🔴 END of Film Photography? Leica M11M Monochrom
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- čas přidán 22. 06. 2024
- Leica M11M Monochrom camera (Italy) + Biggest oversight of Monochrome users
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Very good review of this camera, but to be honest, it is very difficult for the average Joe to justify £8000+ asking price for this camera. On the other hand my little calculation shows that presently each roll of quality B&W film cost the photographer in the region of £17.00 depending on the film and the type of processing, if scanned at home. This means that if you shoot 300 rolls of film each year, within two years you will break even. The time required for processing, scanning etc not withstanding. Is shooting digital monochrome the same experience as shooting film? No it is not and it will never be. People will have to judge for themselves.
Buying 100ft bulk film, and literally rolling your own brings that cost per roll down to around 5 gbp ?
5 years of shooting a roll a day ? That’s a lot of film.
And that’s just the BW film
Thanks and I'm with you 100%. First I don't have 8K to blow on cameras, Second, I MUCH prefer the look of proper film for interesting B&W images. (Some videos coming soon with film samples included). (I make these videos as I try to provide a service for people looking to buy Leica and give my opinion on what I enjoy of those I get to play with.
Yep bulk roll helps drop the price. I do that too.
I don’t think you’re doing the Monochrom cameras justice. Some of my favorite features are the fact that you can crop enormously without loosing resolution and shooting indoors without a flash still give you massive depth of intensity.
Sorry, it’s great but the M11 lets you crop too. I try to crop in camera so M10 is enough for me
Enjoyed your video! I added the MM 246 last year since I wanted to avoid film for traveling but not compromising in B&W shooting. I never looked back - it is actually a nice addition to my M-E 240 camera, uses the same battery and VF-2. I love that the monochrome files come as DNG Raw files - easier to post process! Big benefit less often talked about: with a R72 filter the monochrome camera is actually taking great infrared photos - no need to carry an additional IR-converted camera! Personally not a big fan of the M11 series - it’s a gamble to get a good copy.
Thanks! One of my Patreon buddies loves that camera too (and does IR)
I have an orange filter for my Q2 Monochrom and find it really useful.
Great video! Thank you.
Me too! On all the time!👍
Great! So many I’ve spoken too never use filters
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I don’t need to tell you!
Significantly improves skin tone,textures on buildings, and punches up clouds but not as much as my Red filter which on a monochrome is the Oysters Ice-skates! (censored but the 🐶s)!🤣🤣
great vid, I always wanted to try to get a strictly monochrome cam! love the specs btw mate! cheers!
Thanks!
Hope to add a monochrome sometime. The tonality and transitions from light to dark in the m11m made it easy to distinguish which image was which. But at the end of the day, the regular m is more useful in more situations and can make award winning black and white photos.
Thanks and great your trained eye could spot the difference!
I was really hoping I would pick the M10, but i prefered the mid tone range in the M11. It surprised me. Thanks a million for the vid!
It's even more surprising that this subtle distinction survived the conversion to a highly-compressed CZcams RGB video!
M11 has Sony sensor so more dynamic range 👍🏻 thanks
Informative video Matt ! I grew up shooting BW film and process/printed many-many of all sizes. I’m more on the side of RGB sensor and convert in post. Presently shooting with M10R and SL2. I would upgrade my M10R to M11P for several reasons you mentioned and also for the internal memory (you probably mentioned that and I probably missed it). I love the USB-C charging on my SL2. Cheers from Canada.
Thanks, I still love film the most! I forgot the memory so thanks for reminder!
I have both the M10M and the M11M and love them both. I bought a shedload of filters in Paris (39, 43, 46, 55, 60mm). Fun.
Great! Yes filters make it much more fun!
Thank you for this interesting, thoughtful video. I love the flexibility of an rgb camera and am more than happy with converting to bw in post, but must confess, I'm a big fan of color photos.
Thanks! No problem
Well reasoned on the RGB camera vs the mono camera. And some RGB's will shoot mono by menu selection and my Pixii will shoot native RAW mono, too. The M240 shoots mono and offers built-in color filters, red, orange, yellow, blue and green. Neat trick. Have you ever used built-in filters for mono? I am using the M240 more and like it more. More muted color than the M9, less Kodak, more Agfa and I prefer Agfa. Anyway, back to your vid, another great one. All your opinions were spot on. Cheers.
