2023 Hall of Fame Ballot, a breakdown
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
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00:00 - Intro
0:09 - The Ballot
1:06 - Carlos Beltran
4:21 - Trendy Sabermetric Guys
5:03 - Scott Rolen
5:30 - Todd Helton
7:06 - Billy Wagner
7:54 - Andruw Jones
10:12 - The Steroid Guys
12:20 - Alex Rodriguez
15:18 - Omar Vizquel
16:55 - Jeff Kent
19:13 - Mark Buehrle
21:06 - Bobby Abreu
22:55 - Jimmy Rollins/Torii Hunter
23:41 - Francisco Rodriguez
26:14 - One-and-Dones
31:37 - Filling Out The Ballot
36:51 - Writer's Ballot Predictions
38:31 - BBHOF Tracker
39:30 - Contemporary Era Committee
40:08 - Bonds & Clemens
40:54 - Curt Schilling
41:52 - Fred McGriff
42:18 - Other Committee Guys
44:45 - Committee Members
46:21 - Committee Predictions
49:04 - Conclusion - Hry
A lack of Dave Stieb on the committee ballot is maddening.
Obviously not enough of them have seen the Secret Base video
And Jack Morris is on the CBE electorate. No justice.
I think it's because it's the contemporary era comitee, and Dave Stieb falls into the modern era; we'll see next year if he's on the ballot (as he should).
Never came close to a 20 win season or 200 wins.
@@jarodarmstrong Morris won 20 or more 3 times, with more than 250 wins. Stieb never won 20 games, and only 176 wins.
I hope the guy that only puts Jeff Kent on his HOF ballot every year does it again
we talking about Dan Shaugnessey? coming from a Sox fan he’s an absolute clown
We have to get Bailey a HOF vote
We have to keep this comment at 69 likes
I love him and I enjoy his content more than any other. But NO...NOT AT ALL.
Bailey would never be accepted by the BWAA
He actually uses all 10 spots, explains his positions and makes sense doing so
Baseball CZcamsrs are just as valid as legacy media guys
We could try and get him the next best thing, which is the BBWAA Career Excellence Award for "meritorious contributions to baseball writing," or the Online Journalism Award for innovation in the digital medium
Fun Scott Rolen stat.
3rd baseman with a career 120 OPS+ and 20+ dWar.
-Scott Rolen
-There is no other 3rd baseman who have done this.
I grew up a Cardinals fan, he was such a stud in those early to late 2000 years in St. Louis. Hope he gets in this year.
I hope Nolan Arenado eventually joins this club. He's deserving of the Hall already in my opinion even without the playoff stuff
I just hope he doesn’t get the Ron Santo treatment and only get in right after he dies
How close was Mike Schmidt?
@@SirTylerGolf 18.4 dWAR so pretty close
Dave Stieb needs to go onto the veterans' committee Hall of Fame ballot. He got snubbed for the Cy Young at least 3 times and helped the Blue Jays win two World Series, and he has the highest WAR in Jays history.
Someone watches Secret Base 😂 Great documentary
10000%.
@@CheeseMasterSports You caught me. Lifelong Jon Bois fanboy and sports stats aficionado
@@dominicpancella3012 Love that! As am I
True, except for the fact that he helped them win the world series twice. Huge Stieb fan here but that is not a fact.
What Todd Helton did for the MLB in Colorado is worth an induction, not to mention his absolute run for a few years in the 2000s for RBIs
It should be mentioned that Bronson Arroyo, Jared Weaver, and Jayson Werth all had elite hair
I still can’t believe billy wagner isnt in the HOF yet. One of the best closers of all time, and did it during the steroids era
Basically the best dedicated closer after Rivera in anyone's view.
Closers are like designated hitters. They're stepping to the plate with an 0-2 count, so to speak, because they pitch so few innings and saves are a garbage stat. While DH guys are, as a Bud Light commercial once put it, "a baseball player who doesn't need to own a baseball glove."
@@SimuLord Yeah but that's an unfair position to put them in. Closers and DHs shouldn't be compared to other roles, they should be viewed as what they are and compared against other closers and DHs. I'm not saying we should start putting exceptional equipment managers in the HOF, rather that IP shouldn't matter for closers if they're the best at what they do.
