Jail can also lead those who have committed great atrocities to being saved. Whether it be Islam or Christianity, Jail has saved many brothers lives. Brothers who would have otherwise died on the street as a soldier in a war against the inevitable. Jail is whatever the human mind experiencing it can maintain.
This is what happens when everything in the economy is about profit. There should be parts of the government which fund psychiatric hospitals, so that ordinary people can be treated and taken care there for free. If it's only about profit, you won't have such facilities, because the poor can't pay thousands to stay there.
Cool who funds the government and have you ever looked up how much money goes to fund things like Medicare and Medicaid. If you aren't in the US look up the one for your country in most counties it is one of the biggest if not the biggest expenses they have.
@@krystelhardesty9960 suuuure…. Besides the billions going towards the military. The US has a choice to cap insulin (that can be made for $46) but instead it’s sold for 6k, everything is price gouged in the medical sector.
Dude, NYC spends billions a year on the subway system alone. Profit isn't the issue. The issue is mismanagement of funds and inept leadership. Having the government take over will not improve anything. If anything, it'll make things worse.
As someone who works in healthcare for the past 17 years, you have severely underestimated the number of mentally ill probably by 90%. Yes I think we should bring back asylums. The problem is they were killed before psychiatric care reached a high level. As a result, people remember the negative care, but now they doomed them to little or no care. It's more expensive today and people are dying. America will probably never take mental health seriously.
Not entirely true. The United States has experienced two main waves of deinstitutionalisation. The first wave began in the 1950s and targeted people with mental illness. The second wave began roughly 15 years later and focused on individuals who had been diagnosed with a developmental disability. Loren Mosher argues that deinstitutionalisation fully began in the 1970s and was due to financial incentives like SSI and Social Security Disability, rather than after the earlier introduction of psychiatric drugs. President John F. Kennedy had a special interest in the issue of mental health because his sister, Rosemary, had incurred brain damage after being lobotomised at the age of 23. His administration sponsored the successful passage of the Community Mental Health Act, one of the most important laws that led to deinstitutionalization. The movement continued to gain momentum during the Civil Rights Movement. The 1965 amendments to Social Security shifted about 50% of the mental health care costs from states to the federal government, motivating state governments to promote deinstitutionalization. The 1970s saw the founding of several advocacy groups, including Liberation of Mental Patients, Project Release, Insane Liberation Front, and the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI).
@@southie3177 ... Because the US societal ethos is 'Dog eat Dog' and 'Walk off that broken leg' .... Look at the US guns culture. To accept that the entire population is mentally delusional. Americans are force fed from childhood the whole 'American Dream' drivel. That America is great when it clearly isn't. In N Europe we take the view that people who do not fit into society, is our fault, all of us. We as a society have failed them and we must help them. Imagine that in America, even before a Trump Dictatorship. My wife is a Dr of Psychology and a previous clinician. Not everyone can be helped voluntarily. There is a marked amount of people who have variations of mental illnesses where the illness itself literally tells them to stop taking their medicine and interacting with professionals. The illness does not want to be cured. The guy on here who is mentally ill and thinks all people can run loose ... is incorrect.
I thought it was common knowledge that the U.S. started closing Asylums in the 1960s and ramped up closures in the 1980s. During this time the privatized prison system that we know today, took off. Funding moved away from helping the mentally challenged and towards opioids. Thus, creating the current opioid epidemic and exorbitant healthcare costs we face today.
The government stopped funding mental health treatment and started funding opioids? Sounds like you have a very elementary understanding of certain aspects of the issues but that’s just nonsensical. Also, I would bet there’s more funding of “mental health” today than ever before in history, though what exactly is being funded and it’s effectiveness, is highly debatable. Which gets to the root of the problem which is government incompetence and blatant corruption.
@SYSTEM__32 - I remember when the public funded psychiatric hospitals were closed. The first thing noticed was men wandering on downtown streets, swearing and threatening people, some talking gibberish. I did notice some years later there were some criminally insane people being housed at the old hospital, only because I worked in health care and turned down a job there.
@@frankboyer1490 Okay, so prisons and asylums are not exactly the same. In the Supreme Court case of *Vital v. Jones, 445 U.S. 480 (1980)* The Supreme Court ruled that Psychiatric hospitals are *worse* than prisons" Involuntary admission to a mental hospital is a deprivation of individual liberty, lacks due process, and not afforded counsel nor any of the same protections that are afforded even to prisoners. Yet, it's your belief that non-consensual medical treatment and forced drugging in a locked facility unable to escape is a good thing, right ?!?
Then, there's still the problem of obtaining, educated, compassionate staff members to run these facilities and treat patients, not simply house them until they die. We've all seen "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" or at least read the book. Nobody wants to go back to those days, hiring those kinds of folks, who think nothing of mistreating patients.
As a RN who has worked internationally and in all areas of healthcare , there is a dire need for long term residential care of people with psychiatric illness. I always say that it continues to be the Untreated Epidemic . The Asylum system from the 50's did alot of good for many people in terms of giving them a safe place to live, oversight of medication administration , occupations (such as farming, carpentry , crafting , laundry) a healthy diet and protection and safety from exploitation. Heartbreaking to see so many struggling on the streets , living in despicable situations with their untreated psychiatric disease.
They weren’t safe from exploitation or abuse, many were taken advantage of by the workers in the hospital. We need to something better than Asylums. Thinking we can go back to the Asylum system without a strong patient right protection system is hubris.
As another RN, we need more long term mental health facilities with SAFE STAFFING and adequate resources. SO many people need help and end up in the legal system instead.
The US cut way back on mental health care. It’s truly insane that there isn’t more offered. It’s a hard thing, because what happens is that after people are released, they’d often stop the meds that made them well, and the cycle starts again. I don’t think people should be “locked up,” but there’s zero support for those we know need support. Who actually aren’t well enough to keep a job, or earn enough to take care of basic needs. For those who refuse medication, there does need to be social support. It’s hard to balance someone’s freedom, with the damage they sometimes do in society. It’s truly a complex issue.
Well said. The issue is extraordinarily complex. And it is compounded by an increasing reliance on privatized corporations lacking in oversight and basic standards for ethics and quality of care. The ultimate responsibility of an institution should be to its patients, its staff, their families, and their communities. When the responsibility for the care, safety, and well-being of the most vulnerable people in our communities is given to corporate boardrooms and shareholders, we have failed to protect them-as well as the staff, their families and their communities-from the worst kind of exploitation. 💜
The US prison system causes more problems than it helps. Recidivism is so high because we focus on punishment rather than rehabilitation and then we kick people back on the streets where their criminal record leaves them with very little job opportunity, difficulty finding residence, etc. and then they go back in. On top of that, some of the people we punish need mental health help more than they need punishment. Unfortunately like many other things in this country such as racial justice, foreign policy, immigration to name a few, we have gone so far down the wrong road that there’s not really a way back. If you just turn on a dime and change it, then because of how the problem has been exacerbated the consequences would be even worse at least for a while so there is no easy answer to fix anymore. Somebody smarter than me has to fix it. It’s broken clearly, but idk what you can even do at this point other than build a time machine and nip it in the bud a long time ago.
The people can’t be rehabilitated we need to stop wasting billions of resources on lost causes they got themselves into their situation I’m not giving them any of my hard earned money to get them out because of their bad choices
Despite its issues, my great grandmother was in a state run asylum, despite some of the issues with Northern State, it was a mental facility in WA stats that provided work and treatment based balance to recovery, providing chances to work on their farm. once state run facilities were disbanded she was left with ZERO resources and ended up homeless. This resulted directly in the severe increase of homeless the end of a time and start of the deinstitutionalization movement Edit** the result of increased homelessness was directly the result of the deinstitutionalization movement
It’s all for insurance purposes. I worked at a psych facility and they would keep patients with better insurance longer and those with no or poor insurance, they would discharge pretty quick. Even the doctors knew some were still actively psychotic and would continue to discharge. We had frequent flyers also due to needing meds or housing and so it’s just a revolving door
Yup!! I worked at major university hospital in a psychiatric unit. The program I was specifically assigned to ended up getting shut down for this reason. The director of the program had been committing insurance fraud and toying with our patients’ well-beings! It’s greed and it’s disgusting.
