Barcelona Review: Ensalada de Puntos
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Tom, Chris and Wendy take a look at Barcelona!
0:00 Intro
1:21 Overview
8:35 Final Thoughts
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BGG Link: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3... - Hry
This is why it’s such a benefit to have multiple opinions in one review. Tom isn’t wrong. Chris or Wendy aren’t wrong. Everyone gave their honest experience, and that’s the only way reviews can be useful.
As others have said, this is an example of why group reviews are so good. Before you moved towards more regular group reviews, I would always seek out the 4 squares review for a diversity of opinions. Anyway, this game look great I think, and I've been intrigued for a while, just a little concern that the mechanics might eventually get stale. Love the theme and vibrant colour scheme though
It's only good if you actually have a group with diverse opinions. Some group channels you notice everyone loves the exact same games, so it's either become a love-fest or they spend the whole review trashing a game they don't like.
This is what I love about the DT, you guys are never shy about your game reviews. Thanks folks!
I think this game might suffer from the same problem as Flamecraft. A good combo in a turn feels really good, but in Flamecraft you do combos almost all the time and it makes the combos feel like they're just some long turns.
In a similar way, gaining points is awesome, but when everything you do gives you so many points (as in Barcelona), then it means nothing.
Best thing about dice tower is diversity of opinions on many games. Tom has the most generalized tastes , for the most part of a game is amazing, he will like it. With that said, when any of the contributors give any game a super high score, it’s worth putting in an investment. I spent more on less.
I was bummed when I saw this review was released on Sunday (typically a day for bad or ho-hum reviews). I've played this many times at all player counts and it's become my top game of the year. I get some of Tom's criticisms, but overall I'm there with Wendy. Fantastic game.
Definitely one of my favorites of the year so far. Certainly disagree with those saying it's played out after 3 plays. There is sooo much to discover here, so many ways to chain things together. Nearly every turn feels 'big', which is something that I look for in some of my favorite games. I definitely feel there are thematic elements, like where Tom questions why classes matter, why do certain things that seem like the right thing to do hurt you on particular tracks, and these can be explained thematically. In conclusion, big feel good turns and plenty to leave you wanting more even after multiple plays. Plus it just looks gorgeous.
Fascinating review. Thanks. I look forward to meeting you at Essen
My tastes usually align more with Tom than Wendy and Chris, so I think I'll wait out for a sale on this one.
It's fun for 2 plays and then it gets very stale.
I was coming in here to say something similar. My taste almost always align more with Tom. But on this game, having played it several times, I'm 100% on team Chris and Wendy. I'm stunned by how much I disagree with Tom on this one. The game's fantastic. All those nuances and things that Tom seems to think are irrelevant are actually the big part of the game and contribute to a lot of the depth and complexity. You 100% can't minimize where you put your two characters out or what colors you choose. It impacts your immediate points. It impacts the pace of the game it impacts locations where things are more likely to be built. The player interaction is fantastic in this and very unique
Where the heck is Zee? My taste aligns more with his. Dang it Zee.
At 2:40 the buildings are not "lower middle and higher class" they are 2, 3 and 4 facades buildings. Where the 2 facades was considered the "ideal" way to urbanize the city according to Cerda's plan. Therefore it's not about "helping the lower class" it's about fulfilling his vision. That's why the higher level buildings reduce the Cerda's scoring hence you break the rule of thumb.
I have mixed feelings on this one - I have played it once. I think I''m (surprisingly) with Tom. It might be just a bit too much for me - so many complex turns and so generous with points. There might be a seating order problem as well - setting up the next player or taking away their key move.
Poor Tom. He's getting whiplash from the argument coming from both sides. I like these types of reviews as you get more opinions.
It's one of my highlights of the year!
Surprisingly a very polarizing game. I have my copy but haven't gotten it to the table yet. I have watched every playthrough i can find and i honestly can't see how i WON'T like this game. Just solidifies the statement "different strokes for different folks". Every opinion and review is valid either way.
