Is Tech Rushing WORTH IT?
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#hoi4 #heartsofiron4 #hoi4guide - Hry
The big thing Is that it Speeds up research time for every slot you have, the more slots the more of a bonus it is
yeah, his testing was suboptimal to say the least. He should research as much as possible until 1941 twice, once with additionally researching the bonus-speed-techs. Then he can see if he managed to research more or less in those 5 years with the bonuses. I personally doubt it'll add up enough. Yes, you'll probably have researched more by 1942+, but you had the earlier research later, which might impact things down the line. For naval factions like Japan it's probably more useful to spend the slot early on better ships, which results in better big ships which will probably pay off more than having a bit more research later in the game, but not being able to build the expensive big ships as early.
Seems like it'd be just as important to get those bonuses if you have fewer slots, because you want to make the most of what little you've got.
agreed, this is a bad test. Especially because he divided attention and tainted the test by adding extra factors (pp decisions) rather than answering the question... also focused too much on "ahead of time"
You don’t research electronics so that you can research 1944 techs in 1937. You do it so you shave a few days off of every single tech you’re researching after that.
It doesn’t seem like much, but it adds up the longer you have it. You can basically take your research order and compress it. Of course, nations with more research slots will benefit more from research bonuses than smaller ones, since they’ll be getting those bonuses applied to more techs at once.
Yeah it's value is in it compounding affect in the long run.
like the silent workhorse(or whatever it's called) for political power gain. the sooner you add him, the sooner he pays himself off and then it's bonus PP.
These techs are most worthwhile for majors that start with 4 slots and get to 5 quickly. less slots=less benefit
Is it really? I mean I get the idea but how many techs would you need to speed up to save the time for the electronics research? If it is just a 4% bonus how many techs would you need to have researched before you to make an actual impact on the early to mid game (which we have to admit is the actual playtime of the game, late game is usually about finishing the job and quite a lot of time you don't actually play it). I think it may be quite a lot more effective if you know you are going to have 4 research slots at minimum after you have the tech. Also, tech rushing in the example of the video shows how yo can get techs for the beggining of Barbarossa and Pearl Harbor if you play historical, which to me is enough to make that a worth while option
@@lautaromoyano5692 If you have five slots running research that each take 100 days to complete, with the 4% you save 20 days overall. Thus, in this simplified scenario, you break even after 500 days. That is to say, after 500 days you've earned back the investment into electronics. Naturally it's a little bit more complex than that. I always do electronic research right away, but I don't go ahead of time unless I have a big bonus for it.
This is a very goal oriented exercise.
An example: playing USA you can rush sub tech level 3 and crank out long range subs to raid and choke Japans convoys depriving them of oil.
Or, can rush mechanized infantry tech so that by 1940-1941 you are fielding a large number of mechanized divisions. Can do this with tanks also to field ahead of time tanks to have a much stronger army (similar to your artillery strat).
I think it's both goal oriented and country specific as if you stack the research bonuses that the US/UK get with their focus tree bonuses then you can have an army with an Uber powerful specialty while sacrificing other areas.
The USA focus tree giving you two more research slots does mitigate the "lost other research" component a bit.
As the u.s you can also rush the Naval tech tree using naval experience
3:20 "you want to research things early to have things ahead of other countries". That's true, but stacking research bonusses is also useful if you simply want to research more techs (ahead of time or not). I rarely research ahead of time unless a focus gives me a bonus. There are lots of lower priority techs that can give you an edge (radar, some naval techs for example). Staying on time with computer techs allows you to grab a few of these while also getting the essentials.
i calculated it, and the first 2 electronics researches are early enough to be a net positive, unless you want a big naval power, at that point invest instead in ships to build better ships earlier (= more production-to-stats-efficiency).
Everything after the second electronics tech is too late, by the time the bonus pays off for itself you have lost more production-to-stats-efficiency than the effectively-increased research speed down the line (roughly 2 years after you've finished said electronics research).
Only USA (didn't calculate it) with its 6 slots and late war-entry might profit enough for the 3rd and 4th electronics.
