2021 Suzuki 150hp, 175hp and 200hp Lower unit failure analysis and rebuild.
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- čas přidán 28. 07. 2024
- I've seen at least 7 of these lower units fail abruptly with under 400 hours on them.
Every single time the pinion gear has been completely annihilated in one way or another.
I'm curious if anyone else has had issues with these 2021 and 2022 Suzuki DF150, DF175 and DF200 lower units?
Here are a few of the things I used in this video:
➡Torque adapter: amzn.to/3MnGNH9
➡Bearing carrier puller: amzn.to/3VYDZDa
➡Timken 6010-ZZC3 (carrier bearing): amzn.to/3MjI81j
Some of the OEM parts needed:
57300-96850 Gearset
57500-87861 Reverse gear shim set (Clutchdog Side)
57500-87852 Reverse gear shim set (Bearing carrier side)
09181-60005 thru 09181-60013 Pinion gear/ Driveshaft shims (Various sizes)
09181-75008 thru 09181-75019 Forward gear shims (Various sizes)
0:00 Intro
0:42 Pinion failures
2:33 Disassembly
4:30 Clean metal shavings out
4:54 Gear marks
7:43 Glue needle bearings in with grease
8:59 Shim talking
12:35 Install needle bearing, pinion and driveshaft
13:55 Prop shaft
15:55 Reverse bearing
20:00 Reverse gear
21:42 Test by hand
22:53 "Thats all there is to it"
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(Purchasing items from links displayed on my channel or website may earn me a commission for referring you, this is done at no cost to you and helps me continue making videos like this one) - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Here are a few of the things I used in this video:
Torque adapter: amzn.to/3MnGNH9
Bearing carrier puller: amzn.to/3VYDZDa
Timken 6010-ZZC3 (carrier bearing): amzn.to/3MjI81j
Some of the OEM parts needed:
57300-96850 Gearset
57500-87861 Reverse gear shim set (Clutchdog Side)
57500-87852 Reverse gear shim set (Bearing carrier side)
09181-60005 thru 09181-60013 Pinion gear/ Driveshaft shims (Various sizes)
09181-75008 thru 09181-75019 Forward gear shims (Various sizes)
(Purchasing items from links displayed on my channel or website may earn me a commission for referring you, this is done at no cost to you and helps me continue making videos like this one)
I’ve got 5 rental boats that just so happen to be 2021 models. This is my third season with them and I couldn’t tell you how many of these I’ve had to rebuild, yes some were due to renters hitting rocks and such but I would dare to say each one has been rebuilt at least twice if not three times. And at $800+ per gear set plus other parts it isn’t cheap, not including down time. Thanks for the video, I’ve been saying that there must’ve been a factory or material issue. I had 2019 models before these and the only time I had an issue was when a renter hit something in the water and then it was only a bent prop shaft. Never had to change a gear set until these ‘21 models.
I have heard rumors that Suzukis factory for gears shut down due to covid sometime in 2020 so the 2021 model year gears were made in some other factory and were improperly heat treated. The big problem is the gears you and I were using to rebuild these lowers are more than likely those same soft gearsets from the same factory.
I just had my first one come back failed again after rebuilding somewhere around 10 lowers, this time the forward gear smeared like it was made from butter, but the pinion and reverse gears are fine.
New gearsets I got this time around look visibly different, like the metal is a completely different color.
I've done gears on other brands of outboard and I/O, and typically the failure is one or more teeth snap clean off. The gears are usually so hardened they will chip or break long before they fail like these ones are.
Another one right here. 2021 df140 . I bought it in 2022 so it’s only 2 years old. Any advice in renting world . TIA
I have a lower unit for 2018 df250z counter rotating, that i need to replace the upper driveshaft since the splines are damaged, I have the new driveshaft, I was wondering if removing the carrier bearing and replacing the driveshaft would be enough, since i don't want to get to deep taking everything apart, the only step that scares me the most is checking for play on all the parts, since i don't have a gauge for it. Great video.
I personally always check the gear engagement with some marking compound, but with just a driveshaft replacement I have yet to need to re-shim anything.
I would get a little marking compound (I have heard in a pinch you can use some yellow mustard lol) and compare before and after the driveshaft swap just to ensure it isn't a mile off, the 250hp lower should be a 1.83 ratio if I'm thinking correctly, which has a way stouter gearset than the ones in this video.
I wish I could find the parts to convert the 150/175/200 to those gears, then reprop to cope with the change in gear ratio, but the bottom of the driveshaft is machined differently, and the driveshaft to fit the 1.83 gearset is not available in the length that is in all the lower units I'm rebuilding.
Hopefully you can get your lower together with the new driveshaft and get back on the water!
Thank you so much for making the video. I have one that needs rebuilding. Do you happen to have the number for the Timpken barons?
Yes sir, its this one right here: Timken 6010-ZZC3 (carrier bearing): amzn.to/3MjI81j
@@trythistv thank you sir so much and an incredible video. It helped me out so much to getting mine apart.
Thanks for the video! Could this be from accidentally putting the engine in reverse while going forward? I did this to my engine to avoid hitting something and now I have a knocking sound while idling in neutral. It abruptly stalled the engine. I’m hoping my gears don’t look like those.
