Why Buy A Mechanical Groupset in 2020?
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
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Ever since we started the season on mechanical groupsets I've been thinking about this VLOG. In the end I didn't think there was much point breaking down the differences one by one, as it has been to death on CZcams.
But what we thought might be interesting is a look at are there any examples of situations where a mechanical grouspet would be beneficial, is there still a place for this technology.
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BIKE: Devel Project A01
GROUPSET: Campagnolo
KITS: Rapha Custom
SERVICE & SUPPORT: Cycling Projects Racing - Sport
105 Mechanical is all we need, but my Dura Ace mechanical looks better at the coffee shop 😎
Byron Dixon the new 105 is an amazing groupset
Sorry, what brand would that be??
@@danielgentili1320 the biggest one
@@byrondixon4648 once used it for recreational riding - went back to campy very quickly... thanks for the update though.
150% truth but we get the DA for show
Mechanical and RIM brake!
I may have missed this in your video, but to me, a key point for those of us who are cycling hobbyists is longevity. I just bought a bike with Ultegra Di2 and I LOVE it, but I have no illusions that it's going to last a long time. My assumption is that at some point, I will have to replace all or part of the groupset. I've worked in tech for years, and I know that buttons and electronics fail randomly. (I added on Shimano's climbing buttons, and the upshift button failed after a week.) When components fail, there's no repairing - you have to replace them. I have no idea how long to expect this group to last, but if it cost $2k and lasts 5 years, then I've basically been "renting" it for $400 a year.
OTOH, my 30-year-old Campagnolo Record-equipped bike (which I upgraded several years ago to Ergopower shifting) needs new cables occasionally, and may eventually need new shift ratchets, but I fully expect it will outlive me.
I mean you can replace parts like buttons and whatnot, if you can find parts for them somewhere, it's just not a skill as many people have.
My 27 year old Pinarello has Campy Record Ergo and as you said... replace the cables and you're good to go. I did replace the chainrings, brake pads, chain recently, but I have no doubt this bike will be around after I'm dead. Campy sells all the little parts inside your ergo shifters and derailleurs (vintage and modern) so even modern campy will be around for decades to come. Electronic... I'd bet not.
As I see the bicycle as the perfect human powered machine (for sport and commuting), I just don´t want batteries on it.
mikrprod Why overcomplicate things, thats just another thing to charge for no benefit.
God give us such a nice finger we don't need a battery for so a simple step. A Elektronic shifting really trigger me on a bike and I find it a God idea to ban it from cycling race.
When racing good lucky going without any battery, if not groupset then got them in power meters and so on
For me it seems the elephant in the room with all "improvements" the bike industry has churned out over the last few years has been cost. I don't race, I enjoy riding, I cannot afford to replace damaged components quickly, furthermore I can maintain and install mechanical groupsets myself. I know I'm waffling but I've got bills to pay. Great video 👍
Shimano 105 or even Tiagra are way better and cheaper than groupsets used to be. There is no reason not have a great ride for far less than the top end stuff.
There is clearly a market for electrical groupsets, they don't make them if they don't sell.....
Today's stuff is brilliant, I thought I had made it to the shifting big time in the 80's with Simplex retro friction levers (shite really)...lol
I am a commuter cyclist, but still do over 4,000 miles a year. a Shimano 105 is perfect for me, the performance is 99% of the higher group sets, and the main difference is the weight. Since I am carrying between 2kg and 5kg in stuff for work a few hundred gram weight saving for a lot of money is not attractive to me.
I've been on mechanical for 43 years. I raced cat 1-2-pro on Super Record FRICTION! I've been on Campy Chorus 11spd mechanical for four full seasons and I've adjusted my rear derailleur maybe 10 times over those four seasons, and twice recently because I swapped cables and had to fine tune. So in my world (of averaging 16,000km per year) I'd say mechanical adjustments are almost non-existent. And I don't have to worry about charging anything but my head unit (and lights). I do recall a team mate having Mavic Zap back in the day and fondly recall him bragging about how good it was... until we raced in a hilly, rainy race and he shorted out in 53X14 approaching a small ring climb. Buh-bye~ turned me of electronic shifting for life.
I went from Ultegra Di2. I thought that was amazing and it is.
Now have mechanical Dura-ace. The shifting is absolutely amazing.
Ditto
I went to electronic with my new road bike over a year ago. If I had it to do over again, I would have just stuck with mechanical. I fail to see the real advantages of electronic. My gravel bike has mechanical and I have no issues when I ride it and never wish I had electronic on it. To me, electronic is incredibly over rated and not worth the additional cost.
I know I replay to ur comment after 2y but where did u get your groupset?
It's quite therapeutic tuning a mechanical groupset......
100% agree with you Jonathan. Now that I’m not glueing tubulars anymore ... I need to get my zen workshop moments somehow 🙏🏼
@@ChrisMillerCycling thankfully I have my wife's bikes to do as well. Plenty of zen.
Easy answer: Mechanicals work, every time. And when they don't they can be adjusted into compliance, right there on the road. Once the rider gets used to the feel of the shifters, it comes down to muscle memory. This is especially relevant to those of us who grew up with friction shifters. Like my high school band director used to say -- don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong. Bikes were designed to provide simple, reliable transportation. Non-reliability and complexity are antithetical to cycling.
