It’s not you - movies are getting darker.
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- čas přidán 8. 11. 2022
- Blame technology for how often you can’t see anything in your favorite shows.
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There’s a trend in movies and TV that you’ve probably noticed: everything has gotten extremely dark, and for some audience members, too dark to even see.
It comes down to both aesthetics and technology. The first one’s pretty simple: as popular content leans grittier and darker in tone (i.e. The Batman, Stranger Things, Game of Thrones etc) the visuals tend to reflect that.
But productions have also moved from shooting on film to shooting with digital cameras - and the way scenes get lit has changed dramatically. Shooting on film meant that you couldn’t see the final product until everything was developed. Under those limitations, it made more sense to flood dark scenes with light to ensure the footage would be usable. With digital cameras and digital monitors, it’s easy to see what the final product will look like - and that can embolden a cinematographer to film scenes darker and darker.
But how dark is too dark? And how do filmmakers ensure that their vision gets accurately represented on the screen you’re watching it on? Check out this Vox video to find out.
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Brett told me that cinematographers typically work with colorists to create a basic “look” for the film, which gets used on onset monitors, and for when directors are reviewing dailies.
When shooting darker scenes, instead of closing down the aperture or giving a scene less light, Brett will usually ask the colorist to make a darker version of that look. This way he can keep the information of a brightly lit scene, while still knowing what it would look like a little darker.
It’s one way shooting digitally is much more flexible than shooting on film. See more of Brett’s work on Instagram @dpbrett! Thanks for watching. -Ed
Was it just me or was The Game Of Thrones season finale too dark? Where being in a blacked out room, you still couldn’t see what was on screen.
Yo Vox, your content is rad
Digital Cameras used play a big roles also imo, Arri released his new 35 which add more stops and preserve details in highlights/shadows like nothing have been done before thus giving cinematographer/colorists the best of what's available in the shots to begin with..
Can you send a team of colorists to our homes with multiple designed "looks" installed on our viewing devices so we too can see the scenes? Thanks.
-smh
Studios also edit on OLED reference monitors which cost like 10k for a 20 inch screen. They are vastly better than most consumer tech.
Can we now talk about how dialogue in movies is ridiculously too soft compared to the other sound effects in said movie?
Because whispering is cool now apparently
Because everyone knows that explosions and gunshots are famously quiet IRL, it's just filmmakers who invented the idea that they're loud.
Yeah talking in movies is way 2 quite. Kinda annoying i always got to use a equalizer.
They are editing these movies in a soundproof dark rooms, best sound systems and top notch calibrated displays. But they forget the vast majority of people are not gonna come close to watching movies with that kinda setup. They should atleast review it in "average conditions" to see if it holds up.
That's what in my house subtitles stay on
Regardless of the language
To sum it up: for all their powers of imagination, filmmakers can’t envision me watching their movie in my living room. On a TV.
I mean yes, it is about that. But I would also argue that dimly lit scenes are pretty forgettable, frustrating to watch, and confusing at times. I would argue that improving the lighting will help us plebs watching on a TV instead of the cinema or a private theater. But it would also make the scene more enjoyable for cinephiles as well. Turns out you can have a balance and satisfy both parties. But hey, I guess we've got to go through this phase before people will realize you can go dark, but you still have to light your scenes.
Or in the case of Game of Thrones, that is, a freaking TV SHOW...
The main issue seems to be they are designing the movie for the best case scenario instead of the worst case scenario with no way for people to adjust it to what they have. I'm pretty sure it would be possible to add settings to a streaming service, DVD, or DVD player to adjust the brightness of the source video on the fly. Or they could pre-render a different brightness and allow you to switch to it.
There are thousands of tv they would have to account for every single one, plus your own personal environment which will affect your screen depending on how much light is in it.
These dark movies look amazing on an OLED tbh.
I don't mind darkness when it's used as a tool to highlight something else. But if everything is dark, what's the vision?
exactly
guess they're going for vibe lol
DUNE I'm looking at you. I have no idea what happened in that movie because it was too dark to see anything.
The VISION is to save MONEY on SETS and COSTUMES :P
Maybe the directors are really into Podcasts. Sometimes those dark movies feel like a podcast tho
This is not a technological problem. Filmmakers just need to turn down the ego and turn up the exposure.
Maybe don't watch Batman on a Nintendo DS at noon?
@@lukilsn are you expecting us to rent a cinema house whenever we want to watch it?
@@keeneyong6580 i don't know turn up the brightness and saturation? It's what the filmmakers want you to see . if you don't like it, then leave it. Stop bragging about it like if you are Roger Deakins ..
Best comment yet.
@@keeneyong6580 There are a lot of options between a DS in sunlight and a cinema :)
“What you’re watching is dark.. but it’s exactly what the filmmaker wanted you to see” sounds like a funny conclusion less than a minute after explaining how they grade the colour in perfect conditions and then *expect* the effect to trickle down into devices normal people use [which clearly does not happen]
Yeah, very strange way to end this video.
Good call. It's like there isn't any solution unless the technology creates it for us. This is the dumbing down of the digital age -- it's already happened.
He has a set conclusion with a story in between
Exactly. As if they cannot have a bunch of top sold mobile phones and TVs sold in the last 5 years and check how the movie looks on them and create an average. Especially HBO, which used to be "home box office". Did they expect people to view GOT in theaters?
