My Journey From Mechanical to Ergonomic Keyboards | The Story of Kaly
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- čas přidán 10. 08. 2023
- In this video I share with you my journey from a 100% keyboard to a DIY split ergo keyboard that I designed and built. If you have any questions feel free to ask them in the comments, I will read all of them for sure!
--------------------------- Kaly Resources ------------------------
github.com/Dwctor/Kaly - Kaly's Github
lemmy.world/post/1589095 - Lemmy's post with pictures of Kaly!
kbd.news/Kaly42-2063.html - KBD News article on Kaly
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are the other relevant links mentioned in the video :
------------------------ Keyboard Layouts ------------------------
• You Won’t Believe How ... - Ben Vallack's "You Won't Believe How Effective this Keyboard Layout is"
• My 34 key keymap... (a... - winter Nebs "My 34 key keymap... (and how you can create your own)
----------------------------- Ferris Sweep ---------------------------
github.com/davidphilipbarr/Sweep - Ferris Sweep Github
------------- ErgoMechKeyboards Community -----------
lemmy.world/c/ergomechkeyboards - EMK community Lemmy
/ ergomechkeyboards - EMK community Reddit
---------------------------------- Cantor --------------------------------
github.com/diepala/cantor - Cantor Github
------------------------------ Ben Vallack ----------------------------
• A Tiny, Ultra-Affordab... - Ben Vallack's "A Tiny, Ultra-Affordable Keyboard You Can Build Yourself!"
/ @benvallack - Ben Vallack's CZcams channel.
----------------------------------- Music -------------------------------
Intro typing montage: Tokyo Cafe by TVARI
pixabay.com/music/beats-tvari...
Gigachad remix: • 🎵COPYRIGHT FREE🎵 Bring...
Kaly Design montage: pixabay.com/music/main-title-...
----------------- And, once again, thanks to -----------------
@KyekOfficial and @BenVallack for the great videos!
Obosob for moderating and keeping the EMK community alive!
kbd.news/ for featuring Kaly!
and my father and friend for being there for me. - Věda a technologie
Love the expressive way you're gesturing throughout the whole video, it feels much more personal like that. Please keep this up for your other videos! :D
I'll be sure to keep it up, thanks for the hint! After my semester ends I'll try and get a recording set-up configured for top-down recording like the one of the video!
Amazing tech mate, keep the nice work, you are awesome!
I entered the video with curiosity and left with a new phobia. Great video!
That's impressive buddy! Great work!
I love the video! The editing, music, gestures, and of course the keyboard. Thanks for making this and I'd love to see more from you about the process of designing and making the keyboard.
Thank you for the kind words! If I ever release new videos, it'll be over here!
I too have been down the rabbit hole of custom split keyboards and not finding one that I like coz of their thumb clusters. Kaly looks great and would love to build it. Thanks for making it opensource 😊
Just got my kaly42 pcbs delivered over the weekend! Waiting on a few more components to be delivered before I start soldering. Thanks for open sourcing the project!
It's my pleasure! Please send me pictures of the Kaly42 once it's completed!
thank you, i have had a very similar journey and have been daunted by designing a keyboard, and your video made it seem a lot more doable.
I'm happy to hear that it inspired you! Please reach out to the communities I showed in the video, I am sure that people there will be willing to help you if you have any doubts!
Thanks for sharing your story. I hope you do the in-depth video series as well.
I'm glad you liked! If someday I get some more free time, I'll go in-depth in the parts that are interesting in the whole "Making your own keyboard, layout and getting used to it" :D
Thank you for the shoutout, I really enjoyed hearing how passionate and excited you are about your project!
If you still want to work on it, I have a few improvements to suggest:
1) Add some holes where you could screw the keyboard to a 3d printed case with a tray-mount system.
2) Add some way of tenting the keyboard, the latest trend is magsafe magnetic sticker and magsafe tripod mount
3) Take advantage of the copper layer for your logo so you can make some parts shiny
Hey man, big fan! Thank you for the suggestions! I did think of some of them, but wanted the keyboard faster, which meant cutting the development time short... I will for sure do 1. and 2. However, I do use the copper layer for the mascot, although it was not visible because I got the HASL version instead of the gold plating (cheaper).