I don't believe HOF voting should go down the route of "this position isn't that valuable, so the players in it aren't that valuable regardless of how good they are."
He isn’t that deserving if you ask me, Trevor Hoffman racked up a ton of saves and for a while until Rivera broke it, held the all time Saves record.
@@SimuLord Could the following stat be better than saves:
I call it “quality relief appearance percentage”:
The number of appearances where the reliever allowed no runs (earned or unearned), no more than one base runner, and pitched at least one inning as a percentage of games relieved.
Could that be better than raw saves?
Fun fact: Billy Wagner is right-handed but taught himself how to throw lefty and wound up sticking with it.
Yeah, I think the story is that he broke his right arm one summer as a child, so started learning to throw left handed instead.
My Diamond Dynasty team is thankful for this
Mark Buehrle deserves to be in the HOF just for drinking "Definitely no more than 3" beers then getting a world series save, sabermetrics be damned.
If Mark Buehrle makes it in, I'm partying. Growing up watching him put out year after year of great but not necessarily elite stuff, as soon as he moved to Toronto, I had him pegged for the highest echelons of the Hall of Very Good. I still don't want to get my hopes up.
If Tim Hudson didn’t make it, I can’t see Buehlre
He’s definitely historically underrated of course-dude pitched 200 innings every year for a dozen years and the one time he didn’t he still had 198
Thank you for highlighting some of the people that won't make the HOF but deserve respect for great careers!
It’s certainly cool to be included on the ballot even if you aren’t someone who has any chance.
To appear on a ballot, you still had to play a decade, and have a career that stood out to the nominating committee.
For those guys, it’s a cool token of appreciation six years after they retire.
Can we, as the internet, come together start a worldwide campaign for a Bobby Abreu HOF Induction?
We could, and all five members of the BBWAA that know how to use a computer might vote for him!
I'm all aboard
New Larry Walker
@@erykjones5170 Pretty sure less than that know how to navigate baseball reference
How about HOVG hall of very good? He was consistently good but was never great. The Gwynn comparison is interesting but Gwynn was a league leader in things such as avg and hits when those were the priority back then. Abreu led a couple times in triples and doubles but other than that just didn’t stand out. Compound that with his era being the most offensively powered ever and I just don’t think he should make it in my book. Alas I do have a preference for a smaller HOF as I think baseball should remain the more exclusive one vs a basketball hof where guys like saurunas marcioulonas can get in
It's funny that when talking about Andruw Jones you mentioned injury and eye condition, because that's what Edgar Martinez battled the majority of his career.
People's argument that he was only a DH so he doesn't matter is worthless being he was forced into the DH role due to a knee injury.
David Ortiz on the other hand was a DH because he had the defensive skills of Jesse Winker
The problem for Martinez is he was only a third basemen for a few years and not exactly a gold glover. If the injury ended his career, he's not even considered for the hall of fame. If Jones career had ended sometime shortly after the 2007 season, he would already be in the hall. His numbers were already good enough and everyone would assume he would have stacked up even more amazing stats. Instead we got 7 seasons of stealing money to be mediocre at best. That seriously stains the memory of the best decade a CF ever had.
I love your videos about some of the history of baseball, like the HoF, I'm from Brazil and just started following baseball in the last decade or so, watching your content feels like discovering more layers of the sport. Keep it up!! It's like hearing my father talk about brazilian football of the 80's, I love it!
28:55 J.J. Hardy was one of my favorite players to watch on the O’s. He might not make it a second year on the ballot, but I will always remember he hit that home run back in 2012 that Mike Trout made the iconic catch of, which stands out to me as one of the first moments I realized that Trout was gonna be special.
I'll always remember the game he wrapped 2 homers around Pesky's pole at Fenway.
Dude was a much better shortstop than people remember, on both sides of the ball
I miss J.J.
Loved him when I was a kid. Was so sad when the Brewers traded him away.
I think the steroid tax is a great idea, and I wish the BBWA would actually put some time into a transparent formula to use in all cases. Like I get it, Bonds is a big cheater, but he's also literally the best hitter of all time. It makes the hall feel like a relic when they can't find a way to recognize that while still calling out the cheating.
