A CNC ROUTER THAT MACHINED ITSELF
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- čas přidán 30. 09. 2020
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The files for the original CNC geared and non geared versions can be found here:
ivanmiranda.com/products/3d-p...
I finally did what everyone was asking for, I machined all the parts of the 3D printed CNC out of aluminium. I used both 10 mm and 6 mm flat stock to machine all the mechanical parts and then I used a lot of elbow grease to make the borders nicer. Drilled and taped al the holes by hand but I positioned them with small marks made with the CNC. Before the change was very difficult to make the walls cut by the bit perfectly vertical because of the flex of the entire structure. After the modification the walls are perfectly vertical as far as I can tell. I also reinforced the Y axis rail beams with two more vertical posts on each side and swapped the bridge aluminium beams for steel ones. An extra benefit of this change is that I can push the motors a little bit further now as the aluminium brackets help a lot with heat dissipation were the 3D printed parts melted. There are a few improvements that still can be made, like the vacuum hood which now sits too high and does almost nothing but this is now a machine that performs extremely well for my needs. Now let's thing of things that I can make with this machine or projects that I can bring back for a more metallic finish ;) Leave your ideas in the comments and I'll see what I can do.
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Please take some advice from a former industrial mechanic:
When drilling, turn the vice in such a way that the rotating lever rests against the stand of the machine. Turn your vice 170°. That way, when the part gets caught by the drill, the drill will hopefully slip in the chuck. But not tear your hand off. Also, since no inertia can build up, way less danger of something coming loose and transforming into a turning knive.
When cutting steel (drilling, tapping) *please* use coolant. Your tools will thank you.
When filing or deburring, the working motion should be away from you. The file works like a saw. You don't pull a saw, you push it.
That being said, amazing project! Good work. I'm impressed :D
Any sort of cutting lubricant to get the chips out. Was biting my nails thinking about a broken tap.
@Tzuede Off the Cuff hahaha nothing beats experience. But well, I'm not judging you. Do it your way. Greetings from overseas.
@Tzuede Off the Cuff Japanese razer saws cut on the pull, and Western/European saws cut on the push. If I tried to cut on the push with my ryoba or my dozuki, I'd be making a file card from the broken blades and waiting for the new blades to come in.
@@Rottwiler44 Yeah, western style handsaws are torture once you've tried a good Japanese saw. I wish there were pull cut files too. Sometimes I flip them around and hold by the tip just so I can pull cut :)
Some kind of file are both-directions symetric. And... you don't know Japanese pull saws? :)
SO NOW THAT YOU HAVE THE ALUMINUM cnc you can make steel parts for next upgrade and after that use steel one to make titanium parts and then use ..........
It is never going to end, is it?
@@ivanmirandawastaken it will be called the Mirandisation of Machines
@@ivanmirandawastaken sorry, that is the price of being a genius inventor
GOLD - the ultimate metal is gold, one of the hardest metals known to man! (That's not true at all, but having a gold CNC machine would be so bling)
I'm willing to pay it then
Your 3d printing channel is turning into a machining channel. This Old Tony would be proud.
The "This old Tony" in joke of cutting bar stock by dropping it, snapping it, or one inch punching it has become an online engineering meme that's been given a nod to by near as damn it every other engineering channel out there. The blokes a legend in this particular quirky form of comedy......... Now, just picture him paying homage to Ivan's channel by building something and saying "OK, this bearings going to need some clearance, so I'll just go turn up........ aaaaaaa SPACER !!!!!!". I think I'd laugh so hard I'd choke to death !!! :D
this old tony would cry if he saw this. this is terrible engineering. for instance, those "spacers!!" directly influence the stifness of the machine. stiffness in a milling machine is everything.
nontheless a cool project, but still the corners he cut to get it done are the tiny details that transform a decent machine to a very good machine.
@@slaapkonijn58 Considering that Ivan isn't a trained engineer, I think what he's built isn't too shabby.
