How many CPU cores do I need to run Virtual Instruments in a Digital Audio Workstation?
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 06. 2024
- Hey Folks! It's been a long time since I've uploaded a DAW benchmarking video but this is one I've wanted to do for the past several years. As I've gone through the last several cycles of CPU upgrades - from 4 to 6 to 10 to 14 cores - I really haven't noticed much difference in my workflow. So I wanted to do a video that measures whether and if such a difference exists. I hope you get some value out of what I've put together here.
Here are links to the tracks used in these tests:
Hybrid Orchestral: / dominus
Pop/EDM: open.spotify.com/track/0AEQNH...
Subscribe here: czcams.com/users/RichardA... - Hudba
This was amazingly informative, really interesting and will help with the pc build! Thank you so much!
Awesome video man, very informative and easy to follow. I just discovered your channel and I've been watching your work for a few hours now and I've learned a lot. Thank you 🤘
Perfect timing! I've been wondering about the benefits of all those extra cores for quite a while. (Very useful info-thanks for posting this.)
And don't fret about the haircut. You should see mine.
Very good video with lots of helpful information. No fluff: Just facts and straight to the point. I've watch it multiple times. This helped me in building my first Windows PC. Even your desk layout looks like mine. I subscribed!
Hey, you are making great things! Your tests and results is very heplfull. Keep going!
Really informative and solid.... Thank You...!
And as for me personally, being a 40+ years of Pro IT Supporter and recording engineer, it's good to be confirmed in what I have stated in so many techings and advices over the years... :-)
That was so so good literally
Cleared all of my doubts
Thanks for being here on earth sir 💞💞🎉 🔥
Very informative videos for DAW optimizations. Thanks!
Awesome video and tests. Thank you for all the effort put into this.
I've been looking for this information for some time. Thanks!
WOW, thxs so much for the test, this is a massive information.
This is EXTREMELY insightful. Thank you!
Totally awesome. Thanks for this. I know now exactly what I need for my next build.
Wow, thank you for this! I would love to see an objective test as to the effects of ASIO Guard on the 'single-machine' setup!
Great information in there! Thank you!
Your videos are very informative!
Very informative, thank you!
Keep up the great work sir!
Thanks for this! I've been thinking about upgrading my PC, but it seems like I may not need to go so crazy with the cores!
Thank you for explaining what I''ve been looking for
Thanks for the lovely RnD.....
It will be very useful to all Musicians who wants to upgrade their PC 🖥
Thank you for this contribution to this topic. I am in the planning stage of a new PC build with an emphasis on music production and you just helped me to nail my CPU choice. Thanks again and keep up the great work.
same here, which cpu have you decided for?
@@luca1emanuel I plan to build an AMD system, so I've decided on the Ryzen 7 3700X.
Very interesting video, I think this is the kind of practical information that helps the garden variety DAW user make some kind of assessment of just how much of a behemoth they need to make their music. I'm a hobbyist musician and my projects tend to lean towards a couple dozen tracks of mostly audio (typically a multitrack recording from a live band rehearsal). I've been noticing some limitations on my now seven year old Surface book laptop when I start to add some resource-intensive plugins like certain reverbs etc and that (and Gear Acquisition Syndrome) has me thinking about upgrading my machine. I would like, some day in the not too distant future, to try my hand at composing in a more traditional orchestral format with a view to maybe doing some television or film scoring and I have found myself wondering how much machine I'd realistically need to do that. Videos like this are a great help, I think. Thanks!
thank you for this ! Amazing infos!
Amazing video content! :)
Thanks for the video - really informative
tremendous information, thank you
Very helpful video, many thanks!
Subscribed! Very helpful! Thanks!
thanks so much for this video - and your other about DPC etc
Thank you so much this was exactly what I needed!
You are needed in the DAW sphère, you will be the only Channel doing such benchmarks
Amazing video quality! What camera did you use?
Thanks for making this. Very useful information.
👏👏👏 Great work! Ty
Thank you!! needed this info!
Best work of it's kind I've seen, as I'm looking at a new CPU or not. Thanks. (Windows Pro 10 is stable w/ Cubase Pro 11. Using Waves WSG Server One Ethernet) X299 ASUS-D i77800XCore, 32 GB ram, .
