The Flash Movie Is a Multiverse of Badness
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2023
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#theflash #theflashmovie #dccomics #dceu #flashpoint #superman #batman #supergirl - Zábava
It still disgusts me that in Warner's whole circle jerk Multiverse scene they used a CGI George Reeves, an actor who COMMITTED SUICIDE because he felt the role of Superman ruined his life. Amd the movie released on the anniversary of his death.
Talk about tone deaf.
Somehow, stuffing a baby in a microwave wasn't the most ghoulish thing in the movie.
Reeves death is still in question whether it was suicide or a murder . Things were going good for to take his own life .
@@speedracer1945 "Going good" is not a reliable indicator of a person's mental well-being, as it is impossible to determine as an outside observer how "good" another person is actually feeling, or how they are experiencing/interpreting events - countless suicides have come as a complete shock to friends and family, because the person in question, tragically, did not confide their emotional state or seek help, and their loved ones could not see the danger signs until it was too late. Many people who commit suicide, by all outward appearances are "doing well", are financially stable, well-adjusted emotionally, have friends and family, may even be famous
If preventing suicide was as simple as just looking at people who appear to be having a tough time, I suspect we would see a lot less of it happening... unfortunately things are rarely that simple, and suicidal thoughts can hit anyone, even if - from the outside - there doesn't appear to be any reason for it. Because taking your own life is not typically a reasonable, calculated course of action, such thoughts are not born from a direct correlation to tragic events and unfortunate situations - it comes from one's mental health condition, which is affected by a wide variety of factors, including but not limited to brain chemistry, hormone imbalance, prolonged exposure to stress factors, anxiety, or even more pathological, mental disorders - especially if undiagnosed or untreated.
TLDR; it's far more complex, than just whether things were "going good". And I apologize for the rant - I am somewhat sensitive on this subject, due to personal experiences.
Miller being cast as The Flash is reason enough to avoid this film.
Agreed and, also, so disappointing. Flash is my favourite DC hero. I’d like to be able to at least have a go at getting through his films.
@@joeslater2390He is good in the movie but his real life crimes killed this thing. I don't know why DC thought this would sell.
Agreed. It’d be like if Marvel made an Iron Man movie with Robert Downey Jr …
.
.
.
In 2001
Pretty much.
@@Ron-ep3zlBecause he was cast as the Flash, filmed in the other movies, as well as them already filmed a majority of the scenes with Miller. To redo the movie with a different actor would double the cost and obviously double the lost money. Keeping Miller in was probably just the best bet they had to lose the least amount of money.
Why do I get the feeling their take away will not be, "Let's make a better Flash movie next time," but rather, "Yep, we knew the Flash wasn't up to carrying a blockbuster on his own without Batman, let's just make more Batman stuff."
It's mindblowing how little studio execs seem to understand about what makes media popular and thus lucrative, despite that literally being their one and only job.
Makes one wonder how their own minds experience media
The Flash on the CW ran for 9 seasons. The Flash is one of the most well-known superheroes in pop culture. He is a key member of the Justice League. He has had a consistent solo book throughout the characters' existence. No way that guy could carry a solo movie.
The Flash will be going into the same void as Green Lantern did after 2011.
That was probably part of the film's problem. Fans of the show wanted the star of that show to have the role. You lost some of a decent pre-sold audience. @@BatDad1984
But, that was an even less well-thought out movie.@@DinoDave150
Just a reminder that Warner Bros, could have put up only $75 million to pay for their share of resolving the labor strikes and are now projected to lose $500 million.
Oh that’s very funny.
@@foxesofautumn Or unsurprising, given the $90m to $200m ratio Steve mentioned. If I was a shareholder I'd be asking the board how much longer they intended to hang on to the CEO and how much longer they figured they were going to be employed for themselves.
Good.
@@aaronleverton4221Honestly you have to wonder how much money got left to be bleeding money like they have been. Then wonder how and when there will be a truly massive shakeup to fix it all.
They expect a PR firm to make people suddenly like them.
So...The Flash was trying to be...Everything Everywhere All At Once?
There's a reason that when I bought my ticket to see this movie, I announced I was watching, "Batman Returns Again"
As I said on your other SM posts when you announced this video, I want more Sasha Calle as Kara. IMO, she owned that role.
I mean, she's fine. But she doesn't have much to work with. Despite the amount of screentime she gets, there isn't a whole lot to this version of Supergirl as a character. There's nothing that makes me particularly interested in seeing her again. Her costume and overall look was cool.
I'd LOVE a young justice league with Sasha's Kara
@@SteveShives
Even in the short screen time she got, I thought she had more screen presence than Cavill ever gave his Superman.
I will grant, however, that her character in the movie doesn't work without the knowledge of A version of Superman. I also do agree the movie should have been Flash focused. I disagree about those being the better parts, but that's mostly because I don't like Miller.
@@firefly4f4 it's a shame we won't see a Superman/Cavill + Supergirl/Calle movie with their different approaches of being a hero (calm vs raging) and the dynamic between them.
But maybe that could become something like "Enola Holmes 3".
The problem with the Barry Allen Flash is that his 2 biggest events in comics are either killing himself to save the multiverse or killing the multiverse to save himself. They could have ignored all of that to make him fight a psychic gorilla while trying to date a budding reporter but alas. They made a film about 3 supporting characters (past Barry, Batman and Supergirl) who won’t exist at the end of the film even if things went perfectly.
Excellent comment
I would loved to watch a Flash movie with him fighting Gorilla Grodd and building his relationship with Iris West, a simple story, that's all I wanted as a Flash fan. But instead they made this garbage.
