Up to 60% of our pops will DIE within the first decades of the game.... Tinto Responds!
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- čas přidán 18. 05. 2024
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#LordLambert #ParadoxTinto #EU5 - Hry
The difference between Forests and Woods is density
Yes. Density of the person who does not understand (sorry, Lambert :P ).
Can you be more specific like 5 trees in an area of 6m×6m is a forest and 5 trees in an area of 30m×30m is a wood?
@@matteorossi1172 If you're in an area with trees and can look up and see the sky through the canopy, you're in the woods, if you can't, you're in a forest. Forests are more densely packed. That's my understanding of it anyway.
@@CrazyJay1301 so i look up and a tree doesn't allow me to see the sky (even if they are like 6 trees) it's a forest, if i look up and the trees are either lower than 185cm or allow me to see the sky i'm therefore in a wood?
@@matteorossi1172 dont be pedantic, you know what they mean. Also it also includes density of ground flora as well. Historically in some regions the term forest can mean something more specific like a wooded hunting or preserve range.
When John of Luxemburg became the king of Bohemia(ruler at game start) the nobility made him sign a document wich banned him from raising troops/calling his subjects to war unless the Bohemian Crownlands (Bohemia, Moravia, Silesia) were invaded and those troops could only be used for repelling the invasion. In this case it makes sense for Bohemia to be independent from Luxemburg
In general, getting a "PU" wasn't an instant free vassal because the king still had to rule as king within the new country's laws, and the nobles were certainly not interested in being so reduced. Reducing a lesser partner into a vassal often look a lot of time and work
It would be very interesting if unions have mechanics to influence this. Rather than simply being able to integrate them over time if there are various stages of integration and obligations from each side. I.e one has to aid the other or had an opt out from aiding them etc and eventually the two countries can be unified. Could make for some interesting mechanics and relationships for sure.
The 40-60% of Europe's population dying from the Black Death also has some further implications I feel. Unlike in EU4 where the Native American population is effectively unaffected by diseases, here we might see something closer to real life where a sizable chunk of the population will die from them once European colonization starts happening.
In an earlier comment Johan said that there is a building that both requires and produces horses simultaniously. I think that's going to be how they simulate Importing horses while using the same recruiting mechanism as the elephants.
The fact that large parts of the world are going to face the Black Death disaster soon after the game starts (and losing up to 60% of all pops) is fantastic. It gives everyone an instant priority to focus on before they can begin expanding: Minimise the effect. Secondary priority: Take advantage of your rival's ineptitude in minimising the effect.
Could I if playing England, for example, close the ports, impose quarantines, and invest heavily in sanitation, to slow down the spread and death-rate? And then use my carefully sheltered manpower to wreck... I dunno... France?
And would it actually be a good idea to do that in the first place? The consequences of the Black Death in England empowered the middle class, allowing them to move about more and demand higher wages *because employers were so desperate*. So saving everyone might slow down democratic and economic reforms.
This setup is fascinating.
Sounds like a great way to be able to wreck the AI and everyone complains about how the game is so easy
Thank you for these videos. Right when I saw a news article about “tinto talks” I read the first one, then went straight to CZcams to find someone who knew more about paradox than I do. You were the first to pop up and I’ve watched every video since. The amount of time you take to make these videos is very much appreciated.
There's only one thing that scares me about the game happenning pre Black Death.
Paradox AI is actually pretty good, it looks fucking stupid sometimes but that's because Paradox games are pretty complex.
The thing is, the player will likely be able to tide through the Black Death and reconstructc much, much better than the AI. At least theoretically, hopefully they find the right balance
I think thats fixable by having different weights for players and AI on the black death events, even if the AI makes all the worst choices you can lessen the punishment for it
@@humbertoseghetto5218 Ah that's not a bad idea at all
IIrc Johan said they have additional ai programmers for project Caesar, so I'm hoping they'll be capable.
Hopefully since it's a mechanic in the game from it's conception it should be relatively scripted and something that game can be balanced around.
