MENACE: the pile of matchboxes which can learn

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  • čas přidán 13. 11. 2017
  • See more data and check out what we changed on the second day (which caused MENACE to learn a different strategy) in the second video: • Day 2: Revenge of MENACE
    Check out Matt Scroggs’s original blog post about MENACE and in the amazing Chalkdust magazine.
    www.mscroggs.co.uk/blog/19
    chalkdustmagazine.com/tag/menace/
    Play against the online version of MENACE:
    www.mscroggs.co.uk/menace/
    This is the original 1961 “Experiments on the mechanization of game-learning” by Donald Michie.
    www.dropbox.com/s/ycsycu0l01g...
    Thanks to Katie Steckles for organising our stall at the Manchester Science Festival and Antonio Benitez for giving us the space.
    The MENACE crew were:
    Alison Clarke, Andrew Taylor, Ash Frankland, David Williams, Katie Steckles, Matthew Scroggs, Paul Taylor, Sam Headleand and Zoe Griffiths
    Get your MENACE data here!
    www.dropbox.com/s/0f9ukxxvh0p...
    CORRECTIONS:
    None yet. Let me know if you spot anything!
    Thanks to my Patreon supporters who made this possible! Here are the random subset I read out during the video:
    Ben White
    Scott Robinson
    Nelson Emerson
    Amy Sandland
    Neil McGovern
    Support my channel and make more videos like this possible!
    / standupmaths
    Music by Howard Carter
    Filming and editing by Trunkman Productions
    Audio mastering by Peter Doggart
    Design by Simon Wright
    MATT PARKER: Stand-up Mathematician
    Website: standupmaths.com/
    Maths book: makeanddo4D.com/
    Nerdy maths toys: mathsgear.co.uk/
  • Zábava

Komentáře • 1K

  • @HagenvonEitzen
    @HagenvonEitzen Před 6 lety +687

    9:20 That suggests to build Menace A and Menace B - and have them both learn by only playing against each other

    • @Eurley66
      @Eurley66 Před 6 lety +118

      Would actually work, adversarial machine learning is quite interesting.

    • @Anvilshock
      @Anvilshock Před 6 lety +22

      And don't forget to let Robert Miles know!

    • @aidangarner1181
      @aidangarner1181 Před 6 lety +15

      This is how we end up with the matrix.

    • @crashdemons
      @crashdemons Před 6 lety +35

      This model of Menace just builds a [physical] FSM (a Finite-State-Machine knowing all game states) and slowly prunes edges that lead to known failure states.
      In particular, this works on games that are trivial (we can iterate all the states and their moves), and it can be done by just tracing edges from each failure state back and removing that edge - something done faster without humans or matchboxes.
      Also, it relies on human knowledge to solve the problem since so much is already represented by these connections (box-bead-box) - so it's really questionable if you can call this machine learning versus just filtering a state-machine.
      [For example: if we have a phonebook of all numbers in the world and if we randomly call a number and remove it if it's disconnected, we will eventually get a phonebook of all connected numbers - does the phonebook learn?]
      In larger real problems you need to both be able to explore the problem space, identify undesirable states and optimize at the same time, not just prune from all possible moves.

    • @KuraIthys
      @KuraIthys Před 6 lety +13

      You make a valid point. And that's the challenge isn't it?
      The only guaranteed optimal solution is to examine the entire possibility space of a problem and find the optimal point (or points, if there are solutions of equal weight) in that space.
      Fine with small problem spaces, but impractical with larger ones, thus we need a way of getting a good (but not necessarily ideal) solution with less effort...

  • @BazzFreeman
    @BazzFreeman Před 6 lety +546

    So, when I lose a game I can honestly say "I am dumber than a box of matches"

    • @AlexKing-tg9hl
      @AlexKing-tg9hl Před 4 lety +39

      pile of matchboxes

    • @garychap8384
      @garychap8384 Před 4 lety +9

      No, but clearly something _could_ be said about the arrangement of your _"marbles"_ ; )

    • @Septimus_ii
      @Septimus_ii Před 3 lety +8

      Yes, but the pile of matchboxes has practiced more than you

    • @266art
      @266art Před 2 měsíci

      Not necessarily ​@@Septimus_ii

  • @CractusJohn
    @CractusJohn Před 6 lety +607

    "Can a Match Box?"
    "No, but it can learn."

    • @andymcl92
      @andymcl92 Před 6 lety +18

      The secret alternative answer to the impossible quiz...

    • @JL-zw7hi
      @JL-zw7hi Před 6 lety +24

      John Joubran No but a tin can

  • @MisterAppleEsq
    @MisterAppleEsq Před 6 lety +1053

    Matt 'chbox' Parker

  • @amyshaw893
    @amyshaw893 Před 6 lety +319

    well, i know what im coding tonight

    • @trickytreyperfected1482
      @trickytreyperfected1482 Před 6 lety +65

      Nillie The whole point to getting good at coding is to first code what has already been coded. That way, you can then know lots of new stuff to use in your own projects.

    • @nix207
      @nix207 Před 6 lety +9

      You know what, I'm gonna try this too now.

    • @ragnkja
      @ragnkja Před 6 lety +20

      That makes sense, Trey Atkins and Elf Friend. Thanks for taking the time to make me a bit less ignorant.

    • @amyshaw893
      @amyshaw893 Před 6 lety +6

      i was just kinda bored and wanted to code something...

