How To Lose Money: My Fermentation Keg Problem Just Got Worse
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- čas přidán 11. 10. 2023
- Many months ago I published a video about a problem I was having with a new keg fermentation vessel that I designed. It was dangerous and needed to be redesigned. This is the story of that process, including all of the hurdles bumps along the road. #fermentation #brewing
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As a mechanical engineer who has been on the wrong side of vessel failures on a handful of occasions (both pressure and vacuum), no amount of modelling or spreadsheets give you the peace of mind like physical testing, over engineering, and under rating. You did this the right way. Now you can sleep well at night knowing that even in a situation where there is a manufacturing defect in the tank, there is still no way anyone could hurt themselves.
Thanks. And agreed!
I would put a J-tube with a 40 or 50 psi line relief. We used to test N20, and Co2 tankers with pressurized water. 350+ psi!! I am not a Engineer, but I built, and repaired pressure/ vacuum vessels for 13yrs. Mostly Cryo tankers. A line relief is cheap, and easy insurance!!
Mad respect to everyone at Clawhammer Supply. Our brewing partners' safety is paramount. Keep doing good things!
As a biochemical janitor (homebrewer) I appreciate all the hard work and testing you put in to deliver a safe and effective product
Your transparency on your struggles throughout the development of this is really commendable. You’ve demonstrated great integrity and concern for your customers.
The world needs more people like you guys.
You gave me ptsd from my engineering days. That said, "A test is worth a thousand expert opinions". Thanks for being transparent.
I always carbonate my beer at 500 psi. Thanks for making sure we are safe. ☺
Hey man when you store it at 99c and you gotta have it carbonated in 5 seconds, you gotta do what you gotta do.
Incredible testament to quality and safety Kyle. Ignore the negative commentaries. If the exposed liability is too great, it isn't worth the risk. Amazing results on your testing. What you subjected those kegs to would be clear negligence anyhow. Very well done and well executed. Cheers.
Love that you are making this whole process public. Impressive!
Hoping a supplier in Australia picks them up, great job everyone
Really appreciate all the work you have done because it brings issues to attention that apply to more than your product itself. Brewers work with brewing specific pressure vessels all the time, and most of us also interact with other pressure vessels in our day to day lives. The respect we should have for them always bears repeating.
At the beginning I was wonder why you wanted the 60 psi rating? But you addressed it at the end!
The manufacturer of the kegs owned most of the liability from the beginning.
But since the first video I thought you were doing great by being concerned for safety. 👏👏👏
Kudos for thinking about safety first! I’ve got a prototype and love it, and I’m glad you guys have figured out how to improve upon it and make it even safer for us a homebrewers, cheers 🍻
Making things is hard, i love when a company is so transparent about the process.
this is why i love this company and will continue to support them
Thanks for sharing the journey Kyle! Attention to the finer details is one of many reasons I love what you guys do and I’m stoked to try this out someday
Thanks! And, absolutely!
It's actually a really good idea to have done the physical testing, and to ramp up the pressure to many multiple times than what the pressure vessel will be actually used at. It may have been maddening, but you're ensuring your customer's safety, are ensuring your reputation, and reduced your liability.
Good on you for doing it!
No worries here, I'm patiently awaiting my day 1 pre-order and I'm appreciative of all of the thought and effort that has gone into the design and quality of this product. Cheers! I'm looking forward to many years of awesome beers from my Clawhammer Keg Fermenters!
Well done for keeping your sanity whilst caring about your products and customers..
Regarding some negative comments....
If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?
The engineer side of me loved this video. The margin you guys are putting into this is the way all things should be designed and thats not always the case. It is interesting that the FEA suggested such a low failure pressure but models should never be completely relied upon in lieu of real world testing. That's exactly why the aircraft engine parts I work on go through thousands of hours and cycles of tests in extreme environments. So kudos to you guys for doing it the right way!
I'm sure these kegs will change how people brew homebrew. They are an incredible idea that's really worth investing in. Thanks for taking safety seriously and not just trying to make a quick buck!
Internet bro hug man, what a journey. Tons of respect for what you're doing. My mom loved the video too, haha
I shared with my mom. She is confused as to why. I am sorry my grandmother isn't alive otherwise she too would have to have it started with her. 😜 i appreciate the kindness and openness of this endeavor. It really shows a company that cares. Love your with so far. 🤘🏿🤘🤘🏿🤘 Rok out with your🐔 out.
Lol.
