How I Would Fix Darkest Dungeon
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
- This is primarily to setup the Darkest Dungeon 2 wishlist video that is coming Soon™. What would you change?
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Playlist: • Let's Play Darkest Dun...
0:00 Intro
1:18 Abomination
3:26 Antiquarian
4:05 Arbalest
8:29 Bounty Hunter
10:20 Crusader
11:50 Flagellant
16:54 Grave Robber
21:45 Hellion
22:39 Highwayman
24:32 Houndmaster
26:56 Jester
29:14 Leper
30:32 Man-at-Arms
33:12 Musketeer and Occultist
35:15 Plague Doctor
36:42 Shieldbreaker
38:51 Vestal
41:42 General Game Changes
43:40 Regions
49:51 Ruins and Warrens
53:38 Weald
58:07 Cove
59:48 Vvulf & Courtyard
1:02:24 Farmstead
1:03:54 Darkest Dungeon & Outro - Hry
One change I forgot to mention is making crits not guarantee max damage on top of the bonus. That is way too powerful of an effect.
If Crits don't max damage then you have the possibility of critting for barely more than a normal hit. Crits should be Crits.
@@fuzzythoughts8020 yeah I would argue that lessening the likelihood of critting through the use of endgame items is the real way to solve that problem in DD1. Plus the weirdly high crit scaling on some skills (looking at you hwm)
Personally I would much rather see crits less often for the pc’s and simply keep them as strong as they are now.
I think a good way to fix that would be to tighten damage ranges so it's not 6-12 and it's more like 9-12
Probably the one thing I would change to Darkest Dungeon would be to allow the player to right click enemies to know how their abilities work. I don't like that I have to go to the wiki to find out how Cultist Brawler's mark synergy works.
They added that in the sequel!
Musketeer change: not a arbalest skin that takes a full class slot
Not an excuse, but you can resolve this very easily through modding. I've played with not another arbalest rework for 3 playthroughs and I think it's really interesting and balanced.
@@MrPizzapoika im well aware that such mods exist, been using darkest musketeer for a long time now.
But yes, mods fixing something isnt an excuse.
@@morinor1340 Musketeer was honestly a wasted potential
@@MrPizzapoika Not for console, whom also play this game
There's a mod for that. It's great!!
Powerful cleaves on the enemies is another reason vestal is so strong. If you nerf her to make her not so prevalant, you also have to nerf enemy cleaves so you can get more mileage out of single target healers.
45:39 You meant: You move enemies in the Weald, you get punished (Escape Cloud and Fetid Censer, I'm looking at you)
Red Hook: Oh, finally, we can start making Darkest Dungeon 2 now that we know what to change.
also, the viewer run i submitted a while ago actually does use the last four Flagellant skills exclusively, so now i feel a little better knowing that was something you wanted to see.
@@eclecticspaghetti Where did you send it to me at? I want to make sure I didn't lose track of it.
@@ShuffleFM oh sorry, i sent it through discord
@@eclecticspaghetti What's your discord name? I can't find it in my list of DMs yet
@@ShuffleFM i'll just resend it to you, i feel like that would be less hassle.
Antiquarian’s heal removing debuffs would practically triple it’s usefulness.
I really hate how we need to do careful party compositions in order to reliably hit Slot 4 at all, but every single enemy are capable of hitting Slot 4 at will (even if the enemies are more likely to hit the ones on the front). Its. Just. So. AAAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!
Especially when a random collector can pop up out of nowhere
I would rework one of Vestal's awful common or uncommon trinkets to support Bonk Vestal. I don't like how it feels like her alternate playstyle is SOOO trinket gated.
Yep, the only time i play battle vestal is with profane scroll.
Also it would be really cool to have a necromancer type character that used *your graveyard* to charge/change their skills. You'd be encouraged to let certain characters die and accumulate in the graveyard for your necromancer character. I just feel like besides a slap in the face the graveyard has no purpose... Adding a necromancer (or reanimater) would ease the pain of loss.
i think it would be interesting if suffer temporarily increased his max deathblow resist to 95% instead of the base 85%.
i always thought it was weird how flag kinda begs you to build for deathblow resist but all it takes is one cast of suffer to completely max it out without trinkets
(and he has a DB resist trinkets at very rare quality)
Honestly, is it just me or are a lot of abilities in Circus would work greatly in the base game?
Crush passing/debuffing protect.
Rejuvenating vapors actually being a solid support ability and more of a sustain type heal rather than burst heal.
Absolution having 2 uses per battle but actually healing a good chunk of HP and stress so it's not neccesary to spam it which prevents the tempo lost.
Beast bile applying an unique Riposte that blights.
Musketeer and Arbalest being different and having better heals/damage/utility.
Battle heal healing both crusador and his target and curing debuffs.
So many abilities that are meh in the base game become really interesting in Circus and if they were transfered to the base game it would be really interesting I think.
By the way, great video I honestly agree with a lot of stuff you said or pretty much everything. The only thing I would change, would make one of Occultist trinkets add like 1-4+ HP healed on his heal, so you don't get those classic 0 heals in case you want to rely on him for heals (Ironically, he does have something like that in Circus too).
To be fair, the abilities are balanced around PvP and might be a bit too strong in base game, don't forget these abilities are balanced around a single battle and against characters and so that the fight doesn't go on forever but also help to prevent you getting totally stomped, some abilities are buffed to deal stress, which does not apply in the normal game so abilities that do not deal stress but are buffed in other ways become better. Flashpowder for example is much better since it stresses. And rejuvenating vapours is way too strong, reclaim on its own is super strong and that bleeds flag, having a free restoration on everyone is crazy broken. Nobody would die at all, they would just keep getting healed off death's door, normally this is fine, since other players have the smarts to focus one hero in this scenario, or they can just keep stressing them until they die of heart attack, But this wont happen in regular play. Also arbalist and musketeer are barely different, just different heals and trinkets isn't it?
@@isaacsimpson8098 nonetheless, circus does have some cool ideas
This video reminds me of the time Red Hook contacted FilthyRobot and asked him for his opinion on what could be changed/improved, and he sent them a massive list explaining everything he thought could be balanced better.
Which then reminds me that Filthy doesn't play Darkest Dungeon anymore, which makes me sad.......
I'm honestly glad I found you, you fill the hole left by Filthy.
