PS2 வீரா ராஜா - ரஹ்மான் காப்பியடித்தாரா? - வடக்கில் எழுந்த பிரச்சினை | Shantala Subramanyam Explains
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- čas přidán 1. 05. 2023
- Controversy has erupted in north India about the song Veera in Ponniyin Selvan 2. Ustad Wasifuddin Dagar claims Rahman has copied this song. He claims the tune is similar to a traditional Dhrupad that his father and uncle had composed many years back. Maniratnam’s Madras Talkies has rejected his claim.
Shantala Subramanyam - renowned flautist who is well versed in Carnatic and Hindustani music. She explains about both the songs musically. She gives valid points about copy and inspiration. Shantala is sister of flute Maestro Shashank Subramanyam.
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#ponniyinselvan #ponniyinselvan2 #arrahman #rahman #rahmancopy #rahmanmusic #rahmanlatest #arr #arrsongs #arrspeech #carnaticmusic #maniratnam - Zábava
ரஹ்மான் sir kku நன்றி
பழம் பெருமை உங்களால் புகழ் அடைந்தது...
இதை copy என்று ஏற்க முடியாது
சகோதரி அவர்கள் அளித்த விளக்கம் அருமை
நிறைகுடம் போன்ற இசை அறிவு .அறிவு பூர்வமான பதில்கள் வாழ்க வளமுடன் --யோகி .நோர்வே
Respect grows for Shantalaji.. stay blessed..
👏👏👏🙏
It is clearly mentioed in the "veera raja" song video that the composition is based on "Dargavani tradition dhrupad" . Why this unnecessary controversy about copying? There have been so many darbari kanada songs in tamil cinema. they will all hear similar. As long as credits are clearly given, pls dont create unnecessary controversy. I, for one, was delighted that AR used hindustani dhrupad style in movie about south indian history.
Exactly
It is not Dargavani.... it seems it is Dagarvani....Rahman even got the name wrong in his credits!!!
They added after the controversy..
This is copy only .
czcams.com/video/-TqsbVhgwuA/video.html
Nine years ago .. released .
Copy is copy whoever does it . Kanthara copy . Veera copy . And even in the name credit name also spelling error Instead of dagar ....darga ...hi hi .forced spelling error . Do not know. Traditional shiv bhajan nicey remodified. Welcome to Harris Atlee world . Long live all muscianst including Ascar ARR.
Err is human.
@@biokart darga or naggor darga .
According to me most of the film songs are not composed from scratch.
With my limited knowledge in music, I realized veera song similar to Siva Siva composition in Hindustani music drupad style in the theatre itself!
Ceebros garden. Viswanathan
Good interview. Excellent questions .Very matured way of answering giving value and respect to Music and musicians.
All the best shanthala.
பாமர ரசிகர்கள் உங்களைப்போல பிாித்துப் பகுத்துப் பாா்த்தெல்லாம் ஆராய்ச்சி பண்ணமாட்டாா்கள். கேட்ட மாத்திரத்தில் இது போன்று ஒ௫ பாடல் வந்திருக்கிறதே ௭ன்றுதான் நினைப்பார்கள். ஆகாய வெண்ணிலாவே தரை மீது வந்ததேனோ.. ௭ன்ற பாடல் கூடவே ஒலிப்பதைக் கேளுங்கள்..
பாடல் நன்றாக இருந்தால்தான் இந்த பிரச்சினை வருகிறது.
As the songs are good then only one do have copying
Beautiful singing and playing flute.very clear explanation
Said it was genius always think alike. There is nothing like copying. There could only be an ideological simulie in any fine arts especially in classical music and literature. Hindustani music is much younger to Karnatic music which is the modernised version of ancient Tamial classical music which is pioneer and origin for all forms of classical music across world be it western or eastern. This Tamil film song composed by A.Rahman is is in typical "DHARBAR CANADA". The north Indian Musician have no right to claim their ownership in this particular song. Music is divine. Music is aesthetic. It has no boundaries. It has no barriers. It's universal, eternal and immortal. The agony Is that no one had ever even attempted to understand and accept the hard core fact that that the Ancient SANGA KALA TAMIZHISAI the original form of music such that all other forms og music originates and finally Culminates into ancient "Sanga kala Tanizh Isai"
🙏🙏
It appears the singer is highly educated,and knowledgeable about music and raagas ,the singer voice itself musical may God bless the singer
There is a very relevant point made by a very articulate, intelligent, well informed, superbly diplomatic and surgically precise Shantala Subramanyam. Before this controversy WHOEVER knew there was something called Drupad. Now everyone is researching and trying to get an earful of that music. The healthy approach of the Gundecha brothers' response to this debate, shows in their robust rendition of the drupad. Do try the original rendition of the ustaz and you would thank Rahman for making a turkey into a peacock.