@@smoove354and they owe more and more money each time they are arrested. Court costs and restitution fines and fees not to mention the lawyer(if that can even be afforded)
its not though. the cost to keep a “criminal”(most are just non violent drug offenders who mind their own business) in jail is so inflated its ridiculous. for a year its more than an average citizens income. Ask the prisoners if they feel like they’re costing tax payers 50k a year. every single one of them will say no. sadly this and every other hardship this country has created was done so to line the pockets of old whyte ppl smh… sometimes i hate it here
I think it was Kennedy that started to close the asylums and it all started with a book called “Christmas in Purgatory” that showed how evil these asylums were. But I think we need to bring them back (but do it right this time).
Never trust a government program with total control over the people inside they will medicate people without reason to get more funding. It becomes more than prison because you don't even have your mind locked up every which way. All government systems do atrocities to justify more funding always
the CEOs of American private prisons are some of the richest ppl in the world. and they’re only going to get richer now that they’ve paid the US supreme court to reverse roe vs wade. no access to abortions means more children born out of wedlock, which means more broken homes, which means more crime and the ones who vote for these kind of things also hate welfare programs. we have a population of the country who doesn’t think logically at all, who are motivated by emotions and are easily susceptible to propaganda and indoctrination. ironically these same ppl call anyone that doesn’t agree with them “sheep” and have no clue they’re turning sociopaths into billionaires. even more ironic, these ppl feel they relate to these billionaires, who wouldn’t even pxss on them if they were burning to death
we have mental institutions.... ive been to one... but the thing is its expensive... and if u dont have good insurance u cant get tghe help u need... we really do need to bring bk state or even federally funded mental health institutions
@@PHUCKUSA-z3l not even 1/2 the time tbh. and thats sad. the only reason i was able to go was bc my dad was a gov. worker so we had blue cross blue shield
When I was 18 I was on probation for a juvenille crime. I had to go back to JDC at 18, I am a normal citizen now, but recall how even 10 years ago, this was the case. Parents abandoned a chaotic 12 year old who would scream, bite, and on occasion, assault women. The jail put him on the gang unit with people who were going to be charged as adults at 17 for violent crimes. just stuck him in there. The parents gave up, and did not pick him up after his charges posted. No halfway house would take him due to his behavior. I think about him often, hoping he is alive and well. I have no idea what the system did to him, but he was such a good kid when you got to talk to him. Hope you are okay Chelson!
Does anyone else think this situation is too familiar to the joker movie?? 🤔 Half of the homeless here in Sacramento county are veterans and could qualify for help and care but without any address they are caught in a nasty neverending circle and jails are now the defacto mental health facilities for many municipal settings. Veterans have earned this care but are just ignored like other homeless mentally ill. Most people don't realize that prisoners are the ONLY PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT HAVE THE THE RIGHT TO ACCESS MEDICAL CARE!! Thats why jails are forced to provide mental health care to inmates in thier custody. A sad situation that is only getting worse and putting more people at risk of getting hurt or killed my this neglected population in our communities.🤔 A disabled US Army Veteran and former VA employee in Sacramento California..
Any healthcare/Mental health in Jails and Prisons is disgusting. Example: Crack a tooth? Pull it. Small Cavity causing constant pain? Pull it. The services are not done for the people but the institution. This is very important to acknowledge.
@@ronswansonsdog2833 Let's be real, in jail/prison you are considered subhuman and given a pantomime form of "healthcare" and certainly no form of mental healthcare, in fact the american penal institutions are sadistic and purposefully cruel, designed to drive anyone insane.
Florida has the Baker Act which will allow police to hospitalize an individual showing signs of mental distress involuntary. The problem is the police themselves are not trained to handle the mentally ill properly. One of my school friends who was suffering from mental distress was shot and killed by police in South Florida.
Graves replacing the hospitals will be the next thing. You dont get to find out what's wrong with your health until you're in the grave. American healthcare, am i right?
@@slowbro1337 here in California debt is written off every 7 years but you have to ignore everything they throw at you because it will restart the timer even on last day of that 7 years...but.not fun not having access to credit or to rent an apartment lmao
Both parties refuse to authorize mental institutions because of the horrid abuse in the 60s and 70s. So instead, people with mental health problems are sent to jail when they hurt people. We need states to act if congress wont.
God I just can’t watch this stuff any more I get so raging mad at how feckless America is…. It’s out of hand and the way we treat the sick and addicted is just cruel, anyone who’s had to deal with a loved one knows what a helpless nightmare everyone goes through… it’s outrageously insulting to humanity …
My heart breaks for this family! The mental health system continues to fail people, day after day. Unfortunately, I have an aunt who the hospitals kept releasing, saying she wasn’t a danger to herself or others… I remember that day like it was yesterday. I told my mom that she didn’t look right at all. She was just sitting at the kitchen table, staring out the window. I told my mom that something bad is going to happen and that she should be brought back to the hospital. My mom and grandmother, told me they won’t do anything, which I understand their frustration. She had just been released a week prior. I left to go back home as I was just visiting. My family’s life was forever changed that night. My aunt had stabbed someone that night and killed him. She truly believed that this man stole her inheritance from my grandfather, who was still alive at this time. She had gotten mad at my grandmother who refused to buy her beer. She hitchhiked and went to see a friend whose brother was visiting. They were drinking and doing drugs when she began to hallucinate. She stabbed him 17 times! She was sentenced to 27 years. My aunt was a kind person who would help anyone if they needed it.
My main concern would be abuse in facilities like these. I worked in an old folks home for adults with special needs and was appalled at how some of the staff treated these people. I reported like 5 people in my first week alone. I was also hospitalized myself as a young kid and have experienced first hand how staff treats patients i swear i came out worse than how i came in. If i could trust a facility like this could actually do more help than harm I'd be all for it, but until there's a system in place that would allow these people to be fully protected under the states care i think its a bad idea.
As someone whom has lived with a family member that has mental illness I can tell you this cycle is terrifying for the family. Especially when they are violent during an outburst. This family member has destroyed every place we allowed them to live. Literally broken down the walls, broken the appliances, toliets, sinks, windows, stolen from us, gotten in physical altercations, caused damage to our vehicles, called the cops and cps on us. This last time she actually called the fbi and they responded to her by sending local pd to talk to us. This last episode I was home alone with them as everyone else was gone on a vacation. I was so terrified every night that she was going to murder me. She shaved all her hair and all night I could hear her banging on the vehicles with a leather belt. She carried around a huge rock and snapped the belt at me. She took all our towels and put them in the yard. The cops couldn't do anything until she threatened me. I was carrying my phone everywhere with the cops on speed dial. I was worried she would kill me in front of my 4 year old daughter. My daughter was absolutely terrified she was going to hurt myself and her. Right now she is inpatient because the fbi phone call helped us get her into involuntary treatment. I am dreading the day she is released and fear someday she will kill us in our sleep.
Wrong. The United States has experienced two main waves of deinstitutionalisation. The first wave began in the 1950s and targeted people with mental illness. The second wave began roughly 15 years later and focused on individuals who had been diagnosed with a developmental disability. Loren Mosher argues that deinstitutionalisation fully began in the 1970s and was due to financial incentives like SSI and Social Security Disability, rather than after the earlier introduction of psychiatric drugs. President John F. Kennedy had a special interest in the issue of mental health because his sister, Rosemary, had incurred brain damage after being lobotomised at the age of 23. His administration sponsored the successful passage of the Community Mental Health Act, one of the most important laws that led to deinstitutionalization. The movement continued to gain momentum during the Civil Rights Movement. The 1965 amendments to Social Security shifted about 50% of the mental health care costs from states to the federal government, motivating state governments to promote deinstitutionalization. The 1970s saw the founding of several advocacy groups, including Liberation of Mental Patients, Project Release, Insane Liberation Front, and the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI).
