Mapping and Route Planning for Adventure Bike Riders - Part 2
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- čas přidán 22. 12. 2022
- Part 2 in this 4-part series. In this video we look at exporting gpx files from Gaia, GPS fundamentals, and setting up your GPS properly.
Garmin's Support videos on connecting your Zumo XT
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Thank you Brent. This is *exactly* what I needed. The whole Waypoints, Tracks and Routes thing was making me crazy. But once you understand the terms and what they're used for it all starts to make sense.
Brilliant explanation and tutorial, Brent, you are really nailing this. I have wasted so much time in the past with other people's attempts to do this that just weren't on my wavelength. Actually bought a Garmin a few years ago but took it back for a full refund because I couldn't get it to do what I wanted - says more about me than the Garmin! You have convinced me of the superiority of Gaia (compared to OsmAndMaps). Looking forward to Parts 3 and 4. Enjoy Christmas🕊
Hey Ernie, I'm glad you are finding the tutorial useful. I enjoy sharing what I've learnt with us and I enjoy the challenge of thinking through the best way of doing this.
Have a great Xmas and NY.
BP
Great content, Brent. I bought the Zumo XT a month ago, and this will help a lot. Looking forward to the next video in the series.
I'm reasonably comfortable with Basecamp but Gaia I hadn't seen and its impressive. I have already picked up a few tips on basecamp as well so looking forward to the next video!
Great series so far Brent! As always, your contribution to this community is top drawer. I hope you have very Merry Christmas with your family. It looks like the weather is very nice in Sydney right now so hopefully your New Years ride is awesome. We'll see you in 23.
Thanks James, yes, it's a stunning Xmas day here. Perfect weather... About to head out for a little ride with my boys as we are down in Southern Highlands at my Sister's property and she borders on some State Forest.
have a great Xmas, hopefully you are staying warm.
Thanks Brent. Have a great Christmas. See you on the trail.
Thanks, you too!
Lots of great insights Brent, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Well done with a complex (to me anyway) subject. I have a Montana 700i that I had no idea how to use, so your video's have been a great help.
Great follow up mate have a great Christmas
Thanks Maccas, you too.
Thanks Brent, love your work and this series of videos is a great help! Cheers
Nicely done, look forward to the next one
Interesting to watch you play with the Zumo XT. Pity the screen is compromised by the big green banner. I had one for a bit and preferred the Montana for ‘follow the pink line’ work.
One plug for a Garmin, I use Montana 650T/680T devices, is reliability. They are pretty bullet proof. Even though the Montana is on the small side (those needing reading glasses beware) it does have good maps and you can find your way despite looking through the small window. Vibration. Mud. Water. Mine are direct bar mounted and still go. My oldest one is coming up to seven years old. Enduro bike. Pushbike. ADV bike. Go everywhere and always my relied up device.
Thanks so much for all the great info!
Very good. Keeping the track on the map, in a different color is a very good idea. Have found in the back country ie TAT, BDR, etc. routes do not work as the Garmin will re-route you onto something it recognizes. So having the track on the map is huge.
Yes, you are right, if you are trying to navigate with turn-by-turn... the I think it is super useful to have the track displayed..... Personally when I've done BDRs I've never tried to navigate with turn-by-turn, I am just used to navigating off tracks.
Basecamp, like you say is pretty powerful. It’s a program that has a few idiosyncrasies that one comes to terms with. Especially when there are phantom gaps in the Austropo maps and forcing the program to link tracks up. Learning how to invert the direction to get a track to join for example.
I almost never use routes. Mainly to quickly plot a course but go to tracks almost always. Most my nav is ‘follow the pink line’ and our methods are remarkably similar. I too use Gaia with my device management on Basecamp.
Understanding you have content to come, one aspect I do is break the track sections up by fuel to fuel. Knowing how far is the ADV riders life. What day we are up to is a secondary need. I tend not to get hung up on days as progress can be hard to predict at times and some group dynamics and conditions can blow the best planning out the window as we all know.
On multi day rides I have settled on prefixing the track name with a letter of the alphabet. Makes it readily able to see all have been uploaded and where there is a track change on the trip it’s easy to say ‘track change to e…….’ Also helps when doing the occasional wireless transfer for a corrupt file. It does happen.