Thanks Sandy! Built in filters are only for JPEG so I don’t use them but great to mention it.
I like your pre-set for the M10. For me, I am holding onto my M10-M Wetzlar edition and I have no plans to upgrade to the M11-M anytime soon.
Thanks! Nice, I would quite like the M10-P :)
You're very welcome Matt! Great comparison, you are right, the advantages the M11-M offers are incremental, not revolutionary.Great video, see you soon!
Thanks Jon!!
Great video and examples. I think the most noticeable difference with the M11 monochrome will be when, or if, you decide to enlarge and print the image. For online use, the difference is negligible…
I suspect it will be hard to notice a difference even then, given that inkjet printers print via overlapping patterns of colored dots. I've read about specialist grayscale printers in which some enthusiast has pulled out the color inks and replaced them with a set of calibrated gray inks, and it would be interesting to see results from one, but the overlapping-dot problem still wouldn't go away. I can't help thinking that other than eliminating the light loss caused by RGB filtration, most of the benefits of these cameras exist solely in the minds of the affluent chaps who enjoy them…
Thanks for the information. Being a (less than) affluent chap myself, I’ll continue shooting with my M3 for the near future, but I still like the idea of a single purpose sensor. So far, the results I’ve seen have been stunning.
Perhaps a good deal on an M11 monochrome body will turn up on the used market.
I’m intrigued by the idea of those calibrated grayscale inks and modern printers. Though I probably won’t spring for the costly museum quality prints very often, the prospect of achieving a higher level of digital print quality with b/w is exciting.
Thanks, I do print now but only darkroom / film so digital is more to test and for models
I generally like the yellow filter the most. The flat files are perfect to work with, since they are like a negative. Gives you all the tones and lets the artist make the print by extracting the information. The raw file is just that the information for the artist to create the final image from. You are basically capturing all the zones and then decide which way you see the image as the artist. Not for people who just want to post directly from camera and had hoped the camera did all the work.
Thanks, yes agree to flat files giving more to work with in post (or the darkroom)
hello Matt,
Would you consider making a video to discuss repair and reliability of digital Leica cameras? For those of us too poor to afford the newer ones (M10+) but also don’t want expensive repair bills. Is there any kind of data out there about out-of-warranty failure rates?
Hi, hmm M11 have had a lot of issues being the latest model but others seem pretty good, except the M9 with sensor issues. Try to buy used from a store so get 6mth warranty for peace of mind.
That looks like a Light Lens Lab 35mm f2 (8-element remade) right there!
It sure is! Well spotted and stellar lens, I’ll do another video on it when I get time
Soervus Matt👌👌
Thank you for your presentation✌✌Video as always brilliant, what would interest me or can you make a video about what settings you use when you are not doing a model shoot, also for Patreon, would be very cool. Nice video you have produced again. Sorry if I ask but last time your skin was quite red as if you had a rash, which is absolutely not meant badly, I just noticed.
Lg Anderl
Hi thanks! Settings are basic on M cameras. Set ISO as needed for the light, shutter speed 1/60 or more, lens wide open if testing or f5.6-f8 if want more depth. Yes I have Rosacea (rash). I just got cream so let's see if it gets better. I hope!
Seems like I am early to this party 🎉
I am all in for using a color sensor Camera for Black & White Photography ! You can do the "filter" work in post and you can even combine "filters". With a black & white sensor camera you always need filters on you camera, did you remember to bring filters !? Did you by accident use the wrong filter !? ... !!! If black & white sensor cameras were fx half the price of color sensor Cameras, then it could make some kind of sense. For me film Photography ended many years ago, I am happy that I do not need to use polluting chemicals and digital photography is much more fun !
Thanks! Chemicals are more eco these days but it’s great you enjoy digital
I simply could not afford your Leica. I'm a keen collector having ten vintage ones ranging from 1930 to 1957 and I've been using my IIIa today. I've never totally bought into digital but I quite like the mono settings on my Lumix GX7. Added to that my Fuji X Pro 1,has a number of interesting Fuji simulations which include filters. What I have found is just scanning film negs can bring the clouds out anyway. I've never used filters when using hand held meters hiw does one compensate when taking meter readings Matt?
