Bowie knives can also be used to skin animals, spread peanut butter, cut apples, free tangled horses, (hopefully not that order) and a host of other practical things. Bowie knives are work blades, not just fighting knives.
Very true, but it did originate as a fighting knife. Just so happens to be extremely useful, and it caught on after Jim Bowie tore a bunch of people up with it.
Adamast Half a year late, anyways, a cane sword usually is a poor choice for self defense. They're usually to flexible to effectively pierce, and obviously their cutting ability is essentially non-existent. Even if they're stiff, the wound they usually leave is enough to kill, but very slowly. The attacker would most likely still be able to fight on. Fun fact, most teachers/fencing masters worth their salt actually advocated for "loaded" sticks. Essentially a cane with either shot, or iron/steel bars at the end.
@Adrian Rook Actually, the original Bowie knife was a hunting blade with an oversized guard designed by Jim's brother Rezin after he sliced his fingers skinning a rabbit. It also made for a terrific fighting knife.
There are of course different kinds of Bowie knives also. The one you hold is very wide and relatively unpointy. A knife like the Bill Bagwell Hell's Belle is a lot more tapered and perhaps better suited for thrusting through armor.
This has been stated earlier. The traditional bowie knife for the Americas was primarily a hunting knife. The real American equivalent to the rondel dagger was the Arkansas Toothpick which was used by Trappers and Civil war soldiers.
I was reading that these kinds of choices may have influenced seax design as the knife also had to work in and around camp, for cooking, and for hunting. Thus some are clearly meant as an attempt at being an all around blade. Iron Badger has made some very nice models, and Therion Arms have carried some nice blades too.
If we're talking pure mechanics, I would go for the rondel, but I feel like if you pulled that massive, gnarly-looking bowie out it would make your attacker hesitate at least, and give you an edge via intimidation.
It's best not to reveal that you're carrying a knife until after you're sure that our opponent has drawn theirs. Knives are best used in strikes that an opponent can't see coming.
Hey Matt, could you please do a video on medieval infantry formations(melee infantry). I know the pike square, shieldwall, wedge and just the general lines...but I feel like there has to be a lot more. Thanks!
In theory, the Bowie knife should be able to get through mail armor as easily as the rondel. It won't go in as far unopposed as the rondel, but the Bowie has a sharp tip, which then enlarges quickly. Any amount of force should shatter a mail ring easily. I'd like to see a test between the two knives to see if this is possible.
If the bowie had a more narrow blade it may be different, plus a sharpened clip more mid spine, that looks more a combat survival utility bowie rather than a purpose built fighter like the bagwell Bowie's or even sharpened back edge Laredo or cold steel Natchez
I prefer that particular dagger, I never saw something like that before, is long enough to keep distance in a fighting situation, a single puncture of that anywhere in the chest (for example) will end a fight, it will puncture deeply enough to compromise arteries, organs, etc
Matt, I would also choose the Bowie, but the most memorable time I actually used a knife to "offend" ,as you say, I used a Sykes'Fairbairn in Panama that I'd "inherited" from a very large PDF NCO a couple of days before the event. It worked shockingly well. Dante.
My question to you is as follows: Modern military forces use knives s.a. K-bar / F-S fighting knife / NRS-2ץ These are more like the rondel, than like the bowie. And chosen for your specification. Why is your choice different than military choice?
Thank you for all your videos. I enjoy them immensely. The question I have is would an Arkansas Toothpick be just basically considered a basilard? And an acceptable compromise between the two?
I'd take that particular rondel for a fair woodcraft/survival knife. That thick spine would make it plenty tough for tasks like batonning or brush clearing. I'd still want a smaller carving knife on the side, but still.
Thick knives like that are actually kind of shit for woodcraft. I have a Glock Field knife, essentially a 20th century bullocks knife, and it really sucks at batonning, and it doesn't have the heft for chopping. I'd much rather use my Becker BK-7, which is basically a short modified Bowie similar to the Kabar.
The American fighting Bowie knife was modified from the large Hudson Bay Camp knife that was ubiquitous in north america for a hundred years and was the style of knife Rezin Bowie gifted his younger brother James Bowie. Jim Bowie later commissioned James Black of Old Washington Arkansas to create a fighting knife with a crusada type hand guard affixed to a large Hudson Bay Camp Knife Style blade.
One comment about edge in thrusts. It seems to me, that you consider the edge to be pretty much superficial for thrusting. I think it is quite useful, even on a thin thrusting blade. It cuts as you thrust. Blunt narrow "ice-pick" blade will punch a tiny hole. Even if it hits an artery it may not cut it, just slide alongside and do no real damage. Sharp thrusting blade will cut through an artery and cause a massive bloodloss even if it is quite narrow. I speak from personal experience with butchery. Your bollock dagger is much wider to what most butchers I have seen ever used (and I've seen a few). They keep their knifes sharp. So it's not just penetration which counts. Causing bloodloss through internal trauma is what kills, and for that to happen even a thin blade should be sharp. Now, I'm just thinking about it. A bollock dagger will go in quickly and with little resistance. A bowie knife will not go easily through a cotton shirt, it will require some amount of force behind it to penetrate street clothing. I don't know, but my gut instinct would be to go with a bollock dagger, if razor sharp. Tiny flick and it will cause lots of trauma inside with very little force required. I don't know, but I'd go with a bollock dagger. I have seen what smaller blades can do to a bigger animal. It's capable of killing a human very quickly.
I would go with dagger. also have experience in butchery and hunting... sharp edges make HUGE difference in rate of bloodloss (I even keep back of knives sharp for that reason), also effort needed to penetrate is less.
The elaborate law system intended to reduce the viloence rates. How long are we gonna tolerate these knife attacks on citizens in full plate? We gotta stand up for our rights!
The UK are just about to make it illegal to post someone a knife bought online. Effectively ending the knife industry in the UK. And how many"youths" will this save? 0
Ok, now i can understand your choose, beacause the bowie knive, which you have, is very long. I never saw such a long bowie knive. Every bowie I saw was much smaller. And thats the point why I would prefer the rondell dagger because it is just much longer and in every fight I had, this was very important.
