Italian Citizenship by Descent Alert: NEW ROADBLOCKS with MINOR CASES
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
- Italian Citizenship Jure Sanguinis - Important Updated in July 2023 about the "Minor Cases" of Italian Citizenship by Descent.
In late 2022 a few Judges from the Tribunale of Rome started to reject Italian Citizenship by descent cases, stating a minor - also if born abroad - was affected by the naturalization of the Italian parent.
Those well called "Minor Cases".
Hopefully, later, "Minors cases" denials were appealed, and now the Court of Appeal declares those rejections were wrong, so the applicants need to be recognized as Italian Dual Citizens by descent.
What is happening now?
Are the "minor cases" a danger?
Let's see a lit bit about what is a "Minor case" for Italian Citizenship Jure Sanguinis, and how the new Cassazione Ruling 17161/2023 made a controversial decision.
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📌 𝘿𝙞𝙨𝙘𝙡𝙖𝙞𝙢𝙚𝙧 ❗️𝙏𝙝𝙞𝙨 𝙫𝙞𝙙𝙚𝙤 𝙞𝙨 𝙛𝙤𝙧 𝙞𝙣𝙛𝙤𝙧𝙢𝙖𝙩𝙞𝙫𝙚 𝙥𝙪𝙧𝙥𝙤𝙨𝙚𝙨 𝙤𝙣𝙡𝙮.
𝙏𝙝𝙞𝙨 𝙫𝙞𝙙𝙚𝙤, 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙖𝙡𝙡 𝙫𝙞𝙙𝙚𝙤𝙨 𝙥𝙤𝙨𝙩𝙚𝙙 𝙤𝙣 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙔𝙤𝙪𝙩𝙏𝙪𝙗𝙚 𝘾𝙝𝙖𝙣𝙣𝙚𝙡, 𝙢𝙪𝙨𝙩 𝙣𝙤𝙩 𝙗𝙚 𝙘𝙤𝙣𝙨𝙞𝙙𝙚𝙧𝙚𝙙 𝙡𝙚𝙜𝙖𝙡 𝙖𝙙𝙫𝙞𝙘𝙚.
𝙇𝙚𝙜𝙖𝙡 𝙖𝙙𝙫𝙞𝙘𝙚 𝙞𝙨 𝙥𝙧𝙤𝙫𝙞𝙙𝙚𝙙 𝙗𝙮 𝙘𝙤𝙣𝙨𝙪𝙡𝙩𝙖𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣 𝙤𝙣𝙡𝙮, 𝙤𝙣 𝙖 𝙘𝙖𝙨𝙚-𝙗𝙮-𝙘𝙖𝙨𝙚 𝙗𝙖𝙨𝙞𝙨. 📌
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00:00 Introduction
01:18 What are the Minor Cases of Italian Citizenship?
03:12 The First Minor cases
04:50 The New Cassazione Ruling 17161/2023
05:59 Predictions of the future cases?
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Any insight into how the consulates are thinking about this? Also, assuming a denial through the paternal line, would a1948 case through the maternal line be considered?
Hello,
We don’t know how the Consulates and the town halls will proceed as it entirely depends on the Ministry.
For sure, if you have a backup case like a 1948, you can use it.
In next coming videos, there will be another one listing solutions to the “minor cases” as for more recent Court decisions (positive ones) so follow us.
Please reach us for booking a consultation call on your case and advising you how to proceed.
Contact: mbersanilaw.com/contatti
Sincerely,
The Team
Very interesting development ~ precisely relevant to my jure sanguinis case ~ but fortunately, my Citizenship was already granted quite a few years ago (lucky).
Hello, thank you for watching our video.
And, congratulation for your Italian citizenship by descent!
We are still optimistic for the close future on those cases.
Sincerely,
The team.
@@lawfirmbersani *FYI* : My case involved descent through a Great-Grandfather (Italian Citizen) whose only son was my maternal grandfather (born 1907, in a U.S. territory); alive at the time of my birth. My grandfather's only daughter was my mother (born 1933). Great-Grandfather naturalized in 1918 after WW1 Armistice Day, November 11th, when his son was just eleven (t/f still a minor). I submitted the initial citizenship applications for my mother and myself in 2005. Both were granted by the Consulate in 2011. Passports received. I did both (consolidated) applications and all the related research entirely by myself. The process to completion took close to 7 years. [My Great-grandfather's marriage (by proxy) certificate was European but not Italian. It had to be translated into Italian by a Italian government licensed translator at significant expense.] It was a difficult (and time consuming) but ultimately very satisfying endeavor. {I'm a qualified lawyer.}
[**I disagree with The New Cassazione Ruling 17161/2023 - because it maintains that a Parent could have historically voided a child's natural citizenship before they reached the age of majority (legal age) without requiring an agreement from the child. Of course the indendence of minors was viewed differently in the past than under modern law. Still, the court decision is unnecessarily restrictive and does not reflect an enlighted view, IMHO, and should be overturned. Applicants should not be discouraged.]
