Alvin Plantinga - Big Pictures of God
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
- To consider God seriously, where to start? To try to see the big picture of God, what are the questions? What are the categories? What would be the prime attributes or traits of a Supreme Being, the supposed Creator of the universe? What would be God's essence and nature, purposes and plans? What can be said for God and against God?
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Alvin Carl Plantinga is an American analytic philosopher, the John A. O'Brien Professor of Philosophy Emeritus at the University of Notre Dame and the inaugural holder of the Jellema Chair in Philosophy at Calvin College.
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Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
I love the channel, but his name is Alvin Plantinga, not Platinga. Please, fix it.
I think it isn't so much a basic instinct to want to worship something, but rather it comes from the innate belief that there must be something better than us.
Most of the earliest gods were worshipped only because people thought if they didn't then they'd get killed or have bad luck
The Roman's believed that. Even if you didn't have your heart in it,doing the rituals/prayers was necessary for good fortune and wealth.
Exactly, the evolution of a good concept is easily traceable from the spirits if the wind, river and volcano, to other god concepts and eventually lead to a ridiculous and contradictory concept of a tri-omni god. His suggestion that people have always had an innate sense that a god like the Abrahamic god exists, is 100% false and falsifiable. The fact that he could water his entire life, and end up with this drivel is simply sad.
@@visforvegan8 as a pantheist nature being god makes more sense than a literal being. I mean we are literally living on it right now lol.
@@joenathan8059 What is the benefit of calling that "God"? We already have a word for it: "nature".
@@theMosen because its something higher than us and like what what most religions say were connected to it
If the there where a timeless omnipotent being why would it expect us to spend one moment of our short lives to worship it?
I don’t think a being like that would be worthy of worship at all.
Worshiping this being wouldn't, presumably, be for the benefit of this being. It'd be for our benefit--it'd allow us to see a deeper meaning in life, to communion with goodness, and to come into a deeper loving knowledge.
TMM's response: czcams.com/video/aUGAGKXne4g/video.html
Thanks for posting. Brought me here, too. This poor man has wasted his entire life for all to see.
@@visforvegan8 I partially disagree. Plantinga, Craig, etc. make a lot of money thanks to that god thing. So, not entirely wasted.
The whole idea of "worship" seems strange to me. Why would we worship anything?
Also, why would anything require to be worshiped.
Entities requiring us to worship them is not worthy of worship.
To answer your question, just analyze what we mean when we say "worship." We mean to love, to care for, to focus on, to give. If God is a supremely loving and good person, then it seems that worshiping him (in the sense I explained) would be the only right response!
@@Debiginger "If God is a supremely loving and good person" - I suggest you read the bible yourself, to rid you of such childish notions.
@@freddan6fly Nothing I wrote depended on the Bible.
And to think that the real intellectuals are in the comment section.
Really? I don't consider myself to have a highly developed intellect. In fact, my "chemo-brain" needs a lot more intellectual stimulation. That's one reason I watch CLOSER TO TRUTH !
@@johnbrzykcy3076 In the end "truth" is only wishful thinking
@@DrBased Yes, no one knows what happens after you die. It's all wishful thinking
@@DrBased How?
@@anti-loganpaul7827 Oh, I know, I know! I've been to a funerals several times in my life! Do you want to know what happens at a funeral, considering you don't know what happens with a dead person?
God's are always geologically isolated. Indicating that they were developed by the society in that area. Even Jesus could not go worldwide to pass on his message. But only as far as his feet could take him. Which seems to make all powerful gods impossible.
When you say you believe in a god. Are you just not accepting the theology presented by the group. Its foundational consistency and credibility doesn't seem to have much bearing on your choice.
This is what i like about Jesus very much, it seems he could take care for all personal needs using only 1 donkey power, that's only a three quarters of 1 horse power. I mean it, what more anybody in the world actually need for daily activities, 1 donkey power can do all the domestic work for one person and carry him everywhere on a planet, this divine rationality is one of the most underrated aspects of modern religion.
@@xspotbox4400 Very interesting. I never thought of that.
Thank you for uploading this, Closer to Truth. Iʼve been a big fan of Dr. Plantinga and his body of work for several years, and a lot of his philosophical theology has helped me greatly regarding the notion of God and the presence of evil, ontological arguments for Godʼs existence, and a lot more.
Your resources have been really useful with the way we engage both theism and diverse fields of inquiry. I hope youʼll continue on posting your interviews with other intellectuals from various disciplines.
God bless!
I hv been following this channel for quite sometime now.. I wish along with our respected Christian theologians you even added some discussions from the Muslim scholarship.. It can even increase your viewership ten fold...
Why bother. This was such drivel. Why add more drivel to it.
@@visforvegan8 We must have different ideas from different socio cultural backgrounds . I watch all there videos . They consult scholars from Christianity (the most) , Atheism , Judaism , Hinduism . Haven't seen a scholar of islam as of yet . Try Hamza Yusuf , you wont regret it .
Instead of calling things nonsense , things that are close to the hearts of billions of people , be more tolerant and patient with your fellow humans.
So... an argument from popularity/tradition?
Got it.
"We" are all prisoners born of "God's" conception, therefore "God" has yet to be born.
