Is Family Planning Wrong? | Ep. 293
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
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"Our Convictions on Family Planning and Birth Control" - • Episode 106: Young Chr...
I was the typical liberal atheist woman (neither of those things anymore) on the fence about having kids, and am I ever glad I did! Having them was absolutely best decision I’ve ever made. Beyond the love i have for them, I am so much happier and wiser as a mother, as a woman, our home is so much happier and fuller of love. I thank God every day he opened my eyes and heart and for them.
What made you decide to get pregnant? I’ve always been a Christian traditional wife but having kids when your biggest fear is getting pregnant is such an obstacle to overcome! I pray for a change of heart but the clock is ticking…
@@allie9462 well, at the time I wasn’t a Christian, but I think my soul was tired of the sameness of “worldly youth” if that makes any sense, and longed for more, and so my husband and I decided to have a child (we thought we’d only have one at the time), but then I wasn’t getting pregnant. The longer I went without getting pregnant, the more I realized how badly I wanted this baby, and to be a mom. I got pregnant a bit over a year later, after an endometriosis surgery. I thought I’d have issues with my second but we got pregnant right away. I suppose it was God’s way of making sure I was ready. What scares you about pregnancy?
@@allie9462 don’t fear what you don’t know ❤. There’s more and more amazing resources out there. Bradley classes are fantastic. We don’t have to carry the ignorance on through our family trees
Wow what a beautiful redeeming testimony you have. How I would love to have a friend like you. God bless you sister in Christ.
❤❤❤HalleluYah😭😭😭 Thank you Jesus for opening our eyes and changing our hearts. Please bless her for her obedience for generations to come!❤
“I don’t want to just multiply, I want to be fruitful in my home” That is so well said!!!
A couple in my church growing up had 4 kiddos and I’ll never forget the testimony they gave one Sunday. After their first two dad had vasectomy but then they got pregnant with their third. It was very high risk and mom already had a long history of women-related issues so after that baby she had tubaligation (tubes tied). Somehow It failed, and they had ended up pregnant again with a fourth child. Baby #4 was born healthy without incident. They saw it as a complete miracle from the Lord! It’s always stuck with me!
Could you share some practical ways and examples of how to find (and display) joy and delight in our children? I find myself so wrapped up in the daily mundane routine, but instead I want to REJOICE!
Me too!!
I’ve learned that finding my joy primarily in Christ, abiding in him, viewing each moment as an opportunity to worship him (even those 2am nursing sessions.. use it for prayer or focusing on an attribute of God and praising him) and point my children to Christ and his truth and the gospel… that’s where joy and love for our family overflows from. The book “treasuring Christ when your hands are full” by Gloria Furman is a great one that helps to keep an eternal mindset in motherhood.
You will live forever in heaven with Christ if you believe the gospel. Rejoice! Be selfless! These short years are not even a speckle on eternity with God in heaven! We can do all things through Christ. Pray to God for fruits of the spirit so that you can endure. I can serve my six children daily over and over again because Christ died for me and his spirit abides in me. I do not want. Praying for you and your littles. God is good and loves us. Read your Bible daily if you can. Children are such a blessing and they are only children for a little while. Teach them to serve with grace and happiness because we live forever. 🙏✨☺️😭
This was a great conversation! Growing up as an only child I didn’t enjoy other children, and only wanted to be around adults…until having kids I didn’t have an appreciation for them. But God! He completely changed my heart. My husband is one of 10. After we had 2 children very close together, he was content with the 2 but after some convincing we had a 3rd. That 3rd child brought so much joy to our family that his mind opened up to how great his childhood was with his siblings and how they are still his greatest friends. That being said, we’re pregnant with our 4th and absolutely thrilled about our growing family. ❤
Love this! We took a break before a 3rd because my husband and I were a bit uneasy about growing our family. Now that baby #3 is here, we can't imagine deciding not to have more :)
❤❤
I found this podcast so relatable! My husband and I tried having kids for about 8 years and it just not happening. I was so bitter, sad, depressed and unhappy for most of these years until one day I decided to give it all to God and just said "I put it in your hands lord and if it's meant to happen it will happen if is not, please help me accept and help me serve you in gratitude". I think about a year later I was much better emotionally we got a call and were asked if we would take a newborn baby in our home (this was a coworker relative) to which we immediately said yes. We took him in right away and the following year we took his baby brother, two years later another baby sister and a year later another baby brother. Our last baby we were able to foster for one year in which the biological mother was trying to recover from addictions and get back on her feet. 6 years into it we have adopted the 3 oldest siblings, and the baby will always be my baby even though his custody was returned to her, but we are able to see him on weekends and he will always be part of our family. I am so grateful the lord chose this path for me, and I got to be the mommy to these amazing kids.
Bless your heart, misslopez🙏
I have two kids that are almost 4 years apart. I would have liked to have them closer together but had trouble getting pregnant. My second kid had serious health problems requiring a bone marrow transplant at 4 months old. We found out my husband has a genetic condition that has a 50% chance of passing on to kids. We decided that having more kids would be irresponsible in our situation. We feel that having two kids is God's plan for us.
Great conversation on actually seeking answers in scripture.
The Lord truly does open and close the womb. We welcomed our second child 1 month ago. My first pregnancy was very challenging. I was so sick the entire time and ended up having an emergency c-section.