It's also an especially weird statement because I've heard of plenty of people complaining about dark, muddy visuals in movies that they saw in good quality theaters, and when that whole thing was a huge problem on Game of Thrones, A TV SHOW THAT IS EXCLUSIVELY STREAMED TO HOME TELEVISION.
This video completely avoids discussing the fact a lot of visual artists use darkness to hide imperfections in their work for movies. "We don't have enough time to make this look right!" "No problem, just increase the intensity of the shadow on that spot."
based pfp
You just put the whole noir genre on blast
@@CF-qb1zh no, modern directors put it on blast by hiding their incompetence with "noir" tag.
THIS.
100%
The darkness hasn't really bothered me yet. The thing that really annoys me is how loud the sound effects are compared to the dialogue. I have to boost the volume to hear what people say but then I get deafened by how loud the sound effects are. I end up just having to watch with sub titles on to hear anything
Yes!!!!!
Exactly and that's really annoying
And then occasionally the subtitles come either too early or late in which case you can only admit defeat
yeah, I have problems with my ears now and I can no longer go to the movies for the cinema we have left loves to turn the sound way up. And I have to sit at home with a remote in my hand the entire movie for the sound effects are to loud and the voices to low. Hollywood filmmaking is such a joke now, and I no casual watcher, I have a minor in film and film has always been a hobby since I was a kid, learning everything about the industry.
True! This also bugs me when watching TV shows or listening to the radio late at night. Adverts have boosted audio levels which means a dive for the remote control.
If constant grim-dark is exactly what the filmmakers wanted me to see, then it's the filmmakers that have a problem.
"they cant tell how you will see it because everyones screen is different" followed by "if its dark, thats what they wanted you to see" pick a lane vox you dafties
Eh, I like it.
And let's not forget said filmakers' brainless fans going "but grim dark is so realistic!" ...
@@misamisaa4547 exactly if I had to watch something realistic I would simply go on the street at 12, Wouldn’t spend money on chips and popcorn and tickets
It's because the world is getting darker. Put your faith in JOHN 3:16 and live in the light.
As someone with astigmatism, I hate this trend. It requires me to squint even with my glasses on.
Same. I also think it’s a shame that films are losing colour in general, I’m rather fond of older films and how colourful they are
Gurlll you need to squint if its too bright 🔆 🤩🤧
You probably need better quality optics in your glasses or contact lenses (possibly hard lenses) if you're having this problem. -Eye doctor
John 3:16-21
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Mark 1.15
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
The movies are getting more evil repent and follow him today
@@christopher9727 lol ok dude. Enjoy your fearful life.
Such a weird pivot to being a darkness apologist at the end of this video? Saying "this is what the filmmakers intended" doesnt really follow if the people watching at home aren't going to watch in a dark room on a perfect screen and are instead on their phone or god forbid have the lights turned on. And things like GoT were never released in theatres so optimising for that makes no sense!
Pfft....what!!! You don't have your own private movie theatre with staff waiting on your whim?! How pedestrian....
Darkness apologist is hilarious 😂
I just crank up the brightness on my TV. Makes for a worse image overall, especially when there's a lot of range, but I can actually see something in these scenes where the filmmaker wanted me to see basically nothing.
Darkness is awesome. Just turn off the lights at home, or in the room you’re in. It’s not that difficult, anyone can do it.
Even after all these darkness issues. directors / cinamatographers still have the gall to critisize people for using their TV's Dynamic setting.
lord of the rings has a lot of scenes set at night or underground or in places literally described as "where the shadows lie" and yet with good color grading and lighting the scenes are obviously set in dark places but still perfectly visible. When asked where all the light comes from in those scenes the cinematographer said "the same place the music comes from" and i REALLY wish more filmmakers took that sentiment to heart
Yup, Terminator 2 did even simpler and just added a blue filter on the night scenes. They were shot during the day. It's one of the best looking movies of all time with effects and cinematography aging well to this day, while every other movie from 2010s is unwatchable because everything is so dark.
You know in LOTR, Aragorn is suppose to be the Anti Christ, and Gandolf is the Pope. Their NWO is getting closer.
I love how they say it's impossible to know what the movie looks like on your screen, and then right after they say that movies are dark because it's exactly what the filmmaker wants us to see.
This made me genuinely mad glad to see an upvoted comment mentioning it
You missed the part of it's exactly what the filmmakers want you to see on a proper screen
@@JASONXMARIELA lol
Are they providing us with said screen?
If they really wanted to know what the viewers would see, they could maybe get a sample of the different kinds of screens we all have and use those in editing. If everything is digital, why not make a copy for the theaters and then make a copy designed for smaller screens? Let me guess, money.
this video explained this situation rather badly
So the fault still lies with the filmmakers. ‘Nuff said.
It’s like yeah filmmakers have more powerful sensors than ever before yet they are making shows and movies that people on film were able to avoid with ease. Literally no excuse
@@pnash1000 They literally explained why ... they're making movies on the best displays they have and then tweaking them for the cinema where the big money is.
Want perfect movie/show experience ? Watch them in a dark room on a high end TV. You can buy 55" OLED for like $1500 now ...
Can't even afford that ? Then sry, but you're second class citiziens as far as the movie/show makers are concerned and you don't matter much and I don't expect this to ever change except when TV tech becomes so advanced and cheap that everybody pretty much can have the best experience.
