Carbon Fiber Barrel Comparison - Part 1
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- čas přidán 26. 08. 2024
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Bro...I have been hearing about harmonics since I started looking at rifles. This is the first time I've seen anyone explain it in a way that makes any sense. Fantastic video my guy! 1000 likes from me.
Ty Mansfield thanks bud! Glad you liked it and that I was able to help people understand it better!
Ya there was a web page I found by some physics dude, but this is the first video I've found, and a picture is worth a thousand words
This is the best video I have seen at describing how carbon fiber barrels work. It's very succinct! Good job.
The Viagra "Girth" achievement killed me 😂
Pretty damn cool. I didn't know how exactly carbon fiber barrels were done I mean I knew it was wrapped around a machine down stainless steel barrel but I didn't know all the procedures and ins-and-outs this is going to be a very interesting series thank you very much.
David Wright glad you liked it bud!
As someone that makes a lot of videos (editing) I gotta say, man! you make great quality stuff! This takes a lot of work, all your animations and trick transitions and graphics. Nice work brother, very well done. I mean the video itself was super informative, the editing makes it intriguing and you retained my attention throughout. I would love to collaborate on some videos with you in the future. Good work man, love it!
Awesome video!
I have a Christian Arms in 6.5 creedmoor! Looking at getting a proof research barrel, bad, and Draco’s barrels in different calibers! Can’t wait for the next video.
Great presentation mate and I;m a huge 6.5Grendel fan so I loved your build too. Subscribed.!!! Happy shooting and thanks for the hard work you put into making content.
Subbed!!! I learn so much when I watch your videos!!
Glad you like them bud!
Great videos man with great points made
I understand that your three barrels are different calibers and lengths. But out of your three barrels which one do you believe to stay the coolest after multiple rounds fired? Which company’s system works the best?
I’m planning on building a 11.5” or 12.5” AR Pistol. After watching your videos and doing some research of my own. I’m leaning towards Proof and BSF.
Great video! Great chatting with you today. Nice shooting. Will have to look into that barrel
Alaskan Ballistics same here bud!
the viagra sponsored xbox achievement lmfao
Dam good production value
civic2323 thank you!
Just found you on Hank's live chat. Glad to find another Tennessean. Great content.
InSight Freedom thanks bud!
Excellent video. As to the thermal conductivity of the Proof wrap idk that anyone knows except proof. There is long thread on LRH discussing it. I think any easier way to tell would be to have two barrels of the same diameter, same cartridge, same environmentals, and a number of strings through them while monitoring the temp. If the CF wrap heats up faster then it's apparent it isn't insulating.
Will Sartin true
I think a better way might be to use a thermometer inserted into barrel after 5 rapid shots and measure the temperature of the steel sleeve itself. This would need to be time managed and environmental influences would need to be accounted for such as ambient temp etc, but I think that would give the most accurate result if trying to determine if a particular carbon barrel is more apt to insulate heat as opposed to another. Would be good if you had a buddy...and you both shot 2 different rifles with the same caliber, bullet, etc, but different carbon barrels. That way you could time your shots, and check the temp at exactly the same time.
Congratulations buddy! Best info for that matter by far!
Thanks
Glad to see you finally rolled out this video. I'm thinking of going 24" Proof Research 6.5 Creed for my bolt gun. Interesting you mentioned the Dracos at the end. I'm eyeing that for a possible AR build. Good video overall dude.
BobaChris thanks bud!
I'm so glad I stumbled upon your channel! I just recently purchased 4 days ago a BSF 223 wild in 20in and I haven't found any information in regards to this Barrel on CZcams. you definitely got a new subscriber here I can't wait to see the comparison with the BSF Barrel.
a quick question in regards to muzzel breaks? what is your opinion on the best typ to achieve the best accuracy in a precision rifle?
L Edwin have you tried that barrel yet? I’m thinking about building an AR .308 with a BSF barrel, and I would love to hear about them a little more.
I love this video! I can't wait to see the next vid with the Dracos Barrel!
Hunter Lives glad you liked it!