Id heard you mention bollock daggers in another video n thought wtf is that? I realised why as soon as you held it up ha ha, great videos mate, wish I was close enough to attend one of your classes
Don't forget the Arkansas toothpick a very thin style of Bowie that is commonly either double edged or spear pointed with a sharpened upper swedge, also it was very common to sharpen the upper swedge (which is the term we use in Texas to refer to the false edge) that way in a fight one it would aid in penetration, and two give you the ability to preform a back-cut as a Parry.
Those are assertions (about the bowie knife) that I would actually want to see tested before excepting. Which makes me really wish I still had my mailing stand...and that I still had my Bowie.
Me personally, I would choose the dagger, but that’s because it goes with my style and the axe 🪓 .. Each to their own, if I didn’t have the axe 🪓 I would choose the Bowie..
Hi Matt, If you had to consider clothing like winter jackets or shirts worn in layers as an aspect of the context, would you think of the fight in terms of armored combat (armored, albeit, without metal)? I'm thinking about self-defense scenarios that happen out of doors. I am often in bad sections of cities, so I'm curious to know your opinion on these matters.
A Bowie is like a sax -Cinqueda- gladius breed in one like in the Arkansas toothpick style. Matt My Bowies can cut thru several layers of leather even elephant hide on a chop. There is also a backcut on bowie ...... As American it is what I've train with for decades.
The Bowie knife is a utility knife used by real cowboys, i.e. boys that herded cows. It was compromised with a false edge swept point so that it would do okay in case of self defense. Everyday linen, cotton, leather obviously, defeats most of its sting, but against a naked opponent, yes, the Bowie knife makes very big wounds. The fighting version of the Bowie knife is nicknamed "the Arkansas toothpick" and it is a lot slimmer and "stabbier". Check out Thrand and Eldgrim, the protective qualities of regular clothes is much underestimated. Matt is overthinking, take the rondel, hit the vitals, win the fight.
Could you make a video about other modern knives? I was very interested in the so called trench knives like the 1917 and 1918, how do you think they compare to the bowie or medieval knives? I guess they would be really good for really close combat but not so much for a duel with more ample space to move around.
That was good.. Also with the rondel dagger.. the handle lends itself to an ice pick grip or a straight upwards grip.. which wouldn't be as useful in an unarmoured fight as using a bowie knife in the pistol grip with the thumb on top.
Matt, is there any chance you'd do a video on seaxes and how they might have been used? Were they were used more like knives or short swords (considering some were longer than others)? Was a broken back seax effectively like a much earlier bowie in design and use?
Some bowies have a more pronounced cross guard like my Damascus bowie from bobcat knives so it seems to have better parrying properties than the rondel
A Bowie knife would get hung up clothing, ribs, and eye/ear sockets in a thrust which is why the Fairbairn-Sykes knife was developed. How many people actually fought with a Bowie knife? Jim Bowie didn't. He fought one brawl with a straight backed butcher knife and later developed what he thought would be a good fighting knife. Arkansas Toothpicks (like the Rondel dagger), however, were specifically mentioned/banned to prevent dueling. I'll take the pointy one for killing and the wide one for cutting tent pegs and butchering bison.
+Tyrander165 Jim Bowie may have had as many as seventeen different knives in his lifetime. All of which came to be called 'Bowie Knives' even if some technically weren't. Plus in 1831 he may or may not have killed three men who had been hired to kill him with a modified knife courtesy of James Black. I always find it something of an irony that Bowie never made a cent from these knives that were being manufactured both inside and outside the U.S with his name on them during his lifetime.
I recall seeing a test of longsword and katana against padded armor, and it seemed that katana had trouble trusting through it - while longsword's edges cut through the layers of linen, katana had to rip it apart with blunt force on one side. In light of that, I'm really curious if rondel is actually better suited against pure padded armor. I'd test this myself, but I don't really have accurate replicas of either rondel or a more conventional dagger/knife. That said, I don't think there is any question about rondel being far better at penetrating mail or plate, which is what a knight would be mostly concerned with in his side-side-arm.
Would the bollock dagger really be a dagger since it is single edged? That really thick back seems like it would not help with puncturing during a stab
generally speaking there are three types of strokes 1.Thrust-------best instrument an ice pick 2. slice------Best instrument a scimimitar 3. chop----best instrument an axe or tomahawk best compromise a bowie--it will do all three although none of them as well as a specialized weapon
scholagladiatoria How well could you cut with that particular bollock dagger? I know you said its not meant for cutting, but given that the blade was somewhat broad and obviously very stiff (kind of like a katana actually, minus the slight curve!), wouldn't it make quite effective drawing or even hacking cuts at short range? Plus it looks quite heavy for its size given the thickness of the blade, giving it plenty of mass for a decisive cut. I imagine with a properly honed edge it can easily slice open a throat from ear to ear, or cut through a wrist. Thanks!
In your opinion what would be the most versatile knife for battlefield, self defense, and work of all the offerings throughout history and the modern day
Are you sure that clip point bowie tip won't do so great verses armor? I get it won't be as efficient as your rondel dagger, but I feel it would be better than you'd think.
I have a very heavy, thick and robust doubled winter coat that has a kind of canvas cover instead of just the cheap plastic one we see on many other coat. I wonder if it would act like a gambeson if I were to receive a knife hit...
how does a modern Kevlar vest compare to a medival gambison. I also heard something about places in the UK issuing mail to their police these days because people were stabbing thru kevlar.
question about maille: i've just started making maille myself, and it is obviously a time consuming and intricate craft. i was wondering if historically you could get cheaper maille that used bigger links, and thus was easier to pierce but quicker to make, verses more expensive maille that used smaller, less permeable links? it seems obvious that this happened, just curious if you'd come across evidence of it. cheers.
