High-end vs Entry-level Mountain Bike: Is the Extra Money Worth It?
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
- The age-old question - Carbon vs Aluminum mountain bikes. Is it worth spending the extra money for a high-end carbon build? We're going to find out.
We have two transition Sentinels for the showdown. The contenders are the carbon GX build vs the aluminum NX kit. We did some back-to-back testing to help you decide if it's worth splurging for the carbon bike. Stick around to find out.
0:00 Intro
0:52 Baseline Lap - Carbon
1:55 Comparison Lap - Aluminum
7:35 Analysis and Conclusion
Read the full article here on our website - www.bebikes.com/the-hub/carbo... - Sport
Gotta love it when a 4000$ bike is "entry level" haha great review
Compared to these $20k bikes it is entry-level
@@miau31333 Yep, $4k bikes are becoming the norm these days
Lol a little out of touch
“Entry level” is relative 🤷🏽♂️
Pb does the budget bike tests for under 3k full suspension and with those there are massive holes in the build spec of plenty of them (like poor brakes you wouldn't ride anywhere with proper dh trails). So it kind of makes sense to consider entry level as "you get all the things and they all work when you push them hard". Not defending it but there are different channels for different priorities and this guy pushes hard enough that this what he would recommend for an entry level capable bike
As a long time very expensive (at the time) carbon bike owner I can clearly say - It is NOT worth it. My next bike is going to be aluminium. Carbon is overrated.
I agree with you.
How come?
Such a pretty trail, those autumn trees look excellent. Nice review too
I switched from Carbon Trek Slash to Alu Norco Sight. Moved over GX groupset, put a lyrik ultimate on, frame came with Super Deluxe Air Shock. Alu rims (crank brothers) and Alu bars (Chromag) and can say that the Norco, though heavier (pound and a half), is a far better climber (better geo), descender with jumps and all. I think a well spec'd Alu bike can be just as good or better than a carbon bike, also saves you money for the post ride beers with your buds.
The best message in this video was at the end - just buy what you can afford, whether its carbon or aluminium as long as you're having fun it's all good. I got into MTB riding last year and bought an entry level Orbea Occam - it's not carbon and doesn't have the highest spec components (apart from bar and flat pedals I upgraded) but I absolutely love it and always have a ton of fun when I hit the trails.
Pretty much what it comes down to. They're all a ton of fun.
Great vid as always. I'm currently running a Ripmo v1 Fox Factory with XT groupset and Onyx hubs with WTB KOM Light wheels, and a stock Ripley AF Fox Performance with Deore groupset.
I discovered climbing and DH performance were near identical (aside from difference in travel). The entire DW Link platform exactly the same on both bikes: very stable climb platform and surprisingly playful. I did not notice the slight weight difference between the 2 (Medium) frames.
However the biggest difference I felt were in components. I installed my Ripmo components on to my Ripley AF and added Maxxis Rekon/DHF2 (2.4 tanwall) and noted a huge performance difference. My pedaling efficiency was far smoother with Onyx hubs, lighter WTB KOM Light wheels and a lighter XT setup, and even the DH was incredibly quick because of the zero drag Onyx hubs; and braking was far superior with XT/IceTech compared to the Deore/RT66. Suspension behaved beautifully despite running Fox Performance. I could barely notice the difference between Performance and Factory.
The Ripmo with Deore groupset and Ibis 933 wheels/hubs did not feel as smooth and efficient and climbing really dragged more than usual since I run front/rear Assegai on the Ripmo. Braking was terrifying since the Deore isn't as modular as the XT, and the RT66 rotors started howling like a banshee and overheated thus losing brake power (the IceTech never did that). As usual the suspension performed beautifully on the DH.
Overall, I noticed both frames behaved nearly identically. The carbon did feel slightly stiffer, and the alloy does not flex so drastically as most people would claim. The average rider will not notice these. I've concluded its not about frame material. My Ripley AF has even broken DH PRs I've set with my Ripmo. If the suspension platform is to your liking, then it doesn't matter what you pick. The biggest factor are your components. Yes there is a vast difference between goupsets both drivetrain and brakes. Hubs are a huge factor in you pedaling efficiency; my Onyx zero drag instant engagement hubs easily out-pace on the DH not only a typical 36 point engagement, but even the likes of high engagement such as I9 and Chris King because there is drag (Chris Kings are still superior to I9s though). I'm only a 150 lbs rider and I can strangely pick up speed quicker than my heavier friends running DT 350s, I9s, and CKs.
The are my findings, but ultimately ride what makes you happy. Just be grateful you've got a bike and are able to enjoy this wonderful activity we're luck to have.