Got to go with the Yi's this one. I didn't have a lot of interest initially in this one but reading the manual and taking the time to read the decisions on why the designer did some of the things he did actually is extremely thematic. Even reading a couple of things on BGG I saw a couple of comments from the designer that explain things further, for instance why he has passengers being dropped and they are not stops for the trolley. Like any game you can pick a few holes in the theme but I think overall this is a great game and 100% deserves a seal of Excellence.
100% team Yi on this one! Kind of stunned that Tom didn't like it. I usually have very similar tastes. I wonder if by playing Arc Nova or comparing the two he missed a lot of the more subtle strategies that seem to have eluded him. But absolutely the Yis are right. Love the review from all of you. Keep up the great work.
This goes to the top of the "Tom is Wrong" pile!
I just played Barcelona tonight. I really liked it. I do agree that there are so many points constantly that getting points looses its value, or exciting.
I started the game thinking that the first player has a disadvantage but I still won by 4 points. It’s a 9 for me
Broken Meeple said it was too point salady but not a bad game. Idk, I tend to align with toms opinions but then again Chris and Wendy a lot as well. I guess we will see. I ordered it about a month ago on hold.
Being able to get 300+ points without breaking a sweat certainly made me feel that way! I'm more with Tom here, the game is fine, but it lacks anything new from other beige Euro's, so get some fun out of it, but repeated plays not so much .
I'm surprisingly with Tom which is a susprise given I prefer heavy euro fare and am bored by Ark Nova. But to clarify not because of Tom's reasons XD
Barcelona was pretty fun while playing but afterwards, I felt mostly empty and I don't think I'll go back to it unless someone asks. The game is a very pretty but entirely generic euro that doesn't do anything different for me to keep it in my mind.
The game is a 6-7/10. I look forward to the designers next work but there's nothing special about this.
Good review
I can't understand why people would dislike point salad games. I mean, you are still be trying to do the move that's the most beneficial to you no matter what like in other games, right? 🤷♀️.
Very interested in trying this one out!
My tastes normally are more allign with Wendy and Chris. However there are many games that I’m align also with Tom. So I’m curious about these one
I'm confused by the parts of the review where they refer to "choosing to build" or not. It's not a choice. If a building can be built you must (bold italics in the rulebook) build it. The only way to not build is to intentionally select an action space that keeps the citizens apart so a building cannot be built.
Yes, if a building is availabe, you must build, but the choice comes from the intial placement of your two people. I can place in a location that won't allow me to build at the end of the turn. Therefore I'm choing to forgo building for those actions.
@@DTWendy right, that's what I wrote. It came across (to me) in the video that building was some sort of optional action. So much so, that I reread the rules. Skipping building felt very suboptimal in my plays. As if you're setting up other players. Mind you, I liked the game as much as you and Chris. I imagine I'd be soundly whooped in a game with you guys
I don't dislike the game, but indeed for me turns can be way too long and combo heavy. I like combo's if they're not going too far... Like Tom said, I don't get the tram/passenger part
GET GUD THOMAS!!1!XD
With all seriousnes, I feel like the complexity in the game is not in the rulbook but in which path will lead you to maximize your turn and the upcoming turns. Barcelonna to me is a 2p game only. 3p or 4p will feel random and unfun and it's probably why Tom didn't like it.
Also, the fact that you can (and should) change up where all the actions are makes the game incredibly fun to me. It changes the approach you need to have from game to game and sometimes, the diagonal just isn't all that good so everything changes all of a sudden.
I completely agree with Tom on this one. I played this and it's fine, other people loved it, but it was simply not enjoyable to me.
I agree with Chris & Wendy - I love games that give you lots of opportunities to score points because it makes learning it more enjoyable. The swingy-ness of the point scoring reminded me of Castles of Burgundy.
The only thing I wished is that the rules for the solo mode were a little more watertight, but other than that there’s lots to keep bringing me back to Barcelona again and again.
Starting to feel that Wendy is the one to listen to in their reviews, she often have very good points.
I don’t think Tom hates heavy euros, but I do think he’s very picky about them. If one hits, it’s one of his all-time favorites, but there’s a lot of common elements that make him not enjoy many of them as much as their fans.
I’m thankful for the wonderful channel that Tom has created but I just completely ignore his opinions on games anymore. Especially on euros and abstracts.