I did not see a part two ( too early) and would love to see prices included for more information. As usual, another great production.
Good video! Been waiting on this.
Legion Precision glad you like it bud!
Best explanation of barrel harmonics ive seen on youtube, you get a like and sub from me
Nathan Rigger thanks bud!
For true accuracy testing, you need a Lead Sled, and a remote syringe type trigger. Always take yourself out of the equasion.
great info
Subscription earned. Ready for part 2
dennist3hmenace I'm glad I earned it!
Another great video Fitty!
c b thanks bud!
Another important point about Proof Research barrels is that they do not exclusively use "carbon fibers". The helical wrapping process used around the barrel is a proprietary blend of carbon fibers and DKD thermal pitch fibers (used in Formula 1 brake pads for example), drastically increasing the thermal conductivity of the wrap along with the helical wrapping pattern. These pitch fibers are what give Proof barrels their seemingly magical heat shedding properties, and such materials are unseen in others. They are made by the same people and out of the same composite materials and high temperature resins that are sent to space on satellites and used in the F-22 and F-35 fighter programs. And then there's the other companies, which use a big sheet of carbon and resin wrap it around a barrel, effectively sealing in the heat and increasing heat stringing.
Yep. You hit on the main points! There are HUGE differences between woven PAN fibers and Pitch (and highly specialized resins), and combined with the manner that they are applied over the barrel blanks, the end result is as such. Mesophase Pitch is vastly superior in thermal and electrical conductivity to PAN. The CA barrels are fine for hunting type rifles where shot strings are limited in speed and volume. However, what BSF has done is a fantastic 'cost effective' way to achieve the desired results for stiffness and cooling. It is the one I'll be using on my next build simply because of performance vs dollars (the test fired barrels are still pricey at around 400 bucks, but they are half the cost of Proof). More folks need to get into the game and drive the prices down waaaay more....
Indeed, but BSF barrels do weigh a bunch more and the stainless blanks they use are not quite as nice as the single point cut rifled ones on a proof.
makes me wonder than why a free floated barrel is more accurate than a none free floated. If my handguard wound be attached to the end of the barrel, making it not able to move at the front, wouldnt that increase the accuracy following this theory?
I just ordered a bsf carbon fiber barrel because of this video.
I love my BSF 6.5 grendel. Easily sub MOA at 100yrds and I hope yours is a shooter as well. I have a .223 wylde I'm building up now!
@@FittyACTUAL I'm building a Stag 10 upper and lower, 6.5 cm. V7 hyper light guard, carbon fiber barrel, Ranier arms precision match bcg, and a caa ars stock. Al upgraded accesories like gas blocks and muzzle breaks tubes etc. Keeps it non restricted up north here in Alberta and if I play with the loads, cross my fingers for 1/2" at a 100. I'll let you know how it plays out.
Excellent video sir.
I wish you would have included Helix 6 Precision in this video.
I would have liked to as well but I believe they were only making bolt gun barrels at the time.
I've got a "home made" AR15 that's nothing really fancy and cost me $1200 to build with a Wilson Combat 18" match barrel (5.56x45 NATO), Timney 3-lb. comp trigger w/KNS Precision anti-rotation pins, Spike's lower, Umbrella Corp HUUR (fancy name for "blemished") upper, el cheapo Chinese full float handguard, PSA build kits, Magpul STR stock and MOE grip and a Lantac Dragon comp. I think I'm a decent shooter in general but not a great "target/benchrest" shooter but now I feel like a super shooter since that "cheap" AR has put 10 rounds in an inch at 100 yards TWICE with plain-jane, thrown-together Hornady V-Max reloads with PMC "matched" brass, un-trickled powder charges from an RCBS volume thrower and zero testing, tweaking or tuning of the ammo to the rifle. One 10-round group was over my pickup hood with nothing but a beanbag rest up front shooting in a gravel pit and that went went into 1.100" and the other was on a real-deal range (few and far between in western Nebraska/eastern Colorado) from a good steel bench in concrete using bags for a rest up front. That group was .990" for pretty damned close to a 1" average from ten consecutive shots from a 10-round P-Mag, which is my preferred magazine size for prairie dog blasting and other "practical" rather than tactical shooting. I know "tossing" so-called "fliers" is a pretty common practice along with shooting statistically-insignificant groups (most "reviews" from serious "gun writers" these days are 5 consecutive 5-round groups averaged which actually BENEFITS shooter, rifle and ammo IF all of the above are "decent") but its a lot better to just grin and bear the results and learn from them and benefit from them and improve on them and do the shooting in the "real world" of outdoor ranges and MINIMUM "rifle distances" than to try to "handicap" the process shooting 25 yards indoors. Clearly taking a "match grade" stainless barrel and turning it down to wrap it with carbon fiber is NOT producing anything LIKE "accuracy" and "precision" compared to what's out there for conventional barrels.