Would love to see your Ableton Live workflow!!! I am currently using Ableton only for writing and cubase to mix. I am unable to make the transition as I am so used to that way ableton does it as I've been using it for 4 years now. This would be great if you could do a video on that!
Very informative, thank you! Would you say that Clock Speed is more important than Core Number (knowing that 6-8 are enough)?
@Richard Ames Music This is solid stuff. Enjoying the content! Subscribed and notification on. I'm about to purchase a new machine and based on your video I don't need more than 10 cores. Now I have to decide how much RAM and if to exclusively use NVME drives only. I just want to get a machine from Dell that will just work. My last one has lasted 8 years without problems. I would also be curious about a graphics card. Any advice?
Amazing. I have been producing since the late 80s and rarely got below a 1024 buffer. Getting to a finished project at 512 was an absolute treat. But I never learned to 'lag play' either, so after each take a manual fix of those first (midi - soft synth) notes after the count off were required, an issue that irritates the hell out of me still to this day.
Incredible test! Thanks so much for this. I can imagine now, 3 years later, with a 14th gen i9, this test would be wildly different, allowing for insane low latency, despite modern sample libraries increasing in cpu usage.
DDR5 is massive for VIs, memory bandwidth has more than doubled between stock DDR4 kits and XMP/EXPO DDR5 kits and this helps a ton.
I think the correlation between sample size and dropouts is because of single thread performance. No matter how many cores it has if it is slow for example 10900 vs 12400. The IPC (instructions per cycle) get better with newer gens. So for example a i7 14900 can achieve much lower buffer samples than a 10900 that would be like being able to go from 256 samples to 64 samples. Also the audio card plays a role. RME I think has the best latency in the industry from what I read because of their drivers. I am no expert, just my 2 cents. Regards
@@segundacuenta726 Totally makes sense. And I can personally vouch for RME, I've been using their UFX+ since it was their new released flagship model. Besides the pristinely clean pres, it's stability is leaps beyond any other products on the market. I've been through all the name brands, and I'll never use anything other than RME in the future.
Nice test. Would be interesting to see what impact CPU speed has. At 4.39 Ghz, you are running 20% faster than most other machines out there running at 3.6 Ghz. That may make a difference where additional cores aren't needed as much. Plus, the big question is how much optimization will be done on higher core count machines in the future.
Very informative video. Thanks for the info. But just to clarify, if the person who cut your hair doesn’t do haircuts, how did they cut your hair?
Thank you so much for this video! What do you think about a gaming Notebook for music production? I have to decide: portability vs. power.
Hello fellow potential Ryzen 5000 shopper fancy meeting you here
greatings trying to figure out if I should go cheap on the Ryzen 5 or go 7 or 9 lol. One thing I would say is that I've found that many other people talking about audio builds mention single core and single thread performance is important. Particularly for all the simultaneous actions that we do under certian DAWs and Virtual instruments between effects and live editing. And ALL of the Ryzen 5000 surpass even the highest quality of Intel's i9 on cpubenchmark.net/singlethread.html. Even gaming people are saying that Ryzen surpassed Intel with the 4th gen, they do say Intel is talking about something that might catch up now that Ryzen is showing how behind they're getting but that could be until next holiday season. Not to mention likely more expensive for a very slight edge.
5900X 128GB FTW, building this asap. Still waiting, they are not available now in Germany.
My Old 1700X Ryzen will then be the Vepro Slave with 64GB.
u meet me at official Cubase Hangouts by Greg Ondo Tuesday and Fridays, 19:00-23:00 CET
I have a Discord for all Cubase Hangout Nerds, where we share this.
Why hi there! Yes, that Ryzen 5600X is looking mighty tempting after watching this video. I was a little afraid that "only" 6 cores would be just too few, but this video shows that core count really isn't going to be the make-or-break in your DAW productivity.
Is intel still the best solution for DAW like Cubase? Like i9 10850k? With z490?
