Mapping and Route Planning for Adventure Bike Riders - Part 3 of 4
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- čas přidán 25. 12. 2022
- In this chapter, we create 2 tracks, a route and 5 waypoints, transfer them to the Zumo XT, get them to display properly and then go and ride the track, navigate to a waypoint, and then do turn-by-turn navigation of the route home.
- Jak na to + styl
Finally! Thank you for taking the time to put that out there! It can be very frustrating trying to figure out the what goes where and when between the various systems and devices. Very helpful, thanks again Brent!
Thanks Brent! My two brothers and I are just dipping our toes into the Garmin/Gaia universe and have had plenty of initial hiccups, so this series is very timely!
Excellent... well hopefully I'll have saved you some frustrating moments. I remember the first few rides I did with a GPS....Very frustrating. I didn't know what it was doing, and I was circling the block over and over again :-)
You did a super job illustrating why using tracks is the way to go
Thanks Brent! The explanations are very consistent and helpful!
Thanks Brent! Ive got the Inreach Explorer Plus and pair it to a small Ipad stored on me. I only use the GPS with the emergency beacon, just in case. The satellite messaging is useful too but I can see there is so much more I can do with it. Your videos are very helpful!!
Very helpful tutorials!Although i have all of this in my head,i never organized it in such a good way!Many thanks!
Thanks for the great series of navigational tutorial vids Brent (y)
Thanks Brent, learning heaps of helpful tips and tricks. Daz
Good job Brent. There are definitely some nuggets there. I’ll give you a couple. Yes as soon as you connect the Zumo to explorer the show on map will go & you now have to use collections. In explorer you can make as many individual collections as you need. They are then the folders for you to turn on & off with tracks in them. Then an easy way to control is at time stamp 16:17 you moved the map & you will see the layer icon’s back ground changed to a solid square & moved up a little on the map. Very subtle but now touch that icon & you will go straight to the layers with the collections tab, then in there you can chose the individual collection, (file) to show on map. Also I use explorer to transfer tracks ect to the Zumo. Once Garmin drive connects it syncs all new collections to the Zumo from explorer so I don’t need to take the Zumo of the bike. Almost just drag & drop GPX files into a collection in explorer. You do have to delete tracks manually in that collection from the Zumo. I haven’t watches #4 yet so you may cover some of this.
Hey John
Thanks for this... some good tips. I hadn't noticed that subtle change in the layers icon that takes you to collections menu. Very useful.
Regarding Explore.... I'm still beating my head against a wall.... For me it kinda works, but not the way I want it to work. I have a love/hate relationship with Garmin. I think I love their hardware engineers and hate their S/W engineers. I'll do some more playing around before I release video 4... I've been getting a few different suggestions on how others are using the combination of tech. Funnily enough I just downloaded the Garmin Explore App on my iPhone and ALL my Garmin devices are unsupported... so that must just be for watches etc. But it did synch with my web-based Garmin Explore account.
@@brentbat I’m with you. Love, Hate. Sometimes much more than hate.
Yes it says unsupported but the Zumo will sync. This is how I do it but there would much better house keeping. I slide the Gaia GPX file straight to explorer after exporting. I have 6 or so collections that stay put just numbered to represent 6 tracks. Remove/delete previous rides tracks from collection. NOTE, Remove dose not sync to Zumo?? You need to do this manually at the same time you are choosing the new track/collection to display for that days ride, easy three clicks more. On the explorer map tab, select import, arrow pointing into box icon.
Select import as track, explorer dose the whole convert to track thing. Select add to existing collections. Select collection. Next. Drag & drop.
Start Zumo when you start bike with drive app connected & seconds latter track is in collection. Chose collections to display on map. Done.
Hope that makes sense.
@@johnussher6990 Hey John, not sure if you can help.
I've imported tracks to Explore using the method that you describe, but they come in as ugly looking tracks that have triangular markers closely spaced together. I see no way of changing the colour of the tracks or removing the icon... This means that if you have an inreach and you are sending tracking data it becomes a jumbled mess. However, when I import the Gaia routes AS ROUTES into Explore, aesthetically it looks good in Explore.... No ugly marker points, I can change the colour etc, but when it syncs to the Zumo this way, it's crap for navigating on the unit. I was wondering if you have found a way to edit the tracks in explore.