Have you heard of Unified Weapons Master? It's a potential Australian league for weapons fighting with some sci fi suit that calculates hit damage but there's no pain involved. I was wondering what you thought of how to accurately recreate the fear of being harmed without actually harming a person while doing weapons based martial art competitions.
what about the back cut on the clip point of the bowie? The pressure on that point is incredible due to it's design. It's not much different from a messer or falchion, minus a somewhat smaller size.
To be fair, you should mention that the Bowie you present here has a particularly wide and thick tip. (yeah, that's what she said) There are plenty of Bowies that have *much* thinner, pointier tips. Check out some Bagwell Bowies for example.
Would gambesons really be that resistive to stabs? I can see how cuts or chops would be difficult but surely stabbing with a sharp knife would do damage? Of were gambesons less of the thick woolly coat I'm imagining and much more tough?
Got a cheap narrow bladed "Bowie" knife that has a narrow blade that could most likely go either way. I also would not want to have to stop a chop from your Bullock dagger with a bare forearm or even one with a couple of layers of cloth cause it's going to hurt.
Isn't a gambeson analogous to a flac jacket in the premise of it's construction? Around 2003, if I'm remembering correctly, the United States Marine Corps transitioned from the M7 bayonet, which is similar in blade construction to the (basilard?), to the OKC-3S which is similar to the bowie. During MCMAP training, I didn't notice any difference between the two when thrusting into a flac jacket.
The back cut with the Bowie is pretty effective against mail. That slightly curved tip coming in at that angle has tremendous penetrating power. maybe not quite as good as the rondel, but a lot better than most think who haven't tried it. I'm sure you know this, but there are three basic moves or cuts with the Bowie that can be used in almost instantaneous succession, and in practice, at least, are all pretty darned good against an armored opponent. That said, the rondel straight line stabbing ability makes pinpoint accuracy somewhat easier, so it may be easier to use it for stabbing against armor joints, at the eyes, etc. But to be flat out honest, I would not see very confident going against either of these weapons if I were the one wearing mail and wielding a long sword.
I don't know. Also there are so many different shapes of Bowie knives, But I think the less extreme versions are far more versatile, Because a very broad blade tapers to a narrow point which is also sharpened on both ends. Also many Bowie knives particularly from the Southwest have a good deal of hand protection, Ed appear to be made for going up against things like sword canes and butcher knives, Maybe even manipulating the point of a bayonet. Granted I'm a huge fan of Bowie knives, It being the American short sword and all lol, But are the more logical sense I genuinely believe that it's kind of taken the best of both worlds From cutting and thrusting and put it into a package which is both compact and concealable
I know the video is older, but maybe you can answer my question. What Bowie Knive is this? (who made it, where did it come from, what metal is it made of):D
i have a question.i was watching game of thrones, and i noticed that one of the characters was carrying a kukri, which seemed to be his go to weapon in a fight. however most people he fought were heavily armored (plate/mail), how effective would a kukri be in a fight against armored opponents.
SurTurd Furgison Not very good.. The kukri can stab, but it's not very well set up for it, and cutting at armour with a knife will not achieve very much unless you have an exposed part (eg. they don't have a helmet on).
I think you're referring to Bronn, the sellsword working for Tyrion. He always seemed to reach for his kukri (which is on his belt at the small of his back) when he was expecting trouble and might need to attack someone quickly (and in very close combat). Perhaps he was confident he could get in close and into a gap? However, in most of his actual fights, he uses his sword.
Well it's not armor penetrating weapon if that's what you ask, however, skilled cutthoat like Bronn (what an awesome character btw) could probably stab you in an eye or a groin with it if he got the chance ; )
In the context of film/tv fights, it would be very effective since the effectiveness of weapons is determined largely by their cool-factor and armour almost never saves anyone. In real life, it wouldn't be particularly good.
I got a bowie knife, it is a good utility knife. I have not fight anyone so far, so I prefer a knife that can cut bread and cheese and tomatoes:) And maybe some sticks for fire...
Sort of lost in this video. A Bowie would never have fought an armoured opponent as it was designed in 1830 unless someone had a go at Ned Kelly with one. I completely agree that it is based on an earlier idea however it is the ultimate expression of that cutting fighting knife idea. For this comparison to make sense you would need to compare a Fairbairn Sykes. ie the ultimate expression of a stabbing dagger fighting knife. I do agree with another poster that the massive problem is that a picture or drawing cannot explain how a technique works. If anyone doubts this look up the Judo throw Uchi Mata in pictures. Until we invent the holodeck we may never know what worked and what did not.
I wonder, generally speaking, how much force is needed to burst a ring in riveted mail with a piercing weapon. I've heard a bodkin arrow was capable, as was a dedicated spear thrust, but I am not sure of what the minimum force necessary to pierce through the mail is.
scholagladiatoria Thanks. Although I'd have called the Bowie and 18th century Sax myself, lol. I was hoping for a bit more than that though. Maybe a comparrison of the two, and why you think the Sax went out of fashion. As I've seen a few pictures of examples that were quite stabby in design.
Badger0fDeath Using that argument you would be correct. But there were of course, several different designs of Seax. From an "almost sheepsfoot " through a longish Wharncliffe, to the broken back design, and almost everything inbetween, lol. I was thinking of the broken back design tbh, which is a lot wider than a Bollock dagger. My fault, I should have been more specific :)
I would personally choose the bowie in almost all cases, mail rarely covers appendages adequately, a bowie will sever any of these appendages in a single power chop (arm fully severed, leg partially severed), oh I just lost an arm...bleed to death in less then a minute. These sort of questions are usually posed by those that are relatively naive of the subject, in today's context (an unarmoured situation, which I am amusing the OP is concerned with) real people who carry blades for self defense daily (mainly in certain area's of America, those I correspond with constantly) carry large "bowie" style blade because they work in this sort of situation. The bowie is designed to be used in a unarmoured adversary fight, question answered.(power chop, power slash, back cut, stab in ice pick or hammer position, those that train in "real knife fighting" (Kali Eskrima is IMHO the premier choice for such training) will choose knives that "work" in real life. Knife fighting is all about blood loss (unless one is stabbed through the heart or brain, which usually ends the fight straight away). Don't look to those that live in places like England for this sort of thing, they have had a hoplophobic government entrenched for decades and their civilians (they are no longer citizens of a free democracy) are well suppressed and cowed. One last thought, there are no "winners" in a real life knife fight, one of those involved goes to the morgue, the other goes to the intensive care unit of the local Trauma center. This is the reality of these sort of discussions.