As I said elsewhere on this comments page, There's a few parts where I thought "Why the hell do he do this like that ?!?!?", But I quickly realised that it's because he's come to CNC metal machining from the world of 3D printing. He's used to designing things to be "Built" one layer at a time out of plastic. It's going to take him a while to mentally adjust to this new "Material removal" way of construction.
I'm actually REALLY looking forward to see how he thinks out other projects in the future. Because he's not got the blinkers that being taught "The right way to do things" puts on us, it should be really interesting to see his alternative solutions to problems that our tunnel visioned view made us think could only be solved one way.
I have been watching for over a year now, Ivan, and I have to say that I enjoy my "weekly visits to my crazy cousin's maker lab." I love watching you work on these machines and learn something every time. Plus, the music is always fun. Thank you.
I think is Ivan very good at being patient when it comes to processing metal, both with and without power tools.
There are some pretty nice designs out there for 3D printable vice jaw covers. They have a magnet so they magnetize onto the standard jaws. I've been using them for years and they're really handy just drop them on the vise. They hold in place and you can grab something without marring it. That being said I like the ingenuity on the wood ones :-)
5 min to make wood, vs forever to print and wood is more durable.
@@clanross62 different strokes for different folks. My printed ones have held up for multiple years now and I don't have to zip tie it onto the vise. But everyone has their own way.
This looks amazing! I can already see industrial parts milled on it like gears and others!
Love how you never stop improving your designs, great work.💯👍🏼
This is my favorite video for 2020. I am not kidding. I appreciate the time, effort and thought you put into this.
Brilliant as always. So much drilling, cutting, tapping, filing. Loved the applause for the vice attachments. Cheers, JAYTEE
Can't wait to se what kind of monstrosities you create with this beast!! So excite!!!
Thanks Welbot!
Stepper motors can get very, very hot, PLA softens at temperatures as low as 60º. You could have pulled it off if you had used filaments with higher melting temperatures. But nothing beats a full metal cnc, the rigidity is just so much better.
I pulled it off
Maybe a small project idea, you seem to have the tools for it: soft jaws for your vice. 3D print some covers for the steel jaws of the vice to protect your parts. Or even remove the vice jaws and have a giant hunk of plastic to bolt there instead of the metal jaws. There's usually 2 bolts holding each jaw face on there.
This was pretty cool! Seeing a CNC machine make parts for itself. It's like the MC Escher print of the hand drawing the other hand. Life imitating art.
I hope to do this with my 3D printers soon. You’re amazing Ivan, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!
I ended up doing the same.
Bought a cheap Ender 3, modded that to the extent maybe 1 profile is the only thing original on the machine, then thought of building my own large 3D printer, but the main thing I disliked about most 3D printers is that they are wobbly as all hell with the tiny 2020 profiles and plastic parts.
So instead I used my upgraded Ender to build a basic benchtop CNC that can deal with aluminium.
And used that to start milling parts to build a 3D printer with larger profiles (2040/4040/4080/8080/20120, etc) and a CNC with aluminium parts where they were useful to sturdy things up.
Then I bought one of those micro lathes, upgraded the crap out of that with the CNC and now I'm using that to make new parts for the other two.
And I'm guessing once I'm done with that, I'm going to feel like neither of the 3 is capable or big enough and start building bigger and stronger versions of all 3.
I wonder if there's an endpoint in this hobby, the better you make your tools, the more ways you figure out to make your tools better and so on and so on XD
I remember commenting on his first cnc machine saying something like: Great now you can use your 3d printed cnc to build a metal one. And here we are 😉🙌👌
Now lets upgrade it with some ball screws instead of belts 😏
It is all your fault
@@ivanmirandawastaken 😂 Thats what i like about you. You actually do it. most people including me only talk about it while ending up watching youtube vids instead. You inspire me to upgrade my own mpcnc so thats what i'll do! 🙌
Man, watching cnc routers and fdm printers do their thing is so incredibly satisfying and mezmerizing!
Some people stare into a campfire or their fishtank for a while, i loose my self in watching my printers (and maybe a cnc router in the future) do their thing
You have to be one of the most informative AND entertaining people on YT. Thank you!
