Recapping and testing a Mac SE/30 motherboard
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- čas přidán 18. 08. 2020
- #4bitvideo #SE30 #twistmethod
Trying out a new 4-bit video series -- shorter little individual videos. In this video, I work on a SE/30 motherboard donated to the channel by a viewer. It needs the usual recap so I do that and then test to see if the board is even working.
Also in this video: Can you use a Mac Classic power supply to run a Mac SE/30?
--- Video Information
I use the twist method in this video to get these caps off:
• Electrolytic Capacitor...
--- Tools
Deoxit D5:
amzn.to/2VvOKy1
store.caig.com/s.nl/it.A/id.16...
Jonard Tools EX-2 Chip Extractor:
amzn.to/2VazxDS
www.jonard.com/Products/EX-2-...
Wiha Chip Lifter:
amzn.to/3a9ftWw
www.wihatools.com/precision-c...
O-Ring Pick Set: (I use these to lift chips off boards)
amzn.to/3a9x54J
Elenco Electronics LP-560 Logic Probe:
amzn.to/2VrT5lW
Hakko FR301 Desoldering Iron:
amzn.to/2ye6xC0
Rigol DS1054Z Four Channel Oscilloscope:
www.rigolna.com/products/digi...
Head Worn Magnifying Goggles / Dual Lens Flip-In Head Magnifier:
amzn.to/3adRbuy
TL866II Plus Chip Tester and EPROM programmer: (The MiniPro)
amzn.to/2wG4tlP
www.aliexpress.com/item/33000...
TS100 Soldering Iron:
amzn.to/2K36dJ5
www.ebay.com/itm/TS100-65W-MI...
EEVBlog 121GW Multimeter:
www.eevblog.com/product/121gw/
DSLogic Basic Logic Analyzer:
amzn.to/2RDSDQw
www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Logic-DS...
Magnetic Screw Holder:
amzn.to/3b8LOhG
www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-...
Universal ZIP sockets: (clones, used on my ZIF-64 test machine)
www.ebay.com/itm/14-16-18-20-...
RetroTink 2X Upconverter: (to hook up something like a C64 to HDMI)
www.retrotink.com/
Plato (Clone) Side Cutters: (order five)
www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-5-10PCS-...
Heat Sinks:
www.aliexpress.com/item/32537...
Little squeezy bottles: (available elsewhere too)
amzn.to/3b8LOOI
--- Links
My GitHub repository:
github.com/misterblack1?tab=r...
Commodore Computer Club / Vancouver, WA - Portland, OR - PDX Commodore Users Group
www.commodorecomputerclub.com/
--- C64 Stuff
JaffyDOS:
blog.worldofjani.com/?p=3544
C64 Test Harness I use:
• Building a Commodore 6...
C64 Homebrew cartridge PCB: (used for the DeadTest / Diag Cart I use)
www.ebay.com/itm/Commodore-64...
EasyFlash 3 Multi-Cart:
store.go4retro.com/easyflash-3/
--- Instructional videos
My video on damage-free chip removal:
• How to remove chips wi...
--- Music
Intro music and other tracks by:
Nathan Divino
@itsnathandivino
Outro Music:
Abyss by | e s c p | escp-music.bandcamp.com
Music promoted by www.free-stock-music.com
Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)
creativecommons.org/licenses/... - Věda a technologie
Honestly Adrian, I'd watch your channel no matter the format. Your good content always shines through, so keep on doing whatever works best for you and your schedule!
Same...
I love the way you do mail unboxings. Other channels give me geek blue balls when they open something rare and toss it to the side. I want to know what it is and does and why/if it was important.
THIS!
Unlike certain Texans who sometimes play the keyboard :P
Came here to say this
Nukleon HA! YES! LOLOL
@@Nukle0n Yep; I stopped watching the unboxing videos by that certain individual because they did little more than unbox donations (and in particular because they didn't read letters from donors)
4 bits is called a "Nibble", as opposed to the 8 bits of a Byte
I was going to say that. LOL.
Adrian's Digital Nibbles! 😝
or as I prefer a nybble
1 = bit
2 = crumb
4 = nibble
8 = byte
Adorable.
I still have a few issues of nibble magazine, somewhere.
Dear Adrian. Some day you'll have to make a video about your t-shirt collection!! They are amazing!!
While I am quite partial to your longer-form videos, this was still a very satisfying video as well.
