Engine Knock, False Knock, Knock Sensor Sensitivity Explained!
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- čas přidán 7. 12. 2020
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Got my maf tuned with no hiccups thanks to the goatrope teacher 👨🏫, now im moving onto learning spark timing wish me luck guys.
I really appreciate you adding this to all the generation guides!! Made finding it tonight really easy. You’re the man!
THIS IS THE M.F. VIDEO IVE BEEN NEEDING! Thanks for all your help Kyle, been a long road getting my Tahoe running right, this should help immensely!
What tahoe do you have? I've got a GMT 800 with LQ9 build. Trying to Tune PE but knock is entering the scene. Typically motor doesn't register ANY knock say during cruise, but when I go to 30%+ throttle it can knock at completely random spots in the table RPM / Cylinder airmass. I added TONS of fuel and it won't knock at ALL now but was just a test. I'm not sure what to do from here...
Right on Kyle. I'm going to be working on figuring out if my low rpm knock is real. Great stuff as always.
Great video Kyle. I had to do this with that Cammed 2012 Ram I asked you about.
Very Helpful, when I was in a spot. perfect!!
I didn’t know I needed this until I got it 😆 thanks for the great video
Thanks for the clip. I suspect I've got some false knock after installing some LT headers on my gen 3 LS1. I can hear some vibrations and possible clearance issues, so it might be time to get HP tuners!
Just bought a T-shirt, and you all should buy some GRG merch too. Let's help keep this thing growing. "MTGA" Make Tuning Great Again.
thanks for the info, curious if valve float could be detected by the ECU as knock.
Magnuson sc on c5 z06. Suddenly KR one day max KR pulling all the timing as soon as in the throttle. I pulled 8 degrees timing this is now like 14 degrees crossing into boost. It still max KR even if you roll into the throttle it pulls all the timing and the KR wouldn’t even decay unless you completely get off throttle. I used this video removed the burst and desensitized a bit. The supercharge has to be making a noise or something causing false knock. Thanks so much!! Just put a mew vid up of another ls car I’m helping out on and will put one of the vette up today if I can.
this is a killer video a little confusing to find out exactly where the Knock is but overall i know how to adjust it on the gen V thanks
I recently did a video turning off knock control all together on a 4.8 Silverado using a external knock monitor to view and listen to a wideband knock sensor (doing a give away on one on that video still) on the dyno and compared the GM knock control strategy vs. custom using the external unit and was pretty shocked by the difference. I think that was a bit of a wild card but still was fun to play around with. About half way through this video now, curious to see your approach 🤘
It's aggressive, that's for sure!
I just installed knock link knock light on my zo6 corvette boy does it work! I also needed this info!
What's up @Joe Simpson!
If I am only using torque pro to monitor KR on a stock 4.8 Silverado 3rd gen, and kr always creeps up to 6+ degrees as the rpm increases, would this likely be false knock? I don't hear any knock and I don't often see any knock at all at low rpm, high low take off situations (truck is loaded heavily with work gear), it just creeps in with speed and rpm (above say 2400 rpm or so). No codes and it runs fine, I just want to help make this thing last forever.
do you find false knock when using energy bushings for engine mounts? I am building a boosted 408 ls putting it in a 78 jeep j10 and using dom and energy suspension bushings for engine mounts and wondering if that will be to stiff of a mount causing false knock readings. thanks
@GoatRopeGarage - why just 15% added to knock sensitivity? Seems like a small increase over a large range (my stock Gen3 setting is 9.0) like yours was in the video before you added 15%. I also notice that Cylinder #1 and #4 don’t have the same sensitivity value?
How to you know if it’s real knock or you just are desensitizing real knock.
hey got a question for you i got 1990 blazer 5.7 tbi had engine rebuild about month ago got a few up grades bigger cam so i had to get my computer chip tune to raise fuel and timing on the chip i change pressure regulator and adjust that the cam i have in there is xe 262 h comp cam the block was 30 over.and i still have the factory swirl port heads i should had put some vortec heads on there...but for some reason cant get it to run right just dont have no power and im getting a ping sound from engine and #6 had oil on spark plug threads only the rest of plugs are fine i dont no where im getting the ping sound dont no if the oil on the spark plug have anything to do with it or something with the fuel and timing is not right..
i subscribed for tbe Star Wars Legos. The knock and Holley info is just a bonus.
