The OLD HEAD Paradox
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
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Ep 205 | This week Josh Eddy and Alvin came to politic about
0:00 Preview
2:27 YASIIN BEY (FKA Mos Def) says DRAKE isn't HIP HOP
14:26 WIZ KHALIFA says he's not disrespecting his BM
55:34 What older generations got RIGHT about PARENTING
Bonus ep -
O(ri)ffice Politics- czcams.com/users/livetybibAcHe4Y - Komedie
This would have been the perfect episode to have FD on, he's a true Drake hater. 😂
I mean, you aren't wrong but he would bring some nuance to it as well.
I won't lie. When I saw the Mos Def clip around the time others did, and every time I've seen discourse about it, I've thought of FD's Drake video, particularly FD doing his impression of a white dude being dead serious saying "Drake is the greatest rapper of all time." lol
I completely agree
He would've had an aneurysm lol
I came here to say this 😂 cuz there’s a few inaccuracies they’ve said in here that FD has addressed in a few of his videos
Drake is the embodiment of capitalism inserted into hiphop.
Drake the live service video game of music
I mean... To be fair and balanced, anytime an artist brags about what they buy or shits on a dude that can't afford to buy it, that's inserting capitalism into hip hop.
😂
@@righteouslioncomedian1069 this true but it's one thing to capitalistic and actually be capitalism imo.
@@moballardful
"BE capitalism"? Damn! 😂
I can't believe they talked about it this long without talking about his end of capitalism stuff. It's directly tied to his Drake criticism
I think that’s just how nuanced the topic is. They have episodes like this all the time where they talk about 1 part of a topic for an hour and you just don’t get to hear much out of the about anything else
That's what happens when you have a podcast run at an hour, conversations don't evolve past the surface issue.
Where can I find the interview
@@CallmeTochi yasiin bey cutting room floor interview
Drake is pop. He said this himself. "Shopping with an edge"😂😂😂
Drake is the 2K/Call of Duty of rap. Comes out every year but it’s the same shit. That is what Mos Def meant and it went completely over y’all heads
I don't think Yasiin was being shady. He was asked a question and reluctantly told his truth. He also said Drake's music is likable. His larger point was about Capitalism and Consumerism--and how Drake fits into them. I think the issue with Drake is that his catalog doesn't say anything substantial. No, he doesn't have to be Chuck D or Lupe Fiasco (who also has "pop" songs). But the essence of Hip Hop is not just rapping. Dang, Justin Bieber can rap. Hip Hop is rooted in saying something every now and then about what is happening in the world (ala Kendrick, J Cole, Rapsody, Yasiin, Black Thought). Yes, Drake is a great rapper. I love many of his songs. But oftentimes. I view him as engaging in Cosplay (blaccent and all). Nevertheless Drake ranks number one when it comes to "Pop" Rap, and there is nothing wrong with that (though of course, Yasiin might disagree)
EXACTLY break it down
I disagree. Drake, especially early on has had plenty of songs with substance, mainly the struggles of navigating early adulthood, which is a reason why I think he grew as big as he did. I think what you meant to say was he doesn’t say or address anything politically, which imo (and history’s) is not a hip hop qualifier.
I think a lot of people forget the origin of hip hop isn’t public enemy. It literally started as party music. In the beginning actually the DJs were more revered than the MCs.
@@AreT-me7vw I think at this point in his career we can recognize Drake's supposed emotional vulnerability from his early tracks were part of his schtick. The Drake brand has been consumerism + womanizing + tough guy talk. Wash, rinse and repeat ad nauseum.
@@fangal12 don’t know what you mean by “supposed”.
As for his brand currently, you can say that about a ton of other artists, now and in history. Doesn’t make them or drake any less hip hop.
@@AreT-me7vw I guess what I mean is that to me it's pretty clear that Aulbrey Graham has been playing a character, a rapper named Drake. I don't think he's authentic or sincere, I think he's just repeating a formula that's been successful for him.
And as far as the "is it hip hop?" question I guess I kind of see it like a show tune. A broadway show tune can be in the style of rock & roll but is that actually rock & roll? A show tune can be rap but does that make it hip hop?