We totally agree - applicants must not be discouraged. This precedent is not “the end of the road” but we are optimistic this ruling will be overturned by other decisions.
Hi,
Thank you so much. This a great video so well explained.
Are this applied only for US? In my case is Argentina.
Anyway, about this topic, the example was about a grand father born in Italy and then father minor born in US.
What about if the grand father born in Italy, so Italian and proven that never nationalized but emigrated “underage”? would it be required to probe 1 Italian generation up (so Italian great grand father)in the Italian line, if was also not nationalized since the grand father born in Italy emigrated as a minor?
Would be greatfull to hear you opinion
Good morning; thank you for your good question.
Correct.
Suppose you have a GF born in Italy and emigrated as a minor.
In that case, we should proceed in 2 ways: starting from him (if you have a certificate of Non-naturalization) or starting from a generation up (GGF).
The strategy can be set only on a case-by-case basis.
Please reach us to book a consultation call on your case and advise you how to proceed.
Contact: mbersanilaw.com/contatti
Sincerely,
The Team
Very informative video. Could the Italian consulate revoke citizenship by decent that was already recognized based on this precedent?
Hello, no that’s not possible.
In next video we will talk about solutions to the “minor cases” as for more recent Court decisions (positive ones) so follow us.
Please reach us for booking a consultation call on your case and advising you how to proceed.
Contact: mbersanilaw.com/contatti
Sincerely,
The Team
Thank you for the video. A quick question, If my Italian grandfather naturalized BEFORE the birth of my mother, is it useless to apply for the Italian citizenship by Descent or is there still a hope? Thanks :)
Please reach us for booking a consultation call on your case and advising you if/how to proceed.
Contact: mbersanilaw.com/contatti
Sincerely,
The Team
Naturalization before birth cuts the line of descent. Your grandfather was no longer an Italian citizen at the time of your mother's birth, so the citizenship could not be passed on.
If your grandmother was Italian and did not naturalize or naturalized in the US before 1920, you may have a path to citizenship via a 1948 case or a 1948 cable act case.
If your grandmother did naturalize in the US after 1920 but after your mother was born, you may have a "minor" case so you will have to hope for a breakthrough minor case to get citizenship.
Apparently, most if not all the judgments denying recognition due to the minor issue (including Cassazione Ruling 17161/2023) have incorrectly cited Article 12. The actual wording seems to me to be much more favorable to minor issue cases than the apocryphal wording. Any thoughts about that?
Hello and thank you for your interesting question.
The main problem is the relation between the art 7 and art. 12.
The minor issues is not, in our opinion, the good interpretation because the art 7 clearly states the minor was not affected by the naturalization if born abroad on a ius soli country (like US).
This is not just our opinion but there was a clarification about that, on 1991, by the same Ministry (who clarified the real interpretation).
We may post a new video soon about that, for clarifying more.
Sincerely,
The Team
My GGF naturalized when my GF was a minor but my GGM didn’t naturalize until he was 26. Do you think that my GF would have lost his Italian citizenship when my GGF naturalized? Or would it require both parents having naturalized?
We need to better analyze your case for a clear answer.
Please reach us for booking a consultation call on your case and advising you how to proceed.
Contact: mbersanilaw.com/contatti
Sincerely,
The Team
I have a 1948 case. If my GGF naturalized while my GM was a minor, but my GGM did not until she was an adult how would that affect my case? Could my GGM just become my LIBRA?
Yes you might be eligible too - We need to better analyze your case for a clear answer.
Please reach us for booking a consultation call on your case and advising you how to proceed.
Contact: mbersanilaw.com/contatti
Sincerely,
The Team
What if citizenship was obtained before the child was born?
Hello, in that case the path might be closed.
Please reach us to book a consultation call on your case and advise you how to proceed.
Contact: mbersanilaw.com/contatti
Sincerely,
The Team
Hi , my great grandparents are from Sicily immigrated to New York City my great grandfather naturalized before my grandfather was born but my great grandmother doesn’t have a naturalization record it just says declaration. Can I obtain Italian citizenship by descent through my great grandmother due to the new gender equality laws ?
Good morning, it seems you may have a case.
Please reach us to book a consultation call on your case and advise you how to proceed.
Contact: mbersanilaw.com/contatti
Sincerely,
The Team