Alvin Plantinga - Does Philosophy Inform Religion?
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
- What can philosophy bring to religion? Philosophy is a systematic way of thinking about ideas and concepts, often fundamental features of the world. The philosophy of religion uses philosophical methodologies to examine religion, from the existence and attributes of God to the problems of evil, diverse religions, and conflicting belief systems.
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Alvin Carl Plantinga is an American analytic philosopher, the John A. O'Brien Professor of Philosophy Emeritus at the University of Notre Dame and the inaugural holder of the Jellema Chair in Philosophy at Calvin College.
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Closer to Truth, hosted by Robert Lawrence Kuhn and directed by Peter Getzels, presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
Alvin seems to remind me of,"Abe Lincoln" solid very well spoken!! Honest
What a nice converation! :)
this just seems like the beginning of a conversation.
Perfectly expressed, loved the solipsist joke too.
Real good stuff!! Thanks
A person experiences physical reality, and the brain can explain physical experience; when a person experiences spiritual reality, the mind explains spiritual experience?
Is it possible that a new universe come into existence every planck time?
Former colleagues saw ME do the Buffy vampire face thingy, and now this is happening.
"Intuitive" or "natural" doesn't mean anything. It's a fallacy.
A fallacy to whom?
Simply applying Reason apon logic or facts for clarity or seeking to understand, materialists deem fallacy.
Am certain the term 'fallacy' is being thrown much to often today.
Now when something is unknown or not known, and when contemplated on only for further inquiry, people yell 'fallacy'.
@@S3RAVA3LM I am not yelling, I am simply saying. The idea that Earth is flat was intuitive for a very long period of time. Saying that god exists because it is intuitive is not saying much. "It is natural" is literally a fallacy. What found to be natural/unnatural doesn't mean it is good or bad. If our feeling that god exists is natural, it doesn't prove that god exists in a slightest.
@@v11a03 God derives from good, and is predicated not properly however.
God is designation to Light, so to deny God is denying Light. To deny Light is to deny vibration, frequency, sound -- to deny life even.
Which is fallacy.
@@S3RAVA3LM whatever floats your boat.
The answers human kind has been unknowingly looking for all along has nothing to do with philosophy or religion, but has to do with a mechanism in the mind that records painful experiences, and later, plays them back, with pictures and any pain contained in that incident when the environment appears similar enough to the environment when the original incident occurred. This is more disturbing to a human being than anything we can imagine. Why? Because painful moments subdues the conscious analytical mind's ability to accurately interpret data gathered by the senses of perception. Data, when accurately analyzed, helps us make the most optimum calculations, choices and decisions for optimum survival . When this sensory data cannot be analyzed accurately, it causes a person to become aberrated. Either we interpret that which the senses of perceptions perceive accurately, or we don't, and if we don't, we draw the wrong conclusions from data that would otherwise be the correct conclusion. This causes errors in judgement, decisions, calculations, and the consequences can be catastrophic, as our cave dwelling brothers and sister found out, and as everyone found out since. Almost all errors in judgement, irrational thinking, is due to sensory input, not analyzed correctly. This occurs in individuals about 98% of the time, and IS, 'unconsciousness.' The 'inability' to draw correct answers/conclusions gathered from the senses of perception will make a person 'aberrated,' which is a nice way of saying, veering off course, and a just as accurate way of saying, insane, and any and all mental conditions in between. This is the most hidden component in the human brain, and the most destructive. If the suppressed physical moments of pain and painful emotion were deleted from this stimulus-response bank, philosophy, and I dare say religion, would be a thing of the past, because it is only repressed painful incidents which accounts for aberrative thinking, as one's life is choke full of painful incidents, some more and worse than others, where sensory information could not be analyzed, leaving units of 'consciousness' buried in the past.
Is god personal or public domain?
Both, if god is the cosmological constants.
The words are public domain. But, which belief system you accept is very personal.
What is philosophy
Some assert that no one has mind, not even themselves
Alvin is my absolute favorite Christian thinker.
