Engine Corrosion Tips From RAM Aircraft
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- čas přidán 25. 02. 2017
- With flying activity declining, many aircraft sit idle for months at a time. This causes serious corrosion issues inside the engines and in this AVweb video, RAM Aircraft of Waco, Texas, tells us how to avoid these problems.
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Fly it often is good advice but not always possible for a single owner plane. I built a dehydrator for my C150 after seeing effects of corrosion during a top end overhaul. My homemade dehydrator has a "purge" cycle. After a flight and connecting the dehydrator it pumps outside air into the engine to purge out the water vapor and crankcase fumes for half an hour as the engine cools. After that the dehydrator automatically begins a closed loop cycling of crankcase air through a desiccant. The humidity is maintained below 20%. Desiccant plugs are put in the exhaust after flight as well. The desiccant lasts for months and is then recharged. I have removed valve covers on an O-235 for valve adjustment on a flight school plane that flew several times a day in good weather and found a lot of water that would condense on the inside. Amazing how much water is in a crankcase after each flight no matter how long the flight is. Sitting long term with that water inside is damaging for sure. I would be interested in any research showing the long term benefits of keeping moisture out of the crankcase.
I think the credit for this quote goes to RAM (and I couldn't agree more).
"Your engine won't make TBO if you don't fly it!"
Great video, I learned a lot. Moral of the story is fly weekly!
Not all environments are the same. I live in the desert and use CamGuard in my oil. As a result, corrosion issues are minimized, and oil analysis proves it. Each owner/operator has to decide what needs to be done based on his home base environment.
Great advice! A little engine-knowledge goes a long way.
Same engine, stored for 15 years and never opened the engine for inspection and it started up like a solid
Awesome!!! I love that the advice is basically to fly as often as possible!!
I’m an A&P and I’ll tell you right now the quickest way to fuck your plane up other than crashing, is letting it sit
And what’s worse, is everyone knows that one plane tied down outside at the airport for years and years, most of those planes will never ever fly again because it would be too expensive to get them flying so they get scrapped
Beautiful machines just tossed to the side because of neglect
Thank you! Very informative video.
Very well done. Great info ty.
I live in waco didn't know this was here. Wonder if they do tours lol I love things like this.
When we bought our Skyhawk (O-300) back in the day, the owner, a former corporate pilot and A&P/AI, did his own annuals. He had lost his medical. So every year, he'd do a full annual, with 0.3 or so of engine running. We bought it and had an overhaul done prior to flying it. The cylinders needed boring, a few parts needed to be replaced (not the cams or lifters!) and the oil pan was nearly corroded through, from the water in the bottom of it. I personally flew it 125 hours the first year, my partner a like amount. It's now at some flight school, and likely had reached book TBO.
Fly the things. I sold it because I wasn't flying enough to keep it healthy.
Good information.
A very interesting video, with well-explained consequences of letting things sit around... I guess the moral of the story really is to go fly once a week :o)
Just another excuse to go flying haha
That's a good argument for flying.
Ground runs of 10-15 minutes may be bad. It may create the coffee pot effect which puts moisture all in your case. I have found if you only run the engine for 2-3 minutes you won’t get this. If you can’t fly your plane for whatever reason, I think this will keep the oil film on bottom end parts. Also change the oil as recommended on calendar time. Of course, the best thing is to go fly....
Great video, but what about the barrel cut in half at 2:34. If that cylinder rust was generated in the field the cut away portion of that barrel should be rust free.
Think that's just been sitting around a long time as a cut away, bit extreme.
Buy or build an engine dehydrator and hook it up after flying.
If the industry sees a problem this prevalent, preventive measures and products should be available. Where were these engines/aircraft stored, In a hanger or tied down outside? That one split cylinder looks like it was immersed. Was it? I sprayed a fine mist of Automatic Transmission Fluid into my cylinders on an engine which I knew was going to sit for a time. There are only a certain amount of failures which can be blamed on the users before the product is deemed not worthy for the environment it was designed to be used in. I dislike the almost scare tactics which can be perceived when showing what’s the worst that can happen. This one we got from the bottom of a lake…just look at the corrosion.
going to need to do some super magnets in the oil pan to keep any iron or steel fragments collected and out of the oil system and out of the cylinders. i wonder if the owner is planning on extended storage if there is instructions on filling the crankcase above the cam and lifters or even higher. so a mechanic will have to remove any excess oil prior to engine start. i would think that magnets in the fuel filters before the pumps would help also.
Wp: No. The manufacturers have detailed instructions for extended layup and preservation.
How can I get a Ram shirt like that?. Also thanks for the lesson.
