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Marshall Valvestate 8100 Blind Shootout - Pedal, Plugin, or Solid State Amp?
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2023
- Today in Plague Scythe Studios, the Marshall 8100 is pit against friend and foe alike to prove its hybrid preamp might! Does it have an equal, or is the Valvestate recipe too unique to match?
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Listen to Siderum: siderum.bandcamp.com/releases
Marshall is crazy for not making a reissue of the 8100. If they've already reissued the same old damn amps over/over again, why not an amp that's actually in demand? Love my 8100 I got for $250 with the lead 4x12 set about 4 months ago, if you look hard enough you can find a deal but it took me years to find one in good condition. Keep up the 8100 videos 🤘💀🤘
Unfortunately, it seems that Marshall is teetering on that “lifestyle” brand concept that Gibson has fooled with for years. There is no way that they AREN’T aware of the cult following this amp has garnered. I think it boils down to Marshall feeling they won’t make enough money off of it. That’s a bullshit excuse and even they know it. Hell, they still manufacture that damn MG series, so they aren’t fooling anyone. I’d throw money at my screen in an instant if they gave word they were reissuing these.
you can now get this amp in a pedal
@@theguitaristGabriel If you’re referring to the Martyr, it doesn’t even compare. I bought one and it’s ok for what it is I suppose, but it can’t come anywhere close to holding a candle to the 8100.
@@DC33879 yeah i have the 8040 and 8080 (needs fixing) combos and they are blazing fun to play, just horrible direct out signals and hard to mic for some reason., i never tried the pedal but its suposed yo have the tube as well
@@DC33879 what you think of the 8040?
Great to see you back after the difficulties you've been through. Stay focused and keep pushing.
Amazing how I liked amp 1 and 5 the most with the overall edge going to the 8100. Martyr did an amazing job replicating the sound into a smaller footprint.
No, it didn’t…
You're so good at replicating Death/Chucks tone, it's so good!
Excellent in depth analysis video as always! We use a VS100 in our rehearsals and it sounds killer. Keep up the great work
Thank you for making this video! I have owned a vs100 head since June of 2018 and absolutely love the valvestate sound. I've seen all these different emulations and pedals, and even the 8200, floating around with a curiosity of how they stack up.
I could say that with my experience with my Valvestate, I could imediately tell that 2/3/5 were the best sounding options in the blind test as well as the most valvestate-like. They all were pretty tight and had a good amount of saturation without being overly harsh, the things that I like about my vs100. That tight low end response is a dead giveaway when it comes to picking out the 8100 but the RG got surprisingly close.
It's interesting as I have talked to one of my friends who also owns a vs100 about how they sound kind of like Pantera album tone in a box. I was even listening to Cowboys and Vulgar Display today and really noticing how the tones sound a lot like my vs100 with a tube screamer.
I will say that it was sad not to see the vs100 included in this shootout as it is another option for those who want the Vavlestate sound and they generally go for half the cost of a vs8100. I got mine for like $150 at a local Guitar Center in perfect working order, an absolute steal.
I know there are one or two videos comparing the two but I hoped to see your take on that as I know you put a lot of thought and time into making a very comprehensive and accurate test for gear in your videos.
Also, as a bonus, I will share some info I have on another amp that actually kind of does the valvestate sound in an all tube package, and that is the JCM 2000/DSL amps. I own a JCM 2000/DSL 50 and it features this "mid shift" functionality that actually adds that Valvestate mid scoop and gets pretty damn close to my vs100. I even did a test where I ran the vs100 fx send into the return of the JCM 2000 and it was damn near identical to the "mid shift" on the JCM, at least in the room. The power amps might be a bit different and the JCM has a "deep" switch for more resonance but the preamp sounds are surprisingly similar. I might do a test of my own at some point to show what I'm talking about.
Still, I really love you took the time to do this video and saved me the money of looking into the 8200, the Martyr (which I definitely will avoid), and the Audiority plugin which I won't waste money on either. I feel like my vs100 already does a better job of sounding like an 8100 than any of those three I mentioned.
Great video and I hope to see more deep dives into the valvestate tone!