Didn't know people were using magsafe tripods at all, will look into it!
I also plan on doing a 36 key version in the future, as some people requested it, but that's for when I have time again (might take a while, as a new semester just started).
Thanks for watching the video, you really were an inspiration!
@@Dwctor If you want to support 36 keys I recommend just making the PCB snappable so people can remove the outer column, instead of designing a separate PCB
I see, I will do just that! Although I personally wouldn't get it as I like to use it without a case and like the sturdiness (am not sure how it would affect it) but I am sure others would like the idea!
I just met this guy in college using an ergo with a unixporn worthy setup (which is also good video material I'd like to see) and I had to ask him about it. Good thing he already has a youtube channel. Keep up the good work bro!
I'm currently with a 60% customized keyboard and almost moving to an ergo (right now inspired to even build one) but for now I'm saving money since I have no wrist pain.
Thank you for the praise! I will consider doing a video on my Linux setup the next time I have some free time, thanks for the suggestion too!
If you have any doubts on setting up a custom Linux system or making keyboards feel free to contact me.
A 60% custom keyboard must be quite nice to have! Send me the details on it sometime!
I don't know. Something about this whole video seems a bit... handwavy
I wonder what made you think that 🤔
I loved the meme parts!
😅I just stumbled into the rabbit hole of ergo split keyboards myself for similar reasons. As a software developer with 25 years of work behind me, all the typing has definitely taken a toll. I’m very excited about finding a design that suits my physiology while downsizing to 34 keys - I started with a low profile Cantor but am ordering a Ferris Sweep, as it fits my hands better. I’m also learning Colemak DH! Who knows… I may even end up designing a few keyboards myself before the dust settles. Thanks for the vid!
If you ever do that, please post pictures on the Lemmy of the community (see desc), people will really enjoy it and welcome you there!
I use Colemak DH in both keyboards (the green one and Kaly) and I am very happy with it!
Thank you also for watching the video and I hope you find the comfortable keyboard you are looking for!
Amazing job, thanks for sharing, for me the most amazing part is the pcb creation, I don't have any about it, but after this I'm very interested. Thanks a lot
I'm glad you enjoyed! Have a look into the videos of Ben Vallack's Ferris Sweep and custom keyboards later down the line to have a closer look into that part of the process! :D
The thumb keys are what annoys me about the cantor and this seems to be the perfect board for me now! Is there any chance that you're working on a hotswap version rn?
I've would definitely want to see the kicad and firmware process! I'm trying to design split keeb myself but mine coding skills are extremely limited so code explanation vid will be a savior for me
The interesting thing about the code of QMK/Vial being open source is that learning to program your own split keyboard is quite close to "stealing" what someone did close to yours and go from there to learn how it is done! The idea would be to teach how to do that in an efficient and working manner.
Kind of like the old saying "good artists borrow, great artists steal"!
Something close applies to the KiCad process, if you can't organize libraries, take the ones in existing projects and learn from that!
Would love to see the complete journey - from testing the design on paper/tablet, over designing in KiCad til firmware design. Thinking about starting the same journey since weeks/months, but unfortunately did not had the time. So maybe your journey would give me a kick in my backside seatingplate to start. Thanks for this video.
I'm glad you liked it! Sadly, I am very busy at the moment with a faculty semester and a few other worries. However, I will add this to a backlog of possible future videos! Thanks for the suggestion.
imagine putting the wooting switches on this bad boy holy cow
I recently got into split wrgo keyboards. I and subbing to you to learn more
Thank you very much for the sub! Most likely my next video will be on Keyboard layouts for ergonomic keyboards! (Although it'll take a long while :P) I have a few nice ideas to share that can help new people to the hobby to make or improve their own layouts! (most ergo boards are fully programmable, so making your own layout is something really cool to do!)
I am currently in process of transitioning from conventional 75% to Sofle v2.1.
- I've found that, even despite conventional board stagger supporting RIGHT hand, my LEFT hand always rests on the table and feels most comfortable typing a lot and using all the mod keys, while the right one is always "hovering", and flying over the board suspended like that. And i manage to pull comfortable consistent 80wpm, or occasional 100wpm with that "awful" position and not a good posture. And pinky is not even used, while ring finger "turns off" when i go into "speed mode" (even though it should become more active???)
