Water Wheels Are BETTER Than Steam Engines (Kind Of) - Create Mod SU generator comparison guide
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- čas přidán 6. 05. 2024
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Stress Unit generation is the most important part of Minecraft's Create Mod... but which one is the best for what situations and why are water wheels better than steam engines in most cases? In this guide to Create Mod Generators we'll take a look at each of their strengths and weaknesses in a tier list format in order to crown the King of Stress Unit generation - Hry
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I swear you get some of the weirdest sponsors for a minecraft youtuber, weren't you sponsored by a law firm once or twice too?
@@TrixterTheFemboynope lol! But SNHU is a returning friend of the channel
I have never played create and I have tried building steam engines, it wasn't as accesible as water wheels and the amount of different stuff you have to get like lava etc will be problematic if you're playing skyblock.
Lol noob lag np just add lava farm and add mod whit create straws then you can pump it in
Create Diesel Generators has entered the chat
I think you need to gather the supplies to make each one again but do it 5000 times each to account for RNG in world generation, this should only take several years
maybe run baritone? have it automatically collect resources and do it, for best-case scenario
@@fordalels No it has to be manual and consecutive
@@fordalels No because as the person above me said with baritone you either need to watch or record the entire process which would either A. Be tiring or B. Take up valuable storage space and still be tiring so manual to account for keeping track and world generation so using baritone would not really be viable either
@@emeryduhgamer
It has to be manual and consecutive. Period.
@@emeryduhgamerhe must do it manualy to ensure everything ie accounted for
the unit used is actually micro seconds per tick, so i assume "to calculate everything with this block you need x micro seconds per tick" normally minecraft wants to run at 20 ticks per second, this means that as long as your total "lag" isn't above 50 000μs/t you shouldn't experience any lag, of course this avoids how much it takes for minecraft to do its normal stuff
but multiplayers is miltiply the lag
Do you maybe happend to know what mod adds this?
@@karoll2914are you asking about the water wheels and steam engine or something else?
@@J0hnB09 I'm asking what adds the lag meter
@@ShiroCh_IDuhhh i can see the thought process but no
A problem with that perspective is:
- you play the first few hours with water wheels and then you have every resource to build a steam engine everywhere you need it.
- a windmill is not for efficiency but for looks. Also you can pluck it directly onto a crop/ wood farm to make it move without lost space.
- at later stages you will have infinite lava in the offer world and in addition you have to calculate lag impact per SU, not per space. This bucket refiller has nearly no impact per SU. You need one of them (and not at 256 rpm) for a large steam engine (100k+ SU). Calculate the lag for 200+ large water wheels.
In addition to that, whatever you do with the 100k SU will likely generate MUCH more lag than this steam engine setup, so that doesn't really matter that much.
These have just different use cases.
It's like saying, "which car is better, a semi truck, a sports car or a small car like a smart/ mini etc.?" - as it is most often, it depends.
Nothing against the video though, just my rant plus engagement for the algorithm.
I agree fully with you, this is exactly what my thoughts are!
I mean if filling them is the problem sure in base you'll have to do the hand but in many mod packs you can just pluck a pipe into them
he missed the furnace engine that was deleted on 5.0
I haven't personally done it but the windmill can be made part of the decor. Make the wool colored and look like a globe or other statue then you can "hide" it as part of a decorative park/feature. That said, totally agree with you!
And now I know my plan for power when I finally upgrade my computer to be able to handle Create, thank you random stranger on the internet.
I built a paddle steamer base where the "waterwheels" were actually windmills made of red wool :D
@@danatronics9039did you know if you put a plank in your offhand and right click on a water wheel you can change its color
Same for the water wheels. They make a nice moving component in builds.
the only reason i've ever used windmills over water wheels is to build giant windmill structures as decoration. never worth it!
Arcane Engineering configuring windmills to work with a single sail was honestly pretty useful for small fan setups. They only need minimal rotation to cook/wash stuff anyway, so an independent 2-block solution (especially in situations where you definitely wouldn't want flowing water around) came in handy many times.
Good tip
Running arcane right now and haven't really felt like getting into windmills. But getting power to a fan with only two blocks is really good.
Isn't that what a fan on top of a magma block is for? A bit more expensive though...
@@dahelmang That was taken out ages ago
@@teasdaye ah ok. It helps if you prefer 1.16 anyway.
this modpack have starbucle wheel.........
I always use infinite lava sources to power my boilers, and use them for all my stress needs. I got tired of charcoal farms dying when they were out of random tick range. And I had problems with water wheels causing a lot of client side lag because of all the moving geometry.
I use quarries to dig giant shafts down to bedrock and fill the gaps in the walls with cobble, then I use hose pulleys to fill the pit with lava pumped from my previous infinite lava source. Now I have power wherever I need it.
wait, does infinite lava source with hose also works in overworld?
@@ShiroCh_ID It works with any fluid if there are enough connected.
@@ShiroCh_IDcreate considers a pool of 10.000 blocks of any liquid an infinite source, it works in all dimensions
@@bruhmomento3007 Me with a pool of only 9999 lavablocks, not figuring out why its not working: 🤔🤔🤔😤😤😤
I have always loved Water Wheels and Windmills, though windmills are just as much for aesthetics. That said, being able to have wheels buried in an underground pit and running a line to what I need powered is always a good thing.