As a side note, I bought my vs100 with no idea what the amp was or the history behind the valvestate amps. I bought it purely because I really loved the sound and it was super cheap. I'm so glad I bought it back then because it really is a sick amp with a cool history.
from around 6:00+ i could definitely hear that amp3 and amp5 sound really good.
another great video man! keep it up, all your Valvestate 8100 are just 👌
DAMN, I WAS RIGHT HAHA!! i just saw later the time stamps 🤣
Regardless of how close the other options sound to the 8100, my favorite tones overall were #1, #3, #5 and #6. Really interesting video, and it's impressive how close you dialed everything! Nice job!
Thanks for playing "Flesh and the Power it Holds". One of my favorite Death songs.
I own 3 x 8100's and was blown away when I got 8200 about half a year ago because I expected it to sound the same but it doesn't. To be honest I was thinking if something is broken because 8100's low end is really really tight but 8200 has a very loose low end just like in this video. It's most obvious in palm mutes. It definitely needs OD pedal in front which the 8100 doesn't! Then you can get some nice Death tones out of it.
I also opened my 8200 for a sneak peek and I don't remember seeing any LEDs inside so the circuit could be way different than 8100's.
I'd like to see a video comparing the 8200 to 8100. Anyway, nice content man! You are basically the only guitar gear channel that I watch 👍🏻
Great video. Owning two of these 8100's I bought in England, I was able to pick out the 8100 and the 8200. One thing that blew me away was the Solidus plugin. It sounded pretty legit, although not exactly the same. I collect 80's and early 90's amps and the two I play the most are the 8100 and the GK 250ML. Both are insanely awesome amps. I was running the amp into a torpedo Reload box to capture the power amp "tone" stack but now I run the fx out into my axefx3 with a power amp block and then into a dynacab. It sounds amazing. Not exactly the same since I am bypassing the power amp but close enough to get the 8100 sound with a touch of original flavor in it to be different.
I had one of these with the matching cab when they first came out. I think i was 15 at the time. Anyway they cab that was paired with it was a 4x12 in a slightly smaller than the 1960. It was the first time that i was happy going straight into an amp.
OK. ALL of those substitutes are really good too. Good info. It's hard to say, which one is the best. All really good.
I don't necessarily have a good idea which amp is which here, but do have some comments on how each one sounds:
Amp 1 sounded ok but a bit bloated to me on the bassy chugs. Leads sound a little flat, but sound like Death leads up to Human. Very usable tone
Amp 2 sounded like it had slightly less gain in a good way. Chugs are a lot tighter sounding. The leads are also high and clear, much more forward sounding than the others. I think this with more gain or boost may be my favorite tone.
Amp 3 sounds very similar but less high end than amp 2. I would say very usable
Amp 4 sounds weak and all over the place. I wouldn't use it.
Amp 5 a bit fizzier, but similar to amp 3. Probably a plugin.
Amp 6 is extremely fizzy. I find it unpleasant, also a bad plugin my guess.
Edit: HAHA results were very eye opening. Very impressive stuff from audiority. I like their stuff.
I got it! Lol I picked out the 8100 on the second riff. The Martyr and the RG fooled me a couple of times as to which one was the Martyr. Had no idea what the others were but I got the tone of that amp. They all came close at times but none sounded exactly the same.
I owned 2 100w Katanas for several years and I'd recognize one from a mile away. I did learn with them but grew to loathe them. 😊
Now I'm on the hunt for an 8100 (or possibly an 8080). There are a couple VS100s available close by and I am sorely tempted but I think there's enough difference to wait. Although it could be as you said, that the example you have is just special or exceptional but, these aren't the only demos I've watched and there is a difference. However, one VS100 is available for a very good price and I may go for it.
Thanks for all your hard work, you do an outstanding job and supply a ton of valuable information. \w/
I ended up with a VS100 combo in excellent condition. Not even a scratchy pot.
But I do have a question. Is it wrong to like it more than my DSL?
Great shootout! I've got a couple Marshall valvestates that are keepers
I dug all of them 😂. Your playing is great btw😊
I loved this one, been looking for Vs sounds for so long, I hoped you'd put in the NAM also, that's as close I could get.
Seeing your breakdown of the valvestate and the tones it produces got me way more interested in it than I would of otherwise. Here's to hoping you get a VS100 as well and run the gargoyle preamp through all these power sections to compare them against a tube powered amp.
EDIT: I missed most of the shootout lmao, it's what I get for listening through phone speakers at work. The only one I was able to pick correctly was the gargoyle with the guv'nor, even calling it before you revealed the contestants.