Try and think of what happens in the split-second an egg becomes fertilized., now imagine on a god-scale from within higher intra-dimensional levels that "we", along with nature/physical reality, are the byproduct of that process unfolding.
So there's no reason whatsoever to fear or worship., THAT which "we" all are already a part of.
The Shiva Linga is the precursor of the Holy Trinity in describing what is taking place across intra-dimensional levels of existence of a singular being's metamorphosis into..., a God?
Just as the physical universes experience multiple crunches and expansions like a heartbeat., this being "we" are all part of, will eventually reach a stage in its progress where it will withdraw into itself all of the knowledge or data acquired through experiences from those separate individual consciousnesses whose Souls were able to make it through and beyond the life stages of Mineral, Vegetable and Animal.
That's all "we" are., packets of information whose ego-identity becomes sacrificed upon subsumption into the One.
For those seeking..,
Do any of you know what you're really asking for in seeking ultimate liberation?
If you enjoy inhabiting a human or any other form capable of expressing your individual character and Will., you're not ready for mergence.
With that said., Who are my parents?
What i could see when observing different cultures and religions is, general happiness depends on many things, like ethics, economy, government, education, culture, traditions, geopolitical situation,... all kinds of things. Religion is most often mixed with ideology, most people doesn't spend their time in church and don't think of their God or divinities very often. But when certain forms of politics dominate over nation or even became a part of larger scheme of world affairs, religion quickly turn into some form of authoritarianism, policing people at fundamental level and enforcing moral guide lines where laws doesn't suit higher goals or system goes trough controlled transformation. Religion is easy, efficient, cheap and quick way to consolidate masses around common issues, synergy provide strong feedback they must be doing something right in eyes of divine forces behind disturbing events or all suffer similar faith at least. But when certain goals are reached and things return back to normal, individualism became more important driving force, causing problems among church members that can't be resolved in collective manner. This is when people start to think about God and consciousness more seriously, trying to establish personal relation with what they experienced, how they feel about things, what they can sense and know, like divine forces doesn't really care how life will continue after higher social order was established again. Again strong sense of higher influence became present, like divine intervention is reflected in some social mass psychology, dedicated to basic necessities and normal functionality of urban environment. When things are normal, everybody is walking around with light lantern in their hands asking others, where is God, if they can show them somehow. But when populism control minds of citizens, God became self evident, present and active, watching on each and every one of them, so they can't fall under public enemy spells. It seems God never sleeps, he's a creative force working with entire human species, trying to create better tomorrow and unite all man kind under future heavens. It's probably because everything will be brand new and God doesn't want simple minded and ignorant individuals popping chewing gum under precious chairs and tables.
The universe is a big place. If we doubt this, consider Hubble Deep Field. If anyone still believes that we on Planet Earth are alone, they can stop reading now. As for the rest of us:
1) It does not pay to anthropomorphize/personalize God. There are religions out there with vastly different interpretations to those that we are familiar with here on Earth;
2) There is NO Fermi paradox & there is no such thing as instinct - all living entities make choices from their ecosystems & cultures (biosemiotic theory, Jakob von Uexkull);
3) Platinga talks about trusting God, implying questions of good & evil. No need for God. Questions of good/evil are settled with reference to good culture versus evil culture (heaven/hell);
4) Actually, imho, I think Hinduism does a better job of averting the anthropocentrism/humans-are-speshul ball-and-chain that holds up the other religions;
5) It might pay Dr Kuhn to interview some Hindus and Buddhists. Their references to God are from a very different perspective.
So long as we appreciate that this living universe is infinitely immense, conjecturing about God and His form can only lead to frustration. A verse from Hamlet to remind us:
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Another sadist atheist.
We don't know if life exists in the universe other than earth there's no proof to date only speculation
The almighty God is normally supposed to BOTH A) being able to make decisions and B) to know the future.
Here you should make a distinction between "optional futures" - God could maybe interact and modify them - and "THE ONE FUTURE", because ONLY ONE DETERMINED future will eventually come true. (The one that will become our ONLY ONE PAST). Well, God is supposed to be able to get the best performance: to know that ONE future. But then God MUST JUST LET IT UNFOLD EXACTLY like it is, He is NOT ALLOWED to change anything in it, because God makes no errors in his knowledge of the future! God cannot decide ANYTHING more: ALL God's decisions are already included in that future.
What above means that EITHER God is free to decide, but this implies He does NOT know the ONE future, OR He knows the ONE future, but this prevents Him from making ANY further decision. Even worse than that, GOD WOULD BE OBLIGED to HIMSELF slavishly follow that one determined future. This all means the two abilities A) and B) are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE ("either", "or", but never "BOTH" at the same time). Since obviously God was able to make his decisions and we are also confident that He knows the future, the path followed must be from A) to B). When that transition occurred ? Certainly not during the man's history, of course that must have happened BEFORE the birth of the universe.
However, God only arrived at step B) BUT WITHOUT ENTERING that step, we saw earlier that God is absolutely NOT INTERESTED IN TAKING PART to that future: He would be obliged to "SLAVISHLY" follow it. The God's actions in that one future (for example words) will AUTOMATICALLY come true instead. In other words that one future will come true WITHOUT GOD. Thus NOBODY will be there to take the God's actions. The God's words will thus be spoken by the SPIRIT OF GOD since God is not there to speak. Everything was done, God was thus FREE from any other duty. But where has the almighty God gone after that ? Of course He is now the Son of God. The almighty God dropped his then USELESS power to become like a normal man: Jesus. Thus, the almighty God is only IN THE PAST, "no one ever saw God" ""The world has not known you". Jesus is the only one really existing God. He is not omnipotent.