That's high praise, I like filthy too
What if lunge did both less damage (extra 25% sounds alright), but had extra crit if GR is stealthed? It makes sense in a combat scenario and it would make shadow fade much better, and therefore GR becomes 200% more fun to use. Toxin trickery stealthing is a great idea too.
Totally down for bonus crit in stealth
the main thing i would change is certain quest items (and firewood) stacking, thankfully there are mods for it because it's MADDENING.
Inventory management is a nightmare, I literally cannot play without a stack mod XD (nothing too crazy tho, still balanced)
In the base game its fine imo, but id love to see longer missions with more camping that dont completely fill your inv
Illunination should Stun 100% against enemies on stealth and then remove the token, that would be good use
It would be funny if she steal the stealth token but thats not like She's Made to be played
53:30 Uh, no. Big change to make, sir. Wilbur’s incessant squealing should *not do damage*. I have never been more insulted in my life than when Red Hook told me my Bounty hunter died because a little pig man squealed at him when the whole damn team was stunned.
Sounds fair considering they took damage away from bellow :
Thats gonna be great, I love this type of discussion/critique-content, especially when the video is long and the CZcamsr *really* understands the game
Ye, like from just his words and some game terms you can clearly see that he knows what he's talking about (like the concept of tempo and the like)
Definetly makes it super fun and entertaining to watch
I think if we were to change madman, its stress debuff should last 2 battles, which would be a nice compromise between "until camp" and "one battle". Having it last 4 battles (the same duration as camping buffs) would also be kind of thematic
On a core design level, I would like to disincentivize the recovery phase. Stunning 1 or 2 weaker frontline units over and over for several turns at the end of each combat in order to heal and stress heal is not very engaging.
I would make the appearance of the fanatic not completely random - just give him a warning indicator on the map like the Thing from the stars has. Just imagine losing 3 lvl 6 heroes just because one of them was a vampire and it triggered the fanatic to spawn. And of course my party wasn't prepared for this boss fight and died since you can't just avoid it like Shambler fight. I've grown literally hating the fanatic since it's a really hard boss fight you can't expect since he can sometimes just not spawn many times in a row when you're playing with a comp that consists of vampires only. And sometimes he just spawns several times in a row because of one vampire so it's absolute bs.
The fanatic spawn IS indicated by the loading screen and ONLY appears when you have 2 or more party members with the curse. He is 100% optional as you can just avoid him by leaving the mission if you see his loading screen.
@@0rcd0c Yes can avoid the mission only after already choosing it and preparing for it which is extremely annoying. Thing from the stars shows its presence right on the map so you can know in advance which region is dangerous.
@@kaschey6145 The correct fix would be then: don't be annoyed to abandon a mission or don't bring 2 or more cursed people into a mission.
@@0rcd0c Wow, what a great piece of advice. "Just don't get annoyed by a shitty random mechanic, bro. Not like you don't have a choice because the curse is super intrusive and at one point almost all heroes are infected".
Passive aggression aside, it's not really important now. I've enjoyed the game enough and don't feel like playing the single player mode anymore.
@@kaschey6145 If your whole roster is infected and you are forced to encounter the fanatic then you've done some mistakes in previous weeks. One thing to do is not to open the crimson court until week 30 or later. Have a team ready to one shot run whatever boss is currently on the crimson court when you need a roster cleanse. If you're forced to encounter the fanatic, build a team around him and go to a region less dangerous for that comp. It's not a "random mechanic" when your own choices have led to that situation.
it would be cool if divine comfort healed everyone but the vestal so you had an actual reason to not just spam the move but use it in combination with divine grace and the player would have to make a critical choice between healing the team or to prevent the vestal from death checks
well to be fair to the madman, why wouldn't speaking have a high accuracy?
I'd be fine with this idea if bellow and yawp had 120 base accuracy.
my opinion about DD is that this game is risky as fck when the only way you'll get better with this game is thru having more experience. but because of how risky this game is, experimenting on different builds and mixes can be extremely dangerous when it's not working as you would. therefor i hope this game had a feature to playtest a run so that you can try and train yourself to get used and discover everything this game could offer.
We already have that it's radiant and darkest mode. There's no risk when you literally can't lose the game no matter how many wipes happen
learning & getting better through losing is like half of this game though
still, a cool lore-friendly addition could be a "Training Ground" building in the hamlet that you can use to instantly enter a fight with some dummies. Tbh would have been better than the circus "dlc", that whole thing is just very very questionable imo, never touched it or thought of touching it, multiplayer simply doesn't fit in a game like this...
Grievances:
- First and foremost: game too long. I was a coward and a noob but it took me a straight year to finish a campaign, and it wasn't even my first year of playing the game. Obviously, I could go faster, but even if I powergamed knowing all that I know now, it would still take me a minimum of 4 months to 100% a non-stygian campaign.
- Quirks: Some quirks are legitimately broken, (luminous, precise striker, steady), some quirks are atrocious, (fragile, weak grip on life), and some virtually don't impact the game at all (dipsomania, bad gambler, lurker). Any good darkest dungeon player is eventually going to get into the mind-numbing grind for good quirks. This makes you very rng-dependent on a long-term basis. This is unsatisfying and means you can waste hours of your life trying to play optimally by getting your natural swing precise striker deadly slugger leper. I dislike this quirk meta and also dislike that it turns characters into spreadsheets. The system should be redone in 2 ways: no more quirk grinding, (quirks are permanent or rooted) and no more black and white good/bad quirks. Quirks should come with benefits and disadvantages at once, like rabies.
- Shieldbreaker: Shieldbreaker should absolutely not have her snake encounters. I hate this. It gives main character syndrome to ONE character in the game while the rest are reduced by proxy. Why does she get this? Because she has a dark backstory? THIS IS DARKEST DUNGEON.
Dreams:
- Better characterisation. I would like to see a shadow-of-mordor style differentiation of characters with strengths and weaknesses, WITHOUT THESE STRENGTHS DEFINING THE META.
- Character relationships. I want teams that have run with each other several times before to gain synergistic benefits.
- This would make characters feel more unique and more human, so I can cry even more when Reynauld dies.
- More free actions: in an effort to speed up combat, I would like to see more double-actions akin to the Abomination's free transformation. These would obviously have to be single-use abilities. Toxin trickery comes to mind.
