Regen brakes on Nissan Leaf motor
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- I set up regenerative braking on the Nissan Leaf motor with Thunderstruck VCU.
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I'm using the Thunderstruck Vehicle Control Unit to control the Leaf inverter.
www.thunderstruck-ev.com/dili...
Here's how to activate the brake lights with the Regen: • Nissan Leaf Motor - Re...
To connect the VCU to the computer, I needed to use a USB to serial 5V TTL-323R cable with 3.5mm plug on the end like this one:
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The longer you talk, the more I think it’s great that folks like you are out there getting the electric diy crowd going. Thanks for the boost up
This is fascinating! Leaf motors are everywhere and Cheap. Having a working controller for them will lead to an explosion of conversions.
Why does it need computer software at all?
Why not analog electronics?
@@JohnSmith-eo5sp The main difficulty is generating via PWM, three sinewaves 120 degrees out of phase. There is no simple way to do this with analog electronics.
@@ShaunDobbie It has always been done analog, we're not talking square waves here!
What about Class-D or Blocking Oscillators?
@@JohnSmith-eo5sp At a certain speed, BLDC motors can't go faster without closed-loop control. This video explains it: czcams.com/video/NXkLydhRvS0/video.html
Cheap? How much?
I'm loving these videos - thanks so much for taking the time to make them. The home grown 'bit of wood and wires' is right up my street!
Really useful understanding the concept of programming regen, thank you!
Your videos are really good , the engineering of the leaf is very good - the gear box bit you did was educational as was the tear down .
Awesome work man, keep up the great video's.
Absolutely love these videos!
You just opened a door for me, Thanks!.keep up the great video's.
You just opened a door for me, Thanks!. Keep up the good work!
Have you began an EV project using this yet?
@@cmonay5403 Not yet, Just acquired a vehicle for the conversion.
Great info there great to see you input to the computer and the program also. thank you 🙏🏼 👍😉
Tanks! Interdsting lernlng. I find you are god to explain komplikated things.
Benjamin, thank you for making these videos! I have subscribed to your Patreon to offer a tad of support to your cause.
Much appreciated!
Good stuff Benjamin!
Excellent and instructive.
A very good encouragement to experiment for EV vonversions.
Nice to see this. Next problem is getting from the motor to the transmission some kind of coupler. I'll bet a lot of people will keep the gearbox if they have a front-wheel drive. Thanks for taking the time and putting this up.
Thanks, Steve!
Yes, it will be interesting to adapt this to a project vehicle.
Based on what I saw taking apart the gearbox, I believe the easiest way to reuse these components in a project is to keep the motor with the gearbox and then use custom half-shafts to a project vehicle drive wheels.
@@BenjaminNelsonX I've cut the CV axial and welded them to other CV axial
Thanks for loading this up 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
thanks for such a good explanation hello from new york
Thank you for experimenting with all this. I am building an electric car and would really like to reuse a Nissan Leaf motor. It's a perfect AC motor for my project: robust, reliable, inexpensive, etc.
Cool stuff Ben, can't wait to see you put it to work. You've got the controls sorted out fairly well. 👍
Thanks for the great video!
Great Video Brother. Thank you!
criminally under viewed.
Please feel free to share the video on social media, forums, groups, etc! I'd love more views!
Good info Ben!
Very nice video, good job
Great video sir!!
Is there cruise controls? Thanks Ben for sharing. Good stuff
I like what i am seeing.... and thinking this on my 2000 NB miata. as a project
👍 I enjoyed
Gem 💎 absolutely wonderful 💯👍
That brushless motor is sickass! Very beautiful sounding from that.
Thanks for sharing,
👍👍👍👍👍THUMBS UP👍👍👍👍👍
Cool stuff
On smaller stuff, if you the thing is spinning the wrong direction when you ask it to go forward, you just swap two of the three motor winding leads. So there is a physical solution to get it to spin the other way, just in case there isn't a software method of doing the same.
My volt is the same way, in reverse there is no regen in reverse...
On a side note, you have given me an idea with getting a leaf motor for a project :D
We have a 2013 Volt. I think I'm going to have to put it in reverse and accelerate hard....
@@BenjaminNelsonX I have a 2017, though I am thinking about going all electric if I can.
Very interesting!
The max rpm in reverse is 3500 rpms (using the stock inverter software, (using open inverter, it will spin full speed)). The inverter seems maintain speed if the motor is spun over 400 rpms unless you have some regen turned on. The motor itself will regen in reverse also, but I'm guessing thunderstuck didn't implement it, OR its another configuration parameter to set. If you had a can sniffer, you could see what commands are being sent to the motor/inverter.