If you struggle with getting blaze burners, you can actually just right click a blaze spawner with the empty burner and get one so you can do it in peaceful. It doesn't use the spawner up either.
the problem isnt in getting blazes, you'll find them from a spawner anyways. the issue is finding a FORTRESS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
@@koiledPythonRain if you have a map mod like journeymap the fortresses are usually pretty easy to find. there's also the structure compass if you aren't against a little cheaty feel. But I agree, fortresses are annoying if all you have installed is create.
@@koiledPythonRain chunkbase is a free website that will show you where everything is
@@koiledPythonRain You need to find a fortress anyway for brass items
@@Bookslayer10 yes, that too
6:35 That windmill design could absolutely be compacted down to half the size or even less by just filling out the 3x3. And since the blocks become entities once the windmill is spinning, you can place new blocks in there, meaning it doesn't take up any space.
ikr
windmill are also infinitely scalable since you can just place another windmill bearing. If hes saying that they aren't scalable because you need multiple windmills beyond 8192su then surely waterwheels are terrible for scalability cus to get more than 512 you need more waterwheels.
@@lord_scrubington the waterwheels can also be compacted as he showed, also compatcting windmills into each other isnt safe because if for whatever reason the bearings turn off the windmills will all destroy each other as create will destroy blocks inside of blocks when stopped, thus using that method for saving space isnt really a valid way to score it especially since rejoining a world often causes the machines to stop for a second
@@XiaoYueMao even when compacted I don't think they are smaller than a space efficient windmill
@@lord_scrubington from what i understand about the waterwheel,s a 3x8x3 area of waterwheels make 16k su, with 0 blocks wasted
@@mr.battlecats5512 You are absolutely correct.
You could even compact it more. to columns of 3 water wheels with a single source block between the top two would fit 6 powered wheels in a 3x3.
You can drop the "min" even lower on the steam (Unless the newest version changed it), you can put it above a campfire, or lava. You can completely skip the blaze at stage 1.
If only windmills were good.... Personally, I would absolutely love if they had actual wind mechanics - for instance, upwards facing windmills will get more stress units if above heat sources. Face a fan towards a windmill and it will make the windmill spin faster - without increasing the SU. This would also give a use for fans with high RPM, since currently the only use is range.. which doesn't matter if you get advanced enough tech.
oooh that would be really really cool!
This is kinda like old create mod versions, where encased fans could be placed facing a campfire or magma block and powered by redstone to output stress units out the back.
I personally LOVE windmills for spinning farms, because you have large gaps in the spinner anyway, and if you fill them with sails now it runs itself and does not need any power
@@kenbaird7454 it’s true, but at the same time it sacrifices speed - unless you have a huge farm or make a wall of sail/wool blocks… usually (esp earlygame) its much easier to make a farm which uses a mechanical bearing and waterwheel - and have it run at a decent speed too! specifically best for trees farms
@@fordalelsI personally ususally make a MASSIVE rotary farm with multiple rings, so there will be a tree ring, a normal crops ring, maybe even a melon and pumpkin ring, etc. And this powers all that for no SU cost, and even outputs a decent amount of SU for belts
Bro got sponsored by a collage.
These replies are rather strange, perhaps they should study in a collage.
ege
Collage - An artistic composition of materials and objects pasted over a surface, often with unifying lines and color.
College - An institution of higher learning that grants the bachelor's degree in liberal arts or science or both.
Bro
I think this is a call to action for you to further your education.
University*
College*
Shoutout to youtubers who make sponsors a different chapter so you can skip them. You guys rock
The thing about windmills taking up vertical space is that you can fit more in a single chunk, which is good if you have limited simulation distance. Giving them an F feels a little harsh, but to each their own. 🙂
Vertical water wheels, or vertical passive steam engine arrays would use that space more efficiently.
so can waterwheels, remember that same 32 block distance that waterwheels got, was if all spread in 1 line, but they can be compacted into that 2x2 orientation quite easily and only extend like 5 blocks, waterwheels can also be oriented vertically
but the reason for its low score ISNT its size, its due to size and SU ration, the windmills is EXACTLY as large as an un-compacted waterwheel setup but for that same size gives HALF the SUs... its trash sorry
I agree that windmills are "meh" most of the time, with two exceptions... when I am making spinning tree, kelp, or crop farms OR need a small bit of power for something in the nether (where you can't have water), I do like windmills. As for Tree/Crop/Kelp farms, the nice thing about using a windmill is that, if you use a windmill bearing instead of a mechanical bearing, the arm that you attach all your mechanical saws, harvesters, storage blocks, and portable interfaces to can simply be made of wool and then the arm itself IS the sail. Additionally, the farm then generates the items AND a bit of power to run things like belts, sorting-system, or simple resource processing (such as a wheat farm that auto-processes the wheat into bread or sweet rolls right away). Essentially making a windmill option for a farm be the most space efficient since it literally takes up ZERO additional blocks beyond what the contraption would normally require.
As for building in the nether, you could power the water wheels with lava instead of water, but that can be dangerous if you have firetick enabled and are building out of any flammable materials or are playing in hardcore where you are probably trying to mitigate risk of getting dead.
Well, wouldn't you know it, we can use water wheels in the nether. Power them with lava instead XD there is an hidden achievement for that.
Edit: I must admit that I found this totally by accident.