Character relationships were confirmed for DD2 via prerelease image. Wish granted
Shieldbreaker can have her special treatment, it's a cool way of obtaining her trinkets and backstory, and it adds difficulty the first few times you use her.
@@croma2068 actually i agree and disagree with both you and the op in a way^^
i agree that its a bit annoying that she gets special treatment - but i also like that personal story stuff happens to obtain special rewards
hence i wouldnt say that they should remove that - give more characters stuff like that... it doesnt all have to be camp encounters... it could be special enemies showing up when you have the character...it could be secret rooms that only show up for specific people and that contain info on how to proceed as well as some character loot
there are plenty of things that could be done (some modders already are playing with this, like marvin seo with the falconer)
Damn, I guess I was rushed the game pretty quick, took me about 3 weeks to finish the game
If the game is too long or too grindy, you're not playing it the right way (the bloodmoon).
characters changes - 40 mins
general changes - 3 mins...yeh
31:30 actually "Command" can be a mark skill usable on enemy and marking him and buffing the rest of the team
All I need is the Buff Antiquarian mod
It doesn't actually buff her it just makes her a jojo character
@@Intestine_Ballin-ism Isn't thta practically a buff though?
@@Intestine_Ballin-ism thats all I need
I don't know if I'd be able to handle having party corpses after someone suffers a deathblow. Especially if they used the Butcher's Circus corpses.
Seeing the Houndmaster's dog standing over its master's body T.T
watching this video makes me think if I could create a mod to implement most of these changes, maybe sometime. Very interesting video btw
There are way too many disease enemies in this game.
I find that the problem is not that there's too many enemies that cause disease, but instead how there are too many diseases that have severe negatives that can completely cripple certain heroes at the beginning of a mission.
I think the problem is randomly getting a disease at the end of a mission lmao if there wasnt enough diseases already
@@djstonedage5538 yes! Disease should only come from enemies and curios, and just get neg quirks at the end
@@djstonedage5538 I agree with that. I'll have like, two of my heroes contract diseases in a dungeon, and then at the end, my other two heroes just get a disease right there, or in rare cases, the heroes that got diseased in that dungeon get *another* one. It happens all the time.
My biggest complaint is about the final Darkest Dungeon area, and how the game does a poor job of letting you prepare for the 4 Darkest Dungeon runs. The game does a great job of making hero losses very painful and rewarding preparation. When you encounter bosses for the first time, you can generally beat it with most party compositions. By the time you're fighting Champion level bosses, you need to have a very specific party composition to deal with the boss. This is fair because it's your third time fighting the boss. That's not the case with the Darkest Dungeon fights.
How is anyone suppose to know you need Talismans for the 2nd run and only the second run? The game does not provide this information at all. How is anyone suppose to know you don't need to bring shovels when you've been bringing them for 95% of the game?
I prefer not to look at online guides and experience the game blind, but I felt I had to look up the Darkest Dungeons because the setback of losing Champion level heroes is too high. Losing heroes because of a lack of information and not due to my own execution error is just not fun.
The game actually does provide the info. If you're venturing without talismans, a popup message will ask are you sure, and inform you that talismans are crucial for survival in this mission. This popup doesn't appear in the latest dungeons.
Would be nice to have some lower-level challenges in the Darkest Dungeon to kind of get you a feel for it.
i would make it so a 16 pound piece of fucking scrap metal shit cant dodge my fucking attacks
I'd change non-euclidean hilt to have higher blight %. It only has a 60% chance to blight a skeleton for 4 points. The blight is so unimpactful. It's like the most expensive trinket in COM so balance it for endgame, not mid game. Also, trap disarm in stygian/blood moon is stupid imo. Even the disarmers like HWM or BH have 95% to disarm and I've failed too many 95% disarms
Bro i don’t get how we can’t attack the back enemies but the enemies can attack ours.
It’s dumb, unfair, frustrating and it throws all the potential strategy out of the window.
I think they chose the name Triage because you heal THREE companions
I like the Farmstead in general and all its content, but it has two of the game's worst bosses: Sleeper and Thing.
To be fair the sleeper was designed to be a run killer boss. It was supposed to be like the boss at the end of the dungeon in terms of, well we could keep going but that thing really fucked us up we might not make it for much longer. However the idea that they would put such a boss into an ENDLESS mode is questionable. The thing however is just bullshit.
This is very fancy and complicated, but I'd like it if Flagellant's set bonus was something like "upon hitting death's door buff self: -100% dmg received on death's door (1 round), cooldown: 6 rounds".
So that he can hit death's door a bit more safely
Looking back at this video now that DD2 is out, I really feel like I agree more with 45:00. Enemy cleaves are insane, while some playable character cleaves are exceptionally bad (looking at you, flashing daggers, although Grave Robber rn is just entirely an issue). To top it off, you usually have to spend 2 attacks moving an enemy backliner to the front for them to do a weaker attack *just for them instantly go back to 4*
If you get the right brush grooming your cats is a must! They'll love it too!
For Broken Key, I feel like its just too "nice" for a crystalline trinket. They're supposed to have some wicked drawbacks that are different from normal trinkets. Broken Key just feels like Padlock of Transference 2.
How about it does something completely different?
My idea is it adds blight chance to all his transform mode attacks, and also give him -stress taken if no religious members are in the party.
This gives him both a reason to actually transform (more power) and also ties into his backstory, and his depreciated mechanic of not being allowed to go in parties that have religious members.
Here's two things that I think:
There's not enough Mark in the game. I like stuff like Pistol Shot, Thrown Dagger, and Bellow benefiting from Mark, but hardly anyone can Mark. I think you could add Mark on Vestal's illumination, Man-at-Arm's Command, Anti's Flash Powder, maybe a couple of other moves in there.
I also think the Districts are pretty cleverly balanced, but I think you could change Performance Hall to Dance Hall and have Shieldbreaker and Jester in that one. I think it would be fun if that building let them both have 5 moves selectable, and maybe they could get a buff when they change position. Both Shieldbreaker and Training Ring are overstatted, I think this would balance them both more.
I love your grave robber rework idea, i think ill try to mod that in while including some of my own ideas.
57:10 Never expected to encounter this joke in Shuffle's channel. LOL!
Incredible, absolutely phenomenal
Great video Souffle
One change id like to see personally is making the mission select screen... bigger.
The background is so cramped (especially the new one), it just looks almost comically small.
