Which Is FASTEST? - The best eMTB motor of 2022
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 7. 06. 2024
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Which Is FASTEST? - The best eMTB motor of 2022
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Let's Go Riders this is the START of a MASSIVE motor test I hope you like it...
Sam Great video as always. I look forward to the range test.
Good Job!!! Love your content. This new PWX3 is rocking! On a side note, your sadel look low when you are climing, probably and optic illusion with the camera but it look like you could raise it.
Great video Sam. Iâll be buying my first e mtb soon, and youâve already changed my mind about what Iâm going to buy. Great stuff.
I rode my 2021 Giant Trance-E+ for the first time a couple days ago and it was amazing, I kept it on the first and second level of assistance for the entire ride, it has so much power is unbelievable. I can't wait to ride it again.
A side note: If your riding friends don't have e-bikes they will hate you hahaha
Totally mate I was very impressed with my first few rides
I liked what you did here and you do a good job giving realistic advice without too much bias. I love my Yamaha and on my new Reign the power is noticeably consistent as the gradient increases. It really saves my legs on long technical climbs out here in Lake Tahoe.
Sweet mate thanks for the kind words
Nice test, thanks Sam!
Thanks
Thanks Sam really interestingđđ
Great test Sam
thanks Sam, great testing. I found that the EP8 needs smaller gearing and of course high cadence when on the power to stay gassing.
Totally agree mate
Sam: Thanks for another great video! Really like the back to back comparison rides as the characteristics of each motor really stand out. These are "e"-MTB's to the motor is a key part and you could clearly show the difference between the motors in the lap time up the hill. I have a Intense Tazor's with Shimano 7000 (60Nm) and EP8 (85Nm) and the EP8 does not feel like it has 30% more torque than the 7000 but both motors feel less torquey than the Brose 2.2 in my '22 Levo Expert or the Bosch CX4 in my '21 Trek Rail 7. The belt drive in the Brose is very quiet with no gear lash movement/noise. Have not ridden the new Giant motor (very limited availability) but the 1.4 sec quicker hill climb time is interesting. I wonder if the same motor in the Yamaha Moro Pro is just as powerful or perhaps Giant's software is using more of the battery/motor power and giving up a little range? Since part of your climb was at the limit of assist (25 kph) is is possible the Giant motor was going giving full power right up to 25 kph or a little beyond while others had already scaled back the assist just below 25 kph?
Thanks mate it was a lot of work but very interesting, the syncdrive is a pwx3 motor but just giants software it would be interesting to put them back to back and see how different they are! I personally think it was the full suspension that got the win but all 3 motors are fantastic
You definitely put some work in that, nice job 2 thumbs up.
Thanks Rider
Great vid mate!
Thanks mate
Sam, love the test, but you know how I feel about these "speed" tests. I'm much more interested in the next vid comparing battery efficiency. Watts/Mile or Miles/Watt. You choose. With all the ebikes me and buds have, the Bosch wins efficiency every time. I can ride the same mileage with a 500wh battery, when all my friends have to use 625wh or more. Of course gearing and overall weight do make a massive difference. Keep that in mind when you're testing. Good luck.
YesSiRr!! Well done Mate... awesome job. I really like the Giant bike so I'm glad it held up pretty good against them other ones. Thankz again for sharing.... like I said... really appreciate the effort you put in to bring us these tests. Look forward to watching the NEXT installment...Take Care and Stay Safe out there..
Thanks mate for the kinda words it really is so much work but very interesting at the same time...
Hey Sam, love your stuff and enthusiasm. Can you get a Pollini motor and test it, would really like to see how it compares power and noise wise. Also rig Schwalbe and same tyre setups on all. Plus, factor in an allowance for the weight of each, ie s works is carbon frame and wheels, right?
Good stuff.. Im loving my Rise. put a 170 shock up front and a bigger coil on back to get 163... great feel so far.