I’m saying this without seeing the movie, but from what I can tell, this failed as a multiverse movie because the multiverse told Barry nothing about himself. Spider-Verse is about using the multiverse to show what makes Miles special. No Way Home used the multiverse to show that Peter Parker’s compassion is his greatest power. Multiverse of Madness used it to teach Doctor Strange that he doesn’t always need to be the one holding the scalpel. There were plenty of fun multiverse nods in each one, but the core was about the protagonist. It seems to me that The Flash forgot that part. The time travel stuff was about Barry, but the multiverse was a tacked on cameo fest.
and that goes with the point i think steve was trying to make ... Marvel and DC have been at war since their original creation ... and for the most part in terms of certain aspects DC has always been behind and just riding Marvels coat-tails ... definitely in terms of the MCU vs the DCEU since Marvel did it first DC will always struggle to play catch up ... unfortunately they fell too far behind this time by waiting too long theres no way they can ever be on equal ground -- no matter how many reboots they come up with if they dont at least make an attempt to break the 'team-based multiverse formulaic mold' that Marvel has had years to perfect they will never stand a chance at succeeding with their own products.
I keep saying to everybody that the cameo from Christopher Reeves' Superman doesn't even make sense because he shows up to show Barry how bad it is to go back in time to save someone even though that Superman literally went back in time to save Margot Kidder from an earthquake.
@@sinswhisper9588DC had the more iconic characters. DCAU easily was better than Marvel's animated except Spider Man or X Men. DC could have been on top of the cinematic world but dtopped the ball.
This is a bit spoiler-y (if you haven't seen this video, since it does include this spoiler), but it's the only way to explain it. The film comes really close to using the Multiverse aspect to at least teach Barry a lesson, getting Barry to accept bad things happen and you can't just go back in time and fix them because that will have consequences, too, but then the movie swerves and has him still change a thing at the very end.
Aside from that, the most the Multiverse aspect does for interrogating Barry the character is tell us he's matured because we have a far less mature version of the character (making even worse jokes) annoying him by being immature, which would work...if this wasn't his second film (his cameos in BvS and Suicide Squad don't count) and we'd actually seen him growing as a character, rather than what we got. That is arguably a function of the time travel, but they're so intertwined in this film so as to be indistinguishable.
*SPOILERS*
Thanks for recognizing you haven't seen the movie, cause if you did you'd realize the multiverse in The Flash was 100% used as a means to portray Barry's mental instability. The multiverse experience was all about Barry realizing what defines him as a superhero, be it his desire to do what's best for others or his inability to let go of trauma. Should it be the former, the world would benefit from his presence, while the latter would bring catastrophe to the fabric of reality regardless of what his intentions were.
There's cameos in the movie, but these cameos aren't meant to be celebrated. You follow Supergirl and Keaton's Batman as secondary leads, but their presence in this new, altered reality, only leads to their deaths. You see George Reeves, Christopher Reeve, Nicholas Cage, and Adam West, but at the expense of their worlds being literally destroyed. All of this because Barry (any of them) couldn't help but further mess with time in an effort to undo what isn't meant to be undone. This realization is what furthers him as a character.
The ending may be at fault here for contradicting this development by having Barry try to save his father anyways in service of a cheap gag at the end, but the script doesn't endorse this decision, yet again denying Barry his expected happy ending while reinforcing the narrative of the importance of letting go. All of the cameos, plot twists and rules serve this point, and that's why the emotional moments in the film are so effective: the plot is always focused in one journey, one theme.
One thing that has annoyed me about Ezra Miller is they, insofar as I can tell, is a very capable actor. Really good, even. But I am so repulsed by their criminal actions and seeming nonchalance about their behavior that I have real trouble even watching what they did.
Do you mean he?
@@vfta7906 No, we mean they.
Their apparent criminal behavior is in part fabricated, as the accusation of running a cult, grooming and abducting a child proved false. Ezra is currently on rehab but WB basically swallowing all the accusations thinking they would just die down - and focusing the movie on Batman instead - is likely what doomed it.
@@vfta7906Go prove your dumbass point elsewhere.
@@vfta7906 Ezra Miller is a non-binary person that uses "they/them" pronouns (among others). Just because they seem to be an awful person in many ways doesn't automatically mean there's a need to misgender them.
What went wrong? With the exception of a few early Superman and a couple of Batman flicks, DC can't make live action films if the fate of the world depended on it.
Animated? DC is king.
Why they've never just decided to let whoever is in charge of the animated movies be in charge of the LA movies is beyond me. Maybe James Gunn can turn things around, The Suicide Squad was pretty good and the GotG movies are easily the best MCU films...
WB execs are incapable of making good decisions
The problem started with when Warner and DC got so Batman fan boy they wanted EVERYTHING to be that grim dark world. Superman was treated like a Guinea pig experiment, desperately trying to make a Superman movie si far removed from what Superman really is ( ahem John Peters). Finally we got Superman Returns. And hey great Singer is gonna use the Donner verse version. Except instead of a love letter to Donner , Singer made something more akin to a stalkers note. Using Donners version and world, without all the charm, love, feeling, emotion, essence of Donner's creation. Returns was decent, deservered a sequel, but should have been a separate entity. As it had no feel or connection to 1 and 2 Donner cut. Returns disappointed and the execs felt it failed because it was too old fashioned. That the Donner verse wasn't relevent or relateable in todays world. Only problem was this wasn't Donner's universe. Just complete plagiarism with no love. So now Superman has to be dark. He has to be moody. He's got to have psychological hero complex and ambiguous morals. Throw in the Synderite fanbots and the ever need to deconstruct the heros we all love and admire. Funny enough if you scroll CZcams and see the reactions to first time seeing Superman , everybody agrees it's the best thing they've ever seen. I just hope Gunn does the right thing
@@auntiewewe972 Zack Snyder had no business making movies that involve characters like Superman, the Flash, and Wonder Woman. He really doesn't even deserve to make Batman movies but at least those kind of fit his whole vibe, if you only ever read the Frank Miller stories lol
@@lazerbeam134 Snyder clearly read Miller's famous "What are you, ret***ed or something?" "I'm the goddamn Batman" and knew he had to bring that glorious vision to life on the big screen for the good of all mankind, like the idiotic frat boy he is at heart.