This is integrity. Hats off to you.
love the transparency and conscientious sincerity here, wish more companies operated this way. It's how things used to be and sadly becoming a rare thing.
Kyle…. Your personal integrity is without peer. Well done and I wish I could get my hands on a couple.
I am newer to homebrewing (about 1 year in) and while I do not own any Clawhammer products, I have to say your professionalism with handling this particular issue as a small business is incredibly impressive. I remember watching your original video of the projectile top from the keg and your response to making sure that was addressed and now this additional testing.. I mean it's really great that companies like Clawhammer Supply are willing to get to endless lengths to ensure safety for customers. You may just gain a new customer here soon as I transition away from my stove top kettle and get an electric system! Kudos to you guys once again.
I don't even know your name but I dig your energy and all you've done for the homebrew community. I've watched your videos for years now.
Thanks for doing the right thing here
Bravo! Mechanical engineer here who also enjoys TIG welding and modifying kegs as pressure fermenting vessels with tri clamps and what not under my own discretion. Wish nothing but the best for you guys
Thanks Kyle - it's now on order. I appreciate Clawhammer's support to the homebrewer community!
Way to do your due diligence working out this problem! This kind of work enhances customer confidence in your products!
Great job guys! I applaud your drive to release a safe product.
God Bless you guys.
So honest.
Ethical.
Caring.
Trustworthy.
All around bad asses.
I will continue to buy from and support Claw Hammer Supply.
I was so happy to see this video and mad respect for you guys being cautious, and doing thorough testing. Safety first and you guys are doing all the right things.
I always thought it was funny when manufacturers list a very high PSI rating, knowing no one would ever utilize that.
40PSI maximum rating is way more than enough for every application.
Kudos to the great video and thinking of everyone's we being! ❤
Thanks for sharing the testing with us, that was really interesting!
It’s the correct call, I’ve never gone higher than 30psi in my kegs rated to 120, and competitor products are mostly rated much lower (often 15psi).
That 700 psi keg is impressive. Thanks for doing that.
Love the integrity and transparency of this process. Great work.
It's awesome to see the level of testing you went through. Unintended use but to counter your "40 PSI" limitation, if I were to use this to make prosecco via charmat method it calls for ~80psi to hold for several weeks to months. It's not beer sure, but I do see this tank being useful for charmat method. I use plenty of beer targeted equipment for other fermentations, its always good to have multi use equipment. 😉
I love this SOOOOO much! I've been deliciously waiting for my keg, and I knew y'all wouldn't release something that was dangerous. As an engineer, this is the best way to verify safety .... Thank you for doing the needful! You guys rock!
Guys this is awesome!!!!!
You guys are clearly super dedicated to your customers!!
I’d totally be buying your guys stuff if the Aussie exchange rate wasn’t so trash😭😭😝😝
I love the candid approach to discussing challenges of launching this product. Great job
Thanks for the thorough explanation and even more thorough testing! I have no problem waiting for the kegs I ordered while knowing that you're ensuring that your groundbreaking design is safe and awesome. Now hopefully that this challenge has mostly passed, that frees you up for more excellent videos and development of other top-notch products. Cheers!
(edit: it's cool to see how many of your fans and customers are engineers; I'm a mech-eng as well!)
Thank you for the clarity in this video. Thank you for the diligence in your testing. Thank you for your honesty with your decisions.This is the gold standard that any company should strive to meet when communicating to their customer base.
As someone who hopes to use your products some day, I really appreciate the effort and care you have put into these projects.
Love these development videos and seeing all the thought, effort, and setbacks that go into new product development. If you’ve got time for one more test, how about 700 PSI IPA!
Good on you for going through your own testing. I'm a mechanical engineer and have done plenty of FEAs over the decades. All FEAs need to be correlated to real test data. They are not themselves proof of anything. Your "problem" is a great example of that.
FEAs are based upon assumptions, the type of analysis performed, the software used to perform it, and the knowledge of the analyst. Any one of those lacking can give you bad results.
Looking at your screenshots and your ballooned kegs tells me that a nonlinear analysis was required which is out of the range of most engineers to do due to much higher cost of the nonlinear software and a lack of understanding when a nonlinear analysis is required over a linear one which is cheaper and more commonly performed.
Holy crap, Larry... You absolutely nailed it. Like, seriously, this was exactly the problem. Can we call you next time we run into an issue like this !?