1. Curious how often you chop through arms to confirm your statement. 2. The bowie knife is a great fighting knife, no doubt, but the knife's greatest selling point is that it's also a very effective tool for woodwork and "bushcraft." Its versatility is its strength. The blade's legendary heritage (from the original bowie to the WW2 Ka-Bar) also makes it popular in America. 3. Nice job calling Matt Easton a suppressed, cowed, and weapon-phobic "furriner." Yeah, Brits and Europeans have no idea how to fight or use weapons, civilian or otherwise. Idiot troll. 4. Your last statement, at the very least, I think everyone can agree on.
dajolaw I wasn't going to lower myself to respond to you asinine post.(don't worry you can Google the big words). I wasn't trolling, and don't appreciate being called such. I would also state that resorting to name calling proves who is the idiot. For the record I have tested large chopping knives in the field over a life time (at least 30 odd years, I started hunting at age 12), and I can assure you I could sever a mans unarmoured arm with say my TOPS Power Eagle or Cold Steel san maiIII Trail Master in a single swing. One would also only have to watch some of the Proof testing at ColdSteel to see what a large bowie style knife can do, chopping wise (on things like a pigs leg) As to your third point, the English Government has a dreadful record in regards to restricting personal freedoms concerning all types of weapons (both firearms and edged tools) as well as having a strong anti-self defense stance, and my statement was mainly directed at the English Government rather then, as you suggest, directed at Matt . The British people allowed this to happen, so I stand by what I said. I would also pose that, yes, the vast majority of British civilians would be hoplophobic and the skills concerning martial tool use is a dying art form all across England. (BTW hoplophobic doesn't mean "weapons phobic", rather "the unreasonable fear of weapons"). Don't bother to respond, I am not interested in wasting time more of my time on this.
I have a question, how easy or common is for a blade to stack on an opponment's body? i want to make a video about it but i am too busy these days... my opinion is that a blade can easily get stack on human ribs but there are many other factors, like what type of armor the victim wears or if he is carrying stuf on him, like a back pack or a pouch with his supplies.
Think you mean stuck. And it is actually not that easy for a weapon to get stuck inside a person. Ribs split very easily and wont keep a blade in place at all. It might get stuck in armor though.
I know we are taking it almost as a given that the rondel dagger can burst links and 'pierce' mail. That being said, I would love to see you do some 'puncture' tests using daggers vs *riveted* mail. (Butted mail is a joke, easily burst, as we all know). I've seen some interesting videos of people attempting to thrust various sharp instruments through riveted mail and being completely unable to 'burst' the rivets. If you could manage the feat (or not) with a rondel dagger, I think it would be a great for giving us a more realistic appreciation of how various armors hold up against various weapons in live tests today.
The advantage of the rondel dagger is that it can essentially be used as a chisel. A thrust wouldn't pierce it, but if enough force was applied to the pommel it could likely pierce it.
The answer is obvious. The Rondel is better at penetration, it's faster, sleeker. If the person isn't fighting back, I'd take a Bowie. But chances are, anyone you're up against is going to be going at you fast and furious. You have to swing a Bowie, but the Rondel is faster. The Rodel is more likely to get through and it's heavy enough to take strikes.
The design of the Bowie knife also also allows it to be more useful for practical purposes aside from combat.
Bowie knives can also be used to skin animals, spread peanut butter, cut apples, free tangled horses, (hopefully not that order) and a host of other practical things.
Bowie knives are work blades, not just fighting knives.
Very true, but it did originate as a fighting knife. Just so happens to be extremely useful, and it caught on after Jim Bowie tore a bunch of people up with it.
Pistols butts are also useful as you can bludgeon Jim Bowie with it, or cane swords. His fame is more his ability to survive and stab after.
Adamast Half a year late, anyways, a cane sword usually is a poor choice for self defense. They're usually to flexible to effectively pierce, and obviously their cutting ability is essentially non-existent. Even if they're stiff, the wound they usually leave is enough to kill, but very slowly. The attacker would most likely still be able to fight on. Fun fact, most teachers/fencing masters worth their salt actually advocated for "loaded" sticks. Essentially a cane with either shot, or iron/steel bars at the end.
@Adrian Rook
Actually, the original Bowie knife was a hunting blade with an oversized guard designed by Jim's brother Rezin after he sliced his fingers skinning a rabbit. It also made for a terrific fighting knife.
I have personally used one as spatula when cooking on a camp. I have used it to chop kindling, I used it to debark logs and as a kind of spade.
That's not a knife.... Oh, wait, that is a knife.
You should do a test , Bowie vs bollocks dagger vs gambeson. I would really enjoy seeing how they both would do .
Bollock dagger was called a "kidney" dagger in Poland...Just a info... Cheers!
There are of course different kinds of Bowie knives also. The one you hold is very wide and relatively unpointy. A knife like the Bill Bagwell Hell's Belle is a lot more tapered and perhaps better suited for thrusting through armor.
This has been stated earlier. The traditional bowie knife for the Americas was primarily a hunting knife. The real American equivalent to the rondel dagger was the Arkansas Toothpick which was used by Trappers and Civil war soldiers.
I was reading that these kinds of choices may have influenced seax design as the knife also had to work in and around camp, for cooking, and for hunting. Thus some are clearly meant as an attempt at being an all around blade. Iron Badger has made some very nice models, and Therion Arms have carried some nice blades too.
If we're talking pure mechanics, I would go for the rondel, but I feel like if you pulled that massive, gnarly-looking bowie out it would make your attacker hesitate at least, and give you an edge via intimidation.