Give me a bigger png that you can drag around and zoom in/out of.
Maybe make compact mode a thing for all who dont appreciate aesthetics lul
This. Making interactive maps where you can select different locations and in there select available quests. But I guess it would take time from the experienced player that only wants to rush through all of it. It might seem nice at first but it would take in necessary time at long term. Having to enter and exit differents maps could get annoying
The game's files are relatively easy to change via Notepad++. Which of the most critical changes can't just be fixed this way?
Nerfing Lunge Forward as said in the video. Let's plot this calculator in hand:
Currently: 7-14 +40% DMG Mod. This makes 9.8-19.6
Proposal: 8-16 +25% DMG Mod. This makes 10-20
It would be slightly more powerful actually, though it would just be maybe 1-2 DMG diff on normal strikes and maybe +5 or so on holy mother of god criticals.
This stuff about damage appears to change in DD2(they simply say: this skill does this damage range, here you go) but anyway: in DD damage needs to be looked at by skills, not characters, because the way the game does damage calculation.
DMG = Round( {WeaponDMG} * {DMGMod} * {OtherDMGFactor} * {CriticalMod} )
It does this for both low boundary and high boundary of the damage from weapon. Then rolls a number at random within range.
{DMGMod} is skill damage modifier. It needs to be converted to a floating point number from the % but easy: DMGMod = (100 + %DMGMod) / 100. So +40% converts to 1.4, -60% would convert to 0.4
{OtherDMGFactor} all +% damage the character is getting. Trinkets, diseases, quirks, debuffs, buffs. Sum al percentages and pull off the multiplicative factor from them like for DMGMod
{CriticalMod} the +50% bonus damage in criticals. The factor it's 1.5 and only applies on critical hits, otherwise none.
So all in all GR is just:
Pick to the Face: 5.95-11.9
Lunge Forward: 9.8-19.6
Flashing Daggers: 4.62-9.24
Throw Dagger: 6.3-12.6
Poison Dart: 2.8-5.6
This applies to any character, the devil's in the skills, not what the weapon damage says.
PS: decimals included because the game will only round as last step, all mutiplications are done in one swoop and with decimals, even the CRIT bonus is applied before rounding.
PS2: Shadow Fade does indeed double the damage, not sort of. It's just other +% DMG around misleading due to the fact the the +100% DMG is added to other buffs, trinkets, etc. So if +50% DMG from trinkets and Shadow Face that makes {OtherDMGFactor} be +150% or 2.5, while normally would be +50% or 1.5. It increases the total damage by a range of 9.8-19.6 which is the skill effective damage.
PS3: no surprise Lunge Forward is OP. It's the 4th most damaging skill in the game only surpassed by Hellion's "Bleed Out", Highwayman's "Point Blank Shot" and Leper's "Chop", except it's only downside(Forward 2 and being unable to use it again for a while) it's actually an asset: a fairly viable strategy and can easily be overcome making others with similar skills more efficient while at it.
Its really cool to look back on this years later and see what changes were actually added into the 2nd game.
I really wish the sleeper atleast did less damage at the least getting dumptrucked by twenty stress across the party is already bad plus with that 19 percent crit chance odds are your taking even more in on top of that someone's getting deaths doored and getting even more stress debuffs it just end up snowballing and if you don't get a stress relief pumpkin or campfire at the end off the boss your stuck in a situation that's almost impossible to dig you way back out off once you get back into more combat also I think there should be more means to remove disease maybe give one or two more characters a universal disease cure skill that's what killed my 300 plus kill run was after enough battles my Frontline got dump trucked when they rolled the disease that removes all your resistance to it and I just ended up on a hellish merry go round of contagion and it might just be me but I'd lower the chance to get worries from the ghoul howl I swear it feels like it's almost a garunteed chance for me if he gets to use it more than once in a fight because I got bad rolls for his stun
One thing I can think of about improving The Thing from The Stars is TO REMOVE IT FROM THE GODDAMN GAME ENTIRELY. That enemy is AWFUL design. I hate it with every fibre of my being.
I love these type of videos thanks
Core complaints:
1) Torch mechanic: there is no reason to ever go below "radiant" other than to show-of. Its such a shame because of light and sound effects/music added for different light levels... There should be reason for us to pick different light levels (extra loot is not one of them because there always is too much loot to bring home anyway). I believe light / no light should give different bonuses. E.g. high light level should prevent ambushes and increase trap detection but make it impossible for us to surprise monsters (they should see us coming from a mile away with all this light) while no light should give us high chance to surprise monsters as well as do scouting. Maybe even give speed and/or accuracy bonus in battle, because higher crit chance for the enemies is a very strong downside. In other words, with my suggestion no light/dim light will be high risk / high reward, while radiant light will be low risk approach. New players will naturally pick radiant light option while more experienced will go for a riskier (high light level should have some significant downsides too, to encourage player to try low/no light approach - e.g. Collectionier spawns only if light is above 50%)
2) Stuns are very strong. Who need heal when you have stun? Problem is not that stun parties are overpowered but that they are so much better than you naturally move toward such parties. I never noticed that Vestal heal is overpowered because I almost never used it. I used Vestal in ruins-sweeping party but there she was for the stun (also brought her for healing in some boss fights but that's it).
As for how to fix it, first, I like your idea of making move more relevant. Probably devs have not given more moves to monsters in order not to draw more animation frames.
Second, I would like to have regular enemies with 2 action bars: it would give reason to use DoTs against non-bosses and nerf stun.
Third, dodge should be a third tool to avoid enemy attacks (after stun and just killing them) however its chance value is so no-obvious that players usually don't use dodge boosting / accuracy debuffing abilities when they have other options. Some better hint is needed I guess...
Another thing is that "slow" party is at strong disadvantage: the longer fight goes on, the more chance that you will receive crit damage, the more chance that enemy reinforcements will appear and in general - having a lot of long fights is kinda boring.
3) Dungeons are too similar: to be fair they have different topology and for the most part different interactive objects, but they should be more different. For example, ruins can have keys mechanic like in mosquitoes dlc ones (1 key in small, 2 in medium, 3 in large), Weald can have "pursuer" mechanic (mini-boss that is shown on the map that follows the Party... extra bonus if pursuer "speed" depends on light level - the more light the faster it catches the party), Cove can have one-way corridors (i.e. you can't walk against the direction of current) and etc.