@@Muuuzzzi Right now, the best CPU for DAW use would likely be a Ryzen 5000 series. Probably the 5800x is the best overall, but the 5600x is 1/3 cheaper and nearly as good. A B550-based motherboard is fine, no real need to get X570.
very useful video.
this is gold
Great video. please let us know your current pc setup... 10940x, which motherboard and ram part number etc... thanks Richard :)
amazing video!! learned a lot!...one question,,,,what is the table you are using on your desk? Thanks
That's a Samsung Galaxy View tablet running lemur. Both have been kind-of abandoned but it's the core of my DAW setup. So I'm going to be in a pinch when it dies!
Great video! I'm really happy with my 3700X and good to see that it's the sweet spot for audio production. Thanks!
what mobo are u using with 3700x?
@@animeshsrivastav660 @Animesh Srivastav MSI B450 Tomahawk Max
Genius info i appreciate that 👈🏼
Thank you for these videos, i just subscribed to your channel and browsed through your videos. I am currently working with a intel duo (yuck). But I'll be building a super powerful desktop next month for jazz composition and recording. Also will be using vienna symphonic software. (along with kontakt and keyscape). Do you think its necessary to get hyperthreading, specifically the i5-10600k? I've been deciding between that and the i7-9700k.
What did you get in the end?
Thanks for this information
Great and very informative video, I just bought a new Ryzen 4800HS laptop which has 8 cores and started wondering if that's going to be enough to run extensive projects. My track count rarely goes above 100 so it's nice to see you showing how does different core count perform with 400 tracks and beyond. There really isn't enough music production benchmarks in laptop reviews so thank you for making this video. It makes even more happy about my recent purchase :)
Sir which one i should buy?.amd ryzen 5 4600h or Intel i5 10 gen? Please reply
@@KhatiBass what did you buy ??
@@KhatiBass I hope you got the Ryzen... it's far superior
Great video! I remember how helpful your original videos covering this topic were, so I'm glad you updated it to include newer CPUs, Cubase 10, etc.
Question: do you think these results would've changed much if:
1) you increase the pre-load buffer size for both Kontakt and East West? (Maybe max them out)
2) you increase ram from 64gb to 128gb?
This is my current situation:
1) 2010 Mac Pro tower 2.4 ghz 8 core w/ 32gb ram, running Cubase 10 Pro
2) Visiondaw slave pc 4930k i7 6 core w/ 64gb ram. I believe hyperthreading is off(?) because there are only 6 cores showing in task manager
I'm thinking of getting another slave, but do you think it would be better to get a more powerful slave with more cores and 128gb ram so I can replace the other slave? Or is it better to get another machine similar to mine and have 2 slaves? I'm trying to simplify things, but if going to 1 more powerful slave would be worse than 2 medium power slaves that's where I'm confused.
Plus, I run a 512 buffer, I've always done this, I'm not hyper critical or sensitive about a tiny buffer and I can play just fine with that 512 setting. I'm on a Fireface 400 audio interface so would like to get your opinion please thanks
Increasing the preload buffer sizes might help a bit but I'm not sure. However, I'd be surprised if it made much difference. I don't think RAM will affect these results much other than limiting the number of samples you can load. In general more machines are still better as you can see from the results in this video - the same project runs at lower latency with multiple machines. I'd try running the slave with hyperthreading on. I've always found much better performance with it turned on.
@@RichardAmesMusic thank you so much for the reply! I will try the hyperthreading on and see what happens, and I'm leaning towards the 2nd slave, but I thought I might be able to run just 1 more powerful unit for less hassle, wiring, not needing a 3rd battery backup, etc. Keep up the great work!
Great video; could kindly show how us your BIOS settings and your Windows 10? For example; are you using power management settings at 100%...etc Thank you for this video, helped a bunch.
It's all about the RAM man.... :)
Great video.
@Apparently You’reTheAsshole Well when it comes down to sheer amount of virtual instruments you can run simultaneously and smoothly, yeah, it's always going to be a matter of how many you can load into memory. Most any modern processor will never be your bottleneck.
Richard,
Useful information. Thank you for putting the data together.
Is it fair to say the i9 core counts and performance profile would be essentially the same for Xeon processors as well?
