You were able to melt way more aluminium than I did. I don't have an auxiliary blower on my propane burner and the nozzle size is quite small so it's a bit like a giant Bunsen burner. This is what really makes my propane burner slow. I also have solid cast refractory so there's a lot of thermal mass. Still, the diesel burner is quicker so it's a winner for me.😊
I am surprised that you did not try to use a blower with propane first before trying a diesel burner. You would have found that a blower makes a big difference to melting time with propane. Also you could have put a thin layer of ceramic fiber inside the cast refractory to speed up the melt.
I made my propane burner and it just worked so I didn't mess with it. I just thought that all propane burners were that slow. The diesel burner seemed like a slightly bonkers solution and the mad nature of it applealed to my inner nerd! 😁
I think that it is very difficult to compare melt rates of different fuels when two different furnaces are being used. There are just too many other factors involved. Age of crucible is a big factor as they lose conductivity with use. Furnace lining material e.g. Blanket against way more conducting and heat soaking cast ceramic or solid brick. Air fuel ratio - most heat at (usually) 2% excess oxygen - self aspirating burners don't pull enough air. For interest though my furnace will melt 33 Kg aluminium in about 45 minutes, burns diesel via a good burner fed with a good blower but furnace is made from a heavy conductive castable. I consider melt times fairly irrelevant, as long as it gets there - one can enjoy a cuppa while waiting 😊. That amount of metal is about $180.00 worth and I use maybe 5 to 7 liters of diesel at a cost of about $15.00 castings produced about $700.00 - so to me the fuel cost is a minor thing that I do not worry about..... Martin PS, I note the mention of 1600 deg C below in a comment - Hmm - I think not! - Without preheat of air (lots of preheat) or oxygen enrichment not a chance of getting metal to 1600 C anything over 1400 C is pushing it. (Uphill with a pointy stick😊)
My thoughts exactly. My first furnace was solid refractory and took an age on first melt but subsequent melts much quicker. Also my next furnace was ceramic fibre lined job and is super fast to heat. I find propane much cheaper to run on my naturally aspirated burner compared to my diesel burner as the fuel is so expensive in the UK at the moment, despite it being faster than propane. Again, as you say, doing it slower isn't a problem since I could wind up the propane pressure but don't feel the need to. There is defined amount of energy required to melt a given mass but the efficiency of the furnace at different flow rates affects the end result as you can be chucking more out the exhaust. Good to see you online again Martin. 🙂
olfoundryman and lukygen are the leading authority in youtub casting. they both have very good advice when they teach you info listen and learn. these guys have been casting ever since they discovered matches
Gas is easy but expensive, and diesel is expensive as well. I will keep my waste oil burner setup as I can afford it... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 It will melt almost everything you throw into it. Thanks for the info Luckygen1001, Great content again!!!
That is why I use waste oil with cast iron and use propane to melt non ferrous metals. Cast iron uses a lot more fuel because of the higher melting point and pour temp.
@@luckygen1001 exactly right! I also loved the "hovercraft" capability of these old girls, however in reality this function probably reduced the vacuum capability, but not by much. Wish I still had our one from the 60's.
@@luckygen1001 In my neighborhood when I do an "asset recovery sweep" it is not unusual to see 2 or more vacuums/ sweepers roadside, they are the epitome of planned obsolescence.
Great video, I would like to see lost wax casting, ceramic shell and other methods in the future. I'm sure there are many people willing to give you any printed 3d model you require.
I guess it comes down to how much of your chosen fuel you can burn in a given time. I appreciate the specifics of fuel used, pressure, how much metal melted etc. What orfice size used? Do you have a video on the design of your burner used in this demo?
There is no orfice because none is needed. This burner is the simplest one you can make. It is a straight pipe with a propane connection anywhere along the pipe or feed propane into a blower inlet. DO NOT FEED PROPANE INTO A VACUUM CLEANER!