If you can get a research bonus to electronics (like +100%) they're definitely worth it if you research them as soon as they don't have a research-ahead-of-time penalty.
(FOCUS) Colonial elite: 7% research speed, you get it quite early too.
UK is ridiculous with that plus the German and Italian scientist decisions, plus free trade.
He mentions it around 8 mins in. But Yeah I always rush this if I'm going for a U.K. research build.
In my mind the research bonus techs are always better the more research slots you have, so a nation like China that starts with 2 slots it’s basically worthless, but nations like USA or Germany where you get to 5 or 6 research slot very quickly, the bonuses add up very quickly
it takes ~2 years for the first electronics research to pay for itself if you immediately research it. After 2 years you start to actually get ahead in research from it. But the next electronic research throws you back 2 years again until it also pays for itself again. This happens over and over for electronics.
Only the first 2 are worth it, or if you can get a +100% bonus on the later ones, and only if you research them as soon as possible, but without time-penalty.
The later ones don't pay for themselves enough to be worth it, except for the USA probably.
I always felt like research bonuses helped catch you up to major powers more than helped you get something faster.
Edit: Daniel Gloyd has the reasoning behind why it's a bad idea. Read his comment.
They absolutely will put you further behind if you research them as a minor nation. Each time you devote a research slot to an engineering tech is 1 more combat tech you are behind. As a minor nation, you may only have 2 or, in some cases, 3 research slots at the start of the game. You are giving up 1 of those slots to research the first electronic mechanical engineering tech. Only to gain a 3% bonus afterward. This one is fine as it will be needed to unlock RADAR techs anyway. But for maths sake, it takes 100 days at base 0% research. So you are losing 100 days that could be spent on the research of something else. When it's finished, you gain 3% bonus. So, each day of research is now worth 1.03 instead of 1. Let's say you started with 3 research slots, and you will be gaining 0.09 extra research per day now. It will take 1111 days for that 3% bonus across 3 slots to equal 100 days' worth of research.
Now, let's take the 2nd tech into consideration. It has a base of 250 days to research for a 4% bonus. You already have 3% from before, so without any other bonuses like free trade, it will take 242 days to research. Let's say you unlocked a 4th research slot by the time this tech finishes just as a best case scenario. That extra 4% research speed across 4 slots will take 1512 days to net you 242 days' worth of research.
These techs are never worth it unless you have nothing better to research or want to unlock what's behind them. Or like in this video where you are meme'ing and trying to unlock some super advanced tech at the expense of everything else.
@@danielgloyd4529 thanks for the heads up. I never bothered to do the math since I usually wanted the fire control systems or stabilizers.
@@danielgloyd4529 It sounds like the more research slots you have, the more worth it is. So useful for large majors, kinda?
@roguejoe I don't think you will really get a big advantage from rushing them. But yes, with a major like the USA or UK that can eventually get 6 slots and have decisions to boost research speed. They will break even and start to pay off much faster. The UK even has a 7% research speed bonus from a focus, which also helps.
As a little side note, adding an additional research slot is the fastest way to increase your total research output. So if your goal is to get as much of a tech advantage as possible, rushing for the focuses is going to be more effective. Going from 4 to 5 slots is the equivalent of increasing your total output by 25%. You would need free trade, both scientist decisions, and the first 3 engineering techs to have the same effect on research speed.
@@danielgloyd4529 What if you have 5 research slots are they worth it then.
I think he did not consider the PP needed in order to stack the research bonus for example the desingers and co. If you think about it, in a normal game you would need atleast a year worth of PP thus evening out the 18-19 month differnece. May be wrong though
Depends on the nation. Germany gets more pp, so they have enough in a few months.
Personally, I don't rush Electronics, but instead research them once every two years so that everything after comes out quicker. Though, if I am a nation with only 2 slots, I tend to put it on the backburner to instead focus on industry. But it is one of those things where you will always be using it, because you are always researching, and they don't take crazy long to complete either, so they don't hold up a slot for too long
the later you research it the worse it gets.
Any nation that can't get up to 4+ slots only hurts its research instead of gaining something in the long run.