Keep up the great work.
I'd have expected the Ripley AF to be poppier, the Ripmo V1 is extremely linear out back (and no cascade link for the V1 to fix it). I have a Ripmo AF and upgraded the stock Deore brakes to XT with Ice tech rotors and went to a 203 out back, but I had to run my Deore rear brake for a few weeks recently while waiting on a warranty replacement lever for my XTs and I found the Deore works dramatically better on the Ice tech rotors, had almost the same modulation as the XT, vs them going to light switch mode within 30 seconds on the RT66 rotors.
@@mrvwbug4423 that's an interesting thought, I'll keep my Deore brakes then and change to IceTech rotors; that might solve my issue. My Ripmo v1 was a bit poppy when I ran a DPX2, but I changed it to an X2 to get a more linear feel as it's my enduro/dh rig. My Ripley AF is my XC/trail mellow rig
Damn. I don’t care about the review. I’ll watch this video just for the pure prettiness of the terrain. 👍👍👍❤️❤️❤️❤️
Utah sure isn’t a bad place!
@@bikersedge which trail were you riding in Park City?
@@carlamerrill2917 silver queen and Red Bull.
GREAT video. Loved it. Have been eyeing the new Transition Patrol and Spires lately.
The colors on that trail are incredible!
Like you mentioned with the drive train, "when it does fail, upgrade it then." That's my outlook getting into this hobby. I've been looking at some solid entry level kits, I can see lots of potential upgrade points, but I don't have a skill level to need the top of the line. Break things in on the cheaper stuff and then I'll get a good feel of improvement when I do make them. Hell I've been starting out on a $50 bike, after a couple of months I have a pretty good feel for what's terrible about it (Though I've been having a lot of fun riding my local black trials with it, so if you're broke like me, yes you can ride a lot of the trails on a shit bike, just don't expect to be going overly fast or getting much air.) I'm now looking forward to getting a proper entry bike next year and just seeing where it takes me. It'll be nice to have something that doesn't weigh over 60lbs, a fork that doesn't feel like its going to shatter on a drop over 2 feet, brakes that actually work and a drive train that doesn't jump all over the place during a climb.
You really have to look at suspension components. They can be expensive and difficult to upgrade. A new fork on an "entry level" bike can cost you half the value of the bike easily.
@@DragNetJoe Oh yeah, no doubt there. You do have to make sure the components on what you're getting is something that's going to work for you.
@@JellyJonesey what bike did you end up getting?
Thank you very much for comparing the carbon to the aluminum model. It’s a battle I have been thinking in my head for my upgrade from my AL SantaCruz Chameleon. For a full squash bike, i am strongly considering transition now cuz of your channel.
Well if you want to upgrade to the newest chameleon you can only go aluminum because they ditched the carbon version.
I'm a 'high value' guy (performance/quality vs price = value) who keeps his stuff for a long time. My wife drives an Accord even though we could afford an Acura. I have Shimano MT520 brakes on my aluminum Chameleon. I use DT 350 hubs. Etc. I don't see myself ever owning a carbon frame because it doesn't fit into my personal wants and needs. I would love to see a true double blind test of the exact same bike, with all exact same components and settings, just the frame material being different, but wrapped so the rider couldn't see it and the rider also doesn't know what the test was even for.... Could 10 out of 10 average trail riders accurately detect the one single difference between the 2 bikes? Me thinks not. Thanks for the great content and test, I really enjoy your stuff!
That’s an awesome idea. Sounds like a logistical nightmare but I’ll see if I can make it happen.
Apart from weight and the inherent benefits of lighter weight, I doubt people will notice a damn difference. They speak of “compliance” only when they know it’s carbon. Lol
The only thing is unless you build your own you won't have identical components. They will be specd accordingly by package and the avg biker is just buying that so to some extent this is true to what you would be choosing between
@@bikersedge I was speaking more of a fantasy test that "someone should do" and not trying to put it on you! Sorry if it came across like that.
You can 100% tell the difference between carbon + alu. The rocks sound diff as they ping off the frame :)
Appreciate the review, I got the nx alloy build as it's more affordable. Super fun and exciting bike, glad I'm having fun and not getting punished for putting money into dexent components with aluminum frame.
Another awesome video on a topic that’s rarely covered! Thanks BE!
Glad you liked it!