Of the religions that teach god is perfect, all knowing, wise and loving and that we are created in his image, think of him in this light: if he is perfect, he cannot create something in his image that is imperfect-humanity. To do so would make god an oxy-moron. It seems like god is trying to resolve his own neurosis. God gives us free will of only two choices-heaven or hell. Not much of a choice. God violates his own commandments to us. We’re told not to kill but he kills at will. We’re commanded not to feel jealousy and he even says he’s a jealous god. Many human attributes reflect attributes of god which we seldom focus on-jealousy, hate, anger, vengeance, laughter at our calamities. Aren’t humans really mirroring god’s own behavior? He could easily be compared to any bully on earth. In fact, he sounds quite bi-polar. God is said to not be a respecter of persons yet he picks and chooses who to bless or curse, heal or maim, allow to live or die at will. He wants to be worshiped, feels deserving of our loyalty and worship yet he puts many in dire straits such as Job in order to prove their obedience. He killed Job’s family to prove a point-did he ever think of the lives he was destroying? Does he think giving Job a new family and life adequate recompense for what he willfully destroyed? And don’t say he didn’t kill them, that he allowed them to be killed, because that would be a direct reflection of current events where police officers stood by and allowed another officer to put his knee on the neck of a man he’d already subdued and who died. If you think what they did was wrong, it seems they only mirrored god’s own behavior. God doesn’t want humans to think for themselves. He inspired countless texts with laws and commandments used to control humans, subdue their will. Put god’s own behavior side by side with the parenting of people who abuse their children, even kill them. Do you see any difference? Go back and read my first sentence, then think about it.
God gave Job a new family and promised to resurrect the deceased ones in paradise. I don't think God made imperfect humans they just chose to be that way, although some theologians say we are just learning how to behave correctly before we are allowed into a good society like heaven or what not. As to God being hypocritical I doubt we even come close to acting correctly on negative feelings.
@@dginx There is no rationale that would explain why a perfect god would want to create life forms with the ability to choose good and evil. To do so would be condemning undeserving multitudes to suffer. Why would a perfect god want that? Where is the logic much less love and compassion in god allowing a man to be tormented, his family taken from him only to be rewarded with a new family? why would a perfect, loving god need the worship of humanity who is so imperfect? If god can know the past, present and future where is the perfection is creating humanity he knows is destined to fall? If we're a reflection of who god is, being made in gods image, then what does that say about god? We can quote religious indoctrinations or we can try and understand what religion won't or can't explain.
@@rubiks6 hey dude. You seem to be on every comment thread with your religious babble. Are you a Jesus troll.
@@rubiks6 The focus of my comment isn't on christian salvation. It's on the nature of god and the humans he created. A perfect god isn't going to need the worship of mortals less than perfect. And how can humans be less than perfect if we're created in god's image? Maybe god isn't so perfect after all? Yet, having the foresight to know humans would fail and sin he creates humanity knowing we will sin and therefore need a savior, whom he has predestined to suffer and die for our sins. What kind of father would do that? He loved the world so much he gave his only begotten son? The problem is, god never had to create humans with the capacity to sin. There wouldn't have been a need for a blood sacrifice for redemption back to a god who never had to take us to this place--yet he did.
@@rubiks6 And you continue to miss the point. A very simple point. All else aside, if we're created in god's image and he is perfect, how can we be imperfect? Stop telling me WHAT god can do, and focus on the WHY. Does god need to be needed so badly--the god who can create all that has ever existed--that he would create imperfect humans so we would fail just so he could sacrifice his son to save us?
But, you speak from the indoctrination of your religion and cannot have an objective thought of your own. Religion doesn't allow you to question god.
Am auzit si de energiile necreate...
And if you ask them: ‘Who has created them?’ they will certainly say: ‘Allah.’ Then where are they wandering disorientated?
(الزُّخْرُف - Al-Zukhruf [43 : 87])
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I love CTT. I think the more you define what it means to be God, the less likely it is that God could be real.
Seems to me that the opposite is true. In either case, It would in no way negate his ontological status.
And if monster is real, we will know how to kill it.
And (also) of His signs is that He created for you mates of your own kind so that you acquire peace from them, and He created between you love and mercy. Verily, in this (system of creation) there are signs for those who meditate.
(الرُّوْم - Ar-Rūm [30 : 21])
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Tatal, Fiul si Sfantul Duh
Dumnezeu este treime in ortodoxie.
And of His signs is that He created you from dust, and now you are human beings spread around (all over the globe).
(الرُّوْم - Ar-Rūm [30 : 20])
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Excellent.... thanks 🙏.
What exactly was excellent? He got everything wrong. Even his description of a god, was complete nonsense. The god he describes is not found in want holy text I'm aware of. Yet he keeps returning to the Abrahamic god who is the god thing that is furthest from his description of a god. This is an example of how to waste your entire life.