I'm not sure that there would be much difference if the frequency were the same. Xeons have had issues in the past because they used to be clocked much lower. But I haven't kept up with them recently so I'm not sure.
Thanks Richard, much appreciated.
Hey Richard -
Any thoughts on the new Mac Studio for your needs?
Is it the dream machine or do you think to much for Audio Samples??
thank u very much for this test and for your time . it is the best tutorial about latency
Richard I notice you've got hyperthreading on.. has your opinion on this changed? I was sure that in your *excellent* video on real-time latency, you'd come to the conclusion that hyper-threading should pretty much always be off. Did I miss something?
Would this build work as well for video production? Or is there something missing to make the alterations or upgrade? Very helpful video btw thank you
Also how do you run one instance of the software say Kontakt. I know Kontakt you can create channels but just one instance beyond 16 I think is the limit. What about a full orchestra?
Keep in mind that you used the same CPU turning off cores; that is not exactly the same as running a CPU with just 4, 6 or 8 cores; because the core die are interconnected on the same bus and share lanes; so you end up getting differences between CPU due to different usage of the cores. Useful data but would be more useful to run those tests on computers with the same RAM and specs, but different CPU
Do you think AMD thread ripper 64core 128 thread is overkill?
@@Thediegmyster yes; you can get a ryzen 7 or 9 and that is more than enough to be honest.
@@fcf8269 More than enough for *what*? Film scores? Relatively light hip-hop?
@@HammyHavoc That is up to you; the whole idea of making music is to find which plugin work well together and use less resources as possible, giving you the best audio quality.
You can do orchestration composition or 4 on the floor pop or what else; you learn your tool, know its limits and work around it.
If buying a car was like some people that get the most powerful thing available just because, and do not check for their needs and master their hardware, it would end up with everyone driving a 600 HP Ferrari :)
Only you know what you need; because nobody else is there to check how do you set up your DAW and plugins
@@fcf8269 What do *you* use it for? The whole idea of making music is making music, not mucking around with the workflow.
"14 Cores" is the biggest flex of 2020 so far🤣🤣 Great video btw
Thank you!!
At least you still HAVE hair!!!
lol I'll revisit when I get closer to the new build. It's gonna be trying to fit "one size fits all" scenario, as I game... render... and create musically, and I was trying to amalgamate all the data (as i'm an "enthusiast" with regards to all) to see what's best for all in the prioritypyramid (TM pending... lol). I appreciate your insight.
Also... it's just me... i CAN render & bounce etc... and act accordingly for my limited vocal (and any IRL audio input thangythings) abilities. And I appreciate your viewpoint considering the "slave" aspects in regards to latency. (cuz we all have the ones that we didn't leave behind, but repurposed. But you WOULD think that multicore performance would be much better using vstis/etc i.e. separate... i.e. for every instance wouldn't you think they could take advantage of core use.
Have you looked into the Cubase core usage problems? They talk about it at length in the DAWbench Radio Show -podcast. It could be that the problem was related to Asio Guard but with some settings Cubase cant take full advantage of high core counts. I'm not a Cubase user, so I don't remember the details though. Interesting and informative video anyways, thanks!
I checked the Windows CPU usage meter at various points during the testing and it showed that the CPU usage was pretty evenly spread across all cores at all times. You can an example where I describe my setup. The one exception was with the orchestral track running from one machine - there was one core that was consistently higher but not by much.
@@RichardAmesMusic Nice, so they either fixed it or it only happens with Asio Guard.
In detail 👌
Thanks a lot for the information. How many gb ram would you recommend? 128 channel contact for orchestral project
I'm not sure this test means that the cores don't help. What we might be seeing in these results is the limitations of your other components. In other words, the limiting factor in speed is always your weakest link... your processor can't work faster than the RAM it has in it and vice versa. Adding more cores will help delegate tasks better if you have the RAM and storage capacity to match your higher core number, but it won't matter at a certain point if other components are maxed out. So if your RAM or SSD are slower, it won't matter how many cores you add, you'll hit a wall, and that might explain some of the limited results we're seeing in these tests.