I recently bought a new Rocky Mountain Altitude A50. Bikes are a bit hard to get these days and I wanted the carbon version. The carbon version has the same components as the alloy version and only 3 lbs. lighter. My shop had my size in the alloy, for $1300 less, so that’s what I got. This enabled me to upgrade a few things that made it perfect. DT Swiss 54 star ratchet, One Up carbon bars and an oval chainring. I may upgrade to carbon rims eventually, but, I’m still on the fence on that. Upgrading from my 2013 Altitude, what a difference, this bike is amazing! It’s really fun and I love it.
Good choice! Don't get carbon unless you have a shit ton of money or you want better ride quality.
Semper Fi. I just got a Rocky Mountain Fusion 40. I'm just kinda starting out. I think I'm getting a Rocky Instinct A50 next.
I ended up getting the Instinct A50. Can't wait to get it out on the trail!
I recently upgraded from a 2016 Trek Fuel EX 7 aluminum with lower end Shimano spec and short travel suspension, to a 2021 Trek Fuel EX 9.8 carbon with higher end mid travel suspension. Strangely, I suspect the older bike climbs better overall, unless on really techy stuff where the new bike has better traction. That could be the steep head tube angle. Big difference on descending. The steeper and gnarlier the trail, the more the new bike eats it up. The stability of the 9.8 is really eye opening and confidence inspiring. Very hard to knock it off line, even though it has carbon wheels.
Thanks Conner, curious to have you do the same comparisons with the Ripmo & Ripley carbon / AF. Cheers!
I was hoping this video would be a stand in for all carbon vs alloy comparisons. While individual builds will vary from brand to brand, the thoughts and opinions from this showdown will carry over.
When I decided to get a new bike after years of not riding I was between the ripmo and sentinel. I ended up going with a ripmo after with the idea that if I liked the bike/geometry that I could swap in a carbon frame down the road when I can afford it. Thanks for the best reviews on the web guys
That could be a very interesting series, ESPECIALLY for brands that spec out bikes exactly the same, frame material being the only difference like Santa cruze
If only Ibis was still making a DVO build carbon Ripmo, they only had DVO builds for maybe 6 months on the carbon Ripmo. Or I suppose they could do a Fox build Ripmo AF.
Thanks for another calm, honest, detailed review - especially of this BIG Question that I'm sure so many of us have. I would guess that the majority of bike customers need to be budget-conscious, and the price difference between carbon & aluminum is substantial!
Glad you like the style!
Yes!! Such a eye opener. Wondered about this for a while. Simple and to the point video. As always!! Top notch stuff 😎🤩
Thanks! Glad you liked it!
I’m having a propain Tyee alloy build, but speccing certain parts to the top so that I can save where I want, but really go more high end on other things. For example: GX drivetrain, KS dropper, stock wheel-set, bars and headset on the cheaper side, and sram code RSC, lyrik ultimate and super deluxe ultimate on the higher end.
I know GX isn’t the cheapest thing available, but it was the cheapest drivetrain when ordering the bike compared to xo1 and axs
The total price without any additional taxes or shipping came at about 3200€, but then the shipping to Norway costs 200€ and the taxes are at about 25% of the total price.
Try Speeding up the rebound on the suspension with a heavier build . Brings back the poppy, lively feel.
That’s a great tip!
Just get a megneg kit for ether one and it will make it super super poppy, did this with my carbon gx sentinel
@@fuegochicken3611 no megneg for Fox suspension…
@@fuegochicken3611 Isn't the megneg supposed to make the shock more supple off the top rather than poppier, kinda like RockShox answer to the X2? Though I know getting both is possible with a cascade link (the link on the Ripmo accomplishes both as the curve is designed to be softer off the top while ramping up more quickly in the mid-stroke rather than linear like the stock link).
or try using the same suspension for both test bikes.......?
Great video! Helped make a decision for my new bike. What did you use to carry an extra tube/tools on your personal Sentinel in the video? Thanks
Hey thanks! It’s a wolf tooth b rad bracket with a saddle bag strapped in.
Thanks for the review. What was your elevation climb on this trail?
Great video - really detailed and helpful.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Fantastic job! Would love to see a review like this with the same components; Aluminum frame vs Carbon frame only. Also.......THOSE TREE"S ARE INSANE!!!!!!
Thanks. If I can get the bikes for that I’ll do it.
Video pov quality is sweet. Did you change anything in your setup or is this just the bright fall colors and nailing the exposure that make everything look so awesome? :)
Just an amazing autumn we had in Utah! You can thank Mother Nature for that one.
The Alloy bike might have been soaking up more of the trail chatter because the shock and fork were at the beginning of their maintenance cycles, being that it was new. Whenever I do a 50 hour service on my suspension I always notice it feeling way smoother for the first few rides. Fresh oil helps it overcome that initial friction in the stroke.