This is what happens when the USA doesn't focus on helping men and giving them the self belief of being needed in society. Mental illness is no joke, we need to build a platform which will give men & also women the opportunity to connect and reach out for help. This is a serious issue and it's growing
The issue is the people are demanding resources we can’t afford to spare or just don’t have why should we spend billions on a group of people who clearly aren’t capable of being productive members of society and not I don’t know spend it somewhere more important like in finding a cure for cancer or making more stuff
I'm a social worker who works with formerly homeless people in a supportive housing program. Almost all of my clients have serious mental illness, and yet with case management most of them manage to stay housed and out of trouble. Their lives aren't perfect and they don't always go to their doctor's appointments but they are absolutely not dangerous and most just need a place to lay their head at night. It makes me furious to see this false dichotomy be presented as the only ways forward: live a wretched life without sufficient social supports or receive a certain level of care along with incarceration and the abuse that inevitably comes with it. When they talk about the people with serious mental illness who will not engage with mental health programs, they do not acknowledge how hard it is for someone to make and keep doctor's appointments when they don't have a roof over their head. People that I work with will engage with mental health services when they are housed a whole lot more than when they are on the street. And even when they don't, they have their own space to have a crisis in, and they rarely pose a danger to the public. They also engage with services more when those services come to them at their apartments, a service that is extremely rare. This is ironic, given that people are talking about paying for asylums. Why are people only willing to give food and shelter to people with severe mental illness when it's involuntary? We have never in the history of the United States made these services truly accessible on a voluntary basis, so it is absurd to say that people simply do not want services. This is a really ignorant piece and I expected better from Vice. Instead of truly examining the subject they interviewed a couple people and put out a hit piece that looks a lot more like Fox News than the journalism I would expect from them.
Can u imagine having a beach house and not selling it to save your son! He must feel so let down and abandoned! He needs a nurse and a home not a hospital!
That’s kind of what I was wondering about. But I think it might be hard to let him stay there, as they likely can’t afford private live-in a nurse for him nor can they tend to him themselves. I hope they can one day live together again and get it figured out.
His psychosis is triggered by drug use. They release him after he has been sober long enough to come back to normality. He needs rehabilitation all around.
Where I live in the US, there are plenty of psych hospitals, but they're all acute. I don't know of any long-term facility in my entire state that's not specifically for drug rehab, and even then people are shoved out as soon as the insurance runs out. I personally was a revolving door patient for a while because I needed care for longer than a week but it simply wasn't available to me.
I can attest to the wide spread, cyclically natured health care system, as my mother struggles with severe manic bipolar disorder and has been in and out of facilities for the past 6 years. A roller coaster of hope, following despair following hope is an analogy I resonate with. I just want my mom to get help.
My dad was a corrections officer when he was a young man. He only did it for a years. He was at a small jail and said most of the people were mentally ill. A lot of them would break laws so they could have somewhere to stay and have food.
That is still going on and not because they are mentally ill but because shortages of housing or landlords/property management won’t rent to them even if they have section 8 housing. Freaking chaotic!
@@rekardourxua3082 Yes he said he met a lot of people he were homeless as well and that was just the only place that they felt they could get help and basic needs
Mental health issues > drug and alcohol dependency > poverty > proclivity towards crime > prison > unemployability > homelessness > health issues > resentment towards society > isolation > violence > worsening mental health > ... ... ...
This is heartening. In my country, mental health care is for those who can afford it, 😢 while those who can are left to leave on the streets and either die like dogs or beg to survive.
We need to rebuild mental hospitals for the future. "An essential element that plays into the false equivocation of psychiatric illness and criminality is the incorrect labeling of all criminals as persons with mental illness. Society at large views behavior and conduct problems as a symptom of a psychological disorder, which has led to the false public perception that equates criminality with psychiatric illness. The high levels of reported mental illness in jail and prison populations are primarily due to false labeling of criminals as having a psychiatric illness. These figures are not always based on thorough medical and psychiatric evaluation and diagnosis, but rather as a result of social factors." AND "The closure of state psychiatric hospitals which began with the deinstitutionalization drive in 1960 forced many psychiatric patients on the streets, forced to fend for themselves.[6] As a result, these patients came into contact with the police and the courts more often. The situation is exacerbated by a lack of training and staffing in the court system, potentially accounting for persons with mental illness comprising an ever-larger fraction of the jail and prison population. Many of the symptoms of psychiatric illnesses are behaviors considered antisocial or criminal such as wandering behavior.[7] The result has been the false perception of a causal relationship between psychiatric illness and criminality." "The most important and independent risk factor for criminality and violence among individuals with mental illness is a long-term substance use disorder.[10] In patients with a major psychiatric illness, comorbid substance use disorder, there is a four-fold increase in the risk of committing a crime or violence.[11] Studies have shown that the rise in violent crime committed by individuals with mental illness, may entirely be accounted for with a history of alcohol and/or drug use."
Is this even a question? Ever sense Reagan closed down the asylums. It’s only gotten worse. Although those asylums were also really terrible so it’s just transferred the terrible treatment
In answer to the question asked in the title, the short answer is yes. I've worked in prisons (both federal and state) as the Director of Nursing as well as a large inpatient psychiatric hospital on the east coast. Often times, judges will give a choice to the person in court before him or her; choose to go to either a psych facility or prison. Additionally, there is a large number of the prison population on psychiatric medications. There is no other choice right now.
I think we live in a society that is so individualistic that the idea of caring for our communities is a foreign concept. Everyone seems to think "it's not my problem" until something happens that affects them, and then they want someone ELSE to take care of it. I don't know what the solution is, but something needs to be done to help these poor people.
it's depressing to see, as someone who's mentally ill myself, that while i'm suffering but not yet homeless, i expect to end up being homeless & later incarcerated within the next decade or so. the centuries of dehumanization of mentally ill people, the political & economic hierarchies of this country that were always intended to protect owners of productive property, the wider social stigmas of being mentally ill among many other things i don't have the energy to get into are the reasons why mental health treatment in this country simply doesn't exist. the current economic situation here is only making it worse by shifting societial focus on the idea that this economic system that somehow can be "fixed" through legislation. it cannot be fixed, it will never actually work for you if you don't own productive property.
I have worked in the mental health field for over 25 years. For 20 years I worked at an amazing long-term psychiatric care facility with highly trained professionals and caring staff. We offered a safe, environment with healthy meals, education and job skills training. Staff ensured that the patients received all of their medications daily along with therapy. The facility closed 5 years ago due to budget cuts and a push to get the patients out into the community. Where are our former residents now? Some did well in the community, but many have moved from one group home to another while receiving minimal services. Sadly, others have died from lack of care or are living on the streets. There is absolutely a need for state funded long-term, in-patient mental health facilities. It's also important to remember that the availability of mental health services varies great from one community to the next and is especially lacking in rural America.
3300 arrests and 67% of those weren’t unique, but were arrests of the same 3% (97) of people proves that you shouldn’t make sweeping generalizations about crimes committed in any given community.
I'm a retired administrator from the Department of Corrections (DOC) in my state, as a warden in an all male maximum security facility. Most prisons now have full time mental health staff, including a full time psychiatrist. Over 30% of our inmates were on psychotropic medications, many of them violent. Prisons have been the new asylums for the past 20 years. Unfortunately, that means they've probably already seriously hurt or killed someone by this time. To make matters worse, these inmates are ruthlessly manipulated and abused by other inmates. Yes, we need asylums brought back.
ive been subjected to white torture everytime i went to county jail, 2 weeks each everytime i got locked up. because i have a mental health issue they place me in white room in paper clothes lights on 24/7 and fed me rice and chicken tenders in a white styrofoam box. the only people i heard were other people screaming nonstop, all day and night only screaming and howling, the psych doc would come every few days and say a few words. it was torture for no reason.. just torture
Rosenthal is a kook. If you are 1- harming yourself 2- harming others and/or 3- have such erratic behaviors that you cannot function in society i.e. hold down a job, socialize, learn a skill then you REQUIRE help. you are not in a state to consent and can be a threat to not only your family members but other people around you. now to be clear, that is not to say you are locked up for life. the goal is ongoing rehabilitation with ethics boards overseeing and reviewing data constantly. there is not only the possibility of physical threat but when you have disorders you are a drain on the resources of others, literally their time is no longer theirs b/c they have to attend to your issues. is that fair for that family BUT is it fair for you to be abandoned in the street, to go crazy in the elements and then attack people. this calls for a communal response in which we treat those with disorders and try to get them back into society under supervision and then fade ourselves away as best we can but with the option for them to seek help again if they need it or it is warranted.