Not sure what excellence is found here.
Why are modern day believers so quick to reject/dismiss the old Gods like Zeus, Apollo etc., and treat them as fairytales, yet somehow they can't accept that their own modern Gods are just version 2.0 of those older Gods? To me it seems like all of the qualities that believers want to attribute to their God are directly contradicted in the books/bibles that they believe in it. I wonder why (if the message is supposed to be clear and divine) everyone has their own version/interpretation of the text? I also wonder what percentage of believers have actually read beyond the hand picked passages that they hear from the pulpit?
Acts 17:22-31 (WEB): 22 Paul stood in the middle of the Areopagus, and said, “You men of Athens, I perceive that you are very religious in all things. 23 For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ What therefore you worship in ignorance, this I announce to you. 24 The God who made the world and all things in it, he, being Lord of heaven and earth, doesn’t dwell in temples made with hands, 25 neither is he served by men’s hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself gives to all life and breath, and all things. 26 He made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the surface of the earth, having determined appointed seasons, and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 that they should seek the Lord, if perhaps they might reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live, and move, and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his offspring.’ 29 Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold, or silver, or stone, engraved by art and design of man. 30 The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because he has appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom he has ordained; of which he has given assurance to all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.”
In answer to the first question: because the claims about the kind of being GOD is (metaphysically, ontologically, and so on) made by Christian theists are worlds apart from the claims made about the kinds of beings the gods of the polytheistic pantheons are (contingent, finite, passible, mutable)... see David Bentley Hart's "The Experience of God" for a good primer on these differences. Also, all of my closest friends who are Christians have read the Bible multiple times.
This one seems to be proving Hawkings valuation of current philosophy. Well at least he gets paid for this.
Do not use this as a representation of contemporary philosophy or even all contemporary philosophy of religion.
As a species we have evolved to worship. Like other primates we have evolved to worship the leader of the pack. It's only a small jump to invent an even higher alpha male who seems more powerful. One, for example, who has the power to cause thunder and lightening, volcanic eruptions and other such magical phenomena.
@D L Luke Hey D L... I agree with you to a point. What do you mean by "tribal DNA" and do you think it still exists in people today? You said "it seems as those who don't believe in evolution, don't evolve." What do you mean by "evolve?" I have read there are about 7 or 8 different "theories" of evolution. Did you know that? I'm trying to correlate the existence of God with the ideas of evolution. Do you think it's possible for the two ideas to be compatible? I know you don't believe in God ( right?) but I'm just curious how you might see that correlation? John
@D L Luke Ooops. I think I asked you a dumb question. Well... maybe not dumb but irrelevant to you. Anyhow... Peace to you too and hope I did not upset you with the question.
@Michael P
There is no worship among "other primates". Have you never seen how "other primates" deal with leaders of the pack if they get the chance? Although if the biblical god monster really existed I would love to follow the example of "other primates" and tear out his throat with my bare teeth too.
Birds demonstrate religious behavior. They put birds in a box that randomly dispensed food. When did didn't come the right away, the birds tried recreating what it was they were doing when the food came the first time. We're they flapping their wings? Ok let's try that. Flapping brought the food, so flapping must please the god thing. Still no food? I must not be flapping in a way that phrases the god thing, let me try flapping more......
@@johnbrzykcy3076 I can't speak for the OP, but I'll sort of answer your questions.
Yes, u think tribalism is built into our DNA. We only have the ability to have relationships with a limited number of people. It behooved us in the past (well still does) to be able to identify who we could trust, and who was strange. Now our intuition isn't always sound, but it's there. We are tribal on any number of things, religion, race, sports teams, geography.... I didn't care for the hometown I grew up in, but meet someone from home while you're traveling a thousand miles away, and you have an instant kinship. See someone staying your team colors, instant bond, even if they might be a jackass (don't worry, you don't have to stay friends, I'm just saying your initial response). It takes a lot of hard work to make yourself aware of your tribal biases and overcome them.
There is nothing in evolution that says a god thing couldn't exist, it just makes the window smaller, and the need for a god thing that much less. He was not using the term evolution, though in terms of life on Earth, he was just using it in the colloquial sense to mean change. Specifically change that can be traced. It is very easy to trace the concept of a god belief from spirits, to a pantheon to an omniscient being. With each passing change god gets more powerful, but makes less sense. But it is the natural expected evolution of a god thing, because if god isn't tri-omni, then it isn't the ultimate creator of all things, and isn't deserving of worship. If course the concept of a tri-omni god is soft refuting.
As far as 7 theories of evolution? That's nonsense. The term evolution is used in speech to refer to many things, but scientifically the theory off evolution is one and only one theory. We are always learning more and this modifying and improving upon our understanding of evolution, but it's still only one theory that is much more well understood than most other scientific theories that we don't question. No one questions the theory of gravitation, yet we understand very little of it. We can have equations that describe it, but we don't understand the mechanisms of it.
Mesia va veni a doua oara pe Pamant.
"The concept of God is deeply embedded in the human psyche. The vast majority of the world's population now and over history believes that there is such a person as God, something very much like God, something very much like, lets say the conception of God in the Abrahamic religions."