The Roman Catholic Church believes Philosophy to be very important, so much so that they require their clergy to have at least 32 credits in Philosophy before they are orgained. o matter what course in Philosophy you take, all of them discuss Plato's cave. I ended up wth 36 credits of Philosophy and was sick of always having to discuss the Cave yet again.
Monkof, still I would prefer to have religion books in the Fictional section.
🕊
Philosophy is dead. Religion is more dead. The two can inform each other all they want.
Philosophy always let's people down when selfishness and playing God is a virtue. The world's religions restrain such atheistic motivations.
To believe in god doesn’t mean that one is intellectually inferior, that judgement is saved for their reasoning. However, very few have the specialist education to argue their point.
Nor can the gentile, atheist, unbeliever display genuine credence for their belief.
Using scientific values is great, are they to be designated to nothing? Because that's fallacy. Because 'nothing' is uncreated nor can create.
So what is to a degree understand by scientific methedology, what are these values or qualities or laws designated to?
@@S3RAVA3LM LOL. Yeah, proving a negative (an absurdity) is demanded when you can't prove the affirmative.
BTFW, the Vedics, the origin of Hinduism states "Know this: we are uncreated".
Your words are definitely a sign of very much below average critical ability. At best. You're answered that question, why are they considered intellectually inferior generally. Certainly not all people that believe in "God" are that, but we don't even have a definition of God, and your definition of religion is insuffient and narrowly selective to begin with.
Einstein and "Spinoza's God" is sadly not the case very much of the time.
Your idea of God is ex nihilo, is it not? Else, who created God. Get real.
@@S3RAVA3LM Atheism is the absence of a belief, if you want to use this word 'fallacy'. No one failing to believe something on faith or pure supposition has anything that requires proof.
We're not born with the belief, it has to be taught, or really indocrinated. I don't believe there is a Santa Claus, either. I don't have to prove why..
I expect the universe 'knew how' to become the universe, but *why* it is is a mystery and we non-believers are good with that. God did it; out of what exactly? It rather appears the universe formed out of a previous one's death. Either God is ex nihilo or it isn't. If so, nothing is required for creation.
Who created God? The honest answer I think is "I don't know", not an assertion there is no necessity.
The laws of thermodynamics claims energy and matter cannot be created then where did all the energy and matter come from if it cannot be created? Observing the matter in the universe is a clear indicator the law of thermodynamics is wrong. Energy and matter can be created. So if energy and matter can be created what created all the energy and matter in the universe? Did you know the space between all galaxies is increasing? Did you know this expansion of space accelerates with distance? According to the laws of thermodynamics and physics it takes an infinite amount of energy to accelerate a single particle up to the speed of light. It takes a constant source of infinite energy added to the universe to cause space to expand faster than the speed of light. Again the laws of thermodynamics is wrong claiming energy and matter cannot be created. If energy can be added to the universe but not destroyed then wouldn't the universe be expanding from the creation or addition of energy and matter everywhere? Philosophers claimed that the largest most powerful thing you can ever imagine would be God. Religions claim God is the creator of heaven, Earth and the sun. What if both Philosophers and religions were right? Recently radio telescopes found a supermassive object creating matter and energy at an alarming rate. Soon it will be announced they discovered the creator of all the stuff, including space, us, the sun and other stars in our galaxy, it even created hundreds of satellite galaxies orbiting around the Milky Way galaxy. It doesn't emit visible light so it looks black. But it is creating energy, matter and space near it. This supermassive object is the creator of everything in our galaxy. It is located in the center and currently is called a supermassive black hole. But it is not like any other black hole. It is slowly creating everything in our galaxy. A true God creator and it is supermassive just like philosophers of old once claimed. God the creator is indeed real. Not the God you imagined but God in human terms.
@@Civilizashum who are you texting to?
You totally missed the ball and seem worked up.