I Was expecting an edit at the end to add the T in the name
Amazing display of different opinions. I totally get Tom's point, and for being someone who loves tons of different Euros and has a bit of math background, I find there's something very uninspiring when scoring is "too blatantly" about multipliers (please don't ask me where I draw the line). If I don't have any problem with 97% of the things that people use to describe how "abstracted" a Euro is in a negative way, this type of multiplied scoring might be among the 3%, even worse if it's also intermittent. An impactful decision isn't *necessarily* a fun decision, much like Chapel isn't a fun Dominion card.
I understand now that I really dislike this kind of crowded board
I really like this game. Unlike Tom I feel you do have control and you can influence what buildings other players can build etc… the only slight misgivings I have were one of the promo scoring tiles seems overly strong. The designer gave reasons for it but it basically won every game it was grabbed in. And it can be AP inducing on some turns.
Era....
As usual, Wendy and Chris are spot on. I think Tom playing a 3 hour Ark Nova game right before this ruined his experience. This game reminds me of a distant cousin of Tiletum, without the awful gray dice. Top 3 Euro this year.
I own both have played neither. Can't wait to try them though.
Tom looking for love, er… I mean theme, in all the wrong places.
I like points salads in general but this game breached that for me. It's too much. If points lose meaning in a game, it hurts the game. I still like it but it's a big minus for me.
It's strange to hear Vasel's complains about this game (he usually likes these sort of thing) but I do get what he means. I am drifting away from the hobby because of the current trend towards these type of point salads myself. I am more of a Carnegie, Cooper Island, Martin Wallace type of gamer where there's a real struggle to get points but where the puzzly aspect is really strong. Those kinds of games are not popular these days though and overall I feel increasingly out of sync with the hobby. Probably Capstone and Devir are the closest thing to being publishers of the kinds of games I like.
I like all of the games you mention (especially Cooper Island and Brass) but I think the points issue is disconnected from the crunchiness of the game (so scoring 20 points in Cooper Island is comparable to scoring 200 in Brass, but they both feel crunchy with lots of interesting decisions to make). This seems to be a game where although you’re scoring lots of points, the decisions are really meaningful.
Honestly, the further I get into the hobby the more my tastes go in almost direct opposition to Tom’s. This is why I feel he’s done a great job of bringing in really good diversity of gaming tastes with the personnel he has. Chris and Wendy are way more aligned with my tastes, Mike has some great hot-takes, and both Mike and Zee have exposed me to some really niche and offbeat games.
@@stevewithington1787 A lot of games I like in this video by Chris. I can't say his taste and mine are exactly close though. A lot of the stuff he really likes were kinda meh for me (eg I personally felt that Golem was Luciani's worst design and I really did not like Carcassonne).
Just got a chance to play this one and I've got to say that I'm with Tom here. There's just nothing special about this game. It feels just like a hundred other perfectly good euro point-salad type games. I didn't hate playing it, but nothing about it was memorable.
It's interesting how theme is perceived differently by different people. I have done sudokus that feel more like building a zoo than playing Ark Nova does.
Looks like a mandatory buy for me!!!
Absolutely love this one sorry Tom you are wrong.
Alright! Now I am sure with getting Barcelona. I ususlly like Euro games that Tom doesn't like. 😅
Cute post-colon name, though Catalan is the official language of Barcelona, so it should be "Barcelona Review: Amanida de Punt". Also, this game is about building the Eixample district. "Eixample" is Catalan for "Expansion" so it OBVIOUSLY needs to be the name for an expansion. If there's a Catalan version, will they get the Eixample eixample?
As far as the game? The Eixample is one of my favorite places ON EARTH. This publisher took a neighborhood full of amazing buildings and decided those should just be tiny accents, instead making the main focus a gameboard that looks like old school Sim City. "Who cares what Gaudí did? Look at these intersections!!!" The skyline across the bottom of the main board, the only part of the game with large-scale art, is extremely egregious. I can forgive the inclusion of all the buildings that aren't part of the Eixample. I can forgive that the block shown at the bottom of this board - Illa de la Discòrdia - actually faces La Sagrada Familia, making that spire silhouette nonsensible. But I can't forgive how they managed to turn the highly-original Casa Batlló into Disney concept art. When I think of the Eixample, I don't think about getting in a long line for a Beauty and the Beast dark ride.