We decided to pursue Natural Family Planning to wait 18 months before conceiving again to allow me to heal, rebuild my strength, and have the best chance of a vbac.
The 18th month came and I chickened out. I was so scared of another awful pregnancy, but the Lord had other plans. For some reason, my body ovulated several days late that month. I was being very active in the summer heat, so I misread the signs. I got pregnant that month anyway.
This last pregnancy was much easier. I’m actually excited for another one! On the advice of my doctor though, we need to wait at least a year before conceiving to help prevent placenta accreta since I had a second emergency c-section.
Watching out for our health is wisdom, not a lack of faith.
I JUST had my second baby two days ago; a growing family and what that looks like is definitely on my mind. Thank you and God bless!
Much rest, recovery, peace and congratulations to you and your family ❤
Loathed babysitting as a teen and preferred adults as a kid…was terrified of being a parent someday…and God changed my heart and we had 4 kiddos in 3.5 yrs with twins and I feel like I got the best life promotion ever!!! I LOVE being their mommy!!!!
I can so relate to not enjoying children! Do you recall what the Lord pressed on you to change your mind? Thanks
@@allie9462 my perspective changed with many realizations. Such as realizing that I didn’t need to parent the way, my sister permissively parented and that I could raise children that we actually enjoyed & others did, too. 😂 also realizing that when I thought about having kids, I was always picturing them being kids. But that they really do grow up and when I become 50 60, 70, I didn’t want an empty house just the 2 of us and miss out on a richer life that is share with people who’ve grown into young men and women in their 30’s, 40’s etc who are some of my best friends and we share history together deeper than any friends I could make. Beloved ones that I get to give my Photobooks to and my memorabilia rather than them going to goodwill because I have no children. I thought about how my own parents are my two best friends besides my husband, and that through God’s grace with wise parenting, my children can have that with me and me with them. And there is nothing quite like your kids. it’s just different, it really is. You can love, or even try to like lol! other people’s kids, but when you hold your own baby, when it’s born, it’s literally like part of your heart is walking around with its own feet. I’ve seen many people go from their 20s to late 30s wishing that they started sooner after having one child and wishing they could have several because they didn’t know how special it would be their timeline short to have more. I heard wise advice that said try to have your first babies by age 30, and think about how many children you may want to have and count backwards. That really helped me. God bless you with wisdom and peace. ✨🙏🩷
Thank you for this video! I appreciate all of your thoughts and your desire to follow God’s path!! You guys are very encouraging!
We’ve decided for our family that we won’t plan on having a specific number, but after each child, we would ask the Lord whether He wants us to have the next child and when that would be. So far, God has been very faithful in answering our prayers and questions!! God knows!!
What a beautiful honest conversation. Your transparency comes across so deeply in this video! Well done...well spoken 🎉
Yes Katie! This video was so needed in the Christian space. Sending to all my mom friends
We "planned our ways" with a diaphragm (that I probably used wrong!) but the Lord directed us with a pregnancy 4 months into marriage. It was really hard at first, but now we are SO thankful for our awesome daughter. We're also thankful to have gotten pregnant so early into marriage, because it made us totally drop smaller conflicts about laundry/dishes/etc and put those things into a healthy perspective really quickly. We're now expecting #3 this fall!
This has been such a wrestling in my heart every day recently. 23 weeks pregnant with my 4th. I feel like i would want to be done and so does my husband but also i dont feel right to do anything permanent and wonder if its right to decide to be done having kids. We have used natural family planning since we were married 10 years ago and i also breastfeed for long periods. At this point we would continue doing that snd want to be open to the Lord changing our hearts for a 5th+. I do wrestle with not wanting to be done for selfish reasons like not being too old when having babies or wanting my kids to be able to do certain activities and not being able to afford that for tons of kids. I really loved the focus on makijg sure our heart is in the right place when it comes to having kids and also just delighting in the ones you have in this season. I think i am too stressed and worried about the future number of kids right now so i want to change that attitude.
I also feel like I need to work on training my children more so they are a blessing and not a burden that makes us not want to have more !
I had our 4th a year ago and this is where I am too. I don't want to reject God's will, but it's really really hard to delight in " blessings" that are incredibly dependent on you for love, life, and living! We are at the point where we are praying "Lord please help us love the children you have given us and strengthen our hearts with more courage and grace if you want to give us more." Pregnancy, labor and post partum has always been difficult for me and this last baby has really tested the limits of sleep deprivation despite all efforts to the contrary! I think it's easy to delight in children when you can't breathe without them, like so many other commenters. I don't think it's wrong to be done mentally, it's possible that is a way the Lord is telling us to steward our intimacy well. I think it's also a disservice to the ones we have when we insist on a certain "look" or family design by constantly longing for children we don't have.
@@gloriack7976 thanks for your honesty! Have you tried blacking out all light at night for you and your babies?
Thank you for sharing how the Lord has guided you in this area. I’m one of 10 children. My husband is one of 2 children. We have different perspectives on having children but those continue to shift. We have two children and plan on having more if the Lord allows!
You mentioned other factors to consider in life. One I would mention is financial. My family struggled financially growing up. It was really hard. That is one thing that we often talk about when having kids-being wise with finances. We want to be careful that we can support a growing family. The reality is that this is not the same economy that we had 30 years ago when I was born.