You think all cyclists think Indexing gears is easy ? I can tell you they don't. It's a majority of shop work because cyclists try and totally ruin the shifting
@@JaiJai-by4tp No doubt many cyclists muck up their indexing. That's why independent bike shops exist and why CZcams has so many "tutorials" on how to do it.
@rangersmith4652 You suggested mechanical works every time and it's just a roadside fiddle to correct it ,like its easy and infallible .It's not ,never has been .Each set has it positives and negatives with mechanical having alot more through the shop ,but with mechanical taking up 90+ % of the market its not better or worse thees just more out there
@@JaiJai-by4tp For a rider who's learned how to make adjustments, setting high and low limits, indexing, and b-screw setting are not difficult and take just a few minutes, even after replacing a cable. For these folks -- and I'm one of them -- my original post is valid.
@rangersmith4652 now that makes sense ,your talk8ng about a someone with a good knowledge of how a bike works ,that's a minority. your first post was like it was easy for all and mechanical was 100% everytime .
Neither was valid without the context you've added now .
i still use campagnolo 10 speed record on the same bianchi 928 lugged 2006 bike. never had to replace the gear cables nor brake. here is why when i come back from a ride. i always leave my chain on the small chain wheel and the 12 sprocket.so eliminating leaving them under tension. andthe shifts are always precise and quick. great content chris
I just discovered this channel and it's amazing, the quality of your content is 10/10, thanks!!!
Mechanical versus electronic regarding the tactile feel / shift style kind of reminds me of the manual gears versus automatic car. I drive a manual car (took me a while to find the right one last purchase as most are auto only now) as I simply like the feel and involvement of manually changing gears as I drive, the tactile nature is important to me. It’s not just the action of changing gears, but the mechanical feel as it slides between gears and the clutch re-engages. Deep, I know 😄
Chris, congrats, what amazing review. Very rational analysis passing the relevant points of the groupsets.
Here’s the story of “The Stabbing Incident” Chris alluded to... last night out training my gear cable snapped. As it was on its way out, some of the wires from my gear cable worked their way through my rubber hood and stabbed me in the finger! Good news is I put a new cable in and my finger will heal with time 😝
Cable snapping? Shimano groupset. #amirite ?
install problem without grease.
Sounds like a bloody friggin' nightmare mate. Worse things can happen while riding a bike though.
Hey. Great video, as always. I was very interested in this subject, as I had this exact decision to make when I was building my new bike last spring (Ultegra di2 or DA mechanical). After months of deliberations, I opted for the DA mechanical (and btw, I got rim brakes) for one main reason: aesthetics. I simply love the black glossy look and shapes. Besides, it works amazing. After putting ~6K km on the bike, I have no regrets.
Great video Chris. I use Record 12 mechanical. I love it, shifting, feel, value etc, all excellent imo. I think the only reason I would favor EPS is the fact it trims the front derailleur automatically. That can be a bummer when you forget you trimmed down off the top already! Not sure if you guys have experienced that at all, I am definitely getting better the more I ride it. That been said you boys probably don't bother with the 39! Best, Paul
I'm surprised that the weight issue was not mentioned. My Dura Ace mechanical is silky smooth and weighs less than its electronic counterpart (the batteries are really heavy).
I've got a 2004 Pinarello Dogma that started with 9 speed Record. Still have the same frame and fork but have upgraded things on it. In at 11 speed Chorus shifters, cassette and chain with an SRM power meter crank. I'm happy with my set up. I can't imagine spending so much on parts that work fine.
I just bought two new mechanical group sets. The Ultegra has all mysteries worked out. It is completely bulletproof and I can maintain it. Parts are available anywhere and have you seen that stupid battery pack placements in most bikes. All those wires....Not for me and I am a degreed Mechanical Engineer...
Shifting yourself is part of the art like shifting a manual Porsche. Is PDK more efficient, yes but shifting connects you directly to the machine, bike or car and stirs the soul! It is not all about the money. It is about the overall experience.
Hello great vid, loving the content. I've ridden both mechanical and electronic from Shimano and Campag. Both are great but once the novelty wears off and and your mates are no longer impressed they're pretty much the same . Honestly its the same action to shift both electro and mech with the same result.
If i was racing id want electronic for missed shift elimination. But, if you could trigger shifts using a thought control, integrated with a HUD design and built in mobile connectivity, satnav,music, radar and lets face it probably gaming, they might have a clear winner. Currently spending the majority of our gorgeous Home arrest /lockdown riding a frankenstein drop bar mechanical 29er on trail and roads since march last year and loving it . Hope you're all well and good wherever you are!
Excellent fact packed video. I really like the conversational style and honesty that accompanies the presentation. I have Campagnolo SR electronic and Shimano Ultegra mechanical on my Colnagos. I prefer mechanical as a senior rider because of the engagement one feels with the gears whereas electronic seems remote. Thanks for posting .
Exactly! Same here.
Chris, as always, your tech reviews are level-headed and practical. Another benefit of mechanical is they will last forever, if maintained properly. Electronic components will eventually just die, due to corrosion of circuits, microswitches, etc. Cheers!