- While i type on Sofle, both my hands usually rest on the table, because the very way i type, subconsciously, is different, even though i use the same QWERTY layout
- There's no difference if i put the halves closer or more apart, apart from novelty factor and feeling more comfy in the shoulders, but there IS a difference when i change the tilt angle of the halves.
Also, conventional kb's have some pros that ergo boards actually lose!
- Long modkeys means you can slide your pinky over them, both feeling them and accessing most of the board by stretching the hand. Not ergonomical, but functional.
- Doing a big move of right hand to press the enter with the "center mass" (middle/middle+ring fingers) is more conscious and less accidental than ergo's "lightly put your thumb down".
Had an opportunity to try charybdis for 2 days and found it VERY comfortable, but also, unfortunately, unusable, because i can't touch-type (yet)
This is great, im interested in building my own
Are you interested in building your own Kaly or a whole new keyboard? If/when I do make a video about keyboard again the answer could help me decide what to focus on!
@@Dwctor I'm a beginner to this, i did build a custom keyboard for me but no ergonomic or split one.
I'm also not new to soldering but never did it with a keyboard, my custom one has this hotswap for switches, no soldering needed.
I'm interested in the Kaly you made, but I'm still researching a lot, so I'm also not sure yet on what exactly to do.
A fully custom one would be cool i guess, but I'm not sure if I'm confident enough.
I like that Kaly you did, even so the mascot is not exactly what i would describe as cute, its a great idea tho o((>ω< ))o its some what cute.
I need something ergonomic, I'm a PC power user, work related, and i do digital art and i also play games in my free time so, on average I'm definitely almost every day 12h at a desk. Ive already pain in my right hand, that's why i had to tune down on my gaming, but on the other stuff i can not tune down at all.
That's why I'm interested into ergonomic keyboards and such, but in my lifetime I've managed to kill several keyboards by knocking over some liquid.
May be its because of my ADHD idk but i think I've killed like 4 keyboards and one of them was over 200€ so yeah, I've to watch out for that.
A split one has the advantage of the space in between where you can put lets say your coffee or drink, and not knock it over so easily, and what i like about the kaly, its small, i would need to take it with me to work. So it fulfills some categories but not all. I'm afraid what might happen when i accidentally still spill something on it. It happens like ones a year or so (っ °Д °;)っ
Last time on my custom one, the keyboard did cost me over all around 400€ and I'm anything but rich, i save up for this stuff.
I completely disassembled my keyboard and cleaned it with isopropanol, it works just fine now. But some how i always manage to knock some liquid over on my desk...
The cheap factor makes the kaly appealing because even when something might happen, it wont hurt to much.
Also i like the design and the fact with the thumb not going in to much, it really annoys me as well, when Ive to bend my thumb, for example to the Alt or super key on regular keybards, just to the inside of my palm, its not comfortable at all, I totally feel what you meant when you explained that.
One thing that is also in my mind, but idk if that info might help you at all for any content. Ive to change my language some times, im german and key US layout keyboards are slightly different, I also write some times in japanese and thats totally different, and i do speak a little russian as well. So ive to memorize different layouts and when changing the layout in windows it also changes where keys like %$€ those are ect.
With your keyboard i would need to memorize or set up a lot of keys before getting used to it and may be struggle a little with it.
Ive a regular keyboard and my custom on on my desk, so sometimes i just look at my regular and use the buttons there, but its only like 1~5% of the time when i use my keyboard. I guess that's something every one has to face when they build a custom keyboard, but for total beginners this can be scary. It takes some time to get used to a layout, i'm sure you know that, and when you go somewhere else, you might not have your keyboard with you, so you would still need to know the regular layout. I think this layout problem and people being lazy with it, is a big reason why people don't want to invest into a custom keyboard, especially if its so much different from a regular one like the kaly. So may be you could address this, im personally not to concerned tho.
Hope that helps. cheers
@@l3xitscomplicated191 The idea of addressing keyboard layouts in a video would be great! I haven't seen many people talking about it and with you comment I just noticed that it might be an issue that others struggle with! I did have to make my layout from scratch, but it took no more than an afternoon and I started memorizing it quite quick, as I had made it myself and I made it make sense (so, for example, operators like /*-+ or these > [](){} are all beside each other!). I think that the hardest part of learning a layout is learning something that doesn't make much sense (why put symbols in numbers?) that isn't made by yourself.
