It's simple Farfo, the more words a card has, the more complicated it is. Complicated cards take more skill to play. Therefore, pendulum is the best deck because it has twice as many text boxes.
But Mystic Mine does take skill. There are 34 muscles that move your fingers and each 3 joint and thumb 2 joint. Brain neurons processes thoughts at 70-120 meters per second (156-270 mph). All of this is required to send the neurons to the muscles of the Mystic Mine Player's fingers to pick up Mystic Mine from their hand, in waving down motion, place Mystic Mine on the field in the field zone, which requires hand-eye coordination, measuring the longitude and altitude, and calculating the trajectory from the hand to the field zone, to locate and perfect the placing of Mystic Mine. Some Mystic Mine players are skillful in their hand-eye coordination they don't even need to look! As you can imagine, the amount of neurons, muscles, and thoughts required to activate Mystic Mine is a tremendous task.
@@damienmcneff7715 Oof. Then we're talking both hands, quickly moving the fingers through the deck, eye speed reaction to exactly locate Mine in the deck. These are all big brain moves.
counter fairy players: ok i'll save my judgement for X card and use divine providence on Y card so i can get the most benefit from my artemis and ariadne Mine players: REJECT HUMANITY, RETURN TO MONKE
"I reject my humanity JoJo!" But actually i treat mystic mine like forbidden evil macguffin. I smack kids in tag "NO we don't play Mystic mine, we learn from it. Mystic mine will floodgate EVERYONE. you, me, the opponent, the opponent's dog..." "But you play Necrovalley" "Because I don't need stuff moving out of grave. do you use Exodia or burn?" "No" "Do you have high atk monsters that require top decking like Gren Maju or a Kaiju?" "No" "THEN DON'T FUCKING PLAY MYSTIC MINE" Also you know what it won't floodgate? Dark magician. 60% of ygopro But you know what will? Necrovalley
As a control master, I can only say that to this day, "Summon Volcanic Rocket, effect of Rocket, Set 3 and Pass" is the strongest board-control decks have ever had. No wonder Konami doesn't want to give us Pyro players any new support, considering how broken that strategy was in the past (and still is)... Day 558 of waiting for Good Pyro/Volcanic Support to arrive in Blazing Vortex.
I argue that stun and control are different. They are similar, and often both want to make the game continue longer, but there is a distinction between the two terms. This makes Stun, and therefore flootgates, a whole other discussion than control. Control is based on taking positive trades in card advantage so that you eventually just overwhelm your opponent with how many cards you have. They have cards that are plus 1’s and that break even, so over time, you always have more cards than your opponent. Meanwhile, Stun tries to make card advantage mean as little as possible. Stun doesn’t take your opponent’s cards away, it makes your opponent’s cards useless. It doesn’t matter if your opponent has 5 cards and you have 2 if your opponent can’t play any of those cards.
I agree, I was a big fan of paleo frog back when we still had grass, but i didnt run any floodgates, i simply outgrind my opponent in advantage. I think that floodgates are unhealthy for the game in general, its not really surprising that many of them are banned or limited, tho I cant for the life of me figure out why mystic mine and skill drain are at 3.
I think there is definitely overlap though, like with eldlich and sky strikers being firmly control decks that also use floodgates. Or my current deck, shaddoll ishizu, which tries to outgrind opponents over multiple turns... but winda is still a card and I use it
@@tcoren1 It is not overlap, but rather different strategies working together. By that same logic, a deck like virtual world is a stun deck because it abuses VFD which is a stun card.
As an occasional Qli player, yep. Lose 1 turn and reqliate are essential as qlis without that kind of protection get demolished without it, and they are also buffed by negations. Getting towers/skybase out is a 1-3 turn process depending on the hand, and most interruptions to that process leave you with not much to work/recover with.
Envision yugioh decks as a spectrum consisting of stun - control - aggro - combo. The big problem with the game is that it has gone too far in both directions on the spectrum. The stun/control decks are too restrictive in not letting the opponent play (floodgates) and the combo decks are equally as restrictive when they can set up multiple negates whilst playing through handtraps and also occasionally handlooping you for no reason. Theoretically here has to be a happy medium here but I believe power creep has caused irreversible damage
Control doesn't let the opponent play yugioh, while combo has you cycle through half your deck to set up monsters with negates so you don't let your opponent play Yugioh
@@0Enigmatic0 I agree with Spike. Yugioh is like the Pokemon game with a thousand status conditions that amount to "rage, salt, confusion, sleep, stun, or toxic" Adamantine: Confusion or sleep True Draco: Rage or Toxic Dragoon: Toxic Firewall Dragon: Salt or confusion Mystic Mine: Salt or Rage Exodia: Sleep Dark Magician: mostly sleep but personally makes me salty lol
All damage done to Yugioh is reversible. If right the fuck now Konami said "Fuck it, we're going back to 2007. Here's a forbidden list with literally every RotA, Stratos, draw card, floodgate, Solemn, negate-y boi and OTK machine on it," would that many be opposed? Yeah, obviously, but Yugioh players have been putting up with Konami's abuse for so long they'd just take it lying down.
Are you not controlling the game? In all seriousness, what's the difference? Both "stun" and "control" try to slow your opponent down and CONTROL the pace of the game. The main difference seems to be that "Stun" makes the game by on longer, as they need more time to win the game while controlling the opponent. While for "control", you can make anything a 'controll' deck by throwing a bunch of negates at the opponent. Are these not similar?
@@sylphion9089 stun is a variation on control that takes less skill as they mostly rely on floodgates like fossil dyna, tcboo, anti-spell etc. imho all floodgates should be banned as they are very unskillful cards.
@@sylphion9089 stun focuses on not allowing your opponent to play while control focuses on allowing good trades and repeatable interactions to gain card economy. a very vague example is a stun card would say "your opp cannot special summon" while a control card philosophy would be "if your opp special summons destroy one card"
Imagine thinking imperm into faker on their turn doesnt take skill... It obviously takes skill to hide those 2 in your sleeve and not get noticed by your opponent
Hi Farfa, to be honest as a "control" or stun player myself one of the reason why i play those decks is budget. Well in modern YGO cards can be expensive as heck like look at adamancipators, eldlich, etc, for stun / control decks most of the cards were reprinted to its lowest rarity possible and its pretty easy to be able to craft a control/stun deck with a budget ranging from 50-100$
You talk about interactivity but their ain’t nothing fun about a “combo deck” vomiting out 10 negates. It’s literally just pretending to be smart or maybe even actually be smart to accomplish the same un-interactive scenario a flood gate card can achieve. But I guess you pointed that out at the end of the video. So in the end we all just hate yugioh and are masochists by continuing to play it.