If that can of tomatoes had already been in the house... then Barry's Dad might have been killed too. I mean, we have no idea how Barry's Mom died. We have no idea who the killer is. Why would we assume that Henry's presence would prevent it? I don't see why Barry would assume that and the viewer certainly wouldn't since in most versions of the story it's the Reverse Flash who's the killer.
Well, apart from the notion that in the 'tomatoes timeline' there's no attack at all because there's no future where a Reverse-Flash exists thanks to a Barry Allen Flash that never existed... I'll say that both parents at home at least gives better chances that one of them would be able to escape with Barry while the other sacrifices themselves as a delay.
@@chrisblake4198 Not if the killer is a metahuman it doesn't and we the audience know that there's a good chance it's Reverse Flash, who could kill both parents before they even knew he was in the room. I think that this plot point would work better if we knew the circumstances of the killing. Leaving it open as they did - doubtless with an eye to introducing a Reverse Flash related plot in a future movie - just invites too many question for my taste. And Barry can hardly be following the logic you outline about the Reverse Flash never existing, because he doesn't know any of that. It's a clunky plot point however you slice it and that's a problem because it's the plot point that drives the entire movie.
The only explanation I can think of is that the murder was a breaking and entering gone wrong, like the killer only entered the house because they saw the car leaving, but that's me filling in a lot of blanks that the writers want left empty for future films
The Flash should have included the Reverse Flash as the killer of Barry's mom and the framer of his dad, like the Flashpoint comic book.
@@Eric-md3mp I believe Barry speculated exactly that theory in the film. I think it was when he was telling Iris the story about what happened to his mom before he decided to change the past
I liked this version of Supergirl, I just felt she was wasted being an object of lust for other Barry. Plus I don't know how Zod was able to stab her but that's a whole other thing.
Yes, the only good part of this movie was Supergirl and they felt what they should do with her is kill her repeatedly. The essence of fridging.
@Yibambe. I am glad that the filmmakers felt comfortable doing that and didn't worry about people calling them out for fridging or sexism. It was part of the story they wanted to tell. Batman died over and over again too.
I haven’t seen the movie, but the movie seems to be based on the Flashpoint Comics. In the comics, Superman was found when he was a baby by the government and kept away from the sun which resulted in him not being fully powered. I am wondering if the movie follows the same story line with Supergirl. The clips seemed Steve showed seemed to suggest that she was kept from the sun, resulting in her not having her full powers, which may have allowed her to be stabbed. That said, I haven’t seen the movie. In the comics, Superman was extremely emaciated, which is not the case in the movie with Supergirl.
@@travismoore7938That's exactly what it was. One for one swap. And it worked. The have yet to hear a complaint about that, something you always do when it comes to swapping out a male character with a female one. There is a IU reason in the movie that I won't tell though.
Kryptonian metal.
They didn't really hit the Young Barry has a crush on Supergirl thing as much as I was expecting (if at all).
I think I enjoyed your summary more than the 2.5 hours I spent on the film.
In regards to Man of Tomorrow, it's worth noting that the non-Superman characters in it at least fit the underlying themes of the film. Since it's so focused on our xenophobia and Clark's decision to challenge it instead of hiding his powers, Lobo's rampaging nature is a good catalyst for the film's conflict and Martian Manhunter is the perfect foil to Superman as a character whose form is exactly what we fear, but who can hide it perfectly. It seems like The Flash chose to include their non-Flash characters without even so much as a good rationale.
haven't actually seen the movie but based on your summary I'd say the issue is that Barry didn't actually learn anything. Small change causes massive problems so he reverses that change and then... makes a different small change and doesn't realize this will also change things in unpredictable ways.
"Batfleck into Battlejuice" is genius.
For me, even before reports of Miller getting away with various crimes came to light, I was lukewarm about going to any theater to see a Flash movie when I could just stay home and watch the Flash TV show. In it's 8-plus seasons, it not only already did the "Thawne killed Barry's mom" storyline, but also Flashpoint, and even adapted Crisis on Infinite Earths.
I wish Zod succeeded in terra forming the earth in Man of Steel. It might have spared us 10 years of DCEU movies.
In Superman man of tomorrow, Martian Manhunter and Lobo do play important roles in Superman's story in that film. The movie focused with Clark living in a world that fears aliens, and both Lobo and Martian Manhunter show paths that Clark could take. Clark could take the path of Lobo, who cares about no one but himself, or the path of Martian Manhunter, which is of self-preservation. Clark however as Superman, chose the path to be an alien known to the world that helps people. It's also important that Martian Manhunter and Lobo are the last of their respective races, which was supposedly the case for Superman. Not to mention that Lobo serves as the catalyst of the events of the film, while Martian Manhunter serves as an ally that can relate with Superman. Superman man of tomorrow is a great Superman movie that focuses on Superman.
Steve is usually better at picking up stuff like that, so I'm unsure how he missed that the roles Lobo and J'onn J'onzz played in Man of Tomorrow was all about Superman.