This is why, as a mentally ill person, that lives with other mentally ill people, we need coercive treatments that are humane but still coercive. When I was at a very low point, I went to the nurse at my college because I was having terrible headaches. She asked me to go to the Asylum just behind the Medecine faculty after seeing my state. Of course, I didn't go. Getting to the Asylum was the last thing on my mind. Still I had many more psychosis and I wonder how my life would be if there was somebody that would have helped me and put me in a safe place. I just healed on my own but it took so long and I felt like I wasted time (I had no concept of time.). Some people are traumatized by being put inside an Asylum but there's so many that are left alone with their thoughts. There must be a better way that satisfies everybody.
@@mississipi1103 even if they are coerced and forced to do something they don't want to do they will still be left with their own thoughts this whole paragraph didn't make a single point.
I studied a lot about criminology, and the US just has far too many prisoners. It doesn’t help anybody. We need more support for people with mental issues.
Yes! As a paramedic I worked in two medium security prisons and both wardens told me upfront that 50% of the prisoners were mentally ill. They were correct
Yep, last year I attempted to take my own life. When I was found, I was checked into a hospital, stayed 2 days in the hospital then got charged with a felony for being found with prescription drugs that was not mine that I bought to try and take my own life, I have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder for 12 years, I was not offered help or anything, as soon as I was released from the hospital I was charged and held in jail for 3 months until I seen a judge then was sentenced to 90 days plus fines. Not once I was I asked about my mental health, receive my medication or anything. All we are in America is a money machine for whoever is in charge. America is not a country its a corporation. The only Human right you have in America is making money for the people above you
nice cottage. the idea is to help them BEFORE they commit any criminal offense, but in the US you consistently hear one political party say we need to do more, all while cutting any kind of funding that will help others.
The problem is twofold. Psychiatrists’ appointments are expensive, and once you add thousands a year in drugs, plus weekly therapy, and the average psychiatric patient is going to struggle with funds to cover their expenses. Plus, some individuals are willing to accept their diagnosis and take medication, but there are many individuals who refuse. Some people will stay on medications for years and then quit. There need to be social workers assigned to all of these individuals so they can intervene before something bad happens.
I worked for an institution during 1984 in CT it was particularly fed funded. We had all kinds activities and programs. The campus was like a beautiful college campus. They had own police, fire dept pools etc... I think deinstitutionalization was a big mistake. I have 2 sisters that have sczoiphenia one is 66 and the other one 55. They both think anything is wrong with them. There for they refuse to take medication. Both have graduated from college. I can't count how many times they been hospitalized and release with a treatment plan and medicaton. But after treatment they refuse to follow treatment plan including refusing to take medication I think they should be involuntary treatment and medication. They put my parents and me through hell. Missing , incarnation, unacceptable behavior, hoarding, leaving on the gass stove burning the pot until its charred black My parents passed away. They both had cancer. It was very stressful for my parents to live with my sisters. Which did not help my parents sickness. Now I have to bear the brunt alone
Worked at a dual diagnosis facility in the Phoenix inner city. More resources are definitely needed. But, they're far too lenient with violent mental illness offenders. They discharge violent offenders to the street and they do it again and it keeps happening until someone di3s.
This is very dangerous, that boy will kill someone one day. The cries for help are there but the system still keeps sending him back😢 Mental health issues are a serious problem and the system should look long and hard into it
How do his parents tolerate this?? Mine would have called the police and had me locked up immediately, no questions asked. I can’t believe how much people will put up with for their adult children.
Jail can make a sane person crazy, and make crazy people truly insane. Especially for the destitute.
Facts $$$
Great commentary!
Don’t do it
Three hots and a cot.
Jail can also lead those who have committed great atrocities to being saved. Whether it be Islam or Christianity, Jail has saved many brothers lives. Brothers who would have otherwise died on the street as a soldier in a war against the inevitable. Jail is whatever the human mind experiencing it can maintain.
I suspect most humans would suffer from poor mental health after being homeless for a year.
Bingo
From drug usage- not being homeless
@@gerardohtx207nah
I think most of it is drugs myself.
I would suspect that they got the poor mental health situation before being homeless
This is what happens when everything in the economy is about profit. There should be parts of the government which fund psychiatric hospitals, so that ordinary people can be treated and taken care there for free. If it's only about profit, you won't have such facilities, because the poor can't pay thousands to stay there.
Cool who funds the government and have you ever looked up how much money goes to fund things like Medicare and Medicaid. If you aren't in the US look up the one for your country in most counties it is one of the biggest if not the biggest expenses they have.
@@krystelhardesty9960 suuuure…. Besides the billions going towards the military.
The US has a choice to cap insulin (that can be made for $46) but instead it’s sold for 6k, everything is price gouged in the medical sector.
Not hospitals but robust community mental health
Dude, NYC spends billions a year on the subway system alone.
Profit isn't the issue. The issue is mismanagement of funds and inept leadership. Having the government take over will not improve anything. If anything, it'll make things worse.
We need more and better mental health services in the US
For that you need a functional medical system.
@@narxes For that you need a functional political system.
@@narxesfunctioning society
We had them. They were used for torture, and the people were abused.
We also should ban the weapons those people use to hurt people
As someone who works in healthcare for the past 17 years, you have severely underestimated the number of mentally ill probably by 90%.
Yes I think we should bring back asylums. The problem is they were killed before psychiatric care reached a high level. As a result, people remember the negative care, but now they doomed them to little or no care. It's more expensive today and people are dying. America will probably never take mental health seriously.
America creates the conditions that make Mental illnesses and has no plans on offering help.
most of your country looks insane from the outside, so eventually things will get so bad that y'all will have to take it seriously.
@@rongikeyeah 😂
As someone (insert whatever here). No originality in writing anymore
You worked in healthcare? That doesn’t validate your opinion.
Kind of late to be asking that question.. They've been replacing asylums since they were shut down after Reagan..
It was part of simple 'Reagonomics'
Not after Reagan, but by him
Not entirely true. The United States has experienced two main waves of deinstitutionalisation. The first wave began in the 1950s and targeted people with mental illness. The second wave began roughly 15 years later and focused on individuals who had been diagnosed with a developmental disability. Loren Mosher argues that deinstitutionalisation fully began in the 1970s and was due to financial incentives like SSI and Social Security Disability, rather than after the earlier introduction of psychiatric drugs.
President John F. Kennedy had a special interest in the issue of mental health because his sister, Rosemary, had incurred brain damage after being lobotomised at the age of 23. His administration sponsored the successful passage of the Community Mental Health Act, one of the most important laws that led to deinstitutionalization. The movement continued to gain momentum during the Civil Rights Movement. The 1965 amendments to Social Security shifted about 50% of the mental health care costs from states to the federal government, motivating state governments to promote deinstitutionalization. The 1970s saw the founding of several advocacy groups, including Liberation of Mental Patients, Project Release, Insane Liberation Front, and the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI).
You are pathetically ignorant, and off by about 2 decades. Started under JFK in the 60’s.
Kennedy was the first person to bring up this idea, don’t get it twisted.
Typical for a country with the highest incarceration rate in the world. Rehabilitation is the key, not punitive punishments.
More people (Homeless) will be incarcerated starting october first here in Florida, is all about the $$$
Thank the Martinson Report 😢
Yeah why isn’t the US more like Sweden 🤷♂️
@@southie3177 ... Because the US societal ethos is 'Dog eat Dog' and 'Walk off that broken leg' ....
Look at the US guns culture. To accept that the entire population is mentally delusional. Americans are force fed from childhood the whole 'American Dream' drivel. That America is great when it clearly isn't.
In N Europe we take the view that people who do not fit into society, is our fault, all of us. We as a society have failed them and we must help them.
Imagine that in America, even before a Trump Dictatorship.
My wife is a Dr of Psychology and a previous clinician. Not everyone can be helped voluntarily. There is a marked amount of people who have variations of mental illnesses where the illness itself literally tells them to stop taking their medicine and interacting with professionals. The illness does not want to be cured.
