2020 KTM 500 EXC-F, TUNERS, ECUS, MAPS, MUFFLERS, AND CAP TESTING!
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2020
- today we're testing combinations of exhausts, tuners, ecu's and maps to understand how they all feel across a wide range of altitudes, ride conditions, terrain types and ride styles.
our test bike is a 2020 500 EXCF 500 with the following mod combinations during the test:
* stock muffler with pro moto billet end cap, resonator intact
* stock muffler with best dual sport bikes cap, resonator intact
* FMF 4.1 muffler
* reeds removed
*vented air box cover
*best dual sport bikes fuel rail
*Best Dual Sport Bikes (dobeck ejk) piggyback fuel tuner with programming values based on instructions.
*JD jetting Power Surge fuel tuner (set to open exhaust, off road)
* Dynojet Power Commander 5 with custom Taco Moto maps (2 maps with map switch, map 1 full power, map 2 off road / technical riding), Taco Moto Co. off road race only dongle
*Vortex ECU (using maps 1,2,3,7)
*GET ECU with custom Taco Moto maps (2 maps with map switch, map 1 race map honey badger mode, map 2 off road / technical riding)
the ride conditions today were:
* vegas desert 3500-4500', 90f
* intermediate desert 5k - 6k', 80f
* mountains 7500 - 8500', 70f
terrain ranged from highways, double track fire roads, jeep roads, sand washes, single track, technical rock sections, hill climbs.
the best combinations for power and smoothness was the GET ecu switching between the maps for conditions and any of the exhaust mods. the GPA traction control system is ace for hard enduro/off road and i set this box with TC authority at 6/10. the optional traction control knob allows modulating the TC level from 1-10, so map 2 was clutch in the loose stuff and hill climbs. the GET only flamed out one time on the uphill rock crawl and the GET also won our head to head dyno shoot out with all of these mods, video soon.
the vortex came next overall with very similar attributes for power with less adaptability in the maps compared to the GET and a lesser traction control algorithm. map 1 of both boxes brought all the ponies and pavement wheelies just had to happen. map 1 for either box was a hand full for the dirt but 3 and 7 seemed to do the best for the vortex and it only flamed out twice during the torture test.
the third best was the Dynojet Power Commander 5 with the newly developed Taco Moto Map set with only map 1 ready today for testing. map 2 will be a smoother more dirt friends map coming soon. the PC5 is a very clever piggyback tuner monitoring throttle position, crankshaft position and injector pulse width from the ecu. it calculates a modified injector pulse width from that data and the performance is really nothing short of amazing. i had to keep telling myself this is a stock ignition curve while riding it. roll on's are mega clean, the throttle has a wheel lifting punch that makes me laugh in my helmet, and the fueling is clean from the bottom to the top.
going from the two replacement ecu's to the PC5 you can feel the ignition curves for those boxes have been massaged as there's just a bit more of everything through the range, but the PC5 gets the fuel bang on and makes the stock map rip. the PC5 is also running open loop with the provided O2 race dongle. just as was the case with the ECU's the PC5 ran equally fantastic with the 4.1 and either end cap. i hate to say it was a draw here on that but it was pretty close overall. the only ding against the PC5 was 5 cough and stall flame outs in the gnar gnar torture test, but i'm confident running map 2 will solve that.
the final finisher in the line up was the Dobeck EJK sourced from best dual sport bikes. we didn't have the other components in the bundled power kit on for testing (grunt manifold, fuel filter, fuel 90, velocity stack) as they made no difference on the dyno when we tested the other day and i didn't take the time to throw them back on. i did notice though while making the video here we'd left the fuel rail on so that was a constant today through all the testing.
the BDSB tuner is an EJK with it's own unique fueling profile in the same way the JD tuner is the EJK with it's own unique fueling profile. we set it up per the instructions for the 2020 and let er' rip. on the street the tuner feel less responsive and punchy then the others with less power through the range. on the trail the reduced power and snap made the bike more manageable and forgiving with less chance of whisky throttle and power fatigue to the rider. this is all due to the O2 scrubbing away fuel from the adjustments it's making. it was noticeably better then the stock bike but not in the same league as the top 3 solutions. the JD tuner had virtually the same feel with a bit more through the mid to top.
if you have any questions on our bikes or tests you can reach us at:
mike@tacomoto.co
tacomoto.co/
join our KTM / Husqvarna tech talk facebook group:
groups/EXCFE... - Zábava
Mike, you're just killing it with these tests and reports. There's nothing even close to this anywhere else on the web. Huge amount of work and output, and it's much appreciated!