It's also, unfortunately, failing thematically because, yes, Cerdà did want to build a lot for those with less money, but the vast majority of the buildings this game is celebrating - in tiny, symbol-covered drawings - were built by people with a whole lotta money. Creating a neighborhood for everybody that ended up not being for everybody was his biggest disappointment. The game wants to pretend he didn't fail, but the buildings that exemplify his failure are everywhere. Also problematic - for me - is that it's a pretty game. The Eixample is NOT pretty. It's weird and imaginative and mind-blowing. When I first saw the box cover showcasing the weird, imaginative, mind-blowing La Sagrada Familia surrounded by a bunch of non-descript apartment blocks, I thought "This game gets it". Turns out it doesn't. This game could never be fun enough to erase the sadness I feel looking at what's inside that box.
Now excuse me... I'm going to spend some time looking at Google Images while I await someone to publish "Modernisme: Le Joc".
I LOVED Barcelona the first time I played it at GenCon, was even sad that I didn't get a copy fast enough before it sold out. BUUUUUUUUT, I played it 2 more times and by that 3rd play, it was 100% played out. I didn't like it anymore because I felt I'd done everything that was able to be done by that third play and it got stale as hell.
Now I'm glad I didn't buy it.
I think that's the key part. That 3rd play. First impressions for this game have been favourable with many, but many don't play it another 5-6 times after.
You can’t do everything in this game in one session, so to say that it’s 100% played out by game three is either dumbfounding or a flat out lie.
@@ElectricityscapeWell, let’s be civil and consider yourself dumbfounded.
He's talking more about the feel of the game. Yes technically you can argue that you could focus on a few different aspects but you are doing a little bit of everything each time regardless. But whether you decide to be heavy on the tram or heavy on the grid or heavy on the roads it won't give much of a different feel.
@@Electricityscape - I just didn't like it after the third play. Deal.
I almost always have the same taste as Tom, and almost never with the Yi’s, especially not Wendy. This one i’ll pass.
I'm a backwards litmus test :)
So are we back to Tom hates Euros again?
Closer to Team Tom - I think I gave it a 7, but that's as high as I would give it. Certianly not Team Yi at 9's (though I did guess that was going to be the case! :P), the game feels like every other point salad. After doing the review, I'm kind of done with the game as it doesn't offer anything new to any other beige Euro or thematically interesting. When Tom described the difference with Ark vs Barcelona in what you're doing game arc wise, I totally get what he means. Barcelona does feel like a smorgasboard of mechanics with no real connection (I do X to churn Y to get Z points), but I totally get that that's basically the games that Team Yi adore - theme by the wayside! :P
This was the most awkward review you guys have ever done. Legitimately seems like Tom and Wendy hate each other. Tom didn’t like “being told he’s wrong” and didn’t like anything Wendy said.
I think the board looks too busy, has an unappealing color scheme, and is hard on the eyes.
Interesting. I think it’s the most beautiful game I’ve seen since Meadow and it’s easily in my top ten most gorgeous games of all time.
Ugly game for such a beautiful city.
Looks like yet another multiplayer solitaire modern euro and it is even ugly looking this time
I played this game and I found it horrible. A real point salad without any real 'reason'.
I just know that Wendies are not my type of players for sure.
Im a bit sad that this game is receiving a seal of excelence
The seal of excellence shouldn't make you sad. This is board gaming, not movies, where a successful garbage film can trigger an annoying trend that makes one legitimately sad.
There’s lot of people who think this is an excellent game (myself included). It’s just not for you - so who cares if it gets a seal?
Having so many different reviewers giving out seals makes it so seeing it on the box means nothing, I have to go look to see who gave the seal.
I don't like it either, but saying that it makes you sad that it received a seal of excellence is an incredibly self-centered thing to say. Not every game has to be for you, personally. If other people like this game, that only makes me happy for them.
I'd be sad if this didn't receive a seal, it is an excellent game.