That’s a good point. The Lyrik on the GX bike has 2-3 rides on it. The shock could use a bit of love though.
many thanks for the review, great !. in my opinion the carbon frame is light to ride but "heavy" on the mind (expensive
and worried cracked when accident ).
otherwise the aluminum frame is a bit heavy to ride but "light" on mind...
so i choosed aluminum series 7.
THANKS FOR YOUR HONEST REVIEWS ABOUT THE CARBON VS ALUMINIUM BIKES. I WAS THINKING OF SAVING UP FOR CARBON BUT MAY GO TO THE HIGH END ALUMINIUM BIKE .
Glad I could help
Love the video and the impressions between the frames & build kits. Really love the look of the trail though! Live in the Kansas City metro area and obviously don't get to see that kind of scenery and trail around here. What trail and where is is located?
It’s in Park City Utah
There would probably be a more noticeable difference if the two bikes were hardtails, or roadbikes, but on a full suspension bike, the frame material is far less important. Even in the MotoGP world, plenty of manufacturers have tried to go all carbon full suspension frames, but invariably all go back to aluminum as the primary frame material (carbon fiber swingarms do appear on occasion). Carbon fiber frames do however, benefit from very effective marketing which has placed them at the top of the perceived desirability pile - that has a huge effect on how one 'thinks' a bike performs (the same thing happened back in the day when aluminum was deemed the 'new' wunder-material, and superseded highly evolved steel tubing as the frame material de'jour.....). I do appreciate you taking the time to do this comparo, but it's not really an apples to apples test. Good brakes make any bike more controllable and feel easier to handle, especially when hard on the anchors , which may have been a factor you perceived. The less powerful brakes (probably heavier calipers too), heavier wheels, hubs, cassette, derailleur - all that extra unsprung extra weight will make it feel heavier - especially far from the center of mass. Had you put the same kit from the Carbon version, on the aluminum version, you'd not be able to tell a difference....Perhaps an idea for a next video - a real apples to apples comparison?
The wheels are basically identical. Same rims and similar hubs. Same tires. The cassette certainly is heavier but not enough to make up for the difference I experienced between the bikes.
Awesome Video! I would love to see you do a video Comparing: Carbon Bike with Alloy Wheels VS Alloy Bike with Carbon Wheels.
Typically Identical Build Kit's will be $1000 different between Alloy and Carbon. (Sentinel - NX Alloy $3,899 / NX Carbon $4799) With Selling the stock wheels for $500ish that would leave you with around $1500 to purchase a WEO or I9 1/1 S Wheelset.
If you are spending the same amount of money which is better? Carbon Frame with Alloy Wheels or Alloy Frame with Carbon Wheels?
Scott spark 960 good bang for your buck on an alloy bike
Currently ride a mix GX/NX Aluminum Patrol. 35lbs but that thing climbs like a goat and descends like a beast, no complaints!....That being said i have a YT Izzo on order, interested to see how a carbon bike ride & feels.
Such beautiful trails and scenery, where were you riding?
Park City, UT. Looked to me like Three Candles up, then Silver Queen down to Mid-Mountain, then down RedBull.
@ Brian - Bingo
Exactly what I was thinking
Great review, thank you.
Hey thanks!
I do believe high-end vs entry-level with Orbea Occam H30 vs Occam M-ltd would be a better comparison. Occam M-ltd $10.500,- and Occam H30 $3400,-
Your reviews and info on this channel is just top notch! Keep up the good work!
Hey thanks.
We had to make do with what we could get. Ideally, I would have gone more expensive as well as cheaper, but I couldn't get the bikes to make it happen.
@@bikersedge I understand. Never the less, it was a informative and a relevant video for us!
After 30+ years of riding my 26 (see profile pic) hardtail under various forks and brakes configuration, I have bought a very (very!) inexpensive DS 29er.
Not mentionning the name as this is not a hidden advertisement…
But the « french made big retailer » bike reg price was less than 3000can$ and I got a deal on a customer return at 1800$ taxes included.
I had done my research before and compared every single component and feature…
Anyway, the bike suited my riding style and I figured the weaker components would get destroyed and replaced eventually, as my experience dictates. Alu Frame is garantied for life, wheels are more than decent… my gripe was weight as is was a tad over 33 pounds.
So I decided to dedicate a budget equalling the rebate difference to the regular retail price and got excellent tubeless tires, swapped the dropper post for a lighter rigid I had, and got a Microspline hub body to mount an XT cassette.
Bike is now under 30 still at a total cost of much less than 2800$.
