Do ported speakers make low frequency decay in your room longer (ft. Klaus Heinz)? - with HEDD Audio
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- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
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Have you ever come across a waterfall plot from a ported speaker?
So not a room measurement, but just the speaker, showing the ringing of the resonance system.
I definitely remember first seeing these. And being both slightly shocked and having a bit of a "duuuuh" moment..
It does make total sense after all that the resonance system of a ported speaker has its own decay associated with it.
But how bad does this usually get? Is it noticeable?
It's not generally something that speaker manufacturers show off about their speakers after all.
And taking it one step further, how much does it contribute to the existing low frequency decay in the room?
That's what I want to figure out in today's video.
Timecodes:
00:00 - Do ported speakers make the low frequency decay of your room longer?
02:05 - REW measurement of the HEDD Type20 MK2 ported vs closed
04:05 - Frequency response comparison of the HEDD Type20 MK2 ported vs closed
06:32 - Waterfall plot comparison of the HEDD Type20 MK2 ported vs closed
08:37 - What’s the deal with speaker ports? - HEDD speaker designer Klaus Heinz
15:42 - Advantages of a closed speaker - HEDD speaker designer Klaus Heinz
20:08 - Close proximity measurement of the port
24:20 - How important is the resonance system decay?
26:17 The Phantom Speaker Test FREE workshop: how to set up your speakers correctly
27:35 Outro
- HEDD Audio - What is HEDD Audio? -
Heinz Electrodynamic Design (HEDD) is a Berlin-based creator of cutting edge loudspeaker and headphone solutions. Founded in 2015 by physicist Heinz Klaus and his son, Musicologist Dr. Frederik Knop, HEDD products include studio monitors, subwoofers, and main speakers - as well as the signature HEDDphone®. Producers, sound engineers, recording artists, and high-end enthusiasts worldwide seek out HEDD for use in music production, mastering, and home HiFi. HEDD’s mission has been to build products aiming for complete accuracy and outstanding signal fidelity in Germany, that can accommodate a diverse range of sounds and eclectic spectrum of musical tastes.
- HEDD Audio & Acoustics Insider - What is it about? -
Welcome to this video series in collaboration with HEDD Audio! In this series I'm going deep into different aspects of studio speakers and subwoofers to show you how they work, how to use them in your home studio, and the pros and cons of different types of speaker designs. I'll be using acoustic measurements with Room EQ Wizard (REW) and Rational Acoustics SMAART, and I'll talk to experts, specialist and speaker designers. To do that I am partnering with HEDD Audio, which gives me the opportunity to go into a depth and breadth that I wouldn't be able to do on my own. I use HEDD Type20 MK2 speakers every day myself in my own studio and I couldn't be happier with how they perform. Otherwise I wouldn't have agreed to this partnership. I'm very excited to go on this deep dive with you and to show you how you can get the most out of your room and speakers.
Related blog post on Acoustics Insider:
www.acousticsinsider.com/blog...
Resources in this video:
www.roomeqwizard.com/
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A few comments:
1) Try measuring the speaker outdoors (woofer and port at ground level, elevated far above ground level, or sunk into a hole in the ground that is flush with the baffle). Then you can easily measure the port’s transient characteristics.
2) identify the port resonant frequency with the waterfall plot, then replace the swept sine waves with sine bursts of 10 cycles at the resonant frequency (you can do this with Audio Tester software.) Use the oscilloscope function on the new version of REW that you are using. You can clearly see how the transient attack is softened by the port, in addition to the decay. You can’t see this with the waterfall.
3) HEDD is using EQ to flatten the response in the closed box setting. The T-S parameters are surely optimized for reflex operation, so they would yield a gradual roll off below around 100 Hz if you simply closed the port. This implies more voice coil heating at LF and more excursion, so maximum output will suffer. Probably not an issue for nearfield monitoring.
4) A purpose designed closed box allows one to use vastly more absorption within the box, which will reduced the impact of internal reflections which are passed through the woofer cone after some delay. This is a source of midrange coloration, as are internal reflections that pass through the port itself. But I think the former are the larger issue.
5) Kudos to you for digging into details!
Very interesting and logical comments! :) About point 4, so would you say that using more (rather than less) absorption inside the box is overall more beneficial to the overall quality of the sound? Assuming we are talking full-range speakers and not subwoofers. What are the negatives, if any, when using lets say a quite tightly packed box as opposed to something that maybe only has a sheet of some absorption on an opposing inside wall? Isnt the cone movement, or lets say reaction time basically slowed down quite a lot because of the absorption material? I have also come across a box design that is basically something like a hybrid between closed/ported. If used a Seas coax midbass driver (6.5) in a box of maybe as little as
Thank you Jesco. Your interest in finding a lot of variables in acoustics and bring it to the real world practical scenarios, it helps people who started diving into acoustics.
Great interview Jesco! I always learn a lot from your videos.
Thx for the quality of your videos and info!
When two Germans speak English 🙂 for me as a German it was easy to understand and it was very informative. Thanks for the video👍🏻
Yeah it's a big respect for people talking about technical details not in their native language ..
🙃 Thanks for the feedback!
Hard to measure, easy to hear. Team Closed FTW!
👐 #teamclosed
You can hear that the sample frequency of the "Videoaudio" is to low(nyquest), so that the sweep at 2:56 sounds at the end like it goes down :D pretty cool
Aliasing
Good one!