@@NamelessONEMail are you a second class citizen if your computer hardware can't run the latest games? are video game makers mistreating all of you by making game requirements higher and higher for the best image viewing experience?
they're just thinking of the future because, yeah, what is "unaffordable" will indeed become common place. but imagine if a video game or movie looks worse and worse on newer hardware. and it gets to the point where people are hunting for old TVs or old computers just to be able to properly watch an older film or play a vintage game. so now, they can only be enjoyed by the few and the wealthy because there are only so many antique TVs left in the world and this is the dystopian future you were trying to avoid in the first place. congrats you played yourself?
I use an MVA screen and very rarely had a problem with dark scenes, they're not even that expensive compared to TN and IPS (same or slightly higher price than TN, depending on the model).
@@j4log719 Games and movies are different topics. They target different markets.
Games usually try to target the videst market possible since it requires you to buy special hardware yourself if you want to play them so by making the hardware requirements as low as possible while also still trying to deliver good graphics they ensure they get to sell the game to the largest number of people.
Movies are different. They target people who go to the cinema. Cinemas usually offer very high quality so the movies are mastered for that perfect enviroment.
Anyone else is a second class citizens as far as the movie makers are concerned.
Now, TV shows, this is indeed the one market where they should tailor the experience for a wider market since what quality TV people have varies wildly and home streaming is the only market for shows. Here i'm guesing the directors and editors are simply stuck in the movie making mentality and are too stubborn to do it differently ?
Its sort of a cop out to say: Well people are watching on different screens so of course we can't make it good on all of them! This is also true of music, but in music production the entire field of mastering is devoted to making it sound good no matter what it is played on. Frequently mastering engineers will play a piece through the best monitors, tiny headphones and shaky car stereos to ensure that it sounds good in every use case. So I don't buy that film editors can't do the same, especially with all the money going into that industry.
That was my thought too. If they don't do that already, they should take a note from Mastering engineers ;)
Wrong... They make it sound good in what's most popular and there is nothing wrong with film going in a different direction. I rather see art than copy and paste music
Film editor here; that's not our job ;) Better to say "the filmmakers," because who has final say in the color is a toss up between the cinematographer, the director, and the producers, although hopefully they'd be collaborating on it. But it's definitely not the editors, lol
and i make websites that can work on decades old computers! it should just be common sense
1. Transition from film to digital
2. More control in post
3. Various viewing experiences
The video hints that this is the filmmaker's intent, but doesn’t really explain why. When I went to film school we were taught that there had to be at least something bright in a frame for reference, no matter how small. Otherwise, the shot will be perceived as unintentionally too dark. After watching Dune in the theater I understand why. Hope it's a temporary trend.
Hope is a temporary trend too!!
@@gemstonesparkle7915 despair is forever.
Well I'm real life a dark room is hard to see in and they are replicating that. All movies today are trying to make things as realistic as possible and they are moving in that direction faster than the audience can comprehend it
@@JASONXMARIELA Well, in real life we live in 3D space, don't we? I see your point and you might be right. It just might be something we will get used to. It will add realism and improves the overall experience.
However, we've had hundreds if not thousands of years to figure out how to best represent the real world on a 2-dimensional rectangle (including contrast and texture). So I am not sure how much innovation there can be.
@@dimaua1830 yes 1. Everyone should get use to it and 2 everyone should be educated and start moving to newer TV that are capable of displaying these movies properly. I've been using a high an plasma for 11 years and moved to a 4k protector in the last 2 years. I haven't had an issue with dark scenes but it's because I've always had the right gear kinda thing. And no that doesn't mean everyone needs the latest and greatest always because like I said my plasma tv I bought 11 years ago was a one time purchase and when I finally decided to go 4k I got a proper 4k projector and can do great low light scenes and HDR. The selling point for TV got the longest time has been contrast/ low light scenes.
I’m glad I’m not the only one here who’s mad about the way this vid ends, because it almost kinda felt like we were told “get over it”
Which is pretty much the same way they end the video about why film and tv dialogue is becoming mumbly to the point of inaudibility
The trouble with darkness in digital is that dark spots get compressed way more than light spots, so while it may look good uncompressed at the cinema, if you're watching it at home it's going to look blocky in those dark areas because no one wants to host massive files on their streaming services.
Yes, banding is a serious issue with streaming and one reason I still buy 4k Blu-rays.
Yes, this has been annoying me when streaming on a new oled tv I recently bought.
I'd hope shows like Game of Thrones and Stranger things would factor this in if they are designed to be streamed. I'd understand if big movies that come out first in theaters had this issue.
That actually makes sense. I didn’t realize they did this
*I've noticed this too - I feel like the directors think the darker, the more dramatic they are going to come off as*
True. Sometimes it works but other times it’s a bit overdone
it's just hiding of backstage in the dark. Nothing more.
And the more people will take it seriously I guess
Remember back when you was a Goblin, wasn't it?
Something I really hate about modern dim lighting and “intangible sludge” washed out color grading is that it is a ripe breeding ground for video compression artifacts. I didn’t mind the darkness itself in HotD, but I was bothered by all the banding and blockiness that appeared in the blacks and greys.
Filmmakers would suggest you buy a 4k HDR 10bit display. Don't complain while watching it on cheap 8bit TV. Also the video signal needs to be higher bit rate.