I think the next stage is to cnc a mill, then mill the tools to make a 3d printer by hand, and so on ad infinitum
Ivan I love your builds and how excited you sound talking about them.
I am!
I was trained as a metal machinist, and I kept seeing design features on this that made me think "Why the hell did he design these parts to fit together like like that?". Most of the things I noticed weren't really any better or worse than the "Normal" way to do things, Just an unusual and unexpected way.
It dawned on me about half way through that Ivan came to engineering from the world of 3D printing where you try to design strength into something by adding material (And therefor, Printing time) only where needed. I come from an industry where you primarily machine to get clearance for other components, and only spend the extra time needed to remove unnecessary metal if part of the design brief calls for lightness. He comes from an engineering situation where the fasteners are stronger than the material that the structures made from. He's learnt that you can't put high loads on threads in the structural material. He's come to mechanical design with a completely different mind set compared to what people trained in engineering have. It then became REALLY interesting to watch the unusual design choices and understanding why those choices were made.
As I said, I couldn't see anything that was intrinsically flawed, But there was a lot of slightly odd design ideas that could be useful things to keep in mind for if they would be a more appropriate solution in any of my future projects.
I struggle to change the mindset indeed! I'm restrained by the thickness of what I could cut. Now I can cut thicker materials so I can just make more stuff in a single more sturdier part. Thanks!
@@ivanmirandawastaken I wasn't criticising you mate. We think out solutions based on previous experience and whatever knowledge had been given to us. You've got a quite rare set of previous engineering experiences that give your solutions an unusual quantity that's very interesting, even to a seasoned engineer.
It's leading me to believe that my engineering education may have given me a kind of tunnel vision with regards to thinking up solutions to engineering problems. I only have the set of "approved" solutions I was taught (Plus some shortcuts I've learnt along the way) in my mental toolbox of options.
You on the other hand were never taught that "this is how something HAS to be done", so you try other ideas out, and find that a fair few work just fine.
I'm thinking I could learn a lot from watching how you do things differently to how I would have done them, then pondering about the benefits and drawbacks of both solutions.
@@Reman1975 Very interested in those items you noticed as different. (I'm not an ME, but learned by trial from a cnc /woodworking perspective).
@@TheRainHarvester It's mainly things like drilling right through some plates and adding longer bolts with a nut on the other side rather than tapping the through hole and just bolting into that. There's also some parts that use a "T slot" that a bolt head slips into, Like the belt adjustment clamps at 16:50 and 17:57, and how the top plate on the X axis carriage is attached at 18:02. Most "Trained" engineers would have probably drilled and tapped the bottom plate of the clamps and threadlocked a length of allthread into them for the belt adjustment, Or threaded the part all the way through and had the bolt the other way around. The end plate on the X carriage would have been attached by drilling 3 or 4 holes through the end plate and into the edge of the carriage, Then tapping the carriages holes and drilling the plates holes for bolt clearance. I've seen some lightweight Chinese "Hobby" machinery that use T slot's to hold thin sheet metal in place edge on, But that tends to be done because it's the cheapest way to attach non structural or low stressed parts together. I've never seen it scaled up and used on a structural joint before, But looking at it, I can't see it being any weaker than the parts being threaded and held together with smaller bolts (Smaller due to the constraints of the materials thickness)
As I said, There's nothing wrong with how Ivan's done things here, It just feels really odd after you've been taught "If you're fixing parts [XYZ] together you HAVE to do it THIS way" to see things successfully done quite differently.
@@Reman1975 thanks for this write up! After making my cnc (on my channel) if I made another, I'd design it with adjustability in mind.
Do you think one of these ways allows for adjustability? (T slot vs tapped holes?) I'm guessing tapped holes would be better because the unthreaded plate's holes could be made bigger so the plate could adjust. But I don't know if that works with tapered holes, so maybe adjustability is still not possible?
Ivan, I seriously enjoy your channel. Thanks for sharing your projects.