    • @Periiapsis
      @Periiapsis Před 6 lety +3

      Elf Friend coding algebra ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • @EtzEchad
    @EtzEchad Před 3 lety +25

    I remember that Martin Gardner article (I believe he published it in Scientific American) and I built this and played it as a teenager in the 60s. This was one of the first steps I took toward becoming a Computer Scientist.
    That was fun!

    • @ADHD_Gamer
      @ADHD_Gamer Před rokem +1

      reading that book I do not remember that many boxes. I believe he removed the mirror layouts. not sure. but yet, got me into A.I. LOL

  • @cosmicjenny4508
    @cosmicjenny4508 Před 6 lety +1258

    "This must be what procreating feels like."
    UM. Okay, Matt...

    • @bpery1614
      @bpery1614 Před 6 lety +151

      He's a mathematician, he wouldn't know otherwise

    • @mdfogarty
      @mdfogarty Před 6 lety +25

      Quote is at 8:32, had the same reaction as you.

    • @CapaTwoZero
      @CapaTwoZero Před 6 lety +38

      A real Parker analogy.

    • @PhilBagels
      @PhilBagels Před 6 lety +10

      Trust me on this: It feels different.

    • @patrese993
      @patrese993 Před 6 lety +11

      Who is looking for backdoors in the AI then.......?

  • @kayleighlehrman9566
    @kayleighlehrman9566 Před 6 lety +217

    MENACE, for when the machine goes first, and
    DENNIS, for when the human goes first

    • @IceMetalPunk
      @IceMetalPunk Před 6 lety +43

      DENACE: Dueling, Educable Naughts-And-Crosses Engine.
      When they're pitted against each other in true adversarial learning fashion, they're still DENACE the MENACE :)

    • @yoyoyonono
      @yoyoyonono Před 3 lety

      Dennis liao

  • @kxuydhj
    @kxuydhj Před rokem +13

    "I never thought i'd have a sense of pride over a sentient pile of matchboxes, but here we are."
    This line was great enough by itself, but he really perfected it by saying "This must be what procreating feels like".

  • @thejunkman
    @thejunkman Před 6 lety +451

    Obligatory quote "The only winning move is not to play"

    • @vpheonix
      @vpheonix Před 6 lety +10

      "War Games" - a great movie.

    • @Graknorke
      @Graknorke Před 6 lety +12

      How about a nice game of chess?

    • @rcb3921
      @rcb3921 Před 6 lety +13

      No. Let's play Global Thermonuclear War.

    • @jwgmail
      @jwgmail Před 5 lety

      Hello Joshua

    • @Ritefita
      @Ritefita Před 5 lety

      I've seen that AI's decision in some AI youtube

  • @linamishima
    @linamishima Před 6 lety +180

    Menace doesn't die, it just learns that the only way to win is not to play :D

    • @keithkrummel9344
      @keithkrummel9344 Před 6 lety +3

      czcams.com/video/6DGNZnfKYnU/video.html

    • @smaug131
      @smaug131 Před 3 lety +5

      Or Menace loses all hope, poor thing

  • @Quintkat
    @Quintkat Před 6 lety +9

    This is secretly one of the best and simplest videos explaining machine learning

  • @samrichardson8388
    @samrichardson8388 Před 6 lety +84

    As a dad, I can tell you that procreation carries a wide range of emotions, with pride being a small part. Fear and frustration are much more common.

    • @andymcl92
      @andymcl92 Před 6 lety +12

      You don't think searching for the right box so you can add or remove some beads all day would be frustrating?

    • @samrichardson8388
      @samrichardson8388 Před 6 lety +8

      andymcl92 I can't speak to that. He said it was like procreation, and it may be. I only know the procreation part

    • @PatPatych
      @PatPatych Před 6 lety +2

      As your mum, I disapprove this comment.

    • @npc6817
      @npc6817 Před 4 lety +2

      You made a whole child? How many known universes could fit inside the sphere of radius in centimeters equal to the number of boxes that it took?

    • @jimnelsen2064
      @jimnelsen2064 Před 2 lety +2

      when two matchboxes love each other very much.......

  • @MarcelPogorzelski
    @MarcelPogorzelski Před 6 lety +60

    Corner is by the way the best opening move against humans because it's an unusual move. It's still a drawn game if played right, but people who aren't familiar has a greater chance of doing the wrong move.

    • @JavierSalcedoC
      @JavierSalcedoC Před 6 lety +22

      Not because it's an unusual position but because is mathematically the best starting position

    • @aarondavis5386
      @aarondavis5386 Před 6 lety +5

      Like the person before me said: corner is the best position to open with once you know the moves if you start in the corner if the you will win 100% of the time if your opponent goes anywhere but center, if that happens take the opposite corner and you still win 100% of the time your opponent doesn't take a side space, and only in that situation are you forced to draw.

    • @FinetalPies
      @FinetalPies Před 6 lety +3

      Sorry but center is the best move. What's the counter to your opponent going corner first? Go center. As long as you know that the center is the most important position, its very hard to lose.

    • @asherael
      @asherael Před 5 lety +3

      the game can reliably be won or tied starting in the corner, Menace gets to go first, it needs to take the corner.

    • @pedroteran5885
      @pedroteran5885 Před 3 lety +3

      Marcel is simply right. You will get a win (at least once) against most humans by giving them a chance to use their usual centerplay strategy in cornerplay. But you will get only draw after draw after draw if you play center.