With 2 slots it takes 4 years until you actually start to have more research done than if you had skipped it and instead researched something with actual impact. 4 years is far too much to be useful compared to getting other tech earlier to produce better stuff.
Reminds me of the old USA strat I saw a couple years ago. The plan was to focus entirely on navy and research tech and you could have the max electronics tech+battleship/carrier 4s in fucking 1940 lmao
Considering that if you do decryption or invest a lot in to navy those tech are needed, the research bonus seems like a obvious chose.
7:31 I once did that as Germany and also invaded Norway near the start of the game for the Heavy Water decision and rushed Nuclear Tech (including doing the Wunderwaffe Focus and hiring Werner Heisenberg) and got Nukes in like late 1943. I'll have to retry that or you can give it a go in a future video
I always felt like research bonuses were about getting a wider breadth of research, not getting ahead in a single category.
Having big research bonuses leads to being able to research things in every category faster meaning you can push advantages everywhere.
While that's true, it's actually the opposite for the research TECHS. You're sacrificing one research slot for X days in order to gain a small percent increase to your research speed, you would gain a wider breadth of techs by never researching the research speed techs. Obviously there are some techs you might need locked behind those research speed techs such as Radar, but it doesn't give you a wider pool of techs than someone who didn't research them, it can potentially get you a specific tech faster than anyone else though, as seen in the video.
three things to note; If you have more than 3 research slots, and just research all techs straight-- nothing with an ahead of time penalty-- baring the naval branch, you will end up running out of un penalized techs to research around '38. Second, the research bonus and AoT penalty stack additively-- if you have a 50% research bonus, and a 50% AoTP, you get net 0%. Third, all research bonuses are added in real time-- if you add a Design Co in, get a national spirit that adds a long term bonus, or get a computer tech, or lose any of the above, anything it might apply to will be adjusted accordingly. Conversely, One-time bonuses, like from Focuses and Spies, and AoTPs are locked in or out once you begin research.
Most techs have the same research time, and a 15% increase in research speed translates to about 22 days.
So, to test the more broad research approach, I would set up a queue of research, based on the priority, and either insert the research bonuses in said queue or rush them all from the beginning, and as a baseline, no research bonuses.
New Zealand with 5(or was it 6) research slots rushing all the techs in attempt to provide other MP players on allied side with broken licenses and in return finally get some factories: seems like people forgot about me?
5:28 that was so loud I thought I left my game running and alt tabbed faster then any other human has in their life
Thankya sir. Ive wondered about that for a while
Going ahead of time really comes down to how many research slots you have and how quickly you can get more.
I tend to go research heavy when playing as Canada, acting essentially as commonwealth R&D helped out by all the bonuses and focus research bonuses. Industry is less harmed because I can give production licenses to juicy industry to my allies.
I'm not researching electronic researches ahead of time on any nation except the ones that are navy centered. Fire Control III is very OP and I like to play have fun with navy once in a while. But for other I would use research slot for them only if the ahead of time penalty less than half of a year.
While I usually agree with your perspective on HoI4 I would have to disagree with this one. You should try another scenario, doing only researches that are not ahead of time. For example you start as the UK with 4 research slots and you set a fixed path of researches to do i.e. 1st. industrial tier 1 researches, 2nd. Infantry tier 1 researches, 3rd support companies tier 1 researches etc. etc. You play the same scenario twice until 01 Jan 1941. On one of the two simulations you also implement the rule on your research path that whenever a research tech is less than 0.5 years ahead of time you pick this instead of what you would normally pick next. At the end you compare the overall tech tree progression on both instances.
Such a comparison combined with the one described on the video would give the full picture on the usefulness of the research tech.
agreed
It would be even worse for research techs in that case, the nature of percent increases/decreases means that the smaller the total number is, the smaller the percent will be. If it takes 1000 days to research something and you have a 10% speed increase you shave off 100 days, if you're researching something that takes only 100 days you only shave off 10. While equal percentages, the effective changes are quite different. The largest disparity in date will come from rushing ahead of time, if he didn't it would likely only be ~8 months difference instead of a year and a half like this video.
The real question about the research speed tech is how long does it take to pay itself back?