Might as well be 1955. Nothing new here. "Fly your plane"
Those lifters are what $45,000 looks like.
i wonder if vehicles also suffer. especially with the lighter oils now used like 5-30?
I’ve always used the piston aviation maintenance industry as a yardstick for my personal diy maintenance on my car. 50h oil changes, specific inspections, up to temp as often as possible, etc. My car is 08, 330000 kms and counting and no signs of slowing down, all while in the rust belt. Can’t convince myself that it’s a coincidence!
This is scary... I definitely need to fly my bird more.
Why is lifter/cam spalling so common on aircraft engine but not automotive engines? I've worked on many classic car engines that sit for months on end and they never have damage like what I see in conti or lycomings.
There are stories of flat tappet cams being wiped out all the time on V-8s and even VW engines. They blame lack of ZDDP in modern oils(and that's logical) but it still randomly happens with flat tappet lifters and cam lobes.
Perhaps the engines need to use better corrosion inhibitors in the oil to reduce corrosion.
Or poor design of oil circulation as in camshaft corrosion wear.
Pulling the engine over every week might help solve the problem, so long as the cams rotate through a bath of oil, rather than it all drains away.
Unfortunately, the camshafts are above the sump oil level due the way the crankcases are designed. On the Lycoming engines the camshaft is above the crankshaft, and on Continental's the camshaft is below the crankshaft which eventually drains the oil way from the camshaft after engine shutdown. Turning the engine over once a week might limit corrosion on the crankcase bearings but will do little on camshafts. So the lack of engine use can have it's own problems.
Yes, but if the engine had been designed with troughs below the cams, then turning over the engine the cams would get lubed. Perhaps cranking the engine to get the oil pressure up is better than nothing.
Troughs below the cams would lead to sludge traps so it wouldn't be a good idea to have the old oil building up there. If you have to go to the trouble to crank the engine you may as well fly the aircraft.
That's true, might end up with the hollow crank shaft problems Lycoming had.
Magnets!
On your sump and filter.
Run those engine as fast as you can to TBO so we can rebuild them. Thats what I got out of this video.
Use Amsoil synthetic Oil. Simply the best.
I have used Amsoil from 1980 . This stuff is unreal , I like the HP and fuel economy I got and zero engine problems . I became a dealer .
Synthetic oil is not compatible with leaded fuel. Mobil already bought a bunch of engines and a couple of aircraft trying it.
AC: Amsoil is not approved for aviation use. Full synthetic oils are not able to absorb the lead that ends up in the oil, nor the high acid levels. Man other factors. Amsoil is not designed for aviation use.
@@onfin3al6 99% of amsoil is hype. "like the hp"? What a stupid joke!
I fly my 150 nearly every day 🤫🤔
So why aren't crank case gases fed back into the manifold like cars. Is there just too much blow by to cope being air cooled engines, or the risk of recirculating acids that perhaps don't exist as much in car fuels. Often see an egg cup full of water expelled from the vent. Surely a private owner could fit a silica gel plug in the vent.
FB: Aircraft crankcases are vented overboard. They are not subject to EPA recirculation requirements.
Perhaps if they were , there would be less corrosion.
Perhaps the altitude change would create problems.
@@flybobbie1449 How would recirculating exhaust gases decrease corrosion causing compounds in the engine? How does altitude change cause corrosion? Just silliness.
@@KB4QAA I had to think back for a moment there. If the gases were drawn through the engine and burnt as in cars perhaps the condensation that corrodes cam shafts could be reduced. Corrosion doesn't happen in over head cam engine cars. It happens in typical light aircraft engines probably due to the fact top of engine is cooler. Acid corrosion caused a spate of crankshaft cracks some years ago.
Altitude change nothing to do with corrosion, questioning if lower crank pressure is an advantage to maintain power as the aircraft climbs. As not reliant and "sucking air out" via the manifold inlet, as in cars.
@@flybobbie1449 Moisture in blow-by gases is eliminated largely by venting overboard via large crankcase vent tube. No need to brain-storm some other logic. The major cause of cam corrosion is aircraft sitting unused for weeks/months.
Use an engine dehydrator!
The thousands plane owners have to spend on overhauls and still they suck a valve or burn a piston after a very short period of time , With all the very precise things involved in an overhaul yet a car engine will last decades with little to nearly no repairs . That's all BS . Example . I needed a landing light . A mechanic at the airport had one he would sell me for only 40 bucks . I went to a napa store and got one for ten . new or overhauled plane motors are junk .
Well, a very uninformed opinion.
1:45 Sex & Gin? Niiice Shop ;)
An hour flying a week is really only 52 hours a year it’s not that much on your personal 172 or 140/180 it’s often less than 5000$ a year