Caitlin Clark and the Other All-Time “Sports Shifters” | The Bill Simmons Podcast
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- čas přidán 9. 04. 2024
- The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House to discuss Caitlin Clark and other athletes who have raised the profile of their individual sports.
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Tony Hawks 900 was earth shattering
Skateboarding came back huge with Hawk!
Don’t forget what Forrest Gump did for Ping Pong.
Or what Beth Harmon did for chess.
the 2001 Venus-Serena US Open Final had NFL numbers viewership (23 million) up directly against Notre Dame - Nebraska on a Saturday night
Definitely missing Michael Phelps and Usain Bolt in this list. They had massive significance in increasing the popularity of swimming and track & field events in the United States
While there was an uptick in kids taking up swimming and track, the actual popularity from a fan standpoint was minimal. Most fans still don't care about these 2 sports until the Olympics and you don't exactly see it on TV all the time unless you're specifically looking for it. When talking about millions and millions of views for an event, it's not like the World Championships of swimming is breaking sports viewership records. Those sports haven't "shifted"... they're still basically the same.
usain bolt for sure!!! good take!!! 👍🏾 i was definitely tuned in to watch him
Facts 💯
You must be like 10 years old if you don't know who Carl Lewis is.
No doubting their GOATness but here's my pitch. The public's fascination with the modern Olympics, and who The Fastest Man on The Planet is, starts with Jesse Owens - a lone black athlete whose feats tore at Hitler's showcase of Aryan supremacy. Bolt is a linear descendant, as was Lewis before him, of The Man.
On Phelps, it could be argued that it was Johnny Weismuller, 70 years before him, who brought glamour to men's swimming when he parlayed his champion status, and physique, into movie stardom. In turn, he set the blueprint for 'athlete-slash-movie stars' like Buster Crabbe, Jim Brown, Burt Reynolds....through to The Rock, Cena and Bautista.
But, personally, I go with Mark Spitz' tour de force at the '72 l Munich Olympics. Like Jesse Owens before him, the context, as much as the performance, is etched in the annals of human history - the horrendous pall cast over the event as Black September terrorists murdered two Israeli sportsmen and held others hostage, OIC chair Avery Brundage's subsequent declaration that 'The Games must go on', and Spitz' electrifying performance in the pool.
Haven’t watched the whole thing yet but Tony Hawk did A LOT for skateboarding & xtreme sports.
Phelps? Armstrong? Bolt? By percentage change in their sport they where bigger then almost anyone you mention.
92 Dream Team. I know that's a team rather than a player and is essentially an extension of Bird, Magic and Jordan, but it's still pretty significant to give a shout out to. They were huge in terms of exposing basketball to a wider international audience, which has since come full circle back to the NBA. A lot of the biggest stars in the league today are foreign-born, and a lot of that traces back to the growth of basketball internationally in the wake of the 1992 Olympics.
Tiger Woods did more for golf than any other player did for their game. Golf suddenly became the cool thing to play, watch and talk about. It became hip and him joining Nike was the icing on the cake. It obviously brought a lot of black people to golf as well. Tiger is Golf
Michael Jordan brought more black golfers than Tiger Woods
@@dsg3053 athletes maybe but not the average joe.
@@dsg3053 nope
Bill is always right. Best show in the world. CC is a big time needle mover.
How could you not mention Chris Moneymaker?
That's a really good shoutout. The problem with Moneymaker is was he was sort of a flash in the pan
Not a sport
who
Carl Lewis created professional track and field.
Venus and Serena became Global stars winning majors and even a movie.
Tony Hawk & Tony Alvia created skateboarding market.
Fab 5 ushered in freshman becoming stars in college basketball as a team. Even did a European tour playing pro teams.
Ali took boxing into icon status.
Dream Team- Global impact, sparked basketball internationally.
Joey jaws chestnut the goat of eating. The hot dog eating on 4th of July is all him
No. You must’ve not been around for the Kobayashi craze
@@thomas8794 he hasn't been relevant in 20yrs. Keep up
@@hiddengem9742 Relevancy isn't the topic. Shifting the sport is. Joey made his name chasing Kobayashi. Kobayashi was a phenomenon.