3:18 - yes, 128MB was the maximum supported size, ran it as a web server back in the day. There needs to be some context around 128MB RAM, you have to remember most machines of that era came with 1MB and supported a maximum of 4MB! Even the most expensive PCs topped out @ 32MB and you would struggle to find an OS that supported more than 32MB! We are talking a 25Mhz 486 DX CPU era here!
This computer back in the day was simply a dream machine running at 16mhz on a 32 bit bus. I did own a Mac Se HD back in the day, but gave it up due to the high cost for simply upgrades. My high density floppy drive failed and would cost over $300 Canadian to replace with a trade in of the dead floppy drive while a PC drive was only $30. I still loved that machine.
keep em long :) i really like the in-depth details you get into when producing your videos; one of the reasons i watch.
Glad you liked the goodies and hopefully will find a home for the system board.
Adrian your videos helped inspire me after years and years of watching, learning, but not acting to actually try my hand at some of this stuff. I built a mqtt controlled blinds automation system and I've now designed my first board in kicad for a bias lighting setup. Cheers and keep up the good work.
Hi Adrian, Either format is fine with me. If I can't finish watching one of your videos in one sitting, I just finish it the next day. No big deal. I don't want to put any pressure on you to do more projects in a shorter amount of time. I find your videos entertaining and informative. I learn a lot from you. I usually watch your videos at night before I go to bed. I find them very relaxing. Nice job all around.
The new format works well, still keeps the vital information that you always provide really good!
I'm honestly happy with your videos, in any format you decide to use. I'm just happy to have found your channel. I enjoy your videos regardless!
Hi Adrian, I love the videos and you have been making awesome progress in content, quality and have an amazing ability to explain things very well. Thank you for making these videos!
Interesting to see this motherboard. Hybrid of surface mount and through hole. Piece of electronic history.
I hope you are going to do the analog board - I have an SE/30 with a wonky screen and I’m pretty sure it’s the analog board. This was still interesting - after watching I may need to recap the logic board too.
Great content - please keep it up!
Stay the way you’re now. It’s honest & worth watching. 👍🏻
I enjoy the classic midweek mail calls. I also like the longer format.
Thats the first time I've heard you say "kickass"! It was wonderful!
your video are always so enjoyable, relaxing to watch and interesting technically and histrionically.
Really enjoy all your videos so any format is good for me.
I enjoy a 'regular' video on Sat and mini mail call on Weds, its a good balance!!!
I need your magic hand that I can wave over a motherboard to recap it.
It’s a great technique but be careful not to wave your hand a second time or all the old caps jump right back onto the board.
@@P5ychoFox hahaha that'd be horrible!
Also, don't make the same mistake as me. I waved with my left hand and reversed every polarity. Blew out all the electrolytics!
Finger contacts on those RAM SIMMs were notorious for oxidation (not gold-plated). Clean them up with an eraser. Alcohol-based cleaners don't seem to do anything. I can't count how many machines I saved just by this simple trick. I've had the same eraser in my toolbox for over 35 years. Some cheap erasers just don't work at all, but the classic pink ones work very well.
You can also place a graphics adapter in that SE/30 slot. 8-bit grayscale on those 9' monitors is stunning!
Great video!! Thank you very much, I will follow your proceedings!
I'm in Alameda! Nice, Alameda is a great place to live or visit btw. It's an island off the coast of Oakland.
The mid week mail call episodes are great, keep making them! Don’t feel pressured to keep making them overly long if it is too hard to edit film ect.
I love your videos and contrary to other retrotech channels I find them super interesting regarding of the duration; I envy your "problem" of parts oversupply, here in south America they are kind of luxury items!
We love your videos, whatever the length! Personally, I enjoy the long ones. I don't want you to burn out though, so do whatever keeps your enthusiasm going.
Probably not a useful comment, but I basically like everything you do and however you choose to pipe it out to the masses is cool with me. Do whatever makes your life easier.
Hmmmm, Adrian talks about doing a new shorter format the same day that LGR shouts out to him on his Blerbs channel. I like the coincidence.
YOutube ask people to make shorter movies.
IMHO CZcams can pound sand.....content has to meet the preferences of the audience and that varies.....the stuff I subscribe to benefits from half hour to an hour episodes.
@@jonnycando YT does research and movies longer than 10 minutes are less watched.
IMHO I’m sure of people with no attention span, but heck if I can’t watch a whole production at once, it gets bookmarked...so I come back to it. Don’t badger producers that make epic shows, that’s all I’m saying.
Much better this format!
Fun to watch! Thanks!
Short or Long Videos whatever you want. Great information always. Thx
I always enjoy more content. Just don't over work yourself! People get burnt out really easy doing that.
