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Positive Feedback Loops and Confirmation Bias | Douglas Murray & Jordan B. Peterson
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- čas přidán 19. 08. 2024
- The full episode can be found here: • Radical Ideology and t... @Jordan B Peterson
When positive feedback loop situations arise, it can't be helped but to see similarities in the social identity movements.
The left purports to see fascism lurking behind every right-wing move and perhaps the right is just as culpable with regards to seeing communism behind every left-wing move.
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"Inequality. That's another thing we should discuss because inequality is a terrible terrible problem. It's a society devouring problem - the only thing worse than inequality are the purported solutions"
To many people just want to flick a switch and let it ride. Society takes engagement and many people would just rather stare at their phones than do the dance that is needed to keep this in a reasonable balance.
@Justin. You could not be more wrong. The opposite of freedom isnt slavery. Its equality. Equality is the scourge that allows tyranny. No one is equal. We're all better or worse than, and thats a self evident fact. Equality is the survival strategy for the bottom 50 percent... losers
@@SocraticMethodGuy yeah, the proposed solution (equity) is therefore worse than inequality.
@@Justin-bc8gi inequality is reality. its nature. good luck tryin to change that.
@@SocraticMethodGuy Absolutely. We're watching from front row seats the effects of the equality outcome narrative.
Hi Dr. Peterson, I would love to watch you interview your wife! Much love from the US~
I hope he does that would be great.
I started watching you at the beginning of 2020 as my wife and I went through a miscarriage. For me, it was a search into morals. As I was trying to fix myself from your amazing advice. We had another miscarriage. Instead of blocking everyone out I knew we could get through it. We went to schedule a dnc for the miscarriage we found out we had twins and one is alive. That baby is only 3 months from joining us. And I must thank you for saying something as simple as “become a Phoenix”. Much love and glad to see your health better Dr. Peterson
Keep up the good content Dr Peterson!
We need inequality to trade with one another; without inequality exsistance is stagnant. It is the excess of inequality in which the problem resides.
Every system has extremes that if reached can cause the system to collapse
I totally disagree. I will trade with you for something I need that you may think immaterial, yet for me it's otherwise unattainable, and vice-versa. For example, I pay for fuel to heat my home. I can't pull natural gas out of my... oh, wait, I kinda can :") but not in a usable way. You process NG so I can use it and I give you $ so you will continue to supply fuel. Win-win...
Always love learning especially from Dr.Peterson. You make psychology so much easier to grasp
Gives me inspiration to create and develop videos from a challenging perspective instead of going with the status quo
👍🏼👍🏼
Me too
Something that adds to the confirmation bias is that we interact so much via the Internet but information on the Internet has a very unnatural level of reliability. Human brains don't deal well with information that is usually reliable and valuable but at the same time so easy to distort by omission if not outright falsification.
I love the internet. I have access to thinkers that I would never be able to listen to. It is about you, what are you listening. Do you just want to reinforce your already set in stone views and you are there to went and feel righteous or you are looking for balanced information and reliable data. There are many sources out there where people are trying to save the dignity of "thinking" over preforming or getting likes. There are people who want to be quality and not just to make a buck or two by forgetting how to have spine and character. It is about the "Seekers", you will find what you are looking for.
Yep, cognitive dissonance.
@@shessoheavy6130 It's not really cognitive dissonance, it's information that is sufficient reliable that you can legitimately accept it when it reinforces your beliefs, and simultaneously sufficiently unreliable that you can legitimately dismiss it when it contradicts your beliefs.
8:40 I love Peterson's response: "Do you think I'm one of them? Why not?"
Why don't we have people like this man running our country? Seriously. An intellectual who carefully thinks about what he says and makes intelligent arguments that people seem are drawn to.
Delete seem*
I'm an almost 40 year old adult American white male. Corn fed and bred inherently, although I'm now leaning Keto/Carnivore (Dr.Shawn Baker).
Don't y'all understand this is Masculinity Vs. Feminism?
It's the Matriarchy fighting the Patriarchy for leadership.
FYI: If the Patriarchy is lost so is America.
Females always lean towards Socialism and Men always lean towards Capitalism.
Studies show that when woman have access to excess they spread it out evenly to all.
In contrast, studies show that when men have access to excess, they distribute resources to those most competent and competitive. This is what leads to competitiveness and success globally
Well said!
I hate all the categorizing everyone into left and right camps
Why
You can hate it, but it is the way things are going.
You would like us to all just get along?