4) Bosses are repetitive. Because you have to fight with each of them 3 times... Wanting 16 new bosses is probably too much though...
5) There are useless abilities. You talked about it however I disagree that they should be change in "weaker effect but less random" direction. Essense of Darkest Dungeon is that there is random and bad random can hurt you and you must plan your actions with bad random in mind.
I think the 1 damage attacks are for triggering riposte.
It's nice they trigger riposte but that's only 2 characters. I think they do 1 damage just to check deathblow so even stress casters are lethal threats besides heart attacks.
The 1 damage is fine, because it does trigger riposte, on enemies like the swine drummer having a set amount of damage enables you to kill it with the riposte and avoid taking the aoe stress as a whole, the big issue is that it can also crit, it shouldn't be able to crit and deal 20 stress to every character.
excelent video buddy
29:16 The duality of man
1:01:01
Apprentice esquire would spawn only if you open the cocoons (without burning them using torch) in the first CY mission
i finished watching the video and i agree with you on most changes. the stuff that infuriates me the most is balance changes because of the dlc's that have an impact on the vanilla game (i don't like the dlc's).
i don't really care about giant because i always bring a man at arms to the weald to counter him and because i like to build (mostly) positionally flexible parties, but there is definitely a case against treebranch smackdown (especially crits) and about man at arms being absolutely mandatory to deal with some bullshit damage.
i also feel like divine comfort is as necessary as defender for the same reason so i'm not too keen on the nerf (although i totally agree with you on its opness), but maybe coupled with enemy cleaves nerf it would be fine.
skiver definitely needs a hit, he is way overstatted.
Love your content) btw the longer video the better) (while you’re comfortable with it)
Those were some very interesting and thoughtful changes! It's clear that you understand the game's strategy and mechanics at a much higher level than most players (far better than me, at least!), and I can see the reasoning behind each individual change you proposed.
That said, it struck me that the vast majority of these changes would be either buffs to player characters, nerfs to enemies, and/or increases to consistency (i.e. "nerfs to RNG"). Taken as a whole, it seems as if your proposed changes would make DD a game that felt "fairer" to the player, but also significantly easier. Aren't you concerned that those changes would take away from the spirit and mood of the game? It seems to me that, as DD is not just a strategy/RPG but a *horror* strategy/RPG, it's often *supposed* to feel unfair and unbalanced and sadistically difficult. The player is *supposed* to get screwed, carefully-laid plans are *supposed* to get messed up by random, unforeseen, uncontrollable events, and victories are *supposed* to feel like they were earned against impossible odds - in part, because we never stop tasting the occasional defeat. Even good players at the end of strong runs shouldn't feel too comfortable or safe. And while a lot of that atmosphere of horror comes from the superb artistic/graphic design, strong writing, and iconic voice acting, it also comes from the game mechanics - dreading what might pop up in the next hallway, praying that the boss doesn't use _that_ one move again, agonizing over which items to keep in a full inventory, risking a TPK by exploring _one_ more room because you need a few more portraits, or knowing that your carefully-laid plans could be thrown into chaos at any time because the game's RNG just says, "no."
Of course, not all difficulty or variance contributes to the feel of the game - for example, I think you did an excellent job highlighting the problem with the high power of enemy cleave attacks + Divine Comfort being the best heal in the game AND the only mass heal available: rather than forcing players to find creative solutions, it just encourages players to run Vestals over and over without experimenting with other healers. (Yes, of course other healers are viable - but none are as simple and easy to use as Vestal.) In general, I think the "bad" kind of unbalanced difficulty (as you alluded to in the video) is the kind that enforces a narrow playstyle, such that harder difficulty levels limit your options more than they force you to branch out and find creative & resourceful solutions to unexpected problems. For that reason, I really appreciate your attention to giving underpowered classes and moves not just more "power" in the abstract, but rather more _utility_ in order to open up new ways to play. Rebalancing the "never-use" and "must-bring" trinkets to give players more meaningful choices would also be an excellent idea, and I fully support your suggestions there.
On the other hand, I question whether making chance-based buffs & camping skills (e.g. Cry Havoc, Weapons Practice) more consistent would actually be a positive change. Isn't the inconsistency part of the suspense and fear that we're meant to feel in the dungeons? Even where the inconsistency makes the skill nearly unplayable (Cry Havoc), it might still be better for the game to make it more powerful rather than more consistent, and create more risk-reward scenarios for players to cope with. (ex: Occ's Weird Restoration is the best-designed healing ability in the game, IMO. It creates moments of delicious and terrifying tension any time a party member hits low health.)
I also think that it's totally fine for enemies to have "unbalanced" movesets. Giants would feel more fair if they couldn't scramble your whole party with 1/4 hits on a single move... but do we WANT Giants to feel fair? Do we want Swine Choppers' damage to feel balanced? Do we want Madmen to be more merciful? I'd argue that these enemies are supposed to scare us, and part of that fear comes from hoping & praying that they won't use "THAT move," but not being able to predict or stop it. I would submit that a game depicting the grim, ultimately doomed struggle against monsters, abominations, and ineffable cosmic horrors SHOULD have moments where we feel powerless to do anything but hold our breath and pray for our poor minions. And when we get lucky and the enemies use a weaker move, that just adds to the feeling that we really don't understand our foes; they don't think as we do.
Likewise, while I do ideally want to see every class be useful (and honestly I think that's mostly true already) and every ability have some conceivable value (definitely NOT true), I think it's perfectly fine for some classes to be weaker than others. A major theme of DD is coping with undesirable situations, and especially with human flaws & frailty. The game forces us to make do with party compositions that we wouldn't ordinarily choose in so many ways - from the limited roster to the randomness of the Stagecoach to level-gating expeditions to the different challenges in each dungeon to the sheer vulnerability of our people. Sure, the Vestal stands out as the game's preeminent healer, but there will be weeks when there are no Vestals in the Stagecoach and all your veteran Vestals are the wrong level or recovering at 80 stress or just dead, so you're going to have to use the Occ/Flag/Arb/Musk - and, hey, it turns out that they're pretty good healers, too, plus they all have extra damage or other utility. And I believe you when you say that the Man-at-Arms could get some base damage back without it breaking the game or anything, but the fact is he's already seeing plenty of use. I think it's appropriate for us to be thinking to ourselves, "OK, fine, I'm bringing you, Barristan... but goddam it could you hit a little harder!?" Pulling one's punches a bit is all just part of the human flaws you need to put up with in order to find fresh meat willing to risk their lives for you in these dungeons! I mean, he has that bad shoulder from the war, after all... and at least he's not stealing from you like Dismas!