"Allow me to speculate". That's why we are here, wild speculation (that somehow turns out to be right most of the time).
The Peruzzi and Bardi families were the banking families you were thinking of.
I said this before; but I am worried about the “psychological” implications so to speak of the game starting just before the Black Death. Imagine if 10 years after starting Stellaris EVERY SINGLE GAME 40-60% of your pops died.
A short period of a good workforce/economy/army at the start of the game makes it more likely to do something crazy the first year or so. It's like in eu4 if you get a 10 year buff of 40% morale. Of COURSE your going to utilize it before it goes away. _How_ people are going to do that will be interesting though.
@@valrossenOliverEvery other nation also has that buff. You aren't any stronger or weaker relative to your neighbors before or after the plague (unless they try to model how it struck some regions harder than others). There is no buff, and it frankly would be a waste to go to war. It makes more sense to use those few years of a good economy to build up the infrastructure that will be much more expensive when half your economy is gone.
It went in waves it wasn't all at a single moment too. Hopefully it is modelled like that so when you start seeing it slowly coming closer through the year you know to get ready.
Nah no problem in anbennar a Literal god dies in the beginning and his blood rains on the World causing Trauma and destability. The Players can handle a wordly disease.
@@jalleonothing5946 How do you "get ready" in terms of mechanics? It's like saying you should "get ready" in EU4 to have 40-60% of your development poof in the space of 4 years about a decade into the game... Actually no, that undersells the issue. It's more like 40-60% of your development and then a +100% dev cost modifier slowly decaying over a century at 1% per year.
My hometown won't exist for 500 years so I feel you.
That's why I liked playing After the End in CK2, got to see even small US towns
I understand the logic of there being "no subjects in a PU" - when Austria and Hungary came into union, the Kingdom of Hungary was not officially made into a vassal state of the Archduchy of Austria, they were both sovereign states that were in union - however, in practical terms, there was one nation which was the leader in the relationship, the terminology of senior partner and junior partner used in EU4 is very appropriate.
I agree but I think organisations can and should allow for some level of variation within this and make eventual integration more interesting.
However I think in a way it has an advantage of making PUs less vulernable to being broken up my supporting independence. If one country isn't really a subject of another than it makes it harder to make them disloyal since they aren't exactly needing to be loyal in the first place. You could certainly have relations and opinion of the ruler in that country affect their diplomacy towards you. Maybe if relations are good they'll support you and if not then they're less likely to do so.
36:20 interstate organisation?
I feel like this is the best alternative, I’m not fussed, but I do have a personal quibble about using nations too loosely, nations are groups of people, we then sue the word nation ‘wrongly’ to describe nation states. When we should always use the word state , and only sometimes nations because not all states are nation states.
Also. I think Henry VIII could comprehend the concept of the state, and relations between the papal state and the English state, but an ‘international’ system, I don’t think so. Where international tends to imply non state entities like forums, the un, NGOs sitting at the same table.
Edit: interstate association works even better I like that alot. Still if IO stays that’s fine.
3:10 z ow d - indeed is how you pronounce Zuid.
"Luckily, humans tend to enjoy making babies"
-Johan, 2024
citation needed
*Enjoyed...until the last few decades
Overall really great changes with the aditions of woods/forrests in the Veluwe area of the Netherlands, and the change to Middle-Franconian. I however do personally think "Lower Saxon" would be better than "Westphalian". At least when it comes to the cultural-languistic usage in the eastern Netherlands. In Drenthe and Overijssel (and maybe also parts of Gelderland) they even today refer to their dialects (Drenths, Twents, Sallands, Achterhoeks, etc.) as "Nedersakische dialecten".
It's like that in the southern Netherlands (Brabant and Limburg) as well. They still call their overall mentality and food culture as "Burgundian".
Paradox Tinto is in Sitges? I went there when i was 11 to visit barcelona, i'd love to see an easter egg of the studio in that place, it's a very nice town.