Cheers for that William, really appreciate the fact you take the content in the right light. Chris.
We are plugged in enough. Keep it as simple on the bike as possible. In over 25 years of cycling, I have never broken a cable from use. One defect cable head came off once. Keep all cables greased.
I like the idea of electronic groupsets but the cost and worry about failure out on the road stop me considering it.
Maybe it’s a lot more reliable than I imagine but it’s still a lot of money against minor tinkering of the gears for mechanical.
Good video Chris 👍
What's the worst that can happen? It's just like breaking a cable on mechanical, you can still ride.
And the weight... Price and weight!
I ride a Campanology triple racing cira1996 and find the performance amazing. As I am no longer racing, I see no reason to change it. The only caveat is the cost of vintage parts, guess many other believe that new is no necessarily better.
Great vid.... I think Campagnolo Chorus is the absolute sweetspot...its beautiful.....
Mechanical has changed for the specs
I build all my personal bikes with Campy mech
Most often Chorus
I do prefer 11 spd over 12 but sourcing parts is more difficult now in this covid 19 period
As a racer Mech is more reliable and less margin for failure
Price is a consideration but not an absolute determinant
Really its a matter of functionality over price
Btw mums on this
Campy will be coming out with a gravel gruppo this fall
Id hope they'd reinvent the 11 speed silver grp but no such luck
I have campy chorus on my Tommasini tecno
So smooth and quiet
Super record eps on my pina f8
Really sweet but not as quiet as mech or smooth
The price gap is huge too
For the net gain of being lazy at a cost that could afford you an indoor trainer during the snow or fire smoke in my case
That's my 2 bits Chris
Great job quantifying the factors in the decision. Nicely done.
Thanks Rob, appreciate that comment. Chris.
Great video Chris. I recently bought a new bike and I chose Ultegra mechanical group set, as I had so much problems on my older bike which has Ultegra Di2 group set. I had to change the electrical cable three times in the last two years. Batteries and I don’t get along very well.
One just needs to review what happened in the Tour. At least two times I saw top riders having issues with their electronic shifting. Alaphilippe had a problem with his front derailleur, had to swap bikes back and forth. Not saying he was going to win the stage, but maybe a consideration. Unfortunately can't compare to mechanical since all teams are electronic now. I'll take a well maintained mechanical set over electronic any day. Same can be said for calipers vs. disc on road bikes. Average tire changes in the Tour with disc wheels at least 5 seconds longer than rim brake wheels. Newer isn't always better, my 10 year old SRAM Force equipped road bike never has issues on group rides, but buddies with newer electronic groupsets seem to have the occasional hiccup. Heck, my 30 year old 105 components still perform flawlessly, the hubs spin forever and shifting still perfect.
My neighbour gave me his 40 year old bike that had been sitting in his shed for 40 years. New tyres, tubes, brake pads, a good service and clean up - just like new.
A lot of pros favour mechanical on their own non racing bikes. Can't get that same feel from electronic, just like stick and auto.
My mechanical Shimano Ultegra R8000 is doing me just FINE 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Yes mine is 3000+ miles old and still going strong
I have ridden Campag mechanical and nowadays EPS. I will not go back to mechanical groupsets. I shift exact every time and this is just a great feeling! Electric shifting was a WOW factor for my first time on electric groupset while disc brakes were not. I never had any issues with electric groupsets. .
Great video Chris...I really enjoyed this...I am a weeknight/weekend warrior...for me it depends on cost - for now I will be staying with mechanical. Maybe one day I can move up to electronic.....keep up the great work - here in Canada I am envious of your weather...LOL
Thanks Kennedy. There is certainly something to be said for just knowing how your bike works and how to maintain it, which is something mech will always have.
Handy and informative. Cheers. I have an r7000 groupset and was wondering why on earth I'd spend 5 times the price for r8100
I rode my first electrical shifting bike this past weekend...It is cool dont get me wrong but I like the Feel of the shift of the mechanical. It makes me feel more personal with the bike...Crazy but true....Bye for now.
Great well considered review Chris, as usual. One comment, from the older generation frames and riders. Mechanical is still the best choice for aesthetics and dare I say performance / cost for those ‘retro projects’. I’m about to upgrade my lovely Tommasini from Campag 10 to 12 :)
Totally agree with you David, the more ‘retro’ the frame, the more it suits the aesthetic of a mech group. It’s interesting what you are saying about older riders preferring mech though as I was having a chat with a few bike industry people over the weekend and they were all adamant the market for electronic is not age dependent. in fact much of their data shows the older the rider, the more the combination of more disposable income and less time (to fix problems) lends them to electronic groups. Thanks for the comment as always mate.
@@ChrisMillerCycling very interesting 'the older the rider, the more the combination.... less time to fix' - effect. I am a bit of a 'bike tinkerer' love fiddling/tweaking my bike and I can now see that may have been a 'subconscious' influence on my choice, this time
I have a DI2 Dura-Ace on one of my road bikes because I was curious about electronic shifting. I like it well enough, but I run 105 11sp on another of my regularly used bikes, and when it comes time to upgrade it, I'll probably just go with a mechanical Ultegra set. I am planning on upgrading an older 10sp Dura Ace TT bike tho' to electronic shifting so I can shift without having to reach back for the bar end.
