Zappi Honest EV Charger Review
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- čas přidán 24. 04. 2024
- In this review, Zach Gibson from Myenergi joins me to shed light on the impressive features of the Zappi EV Charger - but after doing a bit of my own research, I stumbled upon a disappointing deal breaker.
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1:10 About Myenergi
2:49 Benefits of the Zappi EV Charger
9:40 About the latest version
13:46 How to tweak the settings
16:38 Mark’s first Zappi failed
18:50 EV Charger overheating issue
22:08 Mark tests overheating issue and finds more problems
TESLA EV CHARGER vs FRONIUS WATTPILOT Review • TESLA EV CHARGER vs FR...
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I'm a happy UK Zappi owner. Nothing is perfect but when taken with the rest of their products like the Eddi and Libbi in my humble opinion the integration is the best available at the moment. My situation is influenced by the UK's ridiculous energy prices, tariffs and other crap so it might not be as attractive in other countries.
The Myenergi kit is keeping the costs down and the EV and hot water cylinder full of energy from the sun with minimal mental gymnastics from me so I am happy.
Zappi does have a lot of bells and whistles. If fast charging on warm days isn’t on top of the list, then it’s no real issue so long as it lasts.
I actually prefer the zappi design of using off the shelf contactors. If one fails on the fronius, you have to get a sparky to decommission the unit so you can send it in for specialist repair ( I wouldn't be happy with Joe bloe soldering high capacity contactors into such a specialised board) then get the sparky back to reinstall it. I'm also not a big fan of the fronius contact pins being soldered to the circuit board for reasons for fatigue and stress on the solder joints.
A simple workaround is to move the contactors out of the zappi housing and into a sub board. They are standard DIN rail gear. If they are the heat source causing the thermal throttling, just move them out of that sealed box lacking any ventilation or cooling.
I think V3 will have this sorted, but the solution is simple imho.
I find it unusual that MyEnergi would have failed to account for cooling across 2 generations of Zappi. I have the V1 Eddi, and it has a massive heatsink on the back for this exact problem.
Yeh I get what you mean about repairability. But, I have had and have heard of many Zappi chargers fail. Haven’t heard of any issues from Fronius - but I’m sure there is some. Installing contractors in a separate enclosure is a good idea for an experiment! I might do that.
Great idea moving the contactors out of the box 👍
Thank you for showing the internal components of both Zappi and Fronius, look so different.
Yeh it’s a completely different build.
Love our Zappi. Two years of happy charging and happy motoring. Would definitely recommend and do.
I had a V1 fail just before 2 years. The Netural Relay failed.
Have the V2 since 2021 and still going strong.
great interview, zach gave a couple of good tips regarding the priority to charge home battery or ev. I have been using zappi V2 for 2 years and love it. its just so feature rich. would love to be able to use it to reverse direction to add additional home bat storage from ev (byd)
My MK 1 zappi died from I guess a hot Melbourne summer day with only 1, 450 kw having gone through it. I now have a ocular with variable ampage, I'm very happy with it.
May not have been a heat issue with that amount of power. I think they had lots of random issues in the “early days” ie, 4 years ago.
What am I meant to do with my Eddie device?? Had it installed a couple of months ago. Thermal throttles any day over 23deg c. Autumn now so no issues since the temperature is lower and less generation. Was honestly using a usb desk fan to keep it cool till recently.
I’ve been running a zappi for over 13 months without any issues vehicle charging performance is a consistent 6.8 kWh into the vehicle with 7 kWh AC on board charger in fast charging mode love the eco and eco + modes and energy monitoring features
I was told the early single phase models had pcb contactors. Maybe this model just didn’t have the same derating issues?
I’m only pulling max 7 kWh so guess I’m not tasking it to hard it’s mounted under the house with plenty of airflow my first unit was replaced as it was faulty out of the box the replacement has been brilliant so far love the real time monitoring on the unit screen for sure 👍😁
On our 3rd Zappi after two failures. Warranty service was brilliant, had it not been so I would have had a dim view of the quality of these products.
