NMN Ban? No Problem, Low Dose Niacin (60 mg/d) Increases NAD
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- čas přidán 4. 11. 2023
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Nice! You just saved us significant sums on NR & NMN supplements.
I will try nmn tomorrow, I believe there is huge difference, test not tell the full truth, for example test not testing nad+ inside the cell or brain cells 😮
Everyone, keep in mind that if you have a defective Preiss-Handler pathway for some reason, niacin may not work -- you'll have to test to find out. In that case you'll need to try the salvage pathway and NMN/NR. Not much is known about the off target effects of niacin at these low doses, and we are fortunate Mike is going to continue his experiments in that regard.
How common is the defect?
what's the SNP or gene. How to tell if I've got it? something 23andme reports?
Another freak telling people to go have expensive needless tests instead of just taking a 500mg tablet for pennies. If it's causing a flush response it's undoubtedly working! Enough of this nonsense! The only way niacin might not work is if the dose is too low or it's timed release. Just get the normal immediate release type try 500mg tab and get ready for what will feel like an allergic reaction but is just the Niacin doing it's work. It only lasts 45 minutes. It's a miracle
Cool experiment, rather surprising.
Based on molar weight I would expect niacin to beat NMN by 1:3 (niacin is much smaller leading to more NAD per weight), not by 1:10.
One paradigm I re-think is this whole bolus idea promoted by Sinclair (in addition to the higher the better). It could be that 30-50 milligrams of niacin twice or three times a day will help nourish NAD as these enzymes are consuming it, instead of pumping NAD to skyrocket it in one dose. Like Sinclair recommends. If you have thoughts, please share.
keep up the good work. I will continue to recommend my subscribers your channel.
Thanks Rimon, that's an interesting idea, i.e. 3x/d. First, I'll need to see if low-dose NA messes with epigenetic age, and what's the effect on metabolomic markers before going higher or lower.
This will not go over well on the channels pimping out NMN (@thepulsechannel) who’s existence relies on expensive supplements and sponsorships. There is no money in niacin, therefore there are not supplement companies pimping out influencers and it goes largely ignored. Channels like this and others (physionic) that stick to literally scientific studies and facts, versus outrages antidotal claims are needed. Sadly, It’s a world filled of mixed messages and overhyped results that simply waste a LOT OF MONEY. Even if NMN works….there’s no need to spend that kind of $$…until you follow the dollar.
Exactly
Yeah, NMN is crap.. Nicotinic Acid immediate release rules. I take 2gram daily (with brown ferric ammonium citrate). Thanks to dr. Dmitry Kats (based on his research)
@@_R2H
There is new study about linked b3 with heart disease 😮
audio is much better! Thank you
6.2. In Vivo Studies
Administration of 100 mg/day niacin to two volunteers for 8 weeks protected against ex vivo lymphocyte DNA strand breaks induced by hypoxanthine/xanthine oxidase. The supplementation increased concentrations by nearly 5 times baseline levels and significantly reduced oxygen radical-induced DNA stand breaks in the lymphocytes [92].
I built a model of the NA required to reach a specified age's NAD level using your 60 and 600 mg dose results. Of course, it's limited to N of 1, but it was very interesting. Using the same type of model from an NR study, the quantity of NA (216 mg) was much less than NR (596 mg) to reach the same target age NAD level. (current age=57.6; target age=40)
How it's going?
Thx for the valuable information.
Very creative and practical experiment, U saved us lot of money ❤
And potentially health, if NMN is banned in the US
@@conqueragingordietrying1797NA is safer and much cheaper with mamy human tests, NMN just has few human studies
Thank you!!!