Great overview, but for me the worst fatal flaw I've had was a snapped cable in the hilly middle of nowhere. Went to Di2 after that and haven't had an issue in 6 years, but still enjoy mechanical on my other bike. I think for racing your point makes sense - a dead battery or electronics on the start line or after a crash would suck.
Daniel Young that’s a good point, I think most of the time if you have an issue with electronic gearing it is due to user error, such as not charging the battery. Issues with mechanical can be more unexpected but often a straight forward fix
I am a sprinter and a racer, I have never snapped a cable. Like electronic batteries will let you down if not charged and cables will snap if not replaced.
Snapping/fraying cables is a known issue with the way Shimano mechanical shifters are designed, not an inherent issue with all mechanical groupsets
@@AndrewSmith-cd5zf In nearly 50 years of riding and racing, I've broken ONE cable. Front derailleur. Purely from lack of maintenance.
Ive never snapped a cable or replaced one in over 50 years. How the hell do you do that? Leave the bike out in the rain till everything goes rusty?
Out in the middle of no where with electronic? I dont believe this. I wont use aluminium let alone carbon. Try finding someone who can weld aluminium or carbon. Steel is real.
For me the middle of no where is the Oodnadatta track in outback Australia.
Got Dura Ace Mech cause I got a great deal and I love it but You are totally right about Campagnolo 12 speeds, more carbon parts, and legendary brand., will be next build!
Hey Al, I’ve never actually ridden DA mech, but what I have heard it is amazing. I will be very interested to see when Shimano go 12s, will they launch a mech version?
Very informative and clearly presented. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Your camera autofocus is incredible
I feel like I'm in your backyard
If I was Campagnolo I would make sure that you have reviewed the new Ekar gravel groupset and a video is ready to be published on release day :)
Internal cable routing would be a major fiddly area for amateur mechanics compared to electronic, I reckon. But at the same time, have you watched the pro build videos with Di2? Fitting them inside the integrated stem and headsets on these gorgeous new bikes looks like a nightmare!!
I have just added a Di2 XT rear derailleur to my dirty Levo. Insanely slick...
I think the question really is, WHERE can you buy a group set in 2020??
Haha!! Yeh they are a endangered species that’s for sure
Yeah. I had a customer come in with one of those first-generation Red groupsets, with the titanium front derailleur cage. She had worn a pinhole right through the inner plate and now the chain was getting stuck on it. No problem, I said. Replace it with a steel-caged Force unit like the pro teams did ten years ago. Right. The only 10-speed SRAM still makes is Apex, they're out of stock, and we don't know if they're ever coming back.
I like to be able to work on my bike, and I don’t think batteries and bicycles go together at all. I also prefer having precise control over when I shift and how hard, so mechanical is the way for me. I like the idea of pulling my bike out of the garage 20 years from now, pumping up the tires, and going riding.
Hey John, cheers for the comment. I hope it came across in the video, but for a rider like yourself a mechanical group set is absolutely perfect. It’s interesting though, living in the inner city, the amount of people who live in apartments or don’t have the garage option ... it’s something where the set it and forget it of electric really is an advantage. Thanks again for the comment John
Living that traditional life, mechanical groupset prices are only going to drop, although the lack of investment means there will not be any more technological advantages but with the latest shimano ultegra I don't think there is any more room for improvement
I like them both. If performance is the sole goal, electronic all the way. Electronic is also very low maintenance once it's set up. On the other hand, mechanical works very well and is basically foolproof if you know how to tighten a bolt. Also, there's a beautiful simplicity to the spring-driven, cable-actuated mechanisms on a mechanical groupset. You may care about those things, you may not.
I learned to ride using Huret Luxe Touring derailleurs, so I learned about bad shifting early. My current main ride has SRAM Force 10-speed. My last botched shift was about 5 years ago. When high trim stops working, that means it's time to replace the cables.
On the other hand, if someone offered me a new E-tap kit tomorrow, I'd have hard time saying no.
Objective and based on actual race experience. Thank you for the great content!
P.s. Thank you for not doing the youtube thing of best groupset, this or that.
the video looks amazing, the bokeh is just on point ? what camera and lense please ?
Great video. Btw: what is the black bartape on your bike? It looks very nice.
my CX bikes are on mechanical sram Force 1x and the even more controversial mechanical disc brakes. fleet maintenance and ease of triage, replacement and adjustment are my driving factors.
The difference between a vw golf with a manual gearbox or one of the fancy double clutch auto things.
Sure the double clutch sounds cool and shifts pretty quick, but is it as satisfying as mastering the heel and toe techniques and making that manual hum?
One requires more skill and mechanical empathy and is relatively cheap to repair, the other just shifts when required, but when it goes wrong...... which arm you gonna give up?
manual 4 lyfe
Kinda depends on the application. Rowing through a manual and refining your heel-toe technique are nice. Given future economies of scale, I'm not sure a manual clutch replacement is going to be that much cheaper than servicing a double clutch automatic. But I could be wrong.
But if you're trying to get around the track with the fastest time, a manual isn't the thing for you.