@@snakebitcat I picked up on it. It's just not relevant to my criticism of Lobo and Manhunter's presence in the movie. My problem isn't that their characters weren't relevant to the story the movie tells -- my problem is that they're there at all.
@@SteveShiveswith respect, I don't think that Lobo and Martian Manhunter being in Superman man of tomorrow was a detriment to the story that the film was trying to tell.
and once AGAIN we see that snyder rot is STILL so embedded in the DC filmverse, that while they had to (reluctantly no doubt) admit that the sun exists in outdoor scenes, they decided to have the indoor scenes, LIT DARKER THAN A FUCKING COAL MINE!
The Execs demand "Dark" movies, and they get them, no matter what. ;)
I feel its a shame they didn't at least show Grant Gustin in the multiverse.
Still bummed that Cyborg never got a standalone live action movie.🤖
I'd have actually paid to see that movie because the actor they got for him played the part very well. The only problem is how the studio executives keep getting involved and derailing the stories in the last decade of DC live action movies. The studio just wants to sell tickets rather than a good movie, unfortunately.
He was totally f'ed over (wrongly so) by speaking out against Joss. As you may tell from my handle, I'm a fan of Joss' previous work, but the stuff I've learned about the man himself since I chose said handle has soured me on him.
It won't be 100% what you're after, but if you want more Cyborg, go watch Doom Patrol. It's excellent, and actually makes use of Cyborg, unlike either version of Justice League.
Idk what the DC refresh will look like but there is still hope.
I'm not... They would have screwed it up
Maybe it's just me, but the idea that there's some kind of repeatable sequence of steps that can be followed to give somebody Flash powers and that the results are reliable and repeatable is absolutely hilarious to me. You could literally just make anybody the Flash if you put them in this specially-designed chair when there's lightning going on.
Actually, it seems like a pretty genius way to write out Ezra Miller at the least. It's totally stupid otherwise, of course, but still.
As much as I love the Flash: Flashpoint story in the comics & the DC Animated movie, I agree, the whole idea of anyone recreating a freak one-in-a-billion accident perfectly is utterly ludicrous.
I let it go cause it's such a great great GREAT story, but yeah, it's ridiculous.
That plot summary sounds like an actually solid and interesting twist on the Flashpoint Paradox. How did they mess up the execution on this so badly?
Cause WB has be meesing up its DC universe since forever.
So much so AT&T (people forget they were owned by them) sold WB away wholesale to Discovery of all people...The Discovery Channel.
I love the Discovery Channel, but selling a entertainment IP such as WB to such a company way out of the wheelhouse..
It's no wonder everything got canned, Discovery doesn't know anything about WB entertainment.
They (Discovery) don't release movies, they are a educational, he renovation, part drama network that makes their money on streaming their library and using their biggest home renovation stars to new shows.
If DC fans understood how business works they know only some of the decisions where DC/WB done.
WB messed up fine on their own but I'm sure the mess is what caused the sale.
I thought the movie was great…I’m not even a big DC fan…I didn’t like Justice League, Batman V Superman or even the first Wonder Woman movie that everyone else loved…I guess what I enjoyed so much about The Flash was seeing Michael Keaton as Batman again, Supergirl, and the Flash character…it didn’t matter to me that The Flash wasn’t more prominent in the movie…I thought he was in it enough to warrant calling it a Flash movie
They didn't, in my opinion. The film kinda threatens to loose its way when the larger multiverse elements start popping up, but overall it always feels focused on Barry's reactions and growth to this entire ordeal. The emotional angle pays off spectacularly in my opinion. If you haven't seen the movie yet and feel any sort of attachment to the larger DC live action canon I'd encourage you to give it a shot. Plenty of people do like it, both on the critics and the audience side, and if you can get on board with its brand of irreverent humor, there's very little that's going to bother you.
@@vietnamd0820 I thought Flash was very prominent actually. The secondary characters get one elaborate set piece for themselves, but the story doesn't allow them to overshadow the entire point of their presence: to highlight how Barry's actions inadvertently brought tragedy to the people around him. They're treated as the consequence of a screw up, their presence always signaling an impending doom that forces Barry to reflect on his choices and take a more responsible approach to his powers.
@@a7000zo Which he still fails to do. "Bruce was right... but actually no."
25:18 Yeah, but the difference in Man of Tomorrow is that Martian Manhunter and Lobo DO service Superman's story for the movie. There's a throughline of him being scared of exposing his alien nature due to humanity fearing them, and having those characters around serve to demonstrate their differing perspectices on the matter- Martian Manhunter hid in secret, already pessimistic given what he's seen of humanity, and Lobo frankly doesn't give a shit since he blew up his own planet. They fit the themes of the film.
That last line was so funny. Thanks, Steve.
Barry: See Other Barry? This is why we can't have nice things.
The "un-kill two birds with one can" gag was great.
So the part of The Flash movie that's good was originally called the Time Machine and was published in 1922 by H. G. Wells. I liked the 2002 movie version with Guy Pearce.
Flesh-hungry Morelocks!
I bet that if the movie was 15 minutes longer, we would get not only a bunch of batmen, supermen and jay garrick cameos, but also the changelings, the borg and a holographic moriarty
😂😂😂
As much as I love what you do, THIS is my favorite content you put out, a good ole' critique.
I'm not bothered by the use of Martian Manhunter and Lobo in the movie because it's all about the themes The three characters represent 3 different methods of reacting to being a stranger or last of your kind.
The fact you said those 2 are in the movie and I never heard of them in that movie is wildy entertaining to me
@@danielland3767like deadass
12:48-12:56
"a very drunk aquaman. and that's it! so, why?"
because aquaman drinks like a fish.