It's best not to reveal that you're carrying a knife until after you're sure that our opponent has drawn theirs. Knives are best used in strikes that an opponent can't see coming.
Hey Matt, could you please do a video on medieval infantry formations(melee infantry). I know the pike square, shieldwall, wedge and just the general lines...but I feel like there has to be a lot more. Thanks!
In theory, the Bowie knife should be able to get through mail armor as easily as the rondel. It won't go in as far unopposed as the rondel, but the Bowie has a sharp tip, which then enlarges quickly. Any amount of force should shatter a mail ring easily. I'd like to see a test between the two knives to see if this is possible.
If the bowie had a more narrow blade it may be different, plus a sharpened clip more mid spine, that looks more a combat survival utility bowie rather than a purpose built fighter like the bagwell Bowie's or even sharpened back edge Laredo or cold steel Natchez
I prefer that particular dagger, I never saw something like that before, is long enough to keep distance in a fighting situation, a single puncture of that anywhere in the chest (for example) will end a fight, it will puncture deeply enough to compromise arteries, organs, etc
Matt, I would also choose the Bowie, but the most memorable time I actually used a knife to "offend" ,as you say, I used a Sykes'Fairbairn in Panama that I'd "inherited" from a very large PDF NCO a couple of days before the event. It worked shockingly well. Dante.
My question to you is as follows:
Modern military forces use knives s.a. K-bar / F-S fighting knife / NRS-2ץ These are more like the rondel, than like the bowie. And chosen for your specification.
Why is your choice different than military choice?
Those military forces may have been choosing the cheaper option, rather than the most effective one. Matt was only discussing effectiveness here.
A straight clip bowie with a sharpened swedge can stab pretty well.
Thank you for all your videos. I enjoy them immensely. The question I have is would an Arkansas Toothpick be just basically considered a basilard? And an acceptable compromise between the two?
I'd take that particular rondel for a fair woodcraft/survival knife. That thick spine would make it plenty tough for tasks like batonning or brush clearing. I'd still want a smaller carving knife on the side, but still.
Thick knives like that are actually kind of shit for woodcraft. I have a Glock Field knife, essentially a 20th century bullocks knife, and it really sucks at batonning, and it doesn't have the heft for chopping. I'd much rather use my Becker BK-7, which is basically a short modified Bowie similar to the Kabar.
The rondel reminds me of the CRKT Hisshou. Interesting stuff!
Amazing video... Super interesting the information you gave, and also your point of view...
The American fighting Bowie knife was modified from the large Hudson Bay Camp knife that was ubiquitous in north america for a hundred years and was the style of knife Rezin Bowie gifted his younger brother James Bowie. Jim Bowie later commissioned James Black of Old Washington Arkansas to create a fighting knife with a crusada type hand guard affixed to a large Hudson Bay Camp Knife Style blade.
One comment about edge in thrusts. It seems to me, that you consider the edge to be pretty much superficial for thrusting. I think it is quite useful, even on a thin thrusting blade. It cuts as you thrust.
Blunt narrow "ice-pick" blade will punch a tiny hole. Even if it hits an artery it may not cut it, just slide alongside and do no real damage. Sharp thrusting blade will cut through an artery and cause a massive bloodloss even if it is quite narrow.
I speak from personal experience with butchery. Your bollock dagger is much wider to what most butchers I have seen ever used (and I've seen a few). They keep their knifes sharp.
So it's not just penetration which counts. Causing bloodloss through internal trauma is what kills, and for that to happen even a thin blade should be sharp.
Now, I'm just thinking about it. A bollock dagger will go in quickly and with little resistance. A bowie knife will not go easily through a cotton shirt, it will require some amount of force behind it to penetrate street clothing. I don't know, but my gut instinct would be to go with a bollock dagger, if razor sharp. Tiny flick and it will cause lots of trauma inside with very little force required.
I don't know, but I'd go with a bollock dagger. I have seen what smaller blades can do to a bigger animal. It's capable of killing a human very quickly.
I would go with dagger.
also have experience in butchery and hunting... sharp edges make HUGE difference in rate of bloodloss (I even keep back of knives sharp for that reason), also effort needed to penetrate is less.
matt can you do a video specifically discussing gambesons? there is much ignorance on the subject
If you live in Australia, the decision is easy. Rondel daggers require a permit to import, bowie knives do not.
it sux to live in country with cold steel weapons legislation ...
wish you luck in future to overrule that
*****
Don't encourage the nanny-state idiots. :P
The elaborate law system intended to reduce the viloence rates. How long are we gonna tolerate these knife attacks on citizens in full plate? We gotta stand up for our rights!
The UK are just about to make it illegal to post someone a knife bought online. Effectively ending the knife industry in the UK.
And how many"youths" will this save? 0
Ok, now i can understand your choose, beacause the bowie knive, which you have, is very long.
I never saw such a long bowie knive. Every bowie I saw was much smaller. And thats the point why I would prefer the rondell dagger because it is just much longer and in every fight I had, this was very important.
Id heard you mention bollock daggers in another video n thought wtf is that? I realised why as soon as you held it up ha ha, great videos mate, wish I was close enough to attend one of your classes
daggers are quick and can stab. bowies are heavier, but can slash very deeply with the back cut.
Don't forget the Arkansas toothpick a very thin style of Bowie that is commonly either double edged or spear pointed with a sharpened upper swedge, also it was very common to sharpen the upper swedge (which is the term we use in Texas to refer to the false edge) that way in a fight one it would aid in penetration, and two give you the ability to preform a back-cut as a Parry.
I think the Bowie would be more useful all around as tool for living, besides it's use as a weapon.
Those are assertions (about the bowie knife) that I would actually want to see tested before excepting.
Which makes me really wish I still had my mailing stand...and that I still had my Bowie.
Is there any chance that you could do a review of Tod Cutler’s Bowie Knife?
Me personally, I would choose the dagger, but that’s because it goes with my style and the axe 🪓 .. Each to their own, if I didn’t have the axe 🪓 I would choose the Bowie..