If anything, its smarter to prevent their combo, so they can find a way around it. Rather than having non stop bait and negate to shut down. Neither is interactive. Personally i find omni negates more frustrating than full blown prevention
@@bigboss-hw6zt thats a 6 card hand which indicates going second which also indicates that the first turn already happened which also indicates that dragoon can still neg the mine as well as destroying the trap cards before they can be activated
What I've learned from these two videos is Yu-Gi-Oh is fun because of interactivity, and at a certain point in deck building most players will at some point want their opponents to stop having fun, either by doing some long combo and ending on a billion negates or setting floodgates and protecting them. It's a weird push and pull
Apologies for the impending essay: From the perspective of a control player (I’ve gone from Draco to Paleo to Salad to Geist to Zoo this year,) yes, there are specific stun cards that, if they resolve, you basically win the game (Rivalry, Gozen, TCBOO.) However, with other one-off traps, like Strike / Judgment, it really does take some sort of skill to decide what to actually negate. Personally, I think Impermanence is one of the more skillful traps we have today. Deciding even where to set the Imperm when going first matters because of Imperm’s ability to blank spells and traps in the column. You have to psycho-analyze *five-head* where your opponent will activate their spells and set their traps before they do. Additionally, there have been times where I have held an Impermanence to negate a monster until my opponent happened to place their spell card in the same zone as my Imperm so I can negate both the monster and the S/T. *big brain* And with Solemns, timing is key. The longer and longer you wait within the turn without getting blown out, the opponent will be lulled into a false sense of security. I find that counter traps like Strike and Judgment are best utilized when the opponent goes to make a link play or a Synchro play that requires 2+ materials, as you are mathematically making them neg while maintaining your own card advantage. That’s just me though
To be fair hoomans are evolved monkeys Combos: Alpha monkeys (high skill a lot of decks are combo etc) otk and midrange: beta chimps (decks can still do a lot but not usually as good as combo it seems) Control: omega chimps (the chimps that think differently and simpler for better or worse. They dont compete for alpha spot kr who has the better combo they take things some and make art and do their own thing. Also sometimes alpha and beta chimps will take a break from battling for alpha position to go beat up the omega chimps. Sounds familiar?
There needs to be a higher degree of interaction in modern yugioh. Decks that can consistently play through 2 hand traps and end on 3+ omni negates are a problem. Decks like that are the reason dice rolls are so important. If 2 combo decks play each other, the overwhelming favor goes to whoever goes first. To the point where the win rates of combo vs combo match-ups are very obviously linked to whoever won the dice roll. On the flip side, dice rolls are a little less important in control vs control match-ups. Yes, the dice roll is still very important, but the games generally go longer and have a higher chance for meaningful interactions that can really swing the outcome of the game. Take GOAT format for example; the main reason GOAT format is so loved is because it is almost exclusively a control format. Games aren't over in 3 turns or less and there is a very high skill ceiling. 2 pilots can open the same hand and have very different lines of play. I don't think floodgates are indicative of a control deck. Floodgates are honestly just a band-aid for bad decks. I consider the hallmark of a control deck the ability to simplify the game state so every card and interaction played is more impactful. I'll always support a yu-gi-oh format that is less reliant on a dice roll to win and allows for skillful interactions to be the deciding factor. I don't really have a problem with Virtual World or Tri-brigade because they wont stop you from playing the game completely. Dytron and Dragon link, on the other hand, can play through a few hand traps and will basically FTK you with negates alone. That's not interactive and is overall bad for the growth and health of the game. Nobody wants to pick-up yugioh, buy a deck, drive a few hours to an event, just so they can compete in a combo format and leave feeling like they didn't get to actually play any yugioh because they lost dice rolls.
Melffy seems to be an interesting and interactive control deck, until someone comes and says ahhhh yes let's add floodgates. Altergeist can also be interesting and interactive, but history has shown us it also can go the monke route. Counter Fairies is also a good and interactive control deck.
Or in short:every deck takes skill to some extend, at worst the deck building is where skill ends but everything takes skill to some extend. People can argue combo decks are more complex but overall even as Control player you need to know how to interrupt/what floodgates to play to deal with the deck opponents deck as effectively as possible
@@r3zafulwow bro your 15 minute mathmech combo to end on 3 negates and a trap card is so much better, it's truly skillful to play solitare with yourself so you dont allow the other player to do anything on their turn.
I think the most fun game I've played recently was Numeron Guru vs. Altergeist. The game boiled down to who could keep the resource advantage longest. Ps. Floodgates are boring and the fact that combo has gotten so out of hand that p lo aying every flood gate in existence us a good strategy really says something about the state of the game.
Personally I like playing control more than playing combo. With a control deck it feels more like playing against my opponent while with combo I play more against myself trying to not mess up my combo. I really like those tactical matches and trying to bluff my opponent into making a certain play
"At the same time however everyone can combo off with an isolde or block dragon via no interruptions while eating an entire tub of paint." Farfa 2020. My god farfa i absalutely fucking love ur generic and blank insult towards other player or decks, its too funny too live man.
This was a really funny video farfa, I snort laughed a lot and rewatched a lot of it cuz it was even funnier the second time. Please don't stop making videos!
Each deck requires some skills from the users, there may also be situations in this deck where you need to use XP. For example when you use Goddess Skuld's Oracle and you see Pot of Duality, Pot of Desires and Twin Twister a reasonable solution is given to opponent hand Pot of Desires. And also knowing opponents intentions, combos or decks it will always be useful.
The question of floodgates is really about tempo. Most aggro or combo decks will out resource a control deck within the first few turns, so control decks need a way to slow them down to their pace. Floodgates are a form of advantage generation, but instead of direct removal like torrential tribute, it's removal by turning cards into bricks. This means that it's subject to the same skillful interaction as other cards, just with a higher risk/reward curve because a single twin twisters can effectively be a +4-5 for the opponent as their cards become live again.