@@brentbat Hi Brent. I don't edit in explorer. I only use it to convert & transfer tracks to the zumo via collections. I change colours on the zumo itself. I'm not sure, but I thought the triangles represent if the track is synched with a device. I also have an inreach mini2 but I must say I've struggled to use it with explorer. I just send a mapshare link message from the inreach to my significant others.
Brilliant series, thanks for taking the time. I had followed your series and produced a file in Gaia but when I put it onto the Zumo it wasn't working so i was waiting for the third installment to show where I was going wrong. Thanks
Great... I hope this episode helped you out and now it is working fine.
Sir, your videos about Gaia gps are the best I have found. I subscribed to Gaia, and I was getting very frustrated with the app until I came across to your videos. I still trying to get better at this route planning but honestly, I am still having problems with the file transfer to the gps. I hope you can help me here, on minute 5 where you are creating a track from route, I can't get to find this option. I am using a TomTom gps instead Garmin, but I don't think this step has nothing to do with. Could you explain me how to get to that part of the system, on the screen says that you are on my computer.
Excellent video series Brent. I used to have issues with my tracks cutting out before the end on some rides after being transferred to my Garmin GPS from Basecamp. I found out that I needed to change the settings in Basecamp under options - Device Transfer from 500 (default) to 10,000. I haven't had an issue since. I usually create my tracks in RidewithGPS then import into Basecamp & just use Basecamp as mainly a library for all my tracks. I will try GAIA after watching your videos. Thanks.
Gary, I just checked my settings and I don't have that option checked to simplify my tracks. I let the full track (in all it's glory) get sent to my GPS unit.
@@brentbat What I found before I ticked the box & changed the number from 500 to 10,000 was that even though the track appeared correct in Basecamp when I transferred the track to my Garmin GPS, if the ride was say 350km on & offroad the track would just end before the destination. However if I copied the GPX file directly to my Garmin GPS without using Basecamp the whole track was there. I also tried creating the same track in Basecamp & then transferring it to my Garmin GPS & the same issue occurred. Also if I emailed the GPX file to the other riders & they used Basecamp to transfer the file they would have the same issue with the track cutting out.
@@garrymison7152 Hmmm ,that is weird behavior, I've not seen that. But it sounds like you have solved your problem, so that is good.
Another great video, this series is excellent. Is there a reason you don't ask Zumo to navigate using the track. It seems you're just displaying the track and then following it. If you open the track and navigate with it, then Garmin will show you how many feet/meters you've gone off track. This is a useful feature for offroad trails that have some spurs or options to indicate that you're still on the intended track.
Great work Brent.
I’ll have a guess at what happened with the Zumo crashing, I think it’s lost power. The reason I say that is I’ve had this issue numerous times since having one. Otherwise great units.
You may well be right... I've had a couple of issues with the power connector, but I thought it was just dirt. It's the first time it has rebooted on me though.
Great series of vids Brent, I have been using Gaia for a while and have just got a Zumo XT and found these vids very useful.
This is great when planning ahead, but I am having trouble while out on the road using Gaia phone app, Garmin drive app & the Zumo XT. Any chance you can do a second series while on the road without access to basecamp.
Sure thing. I'll cover using the phone app and transferring to Zumo XT in Video 4.
Hi Brent - At the 12 minute mark you talk about making sure the maps from the Zumo are installed on the HDD of the PC being used. How does one import the maps from the Zumo into Basecamp ?
Brent, I changed some settings and seem to have made BC work on my Apple. Following your instructions step by step it seems to working. Thanks!
Are you running Ventura OS?
@@brentbat yes
@@DaveLukeBizzcoach Interesting, what did you change to make it work?
@@brentbat In View: Map to 3D only. In settings: 0% 3D exaggeration, Quality= fastest, Disk Cache=Best performance. I don't like the 3D view but it's the only way it works for me. I'm running a current MacBook Pro with M2 chip w/16GM memory and Ventura 13.1.