  • @gloweye
    @gloweye Před 3 lety +15

    I'd say, start with like 4 of each color in each box, so it's harder to kill off routes early in development. It should learn a bit slower, therefore keeping it more fun at the convention, and it should end up knowing *all* Paths to Victory.

  • @achu11th
    @achu11th Před 6 lety +289

    Parker sentient beings.

    • @crobes4155
      @crobes4155 Před 6 lety +14

      The human race is going to be destroyed by matchboxes!

    • @achu11th
      @achu11th Před 6 lety +18

      TheTopazRobot they are just Parker sentient. They can learn how to draw with the human race only.

    • @EPMTUNES
      @EPMTUNES Před 6 lety

      hes such a MES

    • @achu11th
      @achu11th Před 6 lety

      EPMTUNES wrong channel, but nice to meet you. Here I prefer Parker Square jokes as you may have guessed already. So I would be considered a Parker MES.

    • @EPMTUNES
      @EPMTUNES Před 6 lety

      achu11th good idea. I’m going to start to make Parker square references on mes’ vids

  • @KarnKaul
    @KarnKaul Před 6 lety +6

    8:33 @Matt, that's kinda what programming feels like too! The satisfaction of your watching your theory autonomously running, and correctly... Bliss!

  • @kwinvdv
    @kwinvdv Před 6 lety +18

    You could also teach matchboxes to play Dr. Nim.

  • @DataCab1e
    @DataCab1e Před 6 lety +372

    No, no, no... Use Tic Tac boxes containing differently-colored toes!

  • @souravzzz
    @souravzzz Před 6 lety +292

    The one dislike is from the person who lost to MENACE.

  • @SchutzmarkeGMBH
    @SchutzmarkeGMBH Před 6 lety +21

    I love that it can die out. The way to win is not to play at all.

  • @Zephyrio
    @Zephyrio Před 6 lety +4

    I remember in elementary school, thinking myself pretty good at the tic-tac-toe. But then a friend beat me with a corner starting move. I was quite amazed and have played with a corner starting move ever since. I'm surprised at the disparity between greens and blues in the starting box. Corner move is pretty awesome...

    • @mage3690
      @mage3690 Před 9 měsíci +1

      Corner move is a very specific way to win that requires you to pick a specific corner relative to your starting corner in the second round. This is one of those "local minima" problems that crops up an awful lot in machine learning, and it's why you need very specific reward structures to teach the machine right. In this case, it doesn't make the reward structure particularly more difficult: you just need to punish it for picking center. But the problem expands exponentially, just like any problem involving decision trees not reduced by real intelligence.

  • @chinareds54
    @chinareds54 Před 6 lety +31

    How many matchboxes would be needed to learn Global Thermonuclear War?

    • @Kaiwala
      @Kaiwala Před 6 lety +3

      And how much would it cost to buy enough for the nuclear winter DLC by EA?

    • @jaewok5G
      @jaewok5G Před 6 lety +2

      settle down, joshua

  • @pannegoleyn9734
    @pannegoleyn9734 Před 2 lety +2

    I love this! When I was 9 or 10, I got a copy of Martin Gardner's "Mathematical Carnival", which contains his piece about matchbox computers, and I was absolutely fascinated by it, though I never tried to build one. Forty-something years on, it still sticks in my memory -- I know exactly where I was (in a dinner queue at school) when I read it! It's great to see it in action.
    (Actually, I've been mourning for that book, unable to find it for years, and it's been out of print. Happily, a couple of years ago, an ex-colleague from my first job met my ex-partner, and returned it -- apparently I lent it to him sometime in the early 90s -- and I've very happily re-read it quite recently 🙂 )

  • @felixmerz6229
    @felixmerz6229 Před 5 lety +4

    This is absolutely amazing. I love the cross-over of high and low tech and this is the perfect synergy.

  • @MNalias
    @MNalias Před 6 lety +58

    I feel like this is the machine that CZcams uses for there adbot.

    • @oledakaajel
      @oledakaajel Před 6 lety +9

      Nah. This is too advanced.

    • @anjopag31
      @anjopag31 Před 6 lety

      Probably does use something similar. Inputs are what you like, a few hidden layers perform calculations, and then the output is the type of ad. Your feedback rewards or punishes the network.

    • @MrGeocidal
      @MrGeocidal Před 5 lety

      Machine learning only works when it makes mistakes. Google is unaware of that fact.

    • @benadians1769
      @benadians1769 Před 4 lety

      @@MrGeocidal when was the last time you rated an ad?

  • @Laceykat66
    @Laceykat66 Před 5 lety +1

    Back in the 1960s Reader's Digest had a "Book of Adventures" that had stories, puzzles, games and activities, all in hard bound.
    One of the activities was building a "computer" that would play "Hex-a-pawn." This was a game that used the nine square board (3x3) and three pawns on each side. The paws moved as traditionally and the object was to get your color in your opponent's home row.
    Like this experiment, you had matchboxes with the various board configurations on them and inside were colored beads to indicate the move. I came across this book in the 1970s (computers were becoming more of a reality by then) and spent a snowed-in weekend building the "machine" and playing the game. It was a lot of fun and taught me how programmes worked (basic anyway) and how a computer CAN make a mistake.