How does this specific cheap bike ride? It’s brilliant. And when (if) I destroy it or any part, I can repeat and replace for peanuts.
Having nothing to prove, all I can say is: I know what I am doing on a bike. I am both experienced and in very good shape. The cheap bike takes is like a champion.
Do your homework, don’t believe the hype. Fix your own bike. Keep your money for wise upgrade.
Never judge a cyclist by the price of it’s ride, but see if the saddle is worn a bit.
What’s that cool little pack you have mounted to your frame on the GX build?
It’s a Blackburn saddle bag held on by a wolf tooth b rad bracket.
Man.. to be honest your video has the best colour grades and video quality out of all that i've seen when it comes to MTB gopro shots! Would be so appreciative if you could share your settings. Don't worry.. I'm already a subscriber. =)
Thanks for the kind words. I use a hero 7 and Karma gimbal. I set me exposure to keep the highlights from blowing out.
@@bikersedge man.. i use a hero 8 black and could not get colours as good as yours. It would be real sick if you could provide the settings (GoPro and/or post production) or do a video on it.
@@Venom1988 it helps that the colors this autumn were insanely good! I think that’s mostly what you’re seeing here. I don’t have any secret GoPro settings really. I just keep an eye on the highlights.
Did you keep the tire pressure the same on both bikes or did you increase the psi accordingly on the aluminum bike to account for the difference in weight? If not, that is likely the case as to why the aluminum felt more planted and slower on turns.
I kept tire pressure the same at 30 front and back. It could have been a factor but it’s pretty doubtful it was the only one.
Great bikes and all but those bright yellow autumn vibes though. 🤩
Really excellent comparison video!!! Thanks!!! Also, love the views in this area!! What part of the country are you in??
Hey thanks! Glad you liked it. I’m in Utah. It’s not scenic here at all….
Ah man nice. I keep seeing a lot of great riding videos from Utah!! Thanks!
Another high quality awesome video.... Keep building the channel and soon you'll have loads more subs
Thanks! Glad you liked the video!
I don't trust carbon during a crash. Carbon is vibration absorbent. a little dang in the frame can turn into a huge problem.
Previous bike was Carbon and I beat the hell out of it. Never had any issues with cracks or damage. Current bike is Aluminum and has held up great as well. None of my friends have had any issues as well but I have heard stories.
I got a used Carbon 2018 canyon spectral cf8 for an absolute bargain and I don't regret it. The previous owner had hardly ridden her and she had no marks at all on the frame. I was super lucky but there are bargains out there both AL and CF.
Nice review but its still not Apples to Apples. The build of shocks and fork make a big difference in the feel. If you get a chance to ride a Transition AL with the same build as yours, that would be a prime review.
I’m not convinced it makes that big of a difference. Yes they feel a little bit different but in the big picture it’s pretty minor.
Great review! When I heard Transition was going to offer more alloy frames, I started to second guess the carbon sentinel I have on order. I think I'll stick with it, but the alloy version sure seems like a nice bike for the price. What gear bag/pouch do you have mounted to your frame? I'd like something similar. Thanks!
Hey thanks! Its just a standard Blackburn saddle bag held on with the Wolf Tooth B-Rad bracket.
You should look into the new alloy patrol. A little more playful geo and most likely a better spec to price ratio than your carbon sentinel
@@dave7061 it’s slacker and longer than the sentinel. Don’t think it’s going to be more playful. I’d love to ride them back to back though.
Love the honesty.. keep up the great reviews!
Good comparision! What trail as that btw?
Thanks! I rode a handful of trails in Park City.
Here's an idea for another alloy vs carbon comparison. Take the bikes from the all mountain showdown (Ripmo, Hightower, Sentinel) and compare their alloy versions to each other, obviously not the Yeti as they don't make alloy bikes. I do suspect the Ripmo AF will win due to its suspension, but would be interesting to see how the alloy versions of the Hightower and Sentinel compare.
We’ve almost done that already. We made a $3k bike showdown featuring the Hightower, Ripmo AF, Giant Reign and Orbea Occam. Go check that series out.
Great video (content, filming, editing). Out of curiosity, what trail are you riding?
Hey thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it. This one is on Silver Queen at PCMR.
@@bikersedge Park City area looks so fun and beautiful! . . . I need to stop on the way from Hood River to Moab next time.
nice honest review for people considering, good attitude nice one!
Hey thanks for the kind words!
After owning a couple of bikes, my prio is geo, suspension, brakes, tires, wheels, drive train, frame material. Ibis did it right with the Ripmo AF, same geo and suspension on entry upto pro.