You don't need digital. Stick with your proper film cameras! As you know I love mine (see tonight's video). For filter use yes you need to compensate. Yellow might be -1 stop, red -2 etc.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom, Thanks Matt for the info, take care👍
Hi thank you, but I don't the fund$ for a M10 or M11 but if did I would go with M11 DMG any day of the week, I am happy for you.
I was lucky to find my marked M10 at near M240 prices otherwise I wouldn’t have it either. I’m happy with my old SL!
i traveled to Philippines last April with my Nikon F2 and used red filter.
Great! Film is king 100% I bet the red gave nice dark green leaf tones
Totally agree with your conclusion. I've lusted after a monochrome but in a way only to force me to see in tones, but in reality having a normal M10/M11 is better I think.
Having the colour data for black and white conversions means you can get away for the most part with just using a red/orange etc filter in post, it's good enough for me anyway.
On top of this, a lot of people overlook using a Circ polariser which is a game changer, not sure if people stack them on colour filters for monochrome cameras but I can see that you might start losing a bunch of light to work with; I find it a bit fiddly/annoying having a circ polariser on but love the results so put up with it on a nice day. :)
Yes, great point! I’ve just on film cameras so makes sense for digi too.
My Wide Rollei , I use color filters for B_W photos , and after I pay off the SL - 3 , then I might go for a M11 monochrome , however I do love the methodology of shooting film as I concentrate , and fall into a " ZEN " that shooting digital just misses.
Film is king no question, this is just a what if backup option!
Love my WotanCraft straps on my M cameras.
Me too! And their bags
You overwrite the M11 cameraprofile with your MrLeica LR Present?
I don’t use lens profiles. I shoot DNG and add my presets in LR
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom why not?
I often much preferred glass filter over plastic filter, but since I keep a set of Tiffen square ND in my LF bag, I went ahead and order a yellow and red Cokin P series filter two weeks ago. I haven't used those thing since the 90's, while I am sure they are not as good as optical glass, I do hope that they are better than those cheap chinese plastic filter.
Thanks Rex, that brand should be fine I think!
Matt love your video i agree with you for 15% better black and white photos the m11 mono is not needed yes you do get all shades of gray buy i dont think you have a big difference, if you do decide to get a M11 p why not just get a sl3 less $ and better color Science, plus you have stabilization.
Thanks Sam, I don't have 8K floating around to buy any of these cameras I just try to provide a service for people looking. I love my SL for portraits but Ms are nice for a small travel setup.
If you watching this and don't have the money for Leica just get a mirrorless like the Lumix S5II with maybe a 35mm 1.8 S lens for example and get the DXO FilmPack that has many film looks from color films like Velvia,Portra etc to b&w films like Kodak Tri-X 400 or T-max etc and all filters from yellow to red to green orange blue etc and you are set!
Thanks Marcus! Even better just shoot proper film and enjoy the real thing!
Warning ! Leica don't sell a Red filter, because a lens with a Red filter won't focus correctly when using the rangefinder. My first decent day out with a new (to me) 28 'Cron in good light produced really pourly focused images. Went back to Leica Mayfair, who checked the lens (which was said to be ok), and the end result was a slapped wrist for using a red filter. Now using the Leica Orange filter, which seems much better.
Thanks, that sounds very strange and makes no sense but I don’t doubt your experience. A filter doesn’t impact calibration and I’ve used red filters either no issues on film Leica and the M11M.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Surely this is like Chromatic Aberration. Lenses inherently struggle with the range of colour frequencies because these are diffused differently in the glass. If you slap a red filter onto the lens, you shift everything to red end, and this shifts the focus point, which is not detectable when using a rangefinder. Ben at Leica also suggested that this effect is worse with wider lenses.
Just add a fly swat Matt.
Ha thanks!
The only big advantage of the monochrom cameras are their high ISO performance. If you were a photographer like Brassaï who recorded the night life in Paris, you would find it highly convenient.