  • @Coen80
    @Coen80 Před 6 lety

    favorite channel. keep up the good work. really love the mix of humour and information!

  • @badlydrawnturtle8484
    @badlydrawnturtle8484 Před 6 lety +8

    “I am now joined by the guy who's fault it is!”
    This is the reason I follow you. Well, that and computers made of matchboxes.

  • @charlotte1924
    @charlotte1924 Před 6 lety +71

    How many match boxes would it need to learn how to play Mario?

    • @AtlasReburdened
      @AtlasReburdened Před 6 lety +14

      At most, the number of pixels to the power of the number of colors to the power of the number of degrees of freedom the player has to the power of the number of possible in game coodinates, or roundabouts.

    • @theleftuprightatsoldierfield
      @theleftuprightatsoldierfield Před 6 lety +11

      Atlas WalkedAway in other words, a big-ass number

    • @OriginalPiMan
      @OriginalPiMan Před 6 lety +11

      Functionally (but not literally) infinite.

    • @LexanPanda
      @LexanPanda Před 6 lety +10

      One step at a time. We need to get command blocks playing MarI/O first.

    • @binaryteddybear8741
      @binaryteddybear8741 Před 6 lety

      Atlas WalkedAway well, there is only one speed in Mario, right? You could divide it up in to steps, that would make it almost feasible

  • @tranl1050
    @tranl1050 Před 6 lety

    ONE OF My MOST FAVOURITE VIDEOS ON CZcams

  • @NoIce33
    @NoIce33 Před 5 lety +2

    Ages ago I found a description of a similar learning pile of matchboxes from an old Soviet-time puzzle book. That game was different
    (a breakthrough of pawns on a 3x3 cheassboard), but it inspired me to make a tic-tac-toe version. I took rotations and reflections into
    account and didn't need that many boxes (only about 20, don't remember how many exactly); I also used a simpler algorithm where nothing was added, only in case of loss the last move indicator was removed (and if this emptied a box then the used move indicator from the previous box et c.). The simpler algorithm was, of course, worse, because it didn't distinguish between wins and draws (this feature was carried over from the original pawn game where draws were not possible), so in the end my fully trained machine mindlessly cruised into draw even in winning position. I think I grew bored before coming up with the idea of rewarding wins by adding indicators.
    A slight problem with this algorithm seems to be that it quickly becomes a fan of lines that have brought success. I don't think that corner opening is any worse than centre opening; one might say it is better (because it only leaves the opponent one non-losing move, while the centre opening leaves four in a way), but MENACE apparantly happened to score its first win or two with centre opening and this filled the opening matchbox with green beads, after which it, of course, started to open with centre move and kept scoring its wins with that, and so it snowballed.

    • @mage3690
      @mage3690 Před 9 měsíci

      The path to victory in corner move first is much more narrow than center move as well, though. The first move reduces the second move to one possibility as well, so both you and your opponent are stuck with one winning move on corner move. It's actually a fantastic example of a local minima, and it's why ML models need good reward systems to achieve the right outcome.

  • @entropyzero5588
    @entropyzero5588 Před 6 lety +3

    I might have missed this in the video, but I think an important thing to mention is that the initial state of the boxes _isn't_ one bead of every possible colour, but instead 8 each in the first box, 4 for the second moves, 2 for the third and one each in the rest (something which isn't even covered in the blogpost in the description…). The way Matt explained the setup would have a high likelihood very quickly dying out…

  • @Alex2Buzz
    @Alex2Buzz Před 6 lety +6

    "It's learned to resign on the first move."
    So basically, all it's learned in that case is that it's bad at noughts and crosses.

  • @therealzilch
    @therealzilch Před 5 lety

    What a wonderful idea! And very engagingly done! Kudos on all concerned.

  • @mojitomaker
    @mojitomaker Před 5 lety

    Brilliant demonstration Matt. 👍🏻

  • @spinnwebe_
    @spinnwebe_ Před 6 lety +4

    Oh my god I was at the museum last week! I practically could’ve run into you!

  • @RaiCar1005
    @RaiCar1005 Před 6 lety +14

    Don’t beat yourself up about it. Tic Tac boxes are transparent

    • @Zero-ks3pc
      @Zero-ks3pc Před 6 lety +2

      Rai Car but they can be shaken up and the piece delivered without human influence, not to mention a bit of tape could cover the clear bits. The bigger issue would be size limitation as it would fill up quickly and as it approaches its limit the ability for the pieces to move freely and any piece be equally possible begins to drop to almost zero.

  • @serhancinar5218
    @serhancinar5218 Před 6 lety

    I feel quite strange that how much I find this video very entertaining. Excellent work!..

  • @Grizzly01
    @Grizzly01 Před 3 lety +1

    0:25 Yay! Katie Steckles from the Puzzle Hunters on Only Connect!

  • @Izandaia
    @Izandaia Před 6 lety +11

    Now that Matt Scroggs "has" this contraption... He can't be blocked except by two or more creatures.

    • @untitled6087
      @untitled6087 Před 6 lety +3

      What is this, some kind of _magic?_ What would a _gathering_ of matchboxes do to help him with that?

  • @trobin
    @trobin Před 6 lety +7

    Thanks for the vid

  • @ajreukgjdi94
    @ajreukgjdi94 Před 6 lety +1

    Inspired by this and a previous video, in a fit on boredom, i programmed a bot to play Nim and let it go second 300 times against a perfect opponent, and the only reason it wasn't infallable is because i wouldn't let the probability of any move drop to 0. But with only 11 possible board states, it made for a very easy introduction into learning programs vs. trying to teach it 300-some board states and how to recognize reflections and rotations.