I think you make a good observation. I would go one step further since you didn’t explicitly say it. Control decks nowadays can’t really be only control, they need an element of stun to keep up with combo decks. What is more efficient in slowing down your opponent? TCOBO, skill drain, gozen, etc. or solemn strike? At this point solemn strike really is just a gamma that costs you LP. I think it’s a sad reality that as time progresses we will see more elements of stun make its way into control decks. Anyway, great video! Don’t mind me. I’m just gonna set 3 TCOBO, macro, and final battle and beat you with guru on turn 10 and say “gg wp”
I enjoy control decks to be able to see the mythical turn 3 or beyond, also I think control and stun are 2 different thing, if your deck is just floodgates and barrier statues or fossil dino thats stun, but if you play like altergeist, krawler, true draco, dark magician, those are control decks.
The people that complains about one floodgate is the people that sets up a board with multiple negates. Of course there is a lot of interactivity when every card in your hand gets negated if you go second and the game just ends.
He not funny at all with any of this video like this with the funny talk n acting dumb I bet you like my younger sister thinking everything n anything is funny n laughing at everything
I suppose because I run mystic mine in striker, I am a monkey with a single brain cell. However, try not to fall asleep watching dragon link doing their millenia-long combo challenge.
Nah m8, long as its not the focal point of your strategy its aight to run mine (tho it dont change the fact that mine's a broken card that needs to be banned). Problem is when your whole deck is based around it castle defense style (except for jeff ofc).
Hey those combo are awsome, they took me months of theorizing, net decking, reasearch, and practice to excute them perfectly while playing through hand traps. From a Dragon link player.
@@dalesabandal9113 I see it as combo minus the extra steps. Both end on "break my board, got an out bro?", only diff is spam has monsters with attack on the field.
Honestly if they insult you for playing a card game their biased. I've heard mtg has problems just like yugioh does. People get this .misconceptions that x card game is more balanced then y card game. The truth of the matter is all card games will have problems like power creep it's a matter of how it handles it. They have to print better cards and new cards for the sake of metagame and making money. How a card game handles that is probably why people think x card game is good or bad.
Yo I've never been a die hard fan of your channel but, from a video you made 2-3 years ago compared to this is light and day. I love to see how you've developed as a content creator and have learned to really incorporate yourself into your work. Your well on your way to 100k and I'm excited to be along the ride because 100k is not even the scratch on the iceberg of your potential. Amazing job farfa please keep it up. Dark Magician Mystic Mine turbo best deck btw lol
I had a Harpie/Vampire hybrid control deck I used to play on Dueling Network back before Kozmo was released (God that was so long ago). The deck was a sin unto decklists but actually picked up wins left and right, and was probably the biggest brain deck I've ever seen. Control decks are amazing when they rely more on subversion and manipulation as opposed to mindless stun spam. Letting things play out to the precise point you want, then stopping it just where you need it to be to play their own moves against them feels amazing. having fifteen flavors of "end your opponent's turn" on the board just feels like you pick a card at random between spoonfuls of glue.
As a stun player Farfa, I am deeply offended. The fossil dyna Moon mirror shield combo is very skillful. This combo takes years of training and mental fortitude furthermore, this level of skill is only obtainable by being able to consume in one sitting all the of the different flavors of crayons 🖍 from the 128 pack of crayons. You will never understand the pain of running out glue at a locals. Don't you ever insult my stun deck combos ever again good sir.
I mean, interaction in YuGiOh is arguably where the game is most fun, but with how powercrept the game is that is, with exception to casual matches, pretty nonexistent. Combo decks provided they are uninterrupted essentially result in an FTK on the basis that they either end on an impossible number of negates, a towers like monster, or a monster floodgate, sometimes even a combination of the three. Control / stun can be seen in a similar vein when sitting on multiple floodgates and traps that effectively do the same thing. The commonality between these is that they’ve picked up on the key strategy of YuGiOh. The power level of individual cards has skyrocketed into absurdity to the point that even letting one card resolve can completely flip the game on it’s head, so the best strategy is to make sure that they cannot play the game. Very occasionally a deck will slip through like Aggro which simply aims to OTK through said boards, though these are few and far between. I think that this discussion is interesting but ultimately puts players into a nightmarish state of lovecraftian enlightenment when they realise that on a competitive level and reduced to their base definition all decks aim to stop all interaction.
That's EXACTLY as a new player what I was thinking! It's like combo and stun/control are the same sides of the coin or a sword and a spear. Both effectively have similar end goals the only difference is the cards and how they get there.
So you have made a video about Control and Combo, but would you consider there to be different types of those that are still viable? Other card games have "Aggro" for example. Is there something you'd feel like fits into that category? The only one I would think of would be something like Gren Maju or would you consider most OTK based decks just to be part of that genre?
I have a legit question, would you consider something like skill drain or nekroz of unicore to be a floodgate? To me unicore doesnt feel like one because it doesnt prevent them from summoning it just makes them have to prioritize a target. You have much more experience than I do so I was just wondering your thoughts on it.
As someone who played rock stun for a significant amount of time I hard agree, baiting out and deciding the right effects to negate with the Koaki meru rocks made me feel like a pretty good Duelist but sometimes the game just boils down to Dyna moon mirror shield, I remember playing against a friend casually and his only backrow removal was in his extra deck so he had a hard time dealing with it and it didn't seem fun, I played a more casual RDA synchro deck and he had a lot more fun getting blown up and punched with a big red dragon.
Somewhere I read that to win with a control deck consistently you need understand the opponents deck better than themselves. Or open the best floodgates, that works too.
I’d argue that stun is awful, and control is vital for a healthy format (as you did). What I find strange is the hate for Geist throughout the years from various people, because while it has been a meta deck for 3 or so years, it’s also been one of the only control decks in the last few formats that promotes interactivity. Most other meta control decks rely on floodgates to win, while Geist plays none.
The deck is too good at what it does imo. You'll get 2 interrupts live past turn one, plus whatever traps you get. So you pretty much have to break their board the first turn. The deck is also rather consistent, what with meluseek and spoofing letting you get to faker and what not. There are a few match ups where I'd say its fun, salad against geist can be rather fun. But most decks lose all hope of breaking the board past turn one.
@@suezuccati304 from what I understand and read up on summon limits actually one of the more healthy floodgates compared to TCBOO and so on. It's just winda but trap card form to my knowledge.