Thanks Brent.
Fantastic videos mate. Really appreciate what you have put together.
I’m of similar mindset.
I’m running the Montana 700i. Basecamp hates it. Basecamp crash’s whenever I open it with the 700i plugged in.
Further to this, any GPX tracks people send me, I can transfer to the device via garmin explore and it can be seen in the saved tracks on the device however the the track will not display on the map. 🤷♂️
My work around for any GPX files sent to me is to import then export through Basecamp.
Once I do this Garmin explore is happy…
I would love to know why Base Camp crashes when the 700i is plugged in?
Particularly after seeing your Zumo XT sync with Basecamp.
All I can assume is there is a software/OS version incompatibility. 🤷♂️
Hey there, have you tried Garmin support? They should be able to help you diagnose why Basecamp crashes whenever the 700i is plugged in. I assume you have open basecamp and THEN tried plugging in your GPS. Are you using the original cable? I can't think of anything else to try, but I'm sure Garmin support will be able to help. They aren't fast, but they are not bad once you start working with them.
@@brentbat ok cool. I’ll contact them. Looking forward to the 4th video.
Cheers
Ben
Hey there, I just had somebody else tell me that they fixed their connectivity issues.... here's what they said
" As a Mac user, I had trouble connecting my Sat Nav to Base Camp. Solution was to get Android transfer app from Apples app store"
I hope that helps.
Hey, many thanks for that useful series! If you would have to choose which routes planning tool to use for purely road (pawed) riding, would it be Gaia or Rever? Thanks.
Additionally, what do you think about Cali Moto App? Thanks!
Simple question: If I was riding in areas that were covered by the Butler motorcycle maps, then I'd use Rever, because that grading system is super useful. If not, I'd use Gaia as it is more functional.
@@jarosawskrzypek1373 Never used it. Sorry. But as for which app you use for your route planning, it really doesn't matter, they will all products gpx files at the end of the day.
Hey Brent thanks for this info. Appreciated.
I hate BaseCamp. Hopefully this process might be a simpler way....
I create the route on Gaia as you do. I then send that GPX to an app called Dirt Map (iOS only). It converts to "Tracks" to upload to the Zumo XT via Garmin Drive. I then use these maps in off-road and they work really well when off-road.
You can then get the Zumo XT to convert these to "Trips" and it will then give you turn-by-turn guidance if you have comms.
I haven't gone into the detail of if the files I'm uploading are cleaned up in the way you do through BaseCamp though.
The hardest thing I've found to get around is when in "Trips", trying to get the device not to occasionally find the fastest route, and stick to the planned route. The method I'm doing now seems to have solved the problem but I'm not 100% sure on that yet. In "Tracks" this is not a problem when off-road is selected, but obviously you don't get the turn-by-turn prompts.
Hey Tom, thanks for your note. I see Dirt Map is a paid app that appears to be doing the same as what I'm doing in Basecamp (converting the Frankenstein routes into tracks). I'm assuming you work on an IOS device totally (for planning and transferring your files).
I'm interested in the "convert to trips" functionality. I haven't had good experience with this when I've tried it, so I've never really given it a go.... I just find navigating by routes can be squirrelly at the best of times, even when I've created the routes myself, so I don't really trust navigating off this when the GPS is creating it's own routes. But I'm interested in your experience. (in fact as I type this I just tried to convert one of my last tracks to a trip and the system is stuck at "calculating 0%".
@@brentbat with converting to trips sometimes you need to let it sit for a while as it doesn’t like converting on anything other than a designated road or street. You’ll get a warning saying it has roads on the route that shouldn’t be driven on after it converts the file. Just ignore that warning and it makes the trip.
I’ll be trying this tomorrow and will give some feedback on what it does.
Yes I use iOS for the lot.
@@brentbat tried the turn by turn. Absolute disaster. Back to using tracks.