Had a zappa v1 that failed. I am in the uk and it was located on a east wall, the internals of the unit would get to 80c in direct sun light. We did get a new one and it is on a north wall, so no problem. I think some form of cooling is likely needed , passive cooling might do ghe trick.
It needs a heatsink. I’m in australia and it gets really hot here. I’ve just bought a 7kw zappi for my MG4 51kwh. It charges at 6.6kv so I hope it copes.
Thank you for replying, I like the Zappi but Im just worry about the heat comes out from the unit. Do you think Zappi will do something about this issue .?
The interview was actually recorded in October last year. So Mark's done plenty of testing and feedback to Zappi since then, and hopefully they come through with a new product.
I'm in Sydney and have 3 phase and planning to get sungrow 16kw battery system, with sungrow 10kw hybrid inverter. I like to know which charger would you recommend. Thanks
Hi @walters2023, the Fronius Wattpilot or Tesla Wall Connector. If you're not sure which one to go with, check out this comparison of their features to work out what's best for your home: czcams.com/video/b6jQD_guXXM/video.html
Excellent vid Mark. I think the problem for Myenergi is they come from the UK market where 3 phase is extremely rare and high temperatures are too. So if a single phase unit derates from 6.8kW down to 5kW - barealy noticeable. However if 11kW derates down to 5kW - well you might notice that. Personally I rate the Tesla above them all - mainly because of the features v cost. It's half the cost of the Zappi and the Wattpilot is even more expensive. I also prefer the Zappi's simplistic design because if a contactor goes it's as simple as replacing a DIN rail component. On the Wattpilot it's a component level repair or, more likely, a new board. The big problem with the Tesla - no OCPP.
Thanks mondo. I didn’t really consider repairability. But then again I’d rate longevity over repairability.
I recon in 3 years time, most of the EV chargers on the market that we have today will look like dinosaurs.
Agree a lot of homes in the UK are signal phase but there a quite a lot of 3 phase installed in business. one thing the Zappi has that the Tesla doesn't and this is a critical safety feature and that is PEN fault detection. this is in the event you house neutral and earth has a connection fault and the charger is connected to the car, the car can become live with a mains voltage which you can get a electric shock, the zappi detects this type of vault and stops the output going live or cuts the power
@@mcelectrical I'm not sure about that. I think there'll be a clone of the Fronius made by the Chinese that will be just as good but one third the price. I have the Zappi - it lives in my garage and so far I haven't noticed any derating. I have had to replace the the RCD board as it was tripping when charging the Model 3. Myenergi sent me a new board so it must have been a known problem and I installed it myself - they would have sent a tech out but it was a simple fix.
Thanks very much. Helped me make a decision
Welcome! What will you get?
@@mcelectrical the Tesla since it can now do solar excess charge. Have a powerwall with enphase micro inverters so the fronious is out
Also I am not quite happy with zappi BC I plug and start fast.mode at night then zappi goes eco mode by itself and it doesn't charge the car fully sometimes stop itself and it's so hard to restart again .I don't know what mistake I do
@mcelectrical can you please do a video about having an off grid power system for a cabin or caravan or shed? I live on a property
Interesting. I've had a Zappi V1 for over 4 years and very happy with it, but its just single phase.
Out of curiosity, I went and looked up specs on some typical contactors. No one specifies contact resistance so no way to work out how much heat is generated by current through the contacts, but a three phase contactor might need up to 13W for the control coil (depending on the contactor). That is significant in a smallish closed box, but these things are meant to be used in the smallish closed boxes (switchboards). I'd expect the heat from the contacts (and I^2R losses in the wires) to be small by comparison, which means that throttling would have minimal effect.