So I made a spreadsheet and had to make some rules. Export focus (default for most) is used, which gives 5% research speed. No other research bonuses are used except for the research techs needed for the following tech (need 1938 tech to be able to do 1940). The research bonus you get are in order 3%, 4%, 5%, 8% and 8%. However there are diminishing returns so the real % you research faster is lower.
The days needed for payback are in order: 3325, 6237, 4995, 3115, 3125. The amount of days still have to be divided by research slots. So even with 4 slots it will always take more than 2 years. If you have more research bonuses the payback time will only increase. The worst is the 1936 tech that give 4%. Even with 5 slots it will take 3.4 years. The nuclear tech is even worse, because it's double the research cost, gives the same tech boost and it comes 2 years later.
If you are going to research wide, then you'll be better of not getting these techs unless you really want those modules you unlock with these. If you have a small industry that can't effectively produce many different things, but you have more than 2 slots to begin with (European minor nations) then you'll research less wide and will encounter the ahead of tech penalty. In these circumstances it becomes better to invest in reserch speed, because the opportunity cost will be lower.
Concluion:
Majors don't need except for modules locked behind that part of the tech tree, because they have much more to research.
Small minors (2 tech slots barely any industry) don't need it because the payback time is too long (over 5 years for the 4% 1936 tech)
Bigger minors can use it if they want to neclect parts of the military.
Research bonuses are vital if you want to research a lot techs , like minor catching up with techs , or having a lot support companies 33% research bonus is almost equivalent of having extra research slot (that Italy advisor) or every 3rd tech is free
if you specialise really a lot you still get bonuses but its not as vital i think as you will be doing ahead of time anyway (as you specialise in key techs and ignore rest)
nerf mostly impacted people who tech rushes certain techs to make op tanks or have advanced artillery early , i think nerf to ahead of time was one of best updates
you can still get ahead of time stuff but you need a focus/bonus , so you have to do tradeoff:)
I am a big fan of stacking research speed, but for getting techs now to save time later. if you have 4 slots available, and you spend 230 days increasing research speed by 4% that pays off surprisingly fast.
BUT the best part about this is you are spending that 200 days in 1936, when you cant yet get all the great ahead of time techs, but as soon as you can start them you are getting that extra 4, 6, or 10+% bonus and it applies to everything.
I would like to see a video where you just pick real world techs, you would actually want before the war, and then do the test a 2nd time but include the electronics techs, and see if its quicker. rather than rushing ahead of time.
Tech rush works better on certain countries due to focuses that reduce ahead of time penalties by a lot while also giving research speed bonuses.
U should try to do one where u try to do both research methods with full industry and see which one puts out the most advanced planes quicker
I never rush electronics except maybe 4 months or so before their research year (if i haven't anything on high priority by that point).
The more research slots you have, the better research spead becomes. You are losing a slot to research faster research speed. With a minor nation that starts with 2 slots, it is absolutely not worth it. That extra 5%, along with the loss of days spent researching the tech, will never be made up during the course of a normal game. To simplify, think of it as a tech that requires 300 days with no bonus as gaining 1 point per day until you reach 300 points and the tech finishes. If you have 5% bonus, you will now gain 1.05 points per day. Every 20 days is the equivalent of 21 points. This means you only gain 1 research point every 20 days. If you are only on 3 slots of research, you will need 2000 days of research to get the equivalent of 300 points of research. If you are on a major nation with 5 or 6 research slots, it's not as horrible, but it's still not worth it unless you don't have anything valuable to research or are going to unlock the fire control systems.
Basically, the conclusion is to get your research buffs from decisions and focuses. If you are a minor nation, don't even bother with engineering research. The only instance that they are worth the research time is if you have an open research slot, you want to unlock a tech behind them (fire control or nukes), or if you are doing it for the memes (rushing the fastest possible modern tanks for example.).
I think that one slot will be taken by the electricians it could be 1/3 to 1/5 of your reacher when doing it so maybe try reaching four things to 1944 tech with also reaching the reach boosting and once with out
well i think its worth a test, make a list of researches that you want to do in a specific order and one that includes electronics research and see what list you get further in by a specific date or what tree you finish first. maybe the extra few hundret days of research spend on electronics pay themself back sooner than we think.