The majority of the world's population over history were polytheists, and many still are today. Polytheism is a worldview with fundamentally different ontological premises than modern monotheism which assumes a supernatural, disembodied, in every way perfect intelligence that is above and behind all things. In polytheism, deities are generally not disembodied and omnipresent, nor are they perfect beings. They tend to be part of a mythological world that simply preexists with little further ontological explanation. To claim that this is the same "deeply embedded concept of God" is a stretch.
X-Files
We are made in the image of good (god). Not dogs, wolves and pigs.
Good (god) is the exact opposite of vampires (greed) and their ignorance (hate).
Question. Why are the evangelical counting corpses using the bible as a springboard to perform somersaults to do the exact opposite of "love their neighbors" and "treat others like they want to be treated"?
Answer. This is sick. Because these simple concepts are too far out there to grasp for vampires (greed).
Vampires (greed) who suck the joy out of life have joined the zombies who eat the futures of their children.
Zombie Apocalypse is here and happening now.
And I created the jinn and human beings solely to adopt My servitude.
(الذَّارِيَات - Al-Dhāriyāt [51 : 56])
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Worship is an act of adoration of one who is superior in some sense to the worshiper. Now, philosophically speaking, if we are, in essence, conscious personalities, then God is the *supremely* conscious personality. If we are, by nature, intelligent and good, then God is way more intelligent and the very epitome of goodness. And so on. Thus, although both God and us are conscious personalities, ontologically the same in nature, yet, when it comes to the degree of consciousness, intelligence, etc., God is in every sense, a *better* personality. And as worship is an act of adoration of a better personality, this provides the philosophical rationale for the worship of God.
Hey Arunava.... If I am to worship God, it's not because He has a "better personality" but because He loves me and loves His creation.
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Professor Kuhn, please go interview more Muslims that are well versed in theology or Kalam, they have all the answers you need in respect to God, much more than the Jews or Christian, Infact the Jews or Christians borrowed all of their concepts from Muslims but please go interview people straight from the source of these arguments, both the concept of God and the concept of worship is logically and thoroughly explained in Islam, without a doubt. Please do an entire video about your investigation on the islamic concept of God, you will not regret it because by far they have the strongest position. Their are many proofs in Islam, we have the proof of the truthful discovered by ibn sina, and the Islamic ontological argument created by mulla sadra, infinite argument developed by alghazali, we also have other giants like ibn Arabia and ibn tammiya, etc etc, focus on each and every one of them and their arguments, one by one, video by video, not all together.
Because I've realised you have an urge to find the truth about this, and those people are the key that unlocks that truth for you with certainty. The arguments are tremendously deep, so to really get down to the bottom of them, you need to go one by one, segment by segment.
Can your God fill teeth or do other supernatural dental happenings?
@@TheWorldTeacher There are two approaches to an individual like yourself, either you are extremely bias and won't challenge your arguments or investigate from an objective point of view, or you may challenge your arguments and accept that you may be mistaken in your views about the concept of God. If you are the latter, then go and study the book the metaphysics of the healing by avvicena, and all your answers are in that book to get completely blown away and debunked from what you said, if you are truthful to yourself that is.
@@TheWorldTeacher That is just the summary of the proof, not the proof itself, go read the book to get the actual thought experiments and logical proof avvicena laid down to prove God's existence with certainty, that's why its called the proof of the truthful, if your truthful to yourself you'll know with certainty.
@@TheWorldTeacher You don't sound like a swami or a mystic teacher or whatever else. What do you mean by evidence? By evidence do you mean scientific or philosophical, empirical or rational or a bit of both, what do you mean? You can't say there is no evidence if you deny to even read the book I am proposing to you that contains that evidence, you haven't even read it for your own experimentation to be able to judge whether there is evidence or not, you just say there is no evidence, I am offering you evidence, read it and find out and ultimately judge for yourself objectively without any bias, and then we can discuss, or don't, but that would be your loss.
The fuck? Right if the bat not even a minute in and this is full of assumptions...
Who created God?
@Peter Rabbit Humans created all kinds of gods. We are still creating gods. As I contemplate the question "what gods have I created," the Cosmos replies, " But WHO created you?"
@Peter Rabbit Thanks for sharing. I do believe though there could be a philosophical reality. Time will tell. We keep on learning. So far only scraps have fallen "off the table." Hey, I think someone a long time ago talked about table scraps to Jesus. Hmmm... interesting.
@@johnbrzykcy3076 "happy coincidences"
Humans.
We know the future of God... "thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." World without end.
@@TheWorldTeacher I once was lost but now I'm found was blind but now I see.
@@TheWorldTeacher it's Soldier not slave.
God being nature makes the most sense to me.
And that gets us no where. So this nature god cares whether you eat pork or not? Whether you have dirty thoughts about your neighbor? What kind of clothes you wear, what days you can gather sticks, how you should sacrifice your goats, children or virgins? Until you start explaining why we should care about whether a there is a god thing that we should obey and worship, the god concept has no meaning. (I'm not suggesting you think this nature god gives commands, in just saying unless it is giving commands it no different than not existing).
@@visforvegan8 you don't have to worship it but like or not your connected to it.we should be trying to form that connection instead of trying to separate ourselves from it,because not only do we feel miserable/lost but also by polluting her,it fights back and makes it inhabitable for us.