Dr. Peterson, how are you doing? Are you recovering well? You are in my prayers ❤️
Dr. Peterson, I respect your opinion immensely. I understand you being concerned about fascist on the right. I would submit to you that, the leftist fascist ie, BLM and Antifa have demonstrated their willingness to use violence. If nothing is done to curtail their violence, how does anyone feel that that right will be kept in check if it appears they have been treated unfairly?
Amen
3:23 exactly.
The only thing worse then believing everything, is doubting everything.
I would say that critical thinking has more merit than pure acceptance. We need to be able to challenge the "current views" to be able to progress. But I agree that to doubt everything comes close to a level of paranoia.
PLEASE TALK TO MICHAEL MALICE
Here's an idea I've been playing around with:
The cause for modernity's scale of inequality is peace.
We know that the only reliable things, so far, to bring about the flattening of inequality is war, genocide, and natural disasters. Now, war is sparse, genocide is even rarer, and globalism offsets any losses in any one particular geographic location by successes in other regions. With our prosperity, Price's Law continues and inequality grows. It's not that there wasn't inequality before, it's just the system got torn down relatively (to our civilization) quickly. It's that today there is a prolonged period of prosperity for it to accumulate to the levels that it has become.
Great to hear a true debate! Thank you so much Dr. Jordan Peterson
Buy seeds y’all it’s the new money for the neofeudal casino gulag plantation economy
You can only trust people who are trust worthy
Dr. Jordan B. Peterson! When are you going to discourse with moderate Muslims.
(You once said that you are going to do that in upcoming years but those years ain't coming)
It would be best if authorities quit trying to solve problems.
speaking of feedback, I think that world leaders are oblivious to what is slowly growing among people around the planet. A deep, strong feeling that the ones chosen to lead us are uncapable of doing so, and that the current social-economical system is outdated and corrupt to the bone. People have been pushed to the limit, and sooner or later the drop that makes the glass overflow will come. And it will not be something big or grandiose: it will be something small and almost unnoticed, that will sparkle all of it.
6:35 Divide and conquer is the term
Thanks for this
Distance->Ignorance->Surety->Tyranny.
I respect Jordan Peterson so much because he listens and tries to understand. I can see it here too, but I think his and Murray's opinions are very close in the subject they are discussing. Certain things would be better to be discussed with Sam Harris and Slavoj Zizek. The conversation between JBP and Zizek was something that should be a goal today. How two people are intelligently listen and respectfully consider the other. I loved seeing him sitting almost on the edge of his seat, because he was so surprised that actually Zizek viewing some things differently, not as Peterson assumed. Those are the conversations we need. I would love to see him with other people too, like Daniel Schmachtenberger. He is more of a "future thinker" and JBP have been a little too much in the past. What is totally understandable if you are into your own field and you spent so much time and effort to mater it, you can't be as deeply involved with other areas too. You just have to listen to those who are just as committed in their own subject, as capable and gifted in what they are doing.
We don't trust each other because it is ok to do anything if your image is the right one, talk is enough. We don't trust each other because there are absolutely no consequences and we are ok with it. We don't trust each other because it seems like your "value" goes by your power and not who you are. If bullying and being "slick" looked as an acceptable and admirable "tool" to get ahead, why would you trust people. How can you trust someone who is violating the rules of the game? How can you trust anyone if your society is so corrupt that the system let these people be the ones who role the dice and deliberately making rules to support the powerful on the expense of the common. It supports pathology and bullies, not heathy competition and people who take responsibility. People who think they are just temporary "not on the top", but will be because they are exceptional. Narcissism is the big problem today. Their place in high places and the enabler wannabes who can't figure out when they are opposing their own intrest and making strong the ones who will use them and discard them when it is time to pay some dues.
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What are we talking about? Forgiveness or forceful forgetfulness? Why would people who are deliberately and without feeling bad to violate the rules need forgiveness? What actually would it change? It is them who are manipulating the system and drive people against each other. They are the problem, not that we have no forgiveness. If anything, we are suffering from some serious forgetfulness. But we will be reminded. That is not a question.
It is not living (!!!!) wage and health care for all that will destroy the country OR the economy. It is corruption and insatiable thirst for money and power.
If we have living wage, small businesses have more costumers and profit to grow their businesses.
If we have healthcare, people who are interested to work hard on dreams that they have in their heads can give it a try. One of the reasons someone can't even play with the idea if they have family: they need insurance. A young couple with kids can not be without one. One parent maybe at home with the kids for years, the other is holding a good job with health insurance. Forget about that business for a good couple of years. The height of your productivity will be spent behind a desk of a corporation or doing labor for an other corporation. Only big companies are able to pay these insanely expensive health insurances. Even they are looking to "lower the costs" by not employing people more than 30 hours a week, so they are not full time employees. People are so petty and unjust when they are looking to solve problems the easy way: take more from the vulnerable and they don't address the BIG problems that actually would make meaningful changes.