Um, Teddy Ballgame would like a word concerning “literally the best hitter of all time”
But you’re right: Bonds is one of the top 10 players of all time before even smelling BALCO
@@warlordofbritannia nope, ted williams was amazing but bonds clears
Totally agree. I'd split the difference between Bailey's 20 and 30% suggestions and go with 25%.
Let's take a look at Barry Bonds if we assume that he only used steroids when he was with the Giants (which is a flawed but simple assumption, but he had a 147 OPS+ in Pittsburgh as a younger man and 199 in Frisco as an older one) and take a look at his career numbers. I'll also keep the number of at bats and plate appearances the same so the rate stats decrease by 25% as well. Alongside each counting stat I've included the absolute difference and his all-time rank at the time of this writing.
2,986 games played (±0; 11th)
12,606 plate appearances (±0; 10th)
9,847 at bats (±0; 36th)
1,838 runs scored (-389; 16th)
2,447 hits (-488; 118th)
506 doubles (-95; T-58th w/ Babe Ruth)
67 triples (-10; T-432nd w/ Chick Hafey, Ron Santo, and Hack Wilson)
615 home runs (-147; 7th)
1,636 runs batted in (-360; T-32nd w/ Ernie Banks)
448 stolen bases (-66; 54th)
78.3% SB efficiency (was at 78.5%)
2,071 walks (-487; 2nd behind Rickey Henderson)
1,302 strikeouts (-237; 155th)
.249 batting average
.381 on-base percentage (went from 7th to 170th)
.501 slugging percentage (went from 8th to 109th)
.882 OPS (went from 5th to 98th)
132 OPS+ (T-31st among players with 10,000+ PAs w/ Rafael Palmeiro and Joe Morgan)
4,932 total bases (-1,044; 23rd)
544 intentional walks (-144; still 1st by a wide margin over Albert Pujols)
134.7 bWAR (-28.1; T-8th with Tris Speaker among batters AND pitchers, T-5th if only batters included)
102.0 bWPA (-25.7; 4th between Ted Williams and Hank Aaron)
11 All-Star selections (-3; T-39th w/ 7 Hall of Famers plus Roger Clemens and Albert Pujols)
6 MVP awards (-1; still doubles up the 10 players tied for 2nd at 3)
7 Gold Gloves (-1; T-14th among outfielders alongside Larry Walker, Carl Yastrzemski, and 3 others)
10 Silver Sluggers (-2; still most among outfielders, 1 ahead of Mike Trout)
So I still think he's a 1st ballot Hall of Famer with all those reduced numbers, but it would certainly be up for more debate, especially with some of his stats taking those deep nosedives down the leaderboards. However, if you did this for every steroid player I bet he'd be higher up, so the rankings are most definitely not final.
@@warlordofbritannia Hot take: I think Ted WIlliams is the Wilt Chamberlain of baseball: he had near mythic accomplishments, stats look crazy even now, but because of the time and competitive environments they played in, their validity is questioned. I think Ted is an all-timer, but I also think the average quality of pitching in Bonds' day was significantly higher.
Williams hit .364 with 10 HR in over 100 plate appearances against Bob Feller - who was throwing 98mph heat in the 40s.
It’s still so sad that Joe Nathan didn’t make it to the 5% threshold. Like Bailey said last year, there was a time where Joe Nathan was consistently the 2nd best reliever in baseball despite him not having a huge postseason career. I hope K-Rod and Wagner do make it because relievers are such a huge part of the game, but get no love for the hall
K-Rod is getting another look, but I wouldn’t expect him to make it.
Wagner is probably getting in eventually.
I loved this video last year, can't wait to watch this year's!
I have my own version of "the Steroid Tax," in that I attempt to determine which years are suspicious and which are not. With Bonds, my sense is that the 20th-century version of him is probably clean. Using the highly scientific process of observing his body type from baseball cards, it appears 1999 or 2000 comtained the likely critical point. Clemens' "clean" period seems to be his Red Sox years. His career was tailing off a bit, then suddenly enjoyed a crazy uptick with the Jays. (Plus, the Toronto era is when McNamee said he injected Clemens.)