Hey, thanks for the extensive comment! I'll do my best to answer your points.
You're right the game is supposed to feel unfair. It's likely because I have played so much of it that the atmosphere and such has worn off for me, so I look at it as a strategy video game only now. I feel that the average crit rate on enemies is already chaotic enough for variance, especially when coupled with speed rolls.
For consistent buffs and skills there are some I can accept as being variable like Gallow's Humor and Occultist as a class, but something like Field Dressing I can't. Arbalest is a trained medic and an army veteran, so the fact she can't properly bandage someone in a safe setting like a camp site is very odd to me. The reason I'd want something like Cry Havoc to be consistent is because it would be a nice alternative to Jester and Crusader who are great, certain stress healers.
It's okay for jerk enemies to have a jerk moveset, but I think there's too much "f*ck you player" across the entire game. The weald punishes you for using movement to disrupt the enemy which is directly against the game's design philosophy, the warrens and CC enemies don't care at all either. Cripple them doesn't need to be a cleave capable of 60+ damage on a unit that has 40+ hp with prot, dodge, and speed. Swine chopper and hook pig can do loads of damage, as much as I dislike it. As long as the game never shuts out options is what I want. For example, when enemies don't care about being moved then a lot of abilities for the player go out the window, and that sucks. It would be more interesting to give the enemies the ability to move themselves, which to RH's credit they did that for later additions.
I don't mind certain characters not being as strong at certain things, like crusader doesn't have to stress heal as hard as jester with inspiring cry, but when cry havoc is inconsistent then people aren't going to bring HM for stress healing when jester exists (usually). Otherwise I do want those things you're talking about, where people have their vestals unusable so they need to go outside their comfort zone to make teams. I don't think that can be a consistent outcome without changing some stuff.
Again thanks for the comment, thanks for watching, and thanks for being objective in the critique instead of just saying "you're dumb and this sucks" like I get from other people
it would be interesting if you could upgrade common/uncommon? trinkets by collecting more of them (10, or a thematic 6?) and then they gain a unique ability, say, slippery boots has 8 dodge and when your character moves or uses an ability to move they move again or the crit stone still has speed slow but you get a boost to crit to any enemy who went before you. some stress relief would be a godsend to slower teams.
i just liked getting excited to see an item but now it's just quick garbage that i cast aside as i keep getting more very rares and such. (maybe a quirk that boosts your character when they don't have trinkets to incentivize having an empty slot.) also, makes the nomad wagon a bit better early on.
talking about wagons, the sense of the stagecoach stops feeling like another critical choice and more of a limiting force later on. especially when you need to horde even more deeds on top of all the deeds you are collecting for the blacksmith. thank god it only takes busts to get the hero level upgrade. it kinda sucks when you want to get a different hero but are limited by the roster and the choices offered. all of which slows down the power progression of your existing team just to improve that which is offered freely.
first, quantity and roster is free, but you need to upgrade the tavern, abbey, and guild, though only demanding a specific quantity from each of your choosing. you are improving their barracks after all.
also, had the, unpopular sounding, idea that instead of throwing your heroes away, they go off and spread word of your plight, using that as the means of improving the level of recruits, with their resolve levels gained and both sets of quirks determining progress torwards the improvement. also could allow certain hero killing quirks to be added that contribute double progression, like a phobia of the sanitarium, the inability to relieve stress at the tavern or abbey as they long something else, or a resolve test could cause a person to just up and leave themselves after the dungeon as your hero begins to realize that getting vomited on by a pig abomination on a quest to kill a writhing mass of body parts is a bit overrated.
other than that, better information about stuff say like flagellant or antiquarian passives, the ability to swap items between heroes without the inventory, and hiring some dude to follow you around and carry more items in dungeons is ideas on how i would change up the game.
Very cool ideas.
Perhaps Bellow could work as a Mark skill, but make it a chance to mark. Like 50% or something akin for each row. It's not guaranteed to hit everybody, so you just go ham on the ones that do. The Scarecrow class mod has something similar, and it's not as strong as it seems, since sometimes you just get no marks at all, especially when trying to mark a boss.
I know i'm late but whatever. You mentioned in some other video that the jester having both slice off and harvest is completely wasted since they're both moves from rank 2 and 3 to rank 2 and 3 that deal bleed, and even have extremely similar icons. I also noticed jester, *the literal dancer* , doesn't have any moves that move him backwards apart from finale. That's kinda dumb imo. I believe he should remove one of the sickle skills (i'd say keep the cleave one and ditch the other) and get some form of stab that either penetrates armour, ignores stealth or inflicts single target bleed and can be used on ranks not covered by the sickle while also moving him back. Sometimes he gets shuffled around into rank 2 and i'd rather have him in rank 3 to battle ballad or inspire and i don't have finale or don't want to use it. Using the movement action instead of an attack with movement is just sad with jester, especially if it's just by one rank instead of three, so let my boy go backwards.
i cant stop thinking about the swine skiver that triple crit my back 3 for 26 on the first turn resulting in my loss of a level 5 dismas and reynauld, along with the rest of my team
This was a great video. I agree with pretty much everything except giving GR a self-heal when she’s a rogue. Tox trickery makes no sense. Maybe let it be used on others & herself like PD, but still, it doesn’t really fit GR’s kit or role as a damage-dealer.
I also agree with the comments about the Champion Warrens enemies. I play on BM & the other day I’d just done 2 of the other area champion bosses, then I went into a Warrens quest & some encounters were harder than the bosses. They give diseases that hurt your accuracy, then they stun your backline healer, &🩸everyone 😂
I’d give Vestal another bonk trinket bc profane scroll can be quite difficult to get.