That is about where I am with melting aluminum. I melt about 3 kilos of aluminum in 15 to 20 minutes with a venturi burner connected to a 5 gallon propane tank. That might be reduced a bit with a blower but then I would have to put up with the additional noise. The same set up will melt about the same 3 kilos of copper or bronze in about 30 minutes.
I see on utube that size of the furnace and how much gas per minute burn is a direct correlation to time of melts. Seen many guys build furnaces and it was to cold to melt some metals. Some had to put in 2 burners because of the furnace size.
I have seen many furnaces running in commercial foundries and I have never seen one that has more than one burner, propane or diesel. If a larger furnace will not get up to temp they should look else where as to why that is happening.
I use a 1 inch burner tube with a shop vac and it gets up to 1600degrees Celsius. It melts very quickly so I don't know what mark was doing. I did watch his videos on making his new desiel set up.
@@luckygen1001 Only 55 minutes to melt iron? In this video it took 2 hours! Why is it so fast with you? "Melting cast iron at home - Element Cube Collection (DIY)" - Jakob Halskov
Obviously a lot more energy in diesel than LPG but I also think it comes down to how hard you are running the furnace. I am confident I could melt this much Ally in 5 min flat or less and not even in a proper refractory lined furnace. It's just a matter of how much energy you want to throw at the job. I have Vids where I melted Cylinder heads weighing around 9 KG from memory in an open brick lined 44 gallon drum in under 5 min and it could have been a lot faster with pumping the fuel instead of gravity feed. I can easy throw 200KW+ At the job with my waste oil burners so if time is the factor, then that's how you do it. I would guess this furnace is doing around 10-15KW looking at the size and the flame. Many other factors involved as well such as residence time of the flame, height and position of the crucible, gas flows etc. I don't know what the Max delivery rate is with an LPG bottle, on a hot day a large bottle may keep up with a waste oil burner to a point and if you needed more, then one could parallel 2 Bottles to get sufficient draw off. Efficiency and cost are different parameters but if one is merely looking at time, then I would suggest it simply comes down to burn rate. I believe one could achieve whatever time one wanted if set up right. May take 4 Bottles of LPG to get the sustained energy output one could easy do with waste oil or LPG but If that was the goal, I don't see a problem in achieving it if cost is not a factor. If one is going to bring other parameters into the equation like cost, then there is no comparison in the energy contained in liquid fuels or the cost or lack thereof for running waste oil. I haven't crunched the numbers for a few years but from memory, the cost per KW of energy was slightly lower with Diesel than LPG. On current prices that may have changed. One would have to lookup the respective costs in their area and compare the energy content to see which one was more economical.... if that was a factor. Given what I can easily do with waste oil for nothing, that would be my prefered energy source but others may not be as familiar with running it and prefer gas even if it is much more expensive.
This furnace was built 28 years ago and was my furnace to melt cast iron not steel. Back then propane was expensive to buy as it is today. That led me to make a waste oil furnace for melting cast iron. Since then this furnace melts only non ferrous metals. With my waste oil furnace I melt cast iron first and then add steel as it dissolves in cast iron. If I try to melt steel in my waste oil furnace it oxidizes completely and no steel is left. How to I know this? because I have tried this a few times.
Ah so it is possible to melt cast iron with propane. I don’t have a furnace yet, but I like propane for a few reasons. Is there anything important I should consider when building one. Thank you.
@@luckygen1001 That's just people throwing away working units, because everything is throwaway these days. almost every single one I have picked up on the side of the road or in the bin was working just fine. often it's just a clogged filter that slows the machine. there are also cases where people use dry vacuums as wet vacuums and well, that goes as well as one could expect... so in the bin it goes
All advantages of the propane burner (easy to build and run) are irrelevant if comparing it to burner run on free waste oil. In this case propane cost (2.27kg) would be around $9AU which is prohibitive for busy home/hobby foundry on the budget.