They could be overdriving the control coil (perhaps for reliability in switching with a poorly regulated supply) which could mean even more than the 13W and that could be what they hope to fix with a firmware change. Contactors on a PCB or separate are both valid design choices, with different trade-offs, but the main advantage of putting contactors on the PCB is reduced cost (at least for large scale production) not any necessary quality improvement. I expect you can get PCB mount contactors cheaper than DIN rail mount contactors and you would certainly have lower assembly cost for the PCB solution, but then off PCB contactors are more serviceable.
agree no advantage with relays on the PCB they (look pretty) but not practical also difficult to replace on doublesided soldered PCB. If all the zappi relay contacts are setup to manufacture specs shouldn't be an issue regardless how close they are.
It may just be badly suited to Australia, my parents have 2 of these in the UK and they're fine, but then the ambient temperature outside just doesn't get as high.
I am very surprised at the internals though, that's really basic stuff, especially given the cost of the units
Many EV chargers appear to have basic electrical components, but due to the trend of EVs these manufacturers are marking up the prices by ridiculous amount. They could have sold each at 10%-20% of the current prices.
It may also be that your parents don’t charge at full whack during hot periods- or if they do, they don’t bother to notice the derating? It may not be an issue for everyone.
i installed an EVNEX home charger a couple of months back, and so far its great. i have it set to charge the car when there is excess solar only
Good to know. I’m testing Evnex now and meeting with them Monday. I’m liking what I see so far. Has a bit of derating but not so bad.
Just installed one on my cabin with a 20a breaker, works great, it reduces the charge to the car based on the load in the cabin. Cabin #1 priority and car #2 priority awesome.
Hey :)
I've got a Zappi V2 also - and have observed the overheating issue. Did you have any luck with the firmware update you mentioned in the vid?
Brought up the same issue of derating with Zach when he visited my area recently in vic. The Zappi just isn't engineered for aussie conditions. In my opinion this isn't something that can be fixed with firmware, tweaking the pwm curve or cycling the contactors, it needs active cooling. The ecosystem and features are great but I wont be installing these either until there's a design overhaul or active cooling added. If it says 7kw/22kw on the box, customers expect it to run at that without derating.
Oh interesting to know. In my mind Victoria is cold. In reality England and Melbourne get hot too. Would be keen to have found anything you like. I’m testing Evnex now. It has a bit of derating and less features, but it like it.
derating sounds a bit like derailing, but at the end it means the same: is not good enough
Does not sell at all in germany. I know it only from the british channels I watch, the whole zappi family, and the ellectric show or so that did marketing for them on every corner.
Would be a great idea for the people with off grid setup is to run a DC shunt on the off grid battery to measure the current going to and from the off grid battery bank and allow a DC input into Zappi that measures this mV at the shunt, a bit like the Split core CT measuring the AC direction on the incoming mains, that way make it both grid and off grid capable.
I use a Zappi for 3 years now, in the Netherlands, in a three phase configuration , and I am totally happy with its performance and possibilities, also I really like the app.
Personally I experienced zero problems with overheating, do you test it with a one phase power connection?
Hi Lucas. Zappi actually called last week, (mentioned lawyers and I laughed) and then suggested I needed to do a firmware update and test it again. I tested in my new heat chamber at 36 degrees on 32 amps single phase. It derated to 6 amps after less than an hour. Single phase 32 amps is worse than 3 phase 16 amps. I’ve got a comparison video of other chargers in the works, but none are half as bad as Zappi for derating. Great features but questionable build.
Same issue. I have a Zappi 2.1, so the latest version that has now been in use for 5 months. It does the exact same thing as descripted. It will specially in Summer d-rate the output substantially and you can see it ramp up and after a little while ramp down again. Mine is single phase and I have seen it drop as low as 1.4KW output. I very quickly realized that this was heat related. I now keep the garage door open to get some airflow.
My guess is that these contactors will fail in a year or two due to such a high heat generated. Nerveless, I am happy with my unit as it gives me unprecedented flexibility which we take full advantage of.