@@HuskyTommo That is what I was expecting. Turn-by-turn works well if you create the route properly with well spaced out waypoints and the odd shaping waypoint to follow the track. I'm super skeptical of these automatic "turn tracks into routes" functionality, because you can't control or adjust the GPS properly when riding it (like skipping to the next waypoint) etc. Thanks for getting back to me and confirming what I suspected.... I'll continue to "hand craft" any turn-by-turn routes that I want to ride... But most of the time... it's tracks for me.
I'm hating basecamp. Gaia is nice but that fact that you can't out put a useful .gpx seems absurd.
Everyone hates BC. Necessary evil
@@thecorporategypsy Basecamp is about 15+ years old (used to be called Mapsource before that) and because Garmin derive no income from it, it doesn't get any updates/love sadly.
Agree. I've done everything to avoid using it.
@@DaveyCrocket70 understand. I called Garmin with a question and they said flatly “we don’t support BC cause its free”. Opinion on Garmin not far behind BC
Hi Brent, Garmin have 2 units that look similar, the Zumo XT and the Tread. Can I please ask, if using a Tread is the process you are outlining in your masterclass essentially the same for both units?
Hey Terry, if they are both Garmin units, then I'm fairly confident they will work the same way.... So the content should apply to both.
I worked for 7 years close to your house in Barcoo steet. haha.
Excellent! So all the neighborhood must have looked familiar to you.
Can't use BC anymore due to the Apple OS problem. I am experimenting with using the device (ZumoXT) to create the "trip" from the Gaia route sent from my phone via drive. It seems to work by haven't really tested it thoroughly. Any feedback?
Hey Dave
I've heard a few things about the Apple OS upgrade. Somebody told me that if you have already established a connection between Basecamp and your Zumo, then when you upgrade it still works, but there is a problem with new users using Basecamp and connecting in the latest OS. I haven't tried this myself yet, I'm staying on the older OS until I hear more info.
You can bypass Basecamp all together.... You could still plan your routes on desktop on Gaia, and then when it syncs to your ios device you can send it to Zumo from your phone or iPad (see video 4 for a demo). If I were going to use that as my solution, then I would probably invest in the little app (can't remember the name now, but I talk about it in video 4) that converts the Frankenstein gaia routes into clean tracks. That should be a totally viable workflow as a backup.
@@brentbat Thanks for your reply. I have been a BC user for 15 years so I know about love and hate! I can't get it to run on Ventura. My specific question is this: If I use the "Create trip" feature on the device (The XT), after I bring the Frankenstein track over via drive, will the XT create viable turn by turn directions? I have tried it at the office and "examined" the visually map and it seems good but I wondering if it's not really going to work once I am riding??
@@DaveLukeBizzcoach somebody else tested this out. Looked good. Then after they went for a turn by turn ride they said it was “a disaster “.
If I’m going to ride a pre planned route then I always hand build my routes. I just don’t trust these auto generated routes.
If you were going to try this, I’d strongly recommend that you have the track visit as well so that if it screws up you can cancel turn by turn and navigate using tracks.
OK, bummer. Thanks. I'll make sure I have a track underneath the route. I have done this before even when using BC.
Good stuff. I did some Trips (Routes) and Tracks today & benefits to each. I created the Track on the XT after I had ridden it !! One tip I found is when you are deep in the XT menus a "Long Tap" on the back button will take you to the front screen. Another thing I could not put my start point as my Home address and I think the reason was the XT initially set my Lat/Long Coordinates for Home or Starting Point to a location at the back of my property, only about 30 meters off the street. Then I rode away from the front driveway and it kept wanting to taking me back towards Home as a Waypoint to commence the route - this was even though I had Auto Recalc turned on. I checked the Zumo Forums and this has been reported by others. I think you might have had the same happen when you pulled away from your night 1 camp site - it wanted to take you back there ?? You can also add a Map Orientation button onto the front screen for quick change to North Up, Track Up or 3D. I have been using a PC mapping tool called Kurviger.de (its German and they build good software) and it will export Garmin compatible GPX files with Waypoints, Shaping Points, Routes and Tracks. Bring on Part 4. Brent, I hope you did these prior to the holidays and have been relaxing. Keep it Upright !