Usually to clean edges of parts up from break off tabs we use a die grinder with various sanding bits. we also use a deburing knife to clean all the sharp edges if there was not a chamfer used. The upgrade looks good. interested to see what you shall make next with it.
Incredible work! You are good with taps. I'd have broken a hundred if those things.
3D Printer -> Plastic CNC -> Metal CNC. Bravo!
All forms of performing arts, including mechanical sciences, are always such a pleasure to watch.
After designing and building 3 CNC mills + routers I would do just one thing different from what I see here. Start by making all of your flat aluminum components out of either MDF ( aka Medite ) or furniture grade plywood as accurately as you can. Assembly your machine as accurately as possible and really tune it up. Now you have a decent CNC router that will make very high quality aluminum parts which you can make one by one to replace your temporary MDF parts. A true bootstrap operation.
ok man how is it you kept my eyes on the video the entire 25 minutes? You're real good
18:49 These 4 long bolts have nothing stopping them from becoming loose over time from the base end.
Or Pillow Block Flange Mounted Bearing?
That was a considerable upgrade.
A very useful one indeed!
Amazing! Top notch work here! I don’t know why but I suddenly NEED to be able to machine aluminum...NEED! Appreciate your hard work!
It's been great watching you grow from a small cupboard to a full workshop
Hi there! You can save a LOT of filing time with a Scotchbrite grinding wheel. Get the grey ones for aluminum and steel, mount on a bench grinder and have a go. :-)
I'm calling it now. Ivan is working up to building a 5-axis cnc mill.
You should put some squares (triangular ones for instance, like the ones that support the gantry) at the corners of your plate and on the gantry also,. That will severely increase rigidity
Ivan, if you added a mdf web or “diaphragm” between the steel tubes of the gantry it would stiffen it considerably. Maybe dampen vibration as well. You could add one vertically or add them horizontally and at 45 degrees to make a space frame. That would provide torsional rigidly as well. Or you could 3D print truss webbing. Probably not quite as stiff or dampening.
Maybe do a video testing if it does stiffen the gantry?
Awesome build by the way!
Way to go Ivan as usual another awesome build. Thanks from Canada
Interesting dust shoe design. The downdraught of the router is carried away through the tube. So nothing is blown all over the shop. I've bought a watercooled spindle to get over that, hopefully my dustshoe will then be more effective. Great channel, love your thinking!
Un grandísimo trabajo! Paso a paso partiendo de una impresora 3d conseguiste construir una CNC impresionante a un precio contenido. Algún día replicaré algo parecido!
Wow! my favorite way to CNC the parts. Should show this vid to all my files, drills, grinders and jacksaws, too cheer it up! =)
Well done Ivan, that's very impressive. It'll be very useful I'm sure.
Wonderful build- love it!
Grande Ivan! 💪 Muito bom o vídeo!
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the CNC bit isn't completely perpendicular to the workpiece, is it? At least, I'd say that's the reason for the very clear patterns you can see on the finished metal wrench
Good eye! The top and bottom router mounts aren't equal and the router is tilted, I luckily I used the walls along the Y to judge the straightness of the cuts but yes, I need to redo those two parts so the router is orthogonal to the workpiece. As a funny side note, the router was originally tilted the other way due to the 3D printed parts giving to the weight of the router. Thanks! edit: I just realised that after finishing editing the video.
@@ivanmirandawastaken Quick recommendation: Check out the "Everman belt drive". It could be a cheap upgrade that would significantly reduce the deflection caused by the belts, and reduce the tension needed on the whole belt.
@@ivanmirandawastaken would it be easier to cut out a traming plate to fit your existing bolt pattern?
@@ivanmirandawastaken make adjustable, because over time.......
@Ivan Miranda, redesign the carriage so that you can tram the mill to the workpiece. It's not a 3d printer that you're building here. Tram matters!
Really nice to see you not wasting some of the metal and putting it aside!
Very cool project! Your drag chain could go the other way so that it unwinds as the machine moves left (the bottom part remains stationary) ☺️
so much planning, skill and knowledge!
That is a huge amount of efforts, awesome!
Amazing as always. Bravo!
wow this is an insane amount of work!