Gods are nothing more than personifications of a specific cultures view on nature.Aka we dont need god to tell us what to do and how to live our lives because we created the gods.
To whatever degree nature frees any life form from instinct & reflex & concomitantly replaces those traits with learning, trial & error & intelligence, to just that degree must it - nature - make that life form’s offspring woefully ignorant, inept & helpless at birth while also making that young’s mother equally all-knowing - must make her omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, all provident & all loving by way of compensation.
Our own sense of ‘god’ quite literally derives from the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, all provident & all loving position our human mothers hold in relation to their completely helpless, stupid & ignorant new borns.
The so called ‘god hole’ is quite literally the ‘mother hole’ with which each of us is born, & which so tragically under patriarchy cannot be filled as, as Frederick Engels said in ‘The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State’, “The rise of patriarchy was the world historic defeat of woman” & a defeated woman is entirely incapable of being a good mother.
The weapon of defeat ? Marriage. Patriarchal marriage. Under patriarchy a wife is quite literally an unidentured domestic drudge, a sexual slave most craven & a bound & shackled brood mare, & this holds even if she has a ‘nice’ husband, as the niceness of the husband merely camouflages the heinous servitude & degradation of his wife....
Unless we dismantle patriarchy and re-elevate womyn back onto the pedestal of worshipful male reverence WHERE WE BELONG we’re doomed. Unless all men and boys DEFER to their moms in ALL MATTERS, we’re doomed.
Womyn, of course, also have to relearn how to be the good mothers nature intended us to be.
Boy ! it must be very hard being a bloke ..... having to realise that everything you are derives from your relationship with your little old mom. Your best, & indeed only, salvation lies not in making up fairies at the bottom of the garden, or bearded men in the sky, but assisting womyn in becoming good moms again .....
Just saying .....
That's some good thinking, it's actually very strange governments and religions prophet individuality and equality, but separate humans into two sexes, various groups and types. It's like everybody are the same, just slightly different in a practical manner, depends on their roots, origins, social status or class, but most of all on individual physical body properties, like if we are healthy or sick, young or old, man or a woman. We should write beauty in constitution or take a pill against charms of gorgeous woman, if we are totally honest since those aesthetic influences decide many people's faith and we still pretend it doesn't exist or just doesn't matter so much.
I would say two problems should be resolved first, what do we do with woman ability to replicate human kind, should we leave everything in hands of a mother and adjust society to help them accordingly when they're breeding new people, without any further obligations and duties beyond act of birth and other problem, is it worth living if woman are not allowed to be cute, silly and charming? But if we want beautiful woman and also woman want to look beautifull, why not create laws all woman must look best they can be and take care for babies if they get pregnant, but should be treated as man in all other matters concerning every day life. Because this is what we do anyway, laws or not, we just can't help it, no animal can. Let's try it other way around, woman should dress, act and talk same as man, everybody should live alone, in flat of his own, pregnancy should be treated as medical condition, babies should be taken care of by a community or a state apparatus imidietly after they get born and sexual activities should be considered as recreational exercise. Sounds awful and it would probably be much worse than that, but let's think for a moment, isn't that how things really are since we became intelligent species and we can rationalize about basic instincts? I'm not saying those are the only options, but those extremes remind me on how far we are as species from totally different state than animals and why are we even allowed to have personal dreams, intelligence is a dream inside a dream, knowing reality doesn't help you to transcend it without evolutionary changes or near magic bionic technologies.
@@xspotbox4400 Thank you, Xspot for your own thoughtful reply ..... Yes, there other options .... nature has many other parenting & social options .... which I've studied in detail ...... big topic !!!!
@@rubiks6 I soppose you have met god and can tell us what he looks like. Please inform us so we can know the true face of god. Oh wise one
@@rubiks6 why not a beard. That is the way god is portrayed as an old man in the sky. Duh.
@@rubiks6 Every picture of Jesus and god has a beard. Michelangelo portrays god with beard. Is Michelangelo mocking god ? So maybe your image of god is more ambiguous.
God is more for the astral world than the physical world.... that is why he can’t be seen here...his work is for over there not here
The answer is found in the Holy Qur'an 7, 172
Arabic: {وإذ أخذ ربك من بني آدم من ظهورهم ذريتهم وأشهدهم على أنفسهم ألست بربكم قالوا بلى}
English: And remember (before the creation) When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): "Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?"- They said: "Yea! We do testify!" (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful"
Makes sense since it can only be our god, Allah, who implanted the deity concept deep in the human' psyche.
@@rubiks6 The god of Mohammad, peace be upon him, is indeed The One and only Almighty Creator of everything and the religion of Mohammad, piece be upon him, is the religion which attracts Christians in their millions to become Muslims after comparing Islam with its preserved authentic Holy Qur'an to the Christianity with its non-sense non-authentic fabricated and altered scripture. Glory be to Almighty Allah who blessed us with his guidance sent down in his word, The Holy Qur'an.
Now burn in your hatred here in this life until you are dragged into Hellfire to burn therein for infinity.
Great, let's start a third world war to figure out which God is better...
@@ferdinandkraft857 There's no such thing as a "better god", there's only one, so the correct phrase should have been: "Which is the correct god". I add it takes an idiot to belittle the importance of worshipping The Almighty Creator, since it is the only reason we were created for.