Another factor that we might want to consider are the _threads,_ not just the cores. both cores and threads contribute to performance, albeit in different ways. If your CPU has a high number of cores but a low number of threads, that could also be limiting your performance increases.
I wouldn't ascribe too much meaning to this test without more information. It doesn't seem to account for the rest of the system.
Thank you for taking the time.
There are many parameters at play. I would have loved a test on Presonus Studio One, since it was recently optimized for multiinstruments.
The question with samples size is, how much is too much, eg hearable latency. I'll hazard 512 and even 1024 is fine for most tasks, and that it's generally posible to optimize the projet for phases such as recording voices to be worked at lower sample sizes. Would be interested in your perspective on this.
I used to Studio One for 7 years and recently changed to Cubase, primarily because I'm able to run twice as many plugins. I didn't do a super scientific test but I would say the performance is actually 2.5 times as good.
GOOD ONE
disadvantages of the larger buffers? other than latency (and realworld?) and again THANK YOU!!!
Great video!
MacBook Pro m1 pro (10 cores cpu 16 gpu) or Intel 12700k with a balanced configuration?
I produce, mix and master pop music.
Hope you can give me a suggestion.
Thnaks
uHe Repro works much better with "multi core" button pushed in, the real time VST CPU meter in cubase goes way down with that one. I am not sure how other plugins are assigned to CPU cores. But thanks for the nice video. I am chugging along with 4 old cores here.
I would be curious to see, if multithreading enable or disable makes a significant difference?
Depends on the synth, if its super hungry like Diva or Repro5, then yes multithreaded mode on makes a huge difference to the sheer number of simultaneous notes you can play in HQ mode.
thanks dear.
I have an important question about these tests: do you always use 44.1KHz sample rate for the playback? Because according to the sample rate variation, using the same buffer size, the overall latency is totally different, and maybe, using a higher sample rate, you could notice a difference in performance, depending on the number of cores.
Perhaps, does it make sense using more cores to increase the sample rate and decrease the latency?
Hi Claudio - yes, sample rate definitely has an effect but I haven't seen any difference between 44.1 and 48 kHz and I don't go any higher. If you go up to 96 kHz, though, I'm sure the results would change.
Thanks very nice.. I’d wonder how this would change with disabling SMT
Thanks a lot. Would that also translate into single core power being more relevant? So if you had 8 cores but reached 5.1 ghz instead of 4.8ghz with 14 cores?
Yes i that's key....single core perf is more important then the number of cores.
Awesome thanks a daw vs ram could be a cool vid idea
thank you
Thanks so much. I’m just about to get a new computer.
Hi, Im wondering if Cubase does good enough with hyper-threads, and if not, can the performance of Cubase be better when the hyper-threads is turned off🤔
I would love to learn how to turn my surplus machines into a slave server across ethernet, for vsti's... I've got some digging to do. Any advice on where to begin my search?
Awesome
Amazing video
I have a question. I work in Luna + apollo x4 on a late 2013 Imac 8G 256. Not ideal I know. I compose orchestral music using Spitfire discovery and Albion One and add vocals to the composition. I use some UAD plug ins Fab EQ and the Izotope. In Luna I have the NEVE console added and that uses a lot of power. Even so - With a 10 to 15 track my computer renders at 130 and already at 100 I hear a lot of drop outs when bounce the track. I need a new Imac. I've seen the new 2021 24 inch Imac that comes with 16G 8-8 and 1 terra. Would that computer which is an M1 do the job for me? I might be able to expand the amount of instruments for a fuller orchestra or movie trailer but I will I guess never go over 50. In the UAD group the pro's of course advice the fastest of the fastest you can get but with Apple"s prices on upgrades that is just a lot of money and maybe even overkill for me for that matter. What can you advice about the M1 Imac or should I wait till the new 2022 Imac is released? Thanks in advance
The RAM is going to bite you. 16GB is not enough for a massive orchestra template. 32GB is the miniumu for what you need. The CPU of the M1/M2 is just what you need though.
@@phoenixrising4995 Thanks so much for the reply. Last year I bought the Imac 16G M1 and it is true that I get into trouble with the 16G with only 45 tracks with almost no plug ins added beside the fabfilter EQ.