Do you think ARR wouldn't know this? Don't blindly support ARR. Copying is not a crime but one should give credit and accept it.
Rahman now a days has gone faraway from truth in many aspects
@கணியன் correct
Absolutely. Give the proper credits. Then all will be sorted
Ella puzhgalum
@@arvinthsrus kadavul copy அடிக்க சொன்னாரா???
Even Rahman would not have given such a defence.As our karnatic musicians copy Thyagaraja, Meera et all and there is no strong concept of copyright here,copycats may make merry.
Very clearly understand the MUSIC. The other two sisters should take lessons from this beautiful decent lady.
Well answered
If there is a repeat or copy of earlier music, there may not be any problem as long as it is in a small scale like a performance in a sabra before restricted audiences, whereas when it is done in large scale on commercial basis, where heavy money is involved it is being disputed. Real Reason is money involved and not.....
Good response
No body can sue anyone for anything. All compositions are within the 7 universal notes.
திருமதி ஷாந்தலா அவர்களுக்கு நன்றி. உங்கள் தமிழ் அருமை. விளக்கம் அருமை. 🙏
Both songs sounds so similar...👍😀
Very technical defence.For a common man it is appattamana copy. For Rahman to do so is unpardonable.
So using any raaga for that matter is a copy per you,?
Agreed....a lot of music directors do it, actually every single one of them from what I can tell
using the exact same melody is a copy so yes @@gopinathbalakrishnan7390
The song was similar , ARR should acknowledge and apologize!!!!
Check credits
She is answering like a lawyer. You know how much would have mr ARR charged for this. Let him donate to those musicians.
No musician will antagonize Rahman. He is a big name.
@@krishnaramachandran7722 Is this a credit to Musicians or ARR sir. Sir nobody is big here sir. If we are not enjoying his music he is not going to become a big amoung us. If he is not composing we will miss some good music. We mutually help each others existence ...🙏
Correct
When he has copied he is supposed to
@@krishnaramachandran7722He is a good human being also. 🙏
👏👏👏நன்றி.
Rehman sir himself will give correct explanation for this matter.
The artist you are referring to is a Padma Shri awardee and represents 20th generation of his lineage…kindly be sensitive about commercialisation of Indian classical without sufficient recognition or remuneration to the actual artist or his tradition
Inspired by original based on centuries old Dhrupad. Anyone with musical creativity can use it. 🙏
Sir nothing wrong in general musically the notes some time the relationship simeler notations, even mastro Ilayaraja did in """SINDUBAIRAVI""""film...ninukoorivarnam....Mohanam raga.... the first line the same note???is wrong.....i feel this kind of debate is not going be healthy for music world,my earnest request allways please enjoy the beauty of the song.... let's not do UNWANTED political based comments,in our classical krithis in one ragam the songs travel in the same level... nothing.... wrong sir..... after things are changing...badly
ரகுமான் அவர்கள் ஒரிஜினல் சாங்கிர்க்கு கிரடிட் கொடுத்திருக்கிறார்! உப்பு தின்னவன் தண்ணீர் குடிக்கிறான் பழமொழி ஞாபகம் வருகிறது!
Copy is a copy....you can say it however you want but without the original, Rahman wouldn't have even had the idea to make this song.
This is such a sad explanation. Just because Shiva Shiva is not copyrighted, doesn't mean a famous and brilliant composer like Rehman can use that composition without paying due respect to the family of Dagar. I lost all respect for ARRahmam. He cannot have been so ignorant of the fact that this tune exists. Even if he knew, he can still go to the family and apologize and due the gentlemanly and a true human thing. With all the money and fame and being such a brilliant composer, why does he need someone else's composition? He should come up with his own original tune.
Clearly credits given also it is not owned by Dagar.
True
Who cares about your respect. but the fact this song was based on a 13th century song which was his inspiration too.
Dude the credits are given in the lyrical
Video
U r absolutely right!