I agree. I think ibis did an awesome job with the Ripmo AF.
You have me curious about the Sentinel. I’d get the Alum NX and upgrade a few things or just buy the Alum GX build.
But then that got me thinking about how this bike compares to a Santa Cruz Bronson.
That’s a comparison no one is doing. These are considered All Mountain.
The two bikes that are available around me. Where I live, my trails seem to have 500-1000ft climbs from the parking lot… so I need something I can pedal all day.
No demos available so it makes it a really hard decision
Haven’t ridden the Bronson. Wouldn’t be able to say.
I bought a bike with NX components and had to replace the shifter within three months and the rear brake within the first year. I’d rather spend more money on quality parts and not have the bike fail while on the trail which is very maddening. That was the last time doing that!
Weird...I have had NX shifter and cassette for 2 years with zero problems and I ride alot.Brakes are definetly something you don't want to go cheap on.
Going on two years with my nx build and it is the opposite. Everything held up well.
I borrowed the carbon equivalent of my bike (Rocky Mountain Element Carbon 70) while visiting my sister. Unfortunately, nobody had a shock pump so it was sitting a little low and I didn't dare hit anything too hard but I still noticed one big difference. The ultra light carbon bike responded shockingly fast to any shift in body weight. "Lively and nimble" describes it really well. There were moments where it felt too lively, or rather, I was throwing my weight harder than I needed to and the bike over-responded. The weight made no difference on the climb. It wouldn't say it was worth it for me. At 210 lbs, any bike frame responds when I throw my weight around (this is also why a brake upgrade was the single biggest performance boost for me) but, for a lighter rider, I could see how it would make a difference.
To me a carbon bike has a more alive feel and when I ride alloy it is more muted. Performance wise I don't find it makes a big difference.
great review - please can you answer me this question as its a big important one to me! - NOISE, is the alloy one lots noisier than the carbon one? rattle more etc?
I wasn’t paying a ton of attention to that but neither bike jumped out to me as noisy. I think it’s going to vary from bike to bike/brand to brand.
@@bikersedge thanks man, its just in your sentinel carbon review video a while back you said it was absolutly silent and can only hear the tyres on the ground etc, im hoping the alloy is very similar as i have OCD about noisy rattling bikes
I think you are feeling the differences in the suspension and not the frame material. Better suspension is going to give you the poppy feeling that you are talking about.
First off great video! The thing here for me is components aren’t the same definitely suspension does change a lot of the feel of the bike for the same suspension layout aswell as brakes! So it would have been even better if you compared just frame materials all other things being the same for a more accurate conclusion
This video was more about a high end carbon build vs an entry level alloy build. Not strictly frame material.
When it comes down to it, individual suspension components don’t make a huge difference to the feel of a bike. Swapping from the Float X to the Super deluxe (both have the same intended application) doesn’t make the bike feel too different.
@@bikersedge using a grip dampened fork vs a gri2 one does make a difference tho 🤔 and also brakes too because they allow you to go faster knowing you’ll have the power to stop the bike for a turn. I guess what in trying to say is that to compare the worthiness of spending more on a carbon frame more precisely you’d have to eliminate as many other variables on the testing as possible, because with your comparison you’re showing a bike with better components than the other one so it’s harder to not have a bit of bias towards the carbon due to the rest of the components on the bike vs the Alu one. Just a thought tho, the conclusion you gave is still what I would tell to any of my friends planning on buying a similar bike offered on alu or carbon builds 👌🏽
@@rodrigopages1054 again. This video was about a high end build vs an entry level build.
And yes components make a difference but they’re minor in comparison to differences in geometry and suspension kinematics.
the subject is very relevant and it makes clear that carbon is NOT worth the extra money. But what about those brands that make a certain model in carbon only (canyon strive for instance)?
I know I’m not giving up my carbon frame but I don’t think it matters as much as some folks think.
@@bikersedge I am not against carbon frames. But they makes an expensive sport which is MTB even more expensive.
The difference in shock and fork could be 90% of the ride difference in the two bikes. Slower rebound less lively but feels more grounded. Faster rebound more pop, but not as grounded on the chatter.
I set both bikes up with that in mind. I got them as close as I could to each other. I don’t think it came down to suspension components or setup.
@@bikersedge I think M Goo is right in saying that without identical shocks and identical set up there can be quite a bit of variance here, certainly enough to change the feel of the suspension.
I’d like to see this test done with 2 bikes that are a lot more close in spec package. Like the Altitude coil C70/A70 2023.
So to compare the carbon/aluminum frame more then components.