@@vcool122 LOL, me too bro, i was like, interesting, would it burn down the wheel if i place lava instead of water and BOOM, all worked out absolutely fine! Was building lava drain system, just to speed up lava gathering process (system with couldrons was waay slower then i needed to)
If you're building out of flammable materials in the nether, water wheels aren't the problem...
Windmills are way more aesthetic
Well, considering many people play with a modpack, I think a mention would be in place that you do not need to power the steam engines with the robotic arm. Unless you're playing the "vanilla" Create. There are addons in place that allow you to power the blaze burners with piped in liquid fuel, which I believe has much less impact on tps.
I know this video aims to compare the power sources in a context of the Create mod, just thought this would be worth mentioning given how people are likely playing modpacks rather than a single mod :)
With the Create: Craft & Additions addon (iirc), you can make blaze fuel by pressing excess seeds from automated farms
you can power steam engines with campfires, you can pump water to a single one with a waterwheel and use that one engine to pump other 16 (or 32 i forgor) engines that also use campfires, and you got a ton of free SU
unfueled blaze burners also count as level 1 heat (same as a campfire) meaning that he did not even have to fuel that one to get the optimal results.
@@gammaboy4568 do lava or magma blocks count as heat and if so are they greater than campfires? (i would assume lava is hotter than a campfire lol)
@@XiaoYueMao actually never tested that, and my guess is possibly no. It also would not likely contribute more heat, as mechanically the point is that blaze burners are a requirement for higher heat levels. If lava does happen to contribute more heat, feel free to let us all know-- definitely a more useful feature, in that case.
@@gammaboy4568 anything except to blaze burners is a level 0 heat (passive)
fueled blaze burner is 1 (heated)
superheated blaze burner is 2 (superheated)
The numbers you see are microseconds per tick needed to calculate that block. Meaning the processor has to do that amount of microseconds of calculations to update a tick of that block.
Generally speaking the values you see are still very low (hence green) but they add up.
But what mod add this?
Ye but if you’re smart you’d have a infinite lava source long before there’s be any lag
I like Windmills the most. You can make large moving art pieces that power your stuff without anything extra. You set it up and its done. Only limitation I have found is lag if you put too many too close together.
I definitely think that steam engines could be bumped a bit higher on lag. Like realistically speaking one doesn’t *need* to make a laggy cauldron lava farm, and even if you did you could maaaayyyybe make an infinite lava source but that bumps the space efficiency way way down lol. You could use charcoal from an already nearby wood factory, you could use maybe autocrafting all those spare sticks into ladders to fetch you some extra burn time from just an ordinary tree farm, heck you could even use eggs (but that’s probably way laggier tbh lmao). Either way for us with potatoes I’m glad you’ve done all this testing in one video. Now I know, water wheels are the best wheels
The lag is absolutely overlooked, because bro doesn't know what a microsecond is. It's really small. There's like 50k of them in single tick, so ~100 that steam engine wastes is not a big deal
@@noelka8134 you apparently don't understand that these arent the only things that will be causing lag. You make these to power machines. It's a compounding thing. Everything adds up. In a vacuum sure, there's no problem. Now add all your other machines.
@@CubeInspector i don't think you'll ever need more than one max level steam engine can produce. Create doesn't actually need big amounts of power, unless you're making giant factories that produce every possible item, but at this point i wonder why you're playing minecraft, and not factorio or satisfactory or whatever else. In most other cases you need very little power to run your crafting machines, and everything else is done with contraptions and/or trains, which don't need any power at all.
@@noelka8134 Lag is a very big issue for a lot of players, especially on servers, and when they are making automated bases with tons of crushing wheels, fans, crafters, presses, whisks, elevators, pipes, and whatever else. You need tons of SU to run all that stuff at max capacity.
Maybe instead of judging players because they decide to fully engage with the content of a tech mod, you can learn how Satisfactory isn't even a real automation game. Create has better automation gameplay than Satisfactory's miles of repetitive manifold designs, and Minecraft is also obviously better when it comes to the exploration and base building.
@@Bookslayer10 if you want to play automation, factorio is obviously better, because it won't lag even on the potato pc pretty much ever (you need a REALLY large base to decrease your UPS). If you want to play automation, exploration, base buliding and whatever else minecraft is at the same time, well, prepare your CPU, it'll hurt.
Also video doesn't mention lag being created by other ways of getting energy, as well as all the other machines in create, which i'm sure is also an issue. At least mechanical hands were shown to be somewhat laggy, and they're used very often in complicated automation.
one passive generated boiler, no blaze burners needed, is only 4 copper tanks, one steam engine, and a campfire to provide 2048 su, so you could get a fairly compact setup with, say... row of 4x passive steam boiler columns, then a row row of space / water transport, and then another row of 4x passive, and get that 16384 SU while taking up an absurdly small amount of space, it would just be more expensive in some ways, and then you could use the components later on when you DO get the blaze burners
2048su... so... 4 large water wheels in a row...
@@mrShift_0044 Which take up 36 cubic blocks and require a water source. Passive generator with a magma cube or some other source only needs 5, but uses up some water and the SU for that, which is negligible, especially with how easy it is to make a wall of them. you can place them side by side, and as long as you don't make any 2*2 sections from above you can place them really compact manners, like rows of them 1 block apart. So each area the size of say 8 wheels tall(4096su, for the heat, 4 boilers, engine, gap, shaft) would produce 12k SU. You could fit the water sources and pump between the engines too, or attach them to your central water system you might use for other stuff.