And then there are the REALLY old guys who think, "Oh, you're using synchronizers? Oh, well when I was young, a proficient driver was a master at double-clutching. You whipper-snappers with your new-fangled synchronized gears lose the true nature of manual shifting."
Same old thing; nothing new under the sun.
Wait until infinite gear ratio transmissions are viable, "When WE were young, we had a LIMITED number of gears, where we had to DECIDE which gear to be in!"
Then again, electric cars are killing shifting anyway, so who cares!
@@dudeonbike800 Totally. Sometimes there is more satisfaction in mastering a skill, regardless of how slow it may be. Technology is coming, sometimes good, sometimes a backward step.
But you gotta feel for the likes of Cecilie Uttrup Ludwig, apparently let down by Di2. (Not saying that she wouldn't have had a problem with mechanical, but right now I bet she's not too chuffed)
I think electronic has a place in time trial and tri bikes. When you are on your hoods/bars because of a crap climb coming up....losing easy access to shifting is a PITA. The satellite shifter (which is enabled by electronic shifting) fixes that problem cleanly and simply.
I'll Ride Mechanical for as long as possible for one simple reason. As a Crit Racer, I've never won a race because of Electric Shifting, but I sure as hell have lost a race due to it.
I have had Di2 for 3 years now. Flawless. Never let me down, Works like a dream. Pricey yes I get that ...but as a cycling enthusiast I can save money elsewhere. I dont run a car. My bikes are my transport. I have mechanical Ultegra on my winter and commuting bikes. After Di2 its like going back to the dark ages, Yes the difference is that pronounced,It is such a joy to get back on my quick bike with Di2.Just sayin...
Pretty much agree with you mate. So can I ask then, in that $2000 price range would you recommend Ultegra Di2 or DA mech?
Chris Miller Cycling They are both the same price so for that reason it would have to be ultegra Di2. Dura ace Di2 is a bit pricey. I have Ultegra Di2 as I say flawless for 3 years now. Dura ace mechanical is lighter than Ultegra Di2. For me no problem as I am not a lightweight climber more of a rouleur sprinter. Best bang for buck Ultegra Di2.just like to add depends how often you ride. I ride everyday so the no maintenance of Di2 suits me. If riding occasionally mechanical may suit.
You say the Di2 is the faster. Just wondering someone says the batteries are heavy. Do you notice that when riding? Thanks, im thinking of getting a Di2.
@@ChrisMillerCycling no comparison… ultegra DI2….. have not had a missed gear in 5 years….
@@waterdeptworker maybe years ago the batteries were heavy. Not now…. A slim one that fits in the sea tube….I think they are about the same weight…
Great video discussing the teams decision for mechanical groupsets and very much agree with your points about field serviceability, "fatal flaws" and repair costs when something inevitably breaks.
Can you elaborate on your comment @ 9:53 ?
comparing the $2,562 (2209g) Ultegra Di2 groupset to the $2,294 (1973g) Dura-ace mechanical
"why would you buy a mechanical groupset in the shimano world, well you wouldn't"
After the rest of the video explaining why you might choose mechanical for various reasons, wouldn't it be better to compare the $1,624 (2272g) mechanical Ultegra groupset looking at a saving of $938?
Or if you are wanting to dive into the carbon/titanium/drillium weight savings of Dura-ace, then perhaps a better comparison would be $2,294 (1973g) mechanical Dura-ace to $3,724 (1911g) Dura-ace Di2?
Hey Simon, cheers for the comment and for taking the video in the right light. Ok yeh i probably didn’t explain that comment in the video that well, I should have said in that circumstance “I would choose electronic”. That really is based on the riding I do and the fact I place performance that little higher then reliability. The comment was also a little flippant, I should have made it sound like a tough choice then I made out. Thanks again for the comment mate. Chris.
Thanks for the alternative viewpoints re mechanical. as you say why? Buttons are everywhere, Nintendo/Xbox/Playstation etc is the training ground, cars have tiptronic style gear changing. gone are the days of car/truck mechanical sympathy and double shuffling the clutch to slip into non-syncro first gear (showing my age) we just rely on an automatic gearbox, press a button or tap a shift lever. Anyway I think bike mechanical gets a bad rap - once adjusted no real need for adjustment or battery charging until the cable starts to fail - typically at least about 6,000Km of riding. At the end of the day ride what makes you happy.Cheers
Thanks for the comment Greg, totally agree with regards getting a bad wrap. At the end of the day your mechanical group works as well as you maintain it. On a slightly different point, I wonder if there is any coincidence in the fact the guys are all getting far more kms out of their mechanical chains and cassette then they did with the electric groups last year. I wonder if we shift differently or maybe even less. I don’t know, just something I have heard from the guys.
@@ChrisMillerCycling Interesting re wear rates of of chains/cassette/rings. Anecdotally I had found, compared with the bunch, that find my mileage (Dura-Ace mechanical) for chains etc is better/longer. I had just put it down to puny power output combined with regular clean and lube. However I think you are onto something, with electronic the servo motor just smashes the chain the gears. With mechanical you can feel the pressure and kinda ease it across more in sympathy with the ramps on the gears - particularly with the chain climbing up from the little ring onto the big ring. Probably the other thing forgotten about with mechanical cables is that it is advantageous to park the bike in front little ring and smallest cog on the cassette (shimano). Cables are then under minimal tension when the bike is parked @ coffee or parked overnight or longer, less strain on cable = longer cable life. Cheers
Excellent explaining the differences and how they perform. Only spot of bother is saying mechanical is heavier than electronic. That is not true.