Agreed. This kind of evolved into "high end vs entry level" as I got into the filming.
beautiful scenery
I bought a 2022 Sentinel aluminum bike two years ago, but with the higher end GX components - that year, prices were high and it cost me around $5200, about $1500 cheaper than its carbon equivalent. The bike continues to impress me after two years of use. I don't think saving roughly 1.5 lbs. would have justified an extra 1500 bucks.
Yeah the weight ravings isn’t worth it in my mind. It’s the difference in performance I’m after.
Did you match tire pressure and susp set up?
Tire pressure yes. For suspension setup I tried to get them to feel as similar as possible. It’s not identical because the suspension components were different.
I'm crazy happy with my aluminum 2019 Sentinel and GX build... carbon was out of my price point, but the real reason I chose AL is I'm a big guy, so I've always been scared my fat ass will break a carbon frame. Great review, loved the recent all mtn showdown as well, made me feel great about the decision to go with Transition.
If you break a carbon bike it can slash you to bits . Broken catbon is sharp as a knife .
@ patriot And broken aluminum isn’t sharp?
Hulk hogan couldn't break a carbon frame!!! Watch Santa cruz carbon frame durability test!!!
@@m00nchildblues in my experience it takes a decent tumble to break a carbon frame. Unfortunately I’ve done it three times. That said I’ve seen plenty of alloy frames break under similar conditions.
YIPES!!!!!!
Alloy mondraker superfoxy for me and it’s amazing
Paul,.....Can you compare your Mondraker to any other similar bikes? How does it Climb? I am considering getting a Foxy alloy, but there are very few reviews for these bikes.
Can you guys do a review on the alloy spire?
As soon as we can get a spire we will review it. Carbon or alloy.
@@bikersedge Ok cool thanks guys!
I'd be interested to know what the lap times were if you had a stopwatch going.
Alloy for me as I'm keeping the bike longer. Had a Santa Cruz carbon and I had to change it for warranty 2 times. Unless you keep on changing your bike then go for carbon.
Where was this video filmed? Beautiful scenery!!!
Park City, UT. It definitely doesn’t suck.
Which trail is this? I wish you guys mentioned some of them (when they aren’t sensitive trails)
Silver Queen in park city.
Im usually happy to answer trails in the comments. Figure it’s better than than blasted in the video somewhere.
Iv had a lot bikes over the years but only 2 carbon. Both carbon bikes felt harsher and more chattery. That’s why I ordered an alloy spire. Heavy. Yes. Lol. I just like the way alloy soaks up the chunkier terrain.
I’m with you on that. Alloy seems to bend and flex better. Carbon is nice for a quick and lively feeling bike though.
Beautiful trail! Where is this trail at?
Park City
Interesting point about wrestling the aluminum bike on the descent. Descending is the whole reason we climb, no? $2K is a lot - if you get a new bike every 2-3 years. If you prorate that over 4-5-6 years, it's not a lot more to get the better bike and kit.
Thats one way to look at it. I like to get new bikes more frequently than that though.
7:40 Do you think what you were feeling on the downhill Flow trail might've been more the heavier wheels and not as much the aluminum frame?
They have the same rims and very similar hubs. I’d bet the weights are nearly identical.
I think some of it was the overall bike weight combined with the frame material.
@@bikersedge OK, I presumed the Aluminum bike was running cheaper (heavier) rims and thought perhaps rotational weight and the gyroscopic mass-loading effect might've been at play, but not if they weigh the same.
Like you iterated, it's quite odd it showed up more on downhill flow than uphill climbing, which is dubious but refreshing for all those who love climbing but can't afford a carbon frame.
Are we all going to just ignore how spectacular the location is? WOW!
Utah sucks. Don’t come here.
You're riding amazing hard packed terrain in autumn (fall). I'm riding in 3 inches of mud in southern England 🙈
What is autumn?
@@bikersedge careful, or you’ll fall over it
Depends on the warranty
I'm just saying, this was the smoothest downhill video I've ever seen. If it's the bikes that smoothed it out, i want one lol
Definitely the bike….. or the camera gimbal. Haha.
@@bikersedge you're so humble. You know that is just your skill set.... Smooth and balanced. All soul and always in control lol
That just because you don’t see the parts when I run into trees and stuff.
Gorgeous Aspen trees !!
We had an amazing autumn this year.
Carbon is light but in a fast racing world, carbon is stiff and rarely has flex in fast corners,etc and is super responsive. Now throw in some carbon wheels on a carbon frame, you now have a bike that responds in fast corners at will!
