Normal 6 volt positive ground Ford Model A alternator operation
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- These two videos were recorded in early 2015 specifically to help my friend Mark with his Model A battery and alternator problem (that is why I refer to 'Mark' and email in the video). These two separate videos were combined into one and posted for public use in case this information can help someone else in the future.
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What a beautifully restored Model A sedan. Everything looks pristine! The motor runs absolutely wonderful and QUIET...
Thank you, Lynn. It always runs like that. Super reliable too!
Great video Paul! Wow this one was from a few years back, good to know this. I am glad I had the chance to see it. Thank you for sharing, have a great weekend.
I love that there is a 6v pos ground alternator for these cars, I have never seen the need to convert a 6v to 12v and this ends that arguement.
Yes! In an upcoming video, I will show how to convert a standard GM alternator i to 6V, pos ground.
Question answered. Adjust 3rd brush on generator. Would like to keep A as original as possible but Alternator must be the way to go.
The nominal voltage for a lead acid cell at rest is 2.1 volts. The 6 volt battery has 3 cells which makes 6.3volts. You cannot say the battery was discharged by simply measuring the terminal voltage at rest.
To measure if a battery is discharged, you need to measure the terminal voltage only when current is being drawn from the battery. A better and more accurate test would be to measure the terminal voltage of a fully charged known good battery which has remained at rest with the engine off for 24 hours and with say the headlamps switched on. Then later you may use that as a reference e.g. the battery discharge can be gauged if the voltage is appreciably lower than the full charge voltage under the same load conditions.
Thank you Terry.
FYI, I am an electrical engineer. I did this video for my very un-technical friend Mark (as spelled out in the description). Not using flooded batteries in these cars, and I was trying to really, really "dumb it down" for Mark to follow along. Eventually, I posted these on CZcams as one solid video because Mark thought it would help others like it helped him.
For the record, his alternator wasn't charging. This helped him to see how a modified alternator is supposed to behave in one of these cars.
What is the wrong reading of the 6 volt system and the way to solve the problem?
Have you ever used a power master positive ground generator for Model A Ford sold by summit if so how would you install it and what amp meter Lloyd Rosenthal
No. Those are expensive. I convert $10 swap meet GM alternators to 6V positive ground myself for about $40.
Hi Paul,
I'm from Belgium and I drive a Mercedes 170 SCA from 1951. I'm very impressed by all your videos about Ford model A which I love so much. I learned quite a lot about oldtimers but I'm not a technician.
I have one question: Are you not afraid, being a daily driver, that your car will be stolen on a parking space?
Best regards,
Heribert
No. Nobody these days, unless they watch my videos, would know how to get it started to steal it!
What is the correct reading for a 6 volt system?
I've been looking for information that I can't find, and then it dawned on me, I'll bet Paul Shinn knows the answer! Does a 2GA braided ground strap have a higher capacity than a regular insulated 2GA battery cable the same length? TIA
Yep!
@ModelA I knew you'd know! What do you suspect would be the equivalent of a 2GA braided cable in a regular round cable? 1GA? 0GA? 00GA?
@@robinimpey101 It has more to do with keeping the conductor cool.
@@ModelA Gotcha, so because the braided ground strap can easily dissipate heat, compared to an insulated cable, it's conductivity is affected less. Meaning a 2GA uninsulated braided cable will have a greater capacity than a 2GA round insulated cable, do I have this correct Prof Shinn?
@@robinimpey101 That's pretty close. Yep.
I was wondering if you could tell me how you ground your battery? Some people tell me to ground it using two grounding straps. Others are telling me to ground the battery and then ground the engine separately. So far I've grounded the battery to the frame and finally got the starter to turn over, but I'm still not getting spark (I'm working on that, which is a separate issue). Oh, by the way, I'm working on a 1928 Ford Model A Doodlebug, original tractor conversion. Thanks!!
How about doing one with a Model A original generator & adjusting the 3rd brush.
Yes! We have recorded some footage for that and are planning to add it to a video soon.
6v positive, when hooking up a charger. Red charger clamp to red/positive battery or red clamp to positive side ?
On the battery, red is always positive (+) and black (-) is always negative. When putting a clamp on the frame for ground instead of directly to the battery, that's when you have to know which polarity ground is.
@@ModelA So the red clamp from the charger goes to the positive battery post/The ground ???
Is there a way to put a 6 volt PG regulator on and continue to use the generator in lieu of an alternator?
Sure
Any videos on how to properly adjust a zenith carburetor?
Haven't done that yet, but that is a really good idea! I will put that on the "to do" list right now. Thank you!
Hi Paul I find your videos extremely helpful! I just installed a Wagner A-150-6P six volt positive ground alternator on my 1929 Roadster. When running, the new amp gauge I installed reads 15 amps at fast idle and doesn't drop even after five minutes at low idle. Is that normal?