It is sad SRAM won't be moving ahead with mechanical. I guess I'll be heading back to Shimano in a couple years.
Indeed, the weight of the battery appears to have been overlooked
i used mechanical for over 25 years in 2014 a DA9000 used it not a single problem then the DA9100 came out and i got it it never stopped giving me problems the bike was most of the time in the shop and the feixes that didn't fix it were expensive i was not a happy rider i was stressed and when riding i was thinking all the time if this is the gerar change that will fail so i got a mechanical DA9100 and never looked back i work with diagnistic tools in the marine and oil industry and the tools for electronic shimano groups is a toy the tecnology is not fully developed and when i shift with my mech DA9100 it feels really good i sometimes think why the hell i tried the electronic after all ......... i know , because of marketing hahahahaha i learned the lesson the hard and expensive way so from that point i really analyze and do my own research before i buy any bike parts only if i had searched online for di2 problems i didn't untill i had them and the amount of problems that it has is way over the few advantages it has if any.
Late to the party, but I ride a Specialized Tarmac with a Tiagra R4720 (hyd discs) groupset and it’s bloody good. Also ride a Ridley Noah 24T with rim brakes (105 R7000) and that groupset is all you need imho. Do prefer rim brakes over discs though. Kinda feel the marketing got to me 🙈🤣.
I ride Di2 and mechanical (Sram Red). Under pressure with Sram, moving to the big chain ring is hit and miss. It works most the time, but its totally possible to bodge it and mash the change. It will not happen every change, but be prepared for it to happen when you dont expect it. Di2 never misses. Its a bit like driving a manual v automatic car.
Rear mech changes are more than fine.
That’s interesting you mention the front chainring, I would say it is the complete opposite with Campy. The front chain ring shift is incredibly fast and reliable, it’s the rear where electronic beats it.
@@ChrisMillerCycling Hate to say it, but electronic - when it works- is better. Pity is so expensive to buy. Crashes become expensive. Guess thats why you have race insurance. Cycling is not cheap 😂
Well that's a well known fact that Sram front derailleurs are butter, they always were. There's easy solution to it - replace it with Ultegra one. Works perfect.
@@swespeedy1 Thanks. Maybe I will try it in the short term, but to be honest I am saving for a DI2 gear set to replace the Sram.
My mechanical 105 and eTap shift as well as each other but mechanical really does have its fatal flaws and it's usually down to cables. At the moment my 105 won't shift into top gear and no adjustment seems to fix it. I've also had the cable fray in the shifter a couple of times.
In the 2020 road cycling world championships in Imola , in the women's road race, after the last ascent in the low gears using the small chain ring, one of the riders couldn't shift up to the big ring after reaching the top of the ascent, so she had to ride the last few kilometers descent and flat to the finish line on the small ring. She was with a group ending in places four to eight. Because of the gear problems she couldn't follow this group, but she kept fighting and kept the chasers behind her and ended in eight place. With a mechanical groupset she probably could have been competing for a better place.
The rear shift cable on mechanical Shimano will fray and eventually break only after about 2000-3000 kms. Much longer if you don't live in a city with stop lights every 400m or if you don't down shift when slowing down.
My steel road bike has DA-7800 shifters on it. I built it in 2010 as a restoration. It is still on the original cables and still shifts like butter. You’d swear the cables were brand new. This was the pinnacle of Shimano mechanical shifters. In fact, the current generation Tiagra shifters are essentially DA-7800 levers with some internal changes for the cable routing
I prefere rim. I just love to tinker. What do your all think about disk brakes? Will the team ever use them?
Hey Marvin, thanks for the comment. Honestly as far as all groupsets go at an amateur level, it’s what makes the most financial sense at the time. moving to disc would bring with it a whole host of additional set up expenses, so we would have to look at those before doing anything. Like I mentioned in the last Vlog, things like wheel changes and spares are another level of stress.
I just don’t see people having problems with mechanical ultegra. Being a sprinter I can push big numbers for short periods so the extra durability of Ultegra is great. I won’t be winning any hill top finishes so lightweight Dura Ace is not a requirement. If you watch Hambini you will find that Shimano is the best engineering with Campy right up there with them, however there’s a reason why pro teams running SRAM are very few between and that’s because their engineering tolerances are very slack.
Because I have too many bikes to worry about charging batteries ;) !
Mechanical shifts faster, plus electric have no real advantage on one by system. My Mtb is now one-by when I'm racing CX I run one-by's as well. I will say the auto trim on front mech with Di2 is a delight. I've recently gone back to mechanical on my road bike DA shifters and Ultegra rear clutch mech to run 105 -11-34 cassette, it was just too much cost to do full Ultegra Di2 as the 6770 levers are kinda unrefined on the underside. Anyway the mechanical is great but I miss the Di2 trim.