"All Paradox games worth talking about..." - great shadethrowing there, Lambert!😂
😉
I wonder if we could get a color gradient population density map that only takes the locations that can currently be seen into effect
Fantastic video Lambert! Thank you for putting in the time for these :)
I am one of the people who has the wrong opinion about the idea of changing mapmodes depending on zoom level. I'm glad it looks as though we will both be able to enjoiy our own heresy in the super secret game! :P
Out of curiosity on the forest vs woods thing, both terrain types exist in EU4 today. What did you think of the discrepency between them in EU4, or did you not give it much thought before hearing of it in Europa Unicaeseralis 5?
38:34 I don't know whether that was a jab at not liking that way of spelling flavor, but it's correctly spelt both ways. "Flavor" and "Flavour" is correct.
Yeah it was just a jab :) I am aware the Americans spell it wro... differently.
Couto Mixto was a sort of union of 3 villages right on the border between Portugal and Galicia - a complex set of feudal obligations and relationships and whatnot had resulted in them not actually being the feudal subjects of anyone and therefore their own independent state.
You pronounced zuid correctly. Props, non Dutch speakers haves issues with our joint vowel sounds (ui, eu, ui, au, auw, ou, ouw).
Before you (understandably) say you hate it, it helps avoid needing a the German umlaut (ä, ö, ü) which is something at least.
I feel you, as a Korean I have never seen a westerner pronounce our 'eo's and 'eu's correctly.
Very happy to hear that zoom to terrain political map mode like imperator is potentially an option. I like it and the total war games have it as well so I’m glad the devs will consider it
5:58 medicaments got a second province, even more medicaments for you Lambert
Hell yeah! Love me some medicaments!
Got any more of that navigabbagool Carm'?
I think it would probably be smart to have at least some split for goods like spices or fruit. It doesn't need to be super atomized but maybe have spices/fruit and exotic spices/fruit.
For fruit, I think Citrus/Fruit would be best, as not all fruit is good for keeping your sailors from getting scurvy
@@Lord_Lambert Agreed, that makes sense.
Re: Indian and China throwing off pop graphs, meiou and taxes had the clever idea to add exponential/logarithmic gradients, so you can still distinguish European densities while appreciating the sillyness of Asia.
38:33 he did not spell flavor wrong
I wonder how variable they will make the black death itself; would it be possible in some runs for it only to kill off say 25% of the population, or in others 70%? Will the effect be more or less severe in different regions of the world with each new playthough? Will further outbreaks of the plague through the following centuries be somewhat predictable or not?
Making it reasonably variable would be great for replayability but I can also see it being felt as unfair or arbitrary and frustrating.
I know i keep saying this but tall is gonna be so much fun in this game
I 100% agree
I really hope so!
I think playable landless countries are only as crack pot at everyone thinking/knowing that PC was EUV after Tinto talks 1. That said in vanilla you probably wont be able to like how in CK3 you currently can't play as the papacy or venice due to gameplay limitations, though id imagine there will be a mod, or dlc/free update that allows it.
i really would like to know how the new world will look and how will colonization will work
maybe they could split spices up into herbs and spices
of course we can play landless entities. I thought that was clearly stated since TT3 or so.
This is _the only_ thing I'm not excited for in EU5. I don't want to play as a sanitary authority. And plagues in CK3 are lame. It will be extremely annoying for nation-building and long-term grand strategy and world development, to have a giant plague early in the game that massively and randomly alters the population of the world compared to the start. For this reason alone, I think the 1356 start-date would have been way better.
I believe there is a big risk of the 1337 start-date flopping for this reason. People will not be excited for the coming Black Death. If that happens, though, there is a chance of salvation for the game, as the devs will be able to very early on identify this problem and work on moving the start-date to 1356 (when the black death has already passed and new outbursts of epidemic were more localized).