He clearly gave credit
ARRis always copy cat. Its unnecessary for him to do this way.
பெரும்பாலும் ஏ ஆர் ரகுமான் பழைய பாடல் ஒன்றிலிருந்து
எடுத்து ஆள்வதில் வல்லவர் நாத விந்து கலாதி நமோ நமோ என்பதை என் வீட்டுத் தோட்டத்தில் பாடல் வானத்தின் மீது மயிலாடக் கண்டேன் என்ற பக்தி பாடலை சௌக்கியமா கண்ணே சவுக்கியமா மற்றும் பல அதேபோன்று 65 பாடகர்களைக் கொண்டு சொந்தமாக டியூன் போடாமல் மற்றொரு பாடலைத் தழுவி இசை அமைத்திருப்பது வருந்தத்தக்கது ps1 ps2 பிறந்தநாள் பாடல்கள் நன்றாக இல்லை கர்ணன் திரைப்படத்தில் எம்எஸ் விஸ்வநாதன் ராமமூர்த்தி இணை 17 பாடல்களை குறுகிய காலத்தில் இசையமைத்து பாடல்கள் இன்றளவும் மக்கள் மனதில் நிற்கும்படி செய்தனர் இளையராஜா ஒரு ராகத்தை எடுத்துக் கொண்டு நூற்றுக்கு மேலான விதவிதமான பாடல் மெட்டு அள்ளித் தந்துள்ளார் அவரது சிந்து பைரவி படம் ஒன்றே சிறந்த சான்றாகும் இந்தப் படத்தில் இளையராஜா இசையமைத் இருந்தால் மிக அருமையாக இருந்திருக்கும் என்பது எனது தாழ்மையான கருத்தாகும்
No doubt. Ilayaraaja would have done miracles
Totally agree 👍🏼
உண்மையானகருத்து
The least Rahman can do is give credit to Dagar household and the Senior Dagar brothers.....பழைய பாட்டை பட்டி tinkering பார்த்து ஒரு பாடலை கொடுத்து விட்டார் Rahman
We can steal tunes but a musician should put the tune that public should not identify and mention he copied from this tune. That's a musician work but ar. Rahman songs we can going on telling from Roja till PS2 many English album .hear English from ventures 1975 till fate
Why don't this question is asked to ARR itself so he will answer the truth.
Veera raja Veera song is the highlight of PS2. But it was copied 😂. Rahman lost his creativity
அப்படியா!!
1
..
Octaves change and speed change can't be escaped that he hasn't copied.. Arr definitely copied...
பொன்னியின் செல்வன் பாடல்கள் எப்படி உருவாக்கப்பட்டன என்பதை ஏற்கனவே ரஹ்மான் அவர்கள் ஒரு மேடையில் தெளிவாக விளக்கி விட்டார் என்பது இங்கு குறிப்பிடத்தக்கது
Copy cattu than entta
The comments given by Mr Ramakrishna is hundred percent is correct. This singer is also correct. Poems,literature ,music and all fine arts are the creations caused by inspiration. NO ONE HAS RIGHTS OVER RAGAS
You need to check out the guru shishya parampara pedagogy and the whole history of gharanas ...gharanas bandishes are like jewels that the current beholder safeguards ...in olden times bandishes were gifted when there used to be inter gharana marriages...it's a sacred thing ..please refrain from trivializing this issue
The interview can be better in terms of systematically approaching the issue, we should have gone case by case from kantara to arranging a traditional song.... Discussion is going towards ஈயம் பூசுன மாதிரியும் இருக்கணும் பூசாத மாதிரியும் இருக்கணும் 😅...I thought rehman did something like கண்ணாமூச்சி ஏனடா.... changing the lyric to Tamil because I have heard the original song before on Shiva.
Oh anchor u have been convinced.. Super.. She is briefing that he goes up and he goes down.. Blabbering..
true. surprising such learned expert is defending that it is different as it is going up or down. 😁😁
This is the art of copying. Huge money is involved here. Sir if I play a Film song in a different scale in mandolin youtube still blocks. She is blindly talking.
Correct
Giving technical answers is trying to cover up Rahman's shortcomings. The song is clearly a copy....I feel bad because I love Arr but without the original composer, this song wouldn't even exist
Yes
It is clearly mentioned in the song that the composition is shared between Traditional Dagarvani Dhrupad and ARR. Not sure why this interviewer seems to be held bent on creating a controversy..