My theory about why the movie tanked is partly the prior controversy about the star Ezra Miller's offscreen crimes. The other part is the negative fatalism message it teaches, straight out of Star Trek's "City On the Edge of Forever!" It tells a time-traveling superhero not to time-travel, especially for a family emergency! This movie also tells a superhero not to save lives or even the world! Worst of all, it tells Flash and us that the fate of the universe depends on civilian casualties!
The Warner Discovery team up should never have happened.
Mindboggling that there's no Grant Gustin cameo, and can't forget to mention John Westley Shipp should have been there too (if they're going to be so overwrought with the cameos).
They must have really hated that the CW pulled off a better and more loved extended universe than Warner Bros could no matter how much money they set on fire trying.
Because there's no reason to not have him do a cameo when they put Nicolas Cage in - a character who isn't the flash from a movie that never happened.
The CGI Golden Age Flash did look a lot like John Westley Shipp in that role, at least the CW version. Probably just filed enough numbers off to avoid paying the actor.
Interesting that Super(wo)man's story (lightyears away and years earlier) changes by Barry doing a local change on Earth just a few years back. It's like the writers didn't care about causality.
I think this is spot on. I liked the flash movie. It was the half of a supergirl and half of a Batman Beyond movie in the middle that I thought was the issue.
What went wrong...Warner decided that Ezra Miller's behavior was ok as long as they made money...
Typically a first solo movie is either an origin story, an introduction to a new iteration of a character (like Pattinson's Batman), or a showcase for a character (or iteration) who's recently been introduced (like Tom Holland Spidey or Black Panther). Flash is such a weird solo movie, a showcase for a character we met six years ago. One with bad CG, overstuffed with characters, and a nearly nonexistent villain presence.
I think that Warner should lean in to the Multiverse angle, and make separate movies or short arcs of movies; each starting with a title saying which Earth this film is set on. That way, they could make pretty much anything they want. Of course, that would involve some creativity on the part of the bloated corporation and its energy vampire management.
I sort of feel like I've seen Flash Point a dozen times already. It's almost in the same category as Uncle Ben's death.
That multiverse scene confounds me still. I’ve been hyperfixating about live action DC universes recently and I discovered that the Arrowverse’s Crisis On Infinite Earths event did a very similar thing to The Flash, but better. The difference is, it has a purpose! The characters from other universes at least get a line or two in and actually play a role in the events that are transpiring, whether it be Singerverse Superman redeeming himself or 90’s Flash sacrificing himself, everyone has a reason to be there. Sure it was nice to see Nic Cage as Burtonverse Superman, but I’d prefer if he actually belonged here in some way and, y’know, *did* something!
Pretty simple flowchart for this question: Is it a DC property? Yes. Is it directed by C. Nolan or Tim Burton? No = terrible movie. Yes = Pretty good movie
From the jump the idea that a can of tomatoes is the turning point for this story is ridiculous. Sure it keeps his dad out of prison but given the nature of the murder, of which they offer frustratingly few details because Hollywood is incapable of learning even the most basic lessons and the actual killer was supposed to be the main villain in the sequel, it seems like he'd lose his dad in another way since he'd almost certainly be killed too. An interview with the director seems to indicate that Reverse Flash would be the bad guy for the sequel. Probably would've made a good bad guy for this movie but what can you do, go back and reshoot it while you're reshooting the terrible and nonsensical ending? Don't be silly.
I hate this movie.
Man of Tomorrow being weird is due to the fact that they were very obviously trying to ape off of American Alien while being legally distinct. At least from my point of view.
Wait I thought Tomorrow was *supposed* to be an adaptation of American Alien? (I thought American Alien was great) I had no idea it was meant to start a new universe.
Distinct from what? I recognized that story as Max Landis' American Alien right away. They didn't credit him, did they?
"Outside of Zack Snyder's maniacally devoted cult following" That's why I love you! Thank you for existing!
I love how we start out the movie with the DC version of Kirk's "i need my pain" speech only to end it with the DC version of Pike's realization in Quality of Mercy
I gotta give Steve some respect for this review, and not to mention "Baby Shower" except as an allusion to "bad CGI". I TOTALLY would have harped on that for a while myself.
Cramming Barry and Clark into the JSA's only solo movie made me irrationally upset. They cut half of the original team and then had the nerve to add on two of the most overexposed characters in the DC roster that have never even been a part of the JSA. Explicitly. Absolutely ridiculous.
The only thing I'd like to point out is, because of its tortured production, the decision to 'go multiverse' almost certainly came before it was generally known that would be the main thrust of the MCU post-Endgame. It's WB's fault for screwing things up, but they could have been first to the well. I kind of wish they had, because that might mean Marvel would feel pressure to do a better job than they have been so far.
I get how the tax write off worked for Batgirl but can anyone explain to me how the tax write off works for Final Space? A show that had already been canceled and WB had (presumably) already made the money it was going to make off of it? At that point that just sounds like stealing from the government.
Yes
What's disappointing is that with as much a mess as Flashpoint is, it could have been used as a powerful tool to transition the DCEU into Gunn's era instead of just farting around and chasing that multiverse concept. I get that it wasn't even a thought considering the time frames of production and the announcement that they were shuttering that era of the DCEU, but I think they still could have done it with literally one change: Cut the Clooney gag. That's it. The court scene wrapped up the plot, everything past that was prime real estate to tease their new rebooted universe
Something that might be an issue for the film (or maybe not, since it’s all Warner Brothers) is that the Golden Age Flash, Jay Garrick, looks an awful lot like Teddy Sears who played “Jay Garrick” in the Flash tv show, and anything I’ve read about it says that Sears was not involved with the movie in any way, so you’ve either got an overzealous CGI department who never watched the full show, or it’s an AI creation that also doesn’t know how that season turned out.