My NEW most favorite video because the Expert pointed out that those who have heard DUAL 15" open Baffle Pro Loudspeakers become "intransicated, WOWed, shaken by awesome SounD reproduction. They are no longer in Vogue. But I knew I was "Blown away" by them at a strip club one night when I left my chair to sit infront of a Dual JBL Junior playing some Heavy Metal Tune that made my night. Dual 15" Speakers a lost Dinosaur only a Music enthusiast as my self holds great Value for. Those who must Buy the smallest Bookshelf that tries to sound like a 15" woofer. Like ELAC or what ever. Nope aint happening but your delusion may suffice. You need & MUST go BIG 15" KLIPSCH & nothing smaller!!!
I like you. Right now I am building two dual 15” woofer enclosures for my listening room. To either stand behind or beside the mid/hi speaker (with DSP time correction of course) or lay below it. I am using 2x Eminence Legend BP1525 bass guitar drivers per cabinet. The boxes are 250 litres per woofer, sealed.
Thanks for this! With such peaks and dips in the low frequency range and that decay, this room needs massive treatment if you want to really hear what’s going on in your mix.
He at a factory. I don’t think much mixing gets done in that space.
@@NathanOakley1980 I know, but the results are terrible. As there are panels clearly visible in the back, it is a bad example on good acoustics.
@@kingtubbyleeperry I agree, the results are terrible…. And you can hear that in the recording.
I wonder if you could measure the difference if you set up the speaker outside, in open air?
Absolutely
Ported is 18db per octave, not 12db
6db per order, Infinite Baffle 6db (first order) sealed box 12db (second order) bass reflex 18db (third order) band pass 24db (fourth order).
I'd imagine with all the parameters and geometries that could go into it it's not as discrete.
Nope. I don't where this comes from, but there is a CZcamsr called something with Hex that says something similar, and it is tno true. In a infinite baffle, the driver itself is still a mass-spring system of second-order, so 12 dB, not 6 dB. Sealed means adding stiffness directly to the mechanical stiffness, so the order does not change, so sealed is correctly stated as 12 dB. Ported does only add one reactive component, the mass in the port, but the circuit is now changed, since the stiffness of the enclosure is not located across the stiffness of the driver, so the resulting transfer function is fourth-order, so 24 dB. Look this up in any loudspeaker cookbock, or better yet, put togehter the lumped analogy circuit and work out the transfer functions
HEDD needs to make it possible to regulate the volume strength of the monitors,
from a volume knob placed on the controll surface/desk. (like the Genelec Z9000 volume controller)
It vould be nice if the rest of the "tuning knobs" would be controllable from the desk too.
Interresting flicks Jesco,, 👍👍. Cheers,, 🍻😎🤘
why not just use the monitor control on your interface?
Thank you for your input, much appreciated Irene!
@@HEDDAudioGmbH I am "extremely" interested in a pair of 30 Mk2 + SUB12. I will give you a call in a year when I saved up the money. If possible I/we will come down from Sweden to take a listen. ❤️
@@IrenESorius Reach out to us anytime, Irene - we are happy to help where ever you are.
@@HEDDAudioGmbH Wow, Thanks!
I will for 100% sure reach out when the finances are in place.
Cheers, thanks and see you in a while,, 🍻😎👍
I have a set of Pioneer Andrew Jones FS52’s with two rear ports (top & bottom)…I have a small squarish room & speakers can only be 15” from the front wall. What’s your take on completely plugging them or only plugging the bottom ports? I’ve tried all three configurations (open, half closed & fully closed) and it drives me a bit nuts as I’m not really sure which I prefer most & don’t fully understand what each config is doing.
This was excellent 👍🏻👍🏻
Is there a way to demonstrate the difference between ported and un-ported so we can actually hear it❓🤔
I don’t think there is because we as humans can’t hear at the super low frequencies where it is more obvious.
I recall a video on CZcams just the other day where they demonstrated the delay and change of movement between the speakers and air by using a slow motion camera and cotton wool suspended by string in front of the speaker port.
@@Younghead
I don't know if that will actually demonstrate anything to do with what we can hear acoustically. Please send me the link so I can watch this and understand it better.
@@stupendousmusic4190 Things you didn’t realise about bass…….. until now
I hope this is some use to you, I only watched it once.
ALPHA SOUND is the channel.
@@Younghead Thank you. I'll check it out.
Your DSP ruins the sound of your speakers in the Mark II series. I tried and returned them to the dealer.
A passiv membran is super flat in the bass region and has a drastic band-pass filter at the end. It works quicker than a open system.
Klippen can show it and ASR has one and Erins Audio Corner. more accurate than a anechoic chamber. should know this as they are used at Neumann Berlin and from Dresden.
You open the video in front of a pair of 3rd order reflex speakers. So….I’m guessing no.
The port is like another cone, just uses the air in the tube as the mass that moves the air to make sound rather than a paper cone. I can’t see any way this would make reverb time longer other than a port might get the speaker into a frequency range where there is a mode. If not then no.
The frequency and amplitude are all that matters. If two speakers have different output in frequency and amplitude then they will interact differently in the room. Vice versa.
Does the decay time change if it's a rear ported speaker, close up to walls?