@@ThomasBarth-gr1sz yeah thats my concern with the date too, there are plenty of runs that require a bit of luck or some rng and you come to accept those unique situations with those certain runs, but basically here theres an added possible run killer added to all the other possible rng/luck based run killers for basically all of eurasia.
As Ukrainian I really afraid how far devs really ready to go with feedback in map changes, while ruzzians player are ьгср simply more then Ukrainian.
Russia💪😎
You pronounced Zuid Holland pretty well.
Are landless countries and IOs how we represent the Dutch, the Swiss, and other (con)federal states? You have a landless county which owns the IO, and members states which are part of it. It probably wouldn't be the best gameplay loop, but it kinda works well and is probably more representative of reality.
The critique on desert temperature seems a bit ignorant. Deserts can get super cold, especially at night. Sure, most deserts are in typically hot regions, but them all being hot isn't necessarily true.
Can someone explain the "lower Franconian" thing? Does that mean Dutch was at this time still so similar to Franconian (a culture that is today in the North of Bavaria)? Or is that just the language or what?
So, "Franconian" may very well start of as "Upper Franconian" in the game. By this time there'd probably still be a somewhat single unified-ish culture in the area. My guess is that through some events this culture will end up falling apart into Dutch, Flemish and Rhenish. This could already be as early as the Black Death, or, once a unified force takes over a large chunk of the Low Countries. The Dutch-Flemish split might even end up not happening if the Netherlands are able to take and hold onto the area, something they failed to do historically.
I much prefer localised names over english names for provinces and locations.
Idk if I am a fan if start every campain with what is effectively a doom spiral, just to rly start playing the game after a few years... why include the black death. Gameplay wise it sounds just enoying.
if you dont like it, you could always start after it. I feel like most players would enjoy the challenge
@mqegg you can only "start after it" after someone makes a start date mod.
@@Lord_Lambert Oh I see, will you not be able to choose your start date in eu5? NGL I think I'm tripping lol
Black Plague confirmed?
It was already confirmed, I’m exited when they confirm old world disease in the new world during colonial period
It was confirmed when the start date was revealed
man I hope Institutions work very different from EU4. They were only tolerable outside of Western Europe because you could dev an institution into existence, but if you can't do something analogous in EU5 then it's gonna be like having to westernize every 50 years if you decide you want to play in india
No you won’t be able to play landless countries. Pretty sure that was already confirmed. Only Countries are playable entities yes, but the country also must own land. Just make a VEN diagram of is country and own land and everything that sits in both is playable.
No they have confirmed there are landless tags you can play as. Typically companies.
@@jalleonothing5946 they confirmed there are landless tags yes, but that you can play as ? I need the source on this one.
@@Shayrin2 Johan has said it before. I suggest reading the replies directly one of them does ask about trading companies and they dont have land and they can be created in specific situations it seems.
@@jalleonothing5946 created sure, but played ? That's something else. I have read (and I even write summaries of) every single dev answer in every Tinto related forum post so that's why I don't recall the ability to play landless to be there. If I missed such an important feature I really failed in my task lmao !
@@jalleonothing5946 looking up "landless" by "Johan" (Pdx forum search) the only result pertinent is that banking countries are landless. There is no (or at least I really can't find it) any confirmation by Johan that landless countries will be PLAYABLE. And it would make no sense anyway for them to be, the game is very clearly not meant for that.
Tho do not that I am not opposed to it, just that what would you even do anyway ? If the loop is just get some land and start playing normally, there's no reason for them to even bother with it.
I hope institutions work differently than they do in eu4. Its definitely one of the wackier mechanics that doesn't really make sense in a lot of circumstances.
I dont want characters like rome, to me was just annoying manage that shit
In the boardgame Imperial (2006) you play as international investors, buying bonds in European powers at the time of WW1. Each country is controlled by the player who owns the most of its bonds. This means that you as a player can at times be "landless", controlling no countries while still being invested in certain countries doing well as to increase the value of your bonds. It's a pretty cool and dynamic system, creating shifting alliances and whatnot.