Jordan Series Drogue deployment, retrieval and chain plate discussion
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- čas přidán 26. 09. 2020
- I did a video already on my singlehanded passage from the Azores when I had to use the Series Drogue but this is a watered down version which focuses specifically on the use of the drogue with some additional bits about the deployment and chain plates at the end. The other is more of a story and this is specifically about the drogue as learning material.
The drogue is around 150m long with around 147 cones on a 17T displacement boat. The chain plates are custom designed and overhang the stern by about 12 inches. The designs of these chain plates can be found here:
www.chasing-contours.com/serie...
They are attached using Crosby Shackles with a working load of 7 tonnes and a breaking strength of 21 tonnes each!
The drogue is built by www.oceanbrake.com
Comment or contact me directly via my site chasing-contours.com
That is some serious engineering. Great job!
Great video. I've never been on a boat, but for some reason, I've always been fascinated by the series drogue.
That’s fair praise from you! I remember seeing you talk in Bristol and always been fascinated by big wall climbing but never had the chance. But also by the adventures of Tilman. Joining up sailing and climbing has always been a dream.
P.s I hosted a talk with the Ocean Cruising Club recently specifically about the technical aspects and use of the JSD if you’re interested 🤷🏼
Well done putting this story together. Alive to tell the story because you deployed to drogue.
Good explanation of the design and use of the drogue!
Wow that is the most helpful and complete video I have seen so far on a JSD set up and example of deployment and recovery. Found your video via the SH FB page so now subscribed and look forward to seeing more videos. I have been trying to decide whether to buy a JSD for future long distance sailing but so,e experience on the GGR and elsewhere made me think again. I am now inclined to think it would be a good idea. I sail a Rival 32 so much smaller boat. Many thanks for sharing. Andy UK
The issues on the GGR was extreme and the issue has been resolved. If I were going to the southern ocean in those conditions she experienced I’d certainly want something for a worst case scenario other than just relying on staying at the helm and hand steering down every wave.
I my case I could have managed without the JSD but it would have been miserable.
Chasing Contours Yes I wasn’t referring to Susie specifically but I understand what you are saying. I have read lots by Fatty Goodlander and he knows a thing or two about sailing in heavy storms but then again maybe not so much the Southern Ocean.
@@AndyUK-Corrival yeah and I have much to learn about storm sailing. I’d like to try heave to but trailing a small single drogue in the bow just to keep the bow high into the wind and prevent it being knocked off. I believe that would be a good tactic that I’ve never tried. I had intended to do that until my mainsail ripped.
Chasing Contours Yes, you had a bit of bad luck the main ripping and also your engine. You may have read it but Storm Proofing by Cap’n Fatty Goodlander is a great book. He doesn’t preach what he thinks everyone should do but shares his experiences and methods in a very good way, IMO. He talks about parachute anchors from the boat and how the strains on those can be huge compared to a JSD even. No one way to skin a cat as they say. A
I agree with Andy UK, a great video, and a very clear description and depiction of the drogue deployment, retrieval, and setup. I'm doing the GGR 2022 and will definitely be using a series drogue of some sort particularly after seeing your well thought out video. I've also subscribed to your channel and look forward to anything else you post. Thank you
Congrats on the GGR entry! You have more guts than me! Very much looking forward to it already. What boat will be taking?
@@ChasingContours G'day Mate, yes the GGR is going to be very exciting. Not so much guts, just passion and preparation. I'm sailing a Vancouver 36 (Harris) which I reckon is ideal for the race. Having some trouble getting people to assist with products or some funds to help me due to the current situation. I've acquired the boat through the generous support of the previous owner; it's in Virginia USA. I'm in Australia and can't get to her to carry out prep. Hopefully, both situations will change. Love your video on the JSD by the way. You're a great presenter. It's great that you'll be following the race. Cheers and hopefully one day we can catch up.
@@shane4131 yeah I hope things clear up soon for you to prep. You certainly want to feel you’re ready when the time comes. Don’t do a Donald Crowhurst ;)
If I’m not sailing somewhere during the start I’ll head over for it.
@@ChasingContoursnot into trimarans. That'd be great. Cheers Shane
Shane I can’t see you on the GGR entries list. Are you still planning a last minute entry?
An excellent video. Thanks
Ohh l miss the sailing so much now l have to do a lot of refitting before l will set the sails up.
Very Helpful. Thank you!!
Excellent video.
You can consider deploying a little sail to increase your speed. This might reduce cockpit flooding with the JSD. Additionally, this might reduce slack in the bridle, keep the boat straight etc. Again, great attachment to avoid chafe.
Yeah I think your probably right with a little sail. The first night it wasn’t needed as it was going well under bare poles but the second day it decided to about 35-40kts and perhaps then a little sail would have been worthwhile.
Great video. Thanks
Thank you..
Great video of Jordan Series of drogue. We purchased as well one and have it set up for our next voyage. Since our boat is canoe shape double ender we are thinking putting the bridals through the hawsepipes to the center morning post- thinking that the hawsepipes take most of the load? Was the JSD so heavy that it is easier to deploy it by winch? We have 132 cones waiting never to be deployed. Thanks for all this great information! Helena from Sailing Liberty
Hi nice video thanks Also wondering Whats the make and model of your boat Looks great
SeaStream 43
which sailboat do you sail with boat tour ?
Really helpful video thanks. I have nearly finished my JSD and have been looking for a suitable bag for deployment. Yours looks great .. can you give a few more details? You call it a dry bag but It seems to have mesh sides, is that right?