Thank you
Absolutely love your videos! For my money they’re the best on youtube when it comes to longevity. So you demonstrated that blood NAD levels are not lockstep with DunedinPACE. Sinclair showed increased mammalian lifespan with NMN, but I’m not sure he claimed this was correlated either causally or through a confounding variable with blood NAD levels. And I’m not sure he evaluated DunedinPACE as a correlation to longevity in his research. Have there been any studies to your knowledge that show increases in mammalian lifespan, like with NMN, through the use of nicotinic acid? My point is that you demonstrated blood levels of NAD above a certain point may be anti-correlated with aging (and longevity if DunedinPACE is a good metric). This isn’t unheard of - you wouldn’t expect the person with the highest bone density to have the highest blood calcium levels for example. In fact the opposite is true in some cases. People with high blood calcium may be rapidly losing bone density. So blood NAD may not be the way to judge the improvements in longevity demonstrated with NMN. Is there some other downstream metabolite we could measure?
This is a 😁GREAT DISCOVERY. If it holds up for the others and this is not just an anomaly the doc has done a great service 👍
I'm retesting NAD with 60mg NA on 11/27, stay tuned!
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 yes, I can't wait. Your work and videos are way cool. I'm buying you a coffee😁
Liposomes (generic term referring to manufacturing process used by dozens upon dozens of companies, but started by pharma) are changing the world.
I’m wondering if low dose B6 + low dose NA would therefore be optimal? This is very interesting and fun to see that we can get higher NaD once again! To add, I’m also wondering regarding NO production increases. I’m sure most people could use more NO due to past artery calcification/clots/etc. I’m wondering what else can increase NO besides the usually citruline + exercise + arginine.
I would like to see the test with niacinamide instead of niacin, I personally noticed I have a lot of energy with it. I take around 250 mg in the morning, if I take 500 I will never sleep again 😂. Also taking it with methyl donors like choline/Tmg
Niacinamide has been published to increase homocysteine more than NA, so I'm staying away from that, for now. I'm taking methyl donors, but it's challenge to optimize homocysteine as an example of methylation status, even with their inclusion.
Also, as a sidenote, less methyl groups are used up if you try to somewhat inhibit the methylation enzyme for niacinamide (NNMT) by green tea (EGCG) or some other plant, by a healthy amount. So, then more niacinamide continues the salvage pathway (or is sweated out) back to NAD while not using up methyl donors.
Yes, the excess (mostly) has to be methylated but try to sweat it out instead. Niacinamide comes out in sweat with no methyl groups used. More saunas and more regular sports required :)
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Can I please have the study you refer to (I can't find it) and what do you think about niacin increasing uric acid?
Why u take it with tmg ? 😮
This is gold 👌
Did any one try another expensive supplement called 5 amino 1mq😂
Hi Michael, thanks for another great video! Where do you get 60mg NA? What brand do you use?
Thanks @Richard-eg6fw. bulksupplements.com, powder. I mixed 600 mg in 500 mL water, then take a 50ml aliquot/day to get 60mg.
@@conqueragingordietrying1797cool website. Was it the flushing kind? If so what is the difference between niacin and niacinamide?
Would love you to look at relationships between glucose and nad levels…..
Once I have enough data, I can definitely do that analysis, especially because I'll look at correlations for NAD with iollo's metabolomic data.
Always informative and actionable. David can have keep patent and overpriced supplement. Thank you Mike.
Until they try to ban nicotinic acid...Or make it available only by prescription, or raise the price! Grrr to that
just buy a couple big bottles @ 60mg/day it'll last a while.@@conqueragingordietrying1797
The Diagramm looks very indifferent, what about 2x60mg or more up to 600mg? Thank you for your restles work!👍👍👍
Did Danazol lengthen telomeres?
I would not overestimate na's impact on Dunedinpace yet. It is not even certain that na did that, or some other confounding variable that you are not controlling for. I'd try to at least reproduce the result, especially for a n=1 experiment. That being said, thanks for sharing your data.
Yep, working on it, I'll try to further increase NAD with 1500 mg NMN/d, and we'll see if that messes with DunedinPACE in December.
Great, looking forward to your results!
that's great. And most likely no / minimal flushing?
Yep! Let's see how DunedinPACE looks for the 11/27 test, so I can't say it's great yet
Have you looked at correlations with diet for the collection of baseline points?
Not yet, but NAD is at most ~25uM without any supplements, so it's doubtful I can impact it much via diet.