Wow. I so appreciated the way you approached this topic. One of the most unbiased, level-headed approaches I've ever heard on the topic. Thank you.
I’m so excited for this! I’m pregnant with our 4th and the Lord has given them to us pretty close together and I have been thinking about all of this a lot lately and even bringing it up with friends and family to hear their thoughts! So timely 🙂
Great conversation, children are a blessing indeed, but family planning is not evil - we were given the gift of our cycles to empower us!
This video came at the perfect time - my husband and I have been talking about this a lot lately. Thank you for sharing your perspective!
You guys make me smile so much. Your ability to sit and talk it out truthfully and honestly both coming from a desire to walk in the way of the lord and both desiring to be in agreement both with the lord and each other. Beautiful witness. Seeking the virtue.
I so appreciate your thoughtfulness & willingness to grow in different areas. Even though I'm quite a bit older than you guys (49), I have learned so much from you. I love how much you enjoy your children.
Excuse my longwindedness, but this is a subject that I'm very passionate about. I'm a mama to 7 kidddos on earth & 4 in heaven. My husband & I have trusted the Lord with our fertility since we were married.
A few points I think you guys may be missing:
What trusting the Lord with my womb means to me is NOT some kind of race to produce as many children as I can in my own strength, not missing any opportunity. First of all, it is God who gives the children. If we believe that God is sovereign over EVERY area of our lives, then it is He who will ultimately plan our families....along with everything else. It's just easier to see in this area because we really don't have as much control over our fertility as we might think we do. How many couples get pregnant out of wedlock while using birth control? How many couples desperately want a baby & cannot conceive?
Of course any doctrine can be abused by some & can be made into an idol. That doesn't mean we should throw the doctrine out.
I know you guys believe God is sovereign. That being the case, why would we take action to prevent the natural God-designed processes of our bodies & His primary purpose for the sexual act (conception)? If we attempt to block our fertility in some way, trusting that God can circumvent that if He wanted to, why don't we see it the other way around? What I mean is, I never hear couples who do family planning say, "You know what, if God doesn't want to give us a baby this cycle, He won't & she won't get pregnant, so we don't need to worry about taking any action because He could stop a pregnancy if He wanted to." I really only see 2 possible reasons for this: 1) We don't believe God really is sovereign or 2) We understand that God usually chooses to work within the choices that human beings make. When He doesn't, then that is a miracle, but by & large, God leaves us to the consequences of our actions. The example of Elijah not taking a job that paid more is a false analogy because taking another job is not the natural result of working. Conceiving babies during a woman's fertile years IS the natural result of having sex. We have to physically make a choice to prevent that natural result from occurring.
Of course, it is not sinful to make plans about things. Making plans is wise as long as we submit them to the Lord. (Jam 4:15) But taking concrete steps to have sex while at the same time purposefully preventing conception is an attempt to thwart what God has designed. It is like a farmer deciding not to plow his field or to plant seed & saying to himself, "If God wants to give me a harvest, He can cause birds to drop seeds over my fields & cause them to germinate or He could just override me & miraculously cause plants to grow in my fields." That just sounds silly to us. Of course God COULD do that, but God usually works within the choices that human beings make.
The totality of Scripture is clear that God's default is fruitfulness. When in doubt, that is what He desires (Gen 1:28). I don't think it's wrong to desire more children or to take measures to correct a bodily process that is broken. It's when we step outside of His natural design that we have problems. He has already designed times of rest into His creation: pre-puberty, postpartum, breastfeeding & menopause. I unerstand that some women's cycles return earlier than others, but that may be because something is amiss in the body due to a fallen world or because we are following more cultural breastfeeding principles than the way God designed mothers' & babies' bodies to work together best. His invisible attributes have been revealed to us through the things that He made. On breastfeeding as birth control, since I don't believe the Bible condones preventing conception, I don't believe in using BFing as a form of BC either. However, BFing was the way that God designed mothers to feed their babies. It is HIS design that prevents this from being a fertile time for most women. That is not the same thing as a man putting a piece of rubber over his penis to block his seed or from him spilling his seed. That is the subversion of God's design & is a direct violation of Gen 1:28 to be fruitful & multiply. It cannot harmonize with the spirit of that command, which by the way, was the 1st command ever given to man, so you could say He thought it was pretty important.
Another thing I think is often missing from this discucssion is church history. I don't know how many are aware that every Christian denomination forbade birth control (of any kind) & called it sin prior to the early 20th century. What new knowledge did the church suddenly gain from God's Word after millennia that it did not previously know? I think more likely it is that the church was influenced by the culture around it rather than by God's Word. The Catholic Church has something to teach us evangelicals about ethics in regard to ta heology of the body.
Katie admitted that her theology began to waver because of fear. I can't say the same hasn't happened to me at times. I'm glad she has found freedom. I found freedom in aligning my thoughts with God's Word in what it says about about God's sovereignty, having children, His provision & my family's little part in His grand plan. He knows what is good for me better than I do. Even through difficult pregnancies, health & financial struggles, He knows what is best. I don't. If we really want to build legacies, then we nee to look beyond our own fears, insecurities & idols that are preventing us from obeying God in all areas because He is the only one who sees the end from the beginning, who knows all of our financial circumstances now & in the future, who has plans to challenge & grow us & who sees how the next child will affect not only our family, but their local church, their community & the world at large. Let's not trust in our own understaning, but in ALL our ways acknowledge Him.