@@mrShift_0044 Yup, you've got it! 2048 is 512 x 4, one smallest passive steam boiler is equivalent to four large water wheels, that's correct, you can use either of those setups to get the same amount of stress, try it out!
requires much more setup compared to using wood a shaft and a water bucket 4x
@@somo4227 Oh yeah if it's too much for you I don't blame you. You gotta play however is most comfortable for you.
This feels like factorio, where solar panels and accumulators are the best UPS-wise, and nuclear reactors are bad in the long run for UPS.
Windmills are fun to have in builds. Might not be the best for stress generation, but you can make some really nice looking windmills
Absolutely! The decoration aspect of windmills is peak
The lag issue of lvl.9 steam engines can be solved by the stuffs addon mod that lets you feed lava directly into blaze burners, no funnels/arms needed
What's the exact name of the mod?
@@Markovia21 The create crafts and addons mod adds the straws, and the create diesel generators mod offer an "easy" way to automate a superheating fuel, by oil refining
@@jackgamer6307 thank you!
Small water wheels are very power dense. In a 15x15x3 area, with small waterwheels, 14,080 SU, near zero us/t. 6x6x3 x4 unused spaces within that area. 1 water source block, 56 small water wheels, 56 gearboxes, 104 filler blocks (glass?). Looks like a giant plus symbol laying on the ground. can be repeated vertically with direct contact power is coupled automatically. Raw cost: 196 andesite, 22 iron/zinc, 392 logs, 104 sand.
i believe theres a mod thatll help mitigate some of the lava production lag for the boilers. i cant remember what its called, but it basically adds straws that you can give to the blazes that let you pipe lava directly into them, so you dont need the arms and buckets, or a blaze cake farm
I think it's Create: Stuff and Additions that adds the rolling thing that turns bamboo into straws and therefore allows you to pump lava directly into blaze burners, dunno if that's the mod it actually is from since the mod page doesn't mention it but it's a mod that adds a lot of stuff so who knows
@@DarkXWolf17-If-yk-yk Create: Crafts & Additions, according to several modpacks I use
@@hawkings22 Yup, mb. I was pretty close though, didn't realize there were two mods that had almost the exact same name
Waterwheels go at 8 and 4 RPM, not 16 and 8. Not that it makes a big difference ^^
I'd add against windmills that that their speed is reliant on the number of sails you have, which makes them quite annoying to work with when you don't have max sails
Ooooh very true! Got my RMPS all funny!
I like how no1 is talking abt bro getting sponsored by a collage
as space is typically at a premium, I agree with the idea that the water wheel is the meta, my early game setup is currently fully large water wheel powered. currently have an array generating 20k SU and its powering a pair of elevators and my neighbors small infinite iron machine. its simple to set up, easy to scale without needing to add shafts or gears to merge outputs. when I need more SU I just expand the power cave and extend the waterwheel basin
One thing to consider is the passive steam engine. Batsys has a design that fit into a pretty small space and still have 16k stress
It's so inefficient that you can make it powered and recive the stress units tenfold.
@@mrShift_0044 passive steam engines can be powered with a campfire so can be used pre-nether
Agreed. I've used passive steam engines quite a bit and it's space and lag effective without the Nether. Bonus for the steam engine is that you _can_ scale it up to blaze-powered mid-/late- game if you desire. Double bonus if there's a mod like Supplementaries which allows for VERY compact infinite water generation/delivery.
Hi Dejojo!! i love your arcane engineering sseries and am currently watching it! glad to be here early!
actually crazy a college has sponsored stuff like this, keep it up
Using the "shared water source" trick with small water wheels would allow for 4 small water wheels in a 3x3 space with one source block. It would cost a bit more with the shafts, but you could effectively get to 16k with 8 layers of this setup.
Thank you for this video, it honestly just made me realize a lot of powerful stuff. :D
Foxynotail video on lag for create was insane. I kept having problem with lavas in my steam engine so I just put a small tree farm on everyone to feed it charcoal
no way a minecraft youtuber is being sponsored by a university
Adding 1/4 blocks for water, since multiple water wheels can use the same source and you cant do more than 5 because it needs to flow, but 4 because its more tileable, the normal water wheels would be the most space-efficient.
Normal water wheel: 1.25 blocks
Large water wheels: 9.25 blocks
Normal water wheel: 204.8 SU/block
Large water wheel: 55.35 SU/block
Now, let's compare these to steam engines: (assuming we're using an infinite lava source)
Level 9 steam engines, 147,456 SU, take: 36(boiler), + 18(shafts and engines) + 9(blaze burners) + 1(water pump) + 1(water source blocks, assuming same 2x2 source used for 4 engines) + 1(mechanical arm) + 8(lava spout fill cycle) + 1(lava pump) +1(rope pulley) +4(fluid pupes) = 80 blocks, ignoring the space for the infinite lava source.
Therefore: steam engines = 1,843.2 SU/block.
So while they are Significantly more space efficient, around 9x as much as small water wheels, this requires a 10k block lava source.
So untill you need ~2.36 million SU, small water wheels would be more space efficient.