I have that audiority plugin, it's great, they really did a nice job on it
8100 is unbeatable! I couldn't find one, they are kinda hard to get here. But I got a 8080 (that should have the same preamp circuit as 8100) and I love it! Have you tried the 8080?
(and I guessed the #5 as the real thing and loved it the most of all)
BTW, I love your videos and always looking for more (especially with Valvestate included)! And I was waiting for this kind of comparison. I wanted to find out a real comparison of 8100 vs 8080 (just for being curious), but couldn't find one.
Greetings from Slovakia!
As an owner of an 8100, I definitely agree it is it’s own things and that it’s super hard to replicate the sound
Interesting comparison, also with regards to the differences you found out between 8100&8200. However, since I owned both circuits, I'm a bit confused why your unit would have that much less Gain/saturation than the 8100. What's true however is that the 8200 (and also 8280, for that matter) has a slightly more "round" sound in general and you can't dial in that typical 8100 Death Metal fizz as easily. I like to compare it to the difference between a Mini Rectifier and a Triple Rec, the sound gets more dry, bolder and more bass-heavy as you up the wattage, which can give you the perception of less gain. Obviously though, using the 8200 with a mono cabinet doesn't actually give you more watts. For anyone who's not interested in those stereo shenanigans and the chorus (that seems to be broken in those 8200 units quite as often as the pots), get a 8100 or even a 8040 that you can get in working condition for
I'd love to see you play around with an Orange Crush 120. Great solid state tones to be had.
Is it just me or do you find the 8200 Bi-Chorus to have a bit more sag in it than the 8100? I swear I could feel a difference when comparing both. Also, please do a video on the 8200 like you did for the 8100. These amps need to be reissued!
On another note….Thank you for continuing to create the amazing content you do for us. It’s informative, well thought out and I can tell a great deal of effort goes into it. I hope that brighter days have blessed you and continue to do so. Stay strong, Ryan!
Thanks for the kind words, and you can expect to see the 8200 again! I find it difficult to describe precisely what I hear and feel when playing that amp, but your description isn't far off. It doesn't "sag" in the Class AB tube amp sense, but it does have a "lazy" transient response compared to the immediate bight of the 8100. Between that and the rounded off frequency response in the distortion stages, it is a "slow" feeling gain structure that is more reminiscent of a three gain stage tube amp with the MV ran high. Very strange to me that these two amps sound so different.
Interesting results, I thought 1 3 and 5 sounded reasonably similar enough, and 4 was my least favourite. I've been mainly using plugins lately but would like to get a decent and affordable high gain marshall type head for analog playing. The 8100 is really difficult to find over here though, so I'd be interested to see how the VS and AVT heads compare to it.
Marshall REALLY needs to reissue or make a modern reinterpretation of it though, like the Orange Super Crush.
the pedals that I have that could get closer to the valvestate is Zoom MS with preamp ExtremeDS and Metalzone, the extremeDS is really close to the Death sound and on MT-2 I try to figure out the mids on its parametric, turn the treble on zero and dosis little by little until the hiss sound just right
I really appreciate this shootout, I was thinking about the master effects pedal but this video clearly showed me I'm gonna have to pony up for the real deal 8100 and hope I get a good one without issues. Also just curious have you ever checked out the AVT series Valvestates? I've heard a few good demos but not sure how close they sound tho the 8100
i have two of these heads since decades and i just love them but they are very unreliable caused by cheap components and of course their age. so have you ever tried the master effects martyr pedal? it is a valvestate 8100 preamp in pedal form for 200 bucks! cheers 🎸🎸
To me 2,5 and 6 sounded the best
I actually was blown away how great 2 sounded for Flesh and the Power it holds during the blind test
I heard that Chuck had used Randall’s before but not sure which ones
Love the inclusion of early Gojira deepcuts
Great video! Shocking how different the 8100 and 8200 sounded.
Stupid question, did you try a simple and cheap Marshall Jackhammer in front of a clean amp to come close to the sound? Is has the contour control
Awesome 😎
I think the Guv’nor was the first pedal I owned as a kid but had no idea what I was doing with it & gave it away with an amp I sold.