@@saiv46 are pirated movies color corrected to be brighter than their legitimate counterparts? I mean, that's impressive for them to go the extra mile. But also, streaming video is generally going to lose to a high def video file.
That's because of what you're watching the videos in. The video itself doesn't have the issue
@@MrMiyagi005 I watched it on a 4K HDR OLED display set to filmmaker mode. Speedtest clocked my download speed at over 380Mbps.
In addition to the regular artifacts I mentioned for some reason the HBO Max stream showed these weird white and rainbow colored grids and dots on blacks that appeared and disappeared sporadically. So I resorted to torrenting a show on a service I already paid for. The highest quality 2160p torrents did not feature the weird white and rainbow colored grids and dots. But they still featured the banding and blockiness in dim lighting that plagued the stream.
@@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive You may have a 380Mbps internet connection, doesn't mean the stream is encoded anywhere near that.
This whole episode basically just boils down to that episode where Spongebob said "This isn't darkness, this is advanced darkness"
I don’t care if it’s artistic vision, movies still need to be accessible. Losing some quality for better setups is well worth it if everyone can actually enjoy the show on their TVs, laptops, phones, whatever
I don't see an easy fix to this. It's similar to the problem Disney+ has with their audio. It's too high quality because it's made for theatres, and when you play a marvel movie on a laptop, you get very Stark contrasts between quiet and loud scenes.
I do care about artistic vision as I want something different and darker doesn't mean less quality, it just means darker. If you want to watch movies on your phone there are plenty of options for you.
@@TheDogGoesWoof69 just checking my sarcasm detecter is working here bcos I've literally seen statements like this said in 100% seriousness, so you joking?
Until I watch it on my 4K screen and looks like it was made for a 480i TV.
I think I prefer quality.
@@Willow4526 movies are meant to be watched in the theaters. Studios need to do the heavy lifting if they want to cater to the home audience, not the directors.
Truth is, it’s not enjoyable to watch a show or movie when you can’t see what’s going on. Leaves a bitter after effect and less incentive to watch it at a later date. For me, it’s chalked up as poor quality. Nobody should have to skip an episode, because it cannot be seen during the day, or at night. Viewers should not have to adjust their TVs. I thought they were smarter than this.
I think there's one main conclusion of this video, which did not really come out in the end:
Darkness in movies is okay if it is a stylistic choice, like in the Batman/Severance, so there's one thing to really look at.
It could also be used in a bad manner, like House of the Dragons, where everything was just too dark and a lot of detail hard to see.
The conclusion of this video is that the filmmaker shows what he wanted you to see, but it doesn't have to be the thing that you should've seen.
I was under the impression that the House of the Dragon episode was a stylistic choice too. Not one everyone picked up on, but still. Stealing a dragon and two relatives' night time tryst were aided by happening at night time. I didn't need to see every visual detail to understand the character and plot :/
The video basically said "the problem is with _you_ for not embracing the brilliant artistic choice of the director to make the movie too dark to see anything."
People need to show their displeasure by _not going to see these director's movies_ if they want to send a message... yet we live in a world where _5 Michael Bay Transformers movies made billions of dollars_ so I really don't see that happening.
And just because something is a stylistic choice doesn't make it a _good_ choice.
@@AaronLitz Just because you don't personally like it, doesn't mean it was a bad choice.
There's definitely a difference between scenes being dark and scenes being muddy. Dark scenes NEED some sort of contrast, some sort of light, otherwise everything blends together and it looks muddy. The Severance scene is dark in a good way- its intentional and the sharp white light in the middle draws your eye where they want it. In comparison to final season GoT shots, where everything was dark and gray and it just made it hard to see.
I think Harry Potter was a different cause because the way the movies got darker was symbolic. It showed the worsening of the situation and then finally climaxing at the final battle. After the battle is over we see an increase in exposure. This shows that the light and exposure was very symbolic in the story telling of Harry Potter.
*Exactly.*
The light in the scenes where Dobby dies and is buried, as well as when Harry "dies" before he comes back, had a different kind of lighting and exposure because of what they symbolised.
Even in the darkest scenes in the HP movies, I could still see what was going on.
Tim Burton's batman is a good example of a "dark" movie where you can still see things
Or the Battle of Helm's Deep in The Two Towers where they just used blue tinted light to indicate it was night and we could still see everything.
Tim Burton in general, is very "dark" film-maker, like he's the most gothic mainstream thing in media since 1990s and images are always clear enough. @@bibliophilelady6106 Terminator 2 did the same.
This explains why dark scenes are darker than in the past, but it doesn't explain why filmmakers want us to see so many dark scenes.
In audio production there is a step called "MASTERING" where they adjust loudness, compression and equalization to ensure music will translate well across any playback device - from iPhone speakers to club systems, and often compromises need to be made to ensure this. It's curious to me that cinematographers don't have to deal with this in the name of "artistic expression." 🤔
Yup. But then too many of them just ruin it all by cramming everything up at the top end to make it sound "louder," removing all the dynamic range so it can only vary between 9 to 10 instead of 1 to 10.
@@AaronLitz -14 LUFS 4 LIFE!
Loudness leaps exist in cinemas too for the same reason "people seem too like it" so directors and studios push for that style. It's positive feedback loop.
@@Spearca Don't get pedantic on my phrasing, man. This is a youtube comment, not a lecture or technical paper.
@@Spearca Three things.