I’m super glad to see him, but it’s a little worrying that he still wasn’t involved (and is likely one of the many reasons the acting strike is still ongoing)
Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out.
I think the biggest sin of the new Flash is that it fundamentally destroys the michael Keaton batman universe. The whole climax happens when they realize it has to happen and that universe is doomed. But that means that all the michael Keaton movies have an end point with Zod too. This movie literally destroyed the Keaton Batman universe. A lot of us were still hoping for him to return as batman for a beyond movie which seems even less likely now
It’s possible that CEOs are stupid enough that the only lesson they will learn from the flash movie is that Batman is more popular than the flash and they should’ve just made another one of those in which case you may get your wish. And they will make a new Batman movie
The main reason I've had trouble investing in any DC project is the numerous retcons and reboots, I'd rather enjoy some depth and watching heroes and villains alike having to deal with and overcome the consequences they've wrought on their world and each other. I can't imagine I'm alone in this sentiment.
I wholeheartedly agree that Ezra is a tire fire, but he makes a good Barry.
Fun fact, well, Flash fact even: There IS a Flash villain in the 2023 Flash movie, and I'm not talking about Evil Future Other Barry:
Doctor Alchemy AKA Mister Element is in that movie, or at least someone who shares his civilian identity: 2023 Barry's co-worker and 2013 alternate Barry's roommate Albert Desmond. Why? No idea!
Am I right in thinking the amount of money this movie lost could settle the current ongoing strikes?
How?
I watched this the other day, a day or two after it hit my Canadian streaming service that is only maybe slightly better than Max (getting worse, as Paramount+ tries to push into this market, ending agreements for other streamers to have Star Trek). It was a weird combination of better and worse than I'd expected. There were times I didn't hate Ezra Miller's performance (young Barry was too annoying, older Barry was usually meh, but Miller pulls off some of the important moments and does a good job of making the two Barrys feel like two different characters), but I was happy to see Affleck put in a solid performance (the lasso gag was unnecessary and had me merely shaking my head, saying "didn't we essentially do this already?"), Keaton was rather good (and I'm not a big fan of his Bats) especially in his spaghetti explanation , Sasha Calle played an interesting Supergirl I'd've loved to see more, and aspects of the story, etc. do work or come from a good spot. The Speed Force is a major detriment, along with a lot of other CGI (the babies, obviously), but the ending is also rather weak, particularly as it undoes the bit of growth Barry seemed to have, as he fails to learn the lesson (whether it's good or not) that you can't just change the past. Did the movie deserve to bomb so much? Maybe not, but I attribute that more to background things than the movie itself, with the movie just failing to be enough to get people past those background things.
My main feeling after seeing this: if this is a movie that WB was so in love with (praised even by James Gunn, among others), then I want to know what Batgirl was like, given claims are it wasn't up to snuff. Was it so much worse, or are their priorities badly misaligned? Then again, I'm also of the opinion that studios shouldn't be able to write down projects like Batgirl (certainly not for a lot), it feels too much like tax fraud to me.
1.) Why doesn't Barry eat something before leaving home? 2.) The significant differences between alt-timeline1 and original timeline all happened _before_ Barry's tomato adventure. 3.) When they go back in time during the battle they should have been duplicating themselves - enough Flashes running around and even Kryptonians must fall! It makes no sense for the Flashes who were present at the beginning of the battle to not be there when the 'defeated' Flashes come back to the beginning of the battle. (It would be lovely if the actress who played the Supergirl from the Flash movie would play a Supergirl who arrives on Mainstream Earth via her spacecraft, meets Superman, Batman, etc., and has adventures learning about life on Earth - do it mainly as 'comedy' and 'character development', with the 'fight a powerful villain' being a case of being drawn into someone else's fight. With the right writers and director I would pay good money to see that!)
Honestly the reason why Barry is always late or waiting for something is by the comics lore also.
He sees everything even thoughts in slow motion so he always thinks he has plenty of time to order and get food and to his goal because to his own view shows he does.
But he constantly does not consider only he is the abnormal speeded one, it is a silly gag but a explained one.
@@jasonrollins8217
That is actually quite a neat gag.
Barry constantly drumming his fingers and cursing at how slow everyone else is.
An aspect as to why this film didn't work for me is that Michael Keaton as Batman is that it _wasn't_ the same character as he played in the two Burton movies.
In _Spider-Man: Far From Home_ Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield's Spider-Men _felt_ like their characters from their movies, whereas Michael Keaton was more akin to J.K. Simmons playing J. Jonah Jameson. Same actor, but playing a different version of the character.
As such, I wasn't invested in Batman as I was in "Peter 1" and "Peter 2" He was a temporal anomalaly that shouldn't exist in the status quo. An echo of the Batman I was familiar with, not really _the_ Batman himself. As such, his death didn't matter. Even if he didn't die in battle, his existence would've been erased when Barry realised the error of his ways and re-set the DCEU to how it was. And out there, in the multiverse, Batman of the Burtonverse still exists, completely unaffected by the events of this film.
This was a multiverse storyline. What's stopping them from going "all in"? Have characters from a modern day superhero film suddenly find themselves in Burton's gothic, art-deco nightmare. To quote Bruce Wayne- "You want nuts? Let's go nuts!"