  • @prestont1007
    @prestont1007 Před 6 lety

    This is great matt. Nice job

    • @standupmaths
      @standupmaths  Před 6 lety

      +Preston T Thanks! I’m very proud of this video.

  • @danielleanderson6371
    @danielleanderson6371 Před 6 lety +250

    The irony of it honing in on center moves is that if you know what you're doing, corners are much better, but I doubt this thing is capable of thinking ahead, since a poorly-played corner game is much more likely to lose than any center game.

    • @madhuragrawal5685
      @madhuragrawal5685 Před 6 lety +27

      That's not actually true, is it? Is there some way for us to play multiplayer tic tac Toe online so we can talk about this?

    • @Ecl1psed276
      @Ecl1psed276 Před 6 lety +40

      Actually I believe Danielle was right.
      If you start in a corner, your opponent had better play in the center, otherwise you can always beat them if you play correctly. Lots of people don't know that, so you can often beat people by going in the corner.
      If you start in a center, your opponent had better play in the corner. This is more widely known by most people, so you are more likely to end up with a draw in this case.
      And finally, just don't start on the side. It is possible to win in this case, but you probably won't unless your opponent makes a dumb move or something like that.

    • @computerfis
      @computerfis Před 6 lety +9

      puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/30/what-is-the-optimal-first-move-in-tic-tac-toe

    • @AshleyFrankland
      @AshleyFrankland Před 6 lety +28

      MENACE works on a natural selection type system, so given enough opportunity it would eventually be able to avoid losing to a strong corner game.

    • @ljfaag
      @ljfaag Před 6 lety +1

      But it has the first move, so it probably won't find that strategy

  • @utl94
    @utl94 Před 6 lety +150

    8:32 "This must be what procreating feel like." Lol.

    • @matterwiz1689
      @matterwiz1689 Před 6 lety +16

      Classic mathematitian

    • @KoneSkirata
      @KoneSkirata Před 6 lety +1

      Pretty sure he said "proof-creating" :'D

    • @npc6817
      @npc6817 Před 4 lety

      when you've gone too far down the nerd hole you start referring to your machine learning algorithms as "your babies"

  • @half_pixel
    @half_pixel Před 6 lety +1

    Love the music in this one!

  • @thelbmethod7956
    @thelbmethod7956 Před 6 lety

    Love this channel

  • @guilhermekobori3155
    @guilhermekobori3155 Před 6 lety +5

    Is there a reasoning behind the rewarding distribution being +3 win, +1 draw and -1 loss?

    • @gordonrichardson2972
      @gordonrichardson2972 Před 6 lety +3

      Guilherme Kobori I've seen that ratio in other simulations. Its probably the smallest set of prime integers that converge nicely, without wild gyrations, or risk of dying prematurely.

  • @partynchill6455
    @partynchill6455 Před 5 lety +7

    From now on Ill be counting things in "metric universes" xD

  • @davidjackson2114
    @davidjackson2114 Před 6 lety +2

    Great fun, I did this at school at the end of the 1970's also inspired by the brilliant Martin Gardner :)

  • @cristinaalexe7454
    @cristinaalexe7454 Před 2 lety

    This is brilliant, both the principle and its use at a science festival!

  • @kavigollamudi
    @kavigollamudi Před 6 lety +60

    Not a Parker Pile of matchboxes then?

    • @Jakromha
      @Jakromha Před 6 lety

      It kinda is, because it's playing centre instead of corner.

  • @harshzhoshi
    @harshzhoshi Před 6 lety +4

    What happens if Menace plays Menace?
    Edit: Also, extremely sensitive to initial conditions!

  • @fredg8328
    @fredg8328 Před 6 lety

    I saw this a long time ago in a french science magazine. Thank you very much to bring back this memory. I always thought it was from Von Neumann

    • @standupmaths
      @standupmaths  Před 6 lety +1

      +Fred G Glad I could remind you! Michie was the same era as Von Neumann but was over in Bletchley Park during WWII.

  • @haxxx0rz
    @haxxx0rz Před 5 lety +3

    1:16 "... the box that matches".
    I see a connection.

  • @ge2719
    @ge2719 Před 6 lety +17

    if the first box runs out surely the solution is the put one of each bead back in and keep going?

    • @GEM4sta
      @GEM4sta Před 6 lety

      Unsure of whether this would work, since you also removed beads further down the tree. I don't really want to think about it though.

    • @Benny_Blue
      @Benny_Blue Před 6 lety

      GEM4sta And there might also be a halting problem here - how could it self diagnose to know what forfeits are justified, and what forfeits are not?

    • @youtubeuniversity3638
      @youtubeuniversity3638 Před 6 lety +3

      Simple: Forfeit means loss, so it shouldn't forfeit at any point.

    • @cmck362
      @cmck362 Před 6 lety

      By forfeit I think it's meant that there are no beads in the box. That indicates to the stack of matchboxes that all moves and their continuations are losing in that position therefore the game is lost. Basically a forfeit.
      If you relate that to chess it doesn't matter if it's a mate in 1 or a mate in 5. Either way the game is over so don't waste my time making me play out a formality. Basically you should resign/forfeit. At least then you can say that you saw the mate.