Using this, Bonds' 1986-99 alone is HOF-worthy, as is Clemens' 1984-1996. Bonds' had a bWAR of 103.7 and an OPS+ of 166 in that span, putting him on par with the likes of Jimmie Foxx and Ty Cobb, while that bWAR total would still be in the top 20. (Plus three MVP awards and the span in which he was an asset defensively.) With Clemens, we're talking 144 ERA+ and 80.7 bWAR. That ERA+ is almost equal (slightly higher) than his reportedly juiced years, where as the 80.7 total in 13 seasons is ahead of what Schilling did in 20 and Verlander has so far amassed in 17.
Put simply, even if someone was to outright concede Bonds' and Clemens' PED usage, they still assembled Hall of Fame bodies of work. You can't say the same for any other of the suspected players from the late 1990s and early 2000s.
I got to "Everyone ahead of him is either in the Hall of Fame or Mike Trout" and choked a bit on my water. I know it wasn't _intended_ to be funny, but it was.
such a nerdy thing that means nothing but amazing vid happy these are going to be yearly :)
I think Bobby Abreu should definitely get in, 8 seasons over .400 OBP, and eight seasons in a row of 100+ walks
I don’t think people talk about Jacoby Ellsbury’s 2011 season enough. Dude was insane. I was lucky enough to see him play in person that season and 11 year old me was def in awe of his play
This was the first time listening to one of your videos. I am 57 years old and have loved baseball since I was very young. Excellent analysis of the ballot and very well presented. I think you are going to be 100% right. We shall see. Keep up the great content.
Thank you!
@@FoolishBaileydo this every year. For the committees I think an old timer who should get in is Bobby Matthews. Do videos on the other players throughout history and the different committees. You offer something different going deep into the stats
Re Buerhle - my high pitching coach’s philosophy was “work quick and pound the strike zone” the logic being that you keep your defense from zoning out and keep them moving around
Loved your thoughtful breakdown.
Unironically been incredibly excited for this video
Jayson Werth! One of my all-time favorites. His walkoff HR against the Cardinals in game 4 of the 2012 NLDS was the greatest moment of my life as a sports fan until we won against the cheaters in 2019. Hilarious, awesome guy
I do agree that there were people above Beltran that could've stopped the sign stealing but according to Rosenthal's reporting it would've never happened if it wasn't for Beltran and Cora.
Every time I click on your ballot videos I think to myself "no way I make it through all 40 mins" and yet every time I watch the full thing and find myself fully invested in a guy that I never saw play
I'm very surprised Bronson Arryo was on the list, fan favorite in Cincinnati! Glad to see him get a little recognition
What a great in-depth video
31:03 Also gotta give Jayson Werth props for one of the best postgame interviews in baseball history, if you know the one.
BBWA doesnt even deserve our time. Bonds was a first ballot HOF with 100 bWAR before he started using steroids. Clemens is a top 5-10 pitcher of all time and a huge portion of players he was competing against were also using. There is so much favoritism when they ignore Ortiz's potential positive test but punish guys who were using when the league didn't care about it and were de facto encouraging it by promoting the Mcgwire Sosa home run race.
no shit sherlock, but its fun to talk about
100% agree this feels more like a popularity contest than people who truly deserve to hall of Famers.
U said "potential" we all knew bonds were on steroids. I also hate the argument he was good before them. Like ya that's why I'm more mad. He didn't need to take steroids to be great and yet he cheated to be better. I'm glad bonds isn't it, I'm fine with him in it as long as it's prominent that he cheated his way to number 1
@@Zo3yX Sorry, but baseball has such a shady side to it that unless you commit crimes against humanity, it's hard defending anyone not getting in with their off the field issues. People vilify the 2017 Astros while the top players of the 1982 Cardinals were all avid drug users and not held to the same standard. Taking a moral high ground to "game integrity" is a losing fight because of how much "these guys did worse" is.
@@Zo3yX during that time, everyone did steroids so by defacto bonds had to use them to keep up with them hulks over in Oakland.
The worst part of hof voting is the 10 vote max. Why should we have to compare the players to the other players on the ballot rather than only comparing them to the rest of the hall of fame? What if there are more than 10 hof caliber players on the ballot?