Interesting conversation. It might be helpful to interview someone who studies the philosophy of region who doesn't believe in God in order to explore how she or he might frame the debate. If we believe in unicorns and have faith in their powers of healing does that mean they exist?
@mbapw Of course not, but people don’t believe in unicorns. I think his point was that since people in large numbers do believe in God, that itself constitutes evidence.
Unicorns do "exist" though. They just aren't "real."
Think about this...
If time travel back to the past was possible then you could go back in time one day or one hour and walk right up to yourself. But would that be you? Because you, the person who time traveled is you. So who's that you are looking at? Your consciousness can't be at two places at the same time, right? But yet if you were to stab that other you in the arm then the real you would now have a scar. And you would have the memory of seeing your future you that one time and he stabbed you. Does that mean you can in theory be at two or more places at one time and all possess the same consciousness?
A riddle within a riddle within a riddle.
Is there a god and is his plan affected by your time travel?
Nbou, the response would be time travel is not possible.
We're surrounded by and depend on higher powers. Of this there is no doubt. The western conflict between philosophy and religion goes back to when the christian religion has become a dark superstition.
Blue, I reject your opening premise. But if you can present credible evidence for a higher power, I will consider.
@@cps_Zen_Run Despite our repeated attempts to control the forces of nature, nature punctually shows us her higher power, in one form or the other.
@@bluelotus542 you are doing personification. Nature is always restricted to the natural laws. Because a rock rolls downhill doesn’t imply it has intent or free will. Lol.
@@cps_Zen_Run Reversing the order of addends the result doesn't change: we're surrounded by and depend on higher powers.
When was that? About 100 AD?
If one has credible evidence then faith and beliefs are not required. A rational position would be skeptical until the time credible evidence is presented.
You don't have any beliefs? You don't have faith in anything?
"Theology sits rouged at the window and courts philosophy's favor, offering to sell her charms to it."
-Soren Kierkegaard
50,000 covid deaths in Philippines/ divided by whole population of Philippines 110,000,000=.00045 so less than 1% total deaths of Filipinos people over whole Philippines population now.
Anselm's ontological argument:
1 - It is a conceptual truth (or, so to speak, true by definition) that God is a being than which none greater can be imagined (that is, the greatest possible being that can be imagined).
2 - God exists as an idea in the mind.
3 - A being that exists as an idea in the mind and in reality is, other things being equal, greater than a being that exists only as an idea in the mind.
4 - Thus, if God exists only as an idea in the mind, then we can imagine something that is greater than God (that is, a greatest possible being that does exist).
5 - But we cannot imagine something that is greater than God (for it is a contradiction to suppose that we can imagine a being greater than the greatest possible being that can be imagined.)
6 - Therefore, God exists.
Lol... I bet there isn't a theist here who understands the logic of this very shrewd and clever argument !!
Wtf are you on about? Using logic like whatever you have written to prove or disprove something is quite bullcrap. I am an atheist and I believe that life exists because of quantum phenomena where dead matter interacts together and then because of emergence, becomes alive. If you think about it at the quantum level everything is a probability just like life. Once we understand quantum mechanics we will know all the secrets of the universe, life and if God exists or not. And then there's emergence which also needs to be present for life.
@@SahilP2648 The question posed by this video is - Does philosophy inform religion? So I posted Anselm's philosophical proof of the existence of god. But ironically and amusingly most theists aren't intelligent enough to understand the logic, certainly not the simpletons who routinely post comments.
I'm an atheist and I actually admire and respect the thought required to come up with this unusual idea, it's really quite clever for a 12th century monk. If you understood it you would be impressed.
@@B.S... like I said before, there's no way to prove or disprove God based on the comment you wrote. Doesn't matter if it was written by an alien or a 12th century monk.
I undestand it, bu i think is unsound, in fact i don't like as much the ontological arguments, the one that i like is the one that present leibniz or Godel, but despite the fact that is a better argument, i think is still unsound, the Alvin Plantinga version is also good but still i don't think is a valid like the cosmological or Swinburne probabilistic or Bayesian argunent, but i still find the argument fasinating
@@pedrogonzalez9934 If premises (1,3) are true then ---> God cannot exist 'only' in the mind. I can't see any weakness in the logic! Then again i'm not an analytical philosopher.