LGR gave you a nice shout out in his video today. Great video as always.
It's all about the content, the format doesn't matter as much to me. Do as you please! I really do like how the mail call videos are put together though, with the unboxing and also exploring the items.
Good to see some working vintage mac hardware
Love the music in this one!
I realize the legs will probably pull out of the caps or pull off the solder before the pads come off, especially with the leaking caps, but it doesn't stop me from holding my breath every time you twist away at those caps! Always look forward to your videos and learn a lot from watching them, especially about C64s. Got me started trying to get mine working again.
Honestly, I enjoy the longer format fine. This was great too. Do what makes sense for you financially tough. It's all really entertaining.
I love the content, long format, short format, whatever. Though, it is nice to have more frequent videos, and if the short format helps give it to us in smaller, more frequent chunks, I'm in. Just do whatever works for you and I'll be here watching!
Dear Adrian, I really like this 4-bits video format. There’s just enough information in there and it was quite entertaining. So, keep them coming if this workflow suits you better!
I like all your videos, 4-bit, 8-bit, as well as 16-bit or 32-bit.
8 bit guy has had the same problem with too much post. I dont mind what format you put out, just keep it coming. All the best from the UK .
Make the mail calls two parts. First part just unbox and show, no going to the bench. The unboxing and the appreciation is enough for one video. Part 2 can be you "benching" what you got on the previous video.
i prefer how the 8 bit guy and lgr do mail videos personally. just going all through the mail, and then setting the in depth stuff for other videos. it can be kinda like a preview of what other videos might be coming up next c:
and also, i have adhd, and shorter videos that stay on topic rather than changing to indepth multiple times throughout help me pay attention, even when i use it as something to listen to during tasks (which is a gr8 adhd trick to getting stuff done! unless the task includes reading/writing ofc)
Great video Adrian.
Great videos Adrian! Keep it up!
I can't tell the difference between this and any of your other videos, other than you letting me know there was some kind of change to your workflow at the top of the video. Whatever works for you, Adrian, we're just here to watch!
Also on the RAM, don’t forget the pictures you took at the beginning - if you put them in the way they came out it might just work. Some of those old RAM modules would refuse to work in some slots, but if you shuffled stuff up they would work fine. Always pay attention to what is where if it is working :)
Or maybe it works until the OS tries to store data in the faulty stick ;)
BTW Classic II is also 16 mhz.. The biggest difference is the 16 bit vs 32 bit bus.
My SE/30 has a Daystar Turbo 040/33 128K on it. (128k L2 at processor clock) which its adaptor slot also gave provision for me to install a Radius Pivot procolor display adapter to hook up its matching 17" monitor. The accelerator sits parallel with the main board while the video card ascends vertically up the side of the case. And yes it was a real pain to install it all. After it all sitting in storage for many years I broke it out a few years ago, replaced the internal drive I had in it with a SD2SCSI card and recapped the whole thing. And it still works as good as the day I got it in 1991. The Daystar and Pivot were installed in late 1993 and really did turn this into a great machine. Before 1993 I still used the orignal 85mb drive with external 105mb drive, external scsi ethernet adaptor and 1x cdrom. And a used HP IICX Scanner for photo restoration work. Such good times. It was all put to bed about 1995 after I got some good upgrades for a power PC I was working with beside it and didn't really get used again until about 3 years ago. The thing I couldn't believe was how much stuff I had crammed on those 2 old drives... Totally crazy. And even crazier was I never had more than 8mb ram in it.
VIDEO!!! Great thanks Adrian.
Great video! The SE/30 has a 16MHz 68030 and a 68882 FPU. The paths are 32 bit. The Classic II has the same 16Mhz 68030, and lacks the 68882 FPU (although you can upgrade it to have one). I have a Classic II and an SE/30, and I recently ran Norton System Info 2.0 with its benchmarking program. The Classic II, with its 16 bit data path, scored significantly lower than the SE/30. I don't have the results handy, but I'm building a database of 68k Mac benchmarks.
Like always, great video, Thank you.
I like this format 4 bit video series... one of the reasons why people send you stuff... they like to see what you can do with the hardware they send you......the faster you get the videos up the better that's my opinion.....plus the longer videos require I have Popcorn available which I don't always have 😂!!!
I enjoy all your videos. I worked in electronics for 20 or so years and miss doing it since I retired in 2012. Although towards the end of my career most of it was pluck and chuck circuit cards. I loved doing component level repairs.
I picked up a Vic 20 in box (missing the PSU) two weekends ago. It is the two prong square power connection , which I found a seller with one but it looks rough. I wish they made a new one.