My hope/best guess is that if it requires a hardware update, the company will look after their customers and offer the upgrade at cost price.
If they can fix it via firmware....even better.
Yeh my concern is early failure. They only have a short 3? Year warranty. I wouldn’t be holding my breath on Zappi doing any favours outside of warranty, but maybe they will. That would be an awesome move to regain credibility.
I don't know if the 3phase ones are different but the latest model single phase is a lot cleaner inside and all on a printed circuit board. To be fair if they sent you the current modem I think you should update the end of your video with that because what someone buys today won't look like that inside.
Yeh I was told single phase older models have the contractors on the pcb. But, no, the new three phase model is the one I showed at the end in my warehouse. Same as the previous model plus wifi.
Whichever charger, i recommend adding a chargehanger.
A cable hanger?
Here it is called throttling but we only see it on cheap chinese inverters without real cooling, the micro inverters.
We use pulsar plus from Wallbox, the manufacturer and company who had given the name for all of these devices.
great overview and for sure comparison at the end. Looks like a comparison of cold war tech with 2024 tech, but at the end reliability counts the most. Here we tend to not charge with 11 kW cause most homes do have 10 kWp solar installations due to limitations by the government which meant you had to pay taxes above 10 kWp till the russian invasion cause since the or 2023 the limit has been lifted up to 30 kWp are tax free.
But usually people tend to charge slow at home with low pressure on the battery since dealers have started to read the battery health and examin that charging speeds as part of the residual value estimation. 11 kW is a usual charger limit here, beyond that it also requires a kind of dampener which means that the utility company can limit the power for up to 6 hours per day with 2 max. consecutive hours to stabilize the grid in case they have too. Happens very rarely but you have to take it into account cause you will have to pay for the crappy dampener and its installation which a lot people tend to avoid. Same for Solar roofs, but there it is used from 25 kWp and more. So now the usual max. limit is not 30 kW (tax free) limit but rather the 25 kWp limit to avoid the chains of the utility provider.
I was looking at zappi but I ended up ordering a zj beny occp after watching this. QLD summers don't suit something that derates so easily!
I’ve been meaning to test the ZJ Benny. Are you using it with charge HQ?
@@mcelectrical I will be, the app interface looks pretty slick.
On another note do you know much about dynamic control solutions for EVSE >20A as per the updated QECM? I couldn’t really find anything so I went with the basic network control setup via the network relay (but still connected via tariff 11).
25:15 - Yes, your wee charge-*POINT* point is neat but the only moving parts in any EV charge-point is the relays/contactors. It seems entire sensible to me to design a charge-point that has easily (and very cheaply) replaceable relays/contactors as these are the most likely items to wear out. It appears Zappi's contactors are simply not heavy enough. It would be an easy, cheap and interesting experiment to replace the contactors with better quality/higher-rated ones to see if this eliminates the heating problems.
I am also completely baffled why the PEN-loss contactor is getting hot. There should be essentially *zero* current flowing trough this (easy to check!) and therefore it should not be heating *at all*. Are you sure your thermal camera was giving correct readings/being used properly?
Good points. They are 32amp connectors. That’s an issue. But yeh the pen contractor was almost hot to touch, and no current flow. Bizarre. Like I mentioned in the video, they think it could be an issue with the PWM on the coil. Not sure why they couldn’t fix that with a firmware update and a new unit. I kind of agree with the idea of replaceable parts. It just seems much more efficient and less heat generated to do it all on a printed circuit board.
This left me pretty confused. A contactor or relay which is used in the Zappi is either on or off. It doesn't modulate the power. Power modulation is done via the PWM signal that is sent to the car. So there should be absolutely no reason to derate the charging power as this won't influence the heat dissipation of the relays in any way. Unless you have very bad relays with high ohmic losses at the contacts, the only way to reduce heat dissipation from the relays is to reduce the coil current in the relays electromagnet which can be done by using PWM to reduce the current after the contact has closed and only needs the smaller holding power. Heat dissipation of the internal cables should also be negligible if the right cable diameter was chosen. This is much easier for wired relays than for traces on a PCB and can even be changed easily after production. I see the modular design of the Zappi as an advantage as it's much easier to repair or fix issues than in an integrated PCB.