Wow beast mode
This will be my first e-bike, Iâve demonstrated a YT Decoy with the older e8000 motor which I found plenty quick enough in eco and trail. My new bike is the Rise H15, still with Shimano but EP8 this time, although with power reduced to 60nm. For me Iâm not bothered itâs not full power, itâll be way easier than leg power alone đ
Nice tests at end can you find out repair and servicing for motors ie how easy,costs and reliable big ask but Iâm sure it would be on peoples minds
Sam you have got to try EUC electric unicycle, I'm an emtb guy & mtb but EUC has blown my mind and changed my concept of adventure. Dude try it, this will blow your E mind
Hello Sam from Barcelona (Spain). I have a Megamo Crave 05 AL with the Shimano EP8, it's true this motor is not the more powerful but it's very quiet and nice natural sensation when you pedaling, it seems a bike without motor, i'm very happy with de EP8 and his range with de 630wh battery.
Great video mate, thank you. I was wondering if you could ever test commuter bikes as well, like, Canyon Precede ON CF 9 or 8, Specialized Turbo Vado 5, Trek Allant+ 9.9S, SCOTT Silence eRIDE EVO Speed Bike, etc. Also the difference between traditional gearing systems and Enviolo system, like how do they compare in real life riding. There are a lot of us that we are not able to judge and decide because we don't have access to those bikes. We would appreciate it. Thanks again
Iâll give it a try
Just been out on my giant reign e 0+ bloody awesome bike..đ€
Hello Sam, Great analogy of the E Bike motors. I like you have to lean toward the Bros. It is truly quiet and a great motor.Jg
Thanks đ John! I have the agree the brose is a beast
Giant/Yamaha is looking really good đ this year both in aesthetics and performance. Nice to see another choice in the ebike market.
Could not agree with you more the reign is a beast for the money đ° the only question mark I had was the motor not anymore
Got so lucky. With my Banana Boat Yellow Turbo Levo base alloy. That I bought, the day they put on the floor after building her. Such a steallllll.
I recall telling you that I really liked Yamaha PW-X2, looks like the Giant's version of X3 is even better. The older Yamahas faded a bit too early at higher cadences, but they have been improving at each version jump.
Yep totally Timo they have definitely improved over the last model
Hey Sam interesting test, It would be interesting to hear what gearing(chainring/rear cog/we know the wheel size) you were using.
The bikes probably have different size chainrings and the steps on shimano vs sram cassettes are different.
So at a test this short just a slight difference in gearing can have a significant impact.
I have a Reign E+1 2022 and can confirm the constant power delivery in very high cadences.
Although I hate the Auto mode...it does nothing...just stays in mode 4 all the time(flat, uphill, downhill...) I think Giant totally fucked up with this firmware...
That Trek looks really good.
Idea of a test are e-bikes, such as the Scott Patron, where you can manually lock, or partially lock, the suspensions. See how much difference it makes on speed or range.
I have Giant Fathom 2 Pro E+ with the customized Yamaha PW-X2 and 2 Cubes Reaction Hybrid Pro 625 and Stereo Race Hybrid 625 with Gen4 Bosch. The Giant feels stronger from start but the Bosch is generally the better motor for EMTB. Canât wait to test the Yamaha PW-X3
Tyre pressures, rear lockout, wheel size, gear used... A lot of variables that will influence the result big time.
And the Giant locks the suspension on climbs
Sam do you think you can do this test again with the same tyres on all the bikes?
IMHO the most important for funny ride uphill in terrain (not just flat gravel road) isn't the maximum power on turbo mode. It's the way how the system can support you in tricky situations. For example that's why riders with Bosch system use the perfect and clever eMTB power mode most of the time.
If you can compare a Rocky poweray with the dyname 4.0, it would be great!
Great vid Sam. The Yamaha / Giant motors never seem to get much recognition compared to the other 3. I've had the Haibike Allmtn7 with the Yam PWX2 for over a year now and the Torgue delivery is brilliant throughout the cadence range :-)
Thanks mate it was very interesting for me!!!
Haibike Nduro 7 is now at the top of my list for the ebike
Not comparable setups:
eMTB: price, weight, material:
Specialized S-Works Turbo Levo: $15k, 22.04kg, carbon
Mondraker Crafty Carbon XR: $13k, 23.1kg, carbon
Giant Trance X Advanced E+: $9.5k, 23.06kg, carbon
Commencal Meta Power SX: $6.7k, 24.6kg, aluminum
Find the lightest eMTB per motor brand, with best components and compare them. Best bang for buck by far would be the Meta Power SX, next one in price is almost $3k. Instead of the Meta add for example the Heckler or Bullit, then you have a fair ultra premium emtb motor comparison.