Been trying to figure out is there a sweet spot of researching ahead of time, so you can research something else until that time.
I feel like this would be fun to do as like Canada where you just have the most killer air force in the world
One thing about ahead of time is that there is an opportunity cost. It's more "beakers" going into something, beakers that can be more efficiently distributed.
The mechanical machines tech is worth going for at the beginning since it allows for a quicker cypher, because of the level 2 cypher decoding tech in the spies tab requiring mechanical machines researched and 8 Civ factories and having a 9% bonus to research in 1936 is super useful 5% + 4% from the 2 research bonus techs you need for my example here
This could be helpfull in multiplayer to get modern Tanks or Jets early and then spread the license to your teammates
You can have additional research speed bonus by one of the national focuses - colonial elite
i mean infantry bonuses like having late weapons earlier would help
in most of my games i tend to focus my mils towards inf. weapons, arty, sup. equip, and AA so that i can have a huge well equiped army until 39 and basically only have my initial air force and tanks. in the meantime I use my research bonuses available for tanks/armor or planes. then from beginning of 39 i start putting any newly build mils into the tech i have rushed. as germany i basically steam roll poland, benelux and france by late october 39. great britain usually falls december 39 depending on how strong their air force is and where they put their navy. Only in rare cases sea lion will not start before feb/mar 40. I know thats nothing outstanding and its not about bragging.
I just want to say imho research rushing is only viable if you have the mils/resources to actually produce it in meaningful numbers
Its good to research electronics cause in early game there is not that much you need to research so you use it to reasearch faster later on
I feel like countries like the US would benefit from pushing research faster and getting ahead of time tech like Rubber, therefore letting you use less civilian factories in trading to Indonesia, which by the time the war starts, would be under threat from Japan. It allows you to get more factories before joining the war, and thus you can more rapidly produce equipment that you they’d give to other countries.
4:30 that research juggling max is 30 days
This test is so flawed and I hate it. It isn't a realistic scenario and researches something that alone is useless.
Id say it's more useful to get more current day techs done overall. Meaning you can go down more trees and have overall stronger troops/economy earlier.
In this case, I find it worthwhile to rush an extra research slot as soon as possible (maybe even 2 if you can).
even going from 5 to 6 is basically +20% research speed, which is a lot, so i think it's indeed a good play
What is this research speed/ Ahead of Time nerf you're talking about? Are you talking about when they reworked research speed years ago?
can you do a similar test with just numbers of techs researched if not doing any ahead of time
This is a great experiment that is destined to be skewed. Because the idea is you research the bonuses on time or when you have a free research slot. Then everything you research after that Is faster, giving you more free research slots (I.e. when it is the least ahead thing)
using spies to get research speed and ahead of time bonuses from trolling ireland where it at
Tech juggling would actually allow you to unlock it faster. its very micro intensive, but allow 1 line to stack up the 30days put it on the advanced tech, then when the next line is stacked to 30, swap your advanced tech to that stacked one and make the previous line into w.e. you would want/need at that point. Once its finished let that line stack up to 30 and repeat the process. It should help you save like 4-6m if you do this method from the start. And as you illustrated without the method you are already 1.5yrs ahead, so with proper tech juggling you can get advanced planes 2yr ahead.
for me, it depends. if im playing a minor nation i simply don't have time to "rush" things unless i get a bonus. the majority of the time you're gonna be behind on your research. but if I'm playing a major nation with 4 slots or the USSR with lots of starting tech already researched(specifically air and tanks) i can be more lenient with my research.
Problem with research speed tech is the nerede version made them unworthy to ruah, but still essential for minors to reach majors in terms of tech. These bonuses helps you to reach tech where you're behind on time. Which is only useful when either you're tech rushing for certain tech like here, or you're a minor and need to get like 36 guns researched or something
6:29 this... makes me sad,i could not get that speed even in my dreams
Maybe I missed it, but did he use the 50 air exp air spirit that gives +15% air research? I want to know how good that is.