Blessings & prayers!
I want to come back and read this comment when I have time tonight
Oh gosh can I talk to you about this! Such good insight!
I appreciate your insight but breastfeeding is DEFINITELY not a time of rest for the mother’s body. I am concerned that husband and wife relationships will suffer because they start avoiding intimacy due to not wanting to take on more children. Exactly how she discussed. God created times of fertility in the cycle and times of infertility in the cycle so it obviously is not completely and only meant for reproduction. So it’s either, use birth control and have sex during the week of fertility, or just wait a week. Does it have to be such a moral conflict between the two? There can be residue or the condom could still break if God reallllly wanted to get you pregnant haha. I have seen so many messed up 10 kid families including my own fathers. They start having to fight for affection from the parents and it messes them up physiologically. I don’t recommend it to people who already didn’t want many kids 😂 anyways, this probably won’t change your mind at all because everyone justifies their opinion on this. But just wanted to input a contrasting perspective.
My husband and I came to many of the same conclusions. We had 3 children each 19 months apart. Then we had 3 late 1st trimester miscarriages within a space of 3.5 years. I had always charted and some of that time was taking a break because of the emotional pain. #4 was a hard, fearful pregnancy (plus living overseas.) Then #5 shocked us 17 months later. We chose the same stewardship-type mentality after that and were at peace being done. 3.5 years later #6 arrived and he's a miracle because hubby was overseas during fertile window. God does give-and take away-through, and sometimes despite, our plans. And they're such a joy when trained well!
Wow I really needed this. All these points you guys are talking on have been things I’ve been pondering so much after the birth of our fifth child (who is an absolute joy in every way). This bring so much clarity and peace. Thank you!!
You talked about two extremes- birth control/family planning or intentionally trying to get pregnant every cycle. I think there is a middle of the road approach that is open to life and isn’t controlling one way or the other. I have been more swayed by this view by looking at Gods Word and experiencing 4 children I wouldn’t have ‘chosen’ to have if I had based it on my feelings but have seen the huge blessing they are and Gods provision in growing my capacity and love.
I would push back because MOST people who are ‘family planning’ do so on a false assumption that they know their capacity, distrust in Gods provision and also a negative view of children. Standards of living highly and freedom to be kidless sooner are all selfish motives that often sneak in when we think we can control things.. I am still forming my thoughts in this area but I don’t see the majority of people do what you are--keeping your desire for more children.
Someone once said that ‘birth control is kinda gay’ and it really stuck with me… when we make sex purely about pleasure between spouses and remove the potential to create life from the union it leads down the road to all the sexual perversion we see in the world. If it’s just about making you and your spouse happy, why does it need to be one man and one woman?
Obviously pleasure is a big part of it- but not without the potential for life. Gods creation design. He makes us desire sex more when we are fertile- science has shown that and I don’t think that was an accident by God.
Well said!
Yes, very well said! My thoughts exactly! To be honest, I felt very unsettled in this conversation as there was really no Scripture discussed to support their feelings. A lot of the comfort Katie talks about having seems to stem from her finally being able to control her chances of conceiving rather than from the peace of God which surpasses understanding. I too am still formulating my thought on this topic, but we personally have felt convicted ourselves to trust the Lord completely in this area for our family. I was really disappointed to hear how much of their feelings and thoughts of their capability levels seemed to play into their theology rather than a thorough study Scripture.
@@joyelisabeth-ou9pn yes, I totally agree that scripture was super lacking.. Using Proverbs 16:9 to justify ‘planning’ your family seems to be not looking at all that the Bible says about marriage and children..
1 Corinthians 7:3-5
“[3] The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. [4] For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. [5] Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.”
Just one example.
@@naomilueders3134 thanks for the scripture. In submitting to husbands desire to have kids and even have sex it’s hard to find peace. First of all, as wives we can’t control our husbands desire for kids - only prayer for that and wives can’t lead or control when/how much a man wants sex. It seems like the only solution is to pray to not resent husband.
Yep I agree! We’re probably more on the planning side than preventing… but in general we’re not doing anything either way.
Thank u i have completely submitted children to the Lord. Sex doesn’t equal a conception. Its truly God’s decision but it also says in the Bible that God will release us to our own desires. He gives us the choice to sin or not. I have prayerfully let God open and close my womb in his timing.
Thank you for this video! It is such an interesting topic. We are expecting baby #2 in a few months and we want more than 2 kids but I am conflicted on if that should happen through pregnancy or adoption! Pregnancy is absolutly exhausting for me, so my husband has to do a lot of the child care and home cleaning, on top of his work, which brings a lot of guilt on my side
I am pregnant with my fourth child and my husband and I would like to stop after this one. We're wrestling with whether or not it is God's intention that his people take preventative measures when it comes to having children. Selfishly speaking we'd like to be able to! I've noticed with my own body, and from a couple of women I know, that so called 'ecological breastfeeding' will lead to a natural child spacing of at least two years. This allows for Mum's physical recovery and meet lots of needs for the infant. I wonder if this is God's built in design for child spacing and the mother's recovery? I feel somethings off when saying that I believe every child is a blessing but I've got enough!! Thanks for the food for thought!