I might also either lower the frequency of diseases, or make them less severe at low levels, or cheaper/ easier to heal in some way. Bc if you’re playing BM. money is tight in the beginning & I’ve had to just dismiss heroes who get diseases. Ironically diseases are less of a problem at higher levels bc u have better accuracy trinkets & more heroes with all their camp skills who can heal disease
Would love to see what Red Hook thinks of these suggestions
32:10
bring bacc the damage on bellow :>
I would personally like to see the enemies in the warrens toned down. I feel like there’s an insurmountable amount of debuffs,dmg over time, high crit stealth enemies, and stress enemies that make the region not only the hardest in the game for me, but also kinda broken. Maybe the combat there should be approached in the other way around: deal with the dmg dealers first, then try to minimize stress with camping skills or whatnot. Idk, all this is based on my experience, so people most definitely can have a different take.
Make Hunger less random, by having a meter and then giving a hunger check when it depletes.
abbomination I think that buff from trasnsformation should be permanent until is a monster!!
Shuffle: 34:35
*Everyone liked that*
Hold up I have a way to save Flag's set bonus
Increase max deathblow resist from 87 to maybe 92? Maybe even just 90, to even it out because it bothers me.
Edit: Adrenaline should increase speed to counter Breakthrough change my mind
I think just having more options as healers as every damn party consists of a Vestal... arbalist, anyiquerion, plague doctor, all suck ass as healers, even with super trinkets
Corpses suck and DoT is not good enough. Make it so there is an advantage to clearing a corpse outside just being able to reach the enemy. Reduce backline dodge the further they are up front. Otherwise I'm going to clear back to front every fight. That doesn't make the gameplay more thought provoking and diverse. Instead of facerolling past enemies from the front, I do it from back to front. It's the design equivalent to making someone peal a banana from the side they don't want to. Why bother introducing corpses to stop me clearing front to back, but not stop me from completely ignoring it by clearing from back to front? It's not harder, just more narrow in how the game plays and comps are built. Arguably, it makes the game dumber and easier by promoting one specific way to play it.
Hew on leper should be a 4 spot cleave
Old video i know, but ive been doing my first playthrough of darkest dungeon recently, and one thing that annoys me is heroes being level locked out of lower level missions. Like i get theyd be easy if i could take a full party of level 5, or 6 heroes into an apprentice dungeon, but ive been having issues with not really having enough heroes that are level 0-2 to reliably do apprentice dungeons when i want to. Idk, maybe it sounds dumb, but itd be nice if i could maybe take one higher level hero into a lower level dungeon, or something. Even if i were limited to level 3, and 4 heroes for apprentice, or something. Ive onky just bareky gotten into champion level dungeons, and because of how brutally difficult theyve been so far, sometimes i wind up not wanting to go into one because i dont have a certain team comp available due to to many people being stressed, having quiros locked in, or maybe something like there arent any trinkets in the champion dungeons i want to go for, or dont feel confident enough yet to go into a long dungeon to get an ancestral trinket yet. (Tried doing that, and lost a hellion)
I guess im just at a point where its becoming very strict in what missions i can, and cant do because of hero levels.
Breakthrough has a damage penalty because when she came out everyone was runninng 3 hellions 1 vestal and killing everything.
Alternative battle ballad: No accuracy, no speed, +6% crit, +100% stress healing on crit. The idea is like, when a hero gets a good hit, he sings about that powerful and dramatic blow, and that makes the hero feel nice, but it doesn't completely remove accuracy as a mechanic. I also hate that the character who's supposed to be the main stress healer only has one stress healing skill (who affects one person only, I get wanting to avert redundancy with cry havoc, but how do the other heroes not hear the sound?? Though I guess I shouldn't question sound physics in a game where you can dodge an howl...)
Also I don't like the speed buff because it makes it very likely that 3/4 enemies are going to get their turn in a row, which can make for very nasty 1 turn kills. Especially when that swine butcher has such a juicy and low HP target like the jester boi. At least if MAA does it, he's tanky enough to make a one turn demise less likely.
Roof spaghetti, useful for killing fish. Out of context that's a really weird sentence.
I have a husky so I understand the hair dilemma.
My kingdom for some provision presets…
I agree with almost everything.
I think cleaves are the most frustrating thing in the game. It makes me feel inclined to just use HWM for riposte on every team.
The game is very long. I don't have as much time to grind out games now that I am an adult. This isn't really a negative, but a fact of life. I can't grind out games like I used to. I would like to play all the way through, but I always quit and come back only to restart a new campaign.
my dude wrathful bandana is a focus ring with -2 accuracy and +4 dodge
The stats are good, it's just that accuracy is not an issue arb has.
@@ShuffleFM i am a bit paranoid so i bring acc trinkets on everybody anyway
Huh... In the game files, Bola has a rank 5 with 115%, but the skill uses the rank 4 effect instead.
Why doesn't bounty hunter get a stun trinket? Cause he gets a freaking 125 base stun on uppercut! Which increases as the ability levels up, I think.
On the other hand I propose Wounding helmet lose its move and stun debuff and replace those with extra ACC and crit against marked targets so that we don't bring his claw trinket around so often. As a downside it could get +20% stress gain.
Thoughts?
Uppercut and flashbang start at 100 and 110 chance to stun respectively, so uppercut is average in that regard. I would love some kind of change to wounding helmet. I'm a bit scared to give it crit/acc vs marked targets because then it would cover too much, even with a 20% stress gain. A more scary trade off may be nice, like -hp% or -scouting chance. It could certainly work with a massive stress penalty though.
@@ShuffleFM Turns out I had a mod that buffed Bounty Hunter's stun chance on that move... My bad.
Do we know when DD2 is getting released?
Soon
@@Ironsuaba still Epic exclusive?
Just the early access, full game will be on steam too
@@cynic_0546 such a terrible assault cannot be left unanswered!
This year.
Remove stress meter for dungeons. You can replace it with a stagger bar for players. *You take enough damage and your character becomes staggered (unable to make a move during the round) and vulnerable to all types of status effects* this would increase the need for antidote supplies.
Stress would come after a dungeon depending on how hard it was on the character. With enough stress the character could cause serious problems to your estate. Like causing stress to inactive characters, leaving the estate, causing damages and closings of buildings resulting in higher cost of supplies and being unable to participate in dungeons until the stress was treated.
Make the main campaign significantly shorter, then put more of an emphasis on post-game content.
I would like the game to calculate each skill effect's chance separately. As is for now, game makes one roll for chance to hit for each hit (mayyybe..? maybe this is even one roll for everything), second roll for crit, and third roll for all side effects. So for cleave attacks it's either hit every enemy or nobody considering enemies have around same dodge. For attack effects it's the same: you either apply dot+debuff or nothing, unless again the enemy have different resistances and dice threw number between them. Dunno about crits with cleave, it looks like crit dice is thrown for each individual hit.