@@joshrainbow-IceTenor You could stretch a bit further in REAPER it runs on a patatoe thats why I love it, plus its customizable as hell. I mean they got a raspberry pi build.
It would be interesting to know what do Cubase developers say about number of cores? Is Cubase written in code that takes advantage of multiple cores? It would seem not much.
make more vids on this topic please
Does ryzen 9 59000h with 6core ,base clock speed 3.2 and max clock speed 4.6 good enogh for music production
Hi...i am from srilanka...i am goin to build budget PC..with i5 3470 & 16GB ddr3 1600Mhz ram kits...what do you think about my choice..is it good enough for music production?
Have you ever considered running you system on a macOS (Hackintosh)?
Hey, do you think an i5 9300H should be good? it's quadcore
You should you use multitap delay insert on your tracks, I wish to see how this plugin destroys your cpu power...
haircut still dope !
Thank you so much! I am running Studio One 5.1and I have to buy a new computer. The Ryzen 5000 series looks nice and shiny, but I don't want to have the experience you are talking about in terms of not really seeing any advantage. Do you think I should be good with a 3900 or 3950 chip considering the plugins that I use from acustica audio and other cpu hungry plugins. I've also been told that once I have 3600 optimized RAM that will help as well 32-64GB. What's your recommendation. I really don't want to purchase a machine and I really am not getting the most out of it. I currently own a Dell XPS 8500 which is 8-9 years old so I know I will see a massive increase. I just don't want to spend and get diminishing returns
I'm confused too... Although the new ryzen processors has the fastest single core performance
My gut is saying that the 5600X is a better choice than the 3700X for DAW use. The extra two cores (3700X) won't help much, while the better single-core performance (5600X) definitely will. The 3900/3950 probably won't be significantly better in terms of how far you can push things without dropouts.
As for RAM, go with 16GB unless you use a lot of big sample libraries, then push to 32GB or 64GB. The differences you'll see with different RAM speeds (3200, 3600, timings, all that) are truly microscopic compared to any other changes, so don't worry about that - with the Ryzen 5000 just get DDR4-3600 since that's basically the same price.
One interesting note: apparently the Ryzen 5000 series processors work *substantially* better (up to 10%) with four RAM chips vs. two. (Technically it's four "ranks" of RAM vs two "ranks", but it's a bit hard to know whether a given RAM chip is one rank or two, so best to get four individual chips.) So there may be perf benefits going with 4x4GB instead of 2x8GB, for example.
@@chrishillery Deciding between 5600x/g or 2700x/3700x, just curios what did u end up getting, can you recommend one over the other?
@@x7zauman910 I've been running the 5600x happily for over a year. Working great. I haven't used the previous generation Ryzens so I can't directly compare, but I think it's safe to say the 5xxx series is much better.
You should look at the newer 5700g if you can - it's a bit better CPU than the 5600x, but it also includes a reasonably capable graphics engine so you wouldn't need a separate graphics card for DAW work. That could be a savings overall.
@@chrishillery That's really nice, I thank you for the reply!
Does anyone know if Reaper utilizes those cores (or clock speed) any different from Cubase?
Oh, great video btw!
It does, far better. Find someone more knowledgeable to help us understand why
i have ryzen 5 2600 6 cores 12 threads and i'm using bitwig 3, also i'm running my electronic music project at 44.1 16bits with 512 samples busser size - and guess what) i have drops, i have issues with sound, what's going wrong? i think i need better CPU with more cores or problem can be fixed? and my CPU is loaded on 35% only, just don't understand where i'm doing wrong, also i'm using Audient ID4mk2 ASIO driver
Is reyzen 5 2600 is good for music production?
Hi ,please i need one advice from you. I am using Cubase 12 and want to upgrade my ryzen 7 2700x cpu on msi b450 tomahawk max2.
I am looking for
- Ryzen 5 5600x
-Ryzen 7 5800x
- Ryzen 9 5900x
What do you think will be the best choice.Thx
5600x e upgrade za 10-15% od ryzen 2700x, ryzen 7 5800x ke ti e upgrade za 35% od 2700x