I use ecological breastfeeding and have with all three kiddos so far. It has allowed for 2 to 3ish years between kiddos, and it is such an amazing process. By the time the next kiddo comes, the one before has gotten tons of mama time and very easily transitions to another room and usually weans. My husband and I love the process! My cycle usually comes back when I night wean at 16-18 months and at that point I get pregnant pretty quickly.
I think ecological breastfeeding can work well in theory. However, I’ve been blessed with infants who sleep and eat solids well. They didn’t want or need to nurse much after 10 months. I wanted to go longer for the benefits. 🤷🏽♀️
God will leave it up to you to be fleshly or trust in him with everything. Theres a bible verse for that! God bless ya!
I naturally followed all the "rules" of ecological breastfeeding with all of my children and always get my menstruation back around 9 months pp and can easily get pregnant again when my youngest is only just a year. We currently follow NFP and I generally am "ready" to get pregnant again when my youngest is 2. However, with 3 boys, (a stillborn daughter), homeschooling, homemaking, and some other traumatic family deaths and extreme stress over the past few years, I often wonder if having more children is not beneficial - for my own health, but also for the emotional health of my current children. My physical, mental, and emotional health is struggling. That then reflects how I parent my current children. Adding more children will only add more stress to our already struggling family. I always had the idea of 5 children in my head. I want more, but will I feel like a "failure" if we stop at 3? I haven't even listened to this episode yet, just sharing my current thoughts and what we've been wrestling with.
I will say after finishing the video that I don't breastfeed every 30 minutes and it's not an inconvenience at all for me. We made this choice based on how we feel the Lord has planned for our family to work. We don't use this for planning out our children, but it happens that way. We accept all that comes our way.
Guys i want to let you know how valuable is your podcast, i cant imagine, how you can do so much and give us this type of content. Thank God for Him allowing you to have spare time to do this, because only by Gods doing you with all the kids and jobs and duties are able to come and chat with us about things that really matter. I am so grateful to God, at first i was jealous tbh of how well you manage your time and how disciplined you are, because i liked living in a sort of a self pity bubble where i was justifying every possible way why i cannot do better, but your friendly and compassionate and inspiring personalities have given me courage to just try and try again, i believe God lead me to your channel, because i have been praying God to make me more disciplined and He has given me examples of how that looks like in a family scenario, so i’m not there where you are yet, but at least now i know how the lifestyle looks and i am trying. ❤️
This podcast episode is an answered prayer thank you❤
This was such a level headed and awesome episode
We have five beautiful little children. I want more and my husband doesn’t. It’s a heartache that I turn to God to deal with. I hope he changes his mind before we are too old. Praying for all those who want children. Such a blessing from the Lord!
Yall are just amazing blessings to so many!
Wow! What an incredible way to look at this. We are already His, our wombs are already His, therefore He is sovereign over it all. I think maybe some of the giving the womb to the Lord’s analogies might come from the free will thinking vs applying the sovereignty of God over our bodies and lives and over our children.
I became ill and bedbound for a year after my 3rd baby, my nervous system completely collapsed. Somehow I mustered up the faith to have a fourth while still being so ill. After that baby, I was bedhound and housebound another year. To say it was a trial seems like an understatement. It took so long until I was finally able to be somewhat normal. I also was faced with the realization that if I did not care for my body my children and husband could end up without a mom. It was an very, very dark valley .After a break of several years and enjoying the children what I was already Given God has actually given me renewed health and both me and my husband a desire for another baby. We are so excited to be expecting another huge blessing, baby #5!! In a side note, My mom also raised 6 kids with a chronic illness and let me say her faith has opened up to me in a new way and gives me the faith to keep going. One baby at a time is easier, and God gives you the health and desire for each.
I don't believe that purposefully exposing your existing children to being parenting their own siblings and having less attention from a mother who is ill, is unfair to them. My opinion is that we do t chase numbers of children, we work to provide our children the very best of ourselves we can.
i can’t love them more. thanks for this ❤
I think you guys are really complicating things. In my view it's as simple as this: God meant for a man and a woman to love each other (to make love when they feel it) and when He sees fit, He offers the blessing of a child. That's how people should live. Not in the extremes: trying to have as many as possible or trying to be as careful as possible with the planning. Our job is to love each other. God gives us the fruit when He sees fit. (Sorry if that's too blunt and forward. I have 3 girls, been married for 7 years and hoping God will give us more, but I'm not stressing about wanting them desperately nor being afraid it'll happen too fast. I also think that God made breastfeeding with an intention. I mean, I breastfed for 2 yrs, 1 yr and 8 months and now my 1yo still going and that has naturally spaced out my children (they're about 2.5 yrs apart each)).
I agree with you for the most part. In some women, breastfeeding works to space children farther apart. I am pregnant with baby number 6, and most of my children are 15/16 months apart. That has never worked for me, and I have nursed all of them for 12 to 22 months.
Yes, I think your perspective is very nice and may well be what God wants for many families. But you're also speaking from your own experience, and many women just simply don't have your same experience.
My oldest is about to turn 5, and I am 3 months away from receiving our 4th blessing. I have a friend who, although she strictly breastfed her babies, consistently has gotten pregnant at 2-5 months postpartum. She has 5 children, 5 years and under. She is a joyful mommy, but I do see her stretched extremely thin and very exhausted. Sometimes I feel too exhausted to be a good, joyful, present, ahead-of-the-game mommy for the kids God has already given me.