If you can do regular soldering, you can for sure do it with a keyboard! It's ridiculously easy compared to most other jobs. The firmware part can be trivialized as soon as I release the one I left ready for people (sorry, might take a small while, I've been busy). The rest would be planning and ordering the parts. And the Kaly should be reasonably spill resistant, as the only part that can be damaged by a spill is the microcontroler. However, if it's spilled on when it's not plugged in, it will have 0 damage, just clean it and it'll be as good as new. (not tested and purely speculative).
But yeah. with Aliexpress parts, soldering knowledge and some time you can for sure make it for about 50 Euros (without counting import taxes, that will depend on where you live) and a weekend to set it up and solder it. For most people getting used to it can take some time, but it's for sure manageable and there are many tips and tricks in the EMK community. Good luck on your endeavors whatever you decide it to be!
@@Dwctor thanks for the Infos ill definitely keep considering the kaly for all the reasons you mentioned. How ever, as a lazy mf being my self, i know there are many lazy fks out there, who would want an all in one package. To have a simple everything inside package and then assemble it, instead of doing research and looking for the parts. If you could make this at some point happen, that would be great, but i also know its not easily done and would require a lot of work. A good how to get every thing guide and how to assemble and make everything work properly guide is also something that would carry more people to buy the parts and consider the kaly. May be you could make such a video.
The kaly seems like the perfect keyboard especially with tje thumb keys! Is there any chance you're working on a hotswap version?
Thanks for the compliment! Sadly, I am not currently working on any new versions of the Kaly, as my personal life has been pretty chaotic. If I ever do, I'll release a small video announcing it, so stay tuned if that interests you!
This is incredible!
I want to produce my own. I’d love a step by step guide.
I think I'll put it into my backlog then! (might take long though, don't get your hopes up too soon!)
@@DwctorI built one and added you on discord for the QMK
@@kiyyou116 Hello! I don't quite see your invite on discord, could you make sure you sent it to "dwctor"? As soon as I get your invite we can talk there!
@@kiyyou116 Oh, and a detail that I forgot to mention in the video, but is important for almost all split keyboard users to know: the trrs connection (the one between halves in the Kaly) doesn't allow you to unplug during usage. So always unplug the usb-C or make sure the desktop/laptop isn't suplying power to the keyboard, or the microcontroller may burn.
great video, the hand movement reminded me of azelbeatbox but yeah :)
czcams.com/video/vmMFA4_IceA/video.html Didn't have to violate me like that ;-;. Jokes aside glad you liked it!
I love this video, we lose a lot of hand gestures with overhead camera work
Also I love this design. It's really nice
@@halfwit2 Thank you very much for the support! I am glad you liked it! I didn't think much of the gestures in the video, but I am happy that people seem to enjoy it!
I would like to build the Kaly and have already ordered the Micro Controllers and wanted to finish my first build with the Ferris sweep. But I have a problem, I have no idea how to get firmware on the keyboard, especially on the Kaly. How can I do that?
Hey man! The firmware is done through QMK (qmk.fm/). If you need any more help hit me up on discord or search videos about QMK!
@@Dwctor thanks for replying, i looked everywhere!!! for your discord, didn't find it..
@@SUZ0Y It's "dwctor", feel free to add me there!
I'm very close to placing an order on pcbway of this keeb! Do you have any unpushed revisions that I should wait for? 😀
I'm glad to hear that! Sadly no, I don't have any revisions planned for anytime soon (it works great for me and I had no issues so far).
I plan on maybe making a hotswap version in the future and maybe adding a mount for easier tenting, but those are plans for months from now, so don't expect them anytime soon!
If you end up making the Kaly, please send a picture of it my way! Also, if I don't manage to get the firmware to the Vial repos by the time you get it, please contact me for the firmware! (It is ready, I just didn't push them to the QMK/Vial repos yet).
My discord has the same username as this channel, feel free to contact me if you get any troubles. Thanks for watching and having an interest in my keyboard :D
@@Dwctor Awesome, will do! Thank you for the design and the effort!