Videos are never too long for me.
Thank you for the awesome video. I have a Mac SE/30 that booted a few years ago but now is giving me the "Simasimac" screen on boot. Any advice on where to start? I've removed all RAM and chips, they looked ok but I didn't use a deoxidizer, haven't washed the board with soapy water yet. I haven't recapped anything yet either or changed the battery. Do I change to a CR3032 like you did, or try to find another like original battery? Where do you buy those caps because my local supplier does not have the same format. Do they have to be tantalum or can I keep with polarized electrolytic? Someone suggested switch to tantalum.
NOTE: My original caps are silver cylinders with a gold/yellow band around the base, and a black stripe on the side of the yellow band indicating polarity. Your caps have a black mark on top. I also have a "bodge" wire on the back of the board running from the chip near R29 to the chip near R17. Not sure why, your motherboard didn't seem to have a wire.
Any advice would be appreciated. I feel like I'll have to buy some assorted caps from eBay, could I get all 50V rated, and use them even where they ask for 16V caps? There is only one 50V SMD cap needed, the rest are all 16V.
Interesting info 📼
I like the shorter format!
I'm pretty happy with longer videos, but dude, whatever works best for you!
Adrian you now know how 8 bit guy feels cause he use to get tons and tongs of donations and he has ran out of room XD
hau Adrian, i like the long videos. And you work on de Mac’s remind me of being a AASE back in the day’s.
My dream Mac!!
A few hours before I watched this video i tried putting an SE motherboard in a Classic II and got the same chirping sound. Good to know I didnt break it.
SE/30 came with System 6.0.7 or 6.0.8 originally if I remember correctly. I had one in 1990
System 6.0.3 is the supported minimum OS for the SE/30. I just verified it on mine with its original set of floppies.
@@minty_Joe Correct!
Awesome video, would you consider doing a Nibble video as a lab tour? I really like your benches but I can't see the whole thing usually
20 to 30 minutes is about the same as a TV show (depending on whether it's ad-interrupted one or a BBC show), so perfectly fine length to me... :)
Fun fact: I had a SE I added a 40mb drive to that was so slow to spin up the bios would give the no os frowny face so I had to turn it on and then when i heard the drive spin up quickly turn it off then on to restart the boot process while the drive was up to speed. :)
I bought the system to literally play one game and never used for anything else. :)
Another fun fact - I could get a Mac Classic ][ to print a page before the screen warmed up! I do miss CRTs, they seemed a lot more forgiving!
@@Fifury161 shorter vids = more viewer visits = more advertising revenue for the greedy tube. Heck I stopped watching tv due to number of adverts.
The tube wants content makers to do 8 minute vids. E.g. Advert, 4 minutes content, advert 4minutes content, advert.
If the tube gets its way I'm off to a different platform.
Bye bye tube.
Hi Adrian, thanks for your video, just speed up the recapping or taking in and out, failure is something we can learn, just keep it.
When you replace the old SMD electrolytic with tantalums do you derate the tantalums (up the voltage for protection against shorts-fire)
Curiously Adrian, why don't you use vertical mount cr2032 holders on those boards that don't have the space?
I liked the longer videos. But still liked this too.
Make videos however long you want, I'll watch.
Love your Videos, Long or Short.
Please stop worrying about long videos! We love long videos!
Im all for this ”shorter” format. Makes it easier to squeeze a view in.
Yeah, some people prefer the long form "mini" mail call. :)
Great video as always Adrian. I have a question, could you do performance/useability mods to some C64s? I know you have done some repairs and did some sid chip mods, but I was hoping for more. I love those old machines.
I've got two SE/30s, neither of which I've tried to use for years. One was working with very faint sound, the other booted up to a vertical stripey pattern. That one originally had a motherboard destroyed by a leaking battery, I imported a replacement from the US and it didn't work! I really should take a look at them sometime.
The video length was great :) Still really interesting
Hi, regrading leaking capacitors, would it be better to store aging hardware upside down when in longterm storage to prevent board corrosion?
You did hear about that back in 1996 - 97 MicroSoft was working on a 4 bit OS and they were going to call it Half-ASCII?
God I love Ubuntu!
The SE/30 logic board was designed so that it fit into the SE case, and Apple did offer a service to upgrade your SE, but I believe it wasn't a huge discount. I don't even know if you'd get to keep your old SE logic board, or if the Apple service centre just kept it for spares or something.