@@ClawhammerSupply Haha. Thanks for the confirmation. Although I do still have access to the highest capabilities of several FEA software tools, I no longer do these sorts of things nowadays. I’d be a bit rusty at it honestly.
Awww, I can almost feel the hell you are going through. Though I most likely will not be able to get my hands on your products any time soon, big respect for your attitude and endurance in this journey. Thanks for making the brewing world a better and safer place!
Who would have thought putting beer in a bucket would be so complicated! 🙂
Awesome work on the engineering side! Much respect for the time you've taken to make it functional and make it safe!
You guys did it right !!! Hats off to the entire team and excited for the new product launch
As a customer who is part of pre-order #1...THANK YOU for making a quality product and putting safety first. I've been more than happy to wait and appreciated the quick responses to my emails (Emmet Rocks!) and transparency with the development. I wish more companies operated the way you do.
- Chris
No, thank YOU for your patience!
You're a good dude, a genuine, real good, all round dude. This research is really impressive and deserves serious credit.
I appreciate the candor
Appreciate everything you all do and the transparency. As an engineer, that actually sounds like really fun testing that you all did. I would have done it for a Clawhammer setup! :p
Although it sucks that the engineering behind this product has been unexpectedly difficult for you folks,
It's really awesome to see how diligent you're being to make sure that its safe for us, and works to your design spec.
Thanks for showing us the 'behind the scenes' of your iterative development and prototyping, and for taking us on this journey!! :)
Hey coming from a product development engineer it’s super fun to watch you guys go through this process, I do a lot of burst testing for my day job and that “pucker factor” never goes away - looking forward to release!
Yes, exactly. Which is why we did all max pressure testing inside of a shipping container with 1/4" thick steel walls.
I know how much this has been eating at you guys. I appreciate you and how much you are being transparent to your community. Thanks for keeping safety first.
I look forward to getting to use one of these kegs, I think they are a work of art. Don't let the naysayers get you down, some people just have nothing positive to say about anything. I think you are making top notch products. (ps. love my 20 gallon brew kettle, the thing is awesome)
Hey Kyle, Many thanks for all the physical testing you've done to keep your customers safe and the parameters the product is rated for. I was in a similar situation with a product that had to be tested and had to spend two weeks at ATI aka Architectural Testing Institute in York, PA. They put products through their paces until it fails.
I remember how much it cost 30 years ago. It was $8,000. Way to go doing this on your own. I commend you on your efforts. I hope to get on the waiting list for one of your kegs. I like the tri clamp screw upgrade.
Big ups to you all for not putting out a sup par product and eating the money to put out a quality product as always much respect and speaks volumes to you’re integrity
Man this was a great video. I love how you guys stand behind everything you guys sell!!!! as an Electrician its always cool to watch the Pipe fitters test lines and see if thier welds are going to hold at thousands pounds of pressure before they install it on a process. Glad you guys did the physical testing. Anytime a video has a science based approach to a problem its very engaging to watch!
Just recently I have been watching all sorts of you tube channels on home brewing. The Clawhammer channel as well as many others. Your channel on CZcams is informative and lot's of fun. This hobby of home brewing has really sparked my interest a lot. At this time I haven't yet purchased any equipment to start my path in this venture. Cost vs quality has been my major focus on researching what to go with. After seeing the videos on this product and your concerns, and safety my mind is made up. Clawhammer all the way! And I can't wait to get started. Please keep up the great work on innovative ideas.
Awesome honest video Kyle. So refreshing to hear about the trials and tribulations of producing high quality items. Well done to you sir.
Absolutely love the rigour, passion, and transparency of developing this super cool product! Much respect for going through the painful paces of making sure it was safe instead of turning a blind eye. Can't wait to see what cool things people do with this keg! Would be extremely useful for test batches to replicate larger pressure fermentation vessels.
You're doing the right thing. Impressive integrity. Well done!
The time spent testing was well worth it.
Great job doing the due diligence and pain staking work to prove your product is safe. So many chinese and over seas companies and even US dont do this. Also love the amount of forth coming information you have provided documenting everything. This will all help if something goes wrong in the future or if someone is stupid and doesn't follow your guidelines. Great work.
Wow impressive to see the lenghts you've gone to ensure safety of your customer. Best of uck with the product!
Nice work fella. Great video and amazing work checking and re-checking and 100% transparency. If these products were available in the UK I'd buy them without hesitation.
Really enjoy all your content so keep it coming!
I think is so cool that you're sharing this process. good luck with launch. wishing you guys success.