@@rubiks6 Exactly ✔
@@ferdinandkraft857 We don't need or want any more religious wars. We should desire to follow the path of the one who wore sandals until He reached the place of the skull above Adam's grave.
I can imagine what it is to be god. It's like what I was before conception. Non existent.
Alvin Carl Plantinga is DELUSIONAL
@@TheWorldTeacher Yawn
@@TheWorldTeacher There are none so ridiculous as those who claim to know things they have no way of knowing. You need to learn to say "I don't know" when you don't know and not make up a load of nauseatingly boring bs. However the universe is, you aren't going to clarify anything by spouting UNEVIDENCED nonsense.
@@roqsteady5290 Ignore that troll, The World Fool. They repeat the same phrases, insults, and blabbering BS on every one of these videos. They have vomit of the mouth and keyboard. Shameless slave to their gods, Blabbering BS and Copy and Paste.
@@GeorgieKiely
Then run away - the original comment is no longer here.
God is oneness. Our ego makes us feel that we have an independent existence. Once the ego is dead, we are in God state, Nirvana.
It's called death here on west.
@@xspotbox4400 exactly, it's permanent death of ego
Usually death is associated with body death but, ego comes back in a different from
@@cvsree I'm afraid i'll lose more than just a certain organ i'm very attached to when i die.
It's interesting that the Bible speaks of putting to death the flesh. I believe the flesh it speaks of is this ego thing. And you put the flesh to death by seeking God and living in his presence daily.
@@jrboi22 It's called butchery here on west.
I abhor the word "worship".
No one deserves to be worshipped.
curiosity 2019 . You succumb to the ubiquitous fallacy of conceptualizing God as one fussy object among many. To you, God is merely an especially fancy, talented person. God, if He should exist, is, of necessity, not a person at all, but, rather, the very act of being itself. I definitely agree that no person deserves worship, no matter how good or smart or potent. The intelligence upon which the universe, space, time, life, meaning, mathematics, the cosmological constants, and consciousness depend would certainly be the one thing that is worthy of worship.
@@blindlemon9 Admired but still not worshipped.
The god of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Jesus, and Mohammad is not worthy of worship because he’s not a god of love, per plantinga. This god is far from loving. Find another.
I understand what you are saying. I think Jesus the Christ was an example of the highest love.
@@johnbrzykcy3076 No, he wasn't.
A truly loving parent would never teach their children that they're innately sinful, unworthy, that they have to feel guilty for every minor transgression.
Love means letting your loved one live their life, not making them devote themselves to you.
Teaching slaves to obey their masters is the opposite of love, it amounts to actively cementing the oppressive institutions. I think we can all blame Christianity for enabling centuries of suffering by discouraging rebellion and criminalizing free thought.
@@rubiks6 god had the power to create perfect man. But he didn't. God would never have needed to humble himself, assume a sinful human body and die for the sinful man he created. Why torture man? He could have created us perfect in his image to start with and avoided all the suffering and started where we're supposed to end up after all is said and done. Do you believe that every time the word "god" or "lord" is mentioned in the bible that it's referring to THE GOD-the Source God? Maybe it's talking about the god of this earth? That would clear up a lot of confusion...
@@AlexanderShamov Hey.. I respect your perspectives but I disagree. I don't believe Jesus taught that people "have to feel guilty for every minor transgression" nor did he make them "devote themselves" to Him. He healed the sick, visited the social outcasts of society, welcomed children into his arms, etc. Where do you get the idea that Jesus was "criminalizing free thought?"
@@rubiks6 I agree with your statements, although I really don't know what Mohammad believed.
Say : He is God , the one God , to whome the creatures turn
for their needs . He begets not , nor was He begotten , and there is none
like Him
lol. Mythological mumbo jumbo. You're better than that.
I think myths are much more than what meets the eye. They are interested symbolic stories of the nature of man and the universe. They were never created as scientific accounts but rather symbolic accounts of the nature of man. Even if you're non religious you can at least appreciate the beauty of religious literature. "Test everything, retain what is good." We should at least try to be intellectually polite and see the good in things instead of mocking them, thank you for hearing me out.
Stefano Portoghesi Thank you so much 😊
Adrian Akabogu Thank you so much 😊
@Stefano Portoghesi Not exactly though, I think that religious myths were more than entertainment stories. They said deep things about order and chaos, about the human heart and about many things. Thank you for replying to my message too. I always enjoyed stories and I see many truths in them about courage, love, kindness and a sense of self understanding, that's why they've always intrigued me, they're stories about human self understanding from the beginning of the human race and I think they teach much more than looney toons and tom and Jerry, but I don't mind comparing them to stories like Lord of the Rings because they have the same perennial truths. Thank you for reading.
✝️👑🙏⭐ #grateful #blessed
@@TheWorldTeacher THANK YOU #grateful #blessed #wisdom
God can't have emotions in the same way humans do, that would be weird when you think about it.
Then why does every god thing described in every holy book and every oral tradition have human emotions. Kinda makes you think they're all fake, right?
@@visforvegan8
Man made gods in his image (with certain alterations in some cases) rather than the other way round. If one considers various images of deities:
Horus - body of a man with the head of a falcon.