Brendon... you sound like a fellow "Mapping tragic"... Yes, once you get over some of the frustrating quirks of basecamp it is such a powerful tool. It's a bit like a swiss army knife... you can do so much inside the app. I'll talk a bit more about that in the next video. That is interesting that you break your tracks up by fuel stops... Nice idea. One question though, how does this help you.... do you get some sort of countdown on how far you have to go in the track? Are you highlighting the track in track manager and then saying to navigate it so it turns into the magenta line? I usually don't do this but just display all the tracks on my maps. Then I can see the different coloured "exploration tracks" as I call them.
@@brentbat doing tracks based on fuel stops actually comes from enduro work. Knowing how far was critical to the fuel management and being able to advice the crew what to take. Of course in the adventure world this is true, too. I can advise up front how long the section is and what they need to be able to carry. Of course both our methods are ‘right’.
It’s funny you mention count down. I didn’t set off to do that but being the nav tragic I learned to enjoy being able to know what was left for the day and what was around. I recently tagged along on a Cape York trip (Ellwood) and boy did I miss my gps. At the end of the day, tired, just riding for an unknown period of time to a camp you have no idea where it was. It did not serve my own OCD well.
@@brendenvosper7772 Ahhh, got you..... Yes, when I'm planning a ride I do work out the fuel stops for any long legs to plan my refuel. I'm with you, I don't like riding without knowing where I am, how long to go... I think that is a mental thing... If you know you still have 200km to go for the day, you just dig in and suck it up. But if you are riding without knowing.... I don't think I would enjoy that at all.
@@brentbat I usually only display the track I’m using.
On my 701 I have a Samsung tablet to run Gaia (Spotify etc). Being able to see the big picture is great but I am eternally frustrated by map access. I have had issues with maps not downloading properly and of course once your out of range it’s too bad so sad. After seeing you video I will go back and find the resolution button. A few items I did not know, so thank you.
@@brentbat yes, spot on.
Brilliant!!! Thank you…
Good info. Subbed
Almost use identical approach if we ever crossed paths and shared a beer or two we would be waffling on for hours i recon Base camp is under rated and i think just due to lots of hidden features great tutorial Brent. I also use Zumo XT as prime, Phone back up and always will have a paper map somewhere, just about to add the Mini GPS to Arsenal
BaseCamp has a feature to create an EXACT route from a track (at least on Windows, don't know about Mac). That makes it much easier than inserting waypoints manually into a new route and then manually adjusting the route to the track.
Merry Christmas!
Hi there, I've seen the "convert track to route" feature, but I don't use it. I actually prefer to "roll my own routes" as it only takes a minute or two, but i can drop the waypoints where I want them so that it makes sense when I'm navigating.
Hi @@brentbat . Thanks for the tips. I"ve yet to watch the next couple videos and maybe they will answer this. If the goal is to have a proper route in the Zumo, why not just plan the route in Base Camp in the first place and save the workarounds? Perhaps you want it in Gaia as well and it's easier to get it into Base Camp from Gaia than it is from Base Camp to Gaia? In your demonstration, it looks like it would be straightforward to plan in Base Camp from the beginning? (I have not tried either at this point)
Thanks again!
@@DavidLPitman it is way easier planning the route in Gaia. Also Gaia has better base maps (overland series). You can also view topology in 3D in Gaia.
I just find it an all around better tool for planning.
Comprehensive coverage Brent, love your work. I got an XT for Xmas and first I thought Santa hated me ! I think he still may hold a grudge. One annoying thing is that you MUST use the Garmin supplied USB cable to quote Garmin "GPS units cannot use regular mini USB cables for power, they need a special one with a resistor between two of the pins." Same applies for Data transfer. Also you must plug it into a USB port on the computer, ie you cannot plug it into a Hub - this is very unusual as generally people have all their USB ports actively connected to all sorts of stuff, mouse, keyboard, sound system, printer etc, etc. I think it is to do with the power rating on the Hub. I'll experiment.
Also whilst you can choose a different voice ... I chose Matilda (so I could waltz with her ) she doesn't do announcements of street names or turn by turn audio. CORRECTION ~ a day later Matilda did do turn by turn but not street names. I guess as a new unit data was till being loaded.
