Rimmers 31 Individuals - Legion Theory: Red Dwarf Explained
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- #reddwarf
It's time to deep dive on a question no one was actually asking: who are the 31 individuals that Arnold Rimmer references in the series 6 episode Legion? By the end of this video I hope to convince you that it’s far more interesting than you might first assume!
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1. Cat priest - s1 e4 waiting for god
2. Mayor of Warsaw - s1 e5 confidence and paranoia
3. Listers Confidence - s1 e5 confidence and paranoia
4. Listers Paranoia - s1 e5 confidence and paranoia
5. Deb - Female Lister - s2 e6 parallel universe
6. Arnie - Female Rimmer - s2 e6 parallel universe
7. The Dog - s2 e6 parallel universe
8. Hilly - Female Holly - s2 e6 parallel universe
9. The Polymorph - s3 e3 polymorph
10. Hitler - s3 e5 Timeslides
11. Hudson 5 - s3 e6 the last day
12. Camille - s4 e1 camille
13. Hector - s4 e1 camille
14. Curry Monster - s4 e2 DNA
15. Simulant - s4 e3 justice
16. Ace Rimmer - s4 e5 dimension jump
17. Nirvana Krane - s5 e1 holoship
18. Binks - s5 e1 holoship
19. Captain Platini - s5 e1 holoship
20. Natalina Pushkin - s5 e1 holoship
21. Randy Navarro - s5 e1 holoship
22. Justified Lister - s5 e2 inquisitor
23. Justified Kryten - s5 e2 inquisitor
24. The Inquisitor - s5 e2 inquisitor
25. Unspeakable One - s5 e3 Terraform
26. Terraform woman 1 - s5 e3 Terraform
27. Terraform woman 2 - s5 e3 Terraform
28. Professor Landstrom - s5 e4 quarantine
29. Despair squid - s5 e6 back to reality
30. Psiren 1 - Pete Trances sister - s6 e1 psirens
31. Psiren 2 - Kryten - s6 e1 psirens
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Anyhow, the question; who are Rimmers 31?
Alright alright, dont go, dont go
I think I’d better fill in the blanks here.
Back in the series 6 episode ‘Legion’ Rimmer whilst trying to recruit Legion to join the Red Dwarf crew says that “In all our travels we’ve met precisely 31 individuals, three one, and we’ve never felt moved to invite a single one to join our crew.”
No you might be thinking, 'yeah, fair enough, there must have been 31 people, monsters and so on by series 6'. But here's the big problem; by the time you include all the people on backwards world, stasis leak, timeslides and more you can forget 31, the number ends up more like double that!
I mean, meltdown alone had at least 20 characters that the guys directly interacted with!
So how on earth did rimmer get to just 31, and who could they be?
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Greetings fellow dwarfers, welcome to red dwarf nerd, I'm Dan.
To work out who Rimmers 31 individuals are, we first need to work out who they arnt!
Or to put it slightly better, we need to know whom Rimmer might have excluded and why?
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So lets try and run through the excluded characters in something like episode order. First up, The Cat, he would certainly qualify as the first individual they meet, however as were looking for those not invited to join the crew, i guess he doesnt count. So in exactly the same vain, Kryten doesnt count towards rimmers 31 either.
Additionally, I dont think we need include different age versions of the dwarfers themselves. So no need to count old or young lister, as they’ve already met him before at a different times. And Me2 duplicate rimmer doesnt count as in theory its just a version of rimmer thats a few weeks younger. I’m also not including alternative versions unless they were played by a different actor, so no high or low dwarfers from Demons and angles, but I have included the female crew from parallel universe.
Better than life characters were just essentially computer game NPC’s so dont count. And Queeg is just holly in disguise.
No the people they meet in Stasis leak is interesting. You could well argue that they count as people they met during their travels, however, I think we could easily argue that there were no really new acquaintances here, as they already knew the crew 3million years earlier.
And then we get to the people from backwards. These were presumably not counted as they would have put the total right up! I mean in the fight scene alone there must be about a dozen individuals on screen at any one moment! - From Rimmers point of view It could well be that as he’s not including all these people because there not on there space travels as such, being that he and kryten were attempting to settle permanently on this strange verion of earth. or it might just be that following the cats backwards in the bushes moment they all agreed not to ever mention backwards world to outsiders! :-)
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I think Rimmer simply threw a believable number out there he assumed wouldn't be challenged, much like he constantly does with Red Dwarf's codes of conduct that Kryton frequently calls him out on.
Yeah, I think a random number could well be the case, although he does say it with conviction! :-)
To be fair to Rimmer he does know the contents of the directive book quite well he just doesn’t remember the exact passage sometimes only 1 detail off. And he even manages to apply this knowledge in dire situations like the simulant hostage situation.