The guy on here who is mentally ill and thinks all people can run loose ... is incorrect.
Absolutely
I thought it was common knowledge that the U.S. started closing Asylums in the 1960s and ramped up closures in the 1980s. During this time the privatized prison system that we know today, took off. Funding moved away from helping the mentally challenged and towards opioids. Thus, creating the current opioid epidemic and exorbitant healthcare costs we face today.
Why do think America is crazy town now....we are a sick nation in 1000 ways
The government stopped funding mental health treatment and started funding opioids? Sounds like you have a very elementary understanding of certain aspects of the issues but that’s just nonsensical. Also, I would bet there’s more funding of “mental health” today than ever before in history, though what exactly is being funded and it’s effectiveness, is highly debatable. Which gets to the root of the problem which is government incompetence and blatant corruption.
@@booognish It’s called broad strokes buddy. But please continue to contribute nothing of value in the CZcams comments section.
@SYSTEM__32 - I remember when the public funded psychiatric hospitals were closed. The first thing noticed was men wandering on downtown streets, swearing and threatening people, some talking gibberish. I did notice some years later there were some criminally insane people being housed at the old hospital, only because I worked in health care and turned down a job there.
A lot of Reagan’s “reforms” are truly deeply coming into focus now 40 years after they were removed.
Honestly Asylums wouldn’t be a bad idea. Better than putting them in prison.
But when the bill comes everyone will say open up more prisons instead
*@FirstnameLastname-qc3xx* Asylums are prisons! Anytime you are confined *anywhere* against your will and are not free to leave-- that is a prison.
@@starlitecc Tell us you don't understand how mental health works without telling us...
@@frankboyer1490 Okay, so prisons and asylums are not exactly the same.
In the Supreme Court case of
*Vital v. Jones, 445 U.S. 480 (1980)* The Supreme Court ruled that Psychiatric hospitals are *worse* than prisons"
Involuntary admission to a mental hospital is a deprivation of individual liberty, lacks due process, and not afforded counsel nor any of the same protections that are afforded even to prisoners.
Yet, it's your belief that non-consensual medical treatment and forced drugging in a locked facility unable to escape is a good thing, right ?!?
Then, there's still the problem of obtaining, educated, compassionate staff members to run these facilities and treat patients, not simply house them until they die. We've all seen "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" or at least read the book. Nobody wants to go back to those days, hiring those kinds of folks, who think nothing of mistreating patients.
As a RN who has worked internationally and in all areas of healthcare , there is a dire need for long term residential care of people with psychiatric illness. I always say that it continues to be the Untreated Epidemic . The Asylum system from the 50's did alot of good for many people in terms of giving them a safe place to live, oversight of medication administration , occupations (such as farming, carpentry , crafting , laundry) a healthy diet and protection and safety from exploitation. Heartbreaking to see so many struggling on the streets , living in despicable situations with their untreated psychiatric disease.
A lot of the asylum conditions in the 50s were actually horrific. It's why they were shut down in the first place.
They weren’t safe from exploitation or abuse, many were taken advantage of by the workers in the hospital. We need to something better than Asylums. Thinking we can go back to the Asylum system without a strong patient right protection system is hubris.
The 50’s !? Part of the dark ages of so called medical care !!
As another RN, we need more long term mental health facilities with SAFE STAFFING and adequate resources. SO many people need help and end up in the legal system instead.
What is your opinion of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest?
The US cut way back on mental health care. It’s truly insane that there isn’t more offered. It’s a hard thing, because what happens is that after people are released, they’d often stop the meds that made them well, and the cycle starts again. I don’t think people should be “locked up,” but there’s zero support for those we know need support. Who actually aren’t well enough to keep a job, or earn enough to take care of basic needs. For those who refuse medication, there does need to be social support. It’s hard to balance someone’s freedom, with the damage they sometimes do in society. It’s truly a complex issue.
Soyciety
Well said. The issue is extraordinarily complex. And it is compounded by an increasing reliance on privatized corporations lacking in oversight and basic standards for ethics and quality of care. The ultimate responsibility of an institution should be to its patients, its staff, their families, and their communities. When the responsibility for the care, safety, and well-being of the most vulnerable people in our communities is given to corporate boardrooms and shareholders, we have failed to protect them-as well as the staff, their families and their communities-from the worst kind of exploitation. 💜
Well said. Best comment. The asylums weren't "all good" either. This whole thing is a difficult complex issue
The US prison system causes more problems than it helps. Recidivism is so high because we focus on punishment rather than rehabilitation and then we kick people back on the streets where their criminal record leaves them with very little job opportunity, difficulty finding residence, etc. and then they go back in. On top of that, some of the people we punish need mental health help more than they need punishment.
Unfortunately like many other things in this country such as racial justice, foreign policy, immigration to name a few, we have gone so far down the wrong road that there’s not really a way back. If you just turn on a dime and change it, then because of how the problem has been exacerbated the consequences would be even worse at least for a while so there is no easy answer to fix anymore. Somebody smarter than me has to fix it. It’s broken clearly, but idk what you can even do at this point other than build a time machine and nip it in the bud a long time ago.
The guards bringing in drugs and beating people for nothing or little to nothing.
They are as bad as the people they watch
@@howlinwulfStanford project 💯
The people can’t be rehabilitated we need to stop wasting billions of resources on lost causes they got themselves into their situation I’m not giving them any of my hard earned money to get them out because of their bad choices
@@howlinwulfthe shareholders of the privately owned prisons should actually be the ones locked up. blaming COs is kind of pointless
Despite its issues, my great grandmother was in a state run asylum, despite some of the issues with Northern State, it was a mental facility in WA stats that provided work and treatment based balance to recovery, providing chances to work on their farm. once state run facilities were disbanded she was left with ZERO resources and ended up homeless. This resulted directly in the severe increase of homeless the end of a time and start of the deinstitutionalization movement
Edit** the result of increased homelessness was directly the result of the deinstitutionalization movement
Chances to work on a farm😂
Dang I never thought about it but there should definitely be more insane asylums
Ppl were abusing others so they had to ban it
@@Imdatninja18 yeah so they should ban jails too then
@TheBenadrylhatdaddy18 sadly, there's also abuse that goes on in school, that doesn't mean that we should down the entire education system.
@@Imdatninja18this is a straight up lie you were told by a business who profits off misery
It’s all for insurance purposes. I worked at a psych facility and they would keep patients with better insurance longer and those with no or poor insurance, they would discharge pretty quick. Even the doctors knew some were still actively psychotic and would continue to discharge. We had frequent flyers also due to needing meds or housing and so it’s just a revolving door
Yup!! I worked at major university hospital in a psychiatric unit. The program I was specifically assigned to ended up getting shut down for this reason. The director of the program had been committing insurance fraud and toying with our patients’ well-beings! It’s greed and it’s disgusting.
I've had experience with this and yes jails are absolutely replacing mental health facilities, it's much cheaper.
But there is no rehabilitation / treatment in prison! Offenders are more likely to repeat the offense! Bonds get met , paroles get granted.
@@smoove354prisons in America have never been about rehabilitation it’s about punishment nd profit
@@smoove354
And the courts, bonds men and lawyers all make money.
@@smoove354and they owe more and more money each time they are arrested. Court costs and restitution fines and fees not to mention the lawyer(if that can even be afforded)
its not though. the cost to keep a “criminal”(most are just non violent drug offenders who mind their own business) in jail is so inflated its ridiculous. for a year its more than an average citizens income. Ask the prisoners if they feel like they’re costing tax payers 50k a year. every single one of them will say no. sadly this and every other hardship this country has created was done so to line the pockets of old whyte ppl smh… sometimes i hate it here
I think it was Kennedy that started to close the asylums and it all started with a book called “Christmas in Purgatory” that showed how evil these asylums were.
But I think we need to bring them back (but do it right this time).
@@GMkid183 and just before he was going to unveil his plan to treat the mentally ill post deinstutionalization movement, he was assassinated…
The same Kennedy that forced his daughter to have a lobotomy? Ironic.