It's interesting to see the differences between the Thunderstruck VCU and the EVBMW VCU.
The Thunderstruck seems to be much easier to configure but I haven't spent much time tweaking the EVBMW VCU yet.
BTW do you know if the Thunderstruck VCU works with the Gen 1 Leaf motor? I'm assuming it will as it connects over CAN.
Regenerative braking is so important for hyper mileage and saving the brake shoes at the same time. Miev and prime both have it and I never had to replace the shoes on the Miev. For a boat will be to much dragging but everything else will be fine.
Ideally, the MOST efficient way to slow down is to coast to a stop. But if you DO need to brake, regeneration into the battery is the way to do it. On our 2004 Prius, the front brake pads were original until well past 100,000 miles! (Did I do it at 150k? I don't remember.)
I have tried braking in the iMiEV in neutral, so that it does NOT use regenerative braking, and I will say that the car has WEAK mechanical brakes. Great with the regen, especially in the Eco or B mode.
@@BenjaminNelsonX The RB works only above 5mph or less that 80% of the charge. I Once , traveled 90 miles on a single charge and had 3 miles left in the battery. The wind and the big trucks help a lot.
You may have just saved me a big headache. Looking to do a leaf motor in my 65 beetle. I'm planning to run it through the existing transmission with a clutch. More research required I suppose
Very interesting
Very helpful as I start in in my Leaf powered conversion. Question: with no PDU in place how is current flowing back to the battery for that bit of recharge via regeneration?
👍👍
In the terminal, once you have performed a command, if you press the up arrow does it show the same command again?
In other terminals I have used this will allow much faster commands if to just want to change one setting quicky
Thanks for the video. Very good! Could you explain what is happening to control phases on regenerative braking? My understanding is that as the rotor have permanent magnets once it runs without voltage on terminals it is sending voltage to battery. But I also understand that for stop the motor some reverse voltage is necessary. Can I assume that some windings on stator is powered for reverse the motor while others are generating voltage to battery? Do you have some oscilloscope footage of regenerative braking working? Lots of questions. Sorry and thanks in advance.
Sorry, I don't have an o-scope, but I'd love to borrow one and see what it looks like on there!
@@BenjaminNelsonX Thank you very much for your quick reply. Unfortunately we do not have any material on how this works. If you get luck with this, please post a video. Thanks again!
in my opinion all ev manufacturers have missed a trick, that is a thumb button on the steering wheel to cut in regen, at will.
A number of electric vehicles have "paddles" on the back of the steering wheel for doing exactly that.
Inverter only forward ? Just inter change one connection on the bus bar ..... the motor will spin opposite. Its a 3phase
gratulalok minden videohoz a jelek szerint minden motor tud regeneralni aramot csak bekell programozni a motor vezerlo egyseget ez igaz vagy sem illetve van mashogy is
Were you able to measure any amp flow on the regen braking?
Is there anything 3 phase out there about half as heavy and half the power of a Leaf motor? The new stuff I've seen in this price category is up there and from brands I have no idea whether or not I can trust. The leaf motor and gearbox is apparently 180lb, plus 30 for the controller and 60 for the rectifier/charger, and 80kW. I'd take about half that if I could find it.
How much those the motor weight? Compare to the whole system (+invertor)?
I could see 2 of these in a mid engine sportscar with 1 on each drive wheel, 1 spinning backward the other spinning forward so regen braking both directions would be useful.
A pair of these motors and inverters would also be a great way to build an electric 4x4.
@@BenjaminNelsonX was thinking on back only something like an MR2 or Fiero budget classic sportscar :) But 4x4 sounds good too.
I have to wait 37 hours LOL
Don’t you know I’m from America I’m in patient LOL
I am interested in this project because I am trying to get a Dodge Epic running.
I think it’s one of four in existence that I know of.🤷♂️.
So hurry up. Just kidding of course you’re doing a great job I’m very impressed by you in several ways keep up the hard work. I will never understand how are you two parks because in my opinion you should be one of the top view people on CZcams. But I guess we are one of the strange ones. Thank you
Ha! Mostly I'm just trying something new. CZcams has this "Premiere" feature, and I've never tried it before. I figured some folks might be looking forward to this video on Regenerative Braking, so I thought I'd give it a shot and make you all wait for it!
@@BenjaminNelsonX 10 seconds... I can wait
you configure it like an ip router, commands are simillar but different application !