I get the principle of what ur saying but even if there are more than 10 on a specific years ballot, players can be on for up to 10 years so that solves that issue.
To not water down the hall of fame? They get 10 years.
I feel like the argument is that there is 10 years of eligibility. And it is not likely that there will be 10 new players that clearly belong in the HOF added to the ballot every year. So, if there are only 2-3 new HOF caliber players coming onto the ballot in any given year, even if there is an outlier year with 6-7 new players that are HOF caliber, they will eventually filter up to the top of the ballot and a few of the fringe HOF candidates will also probably eventually filter up to the top. Definitely not a perfect system, but there is at least some justification for how it works.
Back in 1950 when there were only 16 teams and a few hundred big leaguers it probably made sense
Now we have twice as many teams, about 2.5 times as many players…and still only 10 spots
Also, I think when the ballot is not clogged up with half a dozen clearly HOF caliber players (by stats) that are never gonna get in due to scandals, it'll be easier for other people to get in. The last 10 years where Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens sat on the ballot with 50% of the voters going "They are clearly HOF worthy, regardless of any steroid use" and then another 50% of voters going "I will never vote for them, no matter what they accomplished" created a lot of scenarios where some fringe players had a hard time getting the necessary 75% of votes. In a world without the scandals, Barry Bonds would have been on exactly 1 ballot and then everyone could have used that vote on other people for the following 9 years. Instead, 50% of the voters basically had to lose a vote for 10 years wasting it on Bonds because of the other 50% of voters that were stubborn beyond belief. And before you say "The 50% that chose not to vote for Barry Bonds were voting for other people, so it equals out" it doesn't really work that way in practice because the fringe HOF candidates that are struggling to get up to 75% within that 10 years of eligibility are going take votes away from each other because there is an argument for all of them.
Bagwell,Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez, and yes,Jim Thome. Saw ALL of these guys play,in person. They were juicing. Also, Ricky Henderson,Tim Raines
I remember seeing a hilarious quote about Curt Schilling on an OOTP loading screen once
"Every 5th day he was our horse. Every other day, he was a horse's ass" -his former manager (jim fregosi i think??)
Funniest possible outcome for the contemporary era thing would be Rafael Palmeiro being the only inductee
Man reading that made me belt out a good one.
You should do a video on starters that switched to closing and vice versa.
Rolen, Helton, Wagner are some of the greatest I've ever seen play. Those four deserve to be in the hall, I would even argue that Abreu should be in there too.
Love the 5 stripes kit.
When I think about Bond’s chances with the veterans committee names on it like Frank Thomas jump out at me. They were diametrically opposed in their philosophy of baseball. Their interview about Players as Role models floating around the Spheres makes me wonder if Frank will be a supporter or opponent of his inclusion.
Let’s hope he isn’t
Thomas is already on record as stating that he thinks Bonds and Clemens should be in, so he isn't going to be the big wall to them that people keep thinking (Chipper has said the same too). It's the really old guys like Jack Morris that will have a stick up their ass about Bonds and Clemens.
@@OmegaTyrant jack morris is a giant asshole anyway so it's ironic he'd be talking about role models lmao
I hope Dave Stieb gets in eventually, but I think the fans probably want him in more than the veterans do, we’re gonna need to do some serious campaigning if Stieb is gonna get in
We all just have to send messages to the members of the era committee to tell them to watch Jon and Alex's documentary on his career
If Barry Bonds isn't a Hall of Famer, just tear the building down. It's meaningless.
Nobody has ever taken the HoF seriously though
Gosh, when you talked about Beltran and pulled up the JAWS stats… the only thing I saw is that KENNY LOFTON SHOULD BE A HALL OF FAMER!!!! Aaaahhhhhhhhhh
I want a "Rock n Jock" wing in the Hall of Fame. It would be filled with all the coolest players from when I was a kid that were nowhere near as good as I remember. Jose Canseco, David Justice, David Wells, Rod Beck, Benjamin Franklin Rodrigues... Rick "Wild Thing" Vaughn... the kid with the robot arm from Rookie of the Year.
I’d like to see how a group of baseball fans given the same rules and criteria as the writers would do in creating their own HOF. Start at like the 1980 ballot and run through their own ballots. Then see how their results compare to the current HOF when they get to the current year or 5 years beyond.