My AR15 had a good 500-1000 rounds through it before I did MY "benchrest" tests which were the result of trying to figure out why it was spraying FMJs from my cheap "plinking" loads all over the place in 5-8" "groups". I was fairly convinced it was the barrel since I had confidence in my scope, mount, ammunition, "gunbuilding" skills, etc. There was just now way even my cheap Everglades 55-grain FMJs could be THAT cheap. I was wrong. It was the bullets and I suspect I wasn't the only person to have "issues" with them since they had a "Version 2" out by that time. They work GREAT for "plinking" with an open-sighted AR carbine at 25-75 yards just burning powder. I took some out and put 30-40 rounds through a carry-handle -equipped 16" PSA Liberty stainless upper on an all-PSA lower I threw together and shot them into 4-5" at 30-40 yards just playing "Rambo" a little. No "mag dumps" but shooting faster and with less fucks given than usual by far. But those bullets just aren't "varmint" bullets, it was shots on prairie dogs at 100-250 yards I was missing by many inches to a couple feet I KNEW I shouldn't be missing THAT badly that got me to "benchrest" those bullets/loads and because they'd shot "decent" in a previous open-sighted AR a buddy "built" for me doing that same offhand jacking around type shooting, I assumed it was the barrel.
Fortunately I decided to double-check to make absolutely sure it wasn't the scope and I'd loaded some varmint ammo in the meantime so I headed out one more time to check it out. That's why I shot the pickup hood group. All 10 in almost a perfect isosceles triangle, too. And I was dialed in tight with my old Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14x50 wanting to see every bullet strike and see that "wandering zero" I expected to see. Instead I saw hole after hole right next to the one(s) before and with every shot wanted to quit while I was ahead because it was a kick-ass group from at 3 shots and then 5 shots and I just knew I was going to blow it with a flyer. But my goal wasn't to shoot a "record" group. It was to verify what the "problem" was, test the HARDWARE and every round downrange was just increasing the accuracy and precision of TEST even IF I had a "flier". But I finished it "clean" and shot another one at the range later to "back it up" and know for $1200 I "built" an AR that as it sits will out-shoot MOST "high-end" ARs and with a little testing and tuning and tweaking will PROBABLY shoot .25 MOA "groups" IF I decide 3 or 5 rounds is "good enough". Especially if I "toss" the "fliers".
But that wouldn't prove much, would it? Nor would it help ME become a better shooter, which is the REAL goal behind ALL my shooting whether its plinking with my old Marlin Model 81 or cutting loose with my AR-50. Those "precision" carbon-fiber barrels may look good IN paper when it comes to the CASH they're making their manufacturers and anybody "reviewing" them for "compensation". But they sure as hell don't look too good ON paper. Even side by each holes with a .223 at 25 yards are still going to open up to over 1 MOA at 100 yards even WITHOUT the fliers.
DEEREMEYER1 this is the longest comment I've ever received on a video...lol
Your harmonics theory is wrong. The wave nodes are at the top and bottom of the wave, it’s at that point the longest because it’s traveling in one direction, slowing down, coming to a stop and slowly accelerating the other direction
Where you are saying is actually the fastest point of movement
ExPoRtEhh makes sense, thanks for the correction!