JFKs younger sister Rosemary Kennedy was lobotomized. I could see why he didn't like asylums
JFKs younger sister Rosemary Kennedy was lobotomized. I could see why he didn't like asylums
Never trust a government program with total control over the people inside they will medicate people without reason to get more funding. It becomes more than prison because you don't even have your mind locked up every which way. All government systems do atrocities to justify more funding always
the CEOs of American private prisons are some of the richest ppl in the world. and they’re only going to get richer now that they’ve paid the US supreme court to reverse roe vs wade. no access to abortions means more children born out of wedlock, which means more broken homes, which means more crime and the ones who vote for these kind of things also hate welfare programs. we have a population of the country who doesn’t think logically at all, who are motivated by emotions and are easily susceptible to propaganda and indoctrination. ironically these same ppl call anyone that doesn’t agree with them “sheep” and have no clue they’re turning sociopaths into billionaires. even more ironic, these ppl feel they relate to these billionaires, who wouldn’t even pxss on them if they were burning to death
Absolutely. I'm surprised more people haven't made this connection
we have mental institutions.... ive been to one... but the thing is its expensive... and if u dont have good insurance u cant get tghe help u need... we really do need to bring bk state or even federally funded mental health institutions
First thing I noticed when I went on holiday in San Diego. " ohhh America has crazy people walking the streets"
And even if you do have insurance, 1/2 of the time it's not covered.
@@bjj9711 lol ive never been there but yea its real bad there
@@PHUCKUSA-z3l not even 1/2 the time tbh. and thats sad. the only reason i was able to go was bc my dad was a gov. worker so we had blue cross blue shield
When I was 18 I was on probation for a juvenille crime. I had to go back to JDC at 18, I am a normal citizen now, but recall how even 10 years ago, this was the case. Parents abandoned a chaotic 12 year old who would scream, bite, and on occasion, assault women. The jail put him on the gang unit with people who were going to be charged as adults at 17 for violent crimes. just stuck him in there. The parents gave up, and did not pick him up after his charges posted. No halfway house would take him due to his behavior. I think about him often, hoping he is alive and well. I have no idea what the system did to him, but he was such a good kid when you got to talk to him. Hope you are okay Chelson!
Nice memory 💀
Man that's so sad
Does anyone else think this situation is too familiar to the joker movie?? 🤔
Half of the homeless here in Sacramento county are veterans and could qualify for help and care but without any address they are caught in a nasty neverending circle and jails are now the defacto mental health facilities for many municipal settings. Veterans have earned this care but are just ignored like other homeless mentally ill. Most people don't realize that prisoners are the ONLY PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT HAVE THE THE RIGHT TO ACCESS MEDICAL CARE!! Thats why jails are forced to provide mental health care to inmates in thier custody. A sad situation that is only getting worse and putting more people at risk of getting hurt or killed my this neglected population in our communities.🤔
A disabled US Army Veteran and former VA employee in Sacramento California..
Any healthcare/Mental health in Jails and Prisons is disgusting. Example: Crack a tooth? Pull it. Small Cavity causing constant pain? Pull it. The services are not done for the people but the institution. This is very important to acknowledge.
nobody cares about your shitty little movie
@@TheyCensorUsHereLet’s be real, you are using false equivalency logic here, comparing a cracked tooth to schizophrenia.
@@ronswansonsdog2833 Your reading comprehension is nearly void of all existence.
@@ronswansonsdog2833 Let's be real, in jail/prison you are considered subhuman and given a pantomime form of "healthcare" and certainly no form of mental healthcare, in fact the american penal institutions are sadistic and purposefully cruel, designed to drive anyone insane.
Replacing? Already happened didn't it?
Florida has the Baker Act which will allow police to hospitalize an individual showing signs of mental distress involuntary. The problem is the police themselves are not trained to handle the mentally ill properly. One of my school friends who was suffering from mental distress was shot and killed by police in South Florida.
For decades. How is this new to, well, ANYONE?
Graves replacing the hospitals will be the next thing. You dont get to find out what's wrong with your health until you're in the grave. American healthcare, am i right?
Naw too much profit in hospitals
This!!
@@squibbelsmcjohnson Jokes on them. I can't afford a 500,000$ bill.
@@slowbro1337 here in California debt is written off every 7 years but you have to ignore everything they throw at you because it will restart the timer even on last day of that 7 years...but.not fun not having access to credit or to rent an apartment lmao
@@squibbelsmcjohnsonthis is the federal debt law not just California but yeah hard to house yourself even with money when nobody will lease to you
Both parties refuse to authorize mental institutions because of the horrid abuse in the 60s and 70s. So instead, people with mental health problems are sent to jail when they hurt people. We need states to act if congress wont.
I feel like alaska or North Dakota should step in, build on their open land, and bill the feds.
God I just can’t watch this stuff any more I get so raging mad at how feckless America is…. It’s out of hand and the way we treat the sick and addicted is just cruel, anyone who’s had to deal with a loved one knows what a helpless nightmare everyone goes through… it’s outrageously insulting to humanity …
No, but the streets are. Just go to any city center in the U.S. It’s an open air asylum.
My heart breaks for this family! The mental health system continues to fail people, day after day. Unfortunately, I have an aunt who the hospitals kept releasing, saying she wasn’t a danger to herself or others…
I remember that day like it was yesterday. I told my mom that she didn’t look right at all. She was just sitting at the kitchen table, staring out the window. I told my mom that something bad is going to happen and that she should be brought back to the hospital. My mom and grandmother, told me they won’t do anything, which I understand their frustration. She had just been released a week prior. I left to go back home as I was just visiting. My family’s life was forever changed that night. My aunt had stabbed someone that night and killed him. She truly believed that this man stole her inheritance from my grandfather, who was still alive at this time. She had gotten mad at my grandmother who refused to buy her beer. She hitchhiked and went to see a friend whose brother was visiting. They were drinking and doing drugs when she began to hallucinate. She stabbed him 17 times! She was sentenced to 27 years.
My aunt was a kind person who would help anyone if they needed it.
Devastating. your aunt deserved better
My main concern would be abuse in facilities like these. I worked in an old folks home for adults with special needs and was appalled at how some of the staff treated these people. I reported like 5 people in my first week alone. I was also hospitalized myself as a young kid and have experienced first hand how staff treats patients i swear i came out worse than how i came in. If i could trust a facility like this could actually do more help than harm I'd be all for it, but until there's a system in place that would allow these people to be fully protected under the states care i think its a bad idea.
So what’s your solution to the crisis?
@@dianehess5520 Literally what i just said. Put a system in place that would allow mentally ill patients to be protected under state care.😆
make Asylums great again
As someone whom has lived with a family member that has mental illness I can tell you this cycle is terrifying for the family. Especially when they are violent during an outburst. This family member has destroyed every place we allowed them to live. Literally broken down the walls, broken the appliances, toliets, sinks, windows, stolen from us, gotten in physical altercations, caused damage to our vehicles, called the cops and cps on us. This last time she actually called the fbi and they responded to her by sending local pd to talk to us. This last episode I was home alone with them as everyone else was gone on a vacation. I was so terrified every night that she was going to murder me. She shaved all her hair and all night I could hear her banging on the vehicles with a leather belt. She carried around a huge rock and snapped the belt at me. She took all our towels and put them in the yard. The cops couldn't do anything until she threatened me. I was carrying my phone everywhere with the cops on speed dial. I was worried she would kill me in front of my 4 year old daughter. My daughter was absolutely terrified she was going to hurt myself and her. Right now she is inpatient because the fbi phone call helped us get her into involuntary treatment. I am dreading the day she is released and fear someday she will kill us in our sleep.
This has been going on since Reaganism.
Wrong. The United States has experienced two main waves of deinstitutionalisation. The first wave began in the 1950s and targeted people with mental illness. The second wave began roughly 15 years later and focused on individuals who had been diagnosed with a developmental disability. Loren Mosher argues that deinstitutionalisation fully began in the 1970s and was due to financial incentives like SSI and Social Security Disability, rather than after the earlier introduction of psychiatric drugs.