I would swap the Cat Priest for Talkie Toaster. The Priest was born on the Dwarf like Cat. It's more his home than theirs.
But Talkie was purchased long before the crew got wiped....
Also, for all intents and purposes, Talkie WAS a member of the crew. In the books, he even saves the ship from the Polymorph by firing a red-hot ash tray at it 😅 So even if it wasn't officially a crew member, at least in an honorary way it certainly was.
@@danjones1710 I was thinking his date with Lister's 14 pound lump hammer disqualified him :)
@@ryans756 I was thinking Kryten shoving him in a grinder and not bringing him back would have disqualified him. But he is the Dwarf's unsung hero :)
@@covidkev8915 He is, at least until Rimmer's final moments in the book _Last Human._ I won't totally spoil it for those who haven't read it but it's well worth reading (or listening to -- the audiobook read by Lister himself is on CZcams, as are the others, all of which are just as wonderful as the shows, if not more so).
S...
M...
O...
K...
E...
M...
E...
A...
K...
I...
P...
P...
E...
R...
Gets me every time 😓
One minute in and I'm paused, rubbing the bridge of my nose in frustrated contemplation of what a nerd you're being right now, while simultaneously grinning, a Red Dwarf nerd myself, acknowledging what a good question it is and how interesting it might be to go through the first six series' and count them up.
Okay, let's unpause and see where you take us :)
Hmmm... 🤔
Having now watched the entire video, I'm not sure I'd count in exactly the same way, I think I'd be more literal (and therefore include the hooded creatures in Terrorform) and might not have included Confidence or Paranoia because they simply DID become part of the crew for a little while. At least, Lister and Holly were okay with their presence, only Rimmer having any sort of gripe about it... They were also not life forms exactly, but hallucinations. Therefore didn't actually exist, even though they also DID exist.
Oof. My head.
I don't think I'd include Hitler either because he wasn't really a life form they encountered, more of a historical figure they accidentally recreated (same with the skiers and Ms J'Jones, Thickie Holden, etc). But hell yes, I'd definitely include Justified Lister and Kryten. They were certainly lifeforms the Red Dwarf crew encountered. The Despair Squid is somewhat questionable since there's surely no feasible way they COULD invite it to be a member of the crew, but okay, it was a life form they encountered and it didn't get an invite so Rimmer wouldn't be wrong to include it in his list.
This is a lot of fun to think about! For such a short video, I've sat here an inordinately long time going over your list, hahaha). Also, I've stoked you a clipper, old fruit! In common parlance, means I've liked and subscribed 😉 You've rightly earned it.
ha, hope you enjoyed it in the end! 😂
Wow, how have I never seen your channel before? Gonna watch everything you make!
Same. What a guy!
I highly recommend it. This guy is a staple for RD content
cheers jessesloan864, glad you loked the vid!
Keep up the good work buddy :) loved the live stream and have a good Christmas/whatever you celebrate
cheers jacob, have a great one yourself!
Please do more shot by shot episodes I loved watching them after uni
cheers I'm hoping to get back to those some time soon!
It's Arlene not Arnie from Parallel Universe.
I do love that you've considered this worth looking into, it always puzzled me too.
Oh yeah, I've never looked at the cast list before, but your right, it just always sounded like she said 'arnie' to me! Now I've played it back I can hear it now as well! :-)
Rimmer mentioned the inquisitor almond the beings they have met but he shouldn't be able to remember the inquisitor since the inquisitor got erased
Ah, but THEY erased him, so they would remember that. Well at least two of them would, Lister and Kryten. Probably?
Good point though. Damn good point.
Another one, in 'Demons and Angels', lister talks about playing pool with planets, yet Kryten clearly states at the end of 'White Hole' that they will have no recollection of the events.
yeah, its a very sketchy one, I'll have to theory vid it sometime!
Definitely not a waste of 5mins, cool vid!
glad you liked it!
Well... The algorithm brought me here, so you might be doing something right!!
ha, thats great to hear! thanks for watching, much appreciated!
Over the years, I've come to regard you as people I met.
I asked this question nearly a decade ago on stack exchange and got some interesting answers.
Thanks for watching and commenting, I really appreciate it! 👍
sounds a good 31 to me!
cheers!
"Sir, don't cross the chopsticks!" 😨😨😨😨
**Dripping** "It was Lister, wasn't it? He put you off."
ha, i love that food fight scene!
@@RedDwarfNerd actually, Kryten tried to warn Rimmer not to cross the chopsticks.
Enjoyed it, good job!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Most of the characters you mentioned could not have joined the crew anyway... stasis leak the bar of soap turns to powder when brought back into the present... time slides never had characters walk through the photo and onto the dwarf (except maybe hitlers briefcase) also in timeslides how could they have brought back sabrina or Gilbert considered they exist on a time line where lister never even became a crew member? I think the gelfs and stimulants are the only realistic options that could have actually came on board the ship permanently.