Yep I agree but I did mention that it was just interesting for me to try
I have an ep8 on a Merida e160:10k. Frustrating that itâs has less power but biggest issue is range. We did a 42km ride with 1600m climbing, two shimanos two trek rails. The treks could use tour plus on much of the ride where as I only just got back with 2 k range in eco the whole way. So itâs a double edged sword. Itâs almost like the ep8 was rushed into production. The ep feels better but frankly that pales if you are running out and being left behind. Had I been buying now with what I have learnt it would be bosch or specialised, I wouldnât even consider an ep8
The sound of motors partly comes down to the frame it's been fitted into and any casing that manufacturer puts over the motor,part of the reason some overheat..my bike has the Bosch gen4 it's never missed a beat and pulls like a tank and mine has never sounded like that one very quiet and it's done 1400 miles..I am looking at getting a fantic they use the brose motor which also has good rep...the brose motor in the test went from whinney to near silent which surprised me but then it is known for being really quiet...so for me the Bosch and the brose are the best 1 I know 1st hand experience the other has a really good reputation...fair play for doing the test at 9.30am Christ I'd be puking after the first 2...âșïžđđ..
Haha thanks mate it was a nasty morning
My bike is a 23 stance E+2 . 75.n.m. How much more noticeable is the 85 n.m. giant?
I also like to see more manufacturers using polini motors
We need to get that motor to test...
His pedaling cadence is about 115 rpm on the Giant, 105 rpm on the others. This likely means his human power is a bigger contributor to total power via the tendency for human power output to increase with cadence in that range. His cadence can be estimated by watching his right knee rise, and counting reps against duration of time; please check my numbers with a stopwatch.
Wow he is a person and is reading this comment! You need to get out and ride more mate! You try abs ride all 4 bikes twice with the same effort. It really makes me wonder why I even do this, with these types of comments
@@SamsBikes I think it's fair to say the setups on the bikes are a factor. Simkinetics comment re cadence is his observation which is fair enough not sure why you came back like that Sam? What do you mean by "Wow he is a person"? Doesn't make sense?
@Sim I think that your assumptions are not correct either. Bike geo, weight play a big role in putting the power down as well as each motorâs sweet cadence spot. The Giant has the longest stays of the group, which allows it to put the power down when climbing. I read somewhere that actually the cadence sweet spot for this motor is lower, in the 70s? In these tests, rider variability is a given (fatigue level etc.). Sam might be spinning faster since there was more traction with the Giant or he was in a higher gear. A more exact test would have to be a test with the same base geo (a bike with the ability to swap all motors in) and 30 min breaks in between each run. Or we go just base it off the bench #s. Rob emtb had a review. In his, the PWX3 came in 3rd but the Reign has shorter stays. But all 3 top motors (Bosc, Brose, Yamaha) were all within spitting distance of each other. Both reviews confirm that the EP8 was the odd motor out. Either way, @ Sam, thanks for doing this! It looked like lots of sweat and tears out there! The EP8 is one reason I didnât consider the Heckler, even the new Canyon. Itâs a weaker motor, with albeit questionable battery cell quality (based on rider feedback). Iâm guessing thatâs why Canyon put in a 900 whr battery to offset any range doubts (they must be locked in EP8 for quite a while).
Sam, Iâm going to throw this out: Which motor is the most âbattery efficientâ? Itâs pretty well reported that the EP8 is not the most torquey motor, but that doesnât mean much in the real world IF it produces enough quality torque (power). As an example, on the LevoSL, I rarely run it in high range, and usually just in ECO. I get great battery life, at least 6 hrs on gnarly trails. Now, Iâm considering the Yeti 160E mainly because I really like Yetiâs in general. If they made a 160E SL, thats the bike I would buy. I donât want the extra weight or power.
So, going back to the EP8, is there a way you could calculate motor efficiency? How well (evenly) the torque is applied is probably more important to me than ultimate power, since I would not be racing an EMTB.
Let me know your thoughts and insights.