You mentioned not knowing how to solve the problem of mounting the motor backwards and get the regenerative braking to work. One thought is to switch two phases to the motor. Maybe the other sensors will dislike that tho.
switching the phases of the motor, is the way they change direction already...
btw mostly commented just to get Ben's reply
Probably easiest just to figure out WHY I wasn’t getting regen in reverse. I’m sure it just needs a setting tweak. If it was an oversight in the design, perhaps the manufacturer could fix it with a firmware update.
@@BenjaminNelsonX The stock motor/inverter can perform regen in reverse. Not sure if thunderstuck implements that or not. I suspect in a vehicle, it will coast to a stop in either direction with no regen.
Dude, this is like the cheapest functional controller I've seen for EVs. It's under $500?!
Yep. Just under $500. www.thunderstruck-ev.com/dilithium-vcu.html
What are the measurements bolt to bolt and spline on the Leaf motor
Hey Ben, thank you for your videos. You make great content that nobody else is making.
But Ben, I was wanting to know if I could get your input on something. Or maybe just a sanity check....
I want to build a hybrid car. Hoping for increased gas mileage and potentially great and situational AWD performance increase. lol
- FWD ICE engine. Leaf swap in the rear (full Leaf subframe mounted likely)
- Dual acceleration pedals (1 for ICE 1 for electric, as other hybrid youtubers have done).
- I'm thinking of using 38120s (for high current discharge/charge capabilities). 100Series and like 3-4Parallel. 160kw potential power. A pack that only weighs a couple hundred pounds.
- Using Thunderstruck and Dilithium (master controller) parts in the mix.
I've been trying to read how strong regen braking is. But it's very complicated. To calculate it, there's efficiency and effectiveness. And within those 2 simple 'e' words is a lot of information that's hard to obtain.
So here's my question:
If I was *mostly* propelling the car with the ICE, and went with a high (not too high) braking force configured in the VCU, and tried to always use regen for braking (except in emergencies), would that be enough to keep my batteries charged?
Any input would be great and much appreciated.
Thanks!
You certainly COULD build a hybrid as you described. In DIY circles, we would call that a "Through The Road" hybrid. In theory, it would work fine, and you'd gain the advantage of four-wheel drive.
Regenerative braking does have the ability to put quite a bit of power IN to the battery. Keep in mind that you will only ever be able to recapture energy into the battery by slowing down the car. So, if you accelerate using ONLY the electric motor, then cruise on the gas engine, and slow with the regenerative brakes, you should be able to recapture much of what you used to accelerate in the first place. But if you use the electric motor more than that, your battery will run down relatively quickly. You need to charge the batteries from an external charger. Regenerative braking by itself only won't be enough to keep your battery charged. If it was, we would all drive around in electric perpetual motion machines.
However, you CAN get energy from the gas engine to charge the batteries. While driving along with the gas engine, you would have regenerative braking on, but only at a relatively low level. You would use more gas, and have to press a little harder on the accelerator. It would be like driving with a parking brake partially engaged, except that this parking brake would be recharging the battery.
You could make a hybrid like this and never have to recharge. (After all, that's exactly what a Prius is.) It's just that you would be doing the the transfer of energy through the wheels instead of through a clever planetary gearing transmission. It would be a little more wear and tear on the tires.
If you played around with the software, and tweaked the regenerative braking, probably have a dedicated regen switch/paddle/control, you COULD build a hybrid like this.
It's not crazy. It can be done, but it would certainly take some trial and error and experimenting to work really well.
@@BenjaminNelsonX thank you so much for your time. I seriously appreciate it.
What were you regenning into?
Could someone point me towards dimensions of the drive unit? Overall height, width, length, weight, and shaft length? Thank you guys!!
How many horsepower comes out from the shaft on that motor?
What if you fitted this to an Archimedes via the right gearing ratio, do you think it would charge up a Nissan Leaf battery bank or two?
You want me to hook up a motor to spin another motor to charge a battery?
What is the source of the power to spin the first motor?
When braking, the brakeregen setting, seems to have to supersede idleregen in some manner. So does the brakeregen setting become the default settings for regen? Or is idleregen always a baseline level of regen, until the brakeregen level of regen supersedes it? (I assume the latter is true to prevent reduced regen initially, when the brtype is set to hall for example)
Brake regen takes precedence over the throttle. I don’t know exactly what would happen if Hall Brake Regen was set lower than the throttle Idle Regen and you just lightly touched the brake.