I've got to say I've always "rushed" infantry equipment more of only putting 1 slot towards it but always picking out of date. My reasoning is if I'm always 1 year ahead in the largest part of my army I'll always have the base advantage as long as my division template is is a good design.
With electronics the sooner you get it and the more research slots you have the more worth doing it is. As America I always go for electronics first. But as the smaller nations it may actually not be worth it unless you are going for a really late game. Also I don't use it to ahead of time on techs. I do it on nations where I am likely to go for Naval techs and therefore want to research all things not focus ahead of time on one thing which I might do for someone like Germany.
I never ahead of time by more than a year and usually only do it for the main infantry equipment just to get that slight edge. sometimes when playing as a naval power I might ahead of time for the last base battleship ship tech just to get the capitol ships out slightly early to maximize that advantage.
america has like what, 5 research slots? electronics pay themselves off in like 5000 days on 1 research slot, so in like 3 years with 5 research slots? I think it's a fine deal especially since u dont have much to research without ahead of time penalty with that many research slots
You spend the fighter bonus on light airframe 2. and the cas/nav bonus on light airframe 3. Or you just have australia do it because their fighters are better. In MP this is what you do. You have to get the fighter 3 by late 39 as allies to win the air war because axis always have more on planes early on then you.
Only things I would recommend rushing/prioritizing is medium/modern tanks, modern light/medium aircraft, and nuclear technologies (after 1940). Then again, I usually just research what is best at the time and don’t stick to a single technology. Before, I only took the ahead of time penalties, if I absolutely did not care for anything else. I typically just prioritize the industry and electronics.
The question is how many days does it cost you to reach the bonus compared to how many days are left till you trigger "the" battle.
More accuratly is "time cost for one slot" vs "time spared on the number of research slots you have until you significantly go to war". And even then it would be overevaluating the research bonus because having the stuff reasearched earlier means you can produce it quicker, with a lot of scaling on production chains. Most of the time, very early research bonuses are worth reaching for, but most EU4 solo games are "over" by 1942 if not earlier.
My Stellaris Mind immediately laughed off such a question.
Then I realised it's not Stellaris.
I’m prolly doing it wrong but my take is it’s absolutely worth it in single player. Granted I play R56 so it’s very different I assume, but I always rush electronics and industry when I play Siam, and stay out of conflicts until I’ve accumulated a strong industry as well as well equipped armies.
This allows me to level the playing field a bit, I think. If I decide in going to war with Japan, I find my troops are well equipped, and especially with mechanized units & air support, I’m able to achieve rapid breakthroughs.
I find this also works very well if you’re playing a multiplayer game with a friend. If they’re playing a more aggressive play through, you can arm them with better equipment that they may not have been able to research yet. The reason I find this works is, if you’re researching, let’s say, advanced medium tanks, ahead of time, you can get it earlier than some people, and that allows you more time to swap factories over to tank production and recover their efficiency in producing them.
Actually I feel like minor nations should be specializing more. Play Hungary and only build an airforce to accommodate your smaller economy and manpower for example
Mechanical computing gives a 4% research speed buff and baseline costs 245 days to complete. Once you have it every day of research = 1.04 days, so .04 extra days per day. In order to recoup your 245 day investment if you only have 1 research slot you would need 6125 days. With 5 slots it takes 1225 days or 3.4 years, meaning it pays for itself around April 1941. With 6 slots it takes 1020 days or 2.8 years meaning it pays for itself around January 1940.
Level 2 gives a 5% boost and pays for itself in 980 days (March 1941) or 815 days (September 1940) with 5 or 6 slots respectively.
Levels 3 and 4 both give 8% boosts and pay for themselves in 612 or 510 days for 5 or 6 slots respectively.
So are they worth getting? Probably only if you want fire control system, bomb sight, and/or stabilizer modules, if you have research bonuses for electronics, or if you are the US and won't be getting involved until late 1941 anyway.
In theory if you only produce fighters and cas as Hungary. This could be worth it.
return of investment. calculations for the win
I like playing as France, who are very constrained on research slots, political power and well everything. Instinctively I want to stack research bonuses for longer term benefit, but I don't think you have enough time before the war to really do that.