Your efforts were for sure not "for naught". Being a responsible manufacturer to ensure your customers are not hurt says a lot about you and your company. Mad props!
The best for a reason. Looking forward to the finished product!
As a OSHA inspector you only have to be worried if are covered by workers comp insurance as an owner for not following the safety rules. ie. (cutting without the guard on the angle grinder). Plus if you live in a state that is run by OSHA and not a state run program you probably will never be inspected unless you have a major accident, because they don't have the man power to investigate all the problems. Have been a fan of the channel for awhile and will still be watching. Thanks for looking out or us in the hobby!
Well done mate. As a pressure vessel inspector in the oil and gas sector may I commend you on your attention to detail. Hydrostatic testing crucial in this testing.
This video made me respect your company! 👍
I’m glad you find the issues before they hit the market. The car and motorcycle industry can learn from your company.
im looking forward to placing my order
Thank you for your due diligence. Love your equipment and looking forward to getting one of these
Wow wow wow. It has been a journey for you guys and this keg. I for one appreciate all of the extra work you guys are putting in to make this thing as safe as can be. I also completely agree, no one needs to go over 40PSI. Most consumer conicals don't go over 15PSI anyway, so 40 is already way over that.
All that to say, you guys rock. 🤘
BTW - SSBrewtech Unitanks comes with a 30psi PRV. I had a stuck Spunding Valve and the RRV did its JOB!!
Thank you for all the time spent testing! great to know this will work and be safe for smaller ferments that don't need to be moved vessels, like ciders.
It's awesome you've put so much time and effort into fully testing this item. I'm sure many brewing items are mostly "field tested" by buyers.
Great work guys.
Really appreciate the lengths you guys go to in order to make sure products are safe for us. Thanks guts
I can appreciate the extra effort you guys put towards making sure your product is safe! As an electrical engineer physical testing is a must, drawings and bench testing, help you get an idea of how its going to work but it almost never works like you intended till you get in out into the field. Keep up the good work, Cheers!
Sound like you need a beer after all that. Just saw you guy came out with your own yeast! Super excited to see you guy make a video about your new yeast
Thanks for your heroic efforts ensuring that this is safe. I am convinced & eager to get one.
Good work with the transparency and prioritizing safety. It seems like you could've benefited quite a lot by having a Professional Engineer/Project Manager conducting this project off the bat.
Its great to see the process, worts and all. People will know you actually care.
Again: RESPECT!! You guys are the best!! The integrity it takes to make things right is invaluable!!
As a Structural Engineer, I can say that creating functional mathematical/FEA models is difficult, rely only on this is not a good choice. Physical tests are always the best I-can-sleep-well stamp. Congrats!! Keep it up!!
Great job guys. Safety first.
A pressure vessel blowing up at 60 psi can destroy your home's foundation. Let the haters hate. They can use the cheapo crap from overseas and risk their own homes and safety. The rest of us in the majority greatly appreciate how seriously you take this. It should be the standard.
Great work Kyle !!! Keep up the integrity .
Funny enough, I've had to undergo a small amount of this stress with kegs in an R&D environment without intent to sell a product. It's pretty common to use a safety factor of 5x in general unless it's in an industry that really understands what their working with, like bridge building, which I've heard can utilize a safety factor of 3x. So, a 60psi rated keg could potentially survive 300psi before rupturing, and yours happened to survive even higher than 5x. I think the main take away is that things are only an exact science in perfect conditions. Safety factors are created to supplement this, but it leaves people like you and I in the dark when we're trying to see what the limits are.
I've only recently started watching your videos and I like your channel. I will be checking out your products soon.
Ayyyy. I appreciate the transparency. Super cool
Thanks for doing what you did to help insure product safety. I’ve been an elevator mechanic for close to 34 years and accidents and failures are almost alway attributed to human error. So I would think just using the keg in the proper manner will keep people ok.
thanks, Kyle I do appreciate your hard work
Much respect on this process I too like to live dangerously but rupturing pressure vessels.... yeah.... again great to see you did the testing! That's huge
Above and beyond!!! Great job guys!
Thanks for your thoughtfulness
Having worked for 4 manufacturers as a field service tech, even after engineering did all there calculations, we still had to do real world testing. Sometime we’d tell engineers the customer have been using it to do this. They’d say it outside the design parameters, and have to prove to them what the customer was doing. Its better safer in the long run you did the testing.
That’s some serious dedication. Can’t wait to get access to one of these