11 kWh ! Wish I had that problem 😂
😂
Probably needs a cooling fan for Australia
I think the problem is a bit bigger than this. The earth contactor shouldn’t have got hot.
If an EVSE gets hot enough to need throttling that's just poor design - it's just a contactor and some control - no excuse for this to overheat.
Myenrgi have also been screwing installers in the UK by telling customers they won't honour warranties due to incorrect installation, whee they were actually installed according to Myenergi's instructions at the time, which they have subsequently changed and tried to hide any copies of the old version online
Hmm, interesting. Reminds me of Solaredge. The concept of not installing a charger in the sun was new when I was talking with Zappi. But, installing in direct sun will rapidly overheat it.
Myenergi New Zealand/Australia have been horrible to deal with. Been over a month and haven't yet been put in contact with an installer.
Glad I changed to a Wattpilot.
Oh interesting. I guess they don’t have a presence in NZ. They were bad at service in Australia before they came here. Being in NewZealand you should have checked out Evnex. I’m testing that now. Looks good so far.
@@markcavanagh thanks, they have a nz website and claim to install in NZ so who knows.
the other issue I have it the main switchboard is about 30m on the other side of the house to where the charger is so it just made sense to use the wallpilot as I have a fronus inverter.
We went away from these closed hardware based solutions. We try to connect every charger to every inverter to charge surplus also incl. switching the phases to get as low as we can cause 3 phases means 3 times more energy required.
EVCC is the sofrware solution running on a raspberry pi or as integration in Home Assistant. This way you are independent from all the manufacturers, a big advantage. evcc is a german open source developement and fast growing community.
Next step will be AI generated surplus management to get the most out of the surplus energy over all of the time independent loads which means it will charge the battery during off peak times if those are cheap enough to use the energy during the next day even after 20% losses for the detour via the battery. Fronius inverter and Fronius battery and Fronius charger is so much yesterday like growatt inverter, bbattery and charger.
Key point is to be able to turn phases on/off in case the sun goes down instead to stop charging.
Mark, the hardware for the Fronius Watt PIlot may be much better, but the way it works (and its software) is in my opinion absolutely rubbish.
The way the Wattpilot moves from single to three phase, and back again is sub-optimal. The App is absolutely woefully designed. Fronius may make good hardware but their software sucks.
I've gone back to using my Tesla HPWC and ChargeHQ. Much better.
Interesting. The app isn’t very user friendly. The switching to single phase charging is a feature in my opinion. It allows you do go down to 6 amps rather than 3x6 amps for solar charging. Most 3 phase chargers don’t do that. I do like my Tesla charger more, but I think you will be limited to 18 amps or 4.6kW minimum charging on solar, right?
@@markcavanagh The Tesla HPWC changes seamlessly from single to three phase without interrupting charging - something the Fronius doesn't do. The Tesla HPWC charges on single phase well below 2kW. I can't recall exactly what level it charges down to.
The Tesla product is far, far superior for Tesla owners. If someone doesn't own a Tesla and needs OCPP support then the Fronius is OK. If I knew how poor the Fronius Wattpilot product was, I wouldn't have bought it. It currently sits at home unused.
Why not just get a dedicated 32A power point and just use supplied cable with your EV?
This “smartness” will cost you $2000 and what’s the ROI on that?
and if it goes bust, you won’t be able to charge EV until company and sparky will get together to resolve your issue.
I believe the fastest you can charge with a power point type charger is 15amps. Haven’t tested it yet, but I’m sure that would derate too.