With Geist you rely on your knowledge of your opponent to win. Unless you open Order against Striker, Geist is skillful in the fact that you have to understand the meta.
@@frogthejam2472 Hearthstone is built around not taking action on your opponents turn, in Yu-Gi-Oh terms there are no Ignition effects only mandatory trigger effects.
It's funny because in MtG, control decks are often the hardest to pilot optimally, picking when you need to/can tap out for a "dark hole" effect and when to hold up a counterspell, and so on.
for some reason i can have way more respect for someone trying to take 15 minutes of my life with adamancipator than a jackass setting 5 and/or mystic mine and passing
i think there are some fun floodgates but specifically when they aren't *too* powerful when it feels more like interacting differently due to changed game state and less like directly removing a massive part of gameplay, it's an interesting and sometimes healthy floodgate those are SUPER few and far between, and in modern yugioh it's almost impossible for one to be meta-relevant that's actually balanced, but going a little further back i think maybe jinzo or TER were fun examples that required some setup
@@query2874 Jinzo was quite powerful, but the game was in a state where people still played plenty of targeted removal cards. Snatch Steal, Brain Control, Tsukuyomi, Night Assailant, etc. were cards that most people played in the main deck because they were very generally useful, and not used specifically as an out to one or two cards. Deck building has (d)evolved into making something that does one thing extremely well, and if it gets hard-countered it just loses. If that thing happens to be setting up negates, then it's probably the best deck in the game until it gets hit on the banlist. Spells and Traps are sidelined more than ever before because Monster effects just do everything you need them to nowadays.
One of their most powerful traps is literally called skill drain
It's very meta when you think about it XD
@@cringebutyee1326 it's the most meta
We've went full circle
No. Stun. You're describing stun.
@@jadyndenys7736 define the two
Go on
It's simple Farfo, the more words a card has, the more complicated it is. Complicated cards take more skill to play. Therefore, pendulum is the best deck because it has twice as many text boxes.
With the exception of Metalfoes and Majespecters
@@babrad bring back kirin and electrum
Bring back CYBER STEIN TO 3 perhaps
Pendulum best deck. LETS FO
Pend best deck baby yeaaaaaaaaaaahhh!
But Mystic Mine does take skill. There are 34 muscles that move your fingers and each 3 joint and thumb 2 joint. Brain neurons processes thoughts at 70-120 meters per second (156-270 mph). All of this is required to send the neurons to the muscles of the Mystic Mine Player's fingers to pick up Mystic Mine from their hand, in waving down motion, place Mystic Mine on the field in the field zone, which requires hand-eye coordination, measuring the longitude and altitude, and calculating the trajectory from the hand to the field zone, to locate and perfect the placing of Mystic Mine. Some Mystic Mine players are skillful in their hand-eye coordination they don't even need to look! As you can imagine, the amount of neurons, muscles, and thoughts required to activate Mystic Mine is a tremendous task.
What if you used demise of land to search it though?
this comment deserves more likes
@@damienmcneff7715 Oof. Then we're talking both hands, quickly moving the fingers through the deck, eye speed reaction to exactly locate Mine in the deck. These are all big brain moves.
thIs is... beautiful
studies have shown listening to pillar men theme while playing mystic mine deck immediately increases muscle mass
counter fairy players: ok i'll save my judgement for X card and use divine providence on Y card so i can get the most benefit from my artemis and ariadne
Mine players: REJECT HUMANITY, RETURN TO MONKE
As someone who loves the counter fairy deck game sense is super required. Thats a skillful deck to use while mine........ Exists
True facts.
Grande Pedro
I laughed at the last part
"I reject my humanity JoJo!"
But actually i treat mystic mine like forbidden evil macguffin. I smack kids in tag "NO we don't play Mystic mine, we learn from it. Mystic mine will floodgate EVERYONE. you, me, the opponent, the opponent's dog..."
"But you play Necrovalley"
"Because I don't need stuff moving out of grave. do you use Exodia or burn?"
"No"
"Do you have high atk monsters that require top decking like Gren Maju or a Kaiju?"
"No"
"THEN DON'T FUCKING PLAY MYSTIC MINE"
Also you know what it won't floodgate? Dark magician. 60% of ygopro
But you know what will? Necrovalley
"if at first you don't succeed, side in your 15 floodgates" in The art of War, "Steven Trifunovski"
*PENDULUM*
BEST DECK LETS GOOOOOOO
PENDULUM BEST DECK LETS GOOOOO
ALL PENDULUM BEST DECK LETS GOOOOOO
ALL HAIL PENDULUM BEST DECK LETS GOOOOOOO
In other words: Yu-Gi-Oh takes no skill, everyone start playing Neo-Spacians Turbo.
How'd you figure out my meta-breaking strategy? I always slip in 4 copies of shapesnatch for extra consistency and sex appeal.
@@kennydawson5098 *Rata liked this comment*
If Summoning barrier statue and equipping moon mirror shield isn't combo idk what is
I mean, it is a combination of more than one card, so checks out
"Double sleeving is my wincon-combo! You can't ban me for it!"
Yugi described Feral Imp + Horn of the Unicorn as a combo, so I think we're in the clear.
have you ever heard two card combo named, "Silver Fang + Raigeki"?
it's not combo sir. it's basic how to piss your opponent off :)
As a control master, I can only say that to this day, "Summon Volcanic Rocket, effect of Rocket, Set 3 and Pass" is the strongest board-control decks have ever had. No wonder Konami doesn't want to give us Pyro players any new support, considering how broken that strategy was in the past (and still is)...
Day 558 of waiting for Good Pyro/Volcanic Support to arrive in Blazing Vortex.
Konami just don't want Royal Firestorm Guards to get even more targets to recycle
One day Farfa has to invite you to a video Payne. He just has to! ^^
Dem memories... Volcanics need love
Day 1563 waiting for hieratic support, the link doesnt help to otk at all
Holy moly, i truly do admire your determination, and as a fellow volcanic comrade I hope they'll give us something to work with
With those glasses, you look like a pure invoked player.
He looks like Nadir The Invoker
I don't know why but this is perfect
How is he not a dogma monster?
Mekk knight invoked most skilled deck change my mind lol
Valor, you look like an altergeist spieler :)
I argue that stun and control are different. They are similar, and often both want to make the game continue longer, but there is a distinction between the two terms. This makes Stun, and therefore flootgates, a whole other discussion than control.