Agree with the Kobayashi perspective. Jaws became dominant but Kobayashi was the initial needle mover
Ronda Rousey did a lot for UFC
I have Ronda over Connor… Connor is great no doubt but he’s more of a character then elite in the UFC
Sure but we are back to no women in main events again and women being under card matches.
@@Kinogotiatehave you watched WMMA? Cant blame the UFC for forcing them onto the prelims. There are female fighters that I’m a big fan of, but the vast majority of WMMA is just terrible
@@philjoneisom8884 you must be joking. Mcgregor headlined 8 of the 10 biggest selling UFC PPV of all time. The top 7 are all him and over a million buys. And that doesn't even include the boxing match. You may like Rousey more then McGregor but his impact on UFC was astronomical. He is mostly responsible for turning them into a billion dollar company. He really should be at the top of this list as overall impact.
@@hobochangba7638 That's what I'm saying one big star doesn't change watching habits forever. NBA ratings way down since MJ era. WWE ratings way down since stone cold/ rock. Women's mma doesn't have the luster it did with Rousey, Johanna, Amanda Nunez. Everyone is all over Women's basketball now but when the star of Caitlyn fades.
Lance Armstrong was left out. 7 straight tours, the livestrong bracelets, he hosted SNL, Sheryl Crow engagement, cameo in Dodgeball, the ride for the Roses, the explosion of the bike industry in the US, and countless celebrities associating with him ie Robin Williams is a huge hole in this take.
In the UFC, I gotta go with the guys who turned UFC into a must watch sport. It was Couture, Silva, Liddell, Rampage Jackson, and Georges St-Pierre in the mid to late 2000s. Those guys completely shifted focus from boxing to MMA. I understand McGregor taking things to new heights but the guys I just mentioned were the ones who built the audience when pretty much nobody cared.
Liddell was the most important for MMA, followed by GSP. He gave the sport a recognizable figure that was unique (non-cut guy with tats and a mohawk). GSP was important too because he proved that it was actually a legit sport to a lot people who just looked at it as drunken cagefighting. Not sure how many of McGregors fans have become hardcore MMA watchers: a lot of them just liked his persona and knock outs and that's it.
Phelps and Bolt!!💯🔥🔥
Pele took Soccer to a global level that essentially made it the most popular sport in the world.
The sport was globally popular before Pele
@@hardwoodthought1213Yes and so was Basketball before Jordan but like Jordan, Pele took it to another level. He was so popular he played 100’s of friendly games touring the workd because everyone wanted to watch Pele kick the ball
@@isaacnewton3514 The man counts goals he scored against the military to his total tally, so I won’t accept anything said about him
Gotta put Ronda Rousey in there woman’s fighting basically did not exist before her
💯
Magic and Bird’s NCAA Final shifted the sport of college basketball and preview the shift orbiting around them once they arrived in the NBA the very next year. In the modern era, this was first time we were really getting to watch the two most iconic superstars of their generation take each other on in the NCAA Finals where the closest modern comparison might be like Deron Williams vs Raymond Felton, Marcus Paige vs Jalen Brunson or Derrick Rose and Mario Chalmers?
It’s just insanely rare and then 4yrs later history of influence of that series shifting the sport with their sequel finally comin to fruition as future #1 overall pick to the NYK’s Patrick Ewing led Georgetown vs UNC led by SR James Worthy with Sam Perkins as well as a FR Michael Jordan who would go on to make a game winning pull-up mid-range jumper that he would become known for the NBA while Ewing/Worthy/Perkins all having stellar NBA careers.
Even with all of the much more compelling coverage and storylines, it still doesn’t perfectly parallel like Magic vs Bird in the NCAA Finals in 1979 as like this omen of what’s to come the next 8 years of LAL vs BOS.
Ewing and Olajuwon in 84…
DUKE vs UK in the 1992 NCAA tournament. I thought Bo Jackson was legit superman as a kid
Bo was a specimen. 👍
I'm just blessed to get to see Paul Bunyan in real life. His name is Bo Jackson.
Crosby and Ovi boosting hockey after the lockout season
No one gives a shit about the nhl
People watch hockey?
@@626lifeaa Or baseball.
F1 netflix doesnt belong anywhere near this list.