This
The voters held a grudge against Kenny Lofton a lot longer than you're proposing for Beltran, and all he did was impugn Joe Torre's character, compared to cheating your way to a world series ring.
Billy Wagner was coached by one of my guidance counselors in high school.
Mr. Tolley's office would make an acceptable Billy Wagner museum all by itself
You gotta put mattingly in if you combine the managing too and he’s still not done actually I forgot where he went tho
Loved the Palmeiro comments
I’m more curious if Mets fans would have a mini civil war over wether or not they should be happy for Beltran getting into the HOF(it’s gonna happen. No manager job is probably the extent of his punishment). I know plenty of ‘em have forgiven his transgressions and even wanted him as the manager but 2006 still makes alot of their kind cartoonishly mad/sad.
I appreciate you talking and Mark Buehrle, so I hope you don’t mind me making a further case for him in your comments.
There are some statistics that don’t immediately pop off the Baseball Reference page that highlight how unique and historic Mark Buerhle’s career was. Let’s start with consistency. Between 2001 and 2015 Mark Buehrle pitched 3232 innings. In the same timeframe the next highest innings total belonged to CC Sabathia who pitched 2988.2 innings, a difference of 243.1 innings. Buehrle went so deep into games with such consistency that over the course of his career he pitch an additional season worth of baseball. Buehrle was also the first pitcher ever with 200 innings and 61 or fewer walks in 14 straight seasons. The current streak for consecutive 200 inning seasons belongs to Sandy Alcantara who has done it two(2) seasons in a row.
Next, we can talk about unique baseball accomplishments. Buehrle was a great fielder, as evidenced by his 4 gold glove awards. On April 18th, 2007 Mark Buehrle faced 27 batters and recorded 27 outs against the Texas Rangers in the first no hitter of his career. The lone walk was earned by Sammy Sosa, who Mark Buehrle immediately asked to leave the basepaths thanks to his elite pick off move. So close to perfect. But that’s okay, because 2 seasons later, on July 23rd, 2009, Buehrle would just do it again, but better, against the Tampa Bay Rays and earn the 18th perfect game in MLB history. To this day Mark Buehrle is the only pitcher in the 152 year history of the MLB to pitch multiple no-hitters and earn multiple gold gloves.
Then there is all the other cool shit Mark Buehrle did. Save in Game 3 of the World Series, aided by an illicit substance(Busch Lite) - side note, he’s the only player left from the 2005 World Series Champion White Sox who is eligible for the Hall of Fame, it would be a shame is nobody on that roster made it into the Hall of Fame. 9 opening day starts, most in White Sox history. Rain delay slip & slide. Insane pace of play that the league is currently trying to legislate into the game.
We can all agree that the Baseball Hall of Fame is meant to celebrate the greatest baseball players of all time. We can also all agree that the sabermetrics era has made it undeniable who the greatest players of all time are. So what is the point of the hall of fame now, if not to reflect a human element that is not reflected on a baseball reference page? Mark Buehrle is simply one of the most unique payers baseball has ever seen, if the Baseball Hall of Fame isn’t for him, then who is it for?
My mock ballot Abreu, Beltran, Buehrle, Helton, Kent, A-Rod, K-Rod, Rolen, Rollins, Wagner
cheaters belong in the hall of shame
Bailey, I’d like to hear your opinion on does it “matter” if a player gets in on their first ballot or their final ballot. Also how much percentage a hall of famer gets in on, whether it be 75% or unanimous
In most cases it doesn’t really matter with 1st ballot guys unless they just get over the 75. If a guy like Altuve or Trea Turner retired and got in on Year 1 with exactly 75%, people would be fine with them in the Hall, but would be surprised because most would consider them like a 4th-6th ballot
Beltran was the guy who brought the sign stealing scheme from New York to Houston
Yeah it's kinda weird to be like "he was just a player" when he was one of the two architects behind it. As was stated, Beltran "steamrolled" anyone who was opposed to using the system, including Brian McCann.
I had /no/ idea about the Omar Vizquel stuff, but o h m a n
Agreed on most. I differ and put in Torri Hunter, and abstain on Abreu. As a 90's kid who watched both of their careers I think Hinter was more significant and impactful. Glad Rolen got in and GREAT CALL!