1) Definition of mastering: “Mastering engineers often apply equalization and dynamic range compression in order to optimize sound translation on all playback systems“
2) I mentioned in the original comment that compromises must be made.
3) Your assumption that I want an ideal master presentation is incorrect. That is not what I said, want, or implied.
Don’t project your incorrect understanding onto my comments- and look up what a pedant is while you’re at it.
I recently saw a side by side of a frame from the original Halloween vs. One of the newest ones and it showed something really interesting. The original one (that was shot on film) had really bold blacks and really bold brights, the difference between shadows and highlights was really amazing. The newest version (shot digital) was just sorta all grayish black... idk, the original was way more effective because the new one is just all dark without any contrast really. Maybe not knowing that you can edit the shading in post makes the filmmakers more careful with their lighting and care more about the picture rather than the whole "we'll fix it in post" attitude. It just felt more dynamic
The trouble is that Digital can 100% achieve the same deep contrast as the film version. There's just more data to play with, and you have to have a bold enough vision to want to push it that far.
digital cameras can get the same contrast, but modern color grading techniques usually prefer the grayish stuff
That's the limitation on film camera afaik
And most ppl would rather have this than 1000 shades of grey
Modern digital cameras actually have α better dynamic range than film. 15 or even 16 stops when film has 12
I'm sure film makers are well aware of the editing capabilities 🤣
John S. Bartley, director of photography for the first three seasons of _The X-Files_ said the reason he shot that show so dark was because it didn't have enough budget for convincing creature effects, so instead he just made the scenes so dark that the audience would have to imagine them.
I love when people are just honest. It makes everything so much easier.
"EvErY ThING wAs fIlMEd pRaCtIcAlLy nO CoMpUtERs"
Even some of the best OLED tv's still have issues near black or coming out of black. Also, most people watch on streaming which is heavily compressed compared to watching a 4K bluray. On top of this, watching extremely dark scenes on even on the best OLED tv you can buy still requires you to be in a pitch black room which I think is unreasonable to expect for home viewing, especially if it's a TV show (i.e. Game of Thrones). Filmmakers can have all the "artistic intent" they want, but if the don't think of their audience then they are really only making it for themselves and the select few who can enjoy it how they "intended".
OLED's have their own problems in dark sceneswhen ABL (Automatic Brightness Limiter) kicks in.
@@martini8822 I’ve only had that in very bright scenes, not very dark ones. Why would ABL need to kick in if you’re nowhere near the max brightness?
The problem with that house of the dragon episode is that they shot it at daylight (see behind the scenes footage and shadows) but they manually edited it to look dark, that’s part of the reason why it was so particularly bad
That’s not a problem if you know what you’re doing; filmmakers have been shooting day for night for decades.
It wasn’t bad to me
That is not a problem is called "Day for night" and is what filmmaker have been doing for decades to shoot scenes that take place at night.
Most night scenes are shot during the day
@@angelsunemtoledocabllero5801
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I finally just watched that episode of House of the Dragon lastnight and I was squinting the whole time trying to see what was going on. I get that they were trying to do a night scene but they really overdid it with the darkness.
The last episodes of S8 Game of thrones are the same, if not worse.
to be fair, the last season was such a dumpster fire, they would have done you a favor by making all the episodes too dark to see. but message was that this is a trend but that doesn't mean someone can't do a horrible job.
vhagar & aemond in the flight scene was hyped up to be this majestic thing but i saw nothing even with full brightness :/
rhaenyra & daemon’s talk on the beach just looked like two dark blobs. that scene was only saved by their dialogue
That was the one case where it didnt really bother me because the visuals werent as important as, say, the Long Night.
Harry Potter and Game of Thrones really shook me. I had good expensive TVs at the time and it was still almost unwatchable
I think the real problem is the lack of contrast on the frame. Just from the examples shown on this video you can see that a good use of dark directs the view to a particular point and creates a sense of detail. The bad examples are simply bland and monotonous, your eye doesn't know where to focus.
Also, a lot of movies/shows use dark scenes to hide bad visual effects.
It’s one thing if you can’t see some scenes, it’s another if you can’t see most scenes lol you are watching a movie/show on purpose for the visual elements and not being able to see them defeats the purpose
One thing that is left out of this conversation is streaming quality. When The Long Night premiered for Season 8 of Game of Thrones, what could have been an impressive use of darkness, was just a bunch of various grey blobs until something that emit light came in to frame. Then everything else was still grey blobs, but the light was clear as day.
Most streaming services loose everything in the darkness because compression drops most of those details. Most video until recent times is typically bright and compression was created to work well with what exists.
The folks doing the color grading are viewing it on local source (uncompressed) and displays that 98% of viewers could only dream of using. Displays that can handle local dimming so that these shots actually are effective. I'm unable to watch the recent Dune during the middle of the day because the back half of the movie takes place in the dark and one of the most impactful scenes just reads as a loud black scene when I have the audacity to have a window open in the other room during the day.
I couldn't even see anything but a black screen in dune, and it was the middle of the night with all lights off
Yep - I still havn't managed to see that episode properly because our one provider in New Zealand doesn't show it in quality HD
what i'm hearing is filming in digital allows cinematographers to more easily make bad decisions about lighting
I think the darkness along with the shaky camera nonsense is just a way to make it cheaper to film so they can get away with more errors and not bothering to make everything look perfect. I watched World War Z recently and it was shaky camera all the way through. The zombies were basically just a blur at all times. I know, that is supposed to make them feel more threatening and menacing, but when I can't tell was is going on 75% of the time that just makes me annoyed and seriously takes away from the immersion of what I am watching.