On Wiz and Amber, my parents had the same relationship growing up. They co-parented me, and since they were best friends when they dated before they had me they continued to be best friends afterwards. I BEGGED them to get together most of my childhood and they refused because the romantic feelings weren't there anymore. It was so beautiful being raised by two parents who were best of friends, but I saw how my Dad's willingsness to drop anything for my Mom hurt his relationships. I can literally remember the men in my Mom's life telling her to stop seeing my Dad so often and trying to get me to stop calling him Dad. I think Wiz did a lil too much with that one comment but the rest of what he said is solid. I love seeing great co-parenting relationships and I think having a child with someone creates a special bond between two people so anyone who wants to date someone with a child has to understand that. I agree with Alvin on the insecurites bit, it's hard but I try not to put my insecurites on my partners and move with trust. If that trust is broken then I consider that action a reflection on their character not mine.
I cant take yall serious. Street and Drake in the same sentence is wild🤨
the dude on the top right corner gives Aubrey Angel vibes lol😂😂😭😭. From the first second he breathed on the mic and used the generic "hater" card I was like "ohhh lord..."😂😂😂😂
y'all calling Alvin a pre-villian while he was just sitting there had me crying 😂
Nobody really touched on the whole "drake makes music for capitalism" as much as they should have.
Yasiin is definitely not wrong about the commercialization aspect.
Now - if it was Talib Kweli - the video would be more indicative of the "old head ism" 😅
But I think we're all complicit in making Drake who he is. Nelly, Rule, Bone and Crucial Conflict were anomalies in terms of sing/rapping but after Drake, rappers took whatever Ye did on 808s and Heartbreaks and made it their blueprint for the next 20 years.
I think FD’s Anakin Skywalker analogy becomes more and more on point with Drake.
What is that?
Multiple things can be true at the same time.
Mos could absolutely be a hating ass old head bitter at seeing a younger generation of artist enjoy a level of fame, mainstream and financial success him and his peers were never afforded
And Drake’s success could largely be due to the fact that when he’s not straight up leeching off whatever the “IT” sound of the moment is, he’s been using the same generic cookie cutter album formula for almost 2 decades and it’s resulted in a lot of pleasant, crowd pleasing albeit underwhelming and forgetful music
Mos aint hating grow up
Drake is from a nickelodeon show that's not hiphop do you want me to go on?
Yall doing a podcast where you play each other and don't tell anyone sounds like a Community episode and I'm here for it.
Drake: I’m a Popstar, not a doctor.
Mos Def: Drake is Pop.
People: Drake hater!!
55:15 Leaving in the piss break was sooo uncalled for 🤣🤣🤣
Let it be known on record that I beat Alvin to "it started out in the park", and that was just while I was watching the intro. 🤣🤣🤣
Seems like bone thugs introduced melody to rap.... hate when people say Drake did this
if someone has a child and they've got a solid, caring relationship with their coparent, that just makes them more trustworthy
that's an example of a good family relationship - good family relationships aren't red flags
He's pop. The reason many people don't see that is because by the mid-90's the goal of many black artists was to become pop stars so they watered down the music bit by bit.
Drake's a pop artist who has real hip hop chops., but mostly chose pop. I generally prefer his pop to his hip hop.
It's footlocker music
This right here
Calling Drake female friendly in 2024 is insane 😭😭 but he definitely encourages more vulnerability within male centered hip-hop, I’ll you give that. Y’all were probably spot on about Drake having the more commercial career other rappers wanted but didn’t or couldn’t take and end up playing into the “lightskin men are soft and more feminine” rhetoric.
Drake respresented introspection. Are yall sure?? He was always looked at as the "Hit maker" imo. Kendrick is the modern introspective rapper imo.
I think alot of people are confusing "sentimental/introspective" with "in his feelings". They not the same
@@Fooacta Yup and even though he's essentially been saying the same sentimental stuff for 15 years people somehow believe they're seeing a glimpse into Drake's soul when he's really just repeating a formula that works for him.
this is the furthest thing from an 'old head paradox'.....