So, which one you use for cast iron: oil or diesel (Martin's choice)? I building one with 3 swappable fuel modules, each for oil, diesel or propane. Did melt cast iron in small furnace and it took around 40 min. Now for my 200L drum furnace, there is a need for more BTUs@@luckygen1001
Only 55 minutes to melt iron? In this video it took 2 hours! Why is it so fast with you? "Melting cast iron at home - Element Cube Collection (DIY)" - Jakob Halskov
Don't forget to check out Mark Presling youtbe channel and his video series Diesel foundry burner part 1 if you want to use diesel instead of propane.
You were able to melt way more aluminium than I did. I don't have an auxiliary blower on my propane burner and the nozzle size is quite small so it's a bit like a giant Bunsen burner. This is what really makes my propane burner slow. I also have solid cast refractory so there's a lot of thermal mass. Still, the diesel burner is quicker so it's a winner for me.😊
Preso. I like your burner and furnace better. it has class and its stylish and Moden.
I am surprised that you did not try to use a blower with propane first before trying a diesel burner. You would have found that a blower makes a big difference to melting time with propane. Also you could have put a thin layer of ceramic fiber inside the cast refractory to speed up the melt.
I made my propane burner and it just worked so I didn't mess with it. I just thought that all propane burners were that slow. The diesel burner seemed like a slightly bonkers solution and the mad nature of it applealed to my inner nerd! 😁
Yep too late now, you've got the diesel burner running really well no need to go back to propane.@@Preso58
Awesome demonstration, really impressed with the speed of the melt. Greetings from across the ditch.
I think that it is very difficult to compare melt rates of different fuels when two different furnaces are being used. There are just too many other factors involved. Age of crucible is a big factor as they lose conductivity with use. Furnace lining material e.g. Blanket against way more conducting and heat soaking cast ceramic or solid brick. Air fuel ratio - most heat at (usually) 2% excess oxygen - self aspirating burners don't pull enough air. For interest though my furnace will melt 33 Kg aluminium in about 45 minutes, burns diesel via a good burner fed with a good blower but furnace is made from a heavy conductive castable. I consider melt times fairly irrelevant, as long as it gets there - one can enjoy a cuppa while waiting 😊. That amount of metal is about $180.00 worth and I use maybe 5 to 7 liters of diesel at a cost of about $15.00 castings produced about $700.00 - so to me the fuel cost is a minor thing that I do not worry about..... Martin
PS, I note the mention of 1600 deg C below in a comment - Hmm - I think not! - Without preheat of air (lots of preheat) or oxygen enrichment not a chance of getting metal to 1600 C anything over 1400 C is pushing it. (Uphill with a pointy stick😊)
My thoughts exactly. My first furnace was solid refractory and took an age on first melt but subsequent melts much quicker.
Also my next furnace was ceramic fibre lined job and is super fast to heat.
I find propane much cheaper to run on my naturally aspirated burner compared to my diesel burner as the fuel is so expensive in the UK at the moment, despite it being faster than propane.
Again, as you say, doing it slower isn't a problem since I could wind up the propane pressure but don't feel the need to.
There is defined amount of energy required to melt a given mass but the efficiency of the furnace at different flow rates affects the end result as you can be chucking more out the exhaust.
Good to see you online again Martin. 🙂
olfoundryman and lukygen are the leading authority in youtub casting. they both have very good advice when they teach you info listen and learn. these guys have been casting ever since they discovered matches
Awesome. Great to see.
Love the old vacuum Lucky! 😍
So do I and in 50 years time it will still be working!
@@luckygen1001 Unlike us!
Very interesting video. Thank you for sharing the information. I've been on the fence of building a propane or diesel furnace.
It is important that you use a blower with propane otherwise slower melting times will result and It is up to you as to which fuel you decide to use
Love your content, I always learn something and will be doing casting soon. Thanks. Wish we could get you a higher resolution camera!