    • @eugenecbell
      @eugenecbell Před 6 lety

      I have never seen anyone forfeit a game of Tick-Tack-Toe. I say never give up.

  • @MasterHigure
    @MasterHigure Před 6 lety +30

    10:11 "Metric universes"

    • @Zero-ks3pc
      @Zero-ks3pc Před 6 lety +3

      MasterHigure a ‘metric’ is a generic term for measurement, the ‘metric system’ is the standard units for a distance using meters. So you can have metric smoots, metric universes, metric Pomeranians and it is referring to the standard set by the companion word. Metric meters I guess would be more accurate but not necessary as it is the common use and when not speaking of it, you add the secondary defining word to define the standard you are using.

    • @boltstrikes429
      @boltstrikes429 Před 6 lety

      What a Parker square of a measurement unit

  • @koenbobeldijk
    @koenbobeldijk Před 6 lety

    Was watching old QI episodes and saw you, cool to see you on my favorite program

  • @rebeccaanne3083
    @rebeccaanne3083 Před 5 lety

    This is wonderful!

  • @siekensou77
    @siekensou77 Před 6 lety +6

    tic tac would have been more interesting esp cuz you can reward the winner with a tic tac

    • @RichardDamon
      @RichardDamon Před 3 lety

      Yes, that was my thought, if the player won, let them have one of the tic tacs that was drawn.

  • @Toreno13
    @Toreno13 Před 6 lety +6

    I wouldn't call those matchboxes sentient. The matchboxes simply store the learned information, the one doing the learning here is actually the human using the matchboxes.

    • @standupmaths
      @standupmaths  Před 6 lety +10

      +Toreno13 What if a different human did each move for MENACE? They would not even have to be told why they are getting a bead and drawing a circle, just the steps to follow. Would you say the crowd of humans involved are learning even though no one person knew what they were doing?

    • @Toreno13
      @Toreno13 Před 6 lety +1

      standupmaths yes, with "humans doing the learning" I meant, that they are the process which is responsible for the distribution of colored beads in each matchbox in the end. Or the instructions themselves are the process that's doing the learning. Like for a processor executing instructions (itself not knowing what it's actually doing), and the memory (where the information of the matchboxes is stored), I wouldn't say that the memory is sentient, but the processor is doing the learning and storing the progress in memory.

    • @MrCmon113
      @MrCmon113 Před 5 lety +2

      I don't think this system is conscious, but your reason given is rather silly. Whether machine learning happens via metal wires or humans counting beads is irrelevant.

    • @ssrreevvaadd
      @ssrreevvaadd Před 3 lety

      I would agree it’s not sentient. To me the term machine “learning” implies sentience as I suppose it does to most people outside of computer science. Industries have a tendency to develop their own terms as a way to raise the barrier of entry and it can lead to real miscommunication with the public at large.

  • @VFella
    @VFella Před 3 lety +1

    I made one a lot of time ago.
    This is amazing as it demonstrates the very basics of what we call "Artificial Intelligence" or Machine Learning.

  • @jjohn1234
    @jjohn1234 Před 5 lety

    Enjoyed it!

  • @badelementofstyle5238
    @badelementofstyle5238 Před 4 lety +4

    It seems like a little part of you died when you called it "Tic Tac Toe"

  • @CormacMacCormac
    @CormacMacCormac Před 6 lety +57

    the only problem is every game of tic tac toe is a draw, unless one person is an idiot.

    • @ilya8914
      @ilya8914 Před 6 lety +3

      CormacMacCormac IKR

    • @minecraftermad
      @minecraftermad Před 5 lety

      @@ilya8914 worst game ever... i play the infinte version tho with the one who has a 5 in a row wins

    • @garychap8384
      @garychap8384 Před 4 lety +3

      You know a person is an idiot if they don't :
      - place their opening mark in the corner when starting,
      or
      - or the centre when going second.
      Anything else, betrays a complete lack of strategy... The corner square IS the strongest _(the centre square is poisonous and prevents hidden forks)_ ... but almost nobody realises this.
      If you make a rule that nobody can take the centre until they have a mark on the board, then every game can be won by force.

    • @anandsuralkar2947
      @anandsuralkar2947 Před 2 lety

      true and thats why i dont even count it as a game its just game for kids when u grow up it seems useless

    • @ShortNecked_GreenGiraffe
      @ShortNecked_GreenGiraffe Před 2 lety

      @@garychap8384 oh YES! i was hoping someone else realised! (idk but almost everyone i play with still plays the centre first it's annoying... haha i got bored once while waiting in the paediatrician back when i was 13 or something so i just started playing with myself)

  • @ThreeLetters3
    @ThreeLetters3 Před 6 lety

    Best thing I've ever watched, I gotta try doin this myself

  • @frankharr9466
    @frankharr9466 Před 6 lety

    For go, that is an insane number of boxes.
    That was so much fun!

  • @pkeshish
    @pkeshish Před 6 lety +16

    HOW ABOUT A NICE GAME OF CHESS?

  • @MrSimpsondennis
    @MrSimpsondennis Před 6 lety +4

    but, if you start with 1-1-1 in each box, doesn't that completely erase an option upon losing? instead of just lowering the odds?
    Also, Menace going 2nd should result in more interesting results, since the opening move is a variable (humans don't always start center), so the countermove will have more variety and as such the result may vary more.