The biggest issue I am having is the distinction between WayPoints (I want to go there to camp, lunch, rest, meeting place) and Shaping Points (take me along these twisty roads - you did this when you adjusted the route up near Jerry's and Finchley Trig and Wheelbarrow Ridge).
Garmin has its own schema (language) for Waypoints and Shaping Points and a lot of Mapping software will be interpreted by the XT as all Waypoints. For complex twisty long routes you can have 100's of them - they will all be imported into the XT as Waypoints with names like Waypoint 1 to Waypoint 3567 - useless except shaping the route. Choose the right tools hey ! They can be deleted using the Garmin Explore App.
The Garmin Zumo XT user guide notes that you can change a Waypoint to a Shaping Point and vice versa but you cannot. EDIT - IN OFF-ROAD MODE YOU CANNOT. IN CAR AND BIKE MODE YOU CAN. In Off-Road mode you can change a Shaping Point to a Waypoint but you cannot flip it back as you will get a “Route Cannot be Cacluated error".
The issue is the navigator will want to take you to Waypoints whereas Shaping Points can be bypassed if there is traffic or a landslide or you feel like it, etc. You can set Auto Recalculation or Prompting on and that assists but the main issue is you end up with 1000’ s of Waypoints that are really only Shaping Points.
I find Basecamp to have a simply HORRIBLE user interface.
Brent if you get a moment can you post the GPX (change the start and end if you wish)
Happy holidays, catch you at Jerry's or somewhere on track one day
GC
Hey GC
First of all, I agree with you on some of the annoying aspects of Garmin.... Weird cable, Basecamp strangeness etc.... They are far from perfect.
On your waypoint/shaping point issue, it sounds like you are trying to use turn-by-turn navigation with routes.... but even with complex routes, my routes hardly ever require a \ton of shaping points.
But as you'll see in Episode 3, for complex navigation, I'm still advocating TRACKS (not routes), because they are simple and rock-solid reliable. You don't need any waypoints if you don't want them.
GC, if you want copies of any of my gpx files, best drop me an email at brentbat@gmail.com and I can mail them back to you.
BP
@@brentbat Cheers, I do use a lot of turn by turn and I tried tracks this afternoon. Turn by turn mostly because I know I want to go to A, B, C via certain Shaping Points that I have created in the vicinity of an area (and are optional). Quick up and away. I also think there is an advantage in that Zumo will tell me "6.8km Right on Blue Gum Rd" - I can relax a bit and not have to look at the screen too often with 60+ yr old eyes. I understand that a track is a higher order of magnitude in accuracy after creating a Route consisting of Waypoints and Shaping Points and then the software brut forces all the Lat/Longs ? The active tracking is also good from a security / safety point of view but that is a different issue to Tracks for navigating. I gave mine a good test this afternoon for the first time and fine tuned a few things like auto recalculation and prompt to Skip a Waypoint. I also rattled loose the Positive battery wire and it went flat after an hour !!! I do not like that you cannot sort your Trips in Alphabetical order, I don't know how they get away with me creating a Waypoint and they name it Pacific Highway ! Why not drop in the Street Number and Town name - it's a pretty long road ;-) I also wish the XT had a copy and paste function and a basic file management system ... anyway keep it upright !
@@gctimefadesaway If you like the turn-by-turn, then I'd use a combination of tracks and routes. See video number 3 where the navigation algorithm took me in a different direction to what I was expecting. But by displaying the track on the map as well, I could easily fix it.
@gctimefadesaway I too hate the proprietary cable that Garmin uses. I use the Zumo 396. Was out on a long trip and realized I had left the cable at home so I couldn't do updates/new routes from my computer. I knew there had to be a way to get routs on the Zumo without the cable and after doing some research I found this video on CZcams. Once you work through it, it is pretty straightforward. I have used it numerous times with the 396 and it works well. Should work with the XT also. czcams.com/video/2KwpR297h74/video.html
@@David_O Cheers, a few ways to do this, on an Andriod phone with an SD card you could transfer by Card. I use Garmin Drive on iPhone and share the downloaded file as the Zumo XT it is not compatible with Garmin Smartlink (why?) Garmin supports notes “Smartphone Link features are available only for product models ending in LMT-S” Great design work there. I have found a few cables around the house that will support charging and some that won’t but only the Garmin cable will connect the XT as a “drive” on the PC. I know the EU has mandated that all devices are to use USB-C maybe that’s why they are $200 off at the moment and a new model is coming. After a week I’m good with it but it is clunky in a few places. I also noted that the Garmin Explore website notes that the XT is not supported but guess what it works !