What operating system patches should I use on gen 4 E38 when going to run 20 lbs of boost
have you ever seen a data log with every cell except the first row horizontal and first row vertical there reading 0 but literally every other cell hit in the log all read 8? i am new to this stuff but all 8's and 2 straight rows of 0's seems suspicious. plus when i try reducing the timing 8 deg still get the same 8's everywhere looking data log, but like i say i am new and all ears to any suggestions knowledge exc, also thought id tell ya thanks for these vids to! tho i probably would have given up figuring this stuff out if it wasn't for your awesome videos giving me the knowledge and confidence to stick with it! and learn everything i could. and not try and take any short cuts like i often do in life, so thanks for that. I picked for my first vehicle to try and tune a S10 i LQ4 swapped and half way through the swap decided i might want to turbo charge this some day, thinking to my self one day and i wouldn't want to have to build custom stainless headers and full exhaust for this thing twice down the road i better just get it all right the first time so ya 1st is LQ4 being feed by a s475 with a t4 hot side and AR of 1.25 but i had her running great just this odd knock thing that started first thing when i pulled the hot rod out to see the sun after its hibernation this last winter. i had it running better then any stock truck i have ever owned for sure. hoping its something simple. thanks again
Awesome videos thanks for all the info! Watched the Gen 4 Spark tuning video as well(And more). have you ever ran into this scenario. Stock NA Gen 4 e38 6.0 (Burst knock is off etc..) Using my Stock High octane table from the factory I'm showing spark knock. I cant find a pattern in my logs, it seems to happen what would be considered randomly sometimes as much as 5 degrees. 225K mile motor. Should i desensitize whole table? or is there maybe a physical part that might be my culprit? I have looked for anything that could be rattling.(VE and MAF are both dialed in already, I am in Texas heat though)
Have this issue on my Gen 4 5.3 now. Any luck?
So excited to finally have this video. Would it make sense to build a histogram on the scanner that mimics the knock sensor sensitivity table to help track where the events are happening?
Build one that matches your spark table and then use the knock retard parameter to populate it, shows you where you're getting knock on your spark table. The default layout has an example and so do my layouts on the website.
@@GoatRopeGarage yea I’ve got one for the knock based on the timing table already to pull timing out, but I’m asking if it might also help to build a histogram that would mirror the knock sensor sensitivity table to dial that piece in too.
@@jasonn4397i think is enough with dialing the total knock retard . And pulling from the high octane table what you see in the log
Is this completely safe specially the knock burst part zeroing all of these seems scary man
Kyle I’ve been seeing a ton of KR problems on all these Gen V trucks. Even light load operation. Have you seen the same thing? Is this a common problem on the Gen V trucks?
Hi dude !
Tell me, did you already deal with Plex Knock Monitor to tune Gen 4 KS to Gen 3 PCM or use Plex to tune Gen 3 KS relocated on the side of a LS Gen 4?
I have 2015 Mustang GT with twin turbo set up. 9.5psi at the moment. Running E85 testing at 87%. When I stab the throttle it jumps +9.99 knock and stays there through the gears. When I gently/slowly roll on the throttle until wide open its -2 knock through the gears. Ive literally spent countless hours searching and fixing anything that could be tapping or hitting under Torque and it changes nothing. Is this +9.9 I'm getting possible false knock?
Can you make a video for gen3 gen4’s on fuel economy tuning to get better mpg
Hi sir need help figuring spark cut table on e38.says for driveline clunk??could i just disable that
Might be my iat. Vcm scanned it at some point 150but Diablo shows 90. I did adjust temp sensor and will check in moring again
is pre detonation different from pre ignition? I had thought it was either detonation; second unintentional combustion on the power stroke or pre ignition; combustion on the compression stroke
My problem is that I don't get any knock shown on the knock retart table. I'm logging knock retart , cylinder airmass on my P&IDs and kept adding spark little by little till I got to 32 degrees of advance to see if I can get some knock but not even 1 degree of knock comes up on the graph just zeros and put it back to 22 degrees. Its a gen 3 5.3l LT headers, 3" pipe, NNBS intake, K&N cool air intake, Full built transmission (4L60 E), TBSS stall 2600-2800, and a cam motion junk yard dog camshaft (232/244 lsa 111+4 int .621 exh .604). I don't know if my knock sensors are not working or turn off i replaced them when I installed the motor on my truck. Checked all the parameters on the knock sensors and compared to a bone stock file and they are exactly the same.
can we use gen 4 knock sensors with a gen 3 computer ? or it wont be tunable ? i had a failure on my gen 3 engine so i got a gen 4 block and swapped out the crank reluctor to 24x and the cam 1x so im just missing the knock sensors .. i do have new gen 3 sensors i just didnt wanna drill and tap the block ...
The last piece I need
@9:49 Options for "KNOCK SENSOR LEVEL: INITIAL LEVEL, MIN LEVEL" -- you didn't drill into this. I'm playing heck w/replacing KNOCK SENSORS and the monitors are complaining on 2002 Silverado 1500 w/P327 and P332! Don't have access to HP TUNERS -- but any chance those value adjustments affect throwing these codes??? Thanks!
What is it when the knock sensor goes into the negative? Going by my Nguauge.
I do this quite a bit on Mopars. Them crazy things are super sensitive. I tuned one Mopar that had a Diablo tune on it. I bet the cost of the tuning plus 200 bucks that I could make more power with HPT than the Diablo. Let's just say I got paid. Dude couldn't stop smiling. Lol
Yeah, they live to dial those things up
That weird engine I have doesn't have a way to turn down my knock sensor, at least that I've found. I basically gave up. I think I'm at like 15° advance at the high-end WOT. I still get knock at 10! Ima start messing with it again though I think.