If i were to do my own riff on the cantor it would look very similar, if not identical, to your kaly! It seems to fit my hands very good.
Yeah, the tenting is something that I need to solve since I need it to not feel pain in my arms. I don’t have a 3d-printer (yet) so I can't really make anything custom. I did however find some laptop feet on aliexpress that I think will do nicely.
I also just put the order in on all the parts! Now the waiting game begins.
@@ericlindell3777 I'm glad to hear all of that! If you need any help, feel free to hit me up on Discord, I'll be there to try and help where possible. I also just did a pull request with the firmware of Kaly to the QMK repository, so soon people won't need to come to me for it! (keep an eye in the open issue of Kaly's GitHub, as soon as it's done I'll close the issue!)
Even if you don't need any help, please send me a picture of your Kaly finished, it'll make my day :D
Poggers
Opa, e aí Kael, vi no seu Github que você é de BH. Sou de SP. Tenho algumas dúvidas sobre esse teclado. Foi o que eu mais achei que atendia ao que eu queria!
1- Minha primeira dúvida é com relação a conversão desse modelo pra Wireless. Teria que mudar alguma coisa na PCB? Ou as controladoras tem o mesmo padrão de pinos?
2 - Considerando o uso da Blackpill mesmo, com fio, seria possível converter de QMK pra ZMK?
3 - A importação das placas do JLCPCB Está dando 300 reais kkkkk é isso mesmo? Existe alguma maneira de baratear isso? Ou você pagou caro mesmo?
Bom?
1 - Infelizmente para tornar o teclado wireless seria necessário um microcontrolador novo e eu não sei qual seria adequado para fazer isso. Ele teria de ter os mesmos "pin-outs" do blackpill. Caso você encontre um assim, basta criar um código em ZMK e não soldar o conector P2 que tudo DEVE funcionar!
2 - A conversão tem de ser feita manualmente, não tem um convertor de QMK para ZMK que eu saiba.
3 - Quando estiver no carrinho, da uma olhada nas opções de frete, algumas custam 300+ reais enquanto outras bem menos (até 50~)! No meu caso acabou ficando 55 reais o PCB mais 54 reais o frete, para um total de 110 reais. Note que como o JLCPCB não é parte do Remessa Conforme você provavelmente terá de pagar taxas de importação
Desculpe o atraso na resposta, esses últimos dias foram bem ocupados. Caso tenha mais dúvidas é só responder a esse comentário!
Obrigado por assistir o video e ter interesse!
@@Dwctor Obrigado pela resposta! Acho que não tentarei adaptar, vou montar do jeito que está e quem sabe tento desenvolver algum do zero mais pra frente! Esse vai ser meu primeiro teclado personalizado, e o primeiro que é split kkkkk
@@DarinLesPaulMe parece um sucesso então, a melhor das sortes! Qualquer coisa estou a disposição para ajudar.
Está é a thread de quem fala português então? Kkk...
Cara, parabéns pelo trampo, pela história, determinação e pelo vídeo. Ficou nota 10, e o projeto da vontade de montar! A minha trajetória está sendo bem parecida até aqui, estou com um cstc40 que comprei no Aliexpress já soldado, curtindo muito e arranquei os caps dos cantos inferiores por serem ruins de alcançar com o dedão. Como uso vim, uso as setas na home row mesmo , estava tomando coragem de tentar o corne como primeiro split e trombei com seu projeto por um comment de CZcams, vou imprimir e fazer um teste drive, fiquei curioso sobre este lance de testar num tablet tb, vou atrás! Parabéns de novo!
@@fczuardi obrigado pelas palavras gentis! Se precisar de ajuda, estamos sempre aqui, só chamar!
Lol, you actually have the keyboard I want to build : 42 keys, agressive plinky stagger, wireless (I assume). Is there a way to order this from Europe ?
Sadly the Kaly42 isn't wireless! It uses a TRRS cable to connect the halves and one half goes to the PC through usb-c. Sadly I am not selling the Kaly, so it can't be ordered. If you want to have your own Kaly, you'd need to source the parts yourself.
I used JLCPCB for the circuit board (files in the Github, check the description!) and bought all the other parts in aliexpress. IIRC I added parts list to the Github of Kaly!