Thanks mate. We’re working hard to become the best in the biz at this stuff
Love the content Mike, learning so much from your simple breakdowns of a complex piece of machinery
Love the channel! Thanks for taking the time to do all the leg work and supply the best products.
Great video, thank you for all the very useful information. Considering a 2021, I am learning a lot from your channel.
Great stuff, Mike. Appreciate the video.
another informative video thank you!
Just picked up the 2021! The grey plastics look really good in person, wow. I love this bike thanks for the videos, helped me decide to definitely go 500 vs 350. Thanks for the videos!!!!
I just got my 2021 500! Looking for a tuner!!
@TJ Lassiter probably voids the warranty huh
My 2013 500 EXC purchased new was such a dog when I got it home. Best dual sports was doing a "magic mod" back in the day which completely fixed the bike. They don't do it anymore and probably illegal but never stalls out on technical stuff. Bike runs perfect and very strong.
Reporting back on my recent GET ECU purchase from TacoMoto for my 2020 KTM 500 EXC. It’s soo much better than the FI piggyback tuner I had on before. I was getting a lot of flame outs with the FI piggyback tuner. The GET ECU feels fantastic on the trails and flame outs are completely eliminated. Map 2 is perfect for the single track riding I was doing. The bike climbed hills so well. Obviously power is up, but the bike just feels so much more refined. Highly recommend doing it right and going with an ecu upgrade like the GET ecu with the TacoMoto maps. FMF pipe and reeds removed on my bike.
I think I was the first customer to get a 2020 500 GET from you shortly after this bike this bike hit the states had ,to wait two weeks for the tuner here in Texas to get the map developed for the 2020. This year is transformational even without the GET, but with the get it i s a slayer, I've added the KTM/Husky end cap, not sure if others out there will be better but seems okay as is. The bike has done the LA to Vegas run, John Zink enduro in Oklahoma, numerous TORCs many weekends in Sam Houston forest. I look forward to your further mods. Had to have the suspension done as I am an average size for Texas. This is the best bike I have ever bought from KTM out of the box.
Radical man. Glad you’re having a good time on the bike. 🤘🏽🤘🏽💪🏽💪🏽👌🏽👌🏽
First of all, awesome videos! Such informative content. If I could like them multiple times, I would.
Piggyback units take the output/input voltage signals between the ECU and sensors and alters them +/-. Whereas a stand replaces the ECU and you run off of the new maps flashed to the controller. There is no interruption of signals and you generally have much broader tuning capabilities. This is all coming from my turbocharged car days, but they all work the same, generally.
What would be really nice is if the OEM ECU had EPROM. You would just need a means of reflashing the ECU to make adjustments.
The fuel tuner, only captures the injector pulses, it doesnt connect anywhere else, the ecu has full control with sensors. The fuel tuners even work with the after market Full ECU's quite well, gives them a wider range and easy adjustability with the mapping.
really love the channel Mike, amazing content lately! So that means that for 2020+ bikes its either GET or Vortex correct?
so there's really good options here. obviously the GET and vortex are what they are, full replacement ECU's with the features and benefits of that at $700 and $900 and at the top of all metrics for performance.
then you have the new Power Commander option out in a week or so for $399 which is a real sweet spot now for price, and the performance gains are striking.
on the new breed of O2 equipped bikes, the EJK based piggy back options will have issues fighting the deductions the ecu imposes on the fuel scheme from the highly active sensor. they still show gains in power over stock on the dyno and in the saddle, but they represent a decidedly second step option compared to the top 3 in the test.
the only way the EJK tuners work better is without the influence of the O2 sensor which if unplugged will trip a code.
and as always, the disclaimer is these are off highway race bikes we're riding and working on here as the removal or modification of emissions control equipment is a violation of local and federal emissions laws.