Very true, although after realising that they didn't need to bring back Kochanski in Back to Reality, they could have used the spare stasis pod to bring back someone else but didnt appear to bother.
@@RedDwarfNerd how could you get kochanski if her own free will into a stasis booth and further more KEEP her in there until rimmer kills the crew without the captain saying "Where's kochanski?" She was a high ranking officer
@@alexanderrobertnewby easy, just buy her a cat and take her photo! 😊
@@RedDwarfNerd since I got your attention I want suggest a video 'top ten gags or jokes' from red dwarf.... mine has got to be evil rimmer in fish nets "first I'm going to whip you to an inch of your life and then... I'm going to hAve you" "why?" "Beacuse im not a very nice person" and of course the flintstones sketch
My theory is that Rimmer being visited by his future self as a child in Timeslides (and being given an idea that would have made him rich if Thickie hadn't overheard & Rimmer could have made it to the patent office earlier) made Rimmer more willing to listen to his future self when that version of him made it to being the past version of Rimmer in Stasis Leak - so in the post Timeslides reality that second Stasis booth is already filled by Rimmer - meaning that the people met in Timeslides are all off limits for this list.
Also there were two Polymorphs in the series three episode (the second encounter would have been off camera but it was all set up).
Personally I think I'd discount all alternate versions of the main crew including the female versions, all of Listers "solid hallucinations" in Confidence and Paranoia and the different elements of Rimmers personality in Terrorform.
Don't know how that would leave the list.
"We have met precisely 31 individuals". Kryten and Cat were met but were accepted so Rimmer was wrong when he said "none of them...." Or he meant the crew of 4 plus Holly have met 31, so after s2e7 . Your first 8 candidates therefore do not count!
It's a real headscratcher... I'm leaning towards it being a number chosen simply because it's the 31'st episode!
Don’t worry about the content, I would watch any of your content!
Cheers, I really appreciate that!
I don't think the justified Lister and Crichton would count because current-day rimmer wouldn't remember them.
Yeah, I think it's pretty doubtful he'd remember, but I guess lister could have told him about them?
Honestly I wouldn't count anyone that they didn't meet on or near the ship in present day.
Also I wouldn't count low-level AIs like the talking toaster, toilet, suitcase, etc.
Yeah, I think Rimmer is ignoring all AI devices... except himself! :-)
I’d say the wax droids don’t count because they are representations of people who already exist (existed)
ah, thats a good point, I didnt think of it that way around!
Perfect.
Cheers! :-)
I'm finally here. Time is weird atm seeing as I'm currently in Australia. Can't believe I missed the live show. Thought it would be available to watch after but I don't see it. 😪
cheers w8 man, go try the live section again, it should be there now. I'd made of private until i could make a new thumbnail, but then forgot to make it public again! 😂
@@RedDwarfNerd 😂 nice one mate!
@@w8m4n no probs 😊
Would Mr Fliibble count probably not since he was just an extension of Rimmers holographic image and likely has no sentience of his own
I'd love him to count, but he's just somthing projected as part of Rimmers hologram
Knowing Rimmer he probably included Kryten in there haha, also there's the nanobots that stole Red Dwarf sort of?
I'm not sure about the Inquisitor if, say, we don't include Justified Lister and Justified Kryten. Because he was erased after Lister reversed the gauntlet. He likely wouldn't be remembered by any of the crew because "all of [his] glorious work [would] be undone", so he wouldn't have met the crew in the first place after being erased. That's my opinion at least. I think the other ones make sense, but then that leaves 1 of the 31 left. 🤔
Ah, but the Inquisitor is actually one of the only ones we can confirm is on Rimmer's list, him and the Psirens, as Rimmer says to Legion: "true, most of them wanted, in some way, to suck out our brains, or erase us from history altogether". So they clearly remember the Inquisitor.
Thanks for watching and commenting, I really appreciate it! 👍
Legion trippy some how had super brains lives forever can make stuff but the makers could not turn them self's into ai was odd
I guess they/he was never intended to wind up alone, so didn't need to consider any backup plan?
What about the King of the Potato people? He was very vindictive.
The only problem here is the books were written first and have more background than the actual series so the line might be referencing some people from the books. A lot of material was cut.
Thanks for watching and commenting, I really appreciate it! 👍
the tv series started in 1988 the first book was published in 1989. personally i believe that the books are set in a different dimension from the tv series.
Doesn't Ace break your rules? He's an alternative version of Rimmer who's still played by the same actor. OTOH I think I'm letting the letter of the rules defeat the spirit of the rules - he'd still have been a good candidate to stay on the Red Dwarf, and IIRC Lister did ask.