I've ridden all three, my opinion is Campy has the best ergo and front trim is outstanding. My main turn off is thumb paddle can be hard to reach from drops if you don't run your hoods flat, plus lack inter-compatibility and excessive pricing is biggest limiter. SRAM shifts the fastest and most positive/intuitive but wears in the fastest. I'd had mores catastrophic failures and warranties with SRAM then any other brand. Shimano still king on cassettes and shift ramps and stuff and something like an Ultegra Di2 or 105 mechanical are just hard to beat on valve to performance return.
BTW +1 for classic round drop bars.
Hi from Canada. Two issues in elec. vs. mech. groupsets that I haven,t seen discussed in any of the vids yet - fragility and longevity. I have witnessed complete failures in elec. groups from minor bumps or falls (3 incidents, 2 brands). This has not instilled much confidence for me. As for longevity, I can be pretty sure a mech. group will still be fully functional 20, even 30 years from now with simple upkeep. Electronics, especially in todays market tend to be short life, throw away items. In 10 years time you probably won,t be able to source simple maint. parts for today's groupsets. I ride Campy mechanical because I haven,t any clear benefit to switching.
Hey Steve, can’t disagree with anything you have said. Though like I have mentioned in a few comments, it is worth trying electronic even for the hardened mechanical users amongst us. There is a genuine difference in the style of shift and it could be a case of not loving it until you try it. Having raced on both electric and mechanical now, I can genuinely say both have their pros and cons ... hopefully that came across in the video.
Di2 really improves Shimano mechanical. EPS to me is silly. Why? Because with Chorus you can change up to five gears instantly, more than you need, 3 I think is ideal. Only Campy gives you that option. So 105 is great, then if you want to upgrade buy Chorus.
Have you ridden EPS? I had a brief experience with it in 2017, and I have to say it’s still the fastest and crispist shifting I have ever experienced
@@ChrisMillerCycling Only on a test bike. Whilst I loved it I just prefer the flexibility of mechanical. I love the fact I can press the button or swing the lever at any pace so can change instantly or not. I just changed to 12 speed on my new bike and that is even crisper than ever ..... although my 11 speed on the previous bike was 10 years old so might have been less sprightly than new. Basically, I still believe the best groupset is Chorus 12, all the flexibility, the best shifting and not eye wateringly pricey. Obviously, 105 is the best budget choice though. Those that say DA is the best are kidding themselves, you can't co-ordinate rear and front mechs, you only have one up change, the throw of the lever is massive. It's 10 years out of date.
A Shimano DuraAce mechanical groupset is -$2K less than Di2 though I would love to ditch the cables!
I love my Campagnolo mechanical groupset 🙌
I ride a Seven Axiom. To me it just seems wrong to put an electronic group set on it. Yes, I drive a car with a manual transmission. Sometimes it about the satisfaction of a well executed shift. Yes, Seven is making frames specifically with electronic group sets in mind. A lot of their bikes are built up with SRAM or Shimano group sets. Since Shimano has phased out its Ultegra and Dura Ace mechanical group sets, I see SEVEN making a lot of bikes set up for electronic group sets. But for me, I don't have part of my fingers on my left hand. SEVEN worked with me and came up with a down tube shifter on the left side. Campy still made one at the time. So they both made a customer for life out of me. Will Shimano work with me and my hand? I doubt it. SEVEN will custom make a frame that is optimized for mechanical group sets. I like my cablesvrouted outside the frame so that they are easier to work on. No problem. Mine has that. Is it aerodynamic? Probably not. I think that was part of the push towards electronic group sets. Cables don't work as well and are harder to maintain when they run through the frame. For that reason, if you want that clean aero look, maybe an electronic group set is the better choice, especially if you are spending thousands on aero wheels, stems, and a carbon aero frame.
Problem with mechanical groupset is that in 2020 we can basicly only find disc brake bike. Personnaly i think the mechanical shifter for disc bike are horrible. For rim brake bike i would be all in mechanical, so much cheaper and its very efficient.
Those crispy clicks shifters DA 9000, instead of hingschhhhpff.
Thanks a lot !!!
it's pretty simple because the new Campagnolo Ekar is awesome.
I see Chris likes super shallow depth of field in his videos.
Maybe since the prices of E shifters and components have barely dropped in 5 years so, there’s is that . I guess most folks have to wait 10 according to Sram and Shimano
Why buy a mechanical groupset in 2020? Because some of us go on cross country rides, which don't lend themselves to constantly recharging batteries.
For a non-racing plodder like me, mechanical Ultegra is my realistic "grail" groupset.
Because it is 3-4-5 times cheaper than electronic groupset of same weight. Sram Rival AXS costs 1460 euros thats over 2000 euros shipped to my country with custom charges. For that amount of money I can buy like 4-5 mechanical groupsets.
was on ultegra mechanical and it shifted so nice and quickly. then i tried sram red. its night and day man. dont kid yourself that its not the fastest, quietest, self correcting system
I do not know if anyone else feels this way but in my opinion a bike with a battery is an ebike at least to the extent that it is no longer driven by just muscle but by a combination of muscle and electrical energy. Sure, the battery only provides a small amount of the energy required but it is still electrical energy and you have to keep charging the battery up to provide the power to change gears. A cable bike is always there and does not need stored power from an outside source. If you ride a cable bike to the top of a mountain it is pure human physical effort.