PS1 also Rahman copy one song chorus from Jugni Pakistani singer ARIF LUHAR
6:28 Listen to this. Looks like a blatant copy from the original for a common music lover. If any other music director had done this he would have been blamed. As it is A R Rahman people go out of the way to support him. Sycophancy is a virtue now a days!
This lady sides with ARR because of obvious reasons...check out recent update on this case online and you would know
இதே மெட்டில் கன்னத்தில் முத்தமிட்டால் படத்தில் ஒ௫ பாடல் வ௫கிறதே.. கவனித்தீர்களா?
Classical music,whether carnatic or any other form is all based on the notes,arranged in a particular order and classified under a major raag. Variations depending on the creativity of the artiste are classified as janya raagas and have been given separate names by composers. Music,Indian or western,is an ocean and unfathomable. No one owns anything here. All are welcome to partake of the nectar depending on the mood and need. We have a hoary tradition. Listen and enjoy or if you don't prefer,shut it off. ARR is more criticised in these times because he has universalised Indian music and has taken it beyond our shores. There was a similar controversy in classical music circles also when Dr. M Balamurali Krishna christened some ragas. Don't janyams have a name? These kind of biases don't do any good to anyone. Pointless nit picking. When i heard this song,i was also reminded of the song Shivashankari,shivanandalahari. Btw,I love Ilayaraja's comos too,but they too were not all original in that sense,it us spoken if,these days! Blessed are the ears which can enjoy good soulful music,which is God's gift to humanity. I Respect creativity. Its amazing how people freely use adjectives(epithets) against musicians which is unashamedly biased and short sighted. Proud to be an average Indian Music lover,whatever be the form and by whomever!
Making business, fame out of others genius is most unacceptable.
She tries to defend ARR as much as possible. But everything is open. The whole world knows about the copying. No point in interviewing her
10:50 uruttu uruttu uruttu😂
Dude you guys can’t even compose a song and stop
Worryin g about this . Even anirudh copies yet he is a god now cut the crap
Man .
By the way,PS1 and 2 tracks are average irrespective of where they come from. I have heard far better tracks from this composer( and that is the gold standard)
Warning: Fan boys to be blocked
அவா தவிர மற்றவன் கலைகள் எல்லாம் தீட்டு
ஏன்னா கோபிசிக்கிறேள்?.. ARR மத்தவனுக இசைய எடுத்தா கொஞ்சம் copyright கொடுக்கணும். வேணுமுன்னா நீங்க ஸ்டேஜ்ல ARR பாட்ட கொஞ்சம் மாற்றி பாடி, துட்டு சாம்பாதிங்க பார்க்கலாம்.. ARR team உங்களுக்கு வக்கீல் நோட்டீஸ் அனுப்புவானுக
Just like Agaya vennilavae song.
ஹிந்தியில் பேசாதே என மனைவியிடம் சொன்னவர் வடக்கன் பாடலை திருடலாமா?
நண்பரே ARR அவர்களின் இந்தி பாடல்களில் அவரது இந்தி உச்சரிப்பை கேட்டாலேயே அவருக்கு இந்தி தெரியுமா தெரியாதா என்பது தெரியவரும். இத்தனை வருட cinema அனுபவத்தில் என்ன பேசினால் தமிழ்நாட்டில் வண்டி ஓடும் என்பதெல்லாம் அவர்களுக்கு தெரியும்.
Dey mutta payala onnum theriyama motta payyan matri comment panra
அந்த அம்மா சொல்லுரதை நல்லா கேளு நைனா அவர் திருடவில்லை என்பதை
Copy ku best one man ar than thamilanu ku puriyathu😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😊
The main song of a movie was copied wahh Rahman, you lost a bit of respect from music lovers …
Ella interview layum Rahman copy adichitaarunnu proof Panna thudikkiraaru...Avlo vanmam Rahman mela😂😂
It is a blatant copy. Inspiration means you could take a short phrase and expand it to something completely different. This is way too similar. If taken to court ARR will lose
simple. Rahman sould have just called Ustadji and shared his vision for the song, inspired by Shiva Shiva, which was also heavily popularized by the Gundechas. This would have been in line with our traditions to use a classical piece, be inspired by it and bring it to the populace. Instead, Rahman chose to just copy, make some minor changes and present it, with no recognitionof the original. So, in my opinion, this is blatant plagiarism. nothing less that that. Rahman's ego is now coming in his way of accepting this now.