It’s basically a huge heavy duty drybag by Lomo. Quite thick material so you can haul it about without damaging it or the JSD inside. I believe it was this one:
www.lomo.co.uk/acatalog/dry-sacks-100L-info_359.html#SID=117
Don’t be put off by the price. Lomo manufacture and only sell direct so they don’t pay wholesalers a cut and can sell quality stuff a lot cheaper.
@@ChasingContours brilliant thanks. No common in sailing to be put off by no prices but I know exactly what you mean. Now ordered.
We carry a JSD, but have never had to deploy it. I've always though that, instead of dumping the chain first, instead, pay out the bridal first and then slowly pay out the rest of the drogue, as there shouldn't be much load on the paying out side, as those chutes would be backwards. Thoughts?
Hi Steve. That would work initially but the drag just warps alone is significant, never mind a rope with a bite and backwards cones. After perhaps 30mm it would start to pull it out by itself strongly and then you risk it snagging itself as you trailing a large bite (loop). That sounds really hazardous. You really don’t want to paying out anything in case something gets trapped. You want to throw it over and get clear of it entirely. If it’s flaked into a bag carefully it will come out clean every time.
Great video! I am contemplating buying a drogue from oceanbrake and wonder whether you would tell what they are like to deal with, as I am located in Melbourne Australia. Did you find that the drogue was well made and have you required it to be repaired or serviced following its use? Has Oceanbrake been professional to deal and responsive to your requirements? Any feedback you can offer would be very much appreciated. Safe sailing from Gary on Meshugah in Melbourne.
Hi. Yeah they are a small rigging company in England. They’re not a big outfit as the demand for series drogues is not huge. I have had dealings with them after I bought my drogue since I sent back my drogue to have the flemish loop removed and replaced with a splice since it is stronger. This was after I’d owned it for 3 years. They offered to do this free for any customer after Susie Goodall’s snapped in the southern ocean. That’s good service and it’s debatable whether is was needed. I did a video on that also in my channel. The guy to speak to there is Angus Coleman.
Enjoyed the video.
I may have missed this as I did get distracted a few times but - why didn’t you heave to instead of deploying a drogue?
They seem to be the in thing I know, but unless deployed off a Colin Archer type double ender or maybe canoe stern boat I just don’t get how exposing a flat transom to seas is a good idea?
Also they are hugely cumbersome and if the sea state had changed to regular breaking waves and you needed an alternative the only only option would be to cut it free as you’d never ever get it in.
I ripped my main while trying to Heave to. After that I couldn’t get it to sit at a decent angle with just a headsail.
I keep thinking a third "tag line" on the drouge weight ? For retrieving ?
Many people have considered this but it provides too much risk of tangling
Man, great vidio and all that... but what a want to say is... you llok like Steve Vay.
I just use a anchor buoy anchor windless and the engine. The same as retrieving an anchor
An anchor buoy attaches where? To the end of the drogue?
For any drogue, fit a trip line to retrieve easily. Trip lines DO NOT foul the rode. I retrieve my Jordan series by hand in one minute.
How do you retrieve the trip line? If it comes back to the boat then it will foul the main rode. If you add a float then it will mean you firstly have to circle round to get it and secondly it’ll prevent the JSD sinking and performing its intended function.
@@ChasingContours The trip line is fastened to the weight (no float) and runs loosely back to the cockpit. It is deployed with the rode and never tangles. I've tested this at sea. The prospect of spending 2 hours retrieving a tripless rode is a dangerous disincentive to timely deployment.
Chris. How many times have you tested this method? I’m doing a webinar to the Ocean Cruising Club on 11th of January. There will be 100-200 long distance sailors watching. I’d be keen to recount your experience with a tripping line.
@@ChasingContours Once off Madeira in a 1m swell. Not ideal but waiting for a big blow test.. I also tested the Ocean Brake manufacture for towing resistance. The 12m yacht / 55hp Volvo managed 2.5 knots contradicting the total brake idea (rode should be able to suspend the yacht!). I tie off the bridles securely on 2 + 2 winches without chain plates.
@@chriscooling4781I don’t think a 1m swell will be useful for testing retrieval. After a a big blow you’ll have 4-5m non breaking waves left over. That is the scenario to test. You use the swell to aid retrieval. I’m talking to Jeanne Socrates tomorrow to hear her accounts. She has used one in the southern ocean multiple times singlehanded.
Loved this has deployment video. I've yet to use mine in anger, but I do worry about it getting tangled up in the wind vane using your method. There is an article on the occ Facebook page suggesting a more controlled launch. I'm not saying this is better but it will give an opportunity to sort any tangles out before the load comes on. Here is the Facebook link m.facebook.com/groups/378596952153031/permalink/4141232269222795/
Typo...
"has" = JSD
Do you mean the launch method by Susanne Huber-Curphey? If so I’m really not a fan of it. It contains too much complexity. Having the drogue flakes into a bag is a proven method and I’ve used it for climbing ropes and shore lines many times without issue. If it goes in the bag one way then it will come out the same. I see no risk fouling self steering gear since the boat will inevitably be going fast down wind at the point of deployment.
@@ChasingContours yes I'm referring to Susanne's method. Re-reading her description and strong recommendation shows that her main point is that the Bridle goes first, then the leader and cones, finally the weight. She does not mention how she stowed the JSD, but I assumed she used the well tried and proven method that you suggest of flaking it Ito a bag.
The only difference being that the Bridle is first out rather than last out.
Loved you talk on OCC the other week.
@@gcrothers thanks. I’m doing another at the end of April about the Canary Islands and making it adventurous. Not sure if it’s on the OCC website yet.
An excellent video. Thanks