Imagine the RC tanks with an aluminum chasis. Dope
Yes!
I'm thinking, imagine then with aluminum treads ;)
I hope i didnt accidentally revealed a spoiler. Heheheh
Outstanding project! And so many steps done by hand, with precision and dedication to every detail!
I wonder if it would be possible to make an all in one motion system with all the knowledge you have acquired with your builds. The linar rails and all metal construction would be perfect, I'd just change the design of the Z-axis to something like the Lowrider CNC does: Two screw drives on the outside of the machine, which can move below the table surface. That way, the Z height is only restricted by the table height, and you could install a heated bed and an extruder and have a large printer (Vulcan extruder?). Some kind of quick swap mounting system with only a few screws or clips, and you got yourself a capable machine for almost any task, you could even mount a laser and a stepper driven rotary chuck for machining round stuff! Just an idea to save some workshop space :)
Awesome! Alucinante! Mejoras para mejoras, yeah!
Good to see the new drill in use!
Yes! What a beast!
The editing of this video is superb.
now you can CNC a steel 5 axis CNC🤣
this is the biggest flex yet, and the ultimate goal of every maker lol, nicely done!
MIND BLOWING! GREAT JOB!! 4 axis, Water-cooled Spindle next?
Amazing work! Love it!!
Next will be a CNC'd Plasma cutter used to plasma cut steel parts for a new CNC
That actually would not be a hard mod as you only need to get a plasma cutter.
Fascinating bootstrapping. 3d printer makes cnc plastic parts, cnc makes alu parts for itself. What's next, cnc makes 3d printer parts? Great job! Very inspiring.
you now need to get some unobtainium and CNC that :) awesome build and video thanks heaps for sharing.
Great progression👍
Thanks!
Congratulations, it is beautiful.
Very cool upgrade!
Nice work. I like the leadscrew mount for the Z axis
Great job ! This turned out great, but I'm actually surprised that the bit didn't break from the big plunges at the start.
Fantastic Ivan!!! I am half way through making your CNC and will accept your challenge to make the aluminum update,,, thankyou.
nice bootstrap upgrade...
now you need coolant spraying ;-)
excellent work, glad to see I'm not the only one who doesn't check fits before assembly .:-)
If you connect the Steel rods in the middle you will increase the stiffness a Lot.
Great Project. I gave up optimizing my mpcnc. Good decision when i See the amount of Work.
This is amazing. And no youpube commercials to sit through. Subed, thank you very much.
That belt tensioner is a piece of art😮🤯
You should make the system rack and pinion. I believe this is how most DIY CNC's are built since it adds rigidity when machining
The pain, why do you let it run when it fails! I will have a hard time sleeping efter seeing that :) Great job on the metal CNC.
It is called multitasking, or not paying attention to the right thing 😅 Thanks!
This is really impressive work you have done here. Im very tempted to build one like this :-)
Ojalá tuviera tiempo para hacerme una CNC de estas :) Mola un montón!
What a beatiful period of life, when your work is your inspiration and a hobby in one thing. This videos schould be called "UPLIFLING CONSTRUCTION" =)
RESPECT! Awesome job!
SPACERS! Great video Ivan! great passion
Spacers!!
Nice! Now, try and use the mill like it should be used: spiral down to a nice depth, 8mm or something like that. Now, cut with the SIDE of the bit, instead of the end. So, at full depth, just take off 1mm at a time. The adaptive clearing function in fusion is perfect to do this. With the right speeds and feeds, you should get beautiful chips flying of the bit instead of powder.
BTW, a fogbuster is a great addition too. Keep up the good work!
@Tzuede Off the Cuff didn't you see the machine milling at full depth, full pass without anything really going wrong? That's quite an indication that this machine has the capability to do some serious milling:)
Awesome video, thanks for sharing! What kind of saw are you using to cut the aluminium profiles?
I was really expecting a "so.. lets put it back together" at 2:30 :D
OK, now This Old Tony' videos makes sense.
To machine metal: step one is build a time machine😎
Seriously, I love the fact that you used your CNC to improve your CNC!