Control is based on taking positive trades in card advantage so that you eventually just overwhelm your opponent with how many cards you have. They have cards that are plus 1’s and that break even, so over time, you always have more cards than your opponent.
Meanwhile, Stun tries to make card advantage mean as little as possible. Stun doesn’t take your opponent’s cards away, it makes your opponent’s cards useless. It doesn’t matter if your opponent has 5 cards and you have 2 if your opponent can’t play any of those cards.
good point
I agree, I was a big fan of paleo frog back when we still had grass, but i didnt run any floodgates, i simply outgrind my opponent in advantage. I think that floodgates are unhealthy for the game in general, its not really surprising that many of them are banned or limited, tho I cant for the life of me figure out why mystic mine and skill drain are at 3.
I think there is definitely overlap though, like with eldlich and sky strikers being firmly control decks that also use floodgates.
Or my current deck, shaddoll ishizu, which tries to outgrind opponents over multiple turns... but winda is still a card and I use it
@@tcoren1 It is not overlap, but rather different strategies working together. By that same logic, a deck like virtual world is a stun deck because it abuses VFD which is a stun card.
Whenever I think of a helmet deck, Qliphort with Lose 1 Turn comes to mind. I can totally imagine someone wearing a Scout.
Great name/profile pic man.
Bujins with kaiser colloseum.
@@user1raf I get Vietnam flashbacks from Kaiser Colloseum...
Qliphort - x3 vanities emptiness & x3 skill drain... GG
As an occasional Qli player, yep. Lose 1 turn and reqliate are essential as qlis without that kind of protection get demolished without it, and they are also buffed by negations. Getting towers/skybase out is a 1-3 turn process depending on the hand, and most interruptions to that process leave you with not much to work/recover with.
Envision yugioh decks as a spectrum consisting of stun - control - aggro - combo. The big problem with the game is that it has gone too far in both directions on the spectrum. The stun/control decks are too restrictive in not letting the opponent play (floodgates) and the combo decks are equally as restrictive when they can set up multiple negates whilst playing through handtraps and also occasionally handlooping you for no reason. Theoretically here has to be a happy medium here but I believe power creep has caused irreversible damage
I'd argue to put FTK to the right of combo, then both have "strategies" at each end saying "opponent doesn't play".
Control doesn't let the opponent play yugioh, while combo has you cycle through half your deck to set up monsters with negates so you don't let your opponent play Yugioh
@@0Enigmatic0
I agree with Spike. Yugioh is like the Pokemon game with a thousand status conditions that amount to "rage, salt, confusion, sleep, stun, or toxic"
Adamantine: Confusion or sleep
True Draco: Rage or Toxic
Dragoon: Toxic
Firewall Dragon: Salt or confusion
Mystic Mine: Salt or Rage
Exodia: Sleep
Dark Magician: mostly sleep but personally makes me salty lol
@@ultraatari9298 you could always play Salad or Orcust, they kinda are the medium right now. Dark magician?
All damage done to Yugioh is reversible. If right the fuck now Konami said "Fuck it, we're going back to 2007. Here's a forbidden list with literally every RotA, Stratos, draw card, floodgate, Solemn, negate-y boi and OTK machine on it," would that many be opposed?
Yeah, obviously, but Yugioh players have been putting up with Konami's abuse for so long they'd just take it lying down.
Should have just combined these past two videos into one big: “YuGIoh TaKes nO SKiLl” meme review 😅
CoD Modern Warfere takes no skill
You know what? These were actually really good videos. Well done.
You were probably expecting some lame joke here but no dude really, good content.
Wholesome moments
WidepeepoHappy
Flood gates is not control
That's stun
Stun decks take no skill
THANK YOU
Are you not controlling the game?
In all seriousness, what's the difference? Both "stun" and "control" try to slow your opponent down and CONTROL the pace of the game. The main difference seems to be that "Stun" makes the game by on longer, as they need more time to win the game while controlling the opponent. While for "control", you can make anything a 'controll' deck by throwing a bunch of negates at the opponent.
Are these not similar?
Control decks need to know how to interact with the opponent's deck and react to what they're doing. Floodgates don't need to do any of that.
@@sylphion9089 stun is a variation on control that takes less skill as they mostly rely on floodgates like fossil dyna, tcboo, anti-spell etc. imho all floodgates should be banned as they are very unskillful cards.
@@sylphion9089 stun focuses on not allowing your opponent to play while control focuses on allowing good trades and repeatable interactions to gain card economy. a very vague example is a stun card would say "your opp cannot special summon" while a control card philosophy would be "if your opp special summons destroy one card"
Imagine thinking imperm into faker on their turn doesnt take skill...
It obviously takes skill to hide those 2 in your sleeve and not get noticed by your opponent
Hi Farfa, to be honest as a "control" or stun player myself one of the reason why i play those decks is budget. Well in modern YGO cards can be expensive as heck like look at adamancipators, eldlich, etc, for stun / control decks most of the cards were reprinted to its lowest rarity possible and its pretty easy to be able to craft a control/stun deck with a budget ranging from 50-100$
0:50
I freaking choked 😂
God I need someone to clip this
You talk about interactivity but their ain’t nothing fun about a “combo deck” vomiting out 10 negates. It’s literally just pretending to be smart or maybe even actually be smart to accomplish the same un-interactive scenario a flood gate card can achieve.
But I guess you pointed that out at the end of the video. So in the end we all just hate yugioh and are masochists by continuing to play it.
If anything, its smarter to prevent their combo, so they can find a way around it. Rather than having non stop bait and negate to shut down. Neither is interactive. Personally i find omni negates more frustrating than full blown prevention
@@kyledevino2721 you can kaiju a dragoon, you cant kaiju mystic mine & 5 backrow that will just negate any destruction for said mystic mine
@@bigboss-hw6zt thats a 6 card hand which indicates going second which also indicates that the first turn already happened which also indicates that dragoon can still neg the mine as well as destroying the trap cards before they can be activated
He literally said he doesn’t think that a 10 negate combo board should be in the game either stop using that argument dumbass
Combo decks literally crumble under a single DRNM/Droplet lmao
What I've learned from these two videos is Yu-Gi-Oh is fun because of interactivity, and at a certain point in deck building most players will at some point want their opponents to stop having fun, either by doing some long combo and ending on a billion negates or setting floodgates and protecting them. It's a weird push and pull
0:34 Me who uses kelvin: that's about 300iq
Apologies for the impending essay:
From the perspective of a control player (I’ve gone from Draco to Paleo to Salad to Geist to Zoo this year,) yes, there are specific stun cards that, if they resolve, you basically win the game (Rivalry, Gozen, TCBOO.)