Shakycam was never really implemented properly. It was originally designed to create the staccato effect of chaos in a real-life situation (SAVING PRIVATE RYAN) but it was still done with an eye for how cinematography works. Everybody else used it to inject tension and action into otherwise tepid scenes. You were lucky if they bothered to use the 45-degree shutter at all even. Same old problem: you borrow the technology with no idea how to use it.
No.
Ive watched world war z and always knew what was going on. I dont specifically remember the shaky cam or rather i dont remember it detracting from the movie so it felt natural enough to me at the time. Also to me the zombies in world war z arent really menacing and there isnt much gore. Its more of an action movie than a horror movie. I think a horror would focus more on the grotesque aspects of the zombie ,people being ripped apart, and have more suspense audio. Making them fast and blurred makes it less like this and more like a natural disaster. The zombies arent individuals. They are more like an avalanche or landslide and thats what i like about that movie.
Consistently, limitations breed creativity. I'll be honest, bigger fan of older shots because of this. They're more unique and literally stand out (for those of us who are hard of sight).
You speak the truth. I work in a creative industry (laser show industry) which is based on layers of limitations. The projectors are a physical medium as opposed to being digital (like video), and the software is very limiting as well. These factors have forced me to come up with creative solutions in order to produce a quality product.
“It’s exactly what the film maker wanted you to see” - nope
I haven't had a really bad experience with darkness in cinema, but plenty at home even on decent displays.
The problem is that the version that moviemakers produce isn't the one we get to see. Streaming services reencode the video to make it smaller, which can alter dynamic range and lead of nasty compression artifacts, particularly in dark areas.
I wonder if HDR could help solve the problem of bad displays. HDR metadata contains information about the intended dynamic range so TVs could apply tone mapping that suits the capabilities of their displays, e.g. by boosting shadows. This of course decrease dynamic range, but better a washed out image than a black image.
Matrix rain scene is nightmare for compression algorithm
good point. it's all about that bitrate and there was talk about how av1 encoding will save us all?
I only watch some cartoons on streaming and everything else with files, might explain why I don't have that problem often, coupled with my MVA screen.
HDR can help by directing the encoder to apply the bits more intelligently (whereas in SDR the encoder says dark = few bits), but only if also given enough bit rate. Most streaming services care more about their hosting fees than about quality of product; the same reason why cable TV crams in dozens of 5Mbps streams instead of a handful of 20-30Mbps streams.
I really was thinking this when I was watching Netflix, why are most shows too dark that you have to turn the brightness all the way up
my brightness is always turned all the way up for movies and it's still no enough for some
The darkness doesn’t bother me as much as the noise does! It’s really frustrating to have to turn the volume up extremely high just to hear a convo two characters are having compared to when an action scene comes on it basically blows me out of the room. I see it a lot in documentaries too music is too loud usually in background.
I turn on CC for this reason.
They can also light it properly and grade it darker.
All the films/shows referenced in this video are effects-heavy. I think it's easier to hide sub-par CG work by covering everything in a blanket of darkness rather than take the time and money to get things looking right. The non effects shots will get dimmer as well so they don't look out of place. It's less a creative decision, more a financial one.
this is where they can learn from animation, in animation they used colours to depict dark scenes, like when you see it, you know it supposed to be dark, but it's still visible, you can't make everything in the scene dark, give the viewers something to look at
One episode of a 2-D animated show that I've seen includes a scene where it's so dark that none of the characters can see but they wanted the audience to at least know some of what was going on. So the scene was all black except the outlines of the characters, which were drawn in a light gray. Which is obviously not what the characters were seeing, but it let viewers know where they were and what they were doing. I thought it was a great solution.
The Batman is the perfect example of how to use darkness properly, as a thematic & visual story telling element. Loved every second of it in both theatre & Laptop✨
Which one.The newest with the drug addicted vampire? ;) :D
It was still dark anyway
@@mukulsharma1666 ya but it felt very controlled, even someone who doesn't nerd out about the artistry of filmmaking can notice that it's one of the most visually coherent dark movies. The directors have great lighting in their films in general which sets very specific tones.
1989 film is good, everything else are just garbage knockoffs.
@@tubester358 nope, its too dark and i watch it at movie theater. And till now i still joke about batman being dark but we are not talking about story
Streaming services could actually easily fix this by hosting a set of different lighting settings.
You select a less dark tone mapping and HBO, Netfilx etc just stream an entirely different version of the movie that was edited so it looks better on cheaper screens.
The digital age doesn't require artistic vision that boils down to a single edit anymore. With Star Wars remastered in 4k and many directors cuts, it's the next logical step in home cinema.
Wow, GOT really didn’t learn it’s lesson from the battle of Winterfell. I could barely see anything that was happening. I know it was intentionally dark but I could hardly make out the white walkers let alone people in dark clothing. I know I wasn’t the only one.
It was like, why waste all the money on the scene when you cannot see what was happening.
I'm a general movie watcher. Don't understand cinema/movie making or neither want to understand. I just want to enjoy them and enjoy the moment. I don't have time for 'oh wait, is theres another dragon hiding under clouds? Pause it, I want to see it. Increase the brightness.'