Maybe one day!
Gas is easy but expensive, and diesel is expensive as well.
I will keep my waste oil burner setup as I can afford it... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It will melt almost everything you throw into it.
Thanks for the info Luckygen1001, Great content again!!!
That is why I use waste oil with cast iron and use propane to melt non ferrous metals. Cast iron uses a lot more fuel because of the higher melting point and pour temp.
Love a basic no fuss setup. Also love the old Hoover. They were a great little machine.
Far better than the modern ones that last about a couple of years and end up in landfill.
@@luckygen1001 exactly right! I also loved the "hovercraft" capability of these old girls, however in reality this function probably reduced the vacuum capability, but not by much. Wish I still had our one from the 60's.
@@luckygen1001 In my neighborhood when I do an "asset recovery sweep" it is not unusual to see 2 or more vacuums/ sweepers roadside, they are the epitome of planned obsolescence.
Great video, I would like to see lost wax casting, ceramic shell and other methods in the future. I'm sure there are many people willing to give you any printed 3d model you require.
Nice experience brother 👏👏👏
Thanks for watching.
I guess it comes down to how much of your chosen fuel you can burn in a given time. I appreciate the specifics of fuel used, pressure, how much metal melted etc. What orfice size used? Do you have a video on the design of your burner used in this demo?
There is no orfice because none is needed. This burner is the simplest one you can make. It is a straight pipe with a propane connection anywhere along the pipe or feed propane into a blower inlet. DO NOT FEED PROPANE INTO A VACUUM CLEANER!
Great video! What kind of material are you using for the gasket? Is that thin furnace wool, or something like inswool paper?
It is kaowool, it is rated for 1400C
Neat! Thanks!
Thanks for watching.
That is about where I am with melting aluminum. I melt about 3 kilos of aluminum in 15 to 20 minutes with a venturi burner connected to a 5 gallon propane tank. That might be reduced a bit with a blower but then I would have to put up with the additional noise. The same set up will melt about the same 3 kilos of copper or bronze in about 30 minutes.
You should tell Mark Presling that.
I see on utube that size of the furnace and how much gas per minute burn is a direct correlation to time of melts. Seen many guys build furnaces and it was to cold to melt some metals. Some had to put in 2 burners because of the furnace size.
I have seen many furnaces running in commercial foundries and I have never seen one that has more than one burner, propane or diesel. If a larger furnace will not get up to temp they should look else where as to why that is happening.
I use a 1 inch burner tube with a shop vac and it gets up to 1600degrees Celsius. It melts very quickly so I don't know what mark was doing.
I did watch his videos on making his new desiel set up.
He never used a blower on his propane burner so on his new diesel burner he used a blower and it makes a lot of difference.
Absolutely a blower makes a big difference. My problem I had was too much air pressure. I put in a tap to regulate the air.
@@luckygen1001that was my first guess, naturally aspirated (Venturi) burners are way slower than forced air in my experience.
On my own small furnace I use a hairdryer plugged into a dimmer switch to regulate the flow, works great, even on my small PV systems little inverter!
That is a great way to regulate the speed of your hairdryer.@@Teklectic
Melting cast iron takes how long. Or give a link if you said it somewhere.
55 minutes for 14Kgs.
@@luckygen1001 Only 55 minutes to melt iron? In this video it took 2 hours! Why is it so fast with you? "Melting cast iron at home - Element Cube Collection (DIY)" - Jakob Halskov
What size propane jet do you use?
No need for a jet, I use a 6.5mm copper pipe inside dia to feed propane into my burner.
How about melting cast iron? Does the propane furnace reach temperatures above 1300c?
Luckygen1001 has melted cast iron with the same LPG set-up. He has a video on it.
Yes it does.
Obviously a lot more energy in diesel than LPG but I also think it comes down to how hard you are running the furnace. I am confident I could melt this much Ally in 5 min flat or less
and not even in a proper refractory lined furnace. It's just a matter of how much energy you want to throw at the job.