The difference between an emcee and a rapper's approach to Hip Hop is at the core of Yasiin's response. But it's exactly the response she knew she would get from an artist like Yasiin. It's a gotcha question meant to get clicks.
I think y’all are missing Yasiin’s point 100% when your take away is “ you’re not making real hip hop cuz it’s sentimental, you’re making music for bitches “. Maybe yall just didn’t see the entirety of what he said but that target comment wasn’t a slight at him making sentimental music. It’s about how he admittedly went pop. He made the rap element of hip hop for everybody and hip hop at its core has always been it for everybody. He’s essentially saying Drake sold out hip hop. Not saying he’s the first to do so or the last. But I’m pretty sure that’s what he’s saying when he says he makes music that’s compatible with consumption and shopping. Come man how did yall not make that clear connection and jump right on painting Yasiin as some old black guy who’s against men having emotions 😭
Because they're not seasoned enough to see the system crushing the art that they claim to love
Nah man he's right. What is Drake really saying with his art? Nothing. A whole Lotta nothing. His production is incredible but his songs are about a lifestyle and experience that is unrelatable and mostly just for vibes and fun. I think Yasiin is saying that hip hop has purpose to him, that has something to actually say.
No argument about pop and hiphop being able to coexist. That said, at this point I feel like Drake's music is more about relevance and profit than anything else since about 2015-16. I dont think theres anything necessarily wrong with that but the bulk of his output is low effort bandwagon-ing (either byhopping on the latest musical trend or featuring whoever's hot this week) or making another mopey "these young hoes ain't shit" / "I'm mad nobody respects me even though I literally won music" track.
He can still put out some fire shit when he bothers to, but most of his music is just there to take up space.
Really great episode!
This was a fun ride! It’s nice to hear y’all laughter with each other.
Old head here, Mos got stuff I like Drake got stuff I like. My perspective is Hip Hop is mature enough as a genre that it has variances in how emceeing can be presented to the masses. Only something that is alive is always growing and changing.
I mean, Paul Mooney is always gone be hilarious to me. Doesn't have to wear a dress or act more gay for me to laugh at his jokes. If I like what a n*gga do then you ain't gotta be extra to prove anything to me🤣
On this last topic, I think what's missing is the sense of community prior generations have had. I've seen tons of millenial / gen z parents giving their kids structure, and choosing to concious parent so I don't feel as though that sense of structure has ever been lost. It almost feels like it's gotten better. I see parents asking their kids if they want to eat, giving them options of what they eat and where they eat as a family. Kids have choices now which is so lovely, but I do think some parents just think kids having choices means they can just do whatever they want and that's a problem.
I would love to have jumped in on this conversation because I feel like I've had this conversation so many times.
If my girl doesn't trust me, then i need to address her feelings. If I don't trust her, then I need to address why. It's not really up to them to change their behavior. It's about addressing what is going on.
8:10 I think y’all are being too literal. The idea of Drake as a mall is because Drake does some of everything. Amazon isn’t a bookstore, they’ll just sell anything you’re willing to buy.
Luv these guys
The beautiful gowns moment was soooo random lmfaooooo
Drake wasnt the first to introduce female friendly at all: BDK, Heavy D, LL all wete female friendly
6:50 “you make music for bitches” is not what Yassiin meant at all. He’s too conscious for that. He’s literally talking about capitalism. Y’all seem like you just watched the clips and not his full statement.
When has Kanye ever put in the effort to be marketable/safe in the way that Drake has? Putting the artistry aside completely:
Kanye was coming out against homophobia after just 1 album. Interrupting award shows before the big finale with Taylor Swift. Caling out George W Bush. Etc etc. Kanye has never been safe or marketable.
Wanting to resonate with everyone is not the same as pursuing safety/marketability.