I luv my SC BULLIT with Shimano EP8 but it doesn't feel as good as Spesh Brose motors fo sure, and I got a Yeti 160e on order because I luv the sixfinity suspension and I know it will be a great fit for my riding. No way I cud get a 35 nm of torque motor, its all Full Powered, and I use up all my 630 watt hour battery and I'm pretty much completely drained for the day.
u sound tired even before starting on the Commencal eP8, its on 27.5 plus aluminum frame, cud of started on the eP8 pedal assist motor first or second in my opinion but overall interesting video lol Full Powered eMTBs for me
I still have the e8000 and compared to riding the ep8 I feel it seems to have similar power even though rated at only 70nm. Power delivery is more progressive on the ep8 which may be why it seems to lessen the feel. Still underpowered compared to the others. Mine is in the YT and bike handles fantastic. Full fox factory. I do notice the lacking power compared to friends better powered bikes.
I wonder which motors are easiest to service? An ebike motor repair mechanic told me that some motors are simply a nightmare/impossible to service due to its design/software while others are more repair-friendly. I wonder if companies will make it easier for 3rd party repair shops to fix motors. One day, I'll get an e-bike lol :)
I wouldn't take much from this test for so many reasons. A more technical climb what would be interesting but with different bikes using different motors it will also be hard to gauge. We know the Shimano is the least powerful because everyone reports this. As for the other motors I would like to know reliability and range as these are motivating factors. The Bosch has the best reputation out there and the new Yamaha motor is a great new player but tied to Giant like the Brose is to Specialized.
Good testing; but, I am still hung up on my Levo SL with no where near the power of the tested bikes.
Haibike/Spitszi Ng m1???
Interesting comparison. I would be interested to see how these motors compare during a more technical hill climb scenario. Something approaching the level of an EWSE power stage. I think the winner may be different. Another interesting piece of info could be the speed that these motors actually stop providing assistance. My Bosch bike stops at 25kph whilst my Giant with PWX3 cuts assist at 22 and is hard to pedal through. Another thing I noticed Bosch vs Yamaha is that during a gear change scenario where you need to slightly back off or where you are increasing speed during climbing and change to a harder gear, the Yamaha drops the assistance noticeably and requires a bit more rider effort to get the cadence back up. Bosch manages to keep it much smoother and makes it a faster more satisfying motor in that scenario.
I think you should check your Giant, I can hear the motor on my Reign up until 26.5/27 km/h. From what I've read your bike might be in the DEMO/Show mode, which limits the speed for assist a bit lower. There are 2 ways to turn it on/off depending on the year of the bike, something related to pressing the light button 5 times. If you still have the bike and it behaves the same reply here and I'll look up the page in the instructions about how to turn it off.
Well Sam you already know what i'm going to say ,,,,,,,, SACHS!
i have a bosch and a Sachs and i have tested both on the same hill near my house and the results weren't even close . the sachs destroyed the bosch .
Wish I could see this with the 20mph/32kph limiter we have in USA.
Sam, any opinions on the EP8 high spindle failure rate with E13 cranks. I've even heard of XT cranks coming off and breaking the EP8 spindle.
Not very confidence inspiring
Please test the Polini
Iâm trying
Tbh having a "faster" motor one of the least important things on an emtb. Ride quality beats everything.
The Giant is a trail bike itâs going to be faster?
Nice test, thank you for the work :) Just add some engines for ultimate comparison: normal Yamaha (PW-X3), Dyname 4.0 and maybe Flyon (but not sure - m8 its discontiuted). Also looking foward the range test. Have a nice weekend!!!
Definitely I would love to try them all but itâs so hard to get my hands on them all!
Everywhere I look the EP8 gets its ass kicked. :( good job I think my next bike is going to be a light weight lower assist model. I hardly ever use more than eco.
Love Yamaha Quality
I wonder if the Giant isnât limited at 32km⊠that would mean a lot
Gotta use that Schwalbe sponsor for control tires. Too much variables here.
Actually I wasnât allowed to change the tires on the two test bikes
I have a 2022 Giant Reign E+, my wife has a 2021 Merida E160 (EP8). 2 very similar mullet bikes running the same tyres but hers are Maxx Grip, mine are Maxx Terra. In a race up our driveway last night which is about 70m long and between 1 in 3 and 1 in 4 in slope we got to the top neck to neck - there was literally nothing in it. Not sure what this provesâŠâŠ
Embn did a test with 25km vs 32Km although didnât including jumping. Fill the void Sam and do a comparison.