Would Queeg count? True Queeg was a computer but I'd count him due to his impact on the boys. Perhaps if he was swaped with the mayor of Walsthorpe because of his limited time on screen.
Thanks for watching and commenting, I really appreciate it! 👍
Maybe its referencing the fact there's 31 episodes before it?
Thanks for watching and commenting, I really appreciate it! 👍
Wasn't it just the episodes of Red Dwarf at that time?
Thanks for watching and commenting, I really appreciate it! 👍
As he stated beforehand the two Justified characters from Inquisitor are different versions of Dwarfers. And he couldn't count "Ace" Rimmer either, he is just another version of Arnold Rimmer. Even if he is What a Guy. And you have to count Mr. Flibble. So get on your three seater magic carpet and go talk to the King of the Potato People.
Or the Siren that was caught in the guitar battle, or since he was another version of Lister that disqualifies him, ?it?
That was funny but cold.
Ace Rimmer, despite being played by the same actor, I feel counts as someone completely separate, whereas the 'high and low' dwarfers were the best and worst qualities of each dwarfer extrapolated from themselves, so in my mind there more like half clones - at least that's how it works in my head! :-) I'd love to count Mr Flibble however, as Rimmer was soft light at the time and couldnt touch a physical glove puppet, we'll have to conclude that the poor little sadistic penguin was just generated by rimmers light bee... rest in peace Flibble, you'll always be remembered! :-)
it's unclear to me if the guitar siren was a third one, or if it was just one of the two that fought on the asteroid, who survived the fight. We know they can survive bazookoid fire after all! :-)
@@RedDwarfNerd You do have a good point. And this is why this platform is here, to have discussions based on our opinions.
What about the Gelf Chief and Lister's Gelf wife?
That was in emohawk polymorph 2 which came after Legion so wouldn't count as they hadn't met them yet
Thanks for watching and commenting, I really appreciate it! 👍
Thanks for watching and commenting, I really appreciate it! 👍
You have a voice which is slightly similar to the youtuber Plainly Difficult, you wouldn't happen to be brothers would you?
In all seriousness though I am an instant sub of this channel before watching the video, and after watching it I made the right choice. I had to go to the order of filming of Series 6 just to make sure Gunmen or Rimmerworld weren't filmed before Legion. They weren't! Just thought it might be a point of contention.
Thanks for watching and commenting, I really appreciate it! 👍
I just think Rimmer is being exaggerating.
Hahaha. That's what I always just thought, that he was making a rough guess. Or that the writers just didn't count them up in any "strict canonical" way so we as viewers were just meant to accept that Rimmer has met 31 and we may or may not have seen them all in episodes :)
They only said 31 because that is how many episodes of Red Dwarf there were 31 episodes of Red Dwarf before legion
@@smelkus Is that a fact? 🧐 Legion is the 32nd Red Dwarf episode?
My goodness, I looked it up and you're right. Series 6, Episode 2... 5 x 6 + 2 = 32 :)
However, they didn't meet other lifeforms in every single episode so... 🤔
Possibly, but I guess he would be under exaggerating!
Now thats interesting, I never considdered that as they'd met so many more than 31!
I'd have eliminated a further:
Mayor of Warsaw - never conversed or attacked.
Everyone from the mutated slides - Not in space travels.
Corrected Lister & Kryten- already are crew.
Nomination for the 31: Vidal Beast of Sharmutt 2 (mentioned in VII but never stated when)
Personal headcanon: third Psiren poses as Dave Lister.
The Mayor of Warsaw was more or less a lifeform they encountered though, so could have been included in Rimmer's list, but I don't include the other Hallucinations in the list of 31 because Confidence and Paranoia did more or less become members of the crew, with only Rimmer ever raising an objection. After all, when Rimmer is talking about inviting a life form to join the crew, he's not talking about taking the entry exams, he's talking about physically being a member of the ship's team, so Confidence and Paranoia were exactly that until the former killed the latter and them himself...
Agreed on Timeslides. They weren't lifeforms the crew encountered, but historical figures they recreated. I can't agree with your "not in space travels" justification though because they were traveling in space at the time and could conceivably have invited them to join the crew. If that had happened, it could be accurate to say "we met them on our travels through space".
Gotta give you props for the Vidal Beast though. Probably not valid because of the chronology but hey, that's a great shout and it made me chuckle 😂
I did consider including the pan-dimentional liquid beast they apparently met on Christmas day (mentioned in Rimmerworld), but it's unclear if the Christmas in question was before or after Legion?
I think it was out of time not Rimmerworld
I thought this video might be interesting. I was wrong.
That's what I thought when I wrote it as well... :-(
7:27 uhhhh it was literally on my CZcams recommendation. 😭😳🫥
Same.
Ha, thats great! :-)