@@BenjaminNelsonX thx for your feedback. But the scenario, I mentioned did not assume 'Brake Regen was set lower than Idle Regen'... if Hall Brake regen simply takes precedence over throttle Idle Regen', without using the Idle Regen setting as a baseline... when 'you initially touch the brake' it would feel jerky... since regen would drop off initially and then rapidly increase again... even when Brake Regen was set 'higher' than the throttle Idle Regen, which is normal.
So maybe you could, test or research to confirm if Hall Brake Regen does not use the Idle Regen setting as a baseline minimum or not? to prevent a momentary jerky drop in regen
Or maybe I'm just over thinking something that's to trivial to matter?
Probably overthinking it, but it would be interesting to test. I don’t think it would be jerky. Overall, the regen ramps up nicely and I would imagine that it would be smooth going from idle to brake. Really would need to be tested in a car to say for sure.
@@BenjaminNelsonX I don’t think it would be jerky either, just for a different reason. Look forward to your test results.
fwiw this is also great info for Leaf owners
Im starting to work towards making my whole lawn set up solar powered. Im looking for knowledgeable people to support the process. Any suggestions?
There is a lot of great battery powered lawn care equipment nowadays!
It gets complicated to try to charge modern modular lithium packs directly from solar. I would simply use the chargers that come with the battery lawn equipment.
Set up some solar and charge the lawn equipment from the inverter.
Ego is a very popular brand name for electric lawn equipment, among others. egopowerplus.com/
I have a very basic question, why can't you use the VCU/software that's actually in the Leaf? Is it too complicated and integrated with the rest of the vehicle?
The issue is that there's simply no one single piece of equipment in the Leaf that does what the Thunderstruck VCU does. Instead, it's several different components/computers all talking to each other over CANBUS.
I have a friend who wanted to do a conversion by stripping out a Leaf and putting all the components into a kit car. He got very frustrated trying to get all the components connected and communicating properly. In the end, he just bought a Thunderstruck VCU and it worked great for him.
what year is your motor?
This is an EM57 motor pulled from a 2013 Nissan Leaf.
Hi Man, i need to change my van ford transit diesel in eletric van, help me. Im from in Brazil.
Currently building a E bike. Trying to figure out how to employ break regen on it.
most can't do regen... hint just focus on direct drive hub motors
so good luck, not breaking your regen braking ;)
@@nc3826 I have both DD and Gear Drive. I can in fact build a regen system for both. Some of the more expensive ecu provide for regen. I can't afford those. Fet switching will work I'm sure.
@@pulesjet just curious what GD motor do you have that can do regen? since most are newer clutchless designs and are expensive...
btw I c GD motors are clutchless and can do regen now thx
fwiw Ben pointed out make sure the regen does not over charge you battery after its fully charged
@@nc3826 Chit I think your right. The gd would not work. Bafang . FM G020.250/350.D 10 it does in deed use a free wheel clutch within. I purchased 4 of them all but brand new for $50.00 each.
@@pulesjet at least you got them for a good price... and regen for cycling has not been worth the added cost and other trade offs like added cogging for DD...
fwiw I prefer mid-drive units, but at $50.00 each I'm sure what you have will be worth it to you...
1:09 This power system doesn't need computer software control! Go back to analog
Can Thunderstruck work with full 400 volt LEAF battery and 9000 RPM maximum?
Yes.
@@BenjaminNelsonX Awesome, I've been reading places that it can't
@@Turboactive Hmmm. I don't see why it wouldn't. I've rev'd this motor on the bench and it spins crazy fast. Voltage shouldn't be an issue either.
@@BenjaminNelsonX Great news!
Why is there a dead spot at 16% after the idle regen?
That's an adjustable setting. It lets you set the point of your accelerator where ABOVE it you are accelerating, and below it, you are slowing down.
Why does this have a clutch on it?
It's pretty hard to see the drive shaft spin at all without something on it. I was mostly using that clutch disk just as something to mark and occassionally use to spin the shaft more easily by hand.
If a person wanted to use this motor in any kind of a conversion, they would need SOME sort of coupler/adapter etc. to connect it to the driveline. It so happens that a Geo Tracker clutch disk is a pretty close match.
@@BenjaminNelsonX The very next video of yours I watched, you mentioned the reason for this at the very beginning lol
Looks like Cisco router commands.
It's just command line. Used for lots of things, but it's not very "consumer friendly", so a lot of us don't see or use on it a day to day basis.
Content: 1. Premier gimmick: 0.
gimmick??? guess you work for free...SMH... Comment: 0.
With regenerative braking; if you have a custom made battery, how is the power returned/ what manages this? The inverter/bms? I'm new to this stuff sorry ahha