President John F. Kennedy had a special interest in the issue of mental health because his sister, Rosemary, had incurred brain damage after being lobotomised at the age of 23. His administration sponsored the successful passage of the Community Mental Health Act, one of the most important laws that led to deinstitutionalization. The movement continued to gain momentum during the Civil Rights Movement. The 1965 amendments to Social Security shifted about 50% of the mental health care costs from states to the federal government, motivating state governments to promote deinstitutionalization. The 1970s saw the founding of several advocacy groups, including Liberation of Mental Patients, Project Release, Insane Liberation Front, and the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI).
Sweet you said all of that for me lol.
They already have replaced asylums with prisons in Alabama... We have basically zero mental healthcare here, what we do have is absolutely useless...
This is what happens when the USA doesn't focus on helping men and giving them the self belief of being needed in society. Mental illness is no joke, we need to build a platform which will give men & also women the opportunity to connect and reach out for help. This is a serious issue and it's growing
The issue is the people are demanding resources we can’t afford to spare or just don’t have why should we spend billions on a group of people who clearly aren’t capable of being productive members of society and not I don’t know spend it somewhere more important like in finding a cure for cancer or making more stuff
Men are running USA. It's nobody else fault that you threw mustard gas into the same room you sleep in. Dying from your own toxic fumes bro.😂
I have to ask, what exactly is the" help" that will cure this problem?
@sirblackshield8000 also, how can someone give you a self belief? You literally gotta believe it yourself. What you're asking for is to be coddled.
I'm a social worker who works with formerly homeless people in a supportive housing program. Almost all of my clients have serious mental illness, and yet with case management most of them manage to stay housed and out of trouble. Their lives aren't perfect and they don't always go to their doctor's appointments but they are absolutely not dangerous and most just need a place to lay their head at night. It makes me furious to see this false dichotomy be presented as the only ways forward: live a wretched life without sufficient social supports or receive a certain level of care along with incarceration and the abuse that inevitably comes with it.
When they talk about the people with serious mental illness who will not engage with mental health programs, they do not acknowledge how hard it is for someone to make and keep doctor's appointments when they don't have a roof over their head. People that I work with will engage with mental health services when they are housed a whole lot more than when they are on the street. And even when they don't, they have their own space to have a crisis in, and they rarely pose a danger to the public. They also engage with services more when those services come to them at their apartments, a service that is extremely rare. This is ironic, given that people are talking about paying for asylums. Why are people only willing to give food and shelter to people with severe mental illness when it's involuntary? We have never in the history of the United States made these services truly accessible on a voluntary basis, so it is absurd to say that people simply do not want services.
This is a really ignorant piece and I expected better from Vice. Instead of truly examining the subject they interviewed a couple people and put out a hit piece that looks a lot more like Fox News than the journalism I would expect from them.
Can u imagine having a beach house and not selling it to save your son! He must feel so let down and abandoned! He needs a nurse and a home not a hospital!
Get out of town
There isn't a place to put him money or not. Their only hope is paying for his own place and his own staff and that would bankrupt anybody.
okay clown.
If they let him stay there, he has a home.
That’s kind of what I was wondering about. But I think it might be hard to let him stay there, as they likely can’t afford private live-in a nurse for him nor can they tend to him themselves.
I hope they can one day live together again and get it figured out.
The most obvious answer is yes. If you have to watch this video to confirm that you should probably open your eyes.
They are already or am i missing something?
Now what kind of treatment or we talking about. More drugs, punishment, manipulation? Come on caregivers, who do you really think you are.
His psychosis is triggered by drug use. They release him after he has been sober long enough to come back to normality. He needs rehabilitation all around.
And it's a well-known fact that drugs are readily available in prisons.
@@rirkc that’s a guarantee in any jail.
Asylums and jails have always been the same. They’ve just stopped pretending otherwise.
Where I live in the US, there are plenty of psych hospitals, but they're all acute. I don't know of any long-term facility in my entire state that's not specifically for drug rehab, and even then people are shoved out as soon as the insurance runs out. I personally was a revolving door patient for a while because I needed care for longer than a week but it simply wasn't available to me.
I can attest to the wide spread, cyclically natured health care system, as my mother struggles with severe manic bipolar disorder and has been in and out of facilities for the past 6 years. A roller coaster of hope, following despair following hope is an analogy I resonate with. I just want my mom to get help.
My dad was a corrections officer when he was a young man. He only did it for a years. He was at a small jail and said most of the people were mentally ill. A lot of them would break laws so they could have somewhere to stay and have food.
That is still going on and not because they are mentally ill but because shortages of housing or landlords/property management won’t rent to them even if they have section 8 housing. Freaking chaotic!
@@rekardourxua3082 Yes he said he met a lot of people he were homeless as well and that was just the only place that they felt they could get help and basic needs
People do that all the time up north at hospitals during the winter time. Crack heads, bums and some crazy people.
The answer without even watching is “yes. Absolutely yes”. Source: lived in America my whole life.
Yes! It's been that way for decades!!
In NYC the subway’s are
They replaced them 40 years ago. What kind of question is that?
Yes. Next question..
/thread
This was a question for 1990 bro. I thought this was common knowledge
You're a little behind the times there Vice, this has been the case for many years
Mental health issues > drug and alcohol dependency > poverty > proclivity towards crime > prison > unemployability > homelessness > health issues > resentment towards society > isolation > violence > worsening mental health > ... ... ...
Yes. Yes, they are.
This is heartening. In my country, mental health care is for those who can afford it, 😢 while those who can are left to leave on the streets and either die like dogs or beg to survive.
Whats the difference between jails and asylum 🤔
We need to rebuild mental hospitals for the future.
"An essential element that plays into the false equivocation of psychiatric illness and criminality is the incorrect labeling of all criminals as persons with mental illness. Society at large views behavior and conduct problems as a symptom of a psychological disorder, which has led to the false public perception that equates criminality with psychiatric illness. The high levels of reported mental illness in jail and prison populations are primarily due to false labeling of criminals as having a psychiatric illness. These figures are not always based on thorough medical and psychiatric evaluation and diagnosis, but rather as a result of social factors."
AND
"The closure of state psychiatric hospitals which began with the deinstitutionalization drive in 1960 forced many psychiatric patients on the streets, forced to fend for themselves.[6] As a result, these patients came into contact with the police and the courts more often. The situation is exacerbated by a lack of training and staffing in the court system, potentially accounting for persons with mental illness comprising an ever-larger fraction of the jail and prison population. Many of the symptoms of psychiatric illnesses are behaviors considered antisocial or criminal such as wandering behavior.[7] The result has been the false perception of a causal relationship between psychiatric illness and criminality."
"The most important and independent risk factor for criminality and violence among individuals with mental illness is a long-term substance use disorder.[10] In patients with a major psychiatric illness, comorbid substance use disorder, there is a four-fold increase in the risk of committing a crime or violence.[11] Studies have shown that the rise in violent crime committed by individuals with mental illness, may entirely be accounted for with a history of alcohol and/or drug use."
A healthy society is a great society🌳 🌻 Bring back state hospitals and help our people♡
Is this even a question? Ever sense Reagan closed down the asylums. It’s only gotten worse. Although those asylums were also really terrible so it’s just transferred the terrible treatment
obviously
In answer to the question asked in the title, the short answer is yes. I've worked in prisons (both federal and state) as the Director of Nursing as well as a large inpatient psychiatric hospital on the east coast. Often times, judges will give a choice to the person in court before him or her; choose to go to either a psych facility or prison. Additionally, there is a large number of the prison population on psychiatric medications. There is no other choice right now.
This was released by in 2022. Vice is currently dead.
Asylums aren't some rehabilitative paradise from what I've read. People can come out worse from those institutions too.
They have been since the late 80s
I think we live in a society that is so individualistic that the idea of caring for our communities is a foreign concept. Everyone seems to think "it's not my problem" until something happens that affects them, and then they want someone ELSE to take care of it. I don't know what the solution is, but something needs to be done to help these poor people.