Carb wheels are something you will notice a lot. Adds so much to the ride. I didn’t believe the hype but after three years on carbon wheels with torch hubs I’ll never go back
Carbon wheels make a HUGE difference
One aspect I have never seen addressed is the long term reliability of aluminum vs carbon fiber.
Long term reliability is tough to compare in real world testing. You just can’t replicate the same conditions day after day on both bikes really. Either way I’ve broken about equal amounts of carbon and alloy frames/wheels. I’ve seen alloy dent and crack with what seemed like a minor crash while carbon stayed intact after a massive one and vice versa.
What trail was this filmed on? location? look like a ton of fun
Park City!
@@bikersedge Which trail? I can see that you end up at the bottom of PCMR.
@@TheOkayjosh silver queen and Red Bull
My wife is a health nut. She doesn’t understand the “burrito currency”. Ride to earn your right to eat. Thanks for the information, my carbon sentinel is on order.
How else could I justify eating 17 burritos a week?
How much does each bike weigh?
Thanks for your videos!
~32 for the GX and ~36 for the NX
@@bikersedge my guess is the frame weight would be 1.5 lbs or so?
Just found it. For a medium there’s 1.9lbs between them. So equal build would be 32 carbon and 34 alloy 👍
@@tinshield man these bikes these days are porky, even in carbon.
That's heavy
I get way too many rock strikes by some big old beasty boy rocks to consider carbon seriously as a daily driver. My alloy bikes look like the lunar surface after a year or so I'm not sure I'd fully trust any carbon frame. Plus some horror stories from the early days of "Plastic Enduros".
Don't care about a small amount of weight (you get used to it if the geo's good anyway and it makes for nice stable jumps) I just want a tank that can take a fair few knocks and not need x-raying.
Wow…that is an AMAZING trail 🫡
Aluminum all day with up to date geometry and with good components. (Gx build or slx/xt build) would be great enough. Just my thoughts! 😀
Not a bad thought.
@@bikersedge It is nice to have the latest and greatest parts on your bike but for me it would be better of spending the money on bike skills clinic to improve your skill. 😊
Agreed. Getting better at bikes will make a bigger difference than that fancy electronic derailleur or carbon crank.
@@bikersedge Totally agree! 😀 Continue maling great content!
This is exactly what I’m looking to do. Frame up alloy build with good components to keep the cost less than carbon versions. BE - awesome comparison and thanks for this timely video on new Transition models!
Would be interesting to see the same components on the different frames to see how much of a difference just the frame material itself makes.
If I can find bikes to do it with I will.
@@bikersedge doesn't the sentinal come in both gx alloy and gx carbon? Same exact build.
@@jorcor78 yes it does. Unfortunately we don’t have a GX alloy available to us.
For me the key was the weight, I have a 33 pounds aluminum Orbea Occam (which I love) then I bought a RM Element C30 (4 pounds less) and that helped me a lot specially climbing !!
tests have shown a heavier bike is a matter of seconds slower. it's in your head.
@@bimfred I will respectfully disagree, can’t be the same to push uphill 29 pounds instead of 33.
@@rlopez9044 it’s not the same but it is only very marginally slower. Several bike mags and channels have tested the theory with timed ascents. DH vs Trail casings will affect your speed winding up a fire road much more than whether you have a heavier frame. I’m just relaying their findings.
Carbon or alloy? Which one are you riding?
Carbon gx v2.
Alloy 2022 Sentinel here !
From your review, I believe that if you don’t get to ride the carbon and aluminium version back-to-back and only had the lower end one, you wouldn’t know any better and would have gotten used to the downsides pretty quickly!
I’d say that’s a fair point.
Great video subject. I went Ripmo AF Deore. I'm fine with it. Let's take a moment to appreciate the backdrop though. Utah in the fall. Gorgeous.
We had the best fall I can remember!
Yea I bought a Af too loved it so much I bought the next years Carbon. And yea I love it but I feel like I blew the extra cash I can’t tell the difference in the ride 🤷🏽♂️
Exactly!
I like hardtails. In general, the aluminum ones are heavier and more uncomfortable, they don't absorb vibrations and when you go down you're in pieces! 😂to get destroyed in the same way? you have to stretch the turn of 40%. I'm talking about pedaling for 35/45 km.
what if you had taken every component except the the hadset off the carbon and put it on the alloy bike. would those wheels and brakes have been the golden ticket?
Brakes yes. Not sure about wheels. They’re pretty much the same between the two.
When you said the breaks do not "feel as good" what did you mean by that?
Less positive feel at the lever. A little more vague bite point. A little squishy feel at the lever.
@@bikersedge got it thank you