Kind of a weird take but I feel like this movie needed Dr Fate instead of batman. Barry is attempting to rewrite history in a very scientific way, 'if I change this then that will be different', but keeps running headlong into the fact that no matter what he does, certain events are simply fated to transpire. It seems like a science vs magic story that was missing the representative of magic
Yeah, but then people would claim that they were directly copying Spider-Man: No Way Home. Plus, then they'd have to waste time introducing Dr. Fate.
A video about the flash movie- criticizing the flash movie for incorporating too much non flash stuff- and the video is interrupted with too much non flash movie stuff. Well played, Steve.
Heh. "Other Barry."
In the comics I wonder if Barry ever uses time travel not to mess with the past but to simply arrive at his destination at the same moment he starts running
Yes he does. In one comic, he travels to Earth before a person that can instantly teleport.
Can we also talk about the fact the Miller's Flash is very obviously coded as high functioning autistic or at the very least Neurodivergent and how immensely problematic it is that "other Barry" /isn't/ since his mom is alive? That's not how Neurodivergence works and it plays into a LOT of dangerous misconceptions on the subject. Love your breakdowns Shives, please keep up the great work.
Well... that laughter is not quite right...
Really? Old Barry was at pains to point out how "abrasive" and socially inept Young Barry is... as was OB himself, when we first met him in Justice League.
I don't think Younger Barry isn't ND, it just presented differently
You're reading too much into it
Batman Beyond movie starring Michael Keaton. New Supergirl movie. Long-awaited Flash movie. Separately, these would have been great, but it's like mixing all of your paints and expecting a fantastic rainbow: what you get is actually a dull brownish-purple that nobody likes.
Anyone can do what I did, if they do what I did. - Me half remembering a quote I think was attributed to Frederick Matthias Alexander of the Alexander Technique
I’ve heard it said before that Marvel didn’t have access to their A-list heroes so they had to make do with Iron Man, but what a blessing! That means they had to make us care! Or, they didn’t have to, they could’ve tried to jumpstart the MCU, but then nobody would’ve cared.
Everybody wants to have an MCU, nobody wants to build an MCU, perhaps even Marvel at this point.
Great work as ever Steve, I already did use my imagination and I have to say, It's a huge shame the writers of this drivel did not use theirs.
I love that a huge amount of this review was about a Superman movie. That has to be intentional irony on Steve's part, right?
I said it when I saw the trailers but the marketing gave the impression that it was embarrassed about being a flash movie
Sasha Calle's Supergirl was the only decent element of this movie for me. She deserves another shot with the character, in my opinion.
Instead of Batman they have brought in the actors from the TV series, at least that way it would have been more focused on the Flash character. Have the TV versions of Barry and Jay try to teach the Ezra version about the dangers of time travel then introduce the movie version of reverse Flash.
Great video. Summed up everything I thought about the movie. Best wishes from England.
DC should have started with a stand alone Flash movie with Reverse Flash and then moved into the Flashpoint as a Justice League movie with Barry coming to the realization of his time travel solution at the end of the stand alone film. The Flashpoint movie could have been one about the danger to the timeline that Barry is in instead of multi-verse and that could have been a true reboot with new actors in that the timeline is destroyed but in its destruction births a new timeline with new actors.
A thing about films being required to be a big success one weekend at start to be judged a success -well, when I was younger, or not working, or able, I would go to see movies day or weekend of release, to avoid spoilers. At times, like Avengers, or some modern Star Wars, I couldn't get a friends to go with, or I wasn't dating -so I would go myself, and then go with another like a week later. Yes, I did go on a date to see two Harry Potter, one Tolkien film, even Spiderman. Currently, my Father has developed Dementia, and had been living with me for a year and half. I did have a home-care service, to be with my Dad, when I work part-time, as at the Library, in afternoon shifts. I need to arrange for care 7 days ahead. Even for a "mental health day". So, "Guardians of the Galaxy 3" I didn't realize would be so long, so I needed to bail and get home, before the end. I called for care to see "The Flash", and they could not fill that shift,...so I could not go, opening weekend. I got care to go see "Oppenheimer" -now, my Dad is in the hospital, again. I can see a movie, yet, I have my 83 year old Dad on my mind.
I did watch most of The Flash TV series, most of the Arrowverse. The last year of those shows, I set on my DVR, yet caring for my Dad, it was not easy to watch TV -his needs and Dementia.
I want to see Dune pt.2, which they have pushed into next year, with the writer/Actor strike...I had care to see Dune pt.1, as I read the novels, and saw previous adaptations. I do not know of my Dad's health, next Spring, yet if Hollywood expects people in their 50's to run to the cinema, or do streaming -give it some time, to declare success or failure! "Riders of the Lost Ark" stayed in the cinema for like a year in 1981 -I saw it 8 times, in my youth. I'm not so young, and have duty of Life or Family.
I saw The Flash on Blu-ray, finally. It's fun. I get the references. It has problems,...I can't turn back time to make a movie great.
Honestly, my big problem with the movie is one I haven't seen a ton of people mention before: there is a weird misogynist bent to the film. In Man of Steel, Superman is able to take care of Zod with little to no actual problem. Yet, Kara, is killed by him thousands, if not millions, of times, which requires Barry to keep trying to save her. Is the subliminal message that men (Man) is better than women (Girl)?
or that kara had not seen the sun in decades so she was under powered, that's at least how i saw it
or that she was locked in a cell for decades and didnt get to use her powers.
I realized the same thing the day after I saw this movie.
I actually quite liked the idea behind its time travel/universe hopping though its safe to say that idea would have been better explored in a different movie.
As usual, very well done, Steve. I agree with many of your points. As far as your last point and final question, " Does the journey The Flash goes through (convoluted sludge as it may be) make it a worthwhile story?" I disagree. If you look at it as a parallel to Flash's journey, it does make the film easier to appreciate. My contention of its main failure (along with all your great points): Ezra Miller's personal failures turned off a major segment of the intended audience, who stayed away from the film.