Some women have more complex situations in life than others, and they may genuinely have more complicated concerns than you may have for yourself. In such circumstances and for such women, I think Elisha and Katie's insights are not overly complicated nor over thought. It's a serious concern for many women, thinking of their health and strength in the present just as much as in the long run, to pray and search Scripture for God's design and will regarding having children/how often and how close together to have them. I appreciate how Elisha and Katie take this very seriously, and don't just chalk it all up to some overly simple answer that honestly doesn't address some more specific, and yes somewhat complicated, very real concerns. :)
It’s not complicated to steward the body God gave us. God gave us a brain and the fertile window is painfully obvious for some of us and we know when we would or wouldn’t get pregnant. I am at a point in my health where a pregnancy could very easily kill me - leaving my husband widowed with small kids. We love each other by avoiding that if possible.
I am one of 5, and My oldest brother has 7 children. Watching his life has definitely made me uncertain about having a huge family. I currently have 3. This was very encouraging, However I will say while yes we give it to the Lord and depend on him he also has given us wisdom to make good decisions. Watching my brother and his wife suffer health issues just from the exhaustion that comes with 7 kids was a bit discouraging for me. I do think it can be done but definitely takes a lot of intentionality.
Yes! God gives us access to medical info and personal discretion. It's irresponsible to be too lazy to make important decisions by saying you're leaving it to God. We are not excused from exercising our own wisdom!
Can we talk about how Elisha has a different hairstyle every video? 😆 Great podcast, this just makes me laugh.
Can you do a podcast on how to overcome pregnancy loss and trusting the lord?
Excellent talk! Thank you so much! I think with this idea of “giving your womb too God” is a philosophy made up by the Above Rubies magazine. Which I loved reading by the way…but I do think that God can give us so much wisdom in this area. It also comes down too loving yourself and then your spouse and then your children too. Or loving others like Jesus taught us to do! There can be so much blessing in that as well!
This was very helpful to me, thank you.
Thank you for this amazing topic! I’ve been married 3 years and almost 40 and pray daily to God to open my heart to wanting children but I’m not getting any closer to having a desire to have a child. Of course I would never abort a pregnancy but we take precautions. I feel so lonely in my lack of maternal desire and wonder if I’m an outlier I’m not wanting a child or if most women dread getting pregnant but do it to be obediant? Is a strong will to not have a kid the Lords guidence or is it just being of the world and selfish?
It can be either case. From a biblical standpoint, it’s not just a matter of not being called to one thing, but also being called to something else. We’re all called to be spiritual mothers and fathers in the name of the great commission and being fruitful and multiplying so that more new life will be found in Him. Biological reproduction is the most common means to do that, but the overall mission is not exclusive to that. So long as you have that sense of community mothering and putting others before yourself in other ways, then your desires are after Gods own heart. And if not, then your identity is secure and you are not going to fall away from His timeline in teaching you how to think differently.
Some people don't feel the feels until the baby arrives. Some people are not generally kid people but will change with their own. The likelihood of you getting pregnant now is pretty statistically low. (5%) Perhaps fast and pray about it I suppose.
@@RachelDee thank you- it is curious that God would say be fruitful and multiply and hold family so high and yet many women don’t want kids. Makes me feel like I’m not honoring God but then again back to the topic of Him hrsnting us the free will …
Something that people struggle to look ahead towards is when they are old. My mom has worked with the elderly for an extended period of time, and it is the saddest for those who have no children to look after them or visit them.
@@allie9462 I relate to the “well then why don’t I have the conviction like most people seem to” feeling about other things. It’s like they said in the episode. Our bodies are already His. If He wants to open your womb so to speak, He will. The being fruitful and multiplying instruction is loaded with ancient Hebraic/Jewish meaning. It was a command that did not apply only to conceiving children. They made a similar point in the episode as well about having dominion over multiple aspects of creation. As I said. If it’s still if your heart to further Gods kingdom through other avenues of discipleship, servitude, or similar mothering qualities, then you are indeed honoring Him. Don’t discount what fruitfulness and multiplication can still come from having more freed up resources than people with children.
Love this video, I also dont agree with with using conventional "protection" like IUDs and birth control, I am pregnant with my first, and I believe I'm open to having kids, but I was wondering what method do y'all use to not have kids, when you do plan?
What a wonderful conversation ♥️♥️💕 blessings 🙏
I love this but also it stings with grief as I’ve been trying to have more and lost 2. Such a hard thing because loss and miscarriage hurts knowing gods so pleased with conception!
Just a suggestion- that might seem completely unrelated to you but I would suggest to look into brain retraining with Brea Katrin here online. She has a lot of free videos to gain a grasp on it but I've worked with her 1 on 1. Most people end up there for health conditions but it is so much more. It's helped me with fear, mental health and honestly has grown my relationship so much with the Lord. I believe God has led me there to commune deeper with him. It may bring you relief both physically and mentally
God is pleased when His children are walking in fellowship with Him. I fear we put so much emphasis in these circles on "the more kids the more holy" and that's basically another gospel. Jesus is enough. Following after Jesus with one child or many children will not please Him more or less. Jesus plus anything isn't His will. Also my heart goes out to you as I understand the pain of loss. And I am so sorry. Please don't let this define you. ❤
Would be interesting to know your thoughts on gentle parenting approach:)
Hi there! Huge fan of the podcast.