That baffles me how texeira, Howard, and fielder got kicked off just after 1 time on the ballet. You could easily make a case for hof
Not a _good_ case.
Just talked to Frank Thomas (yes that Frank Thomas) and he said Bonds should’ve made it, he’s a no doubt HOFer
Statistics aside, just from the eye test, Gary Sheffield and Manny Ramirez are 2 of the best hitters I've seen in my lifetime.
Torii Hunter was an amazing player, great, unbelievably good center fielder with a really solid bat to boot, played great for multiple seasons. I'd love to see him make the Hall of Fame but it doesn't seem like he will, it would really sadden me if Torii got added to the list of great 00's twins players to not make the hall, Johan, Morneau, Nathan didn't make it. At this point if Torii and Mauer got added to that list I would riot. This will be the year for him to make a gain and hopefully improve on his HOF case. Really hoping the best for him
Don’t worry, Mauer will be a 1st ballot guy.
Hey Bailey, I know the character clause is usually used against players getting in, but I want to flip it around here. Who would be your top choices to be inducted based on their character
I would vote for RA Dickey and jayson werth. Dickey is one of just a few people to master the knuckle and werth has an awesome beard let alone the werthquake to send the nationals to game 5, and he was a cornerstone of the franchise for so many years.
are you trolling
as a Nats fan I bitched for years that Werth was 100% not worth the insane price tag we gave him and he absolutely dragged down the lineup and limited their ability to sign and re-sign actually good players.
@@mattcook3291 probably on the werth thing, but i do think that dickey has a case. he certainly fits the "fame" part, being a knuckleballer who won a cy in the 2010s is fucking crazy
IMHO Torii Hunter deserves a deeper look. I feel he is just like Andruw Jones but without the pop. Also Torii aged nicely and dominated defensively in CF in the AL like the same amount of time as Jones
There is a lot of controversy over defensive metrics but if you want to go by them, Jones is the best EVER! And it's not even close. Hunter does well in such metrics but not even close to the top. Hunter hit for better average, Jones for far more power so offensively they are kind of a push. Me, I give the edge to Jones. I don't see how a guy like that, even if you don't believe the metrics that make him the best is clearly still among the best and also had 434 home runs, could not be in the hall. Unless of course you hate domestic abusers just as much as steroid users which is a fair point. Again for me, from what I've read he definitely did wrong but it wasn't that bad. I'd vote for Jones.
So steroids weren’t officially banned by MLB til 05 right? this pettiness by the access media needs to stop.
Steroids have been banned in MLB since 1991, the league did not implement leaguewide PED testing until 2003.
@@92Vreid88 it was a trust system that people failed. Woop dee doo baseball writers.
@@Theorpo Preaching to the choir mate
I think with the most recent WS Altuve won his HOF back
"He got paid, he got fat, and he stopped caring." That's why I'll never get into the Architectural Drafter Hall of Fame.
My thing for buehrle, if jack morris is in for World Series stuff, the entire WS rotation from 05 should be in cuz they went tf off in the playoffs. And he’s also significantly better in the reg szn than Morris
i know this is gonna sound dumb but i just realized that WAR should never be used to compare players that aren't in the same position. Like, ok, maybe one was better than the other relatively speaking for their time at that position, but for overall greatness we should be considering stats that aren't position dependent. I don't know if WPA can be calculated on older players, but I think, to me, that's the ultimate, maybe balanced with cWPA. Because in the end even counting stats don't matter as much as making the plays that matter, at bat or in the field.
That look at the JAWS CF leaders makes me rue that Kenny Lofton still isn't in the HoF...
You were right about Fred McGriff. I’m glad he got in. I think Rolen will get in this year and I think Helton will get in within 3 years.
If A-Rod and David Ortiz can get in, Barry Bonds and Clemens should be in on the contemporary ballot in the next 5 years.
17:25 - 17:30 - "...Prick(ly) Personality..." I caught that!!
if i had a vote i would vote for beltran, helton, jones, kent, rolen, and wagner
Cheaters aren’t allowed in the hall of fame
If I'm not mistaken, did arod come out and said that he started taking peds before his pro career?