Oh I can't wait to watch this- my exact reaction was that he just sounds old. And I listen to Mos Def several days a week, so I am clearly also not young anymore 😅
I feel yall, but I heard it said Drake back then, I believe attacking pitchfork, said that they gotta stop hiring ppl from the “mos def fan club”. He could’ve used anyone’s name but that might be why mos def threw that shade
They are literally both old heads. Drake is turning 38 this year.
i am excited to see the swaperoo episode in the future
God Alvin's summation of the Wiz Khalifa convo before it happened is spot on and had me dying. Literally when they started it up my first thought was gonna be "and Eddies gonna be insecure about it and make that out like its not just normal but an almost required element of being in a monogamous relationship and then Alvins gonna disagree and then we're gonna argue over-" and Alvin was already going with my exact thoughts 🤣
I also disagree with the reading of Wiz was saying. I didnt think he was saying "oh i might end up back with her" i think he was saying "if the mother of my children needs me for something i may choose her over you in that moment" which like COULD mean they end up together but could also be like "hey shes in the hospital i have to cut this date short to make sure everythings okay" personally i think thats very different. Of course i am also a polyam person whos like... not obsessed with having One Relationship Matter More Than Any Other Human Being and kind of thinks that obsession is a little creepy irl... but those are different discussions
Wiz definitely say something stupid, but he probably didn’t mean to
Drake is definitely shopping hip hop. Like target hop hop.
You needed THAT old head for this one.
21:15 Alvin be saying he ain't tryna start an argument, the signs be there 😂. He on some "don't you start" but that in itself is a starter
How can you simultaneously say Hip Hop has changed and in the same breath say Drake is still making what Mos Def would call Hip Hop.
Because Mos Def's view of Hip Hop is going to be subjective regardless of what Hip Hop becomes. The first car and a Tesla are completely different vehicles but Tesla wouldn't stop being a car if Henry Ford said it wasn't.
@@lucariojet😂
Eddy basically want to be Dale Gribble from King Of The Hill
I think it just comes down to is the fact that a significant percentage of fans want hip hop and its artists to be revolutionary or counter culture in some way (a criminal, a weirdo, a wannabe rock star, a crazy artist etc) and Drake is just too normal for them. You see the same sort of sentiment from people who hate the NBA today and "miss 90s basketball"
Thank god for the comment section
Ok this had to be your funniest episode
I’m on y’all’s ass on this video 😂 yall not gon sit here and say Drake introduced a lot of melodies into Rap like Kid Cudi didn’t bless Kanye with 808s and Heartbreaks…. Ya know the album that drakes entire career sounds like 😭
I have no love for Mr. Whipped and Chained you like American slaves, so I'll admit, I giggled when Yasiin basically called rap Jesse McCartney. I also found it really funny that everyone doggedly defending him now are the same niggas who called him a popstar in his "for the bitches" era, what a difference a day makes etc etc.
Like, so NOW yall love him because he popped out with the same formula he used to market himself as a "loverboy rapper" to market himself to incel rap adjacent niggas who's internalized antiblackness wasn't quite unchecked enough for them to enjoy fully CAMP. (Side note did yall know that Take Care and CAMP dropped on the same day? Nov 15 an official sad boy rap holiday, god damn)
I also think that we don't talk enough about how Drake's sad boy rap era really set the stage for what we would see later In the industry and how, generally his music did really push us into an era of
"cross over appeal as the main goal" that we'd only really seen previously from some like a Kanye. Like, if we look at his impact and career from that lens? I feel like we can have a more well rounded talk about his "pop" status.
Y’all funny af bruh lmao
I gotta do better Josh called out my whole fuckboy playbook like from the gas light to the time frame of 2 days…yeah gotta get my shit together 😂
Drake is NOT hip hop, he's vanilla ice with a splash of carmel😂
i agree wth mos def
51:14 LMAO
commenting just to say that The Ecstatic is not “fine”, Alvin 😭😭😭
Look at all these SKUs got me 😂
I don’t entirely think it’s fair to say yasim has made himself more marketable to white people. First one changed his name to a pretty explicitly Muslim name. Secondly he has been very quick to speak up against injustices all over the world. Even in that radio interview he did he is wearing a kufia witch is a Palestinian symbol of resistant. And he addresses and speaks out for Palestine in that same interview. There was also that one time where he underwent the same force feeding torture that was being practice in Guantánamo Bay, so to say that he made himself more marketable, feels a little unfair
When there something new There will always be a old head hating on that new thing
52:52 Watching Josh tryna deflect the player allegations had me cackling
Definitely not an old head thing, a younger Mos would've said the same thing. He's just a Hip-Hop "purist". Not much different from when emcees would call Hammer pop or even a sellout during the time.