Some theology questions I have pertaining to this subject.
What were some forms of "birth control" used in biblical days because there are very few references to "large families " in the Bible. None in the New Testament that I can think of.
Also, Jesus remained unmarried and childless along with Paul and a few others. Of all the things Paul could have written about in his letters, not once does he encourage the congregation to have more children.
Jesus also never encouraged Marriage or child bearing. He encouraged married ppl to remain married and not divorce.
The phrase "trust God with your womb" I've never heard over the pulpit.
The scripture "Be fruitful and multipy" is referenced alot but Jesus preached on so many other things. Also, I believe "be fruitful and multiply refers to evangelism. The same way Christ's kingdom is a spiritual one, not a physical kingdom on earth.
I'm a mother of 3, hoping to Conceive again, Lord willing, so please don't take this wrong. Just seeking some clarification on these topics.
Jesus grew up in a large family… he had at least 4 brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Jude. As well as sisters though scripture isn’t clear on how many the use of the plural means more than one. So that’s at least 7 children birthed by Mary. (Mark 6:3)
Just to give an example of a large family in the New Testament…
For starters, the women back then were probably all breastfeeding which would have led to a healthy, natural spacing between pregnancies.
Great conversation. Thank you!
I am wondering about the fifth baby now, no way it will be the last one. I have changed so much with every baby as well. I have not experienced the accessory mindset, though, hearing about it made my stomach sink.
Hi there do you guys have a free email subscription available? I can't afford the clubhouse but would love blog updates from you guys! ❤
Have you heard of Natural Family Planning or Natural Reproductive (NaPro) Technologies? It sounds like your method was something like the rhythm method.
Yes some want children as accessories or free employees
I normally really enjoy listening to you two, even when I dont agree with you, but this honestly felt like you were jumping through a lot of hoops to justify your current decisions.
Using some for of contraceptive and trying to have as many kids as possible fall into the same category- trying to control things on our own and not truly leaving things in God's hands.
You made your current decision out fear, not because you trusted that the Lord knows best.
There is a place of living your life, enjoying the marriage bed, without worrying where you are in your cycle and knowing God will give if and when he sees fit. Yes sometimes that means 13 months apart (I've been there) but other times in can be years apart. God knows best and He wants us to trust him.
im SO excited to hear this
So I’d love if some other mamas of faith could weigh in on this. How does being open to as many kids as possible fit in with high risk pregnancies and all C-sections?
I’m one of 10. I’d also pictured myself with a lot of kids. My husband and I are also the type who get pregnant effortlessly. Our first year of marriage we practiced natural family planning despite my baby fever 😅 since he was finishing dental school/I was getting my master’s and he just didn’t feel ready! Then we got pregnant the first month we started trying.
After her birth I wanted another child asap (to get a do over). Her birth and breastfeeding experience, did not meet my expectations AT ALL. We had significant scary complications on my end that ended in a long labor and a C-section. She wasn’t able to latch either. At the time I felt like I had failed twice. It was rough on our marriage since I just felt overwhelmingly disappointed with the introduction into motherhood. My baby was beautiful and very, very easy. I just had a hard time moving past the way things turned out. We ended up getting pregnant again around 12 months after prayer and consulting with the godly couple from church who had done our premarital counseling. We had used hormonal birth control for several weeks/months following each birth. We are uncertain if it’s wrong.
His birth also ended in a scary C-section after a long labor with complications. (GD, low fluid, failure to progress, OP positioning, hemorrhage, blood transfusion).
Baby number 3 was a bit surprising as I’d misjudged the ovulation window. She and number 2 are 17 months apart. Another C-section this time for preeclampsia and GD. She was an enormous baby born at 37 weeks exactly via C-section. We found out at the birth that my scar was opening on the inside and her sac was bulging through!
I’m pregnant again with our fourth now (23 weeks). I struggle with feeling like stopping now would be a lack of trust in God. On the other hand, I do think we have some free will in this area. I have yet to see another mom with complicated C-sections who is convicted not to prevent any pregnancies. I want to honor my husband’s wishes too to stop at 3 since he has been so caring and sweet during the pregnancies and recoveries. I know he loves our children deeply. This baby is supposed to be delivered at 36 weeks. I don’t know if it’s right to keep having children if it’s dangerous and they need to be born earlier and earlier.
I think we need to be careful in saying we aren’t trusting the Lord if we don’t have as many kids as God gives us. God gives us common sense as well! We need to listen to doctors who may say it is dangerous to you or baby to keep getting pregnant or having illnesses or something where it isn’t wise to keep having kids. Also, some people mentally cannot handle multiple children so it isn’t wise stewardship to keep having kids and overwhelming yourself. I am a mom of 6 and for multiple reasons we have permanently closed my womb and I don’t feel like the Lord is angry with us, I believe He is happy we used wisdom and discernment!