Do you have a schematic for the 8200? I cant find one online. I have the 8240 schematic which does look very similar to the 8100/8080 schematic however its missing the local feedback around the tube stage which you showed in the video. However the 8280 schematic is quite significantly different than the 8100/8200, different clipping arrangement and the single tube gain stage is set up differently with a large bypass cap. Maybe the 8200 is more similar to the 8280 if it sounds so different. Then again the 8200 is not mentioned on the schematics for those other amps so who knows, may be different again!
Kind of odd that there are multiple different preamp variations throughout the valvestate line. I kinda want to get one of the stereo chorus models to compare to my 8080 head conversion now.
I wonder how the 8100 and the ModeFour compare 🤔. Everybody seems to hate the MF350 and I can kinda see why but I got mine to sound really good on amp 1 but amp 2 is still a little too flubby without any help from pedals/eq's.
Can you get modern metal tones out of any 8100 type amps? I imagine it would sound nutty with the snarl.
It does some crazy 7 and 8 string tones when boosted by a Grind or Tubescreamer type pedal. Swapping the cabinet from the typical Marshall T75-like configurations to something with V30s or Eminances also adds a uniquely contemporary twist to a classic sounding distortion character. It sounds nuts through a Fryette Fat Bottom P50E impulse response.
Got my 8100 in a cash converters for $275AUD which is roughly $150 US
Quite surprised. Though 1 was an amp. 6 definitely sounded like a pedal. Seemed to lack a lot of tonal body
I was really surprised by this but I picked out the 8200 as the worst sounding right off the bat. IT sounded boxy. I really thought they would sound the same. I wonder if it's two of the same power amp that are in the 8100, surely they cut some corners.
Imagine how much better the Mode Four would've been received if they just stuck the 8100 preamp in there
Have you played the mg100hdfx head? I heard it sounds like the 8100 if you add a boost
i like 3 5 6......3 by quite a bit...then 6 then 5
i wanna know what #3 is so bad
20:49 Anyone know what the bass and volume are set to here for the 8100? Eyesight's not so good nowadays.
Somewhere between 1 and 2 (on a clock)
I believe there are marshal 8100 nam captures which can be used for free. Might be worthwhile to test that aswell.
Do you know where I can find them ?
@@geoffreybrunet4300 tonehunt
I have an 8100 profile and it's pretty good.
I had that Marshall 8100 head, ended up selling it in less than a year. The second generation (AVT 50 and AVT 150) were way better. I think it's because they got rid of that contour control on the second versions, plus they housed them into standard rectangle boxes with the controls on the bottom instead of the top like a combo. Ever try a mode 4 head? It was another hybrid, but it had 2 preamp tubes instead of 1 like the Valvestate did. Plus I believe they were 350 watts!
i was buying not a lot of time ago the 8200. glad to have not buyed. it sounds very boxy next to the 8100. believe me or not i can almost replicate the sound with an old peavey express teal stripe with a celestion g12t-75 in it, which has an active tone stack.
Gojira "Deliverance"
I'll have to see once i'm finished watching, but to my ears i think #6 is the Audiority plugin. It has issues handling low frequencies (arguably unusable below C standard) in my experience and i can hear it flubbing out in a way the 8100 doesn't.
To my ears, 3 and 5 are my tied favorite and 4 is my least favorite. 4 sounds like there's no contour knob or facsimile thereof judging by how low-mid heavy and dull it is.
...
Well fuck me running, all of that was wrong. Haha. Glad to hear my ears liked the real deal, but it's a shame the 8200 sounds so blegh compared to the 8100. Kinda makes me curious how later Valvestate-adjacent Marshalls like the MF350 and AVT150 compare, but that's a lot of money and effort to beat a dead horse. I'd also assume my prior ballaching about the Audiority plugin is why so much EQing, specifically preEQ, was needed to get it sounding close. My biggest gripe with the Audiority plugin is that if you reopen your project or copy the plugin to another track, you have to re-enable oversampling, which may be why you were hearing ailiasing in the high frequencies (I noticed the HQ button was grey'd out in your screenshots, but don't know if that was an issue during audio export)
I should've bought an 8100 years ago
06:04 early Gojira :)
I like the 8040 more
Randall win the game!
Would love to see your eq settings for the solidus as I sold all my real amps and have the solidus.
my older brother says people use tons of gain to hide poor playing-- is that true?