The reason all of these athletes seem larger than life to you guys is that you were kids when they were stars. Of course your childhood heroes are still a big deal to you. But it's because of you, not them.
Tony Hawk for skating
Ohtani with the WBC performance deserves to be on the list. He shifted baseball and the only reason he didn't shift it more was the incompetence of the Angels.
Please be careful saying shift. We just got rid of them and we don't want dumbass Manfred to get anymore bright ideas hahaha
But baseball was waaaay bigger before.. during the mid 90s baseball was huge (and even bigger before then, but I wasn’t alive to see it)..
Ohtani is a megastar.. but McGwire/Sosa had people talking about baseball in the malls and grocery stores.. Ken Griffey Jr. was a HUGE deal.. Maddux/Glavin/Smoltz.. the big unit.. roger Clemens.. Barry Bonds..
Baseball was HUGE..
I’ll say Ohtani is definitely trying to revive it though..
Ohtani never has had a impact on winning and you know what holds people attentions? Winning. I'm sure he will win on a Dodgers team that has won 100+ Games the last three years, but if he can't win a World Series there he might be one of the overhyped athletes of the 21st century because all his greatest resulted in fuck all and gambling scandal... he be like the Anti-MJ, all the talent but a loser
How about Bill Russell?
Russell was the greatest winner maybe ever in the history of sports. For his time, he wasn’t as transformative or lightning rod a superstar as Wilt.
Michael Phelps and Usain Bolt got my generation to watch the Olympics
Mentioning McEnroe and Borg over Federer/Nadal? Wow where to even start.. Fed/Nadal had and will always have the greatest impact and shifted tennis in an immeasurable way. They transcended the modern game for the entire 00s/10s, are 2 of the best and most marketable athletes on the planet and have arguably one of the best rivalries which lasted nearly 2 decades (42 grand slams combined). Their global popularity is off the charts. Serena is on record saying Nadal is her idol. Even McEnroe would tell you they are the reason for what tennis is today, in fact he’s voiced it. Go watch Federer’s retirement at the Laver Cup and listen to former/current players discuss what he meant to the game. It’s not really a debate.
I won't argue globally, but in America, the Borg/ McEnroe era leading into the early 1980s had more of an influence on the culture. The news coverage was never greater. The stars were never more famous. It was peak tennis in the US.
Pele. Babe Ruth. Rocky Marciano. Secretariat. 1980 Olympic Hockey, Nadia Comonici, Dorothy Hammil, Bruce Jenner, Mark Spitz.
'70s Steelers, Mario Andretti, Dale Earnhardt Jr. , Lance Armstrong :(. Phelps, Bolt
All of these athletes inspired either/both insane coverage or an immense amount of kids to emulate/want to be them - even the horse.
As noted. Ali, Tiger, McGregor, Serena, McEnroe/Connors, Gretzky, Kareem, Magic/Bird, Jordan, Kobe, Curry
Roger Federer is an absolute no brainer on here. He transcended the sport like no one else and the emptiness without him is very much felt even with Novak Djokovic still playing at a high level.
2016 WS Cubs...not the same thing, but people were captivated as they hadn't won a WS in 108 years.
Shout out to Olga Korbut and Nadia Comaneci! Might not necessarily have shaped how gymnasts evolved, but certainly acquainted the olympic judges with the number '10'.
Miami football of the 80s, Florida gators with Teebow, Cubs/Indians world series, Tony Hawk deserve honorable mentions.
I have never watched highlights of any woman’s sport until a week ago. She has saved the wnba in a sense just for the eyeballs and clicks. I can’t name one person in wnba
Kobayashi 93 hamburgers 8 minutes
tiger woods golf definitely
Good job House not dancing around the race Part on Iowa
Usain Bolt in the Olympics was appointment viewing.
Allen Iverson??? He shifted the sport visually into how it looks visually today. Also Floyd Mayweather is a good one. Shohei Ohtani definitely.
Yeah, Allen Iverson and The Fab Five came to mind for me, too. 🤷🏻♂️
McGuire and Sosa need to be on this list
No mention of Federer when talking about Tennis???