I hate the old head paradox because I've had the same snobby ass taste in music since my early 20s lol, I hated almost everything on BET & MTV since Viacom took over. It was pretty clear they weren't pushing indie/underground artist like they used to tho. That was around 2004 or so.
6:05 Drake dropped 5 versions of Views after 2016 (More Life, Scorpion, Dark Lemo Tapes, CLB and For all the dogs), and the question is: are those rap albums or gimmicky trend bait albums (which is pop)?
There you go, and currently that makes 60% of Drake's discography, so yea....
the old head narrative doesnt work here. its like calling Nas a old head if he had said the same thing. Drake does not remotely measure up to these giants . so when a giant speaks, listen. and mos def is absolutely correct in everything he said, Drake is not talking about anything, he caters to chicks and he doesnt even write his stuff, he is safe, he is commercial, kids and grannies like his music, even he is offended when he is confronted with that fact, lol.
But that's the thing drake makes commercial music. Even if he makes mid music it doesn't make a difference. He has a good machine behind him. So you're going to see him no matter how you feel. Shit even if people don't like his stuff you're going to see him. And if I can applau drake for anything he's a marketing expert and that's about it. He knows when to do what thing. He probably pays attention to the internet a whole bunch and plants accordingly. Which is great I just wish he would put that much effort into his music.
Y’all too funny
I've had deja 4 times with this conversation about drake. Literally it's been 4 times yall talked about this.
Grown men glazing Drake when Mos was absolutely right is insanity to me… he is not hip hop. Has not been for a long time… Yassin said exactly what he is….
Something cool to shop to. With an edge. He’s a Jewish Canadian whose been style hopping and using whatever local sound is popping to further his pop career
He’s a rapper stop hating
For whatever reason Eddie reminds me of Imdontai lmao
Everyone always makes this a music genre disussion when Yasiin was really making a socio-political argument. Drake represents everything wrong with the commodification of art, which ties into the commodification of EVERYTHING under capitalism, which ties into his wider criticism of world politics.
Dude these comments are flooded with people telling yall how wrong yall are on this drake thing 😂 I get it, the guys always being called out for something, so you guys may feel the need to give some push back. But it ain’t always warranted and sometimes mfs are completely right when they call him out. Actually I’d say more often than not, when he’s called out, the person calling him out is right.
Mos was speaking to the core elements of hip hop.. and if were honest how drake moves is antithetical to that... His music is designed with a target audience because its all about record sales where as artist create art out of love for the art of course people all desire commercial success... But most dont sell out to do so... Mos wasnt throwing shade thats the difference between an adults view of what was said a little more nuanced approach than just hes hating.... Hes not hes standing on principles... Culture... Representation...
Drakes music has just assimulating other peoples authentic sound and commercializing it and stealing from it.. if not for his black father he would be a more palatable vanillia ice a culture vulture
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Ja Rule singing on tracks as a rapper well before there was a Drake?
Which is part of the reason ppl love 50 cent (too much).