Hi there
Yes, I've had that happen many times where it wants to take you back to a waypoint that you have passed. There is a setting in your navigation settings to automatically skip to the next waypoint. Also a quick tap of the "Next Waypoint" button will fix the issue. But it is frustrating the first time it happens to you and you can't work it out.
I haven't seen Kurviger.de before, but I took a quick look... I couldn't see the same sort of layer functionality that Gaia has which is important to me.
I'm about to head off on a 4-day ride and will do the 4th video in the series when I get back.
Have a great New Year.
BP
Guys I think "routing" isn't at all suitable for ADV riding (as Brent alludes to). It is for people who have absolutely no clue where they are going and just want to follow a magenta line around in circles until it gets them there - eventually. Tracks and a keen eye are the way to go. Thanks very much for the tutorials Brent. I have been using Basecamp/Garmin eTrex 30s for about 10+ years now(did the Tour Divide Route in the US with them) but am finding great value in your videos! Cheers. Dave.
Appreciate the series.....but there's a hell of a lot of stuffing around. And the Garmin looks very clunky. This has convinced me not buy one. Keep up the good work Brent. Great info to those using it.
You are definitely right... there is a learning curve to the Garmin and they can be a bit fiddly, but once you get to grips with them, they are rock solid out in the field. Good luck with whatever you choose. Enjoy the ride.
I guess, pretending you were riding in the bush, you didn't notice the double unbroken lines when doing a U-turn 😂
???? I can't recall doing a u-turn over double unbroken lines... where in the video did I do that?
@@brentbat 26:24
@@guidlines Ooops... You are absolutely right. I was totally in the wrong when I did that U-turn. No question. I'm surprised actually that the street does have double-solid lines, it's a small residential street. But none-the-less, I shouldn't have done a U-turn there.
What a hassle Brent. I do all my route planning with InRoute on my iPad and import it directly into my NavVI using one of several methods. Most common path is to plug the Nav6 into the iPad ( USB-C to mini-USB cable) and save it in the GPX folder where it is automatically read and converted on startup of the Nav6. The main advantage being I can create a new route anywhere and don’t need any desktop tools. The entire process is much less tiresome/clumsy than your workflow with Gaia and Basecamp.
I demonstrate that workflow in the next video... but wirelessly from an iPhone to the ZumoXT.
I still personally prefer scrubbing the file in Basecamp to make sure it is perfect. Perhaps InRoute does a better job of writing tracks compared to Gaia.... but I do love Gaia's various overlays.. they help me a lot with planning. Are you doing on road or offroad planning?
@@brentbat
Agree, those Gaia layers are spectacular (fire, smoke, air quality, land use, etc). But Basecamp adds no value when the primary route tool outputs high quality GPX.
@@vancamjr I agree totally with you, but unfortunately you hit the nail on the head. Gaia does NOT output high quality gpx files, that is my one bug bear with it. It's gpx files are what I call "Frankenstein files', they aren't proper routes and they aren't tracks. But I can fix this in 10sec in Basecamp, so that is one of the things I use it for.
Wish they kept "Show on Map" rather than collections, they are a bit awkward IMO.
Yeah, I think I'm with you.... It was so easy to turn tracks on and off with that little check-box. I'm going to do some more playing around with Collections before episode 4.... I'll see if I change my mind when I get more familiar with them. I suppose the one benefit of the way it works now is that if you do have "unorganised ticked" in the collections, then all your tracks will just display when you transfer them to the Zumo... saving you having to turn each one on individually.
Brent informative video, but to recreate a route from a track in Basecamp by redrawing the whole thing just seems such a waste of time. If Basecamp is that bad that it can’t do it successfully even though with a ‘right-click’ it says it can then shame on Garmin. This should be a basic.
Sally, it is not a case of whether it can or can't do it. When I design the turn-by-turn... it is all about meaningful way points (fuel stops, coffee stops, points of interest), .... then the other waypoints are just shaping points. So by hand-crafting a route, I'm ensuring that the waypoints are giving me meaningful information when I'm riding it. If it does it automatically, I will never get that. If the auto route creation works for you, then "go for it".... but I don't build routes that often (I mainly navigate via tracks), but when I do build them, I want them to work well for me.