Just buy a Tesla charger for less money. I don’t see the point of worrying about rerouting excess solar energy when companies like Ovo offer free charging windows.
Yep, good point. And overnight charging is generally more convenient.
My Zappi V1 had numerous design issues, it comes as no surprise that later version still have design issues - the innards look like a high school project - I guess it's Jordan calling the shots from the marketing department as usual, style over substance again
I think that’s a bit harsh. It looks more like first year engineering student stuff 😂.
Evnex for me
I’m testing that now. It’s also derating a bit but not too bad. Full review coming.
I think he fogot the Libbi
Yeh, he didn’t mention it. I’m pretty sure it’s not available in Australia. I love it how every man and his dog brings out a battery.
@@mcelectrical "not available in Australia" ...yet. The battery is a Chinese clone with Myenergi firmware. I'd be interested in your thoughts on the PW3 - whether you'll consider it as the backbone of a system given that it's not a Fronius?
@@mondotv4216 yeah we'd use it to retrofit existing systems, but the Fronius GEN24 + BYD combination has it's own set of advantages for new solar installs.
Just get ZJ Benny.
ZJ is a cheap and interesting option. It doesn’t have solar surplus charging does it?
What he doesn’t mention that all the components are Chinese will not fit them anymore failure rate is too high.
FFS! They ARE NOT 'CHARGERS'!!! The fact that you refer to them as such totally undermines any credibility you may have in the eyes of anyone who knows anything about EVs! These are 'charge-points' or EVSEs or charging stations. The *charger* is in the EV (unless charging with DC). Why contribute to the learning curve confusion by using inaccurate terminology?
I think you are fighting a losing battle with that one. Everyone calls them chargers. That’s what people search for on CZcams. It’s easier to say than EVSE. I’ve mentioned that it’s not actually a charger in other videos.
Good luck asking someone to install a 7kw AC power moderator, or what ever else you think they should be called. Charger is standard terminology now - if you don't like it go back in time 5 years and campaign for a different name!
@@Mepjc Charge-point or charging station - it isn't rocket science.
Yes i understand what you mean in terms of terminology, i prefer to call them smart switches. But also the fact that the two small pins at the top of the tethered plug can indeed communicate with you cars internal Can bus, means that they do actually control the charge level
@@tonywebb9909 I guess most people do not know that a 'switch' is all any AC charge point is - albeit with, as you say, a degree of comms and, therefore, indirect current control. I just want to *try* to remove just one aspect of the very steep learning curve that hinders EV adoption. An EV professional should make the effort, too, in my opinion.
That zappi guy has provided a slightly less than factual overview of the company history - they have a history of weak customer support, unreliable and badly built products and over promising and under delivering - buy a Fronius product folks.
^ what he said :)
On the basis of my experience I find the products very good and the support excellent. I’ve had a few teething problems and the help staff were excellent. Sorted.
Don’t really have an overheating problem in the UK. It’s cold and miserable most of the year😅
I have been using myenergy products ever since their products came to market: 2 x Eddi, Zappi, Harvi and Hub with great success! In particular the Zappi integration with the Octopus IOG tariff is exceptional; it feeds my home battery system, appliances and my EV with 7.5 pence per kWh electricity between 23:30 - 05:30 and at other times when the grid allows. Their products are of excellent build quality and the customer support is second to none! Perhaps you should stick to facts or perhaps you are paid by Fronius to spread your unsubstantiated comments!
@markgilder9990 I'm in the far north of Scotland and I can assure you that the charge rate derates considerably. It's fair enough to design a system to prevent damage from excessive heat, but in this instance, the case design and the internal components are the cause of the thermal build-up - lots of folks simply don't notice their fast charger is actually only charging at half its rated rate.
They are NOT NOT NOT chargers, just a glorified extension cord!
Correct they are not chargers but that’s what everyone calls it. It’s a tad more complex than an extension cord.
More like a very smart power point with a lot of built in safety features