Great. Tech. Video.
Great video. I’ve got this bike and rode it with the stock tires (no bueno). Then put on a set of GT 216/333 w Tubliss and it’s way better. Would be curious to hear this same analysis with a much better set of tires than the stock.
Great video. What power commander did you put on your bike? Cause I looked every and can’t find one for 2020 model 500 exc-f. Only goes up to 2019 even on power commanders websight.
Have a 2022, totally stock engine. Runs really well... but is pretty gutless after the mid-midrange. No popping, stalling, or other weird stuff. Is slightly lean on a barely cracked throttle, but most people probably would not notice it. I must admit I did expect a modern HO 500cc engine to have a bit more beans. Does have a nice low end and fine throttle control is really good.
When you install mousses the front end feels totally different. Inner tubes with air have a different reaction than with mousses...
My 2018 desmogged, with BDS bikes version of JD Tuner and BDS exhaust end cap, 2 Nitro mousses is totally amazing. I use it off road only, amazing torque and power. 14-52 gearing. Never flames out now, but stock with the smog equip. it did all the time.
You do have me now wondering about the GETT ECU or a VORTEX, just to feel the difference it might make.
Good video, thanks.
The difference is night and day w a replacement ecu over an EJK tuner 🛴🔥🚀
The 2020 EXC has a narrow band O2 sensor. The bikes ECU is looking only for a narrow AFR band targeting stoichiometric. It’s not a wideband O2, running close d loop. Its also not looking for lambda. ratios, rather narrow band AFR only. The Vortex runs on a open loop , (completely ignoring the stock O2 sensor), where the dynamometer, vortex software, and the tuner dial in the parameters via lambda. Remember different fuels have different stoichiometric values. If a tuner is looking at wideband in AFR and runs let’s say E 85 his tune will be completely off. Lambda doesn’t care which fuel you use . it’s stoichiometric value is always a value of one.
Good info tony. Thanks for that mate👌🏽
less than 10Hrs on new KTM 500. Mike I have been watching your AWSOME vids for a year now great stuff. will be ordering some good stuff soon. I see all your power bundles is all sold out. Any idea on restock?
We don’t have ‘power bundles’
Not exactly sure what you might be referring to
Hey great video, you seem to have a lot of knowledge about these bikes. I’m in the middle of a building up a 2017 KTM 500 and after I did a bunch of research I settled on a best dual sport bikes piggy back tuner and end cap as a start for power. I was about to take the reeds out but after what you said I’m going to wait. Have you tried best dual sport bikes intake tube? Also what have you seen as the best setup using the best dual sport products? I don’t ride wide open very often. Thanks man you rock keep up the great videos
I think you’ll be happy with the end cap and tuner. We’ve tested that to doo results so follow the instructions on tuning numbers and let r rip.
As for the reeds, you might want to experiment with riding the bike w them in and gaining experience with the power then remove and ride again to determine a complete before and after baseline.
TACO MOTO CO much appreciated! Thanks for taking the time to write back. Cheers
I'm waiting delivery of my 2022 500 EXC-F. I've been told by the dealer that KTM made it so you can't remap this bike. Do you have any insight into this? Love your vids. Picked up many ideas that I will incorporate into my bike when it finally gets here.
Another question Mike: how do you compare map 1 Vortex vs map 1 GET? Thanks
I need to sort the suspension of my ‘21 500 before even thinking about ECU mod. It is a great bike, but when you start hitting ruts and whoops at speed, it is way soft.
If understand correctly, with the Power Commander you still get gear-dependent power delivery that KTM has programmed into the ECU. Is that so?
Thank U,xcw need U to do with reeds.
Thanks for the great info!
I always have to max the volume on your video's, enev on my T.V.
Is there way you can up the volume on your end?
Hmmmm, I haven’t heard this before but thanks for the feedback I’ll have to look into that
@@TACOMOTOCO agree with both haha - thank YOU so much for the good info on these videos - but the audio is tough, its more so tough to hear what you are saying without cranking it, I can tell you are talking, but its picking up a ton of sound.
@@TACOMOTOCO I have the same volume issue. Especially with your deep dive/myth buster videos… great info! Thank you for all the work you put into these!