(And this isnt 2.304 million SU because you can't have a partial steam engine.)
Massive lava sources are fairly easy to get by either making a nether factory or bringing it in via train, and I personally turn down the "blocks needed to be considered infinite" a lot to allow using large lava lakes in the overworld for sources
12:55 The unit Observable is using is microsecond (µs) and 100µs (estimated total of lag) isn't that much, you would need about 500 steam engines (100µs-lag-generating sources) to start to cause damage to the server (1tick of lag per tick), of course that is only considering the amount of lag produced by the steam engine, realistically about 200, which is way more then you would ever realistically build imo. So Steam Engines might be less lag-efficient but I wouldn't rate Steam Engines a C tier (15:42), at most a B but most probably A (with 0-lag sources at S).
In short: whatever you need the power from a steam engine is more laggy than a steam boiler you built to power it.
I admittedly forgot to better clarify that steam engines get laggy the more of them you have loaded so they're most server killers than anything, that's definitely my bad
for someone who sounds all high and mighty, you could figure out that μs/t means microseconds per tick
He doesn't even understand how SU works! If you use gears, a speed controller, etc. to increase the speed of a large water wheel, the SU is still 512, it doesn't decrease when you increase the speed. Components use more SU at a higher speed, but changing the speed doesn't affect the stress capacity of the system. If you double the speed of a large water wheel you get 8 RPM 512 SU, which is twice as powerful as the 8 RPM 256 SU of a regular water wheel. Oh yeah, and he also got the water wheel speeds wrong!
@@AJ-Palermo he also said that large water wheels are more cost effective because you dont use shafts in the crafting recipe, which was annoyingly stupid because you need to make a small water wheel to make a big one, which means you have to spend a shaft and 8 planks, and then 8 more planks for the same power output and more required space. how did he get sponsored by a university? 😂
@@9_1.1it is more cost effective since you get 2x more SU for the same amount of shafts, and you get 1.5x more SU per shaft and the same speed if you attach a small wheel to it
Very new to create, but if I may offer a counter argument, technical space VS applied space. The wind mill loses for technical but might arguably win In application. The water wheel requires fairly rigid set up, and the configuration showed first could be hard to work around, while the wind mill can be be pointed anywhere. Follow up, water in any form requires some level of either containment or compensation in build plans, and it should be easier to send a wind mill straight upward than water. If the base is laid out in a vertical manner, with limited space, the windmill may actually beat the water wheel. If anyone disagrees feel free to let me know
I think each have their uses. For example, we have oak tree farms running off windmills, because they don't require that many SU and they just run constantly. I like water wheels also as a cheap and quick way to get *some* power to separate things. But then I have a Steam Engine to power the Alternators, 4 of which requiring 64k SU and that is just barely enough to power my current AE2 setup. We also have a separate Steam Engine for an infinite redstone farm, and two 8x radius Oak farms are just barely enough to power it constantly. We are looking into Blaze Cakes.
in fact, in newer version of minecraft, string is a duplicable resource, which make gathering wool less annoying (if you approve duplication)
The water wheel and large water wheel are not effectively the same. The SU stays the same when you change the speed. The water wheel produces 256 SU at 8 RPM, and the large water wheel produces 512 SU at 4 RPM. If you use gears, a rotational speed controller, etc. to double the speed of the large water wheel, it produces 512 SU at 8 RPM, double the SU of the regular water wheel. Components (mixers, drills, etc) use more SU at a higher speed, so yes, you effectively get more SU at a lower speed, but it doesn't change the stress capacity of the system, only the stress units required by the component
Being sponsored by a University is really fucking cool. Congrats!!
Thank you!
I had a playthrough with my bf and some of our friends where we were playing with a fair number of mods including lots of fun lil steam engine things, this was in a version with out the beeg boi steam engine though, but at the same time the small ones work really well... that being said, we also were running project E and other mods like that so a majority of the stress units I have generated has been through solar collectors attached to matter condensers endlessly fueling and feeding a blast furnace with items to smelt that then recycles said smelted items back into the loop with the blast furnace attached to a furnace powered engine. lol
But even with that, I still have so many spots in my labrynth that is powered with the old medium sized water wheels. XD
you could say this is revolutionary!
Good one
Note! The steam engine is in fact easier than the water wheel for time efficiency! in newer (and perhaps many older) versions of create mod, the steam engine can be powered with 1 heat level (2048su) in a minimal engine with a CAMP FIRE. only one campfire is necassary and means the power source is almost cheaper than the water wheel itself in terms of resources.
All new and most intermediate create mod players may view this as a godsend if you didn't know about it before, it's viable up until you can get a lava farm going which needs brass and blaze burners anyway.
Hope somebody found this useful.
I feel like you miss the utility of windmills - they're the easiest way to set up earlygame farms because they power themselves, meaning you can attach them to things like harvesters and deployers without worrying about power generation other than the initial 4 wool cost. (And if you can afford a simple farm... you can afford shears.)