I have Vids where I melted Cylinder heads weighing around 9 KG from memory in an open brick lined 44 gallon drum in under 5 min and it could have been a lot faster with pumping the fuel instead of gravity feed. I can easy throw 200KW+ At the job with my waste oil burners so if time is the factor, then that's how you do it. I would guess this furnace is doing around 10-15KW looking at the size and the flame.
Many other factors involved as well such as residence time of the flame, height and position of the crucible, gas flows etc.
I don't know what the Max delivery rate is with an LPG bottle, on a hot day a large bottle may keep up with a waste oil burner to a point and if you needed more, then one could parallel 2 Bottles to get sufficient draw off.
Efficiency and cost are different parameters but if one is merely looking at time, then I would suggest it simply comes down to burn rate. I believe one could achieve whatever time one wanted if set up right. May take 4 Bottles of LPG to get the sustained energy output one could easy do with waste oil or LPG but If that was the goal, I don't see a problem in achieving it if cost is not a factor.
If one is going to bring other parameters into the equation like cost, then there is no comparison in the energy contained in liquid fuels or the cost or lack thereof for running waste oil. I haven't crunched the numbers for a few years but from memory, the cost per KW of energy was slightly lower with Diesel than LPG. On current prices that may have changed. One would have to lookup the respective costs in their area and compare the energy content to see which one was more economical.... if that was a factor.
Given what I can easily do with waste oil for nothing, that would be my prefered energy source but others may not be as familiar with running it and prefer gas even if it is much more expensive.
Good to see you again.
Mr Luckygen, I’ve seen you melt iron or steel many times. Is this the furnace you use?
This furnace was built 28 years ago and was my furnace to melt cast iron not steel. Back then propane was expensive to buy as it is today. That led me to make a waste oil furnace for melting cast iron. Since then this furnace melts only non ferrous metals. With my waste oil furnace I melt cast iron first and then add steel as it dissolves in cast iron. If I try to melt steel in my waste oil furnace it oxidizes completely and no steel is left. How to I know this? because I have tried this a few times.
Ah so it is possible to melt cast iron with propane. I don’t have a furnace yet, but I like propane for a few reasons. Is there anything important I should consider when building one. Thank you.
@@luckygen1001 Never mind the question, I just found your video about melting iron with propane. 👍
Hello family, can any one share me something about cupola furnace Please
Interesting as always.
Of course a 60s vacuum still works in 2023. A 2023 one might not work in 2024.
So true I see so many vacuum cleaners in hard rubbish and they look almost new.
@@luckygen1001 That's just people throwing away working units, because everything is throwaway these days. almost every single one I have picked up on the side of the road or in the bin was working just fine. often it's just a clogged filter that slows the machine. there are also cases where people use dry vacuums as wet vacuums and well, that goes as well as one could expect... so in the bin it goes
A lot of the cordless units I find are the same, blocked up because no one cleans them. It is a great source of lithium batteries.@@LateNightHacks
All advantages of the propane burner (easy to build and run) are irrelevant if comparing it to burner run on free waste oil. In this case propane cost (2.27kg) would be around $9AU which is prohibitive for busy home/hobby foundry on the budget.
This is why I don't use it when melting cast iron.
So, which one you use for cast iron: oil or diesel (Martin's choice)? I building one with 3 swappable fuel modules, each for oil, diesel or propane. Did melt cast iron in small furnace and it took around 40 min. Now for my 200L drum furnace, there is a need for more BTUs@@luckygen1001
Only 55 minutes to melt iron? In this video it took 2 hours! Why is it so fast with you? "Melting cast iron at home - Element Cube Collection (DIY)" - Jakob Halskov
He is doing something wrong when it takes 2 hours.
please buy a better camera and microphone, it look like recorded 10 years ago
Did you watch the video all the way to the end and then complain about the video quality?