I don't even need to watch to know the answer is YES!
it's depressing to see, as someone who's mentally ill myself, that while i'm suffering but not yet homeless, i expect to end up being homeless & later incarcerated within the next decade or so.
the centuries of dehumanization of mentally ill people, the political & economic hierarchies of this country that were always intended to protect owners of productive property, the wider social stigmas of being mentally ill among many other things i don't have the energy to get into are the reasons why mental health treatment in this country simply doesn't exist.
the current economic situation here is only making it worse by shifting societial focus on the idea that this economic system that somehow can be "fixed" through legislation.
it cannot be fixed, it will never actually work for you if you don't own productive property.
Yes. Yes they are.
this has been the case for years!
Hell yeah. Jails are replacing malls also
False, online shopping replaces malls.
The streets of California are the asylums
I'm gonna be real chat I didn't know we still had asylums
I have worked in the mental health field for over 25 years. For 20 years I worked at an amazing long-term psychiatric care facility with highly trained professionals and caring staff. We offered a safe, environment with healthy meals, education and job skills training. Staff ensured that the patients received all of their medications daily along with therapy. The facility closed 5 years ago due to budget cuts and a push to get the patients out into the community. Where are our former residents now? Some did well in the community, but many have moved from one group home to another while receiving minimal services. Sadly, others have died from lack of care or are living on the streets. There is absolutely a need for state funded long-term, in-patient mental health facilities. It's also important to remember that the availability of mental health services varies great from one community to the next and is especially lacking in rural America.
Great Question. Follow the money. How much medicine 💊 is being dispensed?
3300 arrests and 67% of those weren’t unique, but were arrests of the same 3% (97) of people proves that you shouldn’t make sweeping generalizations about crimes committed in any given community.
Yes
I'm a retired administrator from the Department of Corrections (DOC) in my state, as a warden in an all male maximum security facility. Most prisons now have full time mental health staff, including a full time psychiatrist. Over 30% of our inmates were on psychotropic medications, many of them violent. Prisons have been the new asylums for the past 20 years. Unfortunately, that means they've probably already seriously hurt or killed someone by this time. To make matters worse, these inmates are ruthlessly manipulated and abused by other inmates. Yes, we need asylums brought back.
Us government
Focusing on homeless and high inflation: No❎
Bringing more ppl from the south who have thousand of dollars to pay to coyotes: Yes✅.
Spot on
ive been subjected to white torture everytime i went to county jail, 2 weeks each everytime i got locked up. because i have a mental health issue they place me in white room in paper clothes lights on 24/7 and fed me rice and chicken tenders in a white styrofoam box. the only people i heard were other people screaming nonstop, all day and night only screaming and howling, the psych doc would come every few days and say a few words. it was torture for no reason.. just torture
Ain't even gonna let this get past one minute in. Cuz. Yes. Yes, is your fucking answer.
As someone with nearly 9 years into the corrections field.
Rosenthal is a kook. If you are 1- harming yourself 2- harming others and/or 3- have such erratic behaviors that you cannot function in society i.e. hold down a job, socialize, learn a skill then you REQUIRE help. you are not in a state to consent and can be a threat to not only your family members but other people around you. now to be clear, that is not to say you are locked up for life. the goal is ongoing rehabilitation with ethics boards overseeing and reviewing data constantly. there is not only the possibility of physical threat but when you have disorders you are a drain on the resources of others, literally their time is no longer theirs b/c they have to attend to your issues. is that fair for that family BUT is it fair for you to be abandoned in the street, to go crazy in the elements and then attack people. this calls for a communal response in which we treat those with disorders and try to get them back into society under supervision and then fade ourselves away as best we can but with the option for them to seek help again if they need it or it is warranted.
funny how parents dont think they are enemies
They have services but most refuse them. I work in mental health. Most programs require rules they do not want to fellow.
A janitor?
@ClannCholmain, your comment is not needed, and what do you mean by it? Because you look racist.
This is why, as a mentally ill person, that lives with other mentally ill people, we need coercive treatments that are humane but still coercive. When I was at a very low point, I went to the nurse at my college because I was having terrible headaches. She asked me to go to the Asylum just behind the Medecine faculty after seeing my state. Of course, I didn't go. Getting to the Asylum was the last thing on my mind. Still I had many more psychosis and I wonder how my life would be if there was somebody that would have helped me and put me in a safe place. I just healed on my own but it took so long and I felt like I wasted time (I had no concept of time.). Some people are traumatized by being put inside an Asylum but there's so many that are left alone with their thoughts. There must be a better way that satisfies everybody.
@@mississipi1103 woah there seems like you don't value human rights nothing can be coercive and also humane it doesn't work like that.
@@mississipi1103 even if they are coerced and forced to do something they don't want to do they will still be left with their own thoughts this whole paragraph didn't make a single point.
I studied a lot about criminology, and the US just has far too many prisoners. It doesn’t help anybody. We need more support for people with mental issues.
Several years ago the Republican nominee was diagnosed with mental illness, a book was written about it.
Who?
😂 he's still mentally ill
@@MuddieRain Donald Drumpf the raging narcissist
@@MuddieRain hi.
The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump by Bandy X. Lee, a world leader in her field.
What was he diagnosed with?
Asylums were basically jails/concentration camps with a different label
Yes! As a paramedic I worked in two medium security prisons and both wardens told me upfront that 50% of the prisoners were mentally ill. They were correct
Yep, last year I attempted to take my own life. When I was found, I was checked into a hospital, stayed 2 days in the hospital then got charged with a felony for being found with prescription drugs that was not mine that I bought to try and take my own life, I have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder for 12 years, I was not offered help or anything, as soon as I was released from the hospital I was charged and held in jail for 3 months until I seen a judge then was sentenced to 90 days plus fines. Not once I was I asked about my mental health, receive my medication or anything. All we are in America is a money machine for whoever is in charge. America is not a country its a corporation. The only Human right you have in America is making money for the people above you
The answer is yes, the solution is bring back asylums. The vast majority weren’t bad (or like in the movies etc).
My cousin was discharged from a facility in Texas at night and was killed in an accident hours later. Its a severe problem
I'm so sorry for your loss
"...then somebody discharges him..." Yes, that would be either the insurance company or the hospital administration in the event he has no insurance.
nice cottage.
the idea is to help them BEFORE they commit any criminal offense, but in the US you consistently hear one political party say we need to do more, all while cutting any kind of funding that will help others.
Yes they are replacing asylums. Bring back asylums.
The problem is twofold. Psychiatrists’ appointments are expensive, and once you add thousands a year in drugs, plus weekly therapy, and the average psychiatric patient is going to struggle with funds to cover their expenses.
Plus, some individuals are willing to accept their diagnosis and take medication, but there are many individuals who refuse. Some people will stay on medications for years and then quit. There need to be social workers assigned to all of these individuals so they can intervene before something bad happens.
Short answer yes. You can thank Saint Ronnie.
It’s damn near impossible to get help for a minor.
I worked for an institution during 1984 in CT it was particularly fed funded. We had all kinds activities and programs. The campus was like a beautiful college campus. They had own police, fire dept pools etc... I think deinstitutionalization was a big mistake.
I have 2 sisters that have sczoiphenia one is 66 and the other one 55. They both think anything is wrong with them. There for they refuse to take medication. Both have graduated from college. I can't count how many times they been hospitalized and release with a treatment plan and medicaton. But after treatment they refuse to follow treatment plan including refusing to take medication
I think they should be involuntary treatment and medication. They put my parents and me through hell. Missing , incarnation, unacceptable behavior, hoarding, leaving on the gass stove burning the pot until its charred black
My parents passed away. They both had cancer. It was very stressful for my parents to live with my sisters. Which did not help my parents sickness. Now I have to bear the brunt alone
Worked at a dual diagnosis facility in the Phoenix inner city.
More resources are definitely needed. But, they're far too lenient with violent mental illness offenders. They discharge violent offenders to the street and they do it again and it keeps happening until someone di3s.
This is very dangerous, that boy will kill someone one day. The cries for help are there but the system still keeps sending him back😢 Mental health issues are a serious problem and the system should look long and hard into it
My heart hurts for them. My son is in a similar situation, unable to post bail. Denying his mental unwellness. Unable to care for himself.
How do his parents tolerate this?? Mine would have called the police and had me locked up immediately, no questions asked. I can’t believe how much people will put up with for their adult children.