Since we're already playing with mods, may I recommend the Create: Liquid Fuel mod to somewhat deal with the lag issue with the steam engine, as it allows you to pump fuel directly into the blaze burners
Windmills are only bulky when they're static or if you care about aesthetics (in which case you probably want a big spinning structure in the middle of your base anyway), once they're spinning you can build right through them
Trying to lean Create maxes out my stress units. 😅
This video was actually very informative though and already has rebooting up my Minecraft world again. I will be back for more. 😈
wow that is very helpful for my create series on my channel i will tag you when the video comes out
I'll name the advantages of windmills. Let's start with the fact that you can glue various useful things to the structure, which allows you to harvest free of charge, as well as produce energy. Windmills will work even in the lower world (water wheels can also work from lava, but steam engines will need a supply of water), windmills are well suited for complex mobile things, such as a 3D printer (it's possible, I managed to do it and it really prints the diagram, but can't put mechanical belts. Few people know, but by placing the scheme in the deployer filter slot, it will print). You can also touch on internal combustion engines from Create TFMG and electric motors from Create Crafts Additions. Small ICEs are compact and fast, which saves a lot of space. Oil is required, but in reality, when processing it, one way or another you will get different products that need to be put somewhere, and in fact there is a lot of oil itself. A large engine is a serious source of energy, but takes up more space and is more complex overall. All ICEs operate in the nether world (pun intended). Electric motors essentially release stored energy rather than produce it, but can also be used to conveniently transfer power and are useful in the nether world. You can build a train that will change batteries at your base in hell, and you can also increase the load without any problems, but then the charge will disappear faster. Both of these options will look good on the worldshell from CSim (Create Aeronautics, Offroad Expansion, Liftoff and more), and now Create Interactive has appeared, so you can make yourself a base on a train, where there will be a rail factory
an easy potential way to solve the laggy steam engine problem is the Liquid Fuel addon. Allows you to pump the liquid lava directly in, eliminating the depot mechanical arm and the need to circulate the bucket.
Windmills look cool and they're easy to place.
They can scale down to be smaller than most decent looking waterwheel setups when you account for water, containment, and decoration. Decent for exposed, low power mechanisms in awkward places, and the easiest way to build a rotating contraption.
That's the only niche I think fits them.
For me the main use for windmills is if I need rotation in a contraption. Using a rotational bearing and hooking it to power takes energy from my supply. Building a windmill provides the rotation directly as my contraption can just be built directly on the windmill, and the windmill will still generate power even with the contraption attached.
So I've only played Create on a modpack where the owner of the pack would make some things needlessly more difficult to craft (including mechanical arms) and I also have no clue how mechanical arms actually work, so my solution was to put 32 3x3x3 steam engines (two stacks of 16) all in parallel and make a pretty goofy amount of SU through that. I called it the Torque Generator and iirc it had like 64k SU but idr. I never got crazy far into that world, but I was pretty happy with it and never even approached that limit.
Keep in mind that windmills can be the contraption itself: many sweeping arm contraptions can use a windmill bearing instead of a mechanical bearing, and not need a power source.
Very true! But this video was about SU generation so it didn’t really fit the theme
I remember another mod years ago, which also had water wheels (and other energy sources), power transmission via wires and many tools using that power, like ore diggers (each/some chunks had particular "ore veins" which could be extracted for some amount).
Basically I built a few chunks of water wheels, and even though they couldnt provide enough power continuously, because of the server working 24/7 they outperformed any other players' manually maintained energy sources and the admin had to cap the number of ores per chunk not to be too OP xD
Or how I auto-drained the nether lava lake to power something from Botania IIRC, lmao. Good times.
Was that immersive engineering?
you can also use any other heat source such as fire or lava if you arent confident with getting a blaze, however it produces way less power
Lets say it like this. For me as an aesthetic builder, Windmills and Steam engines deserve S tier just bcuz of the looks, water wheels really have to sit somewhere in the mountains or a waterfall to look good
dunno if they removed this feature but smaller steam engines can be powered with a campfire, doesn't even cost any extra fuel beyond that, the blaze burner is just if you want more power in exchange for having to keep it fueled
I also think that windmills are kind of expensive early game for their andesite cost. For the 16000 su, you need a whole stack of andesite where as water wheels, you only need 8 andesites. I'm just as surprised. 8 andesite makes 32 shafts. Each shaft makes 1 water wheel, for a total of 32 water wheels. You just need to get chopping and get 16 wood per water wheel. Which comes out to be 8 stacks of wood or 2 stacks of logs. With an average tree size of 5 logs, you just need to cut down around 26 trees. Windmills still need sticks with 1 stick per sail, you need 2 stacks of sticks or 64 planks. I guess it really depends on whether you want to go mine for iron, or cut trees down.
As a very simple solution to the lag machine you attach to your steam engines, there is this thing in create called straws… you put them on your blaze burners so they can receive fluids as a power source and feed your lava i put directly into them with pipes, no fancy bucket setup required, no lag involved… straws are dirt cheap as well btw
Water wheels and steam engines are great, but cut windmills a little slack! With a good sheep farm, you can pump those things out just as easily as water wheels, they're great if you don't have a lot of space in one direction (building on an island or underground), they work in the nether (unlike water wheels) and they're just as scaleable as water wheels (If you need more, you just build another one). I think they're a perfect popup power source, and waay more versatile than it first may seem. I'd argue they're a little easier than Water Wheels to set up, once you have the resources, just because you don't have to deal with containing water, which is great if you just need to quickly setup a workshop or factory with minimal impact on your surroundings.
windmill bearings are what i used for my portable chunk miner design, since theyre able to be picked up by a minecart with the rest of everything
this also looks at create in a vacuum with no addons or other mods, the lag impact of the steam engine can be reduced drastically when you have other options for powering the blaze burners (especially when you take into account that you are generating some other resource that you are likely not just using for kinetic power).