I don’t like the darkness. I don’t go to movie theaters, so I watch in my home. I’m usually watching a movie or show in the day, or in the night with some low lights because I don’t want the room to be pitch black. Any light in the room can make it very hard to see the screen, especially if light is shining on the screen.
So you put your TV in a bad spot where the sun shines on it and you're blaming filmmakers for it? Here's an idea, why don't you buy curtains or move the TV?
@@vashsunglasses No, my family room has no sun shining directly on it. There are a lot of windows though, so also a lot of reflections. This would be an issue for many people. I understand the artsiness of extra dark scenes, but personally I don’t think much is taken away from my experience from a slightly more lit darkened scene that I can see regardless of lighting conditions.
@@vashsunglasses it's really like you didn't read their comment at all
I had the newest LG OLED TV and a completely dark room when watching the last game of thrones season but it was still way to dark.
I hate dark movies and shows, and HDR aren't helping.
Neither are oled screens or monitors
Then don't watch it.
Filmmakers need to know how much the audience hates how dark they are making things. I have a very high quality screen with the brightness turned way up and I still can hardly see anything sometimes.
i noticed in Wednesday the series that they did really good dark scenes! they were clearly at night but you could still see things
Almost everything Tim Burton makes is "dark" and it's always clear and has contrast.
I wonder...do directors REALLY think about the final viewing experience? It's clear that true cinema advocates such as Christopher Nolan have this in mind from Inception to final delivery. Others...I'm not so sure. Most are doing it just to be trendy, I think.
Yeah, Chris Nolan has disappeared up his own backside recently, unfortunately. Tenet was a bad movie made 10x worse because of his obsession with making dialogue inaudible.
@Neil Deep @Zveebo Both of you are correct. Tenet took it to the other extreme with hard to hear audio. But the point I made was he's totally aware of WHERE he wants his films to be viewed. Remember...we're talking about how movies are getting darker, not inaudible.
Nice pun "inception to final delivery"
@@briancolwill3071 I see you caught that. Nice.
0:03 Oh gods my allergies....I'm sneezing just by looking at this dust cloud! 😫😫😤
Even Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, was way too dark. I was oscillating between 3D glasses on, and 3D glasses off.
Man that reminds me why I hate 3D.
The last time I watched a movie in 3D was an Resident Evil movie (you can judge me now for my bad taste, but I started the series as a young teenager and watched every movie after that, just not at the cinema anymore after the bad 3D experience). With the glasses on I could see NOTHING without the glasses I could at least see that they went trough a tunnel 😅)
Where does the light come from? "Same place the music does." - Andrew Lesnie
Movies are about immersion, just because it is night doesn't mean it needs to be unwatchable.
Its too dark, I dont care what they wanted me to see, my tv is just on 70% max brightness now, so i can see what's happening, I dont have a perfect dark room, and i dont sit at home like golem in the pitch black to watch tv!
Vox: It’s not you - movies are getting darker.
Me: I thought Vox was referring to dark content.
Rewatching some of my favourite movies on a new oled tv resolved most of the issues I had with scenes being too dark. I think the new qleds are also good at showing detail in dark scenes. These tv's don't fix the issue completely but they do make it much better to watch at home.
The producers are basically prioritising content to look good on high end tv's and ignoring the majority of people who just have budget or mid-range tv's.
This is not true. Most director's prioritse movie theatre's which are famously bad at black levels unless you go to a more fancy theatre like a Dolby theatre. The reality is that they're doing this becaues VFX is so prevelant that darkness masks a lot of it's imperfections.
The best part of this video was the trivia at the end, about how movies can make visible darkness with infrared cameras. Very cool.
I think the problem is a lot of people are watching these on displays which struggle to properly display black scenes without losing a lot of detail. This is made worse when people watch it in brighter rooms with lights on around them.
depends, I watch the latest house of dragon shot in a dim rom at night, stil to dark.
Or poorly calibrated screens. Most people just use the store settings.
if a lot of people can't just watch the screen they have and see the images, the problem becomes the images, not the screens.
@@mbogucki1 I use a bright setting, not the "movie" setting that is darker. but for a streaming setup like HBO, they shuold plan for people wathinh in their living room
I am watching on an 8 year old 42" screen, most people keep tvs for at least 6 years, so what ever super dark room tec they are using, they need to wait another 8 to 10 before most of us have, it but they will have something even better by then.
I remember this used to be really a bad years back when most people had LCD displays, and if you didn't have the right viewing angle you physically could not see what was going on.
Visually darker, yes. I'm wondering if there's also a general darkening in themes.
Movies are also getting more philosophically and emotionally dark.
DC movies be like 😭
Parents, children, siblings, aunt (wife), all dead.
DC has always thought of becoming darker 💀
@@Xychal dc was never dark,dc comics has always Veena goofy and colorful
@@davidlaid1146 nobody’s talking about the comics.
I love the darkening of movies after 2012 but I'm having more and more trouble hearing dialogs. They're getting less comprehensible and more blended with the background. It's getting more impossible to hear without assistance from subtitles.
I remember I stayed at a friend’s house a long time ago and the next morning we started watching Batman Begins. The movie was dark enough to begin with, but there was this intense sunlight/glare coming through the window onto the tv as well. I gave up ten minutes in, it was too much.
Are you blaming a movie for sunlight?