How would the quillion dagger fit in? I assume that with a blade very much like that of the baselard, it would fill a similar compromise role.
Hi Matt,
If you had to consider clothing like winter jackets or shirts worn in layers as an aspect of the context, would you think of the fight in terms of armored combat (armored, albeit, without metal)? I'm thinking about self-defense scenarios that happen out of doors. I am often in bad sections of cities, so I'm curious to know your opinion on these matters.
A Bowie is like a sax -Cinqueda- gladius breed in one like in the Arkansas toothpick style. Matt My Bowies can cut thru several layers of leather even elephant hide on a chop. There is also a backcut on bowie ...... As American it is what I've train with for decades.
The Bowie knife is a utility knife used by real cowboys, i.e. boys that herded cows. It was compromised with a false edge swept point so that it would do okay in case of self defense. Everyday linen, cotton, leather obviously, defeats most of its sting, but against a naked opponent, yes, the Bowie knife makes very big wounds.
The fighting version of the Bowie knife is nicknamed "the Arkansas toothpick" and it is a lot slimmer and "stabbier". Check out Thrand and Eldgrim, the protective qualities of regular clothes is much underestimated. Matt is overthinking, take the rondel, hit the vitals, win the fight.
Thanks for the video. I'm curious if you have any experience and opinion about the Fairbairn smatchet.
The windlass Lakonia is less expensive, a little larger and can be blued to subdue it's shine.
Could you make a video about other modern knives? I was very interested in the so called trench knives like the 1917 and 1918, how do you think they compare to the bowie or medieval knives? I guess they would be really good for really close combat but not so much for a duel with more ample space to move around.
You did indeed pronounce "Bauglir" correctly, Matt ;)
many bowies are/were just as pointy as that dagger. eg natchez bowie. that dagger is nice man. and def tge weapon forr finishing another knight.
That was good.. Also with the rondel dagger.. the handle lends itself to an ice pick grip or a straight upwards grip.. which wouldn't be as useful in an unarmoured fight as using a bowie knife in the pistol grip with the thumb on top.
That's a nice looking bowie
I prefer a Modernized Persian Dagger, nonetheless...both are great!
where did you get the middle sabre behind you?
Matt, is there any chance you'd do a video on seaxes and how they might have been used? Were they were used more like knives or short swords (considering some were longer than others)? Was a broken back seax effectively like a much earlier bowie in design and use?
AllaMortify Yes, I'll do a video about this - I recently found a sax that I had forgotten I had!
Some bowies have a more pronounced cross guard like my Damascus bowie from bobcat knives so it seems to have better parrying properties than the rondel
But what if you use the biwie knive for slicing and thrusting exposed aries
How about winter clothing like wool coat and few cloth layers under that?
Were a Bowie sufficiently narrow-bladed, would the clip point stand in vs maille, relative to the rondel?
A Bowie knife would get hung up clothing, ribs, and eye/ear sockets in a thrust which is why the Fairbairn-Sykes knife was developed. How many people actually fought with a Bowie knife? Jim Bowie didn't. He fought one brawl with a straight backed butcher knife and later developed what he thought would be a good fighting knife. Arkansas Toothpicks (like the Rondel dagger), however, were specifically mentioned/banned to prevent dueling. I'll take the pointy one for killing and the wide one for cutting tent pegs and butchering bison.
+Tyrander165 Jim Bowie may have had as many as seventeen different knives in his lifetime.
All of which came to be called 'Bowie Knives' even if some technically weren't.
Plus in 1831 he may or may not have killed three men who had been hired to kill him with a modified knife courtesy of James Black.
I always find it something of an irony that Bowie never made a cent from these knives that were being manufactured both inside and outside the U.S with his name on them during his lifetime.
How would you say the bollock/rondel compares to say a modern Fairbairn Sykes knife, since we're comparing weapons from different eras?
I recall seeing a test of longsword and katana against padded armor, and it seemed that katana had trouble trusting through it - while longsword's edges cut through the layers of linen, katana had to rip it apart with blunt force on one side. In light of that, I'm really curious if rondel is actually better suited against pure padded armor. I'd test this myself, but I don't really have accurate replicas of either rondel or a more conventional dagger/knife.
That said, I don't think there is any question about rondel being far better at penetrating mail or plate, which is what a knight would be mostly concerned with in his side-side-arm.
Would the bollock dagger really be a dagger since it is single edged? That really thick back seems like it would not help with puncturing during a stab
Would a rondel dagger be effective against modern armor?
What is your opinion on the U.S. 1850 cavalry saber and the U.S. 1860 cavalry saber ?
generally speaking there are three types of strokes
1.Thrust-------best instrument an ice pick
2. slice------Best instrument a scimimitar
3. chop----best instrument an axe or tomahawk
best compromise a bowie--it will do all three although none of them as well as a specialized weapon
Even in armed combat am going with the bowie because it something I know how to use more than the other knife
scholagladiatoria
How well could you cut with that particular bollock dagger? I know you said its not meant for cutting, but given that the blade was somewhat broad and obviously very stiff (kind of like a katana actually, minus the slight curve!), wouldn't it make quite effective drawing or even hacking cuts at short range? Plus it looks quite heavy for its size given the thickness of the blade, giving it plenty of mass for a decisive cut. I imagine with a properly honed edge it can easily slice open a throat from ear to ear, or cut through a wrist. Thanks!
In your opinion what would be the most versatile knife for battlefield, self defense, and work of all the offerings throughout history and the modern day
How would a dirk work? Is a dirk good at cut and thrust?
I just realized that you bowie knife is HUGE.
If you know what I mean...
xD xD
That's not a knife, THIS is a knife. Crocodile Dundee anyone.
Vyce Bozeck The simpsons anyone x)
I can't find a good dirk review. I would like to see the dagger, dirk and sword reference on camera. Or just dirk to large knife or dirk to sword.
Bowie !!! :)
BOWIE KNIFE ALL THE WAY
Are you sure that clip point bowie tip won't do so great verses armor? I get it won't be as efficient as your rondel dagger, but I feel it would be better than you'd think.