A 10000 block Lava reservoir or a medium sized wood/kelp farm is enough to power a lvl9 boiler indefenetely, and the amount of lag per power generated is miniscule!
@@mrShift_0044 im moreso referring to the mechanical arm used to apply it. that whole depot shenanigans was the part making the most lag. if you were able to pipe fluids into the burners, it would cut the bucket step entirely, removing the most laggy parts of the setup.
I was in the middle of hammering out a steam engine plan in creative. I am now completely switching to water wheels because I could not care less about the space issue (hellooooooo superflat) and the steam engine's costs are difficult to manage in the modpack I'm playing. I've always thought they were relatively meh, but consider me converted.
God I wish windmills were better. Such an opportunity for colorful fun, and yet.
i did not know that funny trick with the small water wheel to speed it up. thank you
Hey dude did you know you can make your steam power generation much more compact by replacing some of the tanks with blaze burners as long as the sections of the tank stay connected with at least one tank, you can literally put way more blaze burners in a 3*3 tank and this will allow you to max out the stress generation without using the advanced stuff for the burners
Feel free to try it, it might enhance your factories
I believe that one of the criterias should have been aesthetically pleasing. Like whenever someone is trying to build a really nice looking world things that actually look nice inside
actually windmills are mechanical bearings that dont need you to make a rotation source for the millionth time, you can make both cactus and kelp farms with it, and even make wheat farms if you want to
One thing that makes steam engines so powerful is the highest tier produces just ungodly amounts of SU and takes up so little space (by itself). The biggest issue with it is the need to refuel which means a fully functional blaze cake farm and feeding setup. Figuring out the numbers as you did makes total sense, but when you only need 1 power source for such huge factories steam engines for me will always be the best.
Just to add, Water wheels whlie can be glued to contraptions, the source water block is not movable. So without the extra infrastructure for a full tier steam engine (e.g. a Tier one or two with just a blaze burner, tank(2x, one source/one steam), crank and shaft) then we have a fully movable source of rotational power that surprising works great on trains.
11:20 the seed RNG thing is so true, the closest fortress on my server is 1000 blocks out
i added a silk touch spawner mod because I do not want to make that hike every single time I want to get more blaze burners or powder
dejojo you can cut the time for the steam even further if you make camp fires, and if need be just make more. Copper is easy to come by so the only real issue is the iron and gold, and even that is basically nothing.
I have built a 10,000,000su plant with only passive boilers. It only took 3 towers up to world height lol
@@naberville3305 It's totally worth the cost of 109 thousand copper blocks, andesite alloy and 30000 campfires just to NOT set up a piss cheap kelp/wood farm and smelter that will power a level 9 boiler indefenetely.
I didn't include the campfires one cause honestly it's not worth the time investment over water wheels
@@mrShift_0044 but then I wouldn't be able to brag about building 10 million SU with passive boilers.
I did not expect a literal college to sponsor a minecraft video at all. I’m both impressed and scared
problem with these tests is stress units is also depends on RPM a wheel turning at 16 with 256SU when slowed down to 8RPM with a speed controller will produce 512SU
.......im pretty sure it doesnt work like that
@@kenbaird7454 it doesn't, but they're not far off. Changing the speed keeps the stress capacity the same, but components use more SU at a higher speed.
@@AJ-Palermo While that is true, the speed does not actually effect the energy generated, only the energy consumed, so the issue they brought up isn't actually an issue.
@@kenbaird7454 you can understand their confusion tho, in real life you can sacrifice speed for torque or vice versa, it seems SUs are measured similarly to horsepower, but some people assume it represents torque.
@@9_1.1 Yeah, I can see that. Although I am glad the create mod devs decided to make it simple, and just have it be a measurement similar to Joules, representing total energy created, instead of making you calculate the torque for different speeds
As someone who has only played in versions without big water wheels or steam engines, windmill is the best. For every water wheel you need to craft them (annoying in large scale) get sould sand to maximize the speed and completely cover them with water, which is annoying and takes up so much space. The other option was a flywheel but having to make a farm to power something was very annoying. For windmills, they were basically free since you can find bearings in structures (create above and beyond) and wool is easy to get (doesnt take very long since so many sheep are next to my base) and you only need 2 stacks for each. Much more convenient than the other options. I used 5 of them to power my beggining factory. Im not sure about late game though.
Doesn't work that way anymore. Flywheels are now decorations and waterwheels give their full speed and SU from touching a single running water block. Hence why the three water wheel setup shown works at full efficiency.
with your testing, i recommend getting everything into the same speed, then measuring the SU, as 16k Su at 32rpm is 4x better than 16k Su at 8rpm
So I thought the same way but just to be sure I tested it and it doesn't actually seem like that's the case. I put together two identical setups with an encased fan leading to a rotation speed controller set to 256. You can run it with a single large wheel or two small wheels. Doubling the speed does double the SU but that's not related to the stress source, all that changes is the machines needed to get up to speed.
you can automate waterwheel production AND placement. they can be placed in a straight line. ill let you think about what you can do with these 2 tiny details.
