it all fell apart and things went to Sith(literally with how the Clone Wars ended), but before that, the Republic and Jedi working together did a lot of good in the Galaxy thanks to the Russian Reformations.
Now the third one is defiantly the most complex one. Now on the surface fighting against the CIS seemed like the right thing to do. Both the Jedi, several key Republic members including Bail Organ one of the nicest and goodest guys in the Republic, and even we the audience were shown that an evil Sith Lord, aka Dooku, was in control of the CIS alongside a massive Droid army built by cooperate slim balls, including Nute Gunray who just 10 years ago attack the innocent people of Naboo with a similar army, an army that would overwhelm and crush them and force them to submit to CIS rule. Thus, the logical move seems to fight against them, but Palpatine being the master manipulator he is staged it to look this way so that all those good Jedi and the Republic people and even we the audience were fooled into thinking the right course was to fight to protect ourselves from the evil CIS. The Battle of Geonosis itself was staged in such a way that the good people on both sides saw the others as completely evil and aggressive, raising armies to try and hurt them and destroy their societies, thus both sides believed the only logical move is to go to war to protect themselves from their barbaric aggressive foes. However, I still believe the Republic was not beyond saving at this point, it still could have been saved, and I still think the Jedi made the right call. I mean let's not forget all the good they and many others like the Clones did during the war, all the people they saved like the Twi'leks, the Togruas, and so on, many good Jedi and Clones gave their lives to save and help people and they will always be heroes in my mind, like Imu-Gun-Di and his troops who gave their lives to let the Twi'leks escape or Hardcases brave sacrifice at the Battle of Umbara. I salute these great men. I mean come on, we don't discount all the good Revan and his followers did during the Mandalorian Wars before thins went to Sith, so why do people seem to always discount all the good the Republic did during the Clone Wars, sure it ended very badly, just like what happened after the Mandalorian Wars, but again a lot of good was still done before that and it shouldn't be overlooked.
Yeah, it sucks because despite all the heroism of the clones and the Jedi who actually tried to fight for the people of the galaxy, in the end, it didn't matter, because they were just pawns of Palpatine's game for total control. The Clone Wars are a f*cking tragedy.
@@occam7382 They were a tragedy for everyone, well except Palpatine and a few of his closes allies.
Although, I'd argue it wasn't for nothing, as the heroic actions of many Clones and Jedi inspired people they saved to keep fighting the good fight against the Empire.
But the republic was violating the rights of unsatisfied worlds to secede. And unlike for ryloth, during the battle of umbara the "bad guys" were the republic, so you can't put them together.
Remember that it is the Republic Military's job to fight the Mandalorians - a bunch of non-force users, not the Jedi. Remember that the Republic has 5 times more ships and men than the Mandalorians - it is not going to lose. At worst, the Republic would have won a Soviet Union-style victory (remember that a Republic victory with 10% of galactic population being dead is still a Republic victory - most of death would be in the Rims anyway since the role of the Rims is a fodder).
@@NA-zq3fz That's why I said the third one is a lot more complex because of all the variables.
Also, I still think the Republic was in the right to invade Umbara, their secession meant that the Wookies would be completely boxed in by CIS worlds and cut off from Republic aid, and I love the Wookies so if someone puts them in danger then their my enemy, so I say invade to save Kashyyyk and the Wookies from being cut off from help. Now if the Umbara's were being reasonable and let the Repubilc pass by their planet free if they wanted to get to Kkashyyk then it would have been fine and they wouldn't have had to invade and if they did it would be wrong, but we don't know if they were being reasonable so invasion was the only choice in that matter.
I will die on the hill of saying the Russan Reformation was a terrible idea.
Any decisions made by Ki Adi Mundi was a truly bad one, seriously he was the worst person to go to for advice!
Well, stories are meant to be relatable, and the Council certainly can be
Part2 plz!!!
Love to have a video on how different Luke Skywalker's order was. Maybe with the best decisions Luke made.
A very well laid and intriguing video. Yes, the Jedi were not infallible and occasionally got big decisions wrong like the ones mentioned above. Although think Mandelorian wars involvement was a catch 22 scenario with no right answer that didn't go south. Also suspect you could properly do another video on mistakes of the Jedi that backfired on them almost as badly throughout their history.
Remember that it is the Republic Military's job to fight the Mandalorians - a bunch of non-force users, not the Jedi. Remember that the Republic has 5 times more ships and men than the Mandalorians - it is not going to lose. At worst, the Republic would have won a Soviet Union-style victory (remember that a Republic victory with 10% of galactic population being dead is still a Republic victory - most of death would be in the Rims anyway since the role of the Rims is a fodder).
And perhaps such Soviet-style victory would have been a better outcome if it is not followed by a Jedi Civil War and Darth Nihilus.
@@thanghoang3198 A job that the republic military was failing badly at and was getting their assed kick in. Plus said military advantage over the mandelorians was no way as big as you assume as they were still rebuilding from destruction of the great sith war, twenty years earlier. They were losing until Revan and his sect joined the fight and took the fight to mando's with inventive new strategies and improved moral.
@@thanghoang3198 May have avoided Jedi civil war, following on from it a few years later but Darth Nihilus would still have come into being as someone would still have used mass shadow generator eventually in a draw out war to inflict massed casualties on mando's. However, eventually they would still have to deal with inevitable invasion of the true sith in 300 years.