What i believe or understood from
ARR speech in the audio launch is ‘since it is a periodical movie, the songs in this movie should have some ancient reference’ that is why he has used this dhrupad tradition. Moreover he has given credits in the song description to dagarvani.
I really don’t think ARR is out of tunes to get inspired from something unnecessarily..
It would have been more apt had he "paid" an official Royalty fee if any ! That is what happens in the West and everyone is happy.
Ithukku peyar thaan chappekattu katrathu
@@victoriawilliam7066 correct. people who grow up on Quote and have all privilege's will not agree to any payment...Everything should be FREE FREE FREE
Composer அவா இரண்டு பேருமே இசுலாமியர்கள்😂😂😂
It appears that just for supporting/ defending some thing is said. No clarity. No firm answers. Useless.
அடிப்படை ராகம் பொது தானே. தேவையற்ற சர்ச்சை.தர்பாரி கானடா, சிவரஞ்சனி என பல ராகங்கள் சினிமாவில் வாசிக்கப் பட்டுள்ளன. காப்பி என்பதே கிடையாது.
எல்லாமே காசுதான்
THALA SUTTUTHU ::
ONNUME PURIYALE VISHAYATHILE ::
ராஜா சார் இசையில் அரங்கேற்றவேளை படத்தில் வரும் ஆகாய வென்னிலாவே பாடலும் இப்போது controversialலாக உள்ள இரண்டு பாடல்களை ஒத்தே உள்ளதே?
The Dagar family seems to be quite convinced that ARR has copied almost in toto a form of music that was popularized by the family without giving any credit to the Dagars.There is no doubt that the two tunes are both structurally and deliverywise almost identical.,though the experts may point to subtle variations.Surely, it is not the creation of ARR but is a conscious audio-copying.Won’t it be gracious on the part of ARR to acknowledge the reality?
Credits have been added
ராகங்கள் பொதுவானவை. உலக அளவில் பல இடங்களில் ரகுமானின் இசையை எடுத்து க் கையாண்டு ள் ளனர்.
But Rahman all his songs has copyright. He us very clever. He monetized his music but never respects the ithers music
Madam, this song fully copied...copycat Rahman....
Great example of classical musician turning up against classical fraternity….she is obviously tilted to ARR (not surprised why)..she is forgetting the tenets of guru shishya parampara …classical musician singing this is not same as ARR lifting for commercial purposes without due consent and recognition…
Why did ARR have this song sung by Ustad jis students sing in the first place if it was not a copy 😂
Anyway, ARR has not done this the first time either …bad karma for him
The song is purely copied, avar appadiye mela poitraru" is very stupid excuses.
Rahman is not naturally talented but quite good in arrangement with music softwares.
Joke
தர்பாரி கானடா... ராகம் ஒன்றாக இருக்கலாம்... ஆனால் இரண்டும் வேறு வேறு
மானம் கெட்டவனே, இஸ்லாமில் இசை அராம். ஆனால் காசுபன்ன அராம் கிடையாது. இந்தி கூடாது, ஆனால் இந்தியில் இசையமைத்து ஆஸ்கார் வேண்டும். இவர் அப்பாவால் இந்துக்களின் இசை ஞானத்தை பெற்றான். ஆனால் இந்து வெறுப்பு. எத்தனையோ இஸ்லாமியர்கள் இசை கற்று பாண்டுரெங்கனையே பாடுகிறார்கள். பக்திக்கு இனம், மொழி பேதமில்லை. தமிழ் நாட்டிலிருந்துத்தான் இசைவந்தது என்கிறிர்களா. ஏற்கின்றேன். ஆனால் அதே இசையை பக்தியோடு நேசித்தால், போற்றினால். மாத, பிதா, குரு, தெய்வம். மேதைக்கு அரசியல் நாடகம் தேவையில்லையே.
அது வேறு... இது வேறு.. லகட பாண்டிகளா...
MOST OF JIHADI RAHMAN’S SONGS ARE PLAGIARISED ::
அவாளுக்கு ரஹ்மான் மீது காண்டு😂
.. துலுக்ஸ்.. கொஞ்சம் அமைதி தேவை..
Hello she is supporting arr only
@@nepatriots11 nee moodu paadu dosai bakthaal
@@swethagv5707 I know ma. I mention abt the quesioner