You don't need buckets for blaze burners. If you also have Create: Crafts and Additions (which most people do) you can give burners straws, allowing you to pump lava directly into them, allowing you to skip the entire bucket process
I feel like I have to disagree with the accessibility rating for steam engines. They are on the level of windmills, if not below them, because for them to be self sufficient, you need a whole other machine set up. Whether you are using a tree farm that makes charcoal, or a lava farm supplying buckets, you have to make a whole station to power your power generator, which will cost space, time, and resources to make. With windmills, you just farm some sheep, get the wool, place the blocks. With waterwheels you make an infinite water source and pour it over the wheels. Much more straightforward, and much less thought goes into these two than figuring out the ideal way of feeding the machine its resources. That being said though the payoff is worth it for the giant amount of stress units it creates
About water wheels and lag:
for most servers, the lag impact actually barely mater for the feeding mechanism. Most of your farms will be causing 999 fold the amount of lag impact
Meanwhile, water wheels are the devil in terms of another performance issue. Graphical rendering. Thankfully in the world of sodum and other performance mods this isn't as terrible as could be
but go ahead, place 50 water wheels, power them and see what happens
See how well your game will run when you *look* in it's direction, even with performance mods gahah
You could put the water wheels in a remote place, but then you'd need either an electricity or ender SU transportation addons to take that power far away from player loaded chunks, and instead use another addon to load the chunks (or use nether portals)
And y'know, loading a raw chunk far away probably causes more lag than the feeding mechanism
Even better, this assumes you even have access to addons, because if you have any addons you can just make blaze burners accept liquids which completely gets rid of the performance issues
Also the sails are more scalable and more efficient!
If you fill the space right, you can store 8192su using 129 blocks (128 sails+bearring)
14 water wheels use up 126 blocks excluding the water. assuming that you need at least a single block of flowing water, so let's say you stack two water wheels on one another another to make a 3(2*3+1)*X ("3" is width of the water wheels, "2" is the number of water wheels per row, the second "3" is the height of a single water wheel and the "1" is the empty space you need between the wheels for the water to flow, while X is the number of rows you want. in that case we want 6 rows of 2 water wheels which is 3*7*6 which is ALSO 126 blocks, exactly!
Alright so within 126 blocks of a windmill, which generates 8192su
You can fit 6*2 aka 12 large water wheels. That only gives you 6144su
Not only are sails not as bad as you mention them to be, they're actually *better* than water wheels! How silly is that :P
I don't blame people for being wrong but i think this video needs a proper follow up/correction in the comments
The reason for the steam engine lag is the mechanical arms. I would recommend the Create: Liquid fuel mod that allows you to pump lava in directly into the blaze burner.
If the stuff to feed a steam engine are laggy, then I guess just the entirety of create is laggy. Good thing I'm using AE2 for most of my stuff instead of create 😅
Also, surprisingly, on a 1700X server, Create doesn't seem to lag that much in itself. It's mostly client-side lag, but even it's not horrendous.
blocks that are part of a contraption don't have collision so you can place windmills inside of each other and have a pillar of max windmills going up to build limit with just one block between each windmill bearing
Cursed
you can also pre-nether just power them via other heated blocks like campfires or magma blocks--not as good as a blaze burner, but you can build a little stack of 4/5 minimum size steam engines and power a starter base easy
In theory, wouldn't both of those also be able to work indefinitely without any additional input as well as being early game?
6:40 technically it only takes up one two space as you can place blocks where moving contraption is -> overlapp multiple windmills this way
cant you just use a passive steam engine? so all it needs is a water input?
yeah but I don't feel like the passive engine is worth the cost and setup compared to a waterwheel setup
2:58 "This is the most efficient structure" Ahkhtually, placing the water source one block closer to the wall makes it possible to remove all supporting structures on top, since water wheels don't allow the water to flow sideways.
A nice windmill in the middle of a farm, powering all the farms, lloks just nice. But apart from that I go for water wheels in the beginning and steam in the mid to endgame.
The μs unit is a microsecond which is equal to one millionth (0.000001 or 10−6 or 1⁄1,000,000) of a second.
There are 20 ticks in Minecraft so each shouldn't exceed 0.05s
So there are 50000μs (Microseconds) in one Minecraft tick
You would need at least 500 Steam Engines to fill that time. (not considering other stuff causing lag in a minecraft world)
But even then the game will just be one tick behind the update cycle.
The server lag gets significant at 13 ticks so you can build like 3500 Steam Engines before you even notice the lag
Fun fact: you can power minimum-tier steam engines with other heat sources. Magma blocks, campfires, actual fire, and unpowered blaze burners. Yes you heard me, the blaze burners will allow a "passive" steam engine to run without consuming fuel
As long as the windmill is spinning the blocks don't take up space. So you can have them overlapping as long as you never turn them off.
When is your next playlist coming out?
I once made what i can only described as a "Whater weel engine block", i put a row of 16 whater wheels on 3 diferent floors on a rectangle block filled with water (i built it in the coast for easy water access) and all i needed was one belt to connect all 3 floors and i got 16K SU, whater wheel is the best
i8 atually used the small to large water wheel trick for my super compact iron farm only requiring 4 blocks of space for the actually farm not including poweer or the lava and water
6:45 realistically, yes.. but technically, you gotta include a water source/flow space for 1/3 of the water wheels