Sounds like you might have a dead cell in your battery. check the voltage when running and when cold.
Paul, did you ever post a video on converting a GM alternator to 6v positive? Our 46 charges only while we are traveling at speed. Since we do cruises and car shows I want the alternator. Any source for the conversion parts? Been doing these alternators for ever, changing regulators, brushes so I have the ability. Also they are so plentiful around me, live right by a u pull and save yard. Have you and Tina recovered from the road trip, loved seeing the coverage. I hope to meet up at the Gilmore event. Bring a 2m handie, I'll have mine, national calling simplex freq. 73 for now. N8IWS
Still working on it. Every time I go to dad's to record it, he ha me do a "quick" little chore that turns into all day, and we never record it. The parts and alternators have been on his bench waiting to record that video for months! His latest long term project is laying concrete blocks on the ground under the carport. He is somewhat obsessed with that project right now. I will have an HT on 146.52 at Gilmore! Well, at least at the hotel.
Hi Paul big fan of the channel! Quick question I am thinking on switching from a generator to a alternator. What is your opinion on what is the best alternator to get? I am looking at the 60 amp Nu Rex one as well as a similar one from the Model A Medic.
Thanks, Sam! I have one of the NuRex alternators, and it works great. I don't have any experience with the other one you mentioned.
Thanks this was very helpful 😊
Does anyone ever run a smaller pulley to keep the alternator spinning faster? These model A engines seem to idle at a low RPM, and operate at a lower RPM than modern engines.
Yes.
I'm new to the A family and was wondering what is the meter you used to test your alternator,I just changed my starter Bendix and was wondering if the alternator is strong.My battery goes down sort of fast.Can it be the alternator or do I need to check another part.Its a 1929 Model A,rightside drive.
Welcome!
I was using a Fluke brand volt/ohm meter. I really suggest using an analog meter instead, but the Fluke was handy when I recorded.
If your battery goes down really fast, then your battery is likely in need of replacement. Usually, 5 years is about all you get reliably, after that, you are on borrowed time.
Why do you have an alternator when generator is stock?
Because this car gets driven at night a lot, and lights that stay bright are a safety measure.
@@ModelA Planning this conversion on our 46 Ford. My uncle for years talked about converting his 34 Ford for years. Saw him at Motor Muster and it took the club members to do the final push. He finally listened to me !! 73 OM de N8IWS.
I have a stock generator changes 10 amp driving. Turn lights on & it drops to minus 10amps is that normal. Playing with it, running 10 amps flip master off stays running, turn lights on it dies?
@@carljohnson3856 No, not normal. Troubleshooting: try turning on the parking lights (cowl lights or inside the headlights, depending on what you have). Should only slightly discharge. Then what I'd do is to remove one of the headlight bulbs and try turning on the lights again. If you only get a slight discharge, repeat the process with the other headlight. Hopefully you'll pinpoint the problem. Then check all of the wiring and grounds on the side that gave you the big discharge.
6.3 volts is not low. It is nominal for a lead acid battery! You cannot tell if a battery is discharged by voltage alone. You measure charge via electrolyte reading. A load test will test the overall health.
The Optima is a sealed battery. How do you propose to read the electrolyte?
@@ModelA good question. I have always chosen a battery for my Ford that is no sealed so I may use a hydrometer test as is is the most faithful indicator of battery health.
Note the 6.3 volt is the settled voltage of a battery fully charged after it has been removed from the charger for a length of time. As the battery ages, the capacity diminishes but the terminal voltage always settles to 6.3 volts. Also as the capacity diminishes over age, the internal series resistance increases. So the best alternative to testing a sealed battery is a load test. This is done by applying a resistive load and then measure the voltage droop.
The Ford typically uses an 80 Amp Hour battery. I would apply a load, say switching on the lamps, measure the battey voltage directly across the terminals where it should remain at no less that 6.1 volts and let it run for say half an hour. With the lights drawing say 10 amps, 5 amp hours of the capacity will have been drawn. The battery should remain at about 6.0 volts on a new battery and would droop to say 5.7 volts on a moderately used battery.
I haven't done this for a while but I hope you get the picture.
I guess I should have mentioned before, I have a degree in electrical engineering and know very well how batteries work. I am not disagreeing with you, just want to throw that out there and save some time. I chose the Optima batteries because I like how their voltage doesn't fluctuate as much with state of charge or temperature. The tight spiral cell structure makes them behave differently. Almost like giant capacitors. The energy to size ratio is outstanding.
@@ModelA oh okay. My degree is in Electrical Engineering as well. I was only disputing 6.3 volts as being a discharged battery.
@@tedrobinson372 I should not have used the word "discharged". I did not have a script, was just mumbling stuff. More accurately should have said "at rest".