TQ???
Without the Rocky Mountain PowerPlay it s not a complet test race
You are surprised the Giant/Yamaha was so good?... and you credit the auto suspension. I don't understand the disrespect (in general media buzz) for the Yamaha motors. I am a big fan of them, riding various Haibike/Yamaha combinations since 2016. Always thrilled with their performance and never a problem. Here in the USA, the smaller and smaller Haibike presence severely limits our choices to buy a premium eMTB with a Yamaha. Giant looks real good. I am looking forward to hearing what GasGas /Raymon has in store for 2022. I am disappointed the Yamaha YDX-Moro Pro is a lower spec bike, but still may buy one for what I believe is the best motor. Why is Yamaha losing market share?
Ron the old Yamaha was not as good as the bosch or brose or shimano but the new one really shocked me! I think Yamaha are real players now and nothing but respect â itâs better than the ep8 and as good as the brose and bosch
Unlock/upgrade the controllers & restart. Thatâs something worth watching @samsbikes
Bafang G510 would wipe the floor on all these with power and speed.
No entiendo como no se prueban los motores de una forma sencilla, una subida de 500mts al 20%y a si sabemos cual tiene mĂĄs potencia real en subida ,el cronĂłmetro no engaña đâ±ïž
Which one is quietest? For some, that is the critical question. Me? I can never live with a Shimano, even the 'improved' 801.
Check this new video out czcams.com/video/2ipfpar4ARQ/video.htmlsi=YguyDuzHTnWuLHQr
1:00 attach a macrophone? What's a macrophone?
Itâs a rode but Iâve not changed to DJI mics amazing
@@SamsBikes it was a joke on your accent đ€Łđ€Ł pretty cool though
@@zalle1 hahaha ok thanks
TQ?????
I have yamaha and bosch, yamaha more economic for battery and quite, bosch very aggressive :)
and the winner is....... the Dyname motor by Rocky Mountain.
Rocky mountain 108 nm
paahhh, the noise is different after the initial grease on the gears has worked out of the teeth.
Rocky Mountain Dyname 4.0?
Iâm trying
You missed a rocky mountain here, maybe who knows!!!!!!
Il faut comparer Ă minimum avec la paire de roue et poid Ă©quivalent.
Not really comparable as you have two alloy frames which will weigh a bit more.
Sam why is No one looking at Dyname Specifically in the Rocky Mountain Ebikes 109 Newton meters of torque. Hands-down in my opinion the best motor of the E bikes and no has No comparisons.
I have emailed them a few times no replyâs.
stick a dongle on it they can get up to 35mph on my bosch cx
2 wheels 27,5 less diameter vs 29=10/20 cm less around wheel,in 10 meters lose 1/2 meter en 50 m lose 5/10meter with 100 meters lose 10/20 meter with 250 meter lose 25/50meters= more time .The test need all wheels 29 and 180mm comparison.
You were pushing much harder in the Levo.. not a fair test.
And the giant won? Haha ok maybe I really needed a power meter next time Iâll get one and keep my leg power the same
impossible to compare it this way, there are too many variables. Would only be possible withe the exact same bike with different motors.
Ok you supply the bikes and Iâll do the test! Haha mate I try my best to give what I can
I think you should introduce more variables into your head to head tests. đ€Šđ»ââïž
Haha I know right but better than nothing I think!
Yamaha motor was crazy fast. Wasnât my pick at all.
Looks like Polini itâs the fastest motor at the moment.
I need to test that motor bad
@@SamsBikes i have a couple of friends that are racing on fulgur bikes with Polini and they are telling me itâs a killer combo.
Try to get your hands
On that bike , I
Would be interested in y
Your opinion .
Uhhh...none of'em are faster than the Rocky Mountain Dyname 4.0.
None of the above.
Dyname all day long. Ride a Rocky Mountain Powerplay once and you'll never turn back.
I donât understand how Shimano can get so behind
yep not sure I have never been very impressed by the EP8
The probelm is that to claim 85nm the motor only needs to make it at one cadence not at all cadence.