However, with other one-off traps, like Strike / Judgment, it really does take some sort of skill to decide what to actually negate.
Personally, I think Impermanence is one of the more skillful traps we have today. Deciding even where to set the Imperm when going first matters because of Imperm’s ability to blank spells and traps in the column. You have to psycho-analyze *five-head* where your opponent will activate their spells and set their traps before they do. Additionally, there have been times where I have held an Impermanence to negate a monster until my opponent happened to place their spell card in the same zone as my Imperm so I can negate both the monster and the S/T. *big brain*
And with Solemns, timing is key. The longer and longer you wait within the turn without getting blown out, the opponent will be lulled into a false sense of security. I find that counter traps like Strike and Judgment are best utilized when the opponent goes to make a link play or a Synchro play that requires 2+ materials, as you are mathematically making them neg while maintaining your own card advantage.
That’s just me though
I like how your deck choices have increased in interactivity
I just noticed that. Yeah, they in fact have
Storming / Regular Mirror Force + Strike outs basically everything lol
@@DMD_Yugioh let's not forget our favorite friend solenn warning which essentially negates entire ss out of existence period.
gravekeepersven82
“favorite friend”
“Solemn Warning”
No
How dare u call mine players monkeys! Monkeys have actual braincells my guy c'mon
To be fair hoomans are evolved monkeys
Combos: Alpha monkeys (high skill a lot of decks are combo etc)
otk and midrange: beta chimps (decks can still do a lot but not usually as good as combo it seems)
Control: omega chimps (the chimps that think differently and simpler for better or worse. They dont compete for alpha spot kr who has the better combo they take things some and make art and do their own thing.
Also sometimes alpha and beta chimps will take a break from battling for alpha position to go beat up the omega chimps. Sounds familiar?
There needs to be a higher degree of interaction in modern yugioh. Decks that can consistently play through 2 hand traps and end on 3+ omni negates are a problem. Decks like that are the reason dice rolls are so important. If 2 combo decks play each other, the overwhelming favor goes to whoever goes first. To the point where the win rates of combo vs combo match-ups are very obviously linked to whoever won the dice roll.
On the flip side, dice rolls are a little less important in control vs control match-ups. Yes, the dice roll is still very important, but the games generally go longer and have a higher chance for meaningful interactions that can really swing the outcome of the game. Take GOAT format for example; the main reason GOAT format is so loved is because it is almost exclusively a control format. Games aren't over in 3 turns or less and there is a very high skill ceiling. 2 pilots can open the same hand and have very different lines of play. I don't think floodgates are indicative of a control deck. Floodgates are honestly just a band-aid for bad decks. I consider the hallmark of a control deck the ability to simplify the game state so every card and interaction played is more impactful.
I'll always support a yu-gi-oh format that is less reliant on a dice roll to win and allows for skillful interactions to be the deciding factor. I don't really have a problem with Virtual World or Tri-brigade because they wont stop you from playing the game completely. Dytron and Dragon link, on the other hand, can play through a few hand traps and will basically FTK you with negates alone. That's not interactive and is overall bad for the growth and health of the game. Nobody wants to pick-up yugioh, buy a deck, drive a few hours to an event, just so they can compete in a combo format and leave feeling like they didn't get to actually play any yugioh because they lost dice rolls.
Melffy seems to be an interesting and interactive control deck, until someone comes and says ahhhh yes let's add floodgates.
Altergeist can also be interesting and interactive, but history has shown us it also can go the monke route.
Counter Fairies is also a good and interactive control deck.
Or in short:every deck takes skill to some extend, at worst the deck building is where skill ends but everything takes skill to some extend. People can argue combo decks are more complex but overall even as Control player you need to know how to interrupt/what floodgates to play to deal with the deck opponents deck as effectively as possible
Flip skill drain
suck skill
@@r3zafulwow bro your 15 minute mathmech combo to end on 3 negates and a trap card is so much better, it's truly skillful to play solitare with yourself so you dont allow the other player to do anything on their turn.
Next video: "Yu-Gi-Oh Takes No Skill"
I think the most fun game I've played recently was Numeron Guru vs. Altergeist. The game boiled down to who could keep the resource advantage longest.
Ps. Floodgates are boring and the fact that combo has gotten so out of hand that p lo aying every flood gate in existence us a good strategy really says something about the state of the game.
That's understandable since you two were both playing control.
Personally I like playing control more than playing combo. With a control deck it feels more like playing against my opponent while with combo I play more against myself trying to not mess up my combo. I really like those tactical matches and trying to bluff my opponent into making a certain play
"At the same time however everyone can combo off with an isolde or block dragon via no interruptions while eating an entire tub of paint." Farfa 2020.
My god farfa i absalutely fucking love ur generic and blank insult towards other player or decks, its too funny too live man.
This was a really funny video farfa, I snort laughed a lot and rewatched a lot of it cuz it was even funnier the second time. Please don't stop making videos!
Each deck requires some skills from the users, there may also be situations in this deck where you need to use XP. For example when you use Goddess Skuld's Oracle and you see Pot of Duality, Pot of Desires and Twin Twister a reasonable solution is given to opponent hand Pot of Desires. And also knowing opponents intentions, combos or decks it will always be useful.
2:30 i fell of the chair. Had me laughing for the whole day
🤣 me too. he's not bad at acting
Next vid: *GOING 2ND OTK DECKS TAKES NO SKILL*
Next vid after: *STUN DECKS TAKES NO SKILL*
Maybe next vid after that: *GRINDER DECKS TAKES NO SKILL*
man farfa, i love your videos bro. entertaining and well informing. hope u hit 100k
The question of floodgates is really about tempo. Most aggro or combo decks will out resource a control deck within the first few turns, so control decks need a way to slow them down to their pace. Floodgates are a form of advantage generation, but instead of direct removal like torrential tribute, it's removal by turning cards into bricks. This means that it's subject to the same skillful interaction as other cards, just with a higher risk/reward curve because a single twin twisters can effectively be a +4-5 for the opponent as their cards become live again.