    • @damienporter5345
      @damienporter5345 Před 6 lety +2

      But only the last box contains just 1 of each bead. Which is fine as a loss from there should be discarded immediately. The ealier boxes contain multiple copies of each bead.

    • @joshuarosen6242
      @joshuarosen6242 Před 6 lety

      @Damien Porter While that would make perfect sense, did he say so? If so, I missed that bit.

    • @damienporter5345
      @damienporter5345 Před 6 lety

      Joshua Rosen I don't think he says it, but it is in the discription that he links to.

    • @joshuarosen6242
      @joshuarosen6242 Před 6 lety +1

      Damien Porter Which I didn't read. Thank you, I now shall.

  • @benjamins2683
    @benjamins2683 Před 6 lety

    Hey Matt I wrote a programm in c# which simulates your matchbox MENACE. Its mostly a replica of the matchboxes but I made some adjustments like a lower bound on how many different beed from each color stay in the boxes so that it cant die. I also added an auto-learn function where MENACE playes against himself and learns that way.

  • @DanielPowell9992
    @DanielPowell9992 Před 5 lety +2

    Now I want to get back into my attempt at programming a neural network into a MUD engine... I mean, thinking in terms of my favorite (PennMUSH), I have rooms (containers that players and items can occupy) and exits which connect rooms. All object types have programmable attributes....and those could be weighted values. Such as "likelihood that this exit is used by a wandering object when it picks one at random" (a rat, maybe). But tic-tac-toe would be a much easier to start with...and the immersive quality of a MUD could make for some fun roleplay effects. A rat maze, however, would be way more inline with the dungeon crawler intention of a MUD.

  • @moogthedog2816
    @moogthedog2816 Před 6 lety +11

    "It's 10 to the 27 metric universes across?"
    What about the old imperial universes?

    • @alexwang982
      @alexwang982 Před 5 lety

      moogthedog
      *imperial March plays*

  • @MikeOxolong
    @MikeOxolong Před 6 lety +10

    I thought, that the best way is to start with a corner.

    • @kalebbruwer
      @kalebbruwer Před 6 lety

      Tazer Of you do it right, but it is very unlikely to stumble across it by chance. Watch 3blue1brown's videos on the topic.

    • @SuperGarryGamer
      @SuperGarryGamer Před 5 lety

      I actually discovered it :D

  • @nemianyamele2265
    @nemianyamele2265 Před 6 lety

    hey Matt!!! I Love your videos! I just wanted to let you know just a little bit of feedback that I had. I've watched every one of your videos on this channel, but today was the first time i had come across your second channel, (YAYYY MORE MATHS!!!) i feel like you ought to do more to advertise your second channel cos the content there is just as mad as the content you have here! People are missing out on some quality maths LIT-NESS!!!..... ...
    .... apart from that, your stuff is amazing (coz apart from maths, what else is?) Keep up the fun work!
    N.

  • @owez08
    @owez08 Před 6 lety

    I'm glad a video about machine learning was finally able to tell me how it is programmed to learn, at least at a basic level. (I know I could have googled it but I couldn't be bothered most of the time that it came up)

  • @rohitraghunathan
    @rohitraghunathan Před 6 lety +8

    8:32 "This must be what procreating feels like"
    Oh Matt! I pity your better half.

  • @AlexiLaiho227
    @AlexiLaiho227 Před 6 lety +50

    really disappointed neither katie nor matt said "link in the dooblydoo"

  • @kailenlee33
    @kailenlee33 Před měsícem

    I love the derision with which he says "or Tic-Tac-Toe".

  • @Kaixo
    @Kaixo Před 6 lety +1

    Wow, this is, in a way, machine learning brought outside of the machine!! I am currently doing a project on Neural Networks for school and this fits so perfectly well with that project! It basically is machine learning! Love it, never thought it would be possible with matchboxes tho...

  • @danjtitchener
    @danjtitchener Před 6 lety +15

    So you wanted to make matchboxes learn to win noughts and crosses but it only learnt to draw? That's a real Parker Square of a machine learning routine...

    • @kellel5610
      @kellel5610 Před 5 lety +2

      Daniel Titchener tic tac toe is a sufficiently easy game that each player can force a draw or win provided that one of the players uses the best strategy

    • @MrCmon113
      @MrCmon113 Před 5 lety +2

      You cannot win. The game is so simple that a human without a severe mental disability will always force a draw, no matter how much more intelligent or skilled you are.

  • @robertofontiglia4148
    @robertofontiglia4148 Před 6 lety +4

    "This must be what procreating feels like" -- Oh Matt...

  • @celia6598
    @celia6598 Před 6 lety

    I like your videos Matt!

  • @tostupidforname
    @tostupidforname Před 6 lety

    nice Idea i think it is really good to explain the concept of machine learning

  • @gregorymaynard3089
    @gregorymaynard3089 Před 6 lety +21

    tic tacs learning tic tac toe tactics, has science gone too far?

    • @41-Haiku
      @41-Haiku Před 6 lety

      I say it hasn't gone too far enough!

    • @squeakybunny2776
      @squeakybunny2776 Před 6 lety +2

      Tic tac toe tactics😄😄 oh man I love that

  • @unvergebeneid
    @unvergebeneid Před 6 lety +13

    "This is what procreation must feel like." 😂😂😂 Wow, this is one of the saddest sentences I've ever heard!