France is my favorite nation to play because it’s a challenge where you have to make sacrifices, play the long game but risk being overrun during the blitz or build up early but stunt your long term growth potential. France always has the potential to be a global super power with tons of flavor etc
he does a lot of stuff to figure out very easy math.
Its a 5% buff, there for if future tec>20 then it pays for its self. In a game you use plenty more then 20 tecs soy yeah its value.
Also when research early, how long would it have taken to resaerch the 1940 in 1937? would that have been about the same time so would have been finished about same. Now that fighters also have engines and all, without the 1940 or 1944 engines, will be missing a lot.
my personally feelings are that the electronics techs are worth getting up to the 1939 ones, but after that its late enough that you will spend more time researching the advanced electronics techs than you will gain in reduced research times
I usually end up neglecting computing techs in favour of radar. The best thing computing gives you is the stabiliser for tanks. Other than that the time you sink into researching those techs just wastes time you could be spending on something else, defeating the purpose in 90% of cases.
Just keep up with the engineering techs at least. The saved days can be put towards many techs to get a larger advantage.
I feel like when I have four research slots I don't have anything to research that is not too ahead of time, so I feel like I would be wasting a research slot if I didn't research research buffs
It depends which country you're playing. UK should research computer techs because they get 5 slots early on and have a lot of stuff to research. Also, they can survive for a long time without army techs being totally up-to-date. Basically, they can afford to focus on industry and research techs for the first couple of years.
My experience with my techrushing friends:
They have one hyperadvanced tank or plane but lack in multiple other compartments.
I know someone did the math on the ahead of time penalty on when the penalty is so great that your not really saving time.
Tech rushing is country specific. Some examples are:
Australia/Romania can rush Light airframe
USA can get a 400% bonus for medium airframe
Germany/Soviet get tank research bonuses
SAF/Hungary usually stack bonuses for tanks
It depends on the country, if you only have 2-3 research slots it’s not worth it, but if you have 4-5 it is.
If you dedicate a slot for 90 days, that gives 4% increase speed, then, every tech that’s 100 days long gives you 4 days back, that means it will take 2250 hours of research to make back the time you invested in learning increased research speed.
With 4 slots that means about 1.5 years, with 3 slots that’s 2 years.
So always push getting extra slots as a priority, and only research it if you are planing to end things 4-5 years ahead.
Ideally you should do it instead of a research that would be ahead of time
I bee line medium tanks some games, even in multiplayer. Though not the electronic engineering. I don't think the ahead of time penalties on it make it worth pursuing them more than a couple months before their year comes up.
Industry boosters on the other hand... I am researching both the 36 and 37 stuff in 1936 and sometimes even go for the 39 stuff immediately following them so my industry just shits out material and builds new factories lightning fast compared to my opposition. There is a draw back to that, meaning you can get less varied gear, but if you aren't going to war until 39-41 then you can catch up on the middling stuff later and research the criticaly important things you want to be stockpiling alongside the industrial stuff as most majors have at least 4 research slots open start of the game.
The last few videos are CZcams - fire like no other.
It’s so funny seeing Dankus doing a 1200 day research in 1936.
Soviet Union can stack to 50% plus research bonus, also 137% production efficiency, which means you can rush to advanced techs and mass produce them, it’s mad strong in the late game (say you want to take on allies after defeating Germany)
hoi4 science is cool, but i think to really test it you need to play the game too. saying you get advanced airframe in Jan 1941 is fine but if you show us how the air battle goes after we could see if thats something we wanna go for better
Try with soviet union they have a focus is give you 1% research speed for all your pupet and nation
ok some very back of the envelope calculations but; the first computing tech takes 250 days to give 4%, this shakes out as about 4.2 years to pay for itself if you have 4 slots. so around 41. the second will pay off in about 3.4 and starts in 38, so ~42. the third brakes even about 43, and fourth in 44. this would suggest that computing tech only really helps if you get to late game. however taking up early research could also put you behind in production and growth midgame. however they would be better for factions with more tech slots, and ones that aren't involved in the early war. trdl maybe on the usa, with there max 6 slots and there late start anyway, otherwise don't bother.
ty mr feedback
A more interesting video though I find it funny coming on the heels of one where you advocated tech rushing regarding plane equipment.