I've wondered that too, but none of the Mercury, Yamaha or Hondas failing like the Suzuki's are, so there has to be something else going on.
Hello from Finland. I have 2018 APX df 175. No problem so far 800 hour on it. My friend say that in Norway this AP model engines lower unit is going to broke very often. They are rental use for fisherman tourists, and they shift the gear forward to reverse accidentally too high speed. Reason to this is that there is no neutral lock position in remote control unit!
Could this be reason this problem only? or is it year of manufacture...
Another question for you. I have df 50 , 2012 year model. Bearing carrier in lower unit pulled out when my motor is trimmed up in shore. The reason is that raining snow and water filled the hole in middle of propeller and drive shaft. Then came minus 15 celsius and water freezes there and expand ice pullet that bearing carrier out.
I bought new bearing carrier and install it, but there seems to be too much end play in drive axle, maybe about 1 mm. i test drove it and it will leak oil from gearbox. I see it on the water.
Do you know how this is possible?
And can You make video of these big Suzuki valve clearance adjustment?
I hope you understand because my english is not perfect :)
I'm suspecting from what I have heard that the issues I've seen are caused by a shift in where the gears were being manufactured. Not sure if this was due to covid, due to supplier problems, or something else, but it sounds like there was at least one batch of sub-par gears that went out in 2021 model year boats.
I've seen 2018, 2019, 2020 model year boats go 2500hrs of rental use before the gearset finally gave up.
That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if abuse like shifting from forward to reverse at high speeds could be contributing.
I would suspect there is a shim or spacer that has gone missing in your DF50, or perhaps the new bearing carrier is slightly different machining? 1mm isn't a ton, the spec for a 200hp suzuki prop shaft end play is 0.2-0.4mm, so about half what you've got. Something isn't right there, if the bearing carrier is all the way tight to the housing, it has to be a shim issue. Leaking oil could be completely different issue though.
If I get a chance to adjust valves on one of these, I will make a video, I'm not sure it will be soon though.
Great video but I have a question, if you don't mind? Is the spring and bearings in the Suzuki DF200 prop shaft pinned behind the clutch dog to keep pressure into the forward gear? Or does the shift shaft pull the clutch dog into forward and reverse? What's the purpose of the spring behind the shifting rod if it's not pushing it forward or reverse? I put my lower unit in after replacing the prop shaft and Carrier bearing and when i ran the boat it worked perfectly going forward but hard shifting into reverse and only had throttle no reverse movement?
I'm no engineer and have no knowledge of the design past repairing a bunch of them and reading the service manual but here is my take on the spring in the propshaft.
That spring has such a tiny amount of tension it might slightly assist shifting to forward, But more likely its to prevent rattling. Keeps just a little tension on the clutch dog and shift assembly so that nothing is free floating and rattling around.
The shift shaft and coupling is pretty positive, it forces the dog clutch against the forward and reverse gears very firmly.
No reverse has meant something is binding or not meshing properly every time I've seen a forward but no reverse problem with one of these.
Thanks for the reply. I'm going to take it apart sometime in the next couple of days. Hopefully I find the issue and I'll share it back. Thanks again.
What about the thin pin that’s at the bottom of the shift rod? What purpose does it serve cause I pulled mine out of a locked up lower and pin broke, but the way you took it off it looked like there was no pin.
I broke one of those little roll pins that holds the shift fork thing on the end of the shift shaft, if I look I can probably find what I replaced it with, I got several of them at my local hardware store
@@trythistv I did the same and the shift yoke stayed at the bottom with the horizontal shift slider. Question? Do u know if the clutch rod can be inserted with out the magnets and pin or do the magnets need to be attached?
I have a new DF150 four stroke, about 14hours on it. Yesterday on my way, i hit some swell and i accidentally hit the throttle from forward into neutral then into reverse all at once. The propeller still had forward movement on it. The engine immediately beeped and shut off. Should i open the lower unit to ensure that no damage was done, or is there a fail safe mechanism that was responsible for shutting off the engine to avoid damage?
Do you have a cable shift or one of the electronic shift models?
I believe the electronic ones have a safety, the cable shift ones don't seem to.
@@trythistv thanks for the swift response. It's cable throttle. Im due a 20hr service soon. What are your thoughts on getting the lower unit checked just to be safe. Used the engine for 3hrs today with no issues. My 20hr service is near. My prop is a suzuki stainless steel water grip 15 1/4 × 19R. Does this R means it's a standard rotation prop
I do believe the R means Right hand rotation, which is standard, L would be counter rotating, I'm not 100% sure as different brands use different stamping, but I would suspect it is standard rotation.
When the service is being done, I would either ask that the lower unit oil be watched as it drains just to make sure it isn't full of metal, chances are it hasn't hurt a thing, but if there is an excessive amount of metal in the oil it might not hurt to have it inspected closer.
@@trythistv I called Suzuki for some information. R is for indeed for standard rotation. I will observe the lower unit oil when we're doing the service as stated for any major debris and take it from there. The lower unit has to be serviced at 300hours is what i was told, so, until then. thanks again man
What year is the motor you are working on in the video?
2021
@@trythistv I have a 2008 DF200 .. No issues yet .. I wonder if it is bad alloy in the newer year
This is above pay grade
You should see the one I'm rebuilding right now, driveshaft snapped off right above the pinion gear.