After 3 c- sections, we closed up shop. I was very bitter and depressed for a couple of years, seeing as I wanted 6. For health reasons, I was able to just have the 3. Over a decade later, I am so thankful that we closed up shop. We love and mostly enjoy our teenagers and are able to do things as a family that would be very difficult to do , physically and financially, if we had a bunch more kids or babies and toddlers. Also, after living in another country for many years, it amazes me how much of an American Christian issue this is. Many Christians in other counties would not be able to afford to have so many and also afford educate them. Not practicing family planning is considered to be somewhat irresponsible. Better to feed and educate 1-2 kids than live in complete poverty and not be able to afford to educate 8-10 kids. God gave us minds to use. Children are a blessing, but we also need to be wise and know our limits, emotionally, physically and financially.
If you’re already expecting (CONGRATULATIONS), then you don’t need to decide that now. It’s understandable feelings behind that question. Maybe it’d be better to ask the Believers who are closest and most trustworthy to you what they honestly think. Or better yet just be intimate and draw nearer to God while in the ambiguous unknown.
I always warn against the “not trusting in God enough” when it comes to making explicit prescriptions for what one another ought to do when it’s not explicit for everyone in Scripture. Ive seen too many people be spiritually abused and manipulated that way.
Ehhh, I don’t have all the education about increased risk of health problems with each additional c-section, but if I were you I would do research about it, pray about it, and avoid conception unless/until you have a clear conviction from God about it. Your incision will need plenty of time to heal well anyway, so take that healing time to seek the face of God. But a vaginal birth after cesarean is actually generally safer than repeated c-sections, and vaginal birth success rate is higher with planned home birth than hospital. I would consult with an experienced home birth midwife as well and get their input. They don’t usually take clients while they believe to be too high risk because of course they don’t want to jeopardize you, the baby, or themselves. So I think they will be able to tell you candidly whether it is best to avoid home birth and they tend to have good education around risks, what is normal, and what is not. If I got pregnant again after 3 c-sections, I would definitely look into home birth for increased chance of successful VBAC. Hope that helps? Check this article out. I saw some good info and some questionable, so take with a grain of salt; but you can use this as a starting point in your research.
www.acog.org/womens-health/experts-and-stories/the-latest/deciding-between-a-vbac-and-a-repeat-cesarean
I think it is best that you discuss with your husband & pray about it with him. The two of you can have that conversation with God & come to a decision rooted in peace. I would not include anyone on the internet or apps in on this. It is so personal & really only you & your husband will feel peace in your hearts when you have that conversation with God.
Chastity in marriage is possible as well. Natural family planning
We dont know more than God so letting him choose when, even if we think its too early to get pregnant or we dont feel ready. Did PAUL choose when and where to preach or did God?
46:38 For what it’s worth, this is not the mindset and teaching that the Jews had. A potential pregnancy that passed was what the meaning behind the woman’s blood being “unclean”. The post Jesus church’s Christian ethic stance across denominations is split on it. Totally appreciate all the other points that were made. Just wanted to correct that this specific point is using western logic as the basis for the opinion.
We have 6 under 12 and whilst we are believers, we do not fit the stereotypical cookie cutter form. I (mum) have a lot of tattoos (from my wild raging heathen days lol) which are visible and we are into x sports, so the crowds we are around are not those who have more than 1-2 kids max. I am often asked if I will have more and to be honest, the more pushback and snarkiness I receive (which is rare, but I do feel the vibes), the more I feel like growing our family more haha. Because, every one of our children is an absolute treasure and such a blessing to our lives. And our culture is so toxic that no one wants to have children anymore. Plus, it gives me joy to know I am annoying the godless eugenicists who fund all the Big Ph. junk lol
Yes! Wow what a blessing! I feeling the same way. One more baby just for that comment lol and each is so unique and special. Makes me wonder if all the babies we haven’t had yet and how they can be. We have five very little children and my husband says he’s done but I’m not. I hope he changes his mind before it’s too late. I hold my youngest so tight thinking they might be the last. I mean people have 10 children and we barely have half of that lol 😂
I personally believe in replicating the safe gap (without abortifacients) usually provided by breastfeeding if breastfeeding doesn't keep your period away. I had 2 in 15 months. Never again.
What about when you have had high risk pregnancies due to pre eclampsia and emergency c sections?? So far everyone has given their opinion about relatively “normal” births. In my case due to my scar and my high risk pregnancies I have been advised my many many doctors and midwives to wait 18 months before getting pregnant again to be on the safe side both for the baby’s and mother’s sake. That is what we have done so far (currently pregnant with my third). We hope to have many more children but we are following that pattern. That means that we have to intentionally use prevention. But according to some of your comments I am going against God’s will?? Do you really believe that? I believe that it is God’s will that we have been told to wait in between each child. And I don’t believe that God intended for me to stop being intimate for that long either. But reading your comments, which in some instances were very judgmental, has made my heart sink 😢
God gives us common sense and claiming to leave it up to God while ignoring the medical advice he has made available to us is, in my opinion, just irresponsible. We wear seatbelts, we cook our meat, we don't jump on the sea if we can swim...why would we try to 'prove our Faith's by acting irresponsibly! I think God did not intend for us to use trusting him as an excuse to use none of the common sense or discretion he blessed us with!
Very disappointed with the podcast. Make love without intent or avoid of children. Breastfeed according to baby needs not to benefit your sleep preferences or prevention of pregnancy. God is more aware of your health than you are too. Seems like there is overcomplication going on.
Pharisee