Iteration is a powerful tool of discovery.
May I suggest also trying Recursion and Abstraction?
Recursion is list iteration with a list having the possibility to include the same list or another list as one of the items in your list. Thanks.
great job on the video, love the music, sound, shot selection, editing, scripting and much more. Keep up the good work.
Great work but you should always champfer your holes before tapping if possible as the champfer can rip the starting thread just a bit.
is that what he's doing afterwards? so best is before and after i guess?
You're the first guy I've ever seen chamfer after taping a hole.
Yes, I was going to comment on that, plus those threads would have been pretty manky using that drill and leaning all over the place like that.
Love your energy man :D Great videos as always
Would love to see another how-to like your 3d printer. Great work, time to make an aluminum tank next.
Always excited when a new video drops. 👍
Yay!
Buen trabajo Sr. Iván, muy enriquecedores tus videos, estaría genial algún contenido en español ;). Saludos y gracias por compartir.
@Ivan Miranda great video and build, do you have anywhere you have put the settings you have had the best results with for cutting aluminium? router speed setting, cut depths and feed rates etc? i've been trying with my but yours seems to cut much nicer than mine does, even with the 8mm deep cut.
Thank you!
20:46 how do you adjust the tension? It seems like the head of the bolt needed to go on the other end.
No tengo palabras, cada video te superas más!
At 10:16, I totally saw that coming! SPACER!
Love the wooden vise jaws.
Hola Iván, ¿que control y software usas para programar las trayectorias de corte?, no reconocí la interfaz en tablet, saludos
O som dos aplausos na hora da madeirinha na morsa foi infalível para não esquecermos do like. Show! rsrs
Incredible build!
Ivan, what is the usable travel distance for the x and y axis on your downloadable plans? I'm wondering if I will need to enlarge it for my purposes. Thanks for a great design.
Just be carefull, when operating a drill with a glove on. Sure, chips are hot an sharp, but eventually, the glove gets caught and you'll regret putting your hand in it.
I run the drill with the belt loose just for that reason, I can make it stall just by grabbing the chuck, but if the part flies of my hand and starts spinning it will slice my hand open hence the gloves. Good advice! Thanks!
That’ll literally never happen, and is kind of an old wives tale, lol
@@Not_DB_Cooper I threw away that glove a few years ago, was also proving against your claim.
@@Not_DB_Cooper I got my hand and arm tangled around the cylindrical part on the Lathe while wearing gloves. The machine caught my gloves while I was sanding the part. Almost lost my fingers. I completely understand where you're coming from. I had that mentality when I was a stubborn 19 years old. I've learned my lesson. I'm now 25 and wished I didn't get the scars.
Got a t-shirt stuck in a drill bit once. I'm lucky it was a hand drill so I could just pull my finger off the trigger. Even so, it tangled up so fast I got a nasty gash on my stomach. If it was a mill or a drill press... well, I don't want to imagine that. Loose clothing and gloves getting grabbed is no wives tale
I would add a tub and water pump to keep the metal cool and to remove metal particles from the work project. Add a filtering screen to protect the pump. Another benefit to keeping the bit cool is that they will last longer and prevent dulling.
Hi Ivan, just a hint for tapping, first countersunk, than tap, makes it easier an you do not destroy/damage the tappings :D
Nice Work - What was first Egg or Cicken ?
At 11:10 the bearings as guide for the belt, instead putting each on a extwnsion, make a Part connecting both as a spacer, maybe additionaly connected to the sidewall to perform more stiffnes - I would think although the screw seams to be big, it will bend over time, the belt tension schould not be underetimated. Same at 17:29.
18:39 use a ballscrw instead a trapziodal, less to no backlash.
18:57 heatsink on the stepper not needed - ist connected to th aluplate, that is enough - maybe finetune the spepper settings eg. current etc.
Change the connection to the baseplate, the plastics might not hold enough when milling metal I think, make some ALU brackets instead.
Why did you not replace all ALU pipes? only the Yaxis ones?
But never the less quite well done