I don't understand why is "the problem of evil" even a problem for a theistic belief
Not exist problem Evil in Science. Philosophy religious show up Evil is contrary Good. Good is GOD. Of course. Evil or Good inst problem, those only words. GOD or Evil is rethoric sentence means nothing.
@@maxwellsimoes238 So there is no good or evil then?
If there's no God, there's neither good nor bad!
But if there's God, then he is the source of understanding of good or bad.
@greengargoo So what's the problem even if God is good? 🤔
@greengargoo I was expecting this "argument".
This argument which only westerners ask 😁😁
And is so silly for us eastern Christians ☺️☺️
Let me explain:
1. God is good, but his goodness is realized in giving freedom of action.
He gives freedom that's his goodness.
Unfortunately we utilized it wrongly.
Freedom allowed men to fall and consequently evil to exist.
It is not God' s fault 😁
We chose evil and suffering. It was our act of freedom.
2. Have you ever thought that maybe all the suffering and "evil" doesn't exist in reality? In Chistianity God took the most amount of evil and suffering on his shoulder and that was the best event for humanity.
And finally 3. Evil is a temporary state of the world for Christians as after the second coming of our Lord:
‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes.(H) There will be no more death’[b](I) or mourning or crying or pain,(J) for the old order of things has passed away.”(K)
Revelation 21
@greengargoo You are listening and reading to materialistic scientists.
Have you ever heard term "free won't".
Atheist scientist will never tell you that.
Follow the link about real neuroscientist if your realy searching for the truth m.czcams.com/video/BqHrpBPdtSI/video.html
As for allowing to commit evil to people.
Would you consider forcing to Goodness to people an act of kindness from God?
There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the "particle" of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force is the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the MATRIX of all matter." - Max Planck, Father of Quantum Physics
"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness."
Awesome
Anyone who becomes seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that there is a spirit manifest in the laws of the universe, a spirit vastly superior to that of man." - most famous physicist and philosopher Albert Einstein
This channel attempts to answer the questions the Cathilic Faith answered 800 years ago. Instead of settling for being "closer to truth" why not seek Truth itself?
Philosophy is like reading a book on swimming technique
Religion is like swimming without any study of techniques
Spirituality is like an Olympian who does both and uses practical knowledge to improve
Belief in the existence of other persons or minds or belief that there were previous events leading to current events are all based on evidence… it wouldn’t even make sense to believe any of them without evidence..
🇺🇳6:20
Well, i didn't discover any god, i did discover my UPgrade.
The Bible tells us about God's relationship with Man/Woman, beginning to beginning(Revelation). However God's relationship with the animals and plants are seldom talked about, because of Man/Woman dominion.
philosophy is to build questions to better know who our creator is and why we should fear, respect, and love our creator.
I have an intuitive feeling that our creator if exists, is just a sick tyrant
@@v11a03 , agreed. A most vial and evil deity. The biblical god makes Satan look like the energizer bunny.
@@v11a03 no, your intuition doesn't explain how our god character is, but it's a picture of you if you have great power.
That is the explaination in the bible
@@cps_Zen_Run i am not Christian, so your sarcasm is irrelevant
philosophy is awareness zoomed out, religion is the awareness of the connection between massive forces, business (and sports) is the awareness of adding of objects with assigned value by linear segments, in order to send out a novel object. What is called philosophy is the combination of the two perceptions behind religion and business; but, instead of a dichotomy asserted by business over time of religion and itself, philosophy rightfully is complex and co-creational from a personal viewpoint. Religion as spirituality is the simple awe and comfort felt as a baby lying on their side and observing, and this too is co-creational from a personal view. When the group size increases past the sweet spot the awareness of connection is lost and the assigned value of objects becomes contrived, meaningless. The ideas remain the same.