Obvious Snubs:
Connor & Ronda - MMA
Floyd &’Manny - Boxing
Bolt & Phelps - Olympics
Tony Hawk - Skating
Tom & Peyton - NFL
How is a guy he explicitly named (Connor) an obvious snub?
The MLB draft happens during the college world series
Dale Earnhardt Sr., Jeff Gordon, and Dale Earnhardt Jr., really put NASCAR on the map in the 90s/early 2000s. When people think of NASCAR there is a good chance one of these 3 are mentioned.
Lol in Alabama and Mississippi lol they are talking about real sports on a national stage
@@NoName-cn3cp F1 was mentioned for a Netflix Show lol. There’s a reason NASCAR expanded out west to California, Texas, and Las Vegas in the 90s because of these guys. It’s a reason why NASCAR struggles today
I know skiing doesn’t draw well on TV but Mikaela Shiffrin is the best ever. When she came onto the scene she was so much faster than any other female shalom skier
Tiger Woods & the Williams sisters in tennis, no question. Jackie Robinson, Stephen Curry easy no brainers.
Bill saying the WNBA has too many teams immediately exposed he was talking out of his ass. 😂
TIGER WOOOODS
Ive been watchin all levels of basketball for over 50yrs, Magic Johnson was the best point guard known, there's some resemblance to Caitlin.
Landon Donovan and the 2010 US World Cup team drawing huge numbers and getting people to watch soccer at 9 in the morning on a weekday
Lance Armstrong. He's one of the GOAT
His urine samples might've come from goat.
Goat of cheating? Yes.
How do you not mention Federer/Nadal/Djokovic?
Nathan MacKinnon is getting to the level of "Oh my goodness, this guy is not like the others."
If he wins another cup... oh my gosh.
Bird & Magic brought the NBA back to life.
Babe Ruth and Bobby Orr changed the way their sports were played.
Who did what?
Shouting out the Fab 5 was ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as harping on about Nicklaus when there had already been an “Arnie’s Army for years.
@@poorchris I don't think I agree with that. They weren't in the argument for best teams of the 90's, but they were the most culturally relevant team and the one that drew the most attention. Players all over the country started trying to team up on high school and college teams to be a part of a "super team" instead of being the focal point of their own teams. Players wanted to team up with AAU teammates or opponents on college teams. I even wonder if that is part of the culture that drove Lebron and KD's choices in the NBA.
The long shorts, black socks, etc. I think there were much better teams that didn't have the same lasting impact. Much of that change wasn't good for the sport, maybe, but it made a big impact.
Their ESPN 30for30 was more impactful than their actual run in the 90s
The fab 5 got to championships game back to back years like Catlin Clark. Long shorts & black shocks. They actually had a TOUR of Europe playing Pro teams. 1st and only being done if you are truly stars 🌟.
For Hockey, being a New Englander - Bill should have said Bobby Orr who caused all my friends to get skates and take up hockey
Michael Jordan
Caitlin Clark
Tony Hawk
Hulk Hogan
Wayne Gretzky
Tiger Woods
Jeff Gordon
I forgot to put my little Debbie...Nutty Bars!
*Starcrunch
UFC Brock Lesner was killing PPV buys. Absolute monster and spread MMA to mainstream viability to casuals for sure.
Ken Griffey Jr? Bonds? Tim Tebow? Floyd Mayweather?
Tim Tebow? rofl. Taylor Swift has had a bigger impact on the NFL than a guy with 35 games played and 1 playoff win.
@@comrade_snarky if we're talking about bringing an audience to the sport, he did. But I agree he didn't change the game
@@petecastillo8216 The previously untapped NFL market of "Christians"
Dang you need some better sports idols
Its wild that the only thing i ever heard about the WNBA is it needs a way to get more eyes, put more asses in the seats, to make more money. And Caitlin Clark comes along, guaranteed to do all those things to some degree at least initially, as long as she isnt just a bust (doubtful). And you got WNBA players that may directly benefit from that via larger contracts in the future, talkin that shit. Very counter productive.
Part of it is jealousy and also job security. Theres only 12 teams and 144 spots. The league is like 1/3 the size of the NBA. Every year 36 girls are coming along.
Girls that have been McDonald's All Americans then college standouts have to fight tooth and nail to have a career.