(If someone is working 40 hours a week and have to live month to month, if you get sick and you bankrupt because of it: this is modern day slavery. If you don't pay someone who is full time enough to be able to live on: you don't have a "business", you are taking advantage of people)
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We do need inequality of course. We do not need millions in crushing poverty. We do not need World Dominating concentrations of WEALTH/POWER.
Yes we are prodded, very fucking prodded
Who called male trinity to come on the jp podcast?
I feel like Conservatives' problem with the Left, is that they're worried the Left will unfairly 'level' or 'reset' the playing field. Perhaps they didn't even really like the rules or systems in place to begin with but, regardless, they feel like they have worked hard within the current system to earn what they have. Now they see these people on the left wanting to come in and, rather than adapt to and work hard under the current system like they did, take the 'easy'/'cheap' path of just changing the rules/system to suit them better. Like, hang on a minute - I just struggled and sacrificed to make some progress under these rules, now you want to come along and just change them to make it easier for you?? How is that fair?
This is probably part of the reason why people tend to become more conservative as they get older. Not only do others get a better ride than you, but there's also the possibility that they minimise or destroy the system against which you judged yourself successful. And if that happens, then you are then your achievements are judged as less impressive, making YOU less impressive.
Okay but they didn't talk about positive feedback loops at all...
There is a mistaken belief that science has given humans access to the truth, especially on the left. Without religion, there is no self-examination of the limit of an individual's understanding and motivation. It is too easy to believe there is no need to discuss with people with different opinions. Discussion is essential for problem-solving; science can't do this alone.
These guys are canaries in the coal mine.
I thought Progressive Democrat prescribed "equity" was a "fatal flaw"?
Politics used to be about compromise. There used to be common ground that each polar opposite could agree on. Now, the divisive polarization caused by political correctness and identity politics, as well as it's social coping mechanism of intersectionality, has eroded that common ground away. The medical emergency claimed, due to the supposed Covid crisis, has given each polar opposite the ultimate power to wield over the other, with grandiose gestures, policies, and schemes bringing harm to the citizens they are supposed to represent. This is driven further by noisy pundits...unelected groups who give the citizens reasons to be outraged at these abuses of power...or purported victimization, as perpetrated by the very politics which generates these outrageous claims of fascism, racism, and nazism.
Stepping even farther back, there is a larger global movement which has been working behind the scenes for over 50 years. Starting with the Club of Rome, the idea of a global governance, which the UN has now adopted, are the elite and wealthy members of our global societies, which seek to wield the ultimate power over the countries of the world. Climate Change, formerly know as global cooling, then switching to global warming, is the mechanism with which they have, until now, used to implement their systematic control. Sustainable Development is the grand scheme which employs 17 main goals and numerous programs and sub-programs, to achieve this supposed move toward sustainability, saving us all from a dire and desolate future. With the introduction of the novel coronavirus, now know as Covid-19, these globalists saw an opportunity to expedite their plans in the power grab the medical emergency would give to each governing country. Having key players already infiltrated in various high positions, in both government and business sectors, we see the World Economic Form and International Monetary Fund chime in, pushing even harder to meet their globalist goals. With this obvious power and financial backing, there seems no stopping what seems to be a consorted effort for global dominance.
Through decades of indoctrination in our academic institutions, businesses, and activist groups, it seems that this was all inevitable. Knowing this does not help...not knowing how to fight against it is even worse. Perhaps those who we fear to not awaken, are the very people who should be awake? Barring recourse, of any sort, against this elite global coup, with their indoctrinated useful idiots, revolution may be the only way out of this terrible and overwhelming force, which seeks to enslave the world, for the supposed virtue of saving our planet...our environment...and thus sustainable balance. The only problem with their plan...the last bit of information they will not tell you...only 5 billion people will maintain this sustainable balance...3 billion people will need to be 'culled'. In which group do you and your family fall?
Thanks Jordan.
You are Describing Cognitive dissonance. (Their's more than 5 senses.)
At one time the scientific consensus was the earth was flat. Another was "no such thing as microscopic germs." Scientific consensus is a religion as it required "Faith."
Their's a difference between self defense and using violence for political change. Self defense is not radical but using violence in any form for political change IS radical and not moral.
I think Peterson himself has a certain amount of irrational paranoia concerning the left.
I wouldn't say irrational
JP talking about confirmation bias is the height of irony
First yeet
These 2 are so left. Jordan please stick to psychology and philosophy. Your political views are neither logical nor ethical.
That statement is so far right it's off the page. These two are
hardly AK toting revolutionaries.