Philosophy is looking at God level questions without finding human level solitions .
Descartes first look inside his Brains before looking at GOD. He show up GOD is expression Mind. GOD exist when he is thinking. Thedefore he exist.Arent him right?
Umbasa.
First understand who is God??? If exist define properly... otherwise be an Atheist
X-Files
"The perception of beauty is a moral test". Ralph Waldo Emerson. This is the real IQ test. This test also determines if one is human.
Sanction starve torture murder and bomb (wheeeeee)! Ignorance (hate) is bliss for vampires (greed). But not much fun for the humans who they are sucking the joy out of.
Light and truth (love) cause vampires (greed) great pain and suffering. That's why the words compassion understanding, "care for all" and "green new deal" cause the capitalist counting corpses that rule US such misery.
Like bats that fly around in the darkness of caves... vampires (greed) are blind and cannot see the ignorance of transforming heaven (peace) into hell (war). The capitalist counting corpses are also blind and cannot see the ignorance of destroying the planet.
The evangelical monsters are extremely "desperate" to control a darkship called the Whitehouse. Because working in the dark to suck the joy out of life and destroy the planet is the only way that the loveless, lifeless parasites can survive and thrive.
It's also how the hostile alien invaders keep their human capital (cattle) corralled.
Unlike earthling human beings and creators of joy... the capitalist counting corpses that rule US can't create harmony (real intelligence) because vampires (greed) are far worse than stupid. The loveless, lifeless parasites are ignorant (dead).
Vampires (greed) who suck the joy out of life have joined the zombies who eat the futures of their children
Zombie Apocalypse is here and happening now
_"The perception of beauty is a moral test."_ - [Henry David Thoreau]
_"The revelation of thought takes men out of servitude and into freedom."_ - [Ralph W. Emerson]
Philosophy religious hasnt exist, Religious is fundament in dogma. He show up philosophy failed figuret out reality. He show good sumary in Modern philosophy problems.
Religion and philosophy are what the ancient Greeks used to come as close to the truth as they believed they could...both fail to reach verifiable knowledge.
Physics, Geology, Biology, Genetics, Radiometric Dating, medical science, and DNA Sequencing are but a handful of scientific disciplines that unintentionally place serious doubt on most if not all religious claims.
Hostility ? When you are convinced that you know what this reality means. Laughter seems more appropriate. But, how you use it can create hostilely.
He wonders why people who believe in god are sometimes viewed as intellectually inferior, and then he suggests that maybe belief in god is reasonable to have even without any evidence or argument at all. I think you just answered your own question, dude.
This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton
"Something like God" is, by definition, not God. So belief in it does not help Dr. Platinga. Most of us accept that we cannot disprove the existence of "something like God", but we can disprove, or at least justify sufficient doubt about, the existence of the Biblical God.
who cares
if religion were philosophy, another matter entirely, religion is a control mechanism to keep people compliant (and to dissuade forming a critical apparatus) before it's anything else. A person of a philosophical bent may entertain some concepts in religion and get into what does it all mean but religion is not a discipine really. Some things, Buddhism is called a religion but it's a school of thought (and 'the Buddha' pointedly refused a God: *If you can credit God you can blame God* . But that God has a scapegoat, the Devil.
Why are you here?
What is 'who cares'?
Ask yourself that from every angle.
From local, sensible, logical, reasonable, emotional, intellectual, spiritual, ethereal way.
Here in the comments.
Here on CTT.
Here on youtube.
Here in consciousness.
Here in the country.
Here in the planet.
Here within the cosmos.
Here in this present moment.
Who cares? You care, if not you wouldnt be here. You care enough to comment. You care enough to think about it; even enough to expound a little.
Religion is a hospital for people who are lost. Perhaps spiritually inept or enthralled by ignorance. Perhaps without purpose or meaning, and are in hopes of something, or are afraid.