Hi Brent, great content and has really helped me as i have been struggling with certain things in Base camp for ages and the Gaia has resolved this for me. I am having difficulties with base camp on Windows when i try create the Route i add the Start and Destination but then it doesn't allow me to make selections to reroute on the track i want to follow. I have selected the cursor from the tools menu but when i try click and drag to my track it only allows me to pull a selection window and doesn't allow me to select to reroute. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.
A very useful video with a detailed explanation. Thank you!
It may be a silly question from my lack of experience with BaseCamp, but please let me ask: Why plan a route in Gaia at all if you then essentially redo it completely in BaseCamp?
It's a great question. Basecamp is a powerful program, but more for manipulating tracks and creating "proper routes". There are a few things about the User Interface that make it clunky. I can copy my street maps to the computer, but can't find a way of copying my topo maps to the computer, so that makes it quite slow when scrolling around. Also Gaia has just more layers and more information. It also has the community aspect, so I can see other peoples tracks... Gaia has the 3D view which also is useful, but it's just faster to work with than basecamp. So I just use basecamp as an intermediary and a utility to take my planned routes, fix them up and then send them to the GPS,
@@brentbat thanks for the clarification!
Well done Brent. Great work. I may have missed it but I was interested to know how you created the animation of the route. I am referring to your Flinders Ranges Mt Samuel video where a nice red line animated along the route. Just wondering how that was done as it provides a great representation.
Hi there, I'm using a pretty high-end mapping package called Geolayers 3. There is a pretty steep learning curve to using it, but it is very powerful. You have to know Adobe Aftereffects to use it, so it's definitely not for the casual user. I find that maps are such an important part of the adventure bike riding story that I have invested the time to learn it (and I'm a map geek).
@@brentbat thanks Brent, appreciated. 👍
Do you find that Gaia will transfer to BMW Nav VI as you are describing. I have noticed after the transfer, the Nav VI sometimes gets confused with the direction of travel and wants to recalculate the route, especially with traveling more rural forest roads. Great Videos!! Thank you.
I highly recommend navigating via tracks as opposed to routes. Yes, Gaia will go to the Nav VI using exactly the same techniques I described. If you do want routes, make sure you also display tracks on the map so that if it screws up, you know where to go, see my next video for a good example of this in practice.
Hi Brent, Just wondering where you got thre "Shaded Relief" layer from.... I'm a subscriber... but cant find it.... what does it offer?? David
Hey there David
It's funny, that layer was activated in my Gaia from the start. To be honest i don't use it much.... If you lower the opacity of maps sitting above it, it helps to give a greater sense of the topography, but I go to 3D view now if I want to understand it better. So you aren't missing much.
Gaia GPS.. tried to go to their website but get a "not available in your area" ,message. Any thoughts Brent? In QLD
That sounds very weird. I can't believe it's outlawed in QLD. I'd try again in case it was some weird internet glitch.
@@brentbat Will try a different browser. Many thanks.
@@brentbat iMAC and the issue is Safari. Also had issues building a new website for my studio on GoDaddy. Would not run on Safari.. so now using Chrome. Gaia GPS works on Chrome. :-)
Utterly bizarre that Gaia is so horrible at exporting GPX files. It should have some options to export a GPX "track" or allow you to set a limit on route points.
I wanted to export from the Gaia phone app to my phone, connect my Garmin to my phone using USB cable and load the GPX while away (with no access to BaseCamp). Gaia creates too many route points for the Garmin. It just truncates the GPX when you load it in, so it is not usable directly on the GPS.
There must be a phone app that can convert a route to a track.
Gaia knows the intersections for roads/trails, why wouldn't they create a waypoint at each intersection. Off to Gaia support now...
There is an app on the iphone.... I talked about it on one of my later videos..... I'm sure there will be an Android equivalent. But yes, it's frustrating that Gaia won't export native tracks.