I think you make a good observation. I would go one step further since you didn’t explicitly say it. Control decks nowadays can’t really be only control, they need an element of stun to keep up with combo decks. What is more efficient in slowing down your opponent? TCOBO, skill drain, gozen, etc. or solemn strike? At this point solemn strike really is just a gamma that costs you LP. I think it’s a sad reality that as time progresses we will see more elements of stun make its way into control decks. Anyway, great video! Don’t mind me. I’m just gonna set 3 TCOBO, macro, and final battle and beat you with guru on turn 10 and say “gg wp”
I enjoy control decks to be able to see the mythical turn 3 or beyond, also I think control and stun are 2 different thing, if your deck is just floodgates and barrier statues or fossil dino thats stun, but if you play like altergeist, krawler, true draco, dark magician, those are control decks.
This video was hilarious farfa :'D well done!
The people that complains about one floodgate is the people that sets up a board with multiple negates. Of course there is a lot of interactivity when every card in your hand gets negated if you go second and the game just ends.
You made me laugh, how dare you.
He not funny at all with any of this video like this with the funny talk n acting dumb I bet you like my younger sister thinking everything n anything is funny n laughing at everything
@@peteryanes9339 bruh why are you here If he ain't funny to you?
peter Yanes KEKW
@@peteryanes9339 why are you ugly?
I suppose because I run mystic mine in striker, I am a monkey with a single brain cell. However, try not to fall asleep watching dragon link doing their millenia-long combo challenge.
Nah m8, long as its not the focal point of your strategy its aight to run mine (tho it dont change the fact that mine's a broken card that needs to be banned).
Problem is when your whole deck is based around it castle defense style (except for jeff ofc).
i dont think this was the takeaway of the video, farfa just likes using hyperbole to add humour
Yes
Hey those combo are awsome, they took me months of theorizing, net decking, reasearch, and practice to excute them perfectly while playing through hand traps.
From a Dragon link player.
@@dalesabandal9113 I see it as combo minus the extra steps. Both end on "break my board, got an out bro?", only diff is spam has monsters with attack on the field.
That Pendulum bit gets me every time
Brushing teeth may be the best right now, but just you wait until showering gets released and flips over the entire meta!
You last 2 videos made my friend who insults me for playing Yu-Gi-Oh over MTG apologize
So thank you
Honestly if they insult you for playing a card game their biased. I've heard mtg has problems just like yugioh does. People get this .misconceptions that x card game is more balanced then y card game.
The truth of the matter is all card games will have problems like power creep it's a matter of how it handles it. They have to print better cards and new cards for the sake of metagame and making money. How a card game handles that is probably why people think x card game is good or bad.
@@Baby-Blue-102 I am aware of that it's them who refuse to listen
It's simple idiocy and that's all there is
quite possibly the most anticipated sequel of the year
здр
Yo I've never been a die hard fan of your channel but, from a video you made 2-3 years ago compared to this is light and day. I love to see how you've developed as a content creator and have learned to really incorporate yourself into your work. Your well on your way to 100k and I'm excited to be along the ride because 100k is not even the scratch on the iceberg of your potential. Amazing job farfa please keep it up. Dark Magician Mystic Mine turbo best deck btw lol
I had a Harpie/Vampire hybrid control deck I used to play on Dueling Network back before Kozmo was released (God that was so long ago). The deck was a sin unto decklists but actually picked up wins left and right, and was probably the biggest brain deck I've ever seen. Control decks are amazing when they rely more on subversion and manipulation as opposed to mindless stun spam. Letting things play out to the precise point you want, then stopping it just where you need it to be to play their own moves against them feels amazing. having fifteen flavors of "end your opponent's turn" on the board just feels like you pick a card at random between spoonfuls of glue.
well, clearly, the final conclusion is that yugioh takes no skill.
This guy gets it
Personally I think it takes skill but people are using all the right skills to goo all the wrong places....
Subliminal Scientist exactly 💯
Probably hasn’t since 2014-2015 at the latest.
Scrapyard Dragon
If you play Meta then no. Especially Mystic Mine and Dragoon. Those deck takes no skill.
YOOOO IS THAT A SECRET RARE SHIRT
Complete the series; what are your thoughts on mid-range decks?
My idiotic brain will never get sick of "LETS GOOOOO PENDULUM BEST DECK"
As a stun player Farfa, I am deeply offended. The fossil dyna Moon mirror shield combo is very skillful. This combo takes years of training and mental fortitude furthermore, this level of skill is only obtainable by being able to consume in one sitting all the of the different flavors of crayons 🖍 from the 128 pack of crayons. You will never understand the pain of running out glue at a locals. Don't you ever insult my stun deck combos ever again good sir.
I mean it takes shear willpower and determination to play altergeist for as long as doug has
Both well made and hilarious, well done BA player, well done
Getting back into yugioh think im gonna build a mystic mine deck now.
Activate extravagance for 6, set 5 pass.
Flip a floodgate, summon Multifaker from hand.
GG?
I mean, interaction in YuGiOh is arguably where the game is most fun, but with how powercrept the game is that is, with exception to casual matches, pretty nonexistent.
Combo decks provided they are uninterrupted essentially result in an FTK on the basis that they either end on an impossible number of negates, a towers like monster, or a monster floodgate, sometimes even a combination of the three.
Control / stun can be seen in a similar vein when sitting on multiple floodgates and traps that effectively do the same thing.
The commonality between these is that they’ve picked up on the key strategy of YuGiOh. The power level of individual cards has skyrocketed into absurdity to the point that even letting one card resolve can completely flip the game on it’s head, so the best strategy is to make sure that they cannot play the game. Very occasionally a deck will slip through like Aggro which simply aims to OTK through said boards, though these are few and far between.
I think that this discussion is interesting but ultimately puts players into a nightmarish state of lovecraftian enlightenment when they realise that on a competitive level and reduced to their base definition all decks aim to stop all interaction.
That's EXACTLY as a new player what I was thinking! It's like combo and stun/control are the same sides of the coin or a sword and a spear. Both effectively have similar end goals the only difference is the cards and how they get there.
God I love these random PENDULUMs they always make my day :D
IT'Z TE BAST DACK
I’m personally glad you brought back the monkey noises for Mine
Farfa: does some mental gymnastics to show that combo takes skill
Also farfa: control flip floodgates hehe XD
I think I know what deck Farfa plays
Farfa continues to spit facts while team Sam Rigs packs.