And yet Brassaï managed it, and with films having modern ISO equivalent speeds of probably about 80 at most…
@@jlwilliams Yes, quite surprisingly!
Thanks yes if shoot at night I’m sure it helps a lot
Need the M11M in order to feel that pain
It’s nice but I don’t need it. M10 did just fine
Going to a place like Cinque Terre and shooting in B&W is kinda dull. And stick to M10. All the shots done with that looked way better. Spending 8K on a monochrome camera seems a bit silly. M10 more versatile.
Thanks Pete, yes M10 files seemed to have slightly more pop
Orange not red ?
You can use orange too for a less drastic effect
I prefer film for monochrome photos even with all the limitations of film.
Me too, 100%! This was a what if video but I shot 5 rolls today so I’m all in on film!
I shoot monochrome, Tri-X and HP5
That’s proper b&w! I’m. With you all the way, film til the end for me! (This was just a what if option) More film videos / samples soon
Methinks Matty should try the Pentax K3 Mono as well, with some Pentax limited primes.
Give it a fair run to get accustomed to “the Pentax way” of shooting.. and see how it works out.
Thanks, if I ever get access to one I will make a video
They are so far from being “near identical” in my opinion. Yes, the M10 files look good in B&W, but if you compare to the photos of the M11M, the difference is very obvious, the M11M has so much more details in the shadows and overall the details in the photos are way more balanced, it looks more natural as well in my opinion. In my opinion, for B&W photos, a monochrome camera just doesn’t have match.
Thanks. Yes it was a limited test and didn't show the M11M to its strengths. When the M11M nails it the photos are lovely, no question. I'm not bashing the camera.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I know, I just made an observation.
If one can’t tell the difference between the two, then stick with RGB sensor. Anyone can sell themselves on anything, but you’ll never sell me on RGB and monochrome files being the same. I work with both, they are not the same and it’s not even close.
Thanks. If you guessed correctly then great but yes for me they looked near identical (actually with M10 looking slightly better, eek! Probably just less flat*) Both are great
Crazy you can buy a used Honda for a price of 1 Lecia. I can never justify the price of Leica even how bad I want one.
Prices vary loads, look at Leica iii like I use or if digital the SL..or R film bodies
I don't think a monochrome camera makes much sense anymore.
There is only one difference between a monochrome and a color camera: the absence of the color filter array. With the color array filter gone, the monochrome camera has a much higher resolution at the same megapixel count, at the cost of losing color channel information and only having the luminescence value per pixel. Given the M11 has 60MP, the color filter array on the M11 provides more value to the black and white photographer than drawbacks because with some much resolution on the sensor to begin with, the resolution penalty of the color filter array is not an issue anymore! From thereon, working with color M11 files in black and white, you can use the color channels to make these color filter changes in post. Didn't like the red filter you stuck on the lens on you M11 Monochrome? Tough luck. It's BACKED into the file. No going back. On the M11, you can make all the changes you want after the fact.
I liked the using filters but once I saw the final images the M10 is easier and I use film for proper b&w :)
M10 files have better snap and the M11M files are very muddy.
Yes to more snap, I thought so too! Thanks
M10
Yes it held its own!
Digital is a non starter for me. No film? No photography for me. "Photographers take photographs. Accountants make files."
Well okay, then!
Nice! I love film so I hope we have forever! I shot 5 rolls today so I’m all in on film, now with a goal to print in the darkroom
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom As another photographer recently said:"There have been special moments that I captured on digital where I wished I'd had a film camera for this!, But I've never felt it the other way."📷🌟🌟🌟🌟So true.
With a lot of Ketchup a 3 star Michelin plate taste the same as a McDonalds one
Rubbish test with your presets.
What is the click bait line of film photography doing in the title since you don't mention it .
Man man you are on a slope downwards. You don't need it
Holy shit dude. Having a bad day?
@@davidellinsworth3299 no just telling the truth. I understand you're a bit shocked cause that is rare among the fanboys
@@RS-Amsterdam I'm not against constructive criticism, but coming along just determined to be a dick?
At the start of the video he asked what he would use if he couldn’t use film, made complete sense.
@@leonarddavis8449 asking if film photography is coming to an end is luring viewers for the wrong reason