What are you talking about? A node is a point along a standing wave where the wave has an amplitude of 0. The maximum accuracy is achieved when the crown of the barrel coincides with the node of the standing wave. The top and bottom of a wave are the peaks.
Great channel. Very cool stuff.
Aaron Lee glad you liked it!
great video
Thanks!
As a geezer who both competes in long range shooting and hunts at long ranges when necessary I want an accurate hunting rifle that is also light. As I said, I'm an old geezer.
CF wrapped barrels MAY be the answer IF they do not DELAMINATE!! Have "heard" of this but only 3rd hand..
I have a question. If a supersonic round leaves a barrel faster than the speed of sound and molecule wave phenomena is limited to the speed of sound then what difference does a free floating barrel make if the bullet has left the barrel before the barrel has been affected by the combustion shock wave?
Paul Dutton although the bullet is faster there's still enough of a dwell time inside the barrel before exit for barrel/trigger/shooter movement to effect the bullets flight path. If, after the trigger is pressed, the bullet moved so fast as to not be effected by these variables then everyone would have a pretty good long shot and all the schools would be teaching incorrectly.
Sound AKA frequency travel's MUCH faster through solid's than in air. Sound waves travel through iron for example 15 times faster than air. That's 16,770 feet per sec in iron for example compared to air which is 1125 ft per sec !!!!!! That's 5.5 times faster than typical bullet flying at 3000 ft per sec. Now it varies what material the barrel is but it's safe to say the frequency travels way faster than bullet so yeah it makes a difference
Ive kept a less than .50 hit ratio from cold bore shots and that's the max maybe over an inch when its hot
Just hunting hogs here but the barrel cools off quickly so it stops variation in shot placement
Wrong, the vibration amplitude increases if you match the natural frequency leading to resonance.
The thing is you're not matching the vibration amplitude, just adjusting the barrel dwell time of the projectile.
@@FittyACTUAL not amplitude, frequency...
thank you for this content. love it. am considering a 11.5 223 wylde barrel. any words of wisdom to pass on?
If you are going to go with a composite barrel I'd go with a BSF barrel because it has the same accuracy as the Proof Research barrel but at a lower cost.
Awesome
Thanks for the Education ...
Between me and my buddies we have 6 proof, 4 benchmark, and 3 christiansen. Decided to try something new and ordered some carbon six. Worst decision of my life! Long story short, their barrels are very bad quality and poorly built. To add insult to injury, their customer service sucks balls!! Gene Gordon is the guy. Super nice friendly and always answers emails promptly, before they get your money!! Once they get your money and you receive a shitty barrel no where near the specs you even ordered, they stop answering your emails and ignore you. They refuse to make things right and if you get lucky and get to actually talk to him, he’ll just lie and make excuses after excuses. Buyers beware, you’ve been warned. Do NOT buy from these crooks and wannabe barrel makers. You’ll regret it like us!
Interesting video on the carbon fiber barrels. And the different types used. CF is strong no doubt never thought about how it is put into production would effect the barrel dynamics. Did you post this on on ARFCOM? Might get some trolls and then some good comments. If you did I missed it at work.
Sith Yarael ARFCOM banned me lol. I had been posting there for years then recently started getting called a shill and then my paid for account was blocked. Oh well no worries lol
Well thats no fun.
These are great vids
Your simple claim that "carbon fiber is more rigid than steel" is not accurate. Carbon fiber is more rigid by MASS than steel, but not necessarily by volume or thickness. That is an important distinction. This means that a 1" diameter carbon fiber barrel may not actually be more rigid than a 1" diameter steel barrel, but it will weigh less.
Not enough info - test results can prove the things you say you don't know.
Why need carbon fiber . Steel tube can do same structure
True, but carbon fiber is cooler?
Are carbon fiber barrels suitable for duty rifles?
I don't see why they wouldn't be.
Just ordered a 308.
What brand is the compensator on the proof research barrel? Nice video!
Thanks! The brake is a copper one front Venom Defense.