Have you try EU ECU vs GET ECU? How did they compared?
Will these work for the 2021 500 exc-f? This is my first fuel injected bike so I’m researching what to get
Does Power Commander work with the stock XCF-W map switch?
I have an xcw with FMF Q4 , reeds removed and a JD tuner. Am I going to do harm with the JD ? Your comment on previous question said its not able to override O2 sensor. Not good. Please respond, I dont want to hurt this engine. Btw I get no cough and stall AFTER warm up.
So I just got a 2020 500, Im trying to find a new map for exhaust + de reed for street riding, want a simple build but this seems a little too much in the air. Is there anyone that gets simple stuff like FMF full exhaust, DE-emission the bike, o2 sensor new map ect. What would a good place to figure this out? Just trying to get up to the EU stock power from the USA version.
Good information on 'flame out' condition with mods to the 500EXC. In Northern CA and NV, we see trails like this all the time. Would like to see your best recommendation on how to eliminate it entirely for the 500 EXC or XCF models. Super Senior (300XC-W) looking at 500 XCF, how would you set it up closest to stock, to achieve optimum ride-ability, reliability and performance/mileage?
Ride it stock. For most riders that’s the bike ‘formula’ that will give you what you’re after I think
@@TACOMOTOCO Since I dump my bike occasionally, thinking to remove the charcoal canister stuff so I don't have issues and lose fuel. And possibly add the Fastway USFS approved endcap/spark arrestor to open it up a little. Would the stock ECU function properly and bike run fine with just those 2 changes?
Hi Mike. Great video, love the objective, well articulated info. I agree with you regarding the reeds removed. My bike just dug holes/no traction with the reeds removed. Way too much torque off idle. Total PIA for hill climbs. I'm gonna re-install them.
Nice comment and feedback. I’m not a pure fan of them in or out. So much depends on the rider and his use. Glad to hear your experience. Interested in hearing back with your thoughts once they go back in
Does JD Tuner do better, if the O2 is unplugged?
Is there a power commander option for the TPI 2 strokes? Can't decided between the GET or a piggy back tuner for my 2020 300xc TPI. I'm not sure I really need to change the ignition, it just feels like it could use a little more fuel, especially down low. Do these tuner also let you increase how much oil is injected?
Not yet
But the GET ecu will let you do everything you just mentioned
Another great, informative vid, Mike. I’m wondering if the O2 sensor is as aggressive on the XCF’s as it is on the EXC’s. I have the EJK on my 350 XCFW and I’m curious if the O2 sensor is completely defeating that device. Thanks for any input!
Yes it is I’m afraid 😢
Is it worth a e85 tune. I can get e85 everywhere.
Hey man let's see some video of you riding this section...
I have a 2020 KTM 500 EXC, reeds removed, FMF muffler, JD Jetting FI Tuner. I’m getting a lot of flame outs / cough and stall. Sometimes when cold, sometimes during heavy deceleration. Should I adjust the TPS, idle screw OR the JD Jetting idle setting? Any advice would be very much appreciated, thank you. I’ve watched your videos on the throttle body and TPS. Seems like it’s still not getting enough fuel at low rpms?
Ended up ordering the GET ECU from your site because of this video. Very excited to try it out!
Check base idle
rpm
Moto Monkeys how did it work out for ya
tjlovesrachel Fantastic. The GET ECU with the Taco Moto maps eliminated flame outs, bike starts easier, and pulls like crazy. Well worth the money.
Did you have to richen up the Vortex or the GET for the vented airbox cover?
That 1guy I had the same question and Vortex said no, their maps are rich enough
Mike is it possible to use the dongle to eliminate the o2 sensor input for offroad with the Jd tunner. To get better results from the jd tunner. If not anyone wanna buy a JD tunner for a 2022 :)
Yes
Does the power commander for the 2020 500exc come with a dongle for the o2 and an o2 plug?
The Power Commander comes with the needed equipment to fuel the bike correctly without the O2 muting out the additional fueling it provides 🤘🏽😎
Do you reckon that vented air box cover will fit a 2017 Ktm excf
No, it’s a 20+ piece
Jd ,told me his tuner will adjust a Vortex or a Get, basically will work with any ecu.