Also yall got the Kanye thing ass backwards lmaooo. He wasn’t writing before. Him and his writer, Consequence, fell out over that MAGA bullshit Kanye was on. Ever since then it’s been all Kanye writing, which is why we’ve gotten bars like “ Everybody hurts, but I don’t judge rentals “
Ayo alvin be on overwatch 2 drop that GamerTag bro 😂
I very much agree with Yasiin bey. I just wished we all could just enjoy the laugh that is Drake song being played while walking down the cleaning product aisle. Especially his more recent songs
There's a lot of context lost on Yasiin when you take out the parts about capitalism, and I think that urgency comes heavily now as we are seeing the direct effects of overconsumption and capitalism through MULTIPLE genocides. I think his point is that so much of Drake's music encourages this overconsumption and doesn't encourage people to think critically about what's going on in the world. Drake makes music that doesn't challenge people and therefore is more consumable for white people which will always secure popularity. And I definietly think that people are upset that Kanye has moved away from speaking on more critcal topics here and there hence the whole "I miss the old Kanye"phase. I love Drake, and will always listen to his music but I know I'm never gonna hear anything important come from his mouth when even 21 Savage has some songs discussing problems within the Black community. He doesn't have to be Lupe, but damn Drake you don't got an opinion on NOTHINGGGGG EVER???? LOL
The Wiz/Amber thing, lets be honest, a young musician is not being faithful no matter what. Amber is more likely to settle down than him. So her dating experiences is more fucked from what Wiz said than anything lol. The next man has been given notice that he will always have to compete with the baby daddy.
Imo Controlla and One Dance are terrible examples of pop music bc they're both just watered down dancehall.
Honestly the definition of pop music i believe in most strongly is watered down "insert genre here" music.
Yall saying he has only pop songs, state 4 joints from more than a decade ago. Lmao.
I agree with Alvin 😂😂 if I trust my partner (or anyone I have a meaningful relationship with) to not fuck me over then what is the worry? Just say y'all don't trust them and stop trying to make something work that obviously doesn't. Wiz is 💯 with what he said and it shouldn't be hard to understand where he is coming from if you really trust him.
If missing the point was a podcast here it is😂😂q
You need some old heads on this video to give wider context
The drake convo has the worst takes you guys have ever had😭😭😭😭
Bruh the amount of distance Drake is getting from 5AM in Toronto. Whenever people need to establish his rap credentials, it's always the first song they go to.
Ngl, the song is fire, but I feel like Drake fans need at least a second go to.
Drake is pop..
Drake is about as hip hop as Parapper The Rapper is a Grammy Winning Artist
Drake is pop music in the sense that it is popular music. I didn't see it as slight or diss on Drake. Also hip hop is pop music/popular music, you look at the charts and hip hop is mostly charting.
Does he bring a "softer" touch to the rap game. He is more obsessive if anything. Where in the beginning of his career? Yes, he was talking about his feelings and all that other type of stuff that was actually progressive. But At this point he's not talking about his feelings. He's complaining about females and what he don't like about them. At a certain point in your life. I would think you would stop blaming the women around you and start thinking that it might be how you act. Especially when you have a kid. But no but he's still going to complain about how b****** aint s***And they don't know how to control their feelings or whatever Other excuse he makes about why women don't want to be with him Oh why he can't find the right woman.
Isn't that what like 100% of RnB mostly entails?🤣
@@ReshonBryant basically
@@mackeym10 Well, it's interesting that gay RnB doesn't dominate.
Let’s talk about Quintin Miller 👏🏼👏🏼 because Drake is a villain.
I thought he was being nice… Drake is a dork who makes dorky music for dorks, but hey! Dorks need music too.
Sorry, love Drake😂 I like alot of his music. I don't care what genre he's in. Honestly, Nevermind was a no for me but overall I like him🤷🏿♀️
Ask Meek Mill is Drake is pop?
hip hop as in he isnt making music that upsets white people. Listen to mark lamont hill on this
SMH there's a different between being an artist and cog. Both have a useful purposes but they're not the same.
7:03 y’all are missing the whole point of what Yasin was talkin bout and that sucks
Mos def/ yasin bey brought that melodic, singy-rapper to the game.
And exactly correct, that drake did exaclty what he(yasin) wanted to do.
Yasin was acting.
Peep that movie he did when he portrayed a heart surgeon or some shit, it was really dope. And his acting performance was crazy good.
I feel like yasin was trying to roast drizzy a lil too hard because the lovely woman doing the interview had him sprung a dung.
And drake has dabbled with reggae and dancehall, electronic music recently, he is always doing his thing. And always has above average bars. He is a character and his sad old man phase is funny and entertaining. They both like 20 years apart having the same old man issues smh.
What’s the difference between Drake and Heavy D?????? All rappers sell a product and they are both Drake and Mos Def entertainer’s