Been taking 50mg daily NA for a year. Also subq NAD on and off
Mike -- do you know if niacin causes flow on changes in the de novo pathway? It's possible kynurenine/quinolinic acid and the other metabolites in the de novo pathway could increase if NAMN increases with niacin.
Hey James, I doubt that's true-niacin + tryptophan didn't further increase NAD, instead was lower (59 vs 67 uM).
Could be outliers. You should repeat this at least 3x and calulate mean and SD.
When considering that NAD hasn't been higher than 26 uM without supplementation, it's doubtful that these are random outliers. But, I agree, and am collecting more data for this experiment!
When you send off your next TruDiagnostic test, I hope you’ll discuss your Omic data
OmicAGE data will have to wait, I'm not convinced about how good or not that it is.
❤❤❤
Is dunedinpace of 600mg of na bad ?! 😮 or good
Should you check the tolemere length on the lower dose of niacin?
That will be for the 11/27 test, yep! Metabolomics, too, to see the net effect.
Any sense about why or how the hi dose niacin raised NAD but decreased overall aging? It seems the study perfectly illustrates the unintended downstream effects of most interventions.
The NA dose was too high-it may not be a nigh NAD problem, but a too high NA problem. I'll test that hypothesis with NMN instead, coming soon...
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 can't wait to see! Thanks!!
I use both and i can tell you …. There is definitely different between nmn and b3 👍
It may take NMN several weeks to significantly increase NAD, I think I have heard it from David Sinclair.
In my case, 1000 mg of NMN raised NAD in just 1 week.
Hi, does nicotinamide( no flush niacin) is good for improving NAD level?( I’m sorry, I couldn’t understand well cause my English is not well 🙂 )
yeah?
While it's commendable your NAD has increased in your bloodstream as a result of your experiment, the practical question is: has it translate into NAD in the muscle and organs where biomarkers can potentially improve?
I've been sending blood for metabolomic analysis on the same day as NAD testing, so we'll have more insight into tissue metabolism in future videos.
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Really looking forward to those videos!! 🍿🍿🍿
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 I recommend an autopsy as the most in-depth test you can take. Bonus: You only have to take it once!
Would this work with niacinamide?
It might, but niacinamide raises homocysteine more than NA, and my homocysteine is already higher than I prefer.
Did you take Niacin (nicotinic acid) with food or empty stomach? What time of day do you normally take?
With food, around 4PM, which is 5h before bedtime
@@conqueragingordietrying1797The niacin flush seem disappeared after meal
Can you feel any differences?
Subjective is tough to gauge, but equally positive and negative in terms of feel, for now.
How high do you want your NAD levels to be?
HIgh enough to optimize bioenergetics without messing up more biomarkers than not. I'll further investigate the optimal dose in future videos, especially in conjunction with metabolomics, epigenetics, telomere length, etc.
👏👏👏👏👏
What about high dose Hoffer’s 3g spaced daily.
This seems to cure many maladies (depression, schizophrenia…)
And how do we know that niacin at 600 resulted in your aging score? Couldn’t it be a coincidence?
Further clarification are in these videos:
czcams.com/video/1WaP1YgjIgw/video.html
czcams.com/video/NvzTCiaAYZo/video.html
is 10 days enough for an accurate measurement?
Yes, as NAD was increased as soon as 7-days after use.
I'm just curious- how do you afford to get all these blood tests?
Is niacin same as nicotinic acid ?
Nicotinic acid is one of 2 niacin isoforms, with nicotinamide being the other.
Amazing, 600mg a day flush mustve been strong
It was! Somewhat exhausting, too
Does it have to be niacin or is nicotinamide also possible?
I'm not sure, I haven't done the nicotinamide experiment...
But actually nicotinamide or niacinamide is the same thing, isn't it?
If there is a crucial difference, I haven't understood it yet
Jinfiniti link doesn't work
Apologies, that's not good, here's the updated link: www.jinfiniti.com/product/intracellular-nad-test/
I wonder if there's much individual variability in the NAD pathways.