What's up man, thanks for the video! So, I've got a 3.6L LLT V6 with Mace Cams, headers, intake, etc and I noticed that the knock sensitivity values from Tuner X are the exact same as the stock values; shouldn't they be changed at least a bit? The Mace Cam has a sharper open/close so I would think that would create some additional "noise" in the valvetrain/engine. Ever since I installed the cams, it's developed a misfire on all cylinders. Checked and rechecked mechanical timing, walnut blasted the valves, ultrasonically cleaned injectors. One thing I did not do (but plan to) is relearn the crank position sensor. Do you think either the crank relearn or the knock sensitivity values would cause these misfires? Thanks in advance, man!
Crank relearn has to be done with new cams, I would stay there
Hey Kyle so my ls1 said it had 10* of spark knock up in the high end, so I took out 10 degrees of timing and it still had the 10 degrees of spark knock, would this desensitizing help? Could that be the problem?
If you haven't figured this out yet, it's possible you have a knock sensor code. In that case, it pulls the max value by default.
In the 4gen there is Mult vs rpm that looks very similar to the one on 3rd gen however you did not touched that ? You forgot ?
I was told that my knock sensors have been de-sensitized.....so look at HP Tuner software on my Dodge I see voltages.....0 to 5 volts is the range...so the question is ...lower voltage setting makes it more sensitive or high voltage???? Which is it??? Since it has been changed and I'm new to tuning I want to know???
Lower should be more sensitive I would think but see if you can find the specs on those sensors
Now please get the knock sensors to work with the Holley Dominator on a German motor for me.
Hey brother would you zero out all busy knock ECT, IAT and would you just leave them off for tuning purposes or just leave them off for good thanks again bro.
All burst can go away
Great Video, my false knock issue had me chasing my freaking tail for a bit..lol..wish you're video had been out back then so I didnt have to harass you as much as I did..😆
Edit: As a side note, my issue was my Cheap PS LT headers.
Even the expensive ones tend to create false knock
I have a lt4 blown Sierra and I can’t seem to get rid of kr around 1600-1900rpm even on e70.. we have reduced timing remarkable (starting to think maybe it’s lspi). A few guys just tell me to decrease my knock sensitivity with some arbitrary value. I literally am only running 8.5psi and not having IAT issues. Don’t understand what is going on here but I’m starting to think these l83’s hate pd blowers. Would you be willing to look at some logs?
So much misinformation here... peak power, or torque specifically is not always past knock. In high RPM you're generally not knock limited for MBT but that's not strictly true. You pointed to a lower load cell at low RPM discussing timing.... has nothing to do with RPM, but that lower loads result in slower burn and that's why you need more timing. You should aim for MBT in all areas but that is also a couple degrees away from induced knock.
You don't understand what MBT means in reference to these ECUs, but that is because there is misinformation out there attributed to one specific book. Have to be careful because talking about MBT can lead people to edit a table that actually has nothing to do with timing delivery under load.
@@GoatRopeGarage MBT has nothing to do with a specific ECU. It's a fundamental principle of engine calibration - Maximum brake torque.
@@billysmith4278 It does, please, go examine some stock calibrations in which you will actually see the high octane table exceed the MBT table, there is a lot more going on in the background than what you imply.
@@GoatRopeGarage you failed to comprehend the definition I gave you. You’re talking non-sense.
You fail to understand the application. The definition you're taking about doesn't apply. I've been trying to explain that to you. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm saying that it isn't how it applies here
Facebook sucks
Sorry, i had to stop watching about 1/3 the way through.
Pre-ignition and knock are 2x completely different things, they are not the same.
Knock is rapid uncontrolled ignition AFTER top dead centre, usually from too much timing. Pre-ignition is spontaneous combustion BEFORE top dead centre, usually from excessive air temps or glowing hot components/ carbon build up.
Both are handled the same and the results of the same things, uncontrolled cylinder temps usually due to pressure. To say they are completely separate things is pointless when the ecu treats them both as the same thing.
@@GoatRopeGarage most strategy's are set up to only sense ATDC, so knock happens ATDC.
To diagnose the cause of and prevent engine damage, the reason for pre-det or knock must be treated separately.
Got pre-det? Your engine probably needs a rebuild or to be decarbonised, probably running too much boost or too high compression for the fuel being used.
Got knock? Reduce timing, too lean of mixture, change fuel being used for boost/compression.
The two can be related with similar causes and symptoms. But the two types of uncontrolled combustion are different things.
@motabikeboy not when you’re relying on 2 sensors for 8 cylinders. They don’t take into account crank position. Frequency and amplitude, and the frequency is based on bore size regardless of if it is pre-ignition or knock.
@@GoatRopeGarage uhm, actually yes ECU's do take all of those factors you mentioned into account.
Factory ECU's also have all of those parameters programmed into them if using wideband sensors, Especially standalone ECU's.
Really nice 👌 😍💋 💝💖❤️
what about rich knock @ below 0.7 lambda :) ???