Hey Tim, it’s funny you mention that mindset. I can remember ranting to someone in a very similar tone pre my first move to electric gears. It was at the same time the controversy around motors in bikes was at fever pitch, something that never sat well with me ... here we were complaining people had motors, but we didn’t have an issue the same bikes had a battery in it ... yes to change gears, but still. Having said all that mate, where do we draw the line? I run a bike computer and a power meter ... electronic devices that in a way assist my performance. Cheers for the comment though Tim, glad someone brought that up.
@@ChrisMillerCycling It is just my personal feeling. It is a bit like motor car racing. I like the old cars where you had mechanical shifting. The new cars just have panels where you push buttons. But a lot of people love the new racing cars. I admit I drive an automatic car and ride an ebike.
Will you do a review on the new Maxxis High Road SL?
Lighter, cheaper, more reliable, less to go wrong, no need for recharging mechs. Not a bad option
Hard to argue with you Richard.
Hi . Want to get new ribble endurance sl for mechanical ultegra 2,299 pounds for di2 2,999 ,im not racing ,don't do any competitions just want this to be my weekend summer bike .don't know which one I should go for ? . Thinking about mechanical and power meter 4iii this will get me to 2,720 still some money in my pocket but not sure if I want power meter or di2 ,which one I should go for??? . Thank in advance
Do you know which one of your guys was up in Brisbane racing the lifecycle classic out at lowood.
Hey Jack, That would have been Ben Carman.
Will never forgive Sram for abandoning Red mechanical just when it got decent...
So liiiiiiiight
@@ChrisMillerCycling what do you think of the downshifter ergonomics/placement on campy for someone with small hands?
For example 2500 ULTEGRA 11s Di2 vs 2300 DURA ACE 11s mechanical I'll take the Dura Ace. The material that DURA ACE is using is different than the Ultegra. Dura Ace is more stiffer and more responsive = better power transfer. The shifting on electronic will not help to save you some watts. That my 2 cents. Cheers.
I moved to Di2 last year, and I don't think I'll go back.
Can you jam a signal used for shifting? That could be a problem if someone did that.
etap AXS is encrypted to prevent that
I would like to point out that actually down tube shifters offer a serious weight saving and better performance all round.
im 100% sure i can remedy any problem without looking for an electrical socket.😂
I'm happy with my new Ultegra R8000. KISS principal for me. It's still a long way from the downtube shifters I had back in the 80s
HAHA, You know I was threatening to the team the other day 2021 would be downtube. Well, we were electronic in 2019, mech in 2020, I think it’s the natural progression 😂😂
@@ChrisMillerCycling 12 speed too, 6 on the block x 2 at the front👍
I remember getting my first bike with Campagnolo Mirage brifters. I was like a kid in a candy store. I loved that authoritative clunk sound that came with each gear shift. That was my introduction to bar shifters. It was a world of improvement to downtube friction shifters. I just bought a retro-modern Battaglin Italian Steel frame bike (NOS) with Campy Chorus 12 on it. It's all I need in a Gruppo. It shifts even better than my Mirage bike. I will have this bike for the next thirty years and I am sure it will still work flawlessly.
It’s all about cost. In particular don’t underestimate the price of a DIY build, the sundry items make the amount skyrocket.
The fatal flaw issue is a non starter in my 9 year Di2 experience. Perhaps a couple of times of run out of charge due to total neglect as the battery life is ridiculously good.
Also the shifters,by not requiring the mechanical components are also far nicer in the hand vs their mechanical cousins.
I would never go back to mechanical shifting... never had any issues with electronic shifting and it just shifts perfect and damn fast, even with full pressure on.
campag TOUR WIN :)
It’s a con. The bike industry has to come up with new equipment then convince us all that we ‘need’ it because it is better. Then they can charge a huge mark up for a premium product. It’s not, it’s just different. Does it cost much more to manufacture? No. It’s all about profit margins. They could make it more affordable if they wanted to. Personally I will wait until the price drops, but with mechanical being so good I am in no rush. Mechanical is a little bit more fiddly but once you have it set up I find that the gear change is crisp and smooth. The only time you clunk a gear change is if you’re being particularly aggressive (maybe racing or hill climbing) if you think about how you are using your gears, selecting the correct gear before you make an effort it’s really not an issue.
As you can guess I can not justify spending 1000s on my next bike. If you have that spare cash then good luck to you. It seems to be something that will always be a bit elitist and not for the everyday Joe, by which I mean you will generally only see it on high end bikes. It would be nice if it could filter down to more affordable bikes, then it would have more mass appeal and therefore sell more (which leads to it being produced in greater numbers and the economy of scale will bring the price down). Maybe I’m just dreaming in this regard.
True. Current cycling marketing is about excellent solutions for problems that never existed.
TurneyUK Planned obsolescence is very much a part of the cycling industry under the thin veil of “performance.” They like to use obscure efficiencies in aero percentages and watts recovered. They’ve learned a lot from the fashion industry. Introduce new styles every once in awhile and the insecure will follow.
As for prices, does it really cost as much to make a bicycle as some of the most technologically advanced sports motorcycles?
Funny how Nike makes new advancements in shoes every year but no one has yet to beat Usain Bolt’s time.
“Elitist” huh 🤔