I went from pivot shuttle with ES7000 to Santa Cruz Bullit with EP8. I honestly didn't notice much difference. Then I saw a review that pointed out how bad at climbing the bullit is (climbing geo hadn't really been a consideration with ebikes until then...). However bike geo should not be under estimated. Bikes which are a pig to climb aren't going to do as well in tests no matter what the motor. I know such a test is not very practical as you can't switch motors between brands. And don't expect the EP8 to suddenly come out on top, I don't think it's that great, but possibly the difference would be less.
having owned the yamaha and a spez brose I can say the EP8 is not a motor that one just gets on and rides like the others. I have ridden the Bosch too. The EP8 needs some finesse and figuring out. Once you learn how she likes to be ridden it's quite nice. I find that the EP8 likes the smaller gears and power from your legs. It''s not very fond of overrun
@@chickenclips "I find that the EP8 likes the smaller gears and power from your legs." - must be why I like it. i just need some help (cancer/chemo = weak), but I don't see the point in getting a bike that does ALL of the work for me... if I wanted that Id just get a motorcycle.
Sigh,,,,,this emphasis on power and speed is not helpful. These kind of reviews rattle the e-bike marketers to push their engineers to focus on packing in power and speed to the detriment of other criteria that would make e-mountain bikes practical for long bike packing trips away from the grid. Yes, long distance, multi-day bikepacking is very important for the sustainable future of e-mountain bikes. The reason is that the power and speed emphasis is encouraging riding behavior that doesn't mix well with non-motorized activities such as hiking, horses, and un-assisted MTB. In other words e-mountain bikes may end up getting banned from places where they had been previously mixing in with all other types of non-boosted users.
What about encouraging criteria for smaller motors that provide assistance when needed without so much motor drag and extra bike weight that the bike is a pig unless the motor is active.
What last weeks videos itâs on range
Video title : 'Which Is FASTEST?'
Actual video : 4:52 'We are not going out of the limiter in any of these tests'. Thanks for the waste of time, guys. You're making a whole video of telling which restricted motor is the fastest, ... when the speed limit you refuse to exceed is 25 Km/H, anyway ... So, I guess, by your standards, all of these motors should be equally as fast, since they can all reach 25 Km/H. What about actually going fast ? What about removing the ridiculous limiter and doing a proper test, either on a private road or by slapping a license plate on the bikes, so it's legal to ride them at a faster pace ? After all, it's supposed to be a speed test - not a 'I refuse to go faster' test.
Iâll try better next time Jack
1. Bosch and Brose 3. Yamaha 4. Shimano
Yep đ if I was racing I think it would be bosch first then brose or giant second need to test the giant more
All lame compared to Rocky Mountains 108NM torque motor.
I need to try it!
@@SamsBikes It will climb what other bikes cant, big time !
looks like you rated them all 1st and 2nd. Not helpful. They should be rated 1,2,3,4,5, etc. don't rate them all the same. I wasted 3 min watching your video.
Sorry đ your not happy i would be happy to give you a full refund
Yamaha and Bafang? Nothing?
The Giant is the Yamaha PWX3 motor, with Giant's software
Bafang?? na bro what good bike can you buy it in? Giant SyncDrive is the PW-3 with Giants software..
In all seriousness you make yourself look pretty silly dismissing the new Bafang M510 with your above comment.
Youâre basically just straight up saying that youâre biased.
âWhat good bike can you buy it inâ? Literally dozens of really nice carbon frames available for the M510âŠ
I think he means complete bikes. Most e bike buyers arenât gonna build up from a frame.
â@@Rorzzer123 Sorry but he's right, no major brand is using the Bafang motor...pretty much nobody is riding that motor on the trails as it's not available on the regular market. We're not saying the motor is crap, we're saying the extreme poor availability render a comparison useless.
Sam, I know that its hard to find content to make new videos. However, does it really mean a pinch of goat shit as to what your electric leg does? Main thing is how far and for how long without breaking.
The bike world is full of dicks that chase the latest fad or fashion, pay through the nose for shit, looking to chip their bikes to get more power advantage or the flashest shorts to impress their boy/girl friend.
Ride for fun in fun locations and screw the other crap.
Next week full range test and full motor break down! This was a little click baity I know but still interesting for me to do abs it hurts haha