While this makes sence in realistic way of things (impale: you threw spear really badly in literally opposite way of enemies and of course nothing is gonna be hit by that; shield slam: you get hit really strong by shield and this is going to knock you back and out, which moves and takes time to stand back (stuns)), in game it's too much "devastating effect or nothing at all". It doesn't help in rng to get the bad of you; get two-three really bad dices, and feck you. Adding more dice throws will not change overall perfomance, but it'll reduce the chance of both sides of effects (either cleave does nothing or hits everybody; either attack applies every thing it have or does only hit) unless the chance is 100% already. This makes a row of bad (and good) dices throws based around thoose mechanics much more uncommon, giving you more control.
Btw for Flag I would chance his deathblow in this way: make it default chance, but give him one guarantied survival for one dd check. Maybe per battle, maybe for one dd (so if he is healed his guarantied survival is reset). And when it procs, this is when he heals the party.
Btw[2] for move: make move resistance a way to resist move hit made on another character. Might as well make it resist shuffles. In order to balance things: reduce all base movement resists, so it matters when you increase your resistances. Same way for enemies: two checks, chance is really high, for small things it's like 90% or even 100% base unmodified check to success. But, to move smaller things around bigger things, give it more force! Can't just move leper wall by throwing a jester at him. Can't just move mega enormous ghoul by throwing a maggot at him.
> for cleave attacks it's either hit every enemy or nobody considering enemies have around same dodge
The game calculates a dodge value, and enemies that have more than it will dodge. Others will get hit.
I find it somewhat logical from the game mechanics perspective. If you're not cleaving 40dodge dude, you're not cleaving the 50dodge dude.
42:45
Would you trade deaths door for a corpse? Probably not since deaths door is better in every way than a corpse and they have the same trigger.
give the enemies death's door 😏
Now here's the real question: Why hasn't Shuffle made this list into a mod?
I'm lazy and can't do the code work lol
12:12 If I pay for a character, it deserves to be busted...
38:39 that's a joke....right? you dont see anything that needs adjustment?
Besides her damage range and speed gain not really. It's pierce that is the biggest offender.
Wait, what? A front line Antiquarian healer? The squishy Antiquarian?
Protect me can keep her pretty safe. Occultist who is also squishy excels up there, and anti has things like carpace idol which is 25% prot with no downside.
@@ShuffleFM Well, Occultist has more more health pool than Antiquarian. And I thought you said Carapace is not a good trinket since Antiquarian's defensive measure is Dodge, not Prot? I agree with Protect Me though. It can protect the Antiquarian up front. But Antiquarian is not a speedy character. So she may be dead or dying before she even get to use it. Maybe if we also use the Coin trinket too?
Anyway, that's a lot of setup just to make a pretty mediocre healing skill available.
cant kill what you cant hit, says the 120+ dodge antiquarian
I have a new appreciation for the carpace idol after running barristan's head consistently, especially in torchless where dodging is pretty hard to pull off since the enemies get much more accuracy. You also have flashpowder spam if you want to go the dodge route with her up front.
Game to hard, make me angry, why do skeletons crit but not me :(
This is why mods are such a great thing for games. A lot of the issues mentioned in this video can be solved with mods. The people who like the game as is are happy, and the people who don't can change it with mods. For example, I hate how restrictive the inventory is, so I use a mod that increases how much you can stack.
After having done modifications to my game balance (and extensive testing), I've found something I would like to see implemented into the game.
Arbalest second rank viability. She has a ton of base health, which is wasted in the fourth position as she's rarely attacked. Lets put her in second spot! (I love this play style)
In order for that to happen, she needs to be allowed usage of Bola and Supressing Fire from second rank. Also, blindfire needs to deal extra damage in a similar vein to the Highwayman's Point Blank Shot. Probably not as much, but extra damage nonetheless.
Arbalest and Man at Arms are awesome together on the frontline. They can (debuff and attack) or (mark and attack) or (knockback/stun and attack) or a combination of the three. Then you can just put whomever you like in your backline.
Strengths: Tanky frontliner that shoots randomly (could hit the backline), can debuff enemies (use her scarf), can crowd control.
Fourth spot is open, can put a second damage dealer or a second support there.
Weaknesses: Cannot use bandage (not big deal), you MUST have her scarf (its imperitive), requires move charm to knockback enemies, might also need the 'tough ring' if enemy has plenty of damage and you've put a secondary damage dealer in the backline.
Should mention that I modified her scarf to give damage regardless of position. Overall, a pretty strong choice. I like using her like this in most situations. Thoughts?
Rank 2 arb would be really fun to try
Before I start watching this, here are three grievances with Darkest Dungeon that I wish Red Hook addressed before they moved on to DD2.
The first is hunger checks. They're annoying because you have no real way to influence them. Your characters don't complain about feeling peckish, there's no meter, and no readily apparent statistic governing hunger checks besides blind luck and the 1 check per hallway rule. Hunger checks are rarely run-breaking in my experience, but their presence is inconvenient and irritating. I get that an expedition lasts a whole week, but with the way each run is presented you'd be inclined to believe that every party member has some severe tapeworm problem, and if they don't snack every 5 minutes the thing will start burrowing out of their guts like a discount Chestburster.
The second is trinkets. Many trinkets are useless outside of extremely niche builds, and only the class-specific Crimson Court trinkets offer set bonuses. That is a crying shame, especially in the wake of Color of Madness, Butcher's Circus, and the absolute explosion of mods that offer new and interesting trinket designs. More sets would give an incentive to run those niche builds.
Thirdly? Character skills. Many of them are niche, as I mentioned before, some are borderline useless, and the four skill limit and inability to change skills mid-combat or mid-camp is aggravatingly limited, doubly so wgen there's no obvious justification as to why this is not possible. Having two skiilsets to swap between in a similar vein to transformation classes like the Abomination or the stance type classes present in so many mods would have been refreshing and helped see that every tool in a class's kit would see usage. It would have also given an alternative to moving, passing a turn, or just having a character be forced to act in an ineffective manner.
Now let's see if Shuffle agrees with any of these points before I conk out for the night...
good it's not your game