I have a very heavy, thick and robust doubled winter coat that has a kind of canvas cover instead of just the cheap plastic one we see on many other coat. I wonder if it would act like a gambeson if I were to receive a knife hit...
The clip point on a Bowie looks really cool, but why? Does it serve any functional purpose?
Hello. Where to buy this rondel dagger? It's beautiful!
I would rather have the bowie too, but that one is a little wide, big and heavy for my taste.
how does a modern Kevlar vest compare to a medival gambison. I also heard something about places in the UK issuing mail to their police these days because people were stabbing thru kevlar.
Josiah Barnett British police wear stab vests over their kevlar. To my knowledge, kevlar doesn't stop stabs at all, only cuts.
What about stab proof vests?
question about maille: i've just started making maille myself, and it is obviously a time consuming and intricate craft. i was wondering if historically you could get cheaper maille that used bigger links, and thus was easier to pierce but quicker to make, verses more expensive maille that used smaller, less permeable links? it seems obvious that this happened, just curious if you'd come across evidence of it. cheers.
Have you heard of Unified Weapons Master? It's a potential Australian league for weapons fighting with some sci fi suit that calculates hit damage but there's no pain involved. I was wondering what you thought of how to accurately recreate the fear of being harmed without actually harming a person while doing weapons based martial art competitions.
what about the back cut on the clip point of the bowie? The pressure on that point is incredible due to it's design. It's not much different from a messer or falchion, minus a somewhat smaller size.
To be fair, you should mention that the Bowie you present here has a particularly wide and thick tip. (yeah, that's what she said)
There are plenty of Bowies that have *much* thinner, pointier tips. Check out some Bagwell Bowies for example.
Would gambesons really be that resistive to stabs? I can see how cuts or chops would be difficult but surely stabbing with a sharp knife would do damage? Of were gambesons less of the thick woolly coat I'm imagining and much more tough?
Got a cheap narrow bladed "Bowie" knife that has a narrow blade that could most likely go either way. I also would not want to have to stop a chop from your Bullock dagger with a bare forearm or even one with a couple of layers of cloth cause it's going to hurt.
Isn't a gambeson analogous to a flac jacket in the premise of it's construction? Around 2003, if I'm remembering correctly, the United States Marine Corps transitioned from the M7 bayonet, which is similar in blade construction to the (basilard?), to the OKC-3S which is similar to the bowie. During MCMAP training, I didn't notice any difference between the two when thrusting into a flac jacket.
The back cut with the Bowie is pretty effective against mail. That slightly curved tip coming in at that angle has tremendous penetrating power. maybe not quite as good as the rondel, but a lot better than most think who haven't tried it. I'm sure you know this, but there are three basic moves or cuts with the Bowie that can be used in almost instantaneous succession, and in practice, at least, are all pretty darned good against an armored opponent. That said, the rondel straight line stabbing ability makes pinpoint accuracy somewhat easier, so it may be easier to use it for stabbing against armor joints, at the eyes, etc. But to be flat out honest, I would not see very confident going against either of these weapons if I were the one wearing mail and wielding a long sword.
Where did you get your bollock dagger?
I don't know. Also there are so many different shapes of Bowie knives, But I think the less extreme versions are far more versatile, Because a very broad blade tapers to a narrow point which is also sharpened on both ends. Also many Bowie knives particularly from the Southwest have a good deal of hand protection, Ed appear to be made for going up against things like sword canes and butcher knives, Maybe even manipulating the point of a bayonet. Granted I'm a huge fan of Bowie knives, It being the American short sword and all lol, But are the more logical sense I genuinely believe that it's kind of taken the best of both worlds From cutting and thrusting and put it into a package which is both compact and concealable
I know the video is older, but maybe you can answer my question. What Bowie Knive is this? (who made it, where did it come from, what metal is it made of):D
i have a question.i was watching game of thrones, and i noticed that one of the characters was carrying a kukri, which seemed to be his go to weapon in a fight. however most people he fought were heavily armored (plate/mail), how effective would a kukri be in a fight against armored opponents.
SurTurd Furgison Not very good.. The kukri can stab, but it's not very well set up for it, and cutting at armour with a knife will not achieve very much unless you have an exposed part (eg. they don't have a helmet on).
I think you're referring to Bronn, the sellsword working for Tyrion. He always seemed to reach for his kukri (which is on his belt at the small of his back) when he was expecting trouble and might need to attack someone quickly (and in very close combat). Perhaps he was confident he could get in close and into a gap? However, in most of his actual fights, he uses his sword.
Bruhmm2112 braun*
Well it's not armor penetrating weapon if that's what you ask, however, skilled cutthoat like Bronn (what an awesome character btw) could probably stab you in an eye or a groin with it if he got the chance ; )
In the context of film/tv fights, it would be very effective since the effectiveness of weapons is determined largely by their cool-factor and armour almost never saves anyone. In real life, it wouldn't be particularly good.
I got a bowie knife, it is a good utility knife. I have not fight anyone so far, so I prefer a knife that can cut bread and cheese and tomatoes:) And maybe some sticks for fire...
Sort of lost in this video.
A Bowie would never have fought an armoured opponent as it was designed in 1830 unless someone had a go at Ned Kelly with one. I completely agree that it is based on an earlier idea however it is the ultimate expression of that cutting fighting knife idea.
For this comparison to make sense you would need to compare a Fairbairn Sykes. ie the ultimate expression of a stabbing dagger fighting knife.
I do agree with another poster that the massive problem is that a picture or drawing cannot explain how a technique works. If anyone doubts this look up the Judo throw Uchi Mata in pictures.
Until we invent the holodeck we may never know what worked and what did not.
I wonder, generally speaking, how much force is needed to burst a ring in riveted mail with a piercing weapon. I've heard a bodkin arrow was capable, as was a dedicated spear thrust, but I am not sure of what the minimum force necessary to pierce through the mail is.
That was interesting. Could you tell us your views / opinon on the Sax (seax) ?