Alexis Morris went from being a National champion shining on the big stage at LSU in the title game to not being able to land a team. Telling WNBA girls on Twitter:
"If yall pushing 35 years old....you need to retire and give someone else a chance" 😂😂
How is it talking ish? She was embarrassed by the athletic defenders on South Carolina. She'll be exposed more in the WNBA lol that's just truth
@@NoName-cn3cp she dropped 41 on those SC defenders in her career and embarrassed them as well.
@@FuShengAlex watch the game instead of just checking the box score.
@@NoName-cn3cp Duh....she beat both these teams on her career. You go watch the games instead
Can't believe Tom Brady wasnt mentioned
These guys trying to make a case for the Wnba is funny 😅😅
As a Canadian I think a WNBA team in Toronto would be awesome!
Tony hawk and Jeff Gordon come to mind
Sosa/McGwire
Steroids legends
Red Grange for the NFL.
Lance Armstrong
Totally, that’s easily the biggest one they missed here. The tour de france became so much more relevant in America because of him
Christian Pulisic and the entire US men’s team is gonna change the way America views mens soccer
Sea biscuit changed horse racing
Don't think Ali fits this idea. He was a top 10 P4P ATG in boxing, don't get me wrong, but he was as much an icon outside of the ring for taking a stand on social issues he believed in at a time when that wasn't done. The sport of boxing wasn't "elevated" after him tho. If anything boxing had been declining. It was far, far more culturally signifigant during the days of Dempsey and Joe Louis, if only because it was the biggest game in town.
Bo Jackson.
No
Billy Jean and Bobby Riggs
In last 10 years the biggest moment in sports was lebron coming back 1 3 vs thr 73 and 9 warriors ... I'm a warriors fan and I'd even admit that
I think we will have to see what happens in the WNBA and women's college basketball next year to determine if she was a true "sports shifter". Regardless lets enjoy the great months of women's basketball South Carolina, Caitlin, Juju, Brink and Paige gave us this year.
Usain Bolt is the biggest omission for me personally, he’s probably my favorite athlete of all time regardless of sport and I’ve never really given a shit about track and field sports. You could also make a case for Simone Biles as a mention, especially after the 2020 Olympics and subsequent comeback
André The Giant ?
Mischel phelps and Anderson Silva deserve to be there
Conor McGregor didn't really elevate MMA. He became famous to the point that non-MMA fans know who he is, but he didn't really bring non-MMA fans into the sport.
Roused should be mentioned
Brock Lesnar is the one who brought a massive non MMA fanbase to the UFC imo.
He 100% did. He blew Brocks numbers out of the water with organic growth, not because he was already super popular from something else.
UNLV Running Rebels
Uhhhh.. are we forgetting ‘Cool Runnings’??
TIGER TIGER TIGER
Dale Earnhardt and Jeff Gordon
Definitely.. I never got into NASCAR, but very familiar with both of them.. and they made the jackets look cool too.. (Ricky Bobby with the assist too)
Roy Jones Jr.
No bolt and Phelps is CRIMINAL
Can’t say McGregor without saying Rousey
I think we’re missing Beckham for soccer, Andre Agassi and Pete Sampras for Tennis, Chuck Liddell and then later Conor McGregor for MMA.
Conor for MMA is a good shout. Agassi and Sampras is a bad shout because Tennis had mega stars in the 80’s
@@isaacnewton3514 No doubt there are better all time players, but for sheer popularity and national recognition I would argue at a time nobody was bigger than Agassi surely, and Sampras.
arnold palmer for golf not nicklaus
Did y’all forget Shohei?
Young Mike Tyson was certainly the biggest draw and star in boxing since Ali. Though I still believe 80’s boxing was ultimately defined by the “4 kings” (Leonard, Duran, Hearns, Hagler)
Tiger woods bro
Oh no, I will not sit here and allow you to besmirch Larry Johnson's 4-point play
Tony Hawk
If you're only going by your lifetime, I can understand leaving Jackie Robinson and Babe Ruth off this list, but otherwise they're probably the 2 biggest ever in American sports.
Secretariat
Hogan and pro wrestling, stone cold also
Howard Cossell
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
Usain Bolt? Michael Phelps?
Carl Lewis created The professional track and field league! 😮