Nicotin acid goes via the Preiss-Handler pathway, while any other forms of vitamin B3 goes via the salvage pathway. I guess that's the reason nicotin acid works so effectively for you, while NMN hardly work at all.
It would be interesting to know if anyone researched this. But I doubt they have.
The most common form of vitamin B3 in multivitamins seems to be nicotinamide, which works via the salvage pathway. So it wouldn't do much for you, I assume.
I have found nicotin acid in only one single vitamin supplement. All others were nicotinamide, while claiming to be niacin!
100 mg of nicotin acid gives me a light flush, lips and face, when not adapted to it. 500 mg makes my entire body red!
Nice to know 100 mg might be enough!
Hey, a lot of variance is tissue-specific. NMN increases NAD better in the muscles, and niacin in the spleen, gut, pancreas, etc. blood NAD levels mainly show an impact on red blood cells, really.
Try flush free Niacin (can be marked as extended or prolonged release; avoid "sustained release").
10 days is not enough !! U must test it after 1 month 👍
I disagree, I've seen NAD increases within 1 week.
@@conqueragingordietrying1797
Yes but it not full experience 😄
Nicotinamide is only one side of the nucleotide,
deoxyadenosine is the otherside and its found in cordycepin,
Which is a ribo, side...
Did you ever lower your homocystiene?
Maybe fasting?
Perhaps the reason methionine restriction helps is reducing homocystiene?
If methionine restrictions increases lifespan by way of homocystiene reduction then perhaps it's the same pathway of calorie restriction,
Lots of ifs
What's methionine restriction?
Arent you concerned with increasing the NADH/NAD+ ratio?. As far as I know the reason to use NMN or NR is increasing NAD+ more than NADH while with NA o NAM you would increase NADH more which is a sirtuin inhibitor. I imagine that a low dose NA o NAM combined with boosting NAMPT activity could be a good option but the second part doesn't seem easy to do.
NAD levels decline during aging, and mine are on the low side, so increasing it is a priority.
But, so is the NADH/NAD ratio, which is impacted by oxidative stress. I'll investigate that by looking at metabolite ratios via iollo's metabolomic kit.
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Looking forward to the results of that testing.
I have seen protocols (like Nuchido) use Alpha-lipoic acid for activating NQO1 enzyme to positively modulate NAD/NADH ratio.
@eruiluvatar236 by the way, is there a research on the NA effects in NADH/NAD ratios vs the effects of NMN and NR? Can you please name the titles of the paper or something that I could find these by! 😊
@@0626love Regarding the effects of the different precursors on the NADH/NAD+ ratios I just saw David Sinclair giving it as a reason to use NMN/NR instead of NA/NAM and it sort of makes sense looking at the pathways but I have not actually verified if there is any paper on that.
About NQO1 activation, sulforaphane seems to be a stronger activator than ALA. Though I have an almost complete loss of function in NQO1 (C609T) and sulforaphane seems to be what it takes to make it somewhat functional so I likely won't be making much NAD+ through that but maybe reducing the cancer propensity.
Oh, and there is many ways to upregulate NAMPT. My only worry would be that we only get it to certain extent with all that - but every AMPK booster (so, fasting included) also boosts NAMPT - AMPK and NAMPT are related. So, even resveratrol boosts NAMPT, and every items that boost AMPK,
but from more common plant molecules rutin is a good candidate to provide slow-release quercetin to do the job.
If taking 600 mg once a day produces that result. What could the result be if you took 100 mg 6 times a day. Ive been very curious about low dose niacin taken more frequently to avoid the flush.
Almost zero flush for me at 60 mg NA/d, big flush at 600 mg.
I would be careful there have been liver issues associated with time release versions of niacin iirc. Repeated doses could have similar problems, though I could be misrecalling
@@diamond_s When using around 500mg per day, nicotinamide (mostly seen as problematic) from amidation pathway cannot rise too high.