For legal reasons that’s a joke.
So you have made a video about Control and Combo, but would you consider there to be different types of those that are still viable? Other card games have "Aggro" for example. Is there something you'd feel like fits into that category? The only one I would think of would be something like Gren Maju or would you consider most OTK based decks just to be part of that genre?
I have a legit question, would you consider something like skill drain or nekroz of unicore to be a floodgate? To me unicore doesnt feel like one because it doesnt prevent them from summoning it just makes them have to prioritize a target. You have much more experience than I do so I was just wondering your thoughts on it.
Shaddoll and Salamangreat are great examples of skill-intensive control decks imo
Next video: burning abyss takes the most skill
It does! It is really hard to always mill 3 with dante ans hit graff, scarm and rhino!
Takes years and years of practise to always mill what you want
As someone who played rock stun for a significant amount of time I hard agree, baiting out and deciding the right effects to negate with the Koaki meru rocks made me feel like a pretty good Duelist but sometimes the game just boils down to Dyna moon mirror shield, I remember playing against a friend casually and his only backrow removal was in his extra deck so he had a hard time dealing with it and it didn't seem fun, I played a more casual RDA synchro deck and he had a lot more fun getting blown up and punched with a big red dragon.
The consistant uploads are awesome! Keep it please
I learned that meta decks are usually paint eating combos or floodgate pass
Mystic Mine takes no skill
Every other control deck takes skill :3
Somewhere I read that to win with a control deck consistently you need understand the opponents deck better than themselves. Or open the best floodgates, that works too.
Someone needs to make a compilation of Farfa imitating trif
I’d argue that stun is awful, and control is vital for a healthy format (as you did). What I find strange is the hate for Geist throughout the years from various people, because while it has been a meta deck for 3 or so years, it’s also been one of the only control decks in the last few formats that promotes interactivity. Most other meta control decks rely on floodgates to win, while Geist plays none.
last time i checked they played rivalry, summon limit and imperial order on the main deck
Altergeist also play floodgate cards like Imperial Order and Summon Limit.
The deck is too good at what it does imo. You'll get 2 interrupts live past turn one, plus whatever traps you get. So you pretty much have to break their board the first turn. The deck is also rather consistent, what with meluseek and spoofing letting you get to faker and what not. There are a few match ups where I'd say its fun, salad against geist can be rather fun. But most decks lose all hope of breaking the board past turn one.
@@shawnjavery yeah, if you let the deck get past turn 2 it will just plus 3 every turn, both yours and from opp
@@suezuccati304 from what I understand and read up on summon limits actually one of the more healthy floodgates compared to TCBOO and so on. It's just winda but trap card form to my knowledge.
Only the almighty Jeff Leonard should be allowed to play Mystic Mine.
No
Farfa, the most unlikely dunkey clone
I feel horrible now because of this video LOL
I play mystic mine to send a message
Reactive control decks take a lot of skill...
He talked about that...
Nobody that you know I know he did
That dunky reference got me hahaha
I love watching Farfa get briefly possessed by the soul of Triff
"Control decks take skill, until they turn into stun decks" is what you're saying here right?
Farfa, you need to understand there is a difference in playing yugioh and winning. Pick your poison.
Farfa, I would like to see a video with how you would errata every card on the ban list! Leggo!
Oh my gosh that white sweater looks so good on you!
I play altergeist with no floodgates (exepte imperial order) does it take skill
No. It’s altergeists
With Geist you rely on your knowledge of your opponent to win. Unless you open Order against Striker, Geist is skillful in the fact that you have to understand the meta.
@@maxwellabelson7794 no no no. Paleo frogs are skillful. Altergeist is imperm into multifaker and go off.
Wow yugioh is the opposite of Hearthstone...
because yugioh has real life cards, but no official online simulator?
@@frogthejam2472 Hearthstone is built around not taking action on your opponents turn, in Yu-Gi-Oh terms there are no Ignition effects only mandatory trigger effects.
@@frogthejam2472 Kinda, interaction on your opponents turn is a core aspect of Yu-Gi-Oh and an absolute no go in Hearthstone.
It's funny because in MtG, control decks are often the hardest to pilot optimally, picking when you need to/can tap out for a "dark hole" effect and when to hold up a counterspell, and so on.
This guys opinion is literal trash bro, he thinks playing solitare while your opponent watches because he didnt draw a hand trap is skillful gameplay
I got an ad for a chimpanzee haven before this. Huh
Agreed, floodgates like barrier statues should be permanently banned
I need an 10.000 words essay explanation from you, sir. Cause I dont understand your reason
for some reason i can have way more respect for someone trying to take 15 minutes of my life with adamancipator than a jackass setting 5 and/or mystic mine and passing
Bruh even other control players can't stand mine hahaha
Thank goodness. The feeling is mutual.
Love the dunkey reference
Thank you dunkey. Very cool
Very cool dunkey reference bb
That was a really good yoda impression...😳
Jeff leonard would be happy for the prisms secret slot mystic mine takes up in the mega tin
i think there are some fun floodgates but specifically when they aren't *too* powerful
when it feels more like interacting differently due to changed game state and less like directly removing a massive part of gameplay, it's an interesting and sometimes healthy floodgate
those are SUPER few and far between, and in modern yugioh it's almost impossible for one to be meta-relevant that's actually balanced, but going a little further back i think maybe jinzo or TER were fun examples that required some setup
both were still pretty powerful in their prime though, jinzo especially, so i could just be underestimating them
@@query2874 Jinzo was quite powerful, but the game was in a state where people still played plenty of targeted removal cards. Snatch Steal, Brain Control, Tsukuyomi, Night Assailant, etc. were cards that most people played in the main deck because they were very generally useful, and not used specifically as an out to one or two cards. Deck building has (d)evolved into making something that does one thing extremely well, and if it gets hard-countered it just loses. If that thing happens to be setting up negates, then it's probably the best deck in the game until it gets hit on the banlist. Spells and Traps are sidelined more than ever before because Monster effects just do everything you need them to nowadays.
Congratulations on reaching 100k subscribers
nice Dunkey reference at the end
You're saying it, chestnut boy!
Haircuts looking nice Farfa have a nice day