1. Tech rushing without a focus tree bonus (i.e. 100% ahead of time) isn't worth it. I can't think of a single tech that will turn the tide in such a way that requires keeping a slot for years on end. The AI doesn't know how to build aircraft in this current patch so rushing better airframes isn't needed, a well designed fighter will do the job. Arguably ships are the only vehicle that become far better with each iteration but shipbuilding is so expensive that it might be difficult to get that working in a normal game.
2. Tech rushing with a bonus, however, is worth it. The most common one is the Germany focus tree industry bonus, garnering 1939 industry tech far earlier than that and using it to further increase the industrial behemoth that Germany can become before the war. It's one of the few tech rushes that I do automatically, without thinking about.
3. For the Engineering techs in particular, I think it's wise to grab them as they come up. Access to better fire control techs for ships is a massive boost to nations like Italy, that start with almost a navy and can build one to challenge GB with some clever industry. The decryption and encryption improvements may also save players from dealing with so many AI decryption reveals too. That might be a fun test to run, see how often the AI decrypts the player with and without the agency upgrades maxed out!
Electronic researches give baseintel bonuses in combat
Personally, I prefer to get the research bonuses as they become cheaper in days than the base cost
After them I prioritise the construction and factory tech using the same method
Only after that do I bother with military tech usually
Does mean my game is almost always slower but, by the time 1940 comes around, I've got an economy to rival late game America so pumping out armies and focussing on military tech becomes so fast that as long as I can hold the lines adequately, none of the ai stand a chance
Isn't there a uk focus that gives research speed?
You could also try to steal aviation blueprints...
As someone without dlcs 🤷♂️ wouldn't it be pretty good? The number of things to get is shorten isnt it?
So basically research bonuses and going for ahead of time tech only really works if you're operating with 5 slots and a massive industry (USA! USA! USA!) lol
feedback from my side - you are looking just for 1 Tech - multiply the saving on 3 different techs ! :-)
I had a couple games in MP where I played as fascist Italy, and by leaving sea (yes, sea) and army mostly to Germany and focusing on air, I had a massive airfleet of 1944 planes in early 1940 and I absolutely mangled Russia, France and the UK - it was pre latest dlc, admittedly, but it happened a couple times
I disagree the point has anything to do with ahead-of-time techs, but instead for broader techs that many players ignore. Players like you ignore things like the entire naval game and end up dodging entire sections of the tech tree. Most of the time with narrow research focus you aren't getting as much value but if you care about more things then you get a massive time savings on those secondary options.
It's actually the exact opposite, if you spend time researching the research speed techs, you will have a smaller pool of techs than if you ignored them, but will have a faster research speed for the line of techs you're going down. You have to factor in the opportunity cost of using a research slot for X days to just gain single digit percent research speed bonuses, it's only worth it for tech rushing, it's literally the exact opposite of what you want to do if you want a broader pool of techs.
Constructive feedback - Maybe you could lower your ingame sounds? I have your smooth voice at a comfortable level interrupted by deafening factory sounds and electrical beeping.
Havin 4 slots, each tech 100 days means 4 tech in 100 days.
Using 1 slot to get 3 slots faster means you need atleast 33% boost to get equalily.
If you have 5 slots 25% is enough with 3 slots 50%.
So if you have more slots the trick works out better.
Head of time is only priority if you are done with any other tech.
Tech rushing is a really good approach for the Allies dominions, minor axis nations and few non aligned nations, as while most can't field a lot of equipment or troops being able to make half a dozen well trained, well equipped and a head of time divisions can turn them in very good spearhead troops. This same mind set can be applied to an air force and somewhat to a navy as well.
Since I did some math before, at 32% , 4 tech slots and let's call it 6 months on average per tech.
We'd get (1.32)*4*2 - 8= 3.56 extra tech a year
The trick is it'll take you multiple years to get there and multiple research techs to do it. So payback is dubious.
I would argue that it's as a minor nation that you'd benefit the most from the bonuses, allowing you to keep up with the tech without falling as much behind...