In addition to that, measures can be undertaken to put nicotinamide back into use right away - use phytochemicals and/or phyto-rich food that supports NAMPT enzyme (turning niacinamide into NAD+ again) and NADH back into NAD+. Mostly the same phytochemicals are implicated in all of these processes.
The flush is the good stuff. That's the sure way of knowing that it's a good quality supplement, that you need it big time and that it's working! The flush is just vasodilation and the blood risking to where it's needed to repair tissue. One week of 500mg a day lowered my high blood pressure. I'm trying to stick to a 40 day protocol to lower my cholesterol. I be been eating like a pig for years and didn't care as I don't put weight on easily but been paying for it otherwise. I just took one again and will stick to it for fourty days and go check my cholesterol again. The blood pressure effects I felt and saw immediately at my reading
That's quite a bit of saturation at the 600mg/d NA dose (NAD change from baseline per NA dose=0.07 umol/(mg/day)) compared to the 60mg dose (0.2 umol/(mg/day)), and I guess we can conclude 600mg/d NA is a very inefficient way to increase NAD for you, and seeing negative side effects at 600mg/day NA isn't that surprising.
Yep. I wonder if 60mg/d also has some side effects, especially on DunedinPACE.
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 have you considered doing another test at 30mg NA and whatever the other half of B6 in mg would be?
Who is banning NMN and why?
US & A
Also I think David sinclare is trying profit by causing demand then getting demand banned channeling all supply to his own supplements.
because David Sinclair ask for a patent for a NMN specialized molecule and then if a patent for a medicin is asked then it can't be supplement..
That's interesting
What could be the reason why 600 MG NA increases epigenetic age?
Also, NA increases NAD+ in the Brain?
I'm not sure about the reason, but my data hasn't ever been even close to as bad for DunedinPACE with 600 mg NA.
I'm not sure about the brain, but I'll send blood for metabolomic analysis (iollo's kit) with future NAD tests, so we can gain insight into what may be happening in tissues.
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 I don't really understand from you words if nicotinamide harms epigenetic aging etc, but can vitamin D supplementation be of help knowing it potentially helps with homocysteine and other heart health bad markers, like BNP, troponin etc. And maybe klotho, dna methylation age as search suggests? I take niacinamide 500 mg 5/7 for several years already and also find that regimen not worse than nmn and nr I tried. Greatly helps with energy and other smaller issues! I didn't really feel good when took pyridoxal, pyridoxine, methylfolate btw...
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 The possibility occurs to me that larger doses of Niacin could use a greater amount of methyl groups for metabolization. The following occurs to me: 1) Perhaps higher doses of Niacin (600 mg) require double or triple doses of TMG (1200 - 1800 mg) to increase NAD levels and at the same time reduce epigenetic age? 2) Would it be possible to further increase NAD+ levels and to reduce epigenetic age at the same time by using low doses of Niacin and low doses of Niacinamide (100 mg)?
It would be interesting if you could test that hypothesis.
@@nailb0y yeah, would like to know a strategy for that too) I took MSM and it seems to make me lose fat, but I'm lean and it's not good to me, back sides of hands begin to look too bad. Also there's some info on niacin helping lipoatrophy, and natriuretic peptides influencing lipolysis.
Wut is DunedinPACE ?😮😮
It measures the peigenetic pace of aging
@@conqueragingordietrying1797
Thanks 🫡
@@conqueragingordietrying1797
Its good to be low right ? 😀
@@conqueragingordietrying1797
Low is good ?
It deleted my comment 🥴
It deleted my comment 🥴
Hmm, strange, I don't delete comments
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 yes i know its CZcams 🥲
Nice discussions going on under this video!
Still, for engaging even more public on the channel, I'm afraid you need to do penis-related videos, similar to Bryan 😂😂. You could do clickbaits with the title only though 😂
Ha, Bryan might have some penis issues that require rejuvenation, but I'm all good there, lol
Guess now I can justify my 3 redbull per day habit.
RedBull has niacinamide, not nicotinic acid, but both should increase NAD
Ha, that could be someone's video title, "RedBull increases NAD" (or does it?)