He also told me the 2020 02 sensor'ed bikes, are only in closed loop mode at steady throttle settings, other wise it goes into open loop mode when throttle is moving.
Or basically the stock o2'd bike over rides the tuner at sustained throttle and leans the bike out, like with street use.
we've seen on the dyno / sniffer where the ecu is actively scrubbing the results of the tuner at all throttle settings after warm up.
on the non O2 bikes that's not the case at all and the EJK family of tuners perform really well and don's suffer from this issue.
Oh nice video on the different configs
Does the power commander have an accelerator pump feature?
YES🛴🔥🚀
will the 02 sensor of ktm plug into dynajet module?
No
idk how you even ride offroad with the stock tires i had to replace mine right away there so bad
where are you guys finding the pc5 for the 2020 model i only found it for the 2019. is it the same one?
They come from us. Our own custom tune and configuration for the 2020’s
tacomoto.co/products/taco-moto-co-dynojet-power-commander-5
@TACO MOTO CO unfortunately the install video for this isn’t working! Looks fairly simple
Unfortunately Dynojet PCV fitment list for Husky/KTM is a mess, one fits the 450EXC but not the 500EXC or the fact they have different PN for Husqvarna models which share the same engine and electronics as KTM. I have to do some tests but IMHO the 18-025 unit should fit perfectly all the EXCF and FE lineup with the added bonus of ignition control (if you check their website again the fitment list is bizarre).
On the OEM O2 discussion, Dynojet stopped shipping the O2 dongle with their PCV's for legal concerns. It defeat's the purpose leaving it plugged and then try to control the closed loop area of the map where the OEM o2 sensor works. Same problem with the big bike lineup (690/990/1190/1290) and a lot of tuners (Rotweiller etc) have demonstrated the flaw of letting the O2 plugged.
These don’t come from DynoJet. They’re a Taco Moto Co exclusive item 😎
@@TACOMOTOCO cool, I've seen you guys took the liberty to rearrange Dynojet list how it should be, again the fitment guys on their site is a mess. But why not using the 18-025 unit that has an ignition table / ignition control. That would be a huge bonus over the Dobeck EJK piggyback unit, and would bring it close to the standalone ECU's. Glad to hear the PCV yield good results, I use them on a lot of LC4s (690/701) and working with the Autotune makes a relatively cheap way to create custom maps without the need of an expensive dyno.
We buy blank PC5’s and set them up the Taco Moto way and remedy with O2 issue w a custom work around 😎
is the airbox cover from the sxf 450?
Yes it is, I wonder why he didn’t get the orange one though? I have the white one my mine it is the Six Days
I’d like to buy a full ECU for my 2021 KTM500EXC. Do you sell them?
Sure do
www.tacomoto.co
Get the vortec ecu
Do you sell a performance package?
Yep🤘🏽
Call us Monday
www.tacomoto.co
Can anyone tell me if they make a fmf slip on yet for the 2020 exc. can’t seem to find one
We have them.
tacomoto.co/products/fmf-ktm-facotry-replica-4-1-titanium-silencer-w-carbon-end-cap
Is the FMF slip on you sell street legal? Is it a silencer with a spark arrestor?
Damn... making me regret getting the best dual sport set up. Had the Vortex on my '17 and it was amazing. I'm having flame out issues off idol with my best dual sport programer. Knew I should've dropped the coin for the vortex. :-/
The dobeck ejk is a decent little tuner. It’s not that sophisticated with the fuel management calculations but it’s a good device for the money. Take a look at the power commander. And then there’s the vortex or GET. Now you’re really hauling the mail.
@bdb3011 Also having flame out issues with this box. Have you been able to solve this? Thanks
bdb3011 what year is your bike?
Joe Rodriquez It’s spendy, but the GET ecu solved it. I’m sure the Vortex would as well
tjlovesrachel 2020 500 exc-f
Seems like a lot of money for a stock bike that won't climb that hill.
Elevation is 800 here
It's too bad after buying a new bike you have to get a ECU so it's can run better it's gets expensive
Your volume is bad...
Electric bikes....Neverrrrrrr