Anubis - ditto with the head of a jackal.
Ganesh - ditto with head of an elephant.
Poseidon - torso and head of a man with the rest the after end of a fish.
Many other deities are depicted totally in male or female human form.
@@visforvegan8
Yes, God can't know fear, why would God be affraid and for what?
Anger would be a strange emotion for a god because he's in controle and knows what's going to happen all the time...god has absolutely no clue what people go through in life.
The term god has too many meanings to too many people. It’s just a term to describe the all knowing creator. It’s simply consciousness
I am not embarrassed to tell people that Jesus saves. Consider the mark of the beast system spoken by the prophet John in the book of Revelations. Where we were told that we could neither buy nor sell without the mark. Where we have been forewarned that by taking the mark that we will surely die. Doesn't it look like this system is soon to come?
@@Graewulfe Revelation 13:16-17 We think it's related to a cashless system. (Digital)
@@TheWorldTeacher let the things seen teach us of the things not seen. Intelligent design. All in all.
@@Graewulfe What do you mean by digital? All electronics decay, energy must be constantly generated, transformed and safely distributed, entire system loose a lot of energy over heat and useless operational modes. Every single bit of electronics you own will be replaced in 10 or 20 years at most, new models are even tinnier, more fragile and demand way more operations to perform new functions. Worst problem is security, whatever protection you think you might have, all companies must include keys to decrypt their system and provide those tools to governments. Electricity always flow in both ways, entire circuit is just a collection of potentials, connected on both sides of energy source. This means energy doesn't travel as a ball inside hollow wires but is more like a water, only waves travel, but same water fills entire system. There are billions of computers in the world, every year there's more of them, every two years they double their computing speed, each time you open new free space on internet additional disk drives are installed somewhere, so more data will be be stored and maintained into infinity.
What happens if technology hit a wall or economy collapse, sun burst destroy generators or a meteor strike destroy half of a planet, who will produce new chips, where and with what tools, this technology is produced only by a few corporations, only few academic societies know how to build them, entire field of electronics is incredibly fragile and unstable system. Actually it's a miracle those devices and systems work the way they does, nothing can help us understand growing sphere of informatics rather than pure science entire industry is completely dependent upon. Look at a single electronic element, what is that tinny black box, with some thick wires coming out of it's raisin shell, it's purified metals and chemical compounds, it's molecules and geometry basically, designed to channel arcane natural forces. Not a single holly scripture ever mentioned electronics, this means it's designed by human consciousness and imagination, like nothing divine is present in those devices except living creative imagination. And we know what our thoughts are, it's biological electronics, but on another level, unimaginable at present stage of human evolution.
You trust your personal computers now, but would you still use them if all would be connected to some central artificial intelligence, communicating with you as if it was a living person, while recording and reporting your every move to other people? What could we do than, prayers doesn't help against mathematical monster.
@@Graewulfe I agree but this sounds like next level total control combined with forced worship. Some believe that the mark will change our DNA.
@@xspotbox4400 the old crow whistle blowers say that most of our modern technology came from crashed UFO craft not of this world. At one time I was the skeptic but the archaeology is blowing the whistle too.
no god exists that's worthy of MY worship.
@@rubiks6 You are quite handy with your whip.
@@scruffypupper Jesus does not desire for us to carry a whip, although His word is like a "double-edged sword." In fact, how could a man, with His hands nailed to a cross, even hold a whip?
@@rubiks6 You are, after all, one of gods spokespersons/robots.
There is no big picture of God or a tiny picture, because, he does not exist, except inside the minds of gullible people. End of story.
Hey Albert.... but what about the beginning of the story?
Saying that the idea of god is a part of human psyche is an astonishing claim.
The entire concept of worship is deeply disgusting. A being that demands worship does not deserve worship. Wanting to be worshiped is one of the biggest character flaws I can think of. The christian god concept is one of the most repulsive there is. Christian theology is absurd and laughable on a cosmic scale.
As an ex-christian, having stepped back from my faith, I always look in disbelief at theological fantasists like Plantinga. Seeing and hearing an adult man babbling about his invisible fantasy god-daddy-friend, and knowing there are so many like him, makes me feel that I live on a planet with a species gone totally mad.
Hey A... I respect your worldview. But.... you said "christian theology is absurd and laughable on a cosmic scale." Do you ever wonder then if these sounds of laughter are penetrating the Cosmos and the stars and creating tears? Do you know people laughed at Jesus as He hung on the cross? No one was there at the "place of the skull" to defend Jesus, except one criminal. Jesus loved that person and showed him love. Was such a Jesus just a "fantasy god-daddy-friend?"
@Peter Rabbit I respect your worldview but I disagree. Peace to you
@@johnbrzykcy3076 You assume and claim too much for no good reason at all, which is the most common failure of theism.
We have no idea whether anything that is described in the fantastical gospels has ever happened. I personally do think there might have been some kind of guru/charlatan/cult leader called Jesus, but all fantastical claims on top of that very basic assumption deserve to be discarded. Otherwise all bets are off and the road spiraling down to the insane and fallacious religious fantasy realm is wide open.
@@Ploskkky Thanks for sharing. I guess I do assume too much. But we keep on learning and hopefully some day truth will appear... like a breath of fresh air.