  • @Zalied
    @Zalied Před 6 lety

    people knowing how to play and it being a solved game definitely makes it tougher. it would be interesting to see this sytem vs only children (people who almost never have strategy) or a version of itself that does the other side

  • @linga42
    @linga42 Před 3 lety

    It's the first time I've listened to drum 'n bass in 5 years. Thanks Stand-up Maths. I needed that.

  • @Parax77
    @Parax77 Před 6 lety +11

    "If the first box runs out, it has learnt to resign on the first move, and that is Bad......" BUT Wargames taught us that is the correct move!
    czcams.com/video/6DGNZnfKYnU/video.html

    • @oz_jones
      @oz_jones Před 6 lety

      *only winning move, not necessarily the best

  • @robertnorth5725
    @robertnorth5725 Před 6 lety +4

    SOOOOOOOOOO, ....... at the end of the match,the inanimate match wins the match!!?!?!?!?!?!?!
    That's MATCHLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    (& menace says ; "YOU'VE MET YOUR MATCH!!!!!!!")
    hahaahaaaaa

  • @ExistentialistDasein
    @ExistentialistDasein Před 6 lety

    This video was wonderful.

    • @standupmaths
      @standupmaths  Před 6 lety

      +Existentialist Dasein Glad you enjoyed it! It was a lot of effort to make but I thought totally worth it.

    • @ExistentialistDasein
      @ExistentialistDasein Před 6 lety

      Yeah, I've noticed that in your videos; you really do put an effort into making them. I also make videos from time to time (I'm a philosopher-nothing as cool as a mathematician), and I know how frustratingly tiresome the process can be:)
      By the way, I admire your enthusiasm about maths. I guess that's what motivates you to overcome the frustration involved in making the videos.

  • @sagarramchandani3139
    @sagarramchandani3139 Před 6 lety

    Oooooo that is so cool! Keep up the good work

  • @AashishNehete
    @AashishNehete Před 6 lety +14

    Matt Parker for Doctor Who anyone?

  • @ShinySwalot
    @ShinySwalot Před 6 lety +9

    Why are Matt and Katie always together?

    • @computerfis
      @computerfis Před 6 lety +2

      They work together.
      "Katie works for Think Maths with Matt Parker, giving talks in schools around the country about engaging off-curriculum mathematics. She also does admin and project management for Think Maths"....
      source: www.katiesteckles.co.uk/

    • @Richard_is_cool
      @Richard_is_cool Před 6 lety +5

      They are Parker married. Katie even Parker took his surname (which means she didn't).

    • @joeshoesmith
      @joeshoesmith Před 6 lety

      Shiny Swalot I hear their subjects are similar somehow but I have no idea how.

    • @standupmaths
      @standupmaths  Před 6 lety +8

      +Shiny Swalot We’re maths buddies!

    • @alphamikeomega5728
      @alphamikeomega5728 Před 6 lety +1

      To learn what procreating feels like.

  • @gubucker
    @gubucker Před 6 lety

    really clever! congrats

  • @owendeheer5893
    @owendeheer5893 Před 6 lety

    this looks amazing :)

  • @geogeo3644
    @geogeo3644 Před 6 lety +3

    To be honest this made me truly grasp neural networks. Thanks

    • @Marconius6
      @Marconius6 Před 6 lety +4

      This isn't really neural networks, I'm sorry to say. It's just basic learning where the machine is aware of all the possible states ahead of time, and just assigns values to them based on past experiences.
      Neural networks are kinda based on this idea, but a bit more abstracted; they don't look at individual game states, and there are multiple 'layers' that each process information in a different way, influenced by their previous layer.

    • @standupmaths
      @standupmaths  Před 6 lety +1

      +Geogeo 3 Glad I could help! Remember this is only a first-order approximation and actual neural networks are much more complicated. But nothing a lot of matchboxes couldn’t do.

    • @TakeoFR
      @TakeoFR Před 6 lety +1

      That's close to Q-learning (with discount factor equal zero). A Neural network would be different.

  • @matthewg.6262
    @matthewg.6262 Před 6 lety +18

    I want all those matchboxes to be lit up at once. I feel like that would be so satisfying

    • @41-Haiku
      @41-Haiku Před 6 lety +5

      But... no matches...

    • @Khronosian
      @Khronosian Před 6 lety +3

      How would you decide which goes first, and the opening move?

    • @kyokkyuu
      @kyokkyuu Před 6 lety +2

      There's a Mythbusters episode about that. Ended with them lighting 1 million match heads at once. I think you'll enjoy it.

    • @OneDerscoreOneder
      @OneDerscoreOneder Před 6 lety

      Can a match box? No but a tin can

    • @rcb3921
      @rcb3921 Před 6 lety

      Link to the Mythbusters match-head bomb: czcams.com/video/poV6lc2b070/video.html

  • @Eleni_E
    @Eleni_E Před 6 lety +1

    As a future maths teacher with experience in museum design, this makes me itch to go get a big pile of matchboxes and build one of these stateside....

  • @BrendanGuildea
    @BrendanGuildea Před 6 lety

    Love it!!! Well done team!
    Link in the description... lol!
    Plan to come to Dublin?

    • @standupmaths
      @standupmaths  Před 6 lety

      +Brendan Niall Guildea I always have fun visiting Dublin and will be back one day! I’m sure Science Gallery would have me again.