If you have any other questions feel free to ask!
🗿🍷
How do you learn to communicate with your hands like that?
According to my father I do that since I was small ;P
So I guess just a lot of practice? It's not something had to pick up I think :D. It helps if you think of what you are going to say a bit before the gesture so that you can plan it with the words, (or make a script!) but it's pretty much natural for me now, so I don't need it, it just helps!
Pcb design please
You can find it in the Kaly's Github! (github.com/Dwctor/Kaly). Look into the KalyPCB folder for the KiCad files or into the Gerber folder if you want to make your own!
This information and more can be found in the video description, give it a quick read later!
I injured my wrists a while back and have taken a liking to ergo keyboards, but really want an ergo mech keyboard though the prebuilt ones have been financially out of reach. This looks like a very interesting project for that reason.
I've tried 61 key keyboards though and have had a hard time getting used to the using function keys for things like arrow keys and numbers, so I'm not sure a keyboard with so few keys is right for me. As a programmer, I'm curious how having fewer keys and more complicated movements to hit things you might need like arrow keys and numbers improves your typing experience. I understand the point you made in the video, of needing to move your hands less, but if you're typing a lot of numbers, isn't it uncomfortable and inconvenient to hold down function shifting keys and not having a true numpad?
That said, a video series to teach DIY keyboard design is interesting, and if I had the time and resources, I'd love to make my own ergo mech keyboard with just the extra dedicated keys I like having and otherwise keep a small and minimal design.
Hello! Thanks for sharing your experience with me, it is always welcome to be able so see things from another's perspective!
I understand the discomfort of trying to use function keys in 61-key keyboards and I think it stems from the fact that you are required to press a "fn" key that is almost always in a really uncomfortable position and that makes you move (and turn temporarily useless) a full hand to do so. I think that is where this style of 36/42 key keyboards shine, they allow you to press various "fn" keys that are under your fingers! In my case, the home row of both hands have the alt, win, ctrl, shift keys in that order from outer to inner and the thumb keys are all "fn" keys, which include a symbols and numbers layer, a movement layer, a mouse layer and an i3 shortcuts layer (my window manager, you can see more in one of my other videos where I talk about tiling window managers!).
I too am a programmer (currently in university) and I find this keyboard considerably more comfortable thanks to the fact that the /*-+, [](){}, !@#$%^& and number keys are all under my fingers at all times! (I don't need to dart my right hand around searching for those keys). As a result I get a great deal of comfort that took just a bit of time to get used to. (I mostly dislike +=-_, []{} and having to reach for the numpad in normal keyboards). Also, the ability to move my cursor or reach the arrow keys from rest is always nice! Thanks to that, I can use vim and still leverage the power of the home, end, arrow keys, page up and down and more without it being far from my hands! (Half of the reason why vim has so many shortcuts is to move useful functions under your fingers, but what if that was already embedded in your keyboard?)
I understand that it isn't for everyone and that for most people it will take time to get used to (It took me like 30mins tbh, but I am aware that it is not the norm and most people take really long to get used to it) and that I was pushed into it thanks to my injury (I think I would slowly get into it over the course of many years instead of speedrun it in 3 months), but I can say now that my injury has healed that I prefer my new keyboard for pretty much 90% of activities! (the other 10% being games that use WAAAYYY too many shortcuts, like Starcraft 2 for example).
Ps: my keyboards have switches of 20g and 40g (there are two pairs shown in the video), so holding down keys takes no effort and causes no discomfort, as it's under my hand and really light to press!
I hope I managed to quell some of your worries/doubts on this matter. If you still have any questions, feel free to ask them!
do you want to sell one?
@@proactivex not right now, thanks for the opportunity!
Teclado ABNT-2 🤔
I wondered how people knew where I was from using this video. Now it all makes sense lol! Didn't think of that detail.
why didn't you just buy a corne, looks almost the same
The corne's key layout would give me pain in the tendons and ligaments, while the Kaly was made for the precise rest position of my hands given my tendinitis
насмотрелся этих роликов. собрал себе клаву. неудобная хрень. Если вы не печатаете постоянно текст даже не думайте о такой клавиатуре.