Feel like you should give Jroll more of a look.
Gary Sheffield at 68% time to update your video
Thank you for the video and acknowledging Bobby Abreu 👍🏽👍🏽
So if you say that 70 bWAR is a no doubt stat to get you into the HoF Scott Rolen finished at 70.1 I think that he is a HoFer but people don’t
Jeff Kent not making the HOF because he was a bad teammate while Jack Morris is on the contemporary baseball committee would be very on brand for the BBHOF
KRod's problem isn't that he wasn't able to hold on for a few more years, it's that he speant a few years in his early 30's as a set up guy with Milwaukee and Detroit.
I want Scott Rolen in just because he’s from where l’ve lived since 3rd grade in Indiana.
When Beltre gets in, do you think he will go in as a Dodger or Ranger?
This video camo out on Larry Walker's birthday by the way.
Jacoby Ellsbury was everything a Boston fan could ask for. A great base stealer, bat, postseason player, and got the Yankees to give him a big contract just in time for him to collapse. Thanks Jacoby, if I were a voter, I'd vote for you first ballot just for that!
I was just wondering if you could make a video about Edmonds or talk about him in one of these HOF videos. I see his name on that Jaws leaders stats. I've been screaming into the void that he didn't deserve to be 1 and done on the ballot. The HOF voting is a really weird system with artifacts like that which I don't think do much good for baseball as a whole. Who you are on the ballot with shouldn't matter, should it? 10 first ballot hofers retiring at the same time would really fuck over any 2nd balloters who retired at that time
To be fair to the writers, in the mid-2010s they did ask the HOF to up the voting limit from 10 to 12 players, so that they could get through those terribly loaded ballots more efficiently and save otherwise deserving players from falling through the cracks like Edmonds. Unfortunately the HOF denied their request, and now the likes of Edmonds, Santana, Lofton, etc. will have to hope a committee is favorable to them down the road.
8:42 maybe puts it in a little bit of perspective but imagine Benji Molina had the offensive output of Andrew Jones, would he be considered by far the best Molina? Yes.
You cannot vote A-Rod if you wouldn’t vote for Bonds. Bonds should be in imo given just how much he was head and shoulders above others who we know did take steroids.
Alex Rodriguez put up a HoF career at SS, then moved over to 3rd base and put up another HoF career at that position.
crazy to think the astros scandal broke almost 4 years ago now, feels like yesterday
My ballot would be Rolen, Helton, Wagner, Jones, A-Rod, Kent, Rollins, Buehrle, and Beltran
I think R.A. Dickey deserves to stay on the ballot. I hope he gets 5% and gets a couple more years. I don't think he'll ever get in, but truly a unicorn of the baseball world. A knuckleballer who, in his peak, threw the illusive pitch like no other knuckleballer ever had. While he didn't maintain that standard he set in Queens when he won the Cy Young, he did show that he could be a consistent above average starter. I think his story, and the fact that he threw a now virtually extinct pitch should spark enough curiosity and interest to keep him on the ballot, or at least I hope it does. Hope Jones takes another step forward, and I really hope my childhood favorite player Fred McGriff finally gets the HOF designation he deserves. It's a shame he's not already in.
Agreed.
14:00 so it’s a popularity contest essentially?
Yep. That's why Bonds and Clemens didn't get in. The steroids gave people an excuse but people really didn't like 'em, especially the media. Especially Bonds, there's no other way to justify him missing out. Dude had like an entire Hall of Fame career before he cheated and arguably another 2nd one after
Congrats Scott Rolen!!!
You should do an episode how it is getting harder for pitchers to get into the HOF.
Is that because of counting stats getting lower over time?
@@fortynights1513 yes, less innings pitched per year. more use of relievers.
@@duhbigcat1848 well now that’s why more people are pivoting to things like ERA+ and stuff like that.
J.J. Hardy, my favorite player ever, is finally here. I am happy.
I agree with you that you should get a HOF vote for being the "Brad Pitt" of baseball CZcamsrs
I’m at minute 23 and you are talking about steroids. Jhonny peralta also used PEDs long after suspensions were normalized and extremely harsh. Than cardinals gave him that huge contact