I also hate those memory slots in the SE/30. Very annoying to remove SIMMs, I think I ended up using a small screwdriver to carefully lever the clips. It's especially annoying because my SE/30 and Classic II are the only working machines I've got that take 30 pin SIMMs, so they're currently my only way of testing my prototype SIMM modules. But not for long! I've ordered an Innoventions Inc. SIMMCHECK PLUS, so I'll be able to test 30 and 72 pin SIMMs!
I believe these classic Macs don't use the parity bit at all, so you can use either parity or non-parity memory. I didn't bother with the parity chips on my SIMM prototypes and they worked just fine. Obviously if you have dodgy memory, the machine has no way of knowing and will just crash or fail to boot or whatever. Not sure if the system does much of a memory test at startup, other than checking how much memory is available.
Lastly, I believe those video memory chips are dual port chips which are pretty uncommon. The dual port allows the video chip to read the memory independently of the CPU. I've got MT branded Micron chips in my SE/30, and I believe Fairchild also made a compatible model, but I couldn't find any NOS or dodgy Chinese sources for either parts on eBay. I've heard these chips were much more reliable than Micron's old memory, so hopefully we don't see them starting to fail like the Micron memory in C64s.
Anyway, another great video as usual. I also like the longer mini mail call videos, but this shorter format is great if it means more videos! Definitely do what works for you though.
I too learned the hard way about being careful around the CRT board on Classic Macs. Very recently in fact. Which means I cannot blame this on being young.
That said, it turns out that the air escaping from the CRT is what disappointment sounds like.
ROTFL! Yes it sure does ... the hissing sound brings an immediate sad look to your face. Back in the day, at least it was possible to buy new CRTs for these machine at least. Just not very cheap either.
Love this, but please tell me where I can get the tools to open the case, and replace the caps. I haven't opened mine in years..
Dang that cleaned mobo looks stylish af
They used those slots because they were never intended to be used a lot - if at all. Most computers for end-users were modular purely for manufacturing optimization and some marketing (buy a weak one now, power it up later!). In reality they knew it was just a matter of selling a few configuration options and maybe expect one upgrade down the line. Us hackers of course changed parts much more frequently but we're a niche in that respect ;-)
Sweet! I have a Classic II, a regular SE (with 800k drives), and a couple of Pluses. I'm still wanting an SE/30 one of these days... but after I get the Portable up and running... should hopefully know something on that one by next weekend. Maybe I can come across some of those PhoneNet adapters for easy networking as well haha.
I owned a Mac Classic II. It was not a 25mhz machine. It had the same 68030 at 16 mhz as the SE/30. However it had the annoying Apple "feature" of running on a 16 bit bus which made the same speed chip about 80% as fast due to that limitation. I also believe it topped out at 10 megs of RAM compared to the 128 meg fully 32 bit SE/30.
I personally prefer a long in depth video rather than a smaller 'series" version. But I suppose it's what you find easier to publish! Great video! Shame I dont live in is near you. I want to give you an amiga 500 motherboard and keyboard. No case or psu so I have no idea if it still works nor able to test it myself.
When I was in high school, we had a room full of Mac SE machines for a writing class. One day we found a cabinet full of those phone net adapters and we networked them with AppleTalk. Memories.
Shorter videos are good. Longer videos are good. All videos are good.
Any video is a good video.
4:15 - worth noting that SCSI to Ethernet adaptors also exist(ed) - although they would probably be harder to find than a PDS slot card...
An SE/30, now you're speaking my language. This was always an interesting machine to me, a black and white all in one with an 030 in it and much better upgrade potential. Always felt like it was the perfect candidate for some hard modding to turn it into a color Macintosh.
Rumor is they wanted it to call it the SEx but they couldn't get the patent. 😂
I seem to remember there being some sort of upgrade to get 256-gray graphics on the machine.
22:02 - The Mac Classic II and SE/30 are both 16mhz. So I guess the Classic II isn't quite as crippled as we thought. I just lament its lack of PDS slot.
Thumbs up for that Marantz solid state portable recorder.
Good eye! I never mentioned it on the channel but I found that in the trash several months ago!! Works perfectly too. NO idea why someone threw it out.
Adrian's Digital Basement I can not believe that such a device which collected many design awards at its’ time could end up in the trash! Weird times we are living in. It supports the PCM format, there are no parts inside which can wear out over time, runs for months on a set of batteries, their media is dirty cheap and they have a broadcast quality sound. They can be underrated in general but it does much better job than an average Zoom does today. This should have saved it from trash.
Awesome video as always, love the way you pronounce "anyhow", sounds like hello in Chinese
👋😄
"Tech nibbles"