@@vashsunglasses No
I mean yes, that's why movie theaters are dark, because sunlight doesn't let you see.
@@angelsunemtoledocabllero5801 I understand that, simply saying that it being darker than a lot of other movies made the home video watching experience worse in that situation. In ideal viewing situations all movies would be equally watchable of course.
This has been an issue for decades now. I remember Roger Ebert mentioning in one of his books that Martin Scorsese actually conducting research on this and proving this to be the case.
Remember Ang Lee's Hulk movie back in 2003? There was a scene where The Hulk fought a group of gamma-mutated "Hulk Dogs," which was so ridiculously and needlessly dark that it basically looked like a black screen with occasional glimpses of something moving in shadows.
While great for cinema, some of the dark scenes are problematic for viewers at home. Not everyone watches movies in a pitch-black environment and settings like "Contrast Enhancer" (Samsung) alter the image too much, brighter scenes are looking really bad for example.
This! Samsung has a horrible contrast enhancer which blows out the highlight. I always turn the filmmaker mode on
i think it's supported by the technical advancements of new cameras. old cameras suffer in the dark a lot more than new cameras. so it's a new possibility for filmmakers as a result of new cameras
I think that's exactly what the video said.
It's so exausting because they're not using it well.
Look at the descent, a film which really uses darkness to its advantage, Vs something like Pyramid.
Both are set underground in the dark, but one has bright lights and contrast and really shows off what darkness is using that. The other is a muddy mess of blue light where everything's a bit eh. There's no contrast and it just sort of seems dim.
This reminds me of the videos on excessive frame rates or the resolution wars. At the end of the day the TV manufacturers need to get on the same page and make products that meet a standard of color display and resolution that enables us to watch movies as they're intended to be seen.
I think that the arrival of digital allowed for more darkness and the film industry went all in as the new cool things to do.
The dark movie is a fad that I think is peaking - I am not the only one at being really really annoyed at peering at black screen.
Does it defeat some of the purpose of a motion picture to not be able to see what's going on?
So much dust floating around maybe Vox should turn the lights down as well
Even if it’s what the movie makers wanted, it’s still too dark.
I wonder if movie theatres could offer a special screening for those who have issues with low-light, just as they sometimes add captions for those who are deaf in certain screenings.
this isn't something that would be possible on the distribution end as there's no way to change the grade without altering it universally which would make the film look really weird as everything would be effected and cause unintentional artifacting. you'd have to alter each scene separately which is akin to creating an entirely separate grade which is too cost prohibitive for most any production as the problem is compounded by length so a feature length or serialised product can only afford a single grade. the question is then one of priorities like the video points out, do you optimise for the best case or the general viewing experience outside of ideal conditions. personally i'd say general viewing as it would make the intended effect more impactful for more people but perhaps less intense when viewed optimally and typically filmakers prefer to maximise the impact of a moment which can come at the expense of the overall experience and i'm just rambling now but in a nutshell something like a directors cut is profitable in a way that a more intelligible alternate experience simply isn't. I think the idea is good though and would greatly benefit many.
@@nathanielbenson3507 That does seem surprising. It's too cost prohibitive for a movie that costs hundreds of millions of dollars to make to have a second set of color balancing? I totally understand the narrative appeal, but at the same time, we have an aging population who might have issues discerning dark colors. Many of these people grew up reading the comic books that are now in film, and have these issues. If people can't see the film because it's too dark, they just won't watch the film.
The problem really is the compression with streaming service nowadays, not exactly the dark scenes. Color bending in dark situation is really distracting and not much information is delivered properly, even if you have the best display.
This is why I was impressed by Prey. I could actually see what was going on.
Whatever the solution is, they need to do it so people can friggin see.
Great report.
This,and the subtitle report,is a few of the best reportings i have EVER seen in years.
I miss old movies because they're so much more vibrant
Some scenes are so dark I cant see clearly even after I turn the lights off in my room
Not just darkness, movie and tv show quality is going down, which is a sign of bad filmmaking in Hollywood, most movies and tv shows are bad
I loathe how dark films are now.
Ive turned off a few movies literally because it was SOFAKING frustrating to try and see anything
every image in the hbo show Euphoria is stunning. I would want to watch more shows with that kind of aesthetic
Thanks for this! I thought I was having a more difficult time seeing as I'm aging!
Movies in general have went drastically downhill on every level since 2012.
There are things I genuinely cannot watch in the daylight because I can't see anything on my TV even with the blinds close, just a little bit of light seeping in makes it impossible to see what's going on the screen D:
Expecting literal Vantablack in cinema any day now
I hate it i cant see what’s going on
I came home one night and my family were so quiet and the lights were off. I thought they’re watching Batman movie, so I entered quietly and then they told me that the landlord cut the power off until we pay hydro bills.
1:05 the darkness in the Harry Potter films was used to tel a story about how the stakes had turned and the fact that the Dark Lord had returned I feel
Didn’t realize it is all about fidelity. Thnks for explaining. And it made total sense when I remember criticizing dark scenes with too much light, as filmed under three full moons back in the early 2000s.
Darkness isn't the problem - contrast is! 95% of the screen can be pitch black, but the highlights and contours really have to pop!
Cant watch game of thrones in the afternoon 😂
came here straight from your 'need subtitles' video and the first thing I noticed was how easy it was to understand your bane impression.
YES BUT IT'S TOO DARKKK OMG