Because of the vulnerable state of people, religion can be used as a weapon and is. I agree with you.
Genuinely asking, what do you want, or to see?
The truest Wisdom is of an understanding heart.
A debate is not mere argument, rather a form of negation in hopes of clarity.
Philosophy is truly only engaged apon Spiritually, as is Spiritual by nature.
Philosophy is about the core of an onion, meanwhile the layers are religion, science, psychology.
One cannot become an adept, or acquire depth or attain insight long as the reside on the superficial level.
Limited to the senses -- only what is sensible or logical is fallacy within itself.
To explore the Intellect properly, comes Reason. To endeavor into the Imagination -- not fantasy -- utilizing the life line of Reason does one inquiry, what is called light, or clarity, or essence, or sustenance or meaning.
Acknowledging and interacting with art work may help one understand the artist that is unknown to you. Even if you see the man, the artist, you truly can only know him by immersing yourself in to his art to see meaning, intention, connection, correlation.
I wouldnt get caught up in the physical art itself, but the meanings expounded in symbolic form.
Nice. Do you consider humans, animals, mountains, rivers, nature as art pieces?
"If quantum mechanics hasn’t profoundly shocked you, you haven’t understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.” - Niels Bohr, a Danish Physicist
No, it is the other way round: Religion informs Phylosophy, the way politics informs Phylosophy.
Phylosophy is a useless tool, as it derives all its pilars from other subjects, in particular, Mathematics.
Rumi used to hate Phylosophy - but would not say it - the way he used to hate Kings and Queens.
Maybe religion, or more properly God, informs philosophy?
Philosophy informs everything - cooking, sport, music, fishing, chess, prostitution, satellite design…… everything
@2:40 you say we can't have a God that is both good and evil. That premise is wrong. You're missing variables! It is the choice of man to be evil. We have free choice in this slow mass time universe. Energy traveling at c does not experience mass, time or distance. The consciousness of the universe does not experience time. The reason for mass is so it can be consciousness too and can experience, be it good, bad, pleasurable or painful. Matter is made to be experienced. What good would a universe full of matter and energy be if no consciousness was able to experience it?
Please refine your comment. You start off with God being incapable of being both good and evil.
What does the rest of your comment have to do with *that* question?
99.99999999% of the Universe is uninhabitable by our species. No need nor evidence for consciousness outside our planet. Our consciousness is likely an emergent property of a complex brain.
@@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns I was making the point that man is evil. In the video the narrator claimed God can't be both good and evil therefore a God can't exist. But God made innocent people. You can't tell me that newborn babies didn't start out sweet and innocent, good and bad. Them sweet innocent people grew up to have a choice to be either good or bad. It does not mean God made bad people. They made that choice. Deep down inside everyone knows God is real. Those who say they don't believe are only fooling themselves. There is way too much evidence indicating God is real if you know what you're looking for.
@@cps_Zen_Run In 1981 physicist R. G. Vogelsang discovered consciousness arises from even inorganic matter. The consciousness he discovered was more intelligent than any human brain could ever be. A radioactive element called AM-241 was used as the input to his random generating program. On its maiden run it typed out 15 spaces and the words "be patient". Out the hundreds of characters on a computer, even extended ones, what are the odds of a random character generating program selecting 15 spaces in a row then the words be patient? The radioactive element displayed omniscient consciousness. It knew everything. Hence why the physicist called it the universal consciousness or God consciousness. Consciousness is a byproduct when matter decays. Guess what, all matter decays. Therefore all matter is conscious! Radioactive elements, stars, planets, rocks, dust, dirt, everything is conscious. Now you can imagine why ancient humans referred to the planets and stars as Gods. They knew more about consciousness than any of the scientists today. But that's a totally different topic.
@@BigNewGames much clearer! Thank you
An interview with just laughing does not say much.
The monster who runs this show tortured and murdered 100 billion humans before you and me and countless other life forms, who knows on how many planets in how many galaxies.
Don't dig to deep or he just might notice you!