To give the film some credit I liked the spaghetti timeline explanation.
You could just have easily asked "What went right?" but that's the topic for a youtube short.
I will say that despite not being a very well-developed character, I really liked Sasha Calle's Supergirl and I hope they find some way to bring her back. It's not just that she is very pretty (although she is); it's because I saw some background footage, specifically of her learning that she'd got the part. She was so enthusiastic and joyous and grateful for the role, and in a better film, I think that passion could really deliver some great performances.
My biggest challenge with this. Erosion of Flash was Snyder’s decision to make him a goofy kid similar to Impulse or Beast Boybfrom the Teen Titans over the confident forensic scientist who is an emotional and intellectual peer of the rest of the adult league. Dipping into the multiverse was a great opportunity to showcase what makes the Flash the Flash by looking at different versions of the Flash and/or showing his ability to access varying universes which could later be used to help the audience understand how DC movie universe will change later (implying that the Snyder verse is respected and will remain in in its own universe).
This move would’ve allowed for cameos of the WB Flash (again letting the audience know it’s all connected and get ready to look at other universes, especially the new one coming up)
Why is Supergirl never called Supergirl!?
Best parts were Barry and his family, especially his mom.
One thing I think didn't help was how long it took to make. For context the entire CW run of The Flash happened in the time it took to make this movie. It was announced the same week episode 2 of the show aired. Also Ezra's behaviour off screen first in Hawai'i and then with what was accused of them with the girl and cult like stuff obviously had a massive impact on who wanted to go watch it. Then like has been the case with the DCEU a large number of Flash fans just didn't go watch it because they don't like the Snyderverse and in particular this weird adaption of Barry.
Personally I was entertained enough by it. No real surprise the best stuff was the Batman stuff though
I didn't come away from this movie thinking it was bad so much as it was underwhelming. It had its moments, but I didn't really feel any different after watching it. I actually was alright with it being "Man of Steel but The Flash", I like the idea of seeing one event from different perspectives, and I thought the fight scenes involved were pretty cool (I'm a sucker for a team up where it's not just two characters fighting one character individually but actually working together, like with Other Barry and Kara against Zod). Even still, the events therein felt weightless. It could have been just about any impossible-to-change battle and Barry would have learned the same lesson in the end, the only thing that tied him to this one was that they canonically put him there and he wasn't able to save who he wanted to back then either.
As for Ezra Miller, I was planning on skipping the movie because of them, but in what might be a titanic amount of copium, I wondered if it was fair to discount the efforts of the hundreds of other people who worked on that movie because I didn't like one of the actors. I still don't know if there is a 'right' thing to do in this situation, nor do I know if I'd use that same justification for whatever other movie they show up in as Barry.
Not seeing it to affect Miller financially or something was always silly since they already got paid
It's another superhero multi-verse movie that spent a lot of time in production hell. Even without all the other stuff, that's still the kiss of death 💋
It’d be great if the DC stuff wasn’t spread across multiple streaming services.
The plot of this movie is like the episode of Tuff Puppy where Dudley goes back in time 1 minute to get a donut and ends up creating an alternate reality where the villain rules the world, but unironically.
So glad I decided to just rewatch Across The Spiderverse again
Great review, thank you.
When you made that comment about 20 mins in about “I don’t give a shit what’s fair to him” I laughed so hard, very good job articulating this sewage-laced “movie”.
The best Flash adaptation was the 1990 series with John Wesley Shipp.
As someone who went into it ready to riff that fucking film inside out, once I got past that first act, I actually found myself appreciating it... on some level, at least. You hit on most of the reasons why. But I'm surprised you had nothing to say about Supergirl. Keaton's Batman was fun, unsurprisingly, but I found myself genuinely wanting to see this version of her keep going in her own film. Shame this is probably her only appearance, unless Gunn grandfathers her in. I think she's earned it.
I also enjoyed the 'spaghetti' analogy for their time travel shenanigans. That interpretation of things can be directly applied to Star Trek (2009) and it's own forward and backward timeline changes.
Zaslav canceled projects that were _completed_, in their entirety, including all post production. Such cancellations has nothing to do with "tax write-offs" and everything to do with "showing who's in charge," and "pissing on the work of others."
I completely agree with you. The personal issues with Miller aside ( made it hard for me to decide weather to watch), it could have been, should have been a Flash movie. It WAS a confusing movie. Instead it was Superman/Girl, Batman guest starring Flash. 🤘😁🖖🇨🇦
Other then a few exceptions I can think of the only mainstream movie's to use the Multiverse for plot and character development reasons are the Spiderverse film's, Spider-Man no way home and The flash point comic and animated film at this point currently,Other then that it's bad pandering nostalgia
Looks awful, but that George Clooney gag is goddamn hilarious.
The only good thing I saw in the flash movie was Michael Keaton saying I'm Batman! And how ridiculous did the slow motion Speed look. they made Barry run like a speed skater, not a sprinter. and everyone knows to be fast you sprint. Does no one do research any longer on a role? Did Ezra Miller and the Director sit at a table and say Yeah that looks cool? If Husain Bolt ran like that he'd fall on his face.
To be fair, as a marvel comics fan and occasional DC reader - i think the DC IP has always been a bit screwed up.
DC definitely rushed, and there are things you just can't rush. if this were a poker game, DC would be going all in trying to steal blinds while Marvel builds carefully and when the pocket pair comes, it's over
Grant is my Flash and even he got run into the ground.
*Puts hands out, makes pew sounds*