Hey, I'm working on my own 6.5 creedmoor at build. I'm building mine more for hunting but am using the matchgrade parts I can afford. So a Ballistic Advantage premium series 24" heavy barrel. A lantec nickel boron bcg, the jp roller trigger. Does that sound good to you? Not trying tonget super precision just enough to touch a deer effectively at 500 yards
themeez1000 sounds good to me. Now after its built you need to hand load or try and find a factory load that shoots well in out of the rifle.
From a scale 0 to 10, what's your score for christensen rifles?
I haven't shot or seen any of their rifles so I wouldn't know, sorry.
4
What about bergara carbon barrels?
I dont have any experience with them.
They are right and wrong on the stiffness if you take 5 lbs of steel Vs 5lbs of carbon the carbon will be stiffer. But since their not going to put that much carbon on the barrel the steel would make a stiffer barrel.
is that your opinion?
Yes, that is your opinion I researched it...www.dexcraft.com/articles/carbon-fiber-composites/aluminium-vs-carbon-fiber-comparison-of-materials/
I love when people troll around with opinions.
This is a very good point
So you are saying that this thing is not worth it and should I stick to a bull barrel? I would aprecoate a answer! Thank you
can the carbon fiber barrel handle the pressure?the groove of the barrel must be very hard and strong,i doubt that an composite material like carbon fiber can do the job.
lânchánđời nguyễn but it does
Fitty% you can go the hydraulic press channel and see they press the thick brick of carbon fiber,it is not strong as we thought compare to normal steel,don't mentioned stainless steel yet.
Its still steel inside the carbon fiber wrapping. If you look at the latest PRS update on the "what the pros use" thread, you will see Proof is making headway as one of the most used. %50 of the top 10 used proof, but interestingly, all of them were 416SS and not carbon wrapped. This tells me Proof is catching up to Bartlein in their ability to make great shooting barrels, and the Carbon wrap just makes the barrel better. (Lighter, stiffer)
I just purchased the 308 version, and am waiting patiently for it. Fitty% is the Man in making comparison videos, and adding his honest opinions to the products. Thanks. Keep em coming!
I think youtube must have some kind of hidden rule that all novice videographers must play bland crappy music very loud in the background while talking as if they have a mouth full of marbles.
Ah, you got me......
@@FittyACTUAL Okay, that was kinda snarky. But seriously, we didn't click on your video to hear music. We clicked because we hoped you might have something interesting to say. You don't need to add extra frills to be interesting. You can be interesting all by yourself just by focusing on what you are saying.
@Devon Grey understood, I made this while I was still in film school I believe and my audio skills have improved and I didn't mix some of the audio levels well for mono speaker devices such as cell phones back then, but I do now.
This makes me want to finish my Carbon Fiber Grendel!
pretty much porn for me at this point
Just a note, specifically BECAUSE you went into harmonics here: you state that you used the same ammo like it's a good thing, when in fact, you should have used hand loads tuned to the specific rifle, or at least found ammo that each prefers. However, I'll concede that it's likely you did this with your steel barrel and the fact that the carbon fibre barrel did better on ammo chosen for your steel barrel speaks volumes to its stiffness and tight harmonics.
Accuracy testing a rifle...at 25 yards 😐
I wasn't "accuracy testing" at 25 yards. I simply compared my groups from one barrel to the other from the same distance.
@@FittyACTUAL Point taken. Just know that when you shoot a rifle that close, it's like having Tiger Woods practice a 3" putt...pretty pointless.
@@Sheepdog419 didn't seem pointless to me. There was a drastic improvement in the group size by only swapping the barrel.
Little less computer voice would help, it's like you're reading it from a paper. Aside from that; super information.
Mike Heutink I do script out points I want to hit in the video, but this is how I talk? lol
LOL, troll make a better video then...
25 yards doesnt mean shit for accuracy. Also every barrel likes a different load so that doesnt mean that your original AR barrel could have shot just as well. Inconclusive
If you do away with the music, you might be able to hear and understand everything that the narrator is saying. I do not understand why people that make these videos insist on the music drowning out the narrator........
Intro sucks, music is annoying
Sweet
Your voice is putting me to sleep man. I think I'll skip your other videos
4g63mark no worries