Sure - it's basically a dark age Bowie. There :-)
scholagladiatoria Thanks. Although I'd have called the Bowie and 18th century Sax myself, lol. I was hoping for a bit more than that though. Maybe a comparrison of the two, and why you think the Sax went out of fashion. As I've seen a few pictures of examples that were quite stabby in design.
I was actually going to ask about that too!
Badger0fDeath Using that argument you would be correct. But there were of course, several different designs of Seax. From an "almost sheepsfoot " through a longish Wharncliffe, to the broken back design, and almost everything inbetween, lol. I was thinking of the broken back design tbh, which is a lot wider than a Bollock dagger. My fault, I should have been more specific :)
I would personally choose the bowie in almost all cases, mail rarely covers appendages adequately, a bowie will sever any of these appendages in a single power chop (arm fully severed, leg partially severed), oh I just lost an arm...bleed to death in less then a minute. These sort of questions are usually posed by those that are relatively naive of the subject, in today's context (an unarmoured situation, which I am amusing the OP is concerned with) real people who carry blades for self defense daily (mainly in certain area's of America, those I correspond with constantly) carry large "bowie" style blade because they work in this sort of situation. The bowie is designed to be used in a unarmoured adversary fight, question answered.(power chop, power slash, back cut, stab in ice pick or hammer position, those that train in "real knife fighting" (Kali Eskrima is IMHO the premier choice for such training) will choose knives that "work" in real life. Knife fighting is all about blood loss (unless one is stabbed through the heart or brain, which usually ends the fight straight away).
Don't look to those that live in places like England for this sort of thing, they have had a hoplophobic government entrenched for decades and their civilians (they are no longer citizens of a free democracy) are well suppressed and cowed.
One last thought, there are no "winners" in a real life knife fight, one of those involved goes to the morgue, the other goes to the intensive care unit of the local Trauma center. This is the reality of these sort of discussions.
1. Curious how often you chop through arms to confirm your statement.
2. The bowie knife is a great fighting knife, no doubt, but the knife's greatest selling point is that it's also a very effective tool for woodwork and "bushcraft." Its versatility is its strength. The blade's legendary heritage (from the original bowie to the WW2 Ka-Bar) also makes it popular in America.
3. Nice job calling Matt Easton a suppressed, cowed, and weapon-phobic "furriner." Yeah, Brits and Europeans have no idea how to fight or use weapons, civilian or otherwise. Idiot troll.
4. Your last statement, at the very least, I think everyone can agree on.
dajolaw I wasn't going to lower myself to respond to you asinine post.(don't worry you can Google the big words). I wasn't trolling, and don't appreciate being called such. I would also state that resorting to name calling proves who is the idiot.
For the record I have tested large chopping knives in the field over a life time (at least 30 odd years, I started hunting at age 12), and I can assure you I could sever a mans unarmoured arm with say my TOPS Power Eagle or Cold Steel san maiIII Trail Master in a single swing.
One would also only have to watch some of the Proof testing at ColdSteel to see what a large bowie style knife can do, chopping wise (on things like a pigs leg)
As to your third point, the English Government has a dreadful record in regards to restricting personal freedoms concerning all types of weapons (both firearms and edged tools) as well as having a strong anti-self defense stance, and my statement was mainly directed at the English Government rather then, as you suggest, directed at Matt . The British people allowed this to happen, so I stand by what I said. I would also pose that, yes, the vast majority of British civilians would be hoplophobic and the skills concerning martial tool use is a dying art form all across England. (BTW hoplophobic doesn't mean "weapons phobic", rather "the unreasonable fear of weapons").
Don't bother to respond, I am not interested in wasting time more of my time on this.
That's a freaken monster knife.
How about Bowie knife vs Dirk?
Depends on skill and purpose imo
Down under knifes the outback bowie , end the boker swiss dagger are the best daggers my opinion i have both for same price like 270euro
I have a question, how easy or common is for a blade to stack on an opponment's body? i want to make a video about it but i am too busy these days... my opinion is that a blade can easily get stack on human ribs but there are many other factors, like what type of armor the victim wears or if he is carrying stuf on him, like a back pack or a pouch with his supplies.
I love it when people use the word victim instead of opponent xD
Think you mean stuck. And it is actually not that easy for a weapon to get stuck inside a person. Ribs split very easily and wont keep a blade in place at all. It might get stuck in armor though.
In the contest of an unarmoured fight in a narrow ally, would you prefer boxers or briefs?
They both will do good but I would take the dagger 🗡️ especially it it's that thick and long for reach 🗡️🎯
that daggers blade looks alot like my hanwie raptor tanto.. but simular purposes I guess
I know we are taking it almost as a given that the rondel dagger can burst links and 'pierce' mail. That being said, I would love to see you do some 'puncture' tests using daggers vs *riveted* mail. (Butted mail is a joke, easily burst, as we all know). I've seen some interesting videos of people attempting to thrust various sharp instruments through riveted mail and being completely unable to 'burst' the rivets. If you could manage the feat (or not) with a rondel dagger, I think it would be a great for giving us a more realistic appreciation of how various armors hold up against various weapons in live tests today.
The advantage of the rondel dagger is that it can essentially be used as a chisel. A thrust wouldn't pierce it, but if enough force was applied to the pommel it could likely pierce it.
Joe Martyn
the pommel is made of force. you needn't apply more.
The answer is obvious. The Rondel is better at penetration, it's faster, sleeker. If the person isn't fighting back, I'd take a Bowie. But chances are, anyone you're up against is going to be going at you fast and furious. You have to swing a Bowie, but the Rondel is faster. The Rodel is more likely to get through and it's heavy enough to take strikes.
Nice large bowie. Who makes it?
Hi
I'm fron Brasil and I would like to know how much a knife like this model please
in a life and death situation penetrating strikes are more important than cutting i would take the rondel anyday over the bowie
I'd take my tanto or khukri